Defexpo 2006
What will pvt participation do if the IA refuses to accept the Arjun on more insidious issues? If there are even hints are a firm commitment to induct the Arjun then it makes sense for pvt sector, else why should it take on all the risk?SaiK wrote:private participation should make the arjun-mk2s to higher production numbers.. if we can jack up to 20 arjuns per year, that means something.
The only thing that pvt sector can do MUCH BETTER than a PSU is "grease the wheels" of resistance to Arjun. But I donno if they can put in more grease than the Russian greasers.
Its simple boys...money talks and PSU/GOI cant do that kinda talking. I am sure HAL did a lot of wineing and dining with the Chileians.
sure they can grease better than pirang greasers. they can also add PTFE to a silicon grease if need be. tatas and big weights can always carry suitcase of these to all IA yamuna bank retirees.. heck, we can't get this any other way than this.
okay.. this is bad.. lets do this. and make it a sting operation. two birds in one shot. let IA be clear of such men.
okay.. this is bad.. lets do this. and make it a sting operation. two birds in one shot. let IA be clear of such men.
The exisitng Arjun has a laser warning systemJCage wrote:What really places the Arjun in a different category vs the T-90S/M are its crew protection measures. Unfortunately, the T-90 retains the effed up ammunition arrangement of the T series, with semicombustible cased ammunition scattered all over the tank, posing an extremely disastrous (in case of penetration, fire hazard); an explosion would also disable any fire detection and suppression system and pop up the turret. The commander and gunner "sit" on a carousel autoloader which places the ammo in the hull ( a plus), but offers no protection against lateral penetration of the autoloader. The Arjun in contrast has heavy armour and passive crew protection measures (separated ammunition) and a semiautomatic loader (a la the Merk) behind armour protection is scheduled for Mk2, an improvement over the earlier system. Then there is the LWS as well.
Yes, and the commander has access to the display as well...btw please check ur rediffmail...Kersi D wrote:The exisitng Arjun has a laser warning system
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About pvt sector:
Defence employees union would have collective fit aka strike
Full scale Arjun production by pvt sector w/o long term orders means GOI picks up part of tab for infra & facility. Hard for GOI to explain to the useless commies, given that existing PSU facilities are already around (BEML, BHEL).
Last edited by JCage on 08 Feb 2006 15:40, edited 1 time in total.
GoI might consider inviting private participations for production of Arjun and the same time maintaining the T72/T90 production lines in the Avadi facility.
That should take care of the Leftist goons.
Moving forward...can we then export some Arjuns with downgraded features to smaller friendly countries? That should ensure the financial viability for the private players.
That should take care of the Leftist goons.
Moving forward...can we then export some Arjuns with downgraded features to smaller friendly countries? That should ensure the financial viability for the private players.
ISRAELI STALLS
BARAK
EHUD ACMI POD
ELBIT - WIN-BMS - GROUND FORCES TACTICAL TRAINER #1
ELBIT - WIN-BMS - GROUND FORCES TACTICAL TRAINER #2
ELBIT HIGH DATA-RATE MARITIME VSAT TERMINAL#1
ELBIT HIGH DATA-RATE MARITIME VSAT TERMINAL#2
ELBIT HIGH DATA RATE MARITIME VSAT TERMINAL INFOBOARD
ELBIT INFOBOARD - DIGITAL ARMY IN ACTION
EHUD ACMI POD
ELBIT - WIN-BMS - GROUND FORCES TACTICAL TRAINER #1
ELBIT - WIN-BMS - GROUND FORCES TACTICAL TRAINER #2
ELBIT HIGH DATA-RATE MARITIME VSAT TERMINAL#1
ELBIT HIGH DATA-RATE MARITIME VSAT TERMINAL#2
ELBIT HIGH DATA RATE MARITIME VSAT TERMINAL INFOBOARD
ELBIT INFOBOARD - DIGITAL ARMY IN ACTION
JCage.. thats is something to hear. Defence Employees can form unions and strike!?!? i did not know that. i thought all defence staff are essential employees and thus can't strike. would'nt they sign up in the job agreement at the time of joining?
ok lets assume there is a threat looming and a la kargil is happening.. would we be giving jilebis to those striking guys, or whip their ass to do the work?
ok lets assume there is a threat looming and a la kargil is happening.. would we be giving jilebis to those striking guys, or whip their ass to do the work?
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- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 6046
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- Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists
Employees of the OFB and other defense PSUs like HAL are civilian employees. They have the right to strike just like the counterparts like any other sector. The govt, psu , departments and public sector broadly in general is the the sweet spot for unionism. This is the place where electoral politics, soicalist welfarism and govt patronage politics converge, usually protected by legislated /govt mandated monopolies/quasi monopolies. This is the most fertile ground for unbridled and irresponsbible trade unionism bordering on holdging the entire country in some cases to ransom(where most of the critical parts of the economy) are handled by govt/allied orgs.SaiK wrote:JCage.. thats is something to hear. Defence Employees can form unions and strike!?!? i did not know that. i thought all defence staff are essential employees and thus can't strike. would'nt they sign up in the job agreement at the time of joining?
ok lets assume there is a threat looming and a la kargil is happening.. would we be giving jilebis to those striking guys, or whip their ass to do the work?
Now in a national emergency like a war, these rights are kept in abeyance and in the broader public interest, in sectors deemed essential like utilites, transport etc, the govt ini India can invoke the Essential Services Maintenance Act (ESMA) that can make strikes illegal in such circumstances.
Bottom line.. 1960s/70s like trade union/ gherao /flash strikes/stranded at the same spot for 6 hours kind of environment in West Bengal is the sure recipe for de-industrialization and flight of capital..
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- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 6046
- Joined: 11 May 2005 06:56
- Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists
Good.. No problem, pay them well ..I have no quarrels with that. However, insist that these will be directly linked to the profitability of the enterprise, productivity, quality and competitiveness in the market. Also if harsh measures need to be taken like downsizing, write that into the contract with the unions..Vick wrote:Defense employees are about to strike... for the 6th Pay Commission.
GUYS THIS IS NOT A GOOD PLACE TO GO OFF ON THE 6TH PAY COMMISSION TANGENT (it is worthwhile but not here). STICK TO DEFEXPO PLEASE.vina wrote:Good.. No problem, pay them well ..I have no quarrels with that. However, insist that these will be directly linked to the profitability of the enterprise, productivity, quality and competitiveness in the market. Also if harsh measures need to be taken like downsizing, write that into the contract with the unions..
http://img366.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... dar6dt.jpg
Is that each square represents a t/r module. if so, i do count only 1360 of them. 40 x 34 rows. I thought they boasted 1500 t/r GaAs modules. but pretty close and good enough for mig-29s.
Is that each square represents a t/r module. if so, i do count only 1360 of them. 40 x 34 rows. I thought they boasted 1500 t/r GaAs modules. but pretty close and good enough for mig-29s.
Re: ISRAELI STALLS
Check the poster of a boat behind the Barak ...
Apparantly that is called "Dark Shark":
Israel Defense Forces Navy Unleashes "Death Shark" Against Terrorism
...
The unmanned speedboat is equipped with a remote-controlled machine gun capable of being operated with laser accuracy up to a range of 50 kilometers, reportedly the first of its kind in the world.
Private defense analysts who have studied photos of the "Death Shark" or what the IDF brands as the "Protector" state that the Rafael Industries weapon is equipped with at least four cameras, as well as a sonar or radar system and electro-optics capable of providing a three-dimensional image. The cameras are said to operate with the same distance and high definition as satellite cameras, being able to capture a licence plate number and the barrel of gun from a distance of 10 miles.
The nine-meter-long, rigid hull, inflatable vessel has been undergoing sea trials for a number of months. Israel Navy officials said it has "already drawn blood" but declined to elaborate. They stressed that the unmanned boat was an "all-Israel" assembly.
...
Developers also said the "Death Shark" could be used to ferry Israel and allied commandos, as well as contribute to anti-terrorist protection. Analysts say it could be used as the ultimate "suicide bomber" being able to carry a payload of undefined weapons against a ship, submarine or an enemy coastal military installation. The analysts suspect that the "Death Shark" has been around for at least a year, with hundreds deployed throughout the waters of the Middle East and Mediterranean.
The "Death Shark" will most definitely be used to protect and escort Israel's merchant marine fleet and civilian vessels in both the Middle East and throughout the world, say analysts. It was most probably used during Israel disengagement from Gaza, where it quietly neutralized terrorists both on land and in the water attempting to disrupt Israel's unilateral peace move.
The machine gun is a mini-Typhoon type, also developed by Rafael. The Typhoon system allows the gun to stay on target as the unmanned surface vehicle (USV) bounces across the waves. Developers said the pilot of the vessel would be an Israel Defense Forces officer. This officer would most likely be a trained field intelligence professional cooperating with Israel military, Shabak (domestic security) and the Mossad.
The officer who would command this drone from either a few miles or thousands would go through a one-week training course. A second "mission module operator" would be responsible for its mission - be it surveillance or offensive.
...
Good idea that one. Being a business minded person that I am, I would be the happiest man when we start exporting defence equipment to other countries big time. But I have some doubts. Which friendly countries would be interested in Arjun ? Its not something cheap like T-series from Russia which every Tom, Dick & Harry will purchase. Arjun is much more sophisticated and bigger. Smaller countries dont have the doctrine to accomodate Arjun. So IMHO Arjun exports are out, but we can sure export other IFVs using Arjun tech. India can always manage cost advantage due to relatively lower labor costs. Please correct me if I am wrong.sroy wrote:Moving forward...can we then export some Arjuns with downgraded features to smaller friendly countries? That should ensure the financial viability for the private players.
@ JCage, that way our PSU & private sector can make real good money. Even setting up necessary infrastructure in host country will give good financial and diplomatic returns. More employment for our citizens and wider exposure coupled with growth of our defence industry will in turn contribute to attract best talents to the field of R&D. Revenue generated can be earmarked for further R&D, distributing the load among different players.
WOW! A superb product from Israel Very sophisticated indeed. But ain't it going to be pretty expensive? We are talking about a lot of sensors here. Is it being offered to IN/CG?Apparantly that is called "Dark Shark":
Israel Defense Forces Navy Unleashes "Death Shark" Against Terrorism
Quote:
...
The unmanned speedboat is equipped with a remote-controlled machine gun capable of being operated with laser accuracy up to a range of 50 kilometers, reportedly the first of its kind in the world.
Private defense analysts who have studied photos of the "Death Shark" or what the IDF brands as the "Protector" state that the Rafael Industries weapon is equipped with at least four cameras, as well as a sonar or radar system and electro-optics capable of providing a three-dimensional image. The cameras are said to operate with the same distance and high definition as satellite cameras, being able to capture a licence plate number and the barrel of gun from a distance of 10 miles.
The nine-meter-long, rigid hull, inflatable vessel has been undergoing sea trials for a number of months. Israel Navy officials said it has "already drawn blood" but declined to elaborate. They stressed that the unmanned boat was an "all-Israel" assembly.
...
Developers also said the "Death Shark" could be used to ferry Israel and allied commandos, as well as contribute to anti-terrorist protection. Analysts say it could be used as the ultimate "suicide bomber" being able to carry a payload of undefined weapons against a ship, submarine or an enemy coastal military installation. The analysts suspect that the "Death Shark" has been around for at least a year, with hundreds deployed throughout the waters of the Middle East and Mediterranean.
The "Death Shark" will most definitely be used to protect and escort Israel's merchant marine fleet and civilian vessels in both the Middle East and throughout the world, say analysts. It was most probably used during Israel disengagement from Gaza, where it quietly neutralized terrorists both on land and in the water attempting to disrupt Israel's unilateral peace move.
The machine gun is a mini-Typhoon type, also developed by Rafael. The Typhoon system allows the gun to stay on target as the unmanned surface vehicle (USV) bounces across the waves. Developers said the pilot of the vessel would be an Israel Defense Forces officer. This officer would most likely be a trained field intelligence professional cooperating with Israel military, Shabak (domestic security) and the Mossad.
The officer who would command this drone from either a few miles or thousands would go through a one-week training course. A second "mission module operator" would be responsible for its mission - be it surveillance or offensive.
-Zynda
[quote="Zynda"][quote]
Apparantly that is called "Dark Shark":
Israel Defense Forces Navy Unleashes "Death Shark" Against Terrorism
Quote:
...
The unmanned speedboat is equipped with a remote-controlled machine gun capable of being operated with laser accuracy up to a range of 50 kilometers, reportedly the first of its kind in the world.
quote]
a machine gun with a range of 50kms??!!
Apparantly that is called "Dark Shark":
Israel Defense Forces Navy Unleashes "Death Shark" Against Terrorism
Quote:
...
The unmanned speedboat is equipped with a remote-controlled machine gun capable of being operated with laser accuracy up to a range of 50 kilometers, reportedly the first of its kind in the world.
quote]
a machine gun with a range of 50kms??!!
Frankly I am not sure whether the Arjun has a 1400 or 1500 hp engine. When I enquired about the EUROPAk ( 1500 hp ? ) the DRDO offcier said that thye are NOT considering it right now. Changing the engine in a tank (or an aircraft ) is not MS type of cut-nad-paste. It involves achnging a lot of systems. This change might come in Arjun Mk 3.vina wrote:No... GTRE modifying the original 1400 hp to 1500 hp doesnt sound right. It is not just enought to increase the boost. The torque curve changes, the piston, crank shaft, bearings and all the rest of the stuff have to be strengthened / modified to handle the increased power,also the torque curve will be peakier , with a bigger turbo lag. For engines with this sort of power range, there would also be some piston cooling arrangement (not something you will find on cars & truck engines) I would think, that will also need to be modified.. Too much work for just a 100 hp boost.. Would not be worth it..JCage wrote:I havent read any report of MTU supplying newer powerpacks for the Arjun- the extra 100 hp- turbocharger thing seems to be the only issue that can fit.
As regards design data etc- MTU have been closely involved, sending folks
over to handle the earlier tendency to overheat.
In any case, just working with MTU for the cooling pack / radiator kind of thing wont give you design details on the engine to allow you to do the kind of work mentioned above.
If the 1500hp rating is correct, I would place my bet on an engine different from the original 1400hp MTU. Can someone who visited DefExpo throw some more light on it ?Maybe there was more details on a brochure or something beyond the info board ?
Kersi
...btw please check ur rediffmail...JCage wrote:Kersi D wrote:The exisitng Arjun has a laser warning system
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No mail from you. My e mail ID is kersikdotiwalla@rediffmail.com
LARSEN & TOUBRO STALL CONTD.
There was a video at L&T's stall demonstrating L&T's degaussing system for the Indian Navy. The following are snaps of that video.
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