Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Khalsa
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Khalsa » 20 Jul 2015 06:02

Philip wrote:Is this a delayed-action report to one earlier or a new one? Don't shoot the postman! :rotfl:
India to Develop New Tank, Use Russian Armata as Prototype
Military & Intelligence
21:59 30.06.2015

India confirmed its plans to design and build a new main battle tank (MBT) that is slated to replace tits Soviet-made T-72 tanks, which are used by the Indian Army, Gazeta.ru reported.

Soviet and Russian military hardware makes up around 40 percent of all hardware in the Indian ground forces. The proportion is even higher in India's Air Force (80 percent), and Navy (75 percent). In total, there are around 600 T-55 tanks, almost 2,000 T-72M1 and 640 T-90C tanks.

Back on the Scene: Russia Brings Tanks Back in Fashion
The new tank the Indian Army plans to design and manufacture is known as the Future Ready Combat Vehicle (FRCV).

The new generation MBT will form a base platform for other armored vehicles, similar to the Russian-made Armata platform. The Indian army wants to use the platform for as many as 11 different tracked vehicles, including light tracked, wheeled, bridge layer and trawl tanks, self-propelled howitzers, air defense guns, artillery observation posts and engineering reconnaissance vehicles, and armored ambulances, the Diplomat said.

India might likely use Russia's new Armata tank as a prototype for its own armored vehicle, Gazeta.ru reported. Earlier this month, defense expert Samir Patil from India's Gateway House analytical center said his country was willing to buy the Armata platform or some of its elements for future development of their own tank.

India Mulls Buying Russia’s Armata to Develop Its Own Future Infantry Tank
"I think India would like to purchase such a combat platform for its armed forces," Samir Patil said.

What makes the Armata tank stand out from its domestic and foreign counterparts is that the crew is securely enclosed in a multi-layer armored capsule separated from the ammunition container. The vehicle is fully computerized and only needs three servicemen to operate it.

The tank has an unmanned, remotely controlled turret, digitally controlled by a crew-member located in a separate compartment. It is believed that this would eventually lead to the development of a fully robotic tank.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/2015063 ... z3f5GGTTRF


PS:Are these tank inventory figs. accurate? 600+ T-55s still in service? No mention of the 120+ A MK-1s either. Is there an IA inventory/proposed force plan available?


I hardly believe its a reliable source plus the fact that it ommits Mention of Arjun.
Just random click bait ...

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby SaiK » 20 Jul 2015 09:56

sometimes it is better to shoot the mailman just for fun! ;)

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Austin » 20 Jul 2015 13:13

ISIS using Kornet against Iraqi M1A1M Abrams

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1392878.html

Iraqi forces using Kornet against ISIS targets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU8QBHmXcmk

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 20 Jul 2015 19:23

The Postman is equipped with the latest Natasha ERA/armour,not like the M-1s!

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Sid » 20 Jul 2015 20:03

Khalsa wrote:
Philip wrote:Is this a delayed-action report to one earlier or a new one? Don't shoot the postman! :rotfl:

PS:Are these tank inventory figs. accurate? 600+ T-55s still in service? No mention of the 120+ A MK-1s either. Is there an IA inventory/proposed force plan available?


I hardly believe its a reliable source plus the fact that it ommits Mention of Arjun.
Just random click bait ...


Can't comment on numbers but T-55s are still active in IA. Got upgraded with some Israeli maal (comm/vision). Firepower/protection is still the same.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby d_berwal » 20 Jul 2015 20:59

@ Sid

T-55 are active in IA is a know fact.

Question to you :

Q1) Is there any active regt. of (100%)T-55 in IA?

Q2) Is it active as in the role of MBT? or other role?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Sid » 20 Jul 2015 21:41

^^yes to your first question, not clear on the second one. Not sure how IA intend to use it (of course not in front line units), but if you are thinking of auxiliary duties like mine-plow then no.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Indranil » 20 Jul 2015 21:50

Philip wrote:The Postman is equipped with the latest Natasha ERA/armour,not like the M-1s!

Good one! :wink:

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby d_berwal » 20 Jul 2015 21:52

@ Sid

Which IA Armored regt. is 100% T-55 can you name? or even 20%? or 10%?

There is NO IA Armored regt. of T-55 as of today.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Khalsa » 21 Jul 2015 01:21

I believe most the battle worthy T55s have been handed over to Engineering Regiments + plus few had their gun removed and created into fast moving operation command post for exercises only (not real battle scenrio)

I remember seeing both in pictures during exercises pictures.

AFAIK the two T55 regts in RAJ switched to Arjun Mk1.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Sid » 21 Jul 2015 01:42

d_berwal wrote:@ Sid

Which IA Armored regt. is 100% T-55 can you name? or even 20%? or 10%?

There is NO IA Armored regt. of T-55 as of today.


Ok... if you are so sure you should have said so in your first post.

No need to hyperventilate, I believe you.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby d_berwal » 21 Jul 2015 20:55

@ Sid
no point responding to you!

@ Khalsa
where did you get the T-55 command post idea from?

IA used BMP-II based command post vehicles from Regt. to up the chain of command

T-55 even the one given to Engnrs are being replaced by T-72 based Troll and T-72 based FWMP with mine plough

what ever T-55 based troll remain in IA are being replaced by T-72 based one either troll or FWMP with plough

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Sid » 21 Jul 2015 21:56

@d_berwal

Since your tone is a little bit condescending, let me ask you a very straight question.

Whats the source of your information?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Karan M » 21 Jul 2015 22:29

Project Gulmohar was the program to upgrade the T-55s at IA BRD. Much like the OFB, the BRD had a lot of trouble and the project ended up mostly being limited in scope to overhauls and limited upgrades.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby vaibhav.n » 21 Jul 2015 23:02

Karan,

Wasn't T-55 Gulmohar upgrade the one which had to be scaled down because of sanctions on Yugoslavia or some other country?

Edit: My bad....

“Project Gulmohar has reached fructification as the workshop has completed the overhaul of its last T-55,” said Commandant Brig N K Dutta. “Project Gulmohar was started in 1987 with technical help from Poland. It was inaugurated by the then defence minister K C Pant,” said Dutta.


http://www.thepunekar.com/t-55-tanks-overhauled-in-khadki/2008/01/

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby vaibhav.n » 21 Jul 2015 23:15

d_berwal wrote:T-55 even the one given to Engnrs are being replaced by T-72 based Troll and T-72 based FWMP with mine plough

what ever T-55 based troll remain in IA are being replaced by T-72 based one either troll or FWMP with plough


Berwal Sahib,

Russian tanks Troll and the rest Trawl..... :mrgreen:

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby vaibhav.n » 21 Jul 2015 23:42

Armoured Engineer Regiments use a Full Width Mine Plough to clear the entire width of the track and mark it.

Image


Armoured Regiments on the other hand use a lighter Track Width Mine Plough to clear only the tracks which the rest of the tanks follow.

Image



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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Khalsa » 22 Jul 2015 04:14

d_berwal wrote:@ Sid
no point responding to you!

@ Khalsa
where did you get the T-55 command post idea from?
IA used BMP-II based command post vehicles from Regt. to up the chain of command
T-55 even the one given to Engnrs are being replaced by T-72 based Troll and T-72 based FWMP with mine plough
what ever T-55 based troll remain in IA are being replaced by T-72 based one either troll or FWMP with plough


Where did the idea come from ?

Why the heck should I tell you that ? your tone is indeed condescending to me and the others.
Learn to speak bravely instead of sharpely ...

Do you think the IA logs all their ideas with their authors with me... ?

I have seen a T55 missing its fun gun portion. replaced with a large glass dome working its way with the armoured columns.
I can't remember what year it was but must be more than 2010 atleast.

And unless you don't have the QM ORBAT list on hand... don't just challenge for sake of challenging.
Back it up Observations...

prfftt now

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Hobbes » 22 Jul 2015 05:47

Khalsa wrote:
d_berwal wrote:@ Sid
no point responding to you!

@ Khalsa
where did you get the T-55 command post idea from?
IA used BMP-II based command post vehicles from Regt. to up the chain of command
T-55 even the one given to Engnrs are being replaced by T-72 based Troll and T-72 based FWMP with mine plough
what ever T-55 based troll remain in IA are being replaced by T-72 based one either troll or FWMP with plough


Where did the idea come from ?

Why the heck should I tell you that ? your tone is indeed condescending to me and the others.
Learn to speak bravely instead of sharpely ...

Do you think the IA logs all their ideas with their authors with me... ?

I have seen a T55 missing its fun gun portion. replaced with a large glass dome working its way with the armoured columns.
I can't remember what year it was but must be more than 2010 atleast.

And unless you don't have the QM ORBAT list on hand... don't just challenge for sake of challenging.
Back it up Observations...

prfftt now


:rotfl:

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby rkhanna » 22 Jul 2015 09:54

The Sources is highly questionable but ..

Amarta is now 2.5x over budget... putting it at US$15m a pop??
http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-can-barely-afford-its-new-tank-2015-7?IR=T

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Prasad » 22 Jul 2015 13:26

Singhaji,
your idea for a dedicated ATGM carrier based on a tank platform - http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/this-i ... 1719138825

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby member_22539 » 22 Jul 2015 14:12

From the above linked website

Image

Is this a missile carrying fighting vehicle or is this just for the purpose of the test?

Anyway, nice missile and vehicle. I guess the Nag works similarly, but at a much bigger scale.

By the way, the missile is DAGR

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Singha » 22 Jul 2015 15:00

beautiful mockup of the merkava turret. fooled me until i looked at the frontal hull. we should be converting BMP2s into this mode, with a hellacious number of Nags produced.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Surya » 22 Jul 2015 17:21

they never throw anything away

we always have a study which finds it uneconomical to do any changes and start down the chain of a new request

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Singha » 22 Jul 2015 20:16

yes even the sherman tanks were uparmoured i and used for quite while.

I think this is a sherman tank with a bolted on rocket launching system...must be rotating also!
our IA never got beyond a few dozen grad systems. note the crudeness of the metal tubes and welds...done at village welding shop level...but it delivered huge rockets and must have saved them on occasions...it would never pass the famous winter, summer and hi-alt trials here.

Image

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Singha » 22 Jul 2015 20:26

the US army used smaller rockets like this in WW2 itself.
we could have made use of 100s of retired BMPs and Vijayanta/T55 , removed the heavy turret and main gun and mounted a scary number of grad and pinaka rockets cheaply instead of the limited nos of gold plated fully imported by BEML Tatra vehicles we have currently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb-XsGfEZzc

perfect is the mortal enemy of "good enough and effective"

people do get creative and practical when national survival is at stake like IDF and in WW2

TSPA with its dara adam khel Tier2 OFB of sorts probably has more 122mm rocket launchers than india! :rotfl:

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Prasad » 22 Jul 2015 23:36

Even now, strip the turrets from the T55, call the local welder mechanic fellow and jiffy up some rig to hold 10 Nags per. Send one T55 per squadron of MBTs. Deal done. Hang back, pick your target, let loose.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby d_berwal » 25 Jul 2015 21:34

Khalsa wrote:
Why the heck should I tell you that ? your tone is indeed condescending to me and the others.
Learn to speak bravely instead of sharpely ...

Do you think the IA logs all their ideas with their authors with me... ?

I have seen a T55 missing its fun gun portion. replaced with a large glass dome working its way with the armoured columns.
I can't remember what year it was but must be more than 2010 atleast.

And unless you don't have the QM ORBAT list on hand... don't just challenge for sake of challenging.
Back it up Observations...

prfftt now


sirji

[link]http://www.sainiksamachar.nic.in/englisharchives/2011/jun01-11/Images/14-15(iv).jpg[/link]

Is this the LARGE GLASS DOME working its way with armored columns you saw?

its form your own post on BFR on 22 Aug 2011

You have deliberately pounced on me on glass dome theory of your, when actually its a glass window (where the gun meets the turret)

does the forum rules say that a members tone can't be condescending? ( well the fault lies in converting my hindi thoughts to english and my english vocab is poor, i had to actually see a dictionary for understanding "condescending")

what did i post that APP ko itne MIRCHI lagi?

you can equate a glass window to large glass dome, and i can't ask you where you got this idea form?

Khalsa ji i am not challenging you or anyone, i am putting my thoughts on what is publically available information and you are a party to such information.

I never post/reply just for the sake of it like many-many others.

What is your definition of command post AFV? (hope its not a glass dome)

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Khalsa » 27 Jul 2015 13:43

d_berwal

no jee please. Just Khalsa is fine.
yes that is the T-55 i was talking about. Fine Job searching for it.

Lets move on... dome was incorrect use of the word. Glass Pane is more like it.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Ankit Desai » 04 Aug 2015 18:49

Army's RFI for tanks not in conflict with DRDO project: Parrikar

Parrikar, in a written reply to Rajya Sabha, said the proposals invited by the army are "for a design competition to identify innovative design options which will form the base for a combat vehicle platform".


These platforms (FRCVs) are to meet the futuristic requirements of the services beyond 2027 and are not in conflict with the current MBT Arjun Programme and its future orders,
" he clarified.

Out of total indented quantity of 124 numbers, 122 MBT Arjun Mk-I have been produced and inducted into army," he said.

"Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) for quantity 118 for MBT Arjun Mk-II is in place,"
the minister added.

-Ankit

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby d_berwal » 04 Aug 2015 21:16

T-72 Drift Enjoy :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik7ZM5SVBrU

Preparations for the annual Tank Biathlon World Championship, held at the Alabino range near Moscow, were interrupted by a spectacular incident as Kuwaiti crew driving a T-72 tank couldn't handle a sharp turn and flipped over their armored vehicle. Fortunately, the crew was unharmed and the tank itself didn't receive any serious damage.
http://sputniknews.com/videoclub/201508 ... 82110.html

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Khalsa » 05 Aug 2015 02:47

d_berwal wrote:T-72 Drift Enjoy :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik7ZM5SVBrU

Preparations for the annual Tank Biathlon World Championship, held at the Alabino range near Moscow, were interrupted by a spectacular incident as Kuwaiti crew driving a T-72 tank couldn't handle a sharp turn and flipped over their armored vehicle. Fortunately, the crew was unharmed and the tank itself didn't receive any serious damage.
http://sputniknews.com/videoclub/201508 ... 82110.html


cant speak Russian but I am sure he said " I am so gonna upload this to youtube"
Great find.... fantastic

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby srai » 05 Aug 2015 03:19



Ofcourse, it is in conflict. India is basically forfeiting its hard-earned indigenous MBT design capability. In another 15-years time, it will be like the Marut.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Vivek K » 05 Aug 2015 05:13

Makes a farce out of Make in India!

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Vivek K » 05 Aug 2015 05:15

Mere fact that only 124 Arjuns were built/bought and the loser T-90 is order in the thousands, is a celebration of our corruption and gleeful charge towards dependence and ultimate loss of sovereignity in the true sense.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby srin » 05 Aug 2015 09:12

srai wrote:


Ofcourse, it is in conflict. India is basically forfeiting its hard-earned indigenous MBT design capability. In another 15-years time, it will be like the Marut.


Exactly. The response is completely silent regarding FMBT, which should be the primary point of contention.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby uddu » 05 Aug 2015 09:42


This video is from Tank biathlon 2014.
One thing that can be observed is that T-72's cannot shoot on the move. They have to either stop completely and move at very low speeds of <5km / hour to fire at the target. Even then it's missing the target. Not a single hit. The Russians who are experts in this tank can get a single hit probably because they really stopped and fired. All this on a surface which is almost flat. The acceleration of T-72 seems more similar to a person with Asthma trying to run.
The Chinese are far more confident with their tank and can fire at static targets while moving at <15 km /hr and still hit the target.
Dont understand how the light weight T-72 which forms a large portion of our arsenal is going to face the enemy except run around without getting a single shot correctly. Their goes the highly maneuverable argument of the T lobby. Its a death trap with no benefit. All the T-72's need to be replaced immediately with Arjun MK-II. After watching the video it do seem that the Chinese tanks with Pakistan is a serious challenge against the T series. If they make an armored thrust we are really helpless except for the few Arjun MK-1 which we have fielded.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby P Chitkara » 05 Aug 2015 10:44

Today's TOI report says army doesn't want the MKII - saw it in the print edition. Not sure if this is a fact or twisted fact. BTW, what is the latest with the MKII along with its prospects of getting into the army? Quick Googling doesn't seem to give any updates post Feb, this year.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Thakur_B » 09 Aug 2015 12:44


Philip
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 10 Aug 2015 09:35

Tx Thakur.If the upgrade could also incorporate a few ATGMs as well,it would be even more capable. The IA should let the Indian corp. sector to take the existing platform and give them free rein to improve upon the listed improvements.


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