Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10, 2015

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 22 Aug 2015 18:26

Sen_K wrote:On NDTV, the great diplomat KC Singh says that Pakistan with it's NSA who has been a foreign minister as well as finance minister can't talk only terror, unlike India where a policeman is masquerading as a NSA. This guy is really going overboard.
BJP's Sambit Patra in reply said 'Im a proud Indian...astonished that Im the only one speaking the language of Indian government. Rest of the panel members' (shekhar gupta, am singhvi and a porki general) language match with Pakistan'. The idiot Nidhi Razdan immediately gets irate and asks him to apologize.

not watching that channel could be an option?

Tuvaluan · Post by **Tuvaluan** » 22 Aug 2015 18:28

@ambkcsingh Aug 21
Doesn't matter what Gov decides but we must then be consistent and settle ground rules clearly before announcing meetings.

KC Singh needs to pay attention to the news -- It has been repeatedly reported that GoI set the ground rules for the NSA meet in Ufa, and the pakis just unilaterally modified it...so what is this compromised cretin going on about when he says "ground rules need to be settled before announcing meetings"? He wants Pakis to lay down the agenda? Is it any surprise that India was unable to deal with pakistan when the likes of him were in charge in the past decades?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Aug 2015 18:34

Something has happened to KC Singh for a while now. Imbecility has overtaken him, perhaps? Time has come for him to be discarded in the overall scheme of things.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Aug 2015 18:36

abhijitm wrote: not watching that channel could be an option?

Yes, but "international community" closely monitors that channel, and in fact they are the audience for the anchors. So no harm keeping a tab on their propaganda.

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Aug 2015 18:38

First Post praises our External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj for a robust riposte and sterling performance:

"Let him come first...My message to him in two sentences is: In the spirit of the Shimla agreement don't make the Hurriyat or any third party part of the talks. And in the spirit of the Ufa agreement, don't discuss anything but terrorism."

Swaraj also blew into smithereens Aziz’s strong remark that they have a “dossier” on the activities of Indian external intelligence agency Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) and if he is unable to hand it over to the Indian side during his proposed talks with Doval Pakistan would definitely be doing so at the United Nations General Assembly.

She mocked at this remark saying in Hindi meaning thus: “Are dossiers handed over in such a cavalier manner while moving about in corridors?”

Swaraj twisted the knife when she said: “They are talking about dossiers. We will bring him face to face with their own man (Naved) who was sent by them to conduct terror strikes but was captured alive (in Udhampur)… Let them give us ‘dossiers’, we will give them live proof of terrorism.”

Whatever the fate of the NSA talks – and one should know it by tonight – one thing is clear. After a long time India has been able to match Pakistan’s art of scoring brownie points. The credit for this goes to Sushma Swaraj.

From here:

Dump Hurriyat or NSA talks: With stellar comeback, Sushma Swaraj puts Pakistan on the spot

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 22 Aug 2015 19:00

The retards from porkland thought they had passed over the ball to india but Ms. Swaraj pummeled it back so hard, the langurs of pindi will be sorry they bowled at her..

The clarity of thought and speech during the conference was crystal. GoI seems to be in a scrum before giving any response.

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 22 Aug 2015 19:02

Midnight deadline means nothing. Tomorrow Aziz will land up in Delhi and say they are open for talks. And will go on and invite the hurryrats as well. What then? We have to learn to do diplomacy better. Give them a long rope to hang themselves. Be more chankian pliz.

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Aug 2015 19:03

Video of our EAM’s press conference. Unfortunately in Hindi and without English sub titles:

Media Briefing By External Affairs Minister (August 22, 2015)

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 22 Aug 2015 19:09

CRamS wrote:Yes, but "international community" closely monitors that channel, and in fact they are the audience for the anchors. So no harm keeping a tab on their propaganda.

Not the audience but the puppeteers. These "channels" simply channelise what the "International Community" tells them to.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Aug 2015 19:09

Guys, Undy only has a short clip of Sushma SwarajJi's press conference. Anybody has the full link?

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Aug 2015 19:15

^^^ Check out the link in my post, two posts above yours.

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Aug 2015 19:26

X Posted from the “J&K News and Discussion-2015” thread.

arun wrote:Mohammadden separatist Shabir Shah who arrived in New Delhi with intention to meet NSA of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan detained at New Delhi airport.

Let me hope that there is no backsliding as in Jammu & Kashmir when arrested Mohammadden separatists were released from house arrest by the governing BJP / PDP coalition:

Shabir Shah arrives to meet Pak NSA, detained at Delhi airport

Mohammadden separatist Bilal Lone who arrived in New Delhi with intention to meet NSA of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan joins Shabir Shah in being detained at New Delhi airport.

Let me hope that there is no backsliding as in Jammu & Kashmir when arrested Mohammadden separatists were released from house arrest by the governing BJP / PDP coalition:

After Hurriyat Leader Shabir Shah, Separatist Bilal Lone Detained At Delhi Airport

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Aug 2015 19:57

^^^ There is some poetic justice, if the separatists think themselves as belonging to a separate country, then they can be detained at Delhi for coming without proper entry documents

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Aug 2015 20:12

arun wrote:Video of our EAM’s press conference. Unfortunately in Hindi and without English sub titles:

Media Briefing By External Affairs Minister (August 22, 2015)

No problem boss, I am no Hindi expert either, but SushmaJi's is putting on a sterling performance. I am about half way, dil maangae more

.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 22 Aug 2015 20:35

I am so fed up with this tamasha that the only thing that would satisfy me is to see Deadwood & company or Hafiz or Lakvi pig get their 72 while NSA talks are ongoing. That press conference with Puki NSA in Delhi where reporters are asking about 72 or Lakvi or Hafiz or Dawood would make my day. Otherwise all this == going on in media is highly insulting India.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 22 Aug 2015 20:39

Fantastic presser handled excellently by Sushmaji. Very clear and apparent to anyone - as to which party is to blame for the sequence of events.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 22 Aug 2015 20:44

Pakistan must be shown its strategic vulnerability

'As India and Pakistan observe the 50th anniversary of the 1965 war, the one lesson that ought to have been learned by Pakistan is how vulnerable its heartland is to a sudden attack. The only alternative to this inherent geographic weakness is to have a policy of peace with India.'

'In an extreme scenario, India can destroy Pakistani strategic targets by just artillery shelling, crossing of the border is not even necessary,' says Colonel Anil A Athale (retd).

Finally, Pakistan has to realise that no amount of Chinese help and even its nuclear weapons can offset its geo-strategic weakness. That weakness is that the 'strategic heart' of Pakistan, the thickly populated Punjab province and all its strategic targets are within less than 50 to 70 kilometres from the Indian border.

Its much vaunted nuclear assets at Kahuta are less than 70 odd kms from Balnoi in the Poonch sector of J&K. This is well within extended artillery range. Lack of strategic depth for Pakistan ought to lead to the need for peace with India.

Since India is a status quo power, there is no real threat to Pakistani Punjab if there is no aggression from the other side. It is time India called the Pakistani bluff.

As India and Pakistan observe the 50th anniversary of the 1965 war, the one lesson that ought to have been learned by Pakistan is how vulnerable its heartland is to a sudden attack.

The only alternative to this inherent geographic weakness is to have a policy of peace with India. In an extreme scenario, India can destroy Pakistani strategic targets by just artillery shelling, crossing of the border is not even necessary.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 22 Aug 2015 20:46

Tuvaluan wrote:
On NDTV, the great diplomat KC Singh says that Pakistan with it's NSA who has been a foreign minister as well as finance minister can't talk only terror, unlike India where a policeman is masquerading as a NSA. This guy is really going overboard
Not very surprising. "Ambassador" KC Singh reveals himself as a despicable turd with every passing day, and seems to be the typical politically compromised IFS type. Thinks of himself as a great exbert on pakistan. The recent article by some Indian journo (KP Nayyar?) was also an IFS hit job on Doval which also used similar language and used disparaging terms to put him down.

There is a lot of "status anxiety" driving such talk. K C Singh is upset that Doval, a lowly IPS guy, got a top job as NSA (whereas he himself never made it beyond secretarry, that too in a non-mainline post like economics or something). In his mind, sartaj aziz is a fellow foreign service man, though from a rival team, therefore deserving his respect (unlike Doval).

He is not making any point based on national loyalty or merits of the case--his entire point is about what is suited to his fellow foreign service man aziz (who has achieved the pinnacle, therefore deserves not only his respect and deference but that of everyone else, because status is a "partially ordered set").

Apparently, Singh was not challenged on his status-driven outburst, only on his team loyalty. For elite circles in India, this kind of status anxiety is not noticeable because it is the norm.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 22 Aug 2015 20:49

Looks like Pakis have yet again chickened out, for them RAW involvement isn't an important issue to discuss meaning their claim is as hollow.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Aug 2015 20:52

Guys, I finished watching the press conference by SushmaJi. I would give it an absolute A+. By far the most brilliant performance by ModiJi govt. And this struck TSP (and its 3.5) right on the solar plexus. And may I add, it was completely factual, polished, erudite, and dare I say much more realistic than Doval's Sastra univ talk where us jingoes get a kick out of, but he didn' offer anything concrete about TSP losing Baluchistan if it does another 26//11. I am sure the slime ballsin US state dept and other halls of power in US/UK/China have noted her speech, and plotting how to resurrect their renter boy after this.

member_23858 · Post by **member_23858** » 22 Aug 2015 21:11

KLNMurthy wrote:
There is a lot of "status anxiety" driving such talk. K C Singh is upset that Doval, a lowly IPS guy, got a top job as NSA (whereas he himself never made it beyond secretarry, that too in a non-mainline post like economics or something). In his mind, sartaj aziz is a fellow foreign service man, though from a rival team, therefore deserving his respect (unlike Doval).

He is not making any point based on national loyalty or merits of the case--his entire point is about what is suited to his fellow foreign service man aziz (who has achieved the pinnacle, therefore deserves not only his respect and deference but that of everyone else, because status is a "partially ordered set").

Apparently, Singh was not challenged on his status-driven outburst, only on his team loyalty. For elite circles in India, this kind of status anxiety is not noticeable because it is the norm.

+1 saar

member_23858 · Post by **member_23858** » 22 Aug 2015 21:16

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/the-talk ... st-1209981
looks like pakjabis chickened out

Full marks to modi govt.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 22 Aug 2015 21:20

KLNMurthy ji,

Regarding Amb KC Singh and his tribe, you are spot on.

Sen_K · Post by **Sen_K** » 22 Aug 2015 21:24

CRamS wrote:Sen_K, that was posted here: viewtopic.php?p=1889477#p1889477. The most deplorable part of that is the Paki watching the squabble with a smirk on his face. This is the time when India media should be jingoistic and uphold India's interests, but instead, as someone else pointed out you have these dorks think they are like their white colonial masters amused and bemused as two turd world countries go at each other.

Now Manishankar aiyar saying:'Foreign policy cannot be left to a policeman like Ajit Doval'

Looks like manishankar and kcsingh had chaibiscoot session together. They are speaking the same language dissing Ajit Doval as just a policeman

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 22 Aug 2015 21:27

SSridhar wrote:Something has happened to KC Singh for a while now. Imbecility has overtaken him, perhaps? Time has come for him to be discarded in the overall scheme of things.

My take is - pissing on bjp gets you invites to these shows where you get appearance money and adulation and ego massages from assorted idiots.

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Aug 2015 21:38

martinbaker wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/the-talk ... st-1209981

looks like pakjabis chickened out

Full marks to modi govt.

The BJP led Government of our Prime Minister Narendra Modi should not have agreed to NSA level talks on terrorism in the first place at Ufa. Anyway better late than never and all’s well that ends well.

With talks deep sixed as I said earlier on page 4 of this thread (Clicky), India’s foreign policy regards the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan should be animated by the sheer pleasure of being ornery and having a punching bag to indulge bouts of sadistic behavior when the mood so comes over us.

Meanwhile for the record, the full text of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan's press release calling off NSA level talks in New Delhi:

Press release on pakistan - India NSA talks scheduled for 23-24 August 2015

(2015-08-22) Pakistan has carefully analyzed the contents of the Press Conference of the Indian Minister for External Affairs, Mrs. Sushma Sawaraj this afternoon. We have come to the conclusion that the proposed NSA level talks between the two countries would not serve any purpose, if conducted on the basis of the two conditions laid down by the Minister.

While the Indian Minister accepts that, to ensure durable peace between the two countries, there is a need to discuss all outstanding issues through a sustained dialogue process, started in 1998 as Composite Dialogue and renamed as Resumed Dialogue in 2011, she then unilaterally restricts the agenda to only two items: creating an atmosphere free from terrorism and tranquility on the LoC.

Considering that many terror "incidents" blamed initially by India on Pakistan eventually turned out to be fake, it is not improbable that India can delay the Resumed Dialogue indefinitely by concocting one or two incidents and keeping the LoC hot.

It is equally important to recall that terrorism was always a part of the eight point composite dialogue and it was always discussed simultaneously with other issues between the Interior Secretaries. It is not reasonable for India to now assume the right to decide unilaterally that from now onwards, other issues will be discussed after terrorism has been discussed and eliminated.

The main purpose of any dialogue between India and Pakistan is to reduce tensions and restore trust as a first step towards normalization. If the only purpose of NSA level talks is to discuss terrorism, then instead of improving the prospects for peace it will only intensify the blame game and further vitiate the atmosphere. That is why Pakistan had suggested that apart from discussion on terrorism related issues, the two sides should also discuss modalities and if possible a time schedule, for discussions on all outstanding issues including Kashmir, Siachen and Sir Creek, in keeping with the understanding of the Ufa statement. That is the only way to improve the prospects for peace between the two countries.

The EAM's attempt to draw a distinction between preambular and operative paragraphs in the Ufa statement appears to be an after-thought to justify a position that is counterproductive in terms of the ultimate objective of reducing tensions and improving trust.

As regards the second pre-condition regarding meeting with Hurriyat leaders, it has been pointed out repeatedly that it has been a long-standing practice that whenever Pakistani leaders visited India during the past twenty years, they have been meeting Hurriyet leaders. It would be inappropriate for India to now impose the condition of changing this longstanding practice.

Pakistan, therefore, reiterates that the scheduled NSA level talks cannot be held on the basis of the preconditions set by India.

Islamabad
22 August 2015

Link here:

Clicky

member_23858 · Post by **member_23858** » 22 Aug 2015 21:58

the way questions were hurled at mananiya swaraj-jee, one wonders whether she was addressing a press briefing in India, or TSP?

member_23858 · Post by **member_23858** » 22 Aug 2015 22:02

one positive outcome might be that Indian government has tried to set a precedent that meeting hoorray-rats of kashmir is not an option for pakee leader when visiting India. May be they will continue enforcing this from now on.

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Aug 2015 22:10

williams · Post by **williams** » 22 Aug 2015 22:10

While it is understandable that Modi govt Paki policy is confusing, there is a method to this madness. To start with PM Modi has forced the Pakis to spell out their stand. Pakis want to continue terrorism, divisive policy and then continue to talk. What Modi did is show that India is sincere to talk, but Pakis are not sincere. And when there is no sincerity, India will spell out conditions in adhoc fashion and cancel the talks if necessary. Indian moves are unpredictable and that will be a change to Pakis and their 3+1 friends.

The other aspect of this is the Indian people are slowly understanding how much media and intellectuals are working against India's national interest. I see majority of comments again WKK type editorials across the media.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 22 Aug 2015 22:17

SSridhar wrote:Something has happened to KC Singh for a while now. Imbecility has overtaken him, perhaps? Time has come for him to be discarded in the overall scheme of things.

I never saw him as a non-idiot ever.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 22 Aug 2015 22:20

arun wrote:Video of our EAM’s press conference. Unfortunately in Hindi and without English sub titles:

Media Briefing By External Affairs Minister (August 22, 2015)

Nothing like a first hand look at the top levels to sharpen and clarify perceptions.

Minister is sharp-minded and very well briefed on the topic. There were a couple of small goof-ups on 26/11 (2006 instead of 2008, explosion instead of attacks--later corrected) but otherwise excellent engagement and clarity.

Mediapersons, in general, were like kids who got "social promotion " to higher grade without mastering the material, but they don't realize the level of their own ignorance and under-preparedness. Very stubborn about clinging to their own assumptions and prejudices. Very bad at listening comprehension and even short-term retention. Just want to show their bosses that they asked a question ad maybe nailed the minister, not able to respect the simple request to avoid repeating the same dumb questions over and over.

Abhay_S · Post by **Abhay_S** » 22 Aug 2015 22:28

Sen_K wrote:
CRamS wrote:Sen_K, that was posted here: viewtopic.php?p=1889477#p1889477. The most deplorable part of that is the Paki watching the squabble with a smirk on his face. This is the time when India media should be jingoistic and uphold India's interests, but instead, as someone else pointed out you have these dorks think they are like their white colonial masters amused and bemused as two turd world countries go at each other.
Now Manishankar aiyar saying:'Foreign policy cannot be left to a policeman like Ajit Doval'

Looks like manishankar and kcsingh had chaibiscoot session together. They are speaking the same language dissing Ajit Doval as just a policeman

Looks like Doval Ji's appointment has hit the cabal that had a grip on National Security issues hard and people are getting exposed.

i am dissapointed by KC Singh.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 22 Aug 2015 22:31

SSridhar wrote:Something has happened to KC Singh for a while now. Imbecility has overtaken him, perhaps? Time has come for him to be discarded in the overall scheme of things.

I am guessing post-retirement frustration realizing deep down that he hasn't accomplished much, and his juniors from an "inferior" service like IPS are better at their jobs than he ever was?

arun · Post by **arun** » 22 Aug 2015 22:34

Code: Select all

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pakistan's decision is unfortunate. India did not set any preconditions.</p>— Vikas Swarup (@MEAIndia) <a href="https://twitter.com/MEAIndia/status/635137844084772864">August 22, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 22 Aug 2015 22:34

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ There is some poetic justice, if the separatists think themselves as belonging to a separate country, then they can be detained at Delhi for coming without proper entry documents

Do we have a law similar to the US one that prohibits unauthorized conduct of diplomacy by private individuals? If not, we need to get one on the books and put an end to these ad hoc detentions which can be challenged in court.

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 22 Aug 2015 22:36

I am glad we agreed to talk and put our conditions and are sticking to it. It is not a loss of face. In fact it should happen more often and slowly our red lines will be drawn in stone, never to cross.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 22 Aug 2015 22:36

CRamS wrote:Guys, I finished watching the press conference by SushmaJi. I would give it an absolute A+. By far the most brilliant performance by ModiJi govt. And this struck TSP (and its 3.5) right on the solar plexus. And may I add, it was completely factual, polished, erudite, and dare I say much more realistic than Doval's Sastra univ talk where us jingoes get a kick out of, but he didn' offer anything concrete about TSP losing Baluchistan if it does another 26//11. I am sure the slime ballsin US state dept and other halls of power in US/UK/China have noted her speech, and plotting how to resurrect their renter boy after this.

Just think--congis wanted this superbly capable minister fired over nothing at all.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 22 Aug 2015 22:46

India should now make it mandatory that only RAW/IB/IPS/Armed Forces Personnel can head/lead the NSA.
This is to prevent absolute ass*oles* like Mani Shankar, Lambah, and the KC Singhs ever get to head this.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 22 Aug 2015 22:55

Sen_K wrote:
CRamS wrote:Sen_K, that was posted here: viewtopic.php?p=1889477#p1889477. The most deplorable part of that is the Paki watching the squabble with a smirk on his face. This is the time when India media should be jingoistic and uphold India's interests, but instead, as someone else pointed out you have these dorks think they are like their white colonial masters amused and bemused as two turd world countries go at each other.
Now Manishankar aiyar saying:'Foreign policy cannot be left to a policeman like Ajit Doval'

Looks like manishankar and kcsingh had chaibiscoot session together. They are speaking the same language dissing Ajit Doval as just a policeman

MSA the sinophile communist is another highly status-obsessed man. Most Indian leftists are the same way.

Their words get amplified in the echo chamber that is the elite media.