Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10, 2015

[CRamS]

CRamS ji
But you complain toooooo much about evrything!
You're always dhoti shivering, or cussing india's leadership.

CRamS ji is the opposite of "Harpal" Bector

I would love to meet you in person to get to know u better sir-ji

I look forward to that as well.

Sorry if I complain, but I also praise when it calls for the same. Like ModiJi's course correction through SushmaJi's press conf yesterday. I also don't complain for the sake of complaining, for e.g., TSP has upped the ante along LoC, its easy for ModiJu haters to take pot shots at him, but I know better that Indian army and other forces are doing what they can.

On the political side, one doesn't need to be a Cong type or any other ModiJi hater to point out that was a glaring flip flop by ModiJi's over-eagerness to talk to TSP after last Aug when he correctly established the Harried rats red line and the Doval doctrine of aggressive defense, however much he might couch that as talks only on terror etc. I also don't buy into his view of driving a wedge between the sheriffs. When it comes to India, only when TSP feels the pinch can any progress be made.

All that is past, I won't complain from now on assuming of course ModiJi stays the course. And I would like him to be even more aggressive, like cutting of pee pee contact as much as possible by making life hard for TSP RAPE to get visas, reducing diplo contact etc.

[eklavya]

Actually, the Ufa declaration and its aftermath have played out to India's significant advantage:

1. Pakistan has all but declared openly that terror is the prime instrument of their Kashmir policy. The insistence on discussing terror and Kashmir at the same time makes this amply clear. The reluctance to discuss terror will prise away layers of their so called "plausible deniability".

2. The Hurriyat have yet again been shown to be Pakistani lickspittle; this will assist the process of further restricting and eradicating the scope of their unlawful activities.

3. The civilian government in Pakistan has yet again been shown to be not in charge of its foreign and security policies; India can therefore continue to sow discord between the civilians and the army, and thereby undermine the entire Pakistani ruling establishment.

Now, a cost was paid in terms of lives in Gurdaspur, Udhampur, and on the LoC.

At the first opportunity, it's important that the BSF/IA are given full rein to pay the Pakistanis back with interest and some more.

[Gagan]

I'll have to rewatch the video to try to get the context right.
I think she is referring to the fact that every interaction with Pakistan is not going to be a summit level dialogue.

The pakistanis are beggers who are kicked around by all their 3.5 masters. Their fauji and civilian leadership is always asking for aid and hand me downs from their masters.
To try to pretend to be a normal nation they want every tamasha of a summit with arch foe India, where they'll display their Pakistaniyat. They're a bit like Mamta Banerjee, and can't ever hold a peaceful dialogue or solve anything through dialogue.

These haramzadas know only a master servant relationship, and you have to kick them around or else they will display Pakistaniyat

This instance of talks on terrorism has put their entire state machinery in disarray with infighting, threat of a coup, and a 1000 internal contradictions and mutinies,

[Gagan]

What an absolute waste of time this entire bit of interaction with the Pakistanis has been!
I am sure GOI must have been very busy with the forthcoming Egypt and Germany visits, in addition to meeting the visiting mozambiquean and tanzanian delegations, planning further inroads into africa and ouirope and what not.

[Guddu]

Varta: in diplomatese is formal talks to be differentiated from the usual becturbation and bloviation.

[Gagan]

I won't complain from now on assuming of course ModiJi stays the course. And I would like him to be even more aggressive, like cutting of pee pee contact as much as possible by making life hard for TSP RAPE to get visas, reducing diplo contact etc.

I am not so demanding
I for one would be happy if India cuts off Pakistan's pee pee onlee

[Amber G.]

Sushma Swaraj was simply brilliant in that conference, while multitasking. (on her way to Egypt and Germany etc). Now this story shows what a gem she is.(

As said, this world is better because of people like her..

Just 1 tweet! Sushma Swaraj helps in rescuing Indian girl kept as hostage in UAE

[Chinmayanand]

An ex-pakistani national trying to open eyes of Indians and GoI.

[Brad Goodman]

Gagan and A.G. thanks. I do not know if you watched the video, can you explain why she stressed so much on the word 'Vartha' and tried to differentiate it with others? I am not looking at the Hindi (or Sanskrit) meaning of it; but importance of that word. Thank you.

She said that in her opening statement to really make the context very clear to every one so that they can understand and appreciate the line of thinking that Government was taking. To my understanding what she was trying to convey was

1. Varta = Composite dialogue and this is something that means u discuss all issues likes water, commerce, Kashmir, sircreek, LOC, IB etc

2. Talks = Limited to only one topic and which according to Ufa release was limited to terrorism

She said reason we do not want Aziz to bring in Kashmir is because this is a talk not composite or resumed dialogue and the mandate to discuss Kashmir is not with NSA but with MEA

[salaam]

Shahid Masood - 22 Aug
- ‘Sheikh Rasheed’ as a guest kept talking about a nuclear annihilation for India if war happens.
- Most of the show was on internal Pakistan issues.


Shahid Masood - 23 Aug
- ‘Faisal Raza Abidi’ was the guest, who kept talking about a nuclear annihilation for India if war happens. According to him “Pak will lose only 22 cr while india will lose 122cr, hence a win for Pak”
- Show was on internal Pakistan issues, most notable was a bank sale fraud.
- In the end, Masood (it felt so) reading from a script said:

• - We are neighbors and can’t wish away each other
  - India has to backtrack from Kabul and let Pak have freehand (implied).
  - Kashmir plebiscite is the only solution as Kashmir is of neither countries.
  - Without Kashmir solution nothing will happen
  - The people of Pak are completely behind Kashmir cause.
  - New generation is also learning about Kashmir now.

Najam Sethi - 22 Aug
- Both India and Pakistan have boxed themselves in a corner. Respective media and citizens won’t let them backtrack.
- Only way to move out of this quicksand is to do a meeting a third country where Hurriyat question doesn’t come into the picture.


Najam Sethi - 23 Aug
- Didn’t discuss India

[member_29038]

Gagan and A.G. thanks. I do not know if you watched the video, can you explain why she stressed so much on the word 'Vartha' and tried to differentiate it with others? I am not looking at the Hindi (or Sanskrit) meaning of it; but importance of that word. Thank you.

She said that in her opening statement to really make the context very clear to every one so that they can understand and appreciate the line of thinking that Government was taking. To my understanding what she was trying to convey was

1. Varta = Composite dialogue and this is something that means u discuss all issues likes water, commerce, Kashmir, sircreek, LOC, IB etc

2. Talks = Limited to only one topic and which according to Ufa release was limited to terrorism

She said reason we do not want Aziz to bring in Kashmir is because this is a talk not composite or resumed dialogue and the mandate to discuss Kashmir is not with NSA but with MEA

To add to the Varta bit - Composite dialogue was renamed to Resumed dialogue (after 26/11) to include progress on Mumbai trials.

GOI Stand -No Dialogue/Vaarta with Pak before terror is resolved. If they wanted (and as agreed in Ufa) Pak could have discussed terror , but Sartaj Aziz didn't show up (implying that they have no proof of RAA or whatever else they keep telling their abduls and assorted RAPEs)

[Amber G.]

I saw the headline too, and my first thought was "where is jrjrao?"
(Interesting that my hunch was correct, that post brought Jrjraw to come out from the cold and post this here..)

Packees are very clever and very smart. How they are able to see and imagine strange things is maayaa onlee:

India accepts Hurriyat as third party in ‘bilateral’ talks

Similar smartness which only a paki can show is also shown in this:
Saudi Arab formally informs Pakistan that Modi was there for conspiracy, and Saudi King assures that he will never allow Modi conspiracy against Pakistan to succeed

[Amber G.]

BTW, time to make the youtube with nice music and release it.. Anyone with singing voice..??
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 2#p1776942

[Falijee]

I saw the headline too, and my first thought was "where is jrjrao?"
(Interesting that my hunch was correct, that post brought Jrjraw to come out from the cold and post this here..)

Packees are very clever and very smart. How they are able to see and imagine strange things is maayaa onlee:

India accepts Hurriyat as third party in ‘bilateral’ talks

Similar smartness which only a paki can show is also shown in this:
Saudi Arab formally informs Pakistan that Modi was there for conspiracy, and Saudi King assures that he will never allow Modi conspiracy against Pakistan to succeed

1. I also saw the headline ( India Accepts Hurriyat As Third Party In 'Bilateral' Talks ), read the attached farticle and mentally noted that the contents had no connection with the manufactured headline in this 'respected' Paki Daily!

2. As for the piece in the (propangandu) 'Nation' , the less said the better. Either there was a Paki 'fly on the wall' during the Modiji meetings or the esteemed Maulanas have a direct line to the Ummah Heads .

[KLNMurthy]

BTW, time to make the youtube with nice music and release it.. Anyone with singing voice..??
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 2#p1776942

Wah wah subhanallah

[SSridhar]

Actually, by not turning up for the meeting which was agreed upon at Ufa between the two Prime Ministers, Pakistan has the onus of initiating the talks once again and the venue will have to be New Delhi. Moreover, the Indian redlines have been conveyed in no uncertain terms twice now (FS & NSA). There is therefore no question of Pakistan trying to do the same thing all over again and hoping the results would be different.

[sanjaykumar]

This has nothing to do with talks or even Kashmir. India is making a point of demonstrating where the natural power equilibrium lies. And rubbing pakistan's nose in it.

There is no further political need in not disillusioning Pakistan. New votes harvested will compensate those lost. Pakistan needs to understand this.

[Abhay_S]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBwfNqN7FD4

Bay Laag - Aug 23.

posting this here instead of the TSP-Multimedia thread as i found some analyses mixed in with the usual Bravado , Self Pity and Propaganda. I will try to Give a Short Summary of what Moeed Yusuf said.

1 Modi has moved away from MMS' Policies and changed the Terms of Agreement
2 Stratergy is to isolate Pakistan and improve relations with all other countries except Pakistan(cite enclave issue with Bangladesh)
3 Ufa has set a new bench mark Just like Shimla and India will only Talk about its core issues and Exclude Kashmir from now
4 India has no compulsion to talk and will only talk in its terms or play this on and off game
5 Modi can do this as Economic differential has become big and Pakistan's Image is Bad
6 If this trend continues in 10yrs India will not even talk for the 4 mins it does now and Treat it like Bhutan.
7 India interests the world and pakistan worries the world.

[Arjun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBwfNqN7FD4

Bay Laag - Aug 23.

posting this here instead of the TSP-Multimedia thread as i found some analyses mixed in with the usual Bravado , Self Pity and Propaganda. I will try to Give a Short Summary of what Moeed Yusuf said.

1 Modi has moved away from MMS' Policies and changed the Terms of Agreement
2 Stratergy is to isolate Pakistan and improve relations with all other countries except Pakistan(cite enclave issue with Bangladesh)
3 Ufa has set a new bench mark Just like Shimla and India will only Talk about its core issues and Exclude Kashmir from now
4 India has no compulsion to talk and will only talk in its terms or play this on and off game
5 Modi can do this as Economic differential has become big and Pakistan's Image is Bad
6 If this trend continues in 10yrs India will not even talk for the 4 mins it does now and Treat it like Bhutan.
7 India interests the world and pakistan worries the world.

Moeed Yusuf's analysis is on the dot. Tragedy that India has this huge crowd of Congress/AAP-type morons who don't even hve the basic understanding that Moeed posseses:

Bottomline, compromise between two countries is dependant on (a) relative support for each country's position in international quarters which in turn is related to the country's global image, and (b) power differential between the two countries (military and economic).

On both of these fronts - Pakistan's position has been weakening against India and will continue to do so. Ergo- there is NO reason to talk to Pakistan on Kashmir. But we can make them tlk to us on matters of interest to us - such as terror. Modi's approach has been precisely this.

[Anujan]

Actually, by not turning up for the meeting which was agreed upon at Ufa between the two Prime Ministers, Pakistan has the onus of initiating the talks once again and the venue will have to be New Delhi. Moreover, the Indian redlines have been conveyed in no uncertain terms twice now (FS & NSA). There is therefore no question of Pakistan trying to do the same thing all over again and hoping the results would be different.

Pakis are distorting the fact that the NSA talks were about "all issues". The Ufa statement clearly reads:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/resources/ ... 407431.ece

They agreed that India and Pakistan have a collective responsibility to ensure peace and promote development. To do so, they are prepared to discuss all outstanding issues.

Both leaders condemned terrorism in all its forms and agreed to cooperate with each other to eliminate this menace from South Asia.

They also agreed on the following steps to be taken by the two sides:

1. A meeting in New Delhi between the two NSAs to discuss all issues connected to terrorism.

2. Early meetings of DG BSF and DG Pakistan Rangers followed by that of DGMOs.

3. Decision for release of fishermen in each other’s custody, along with their boats, within a period of 15 days.

4. Mechanism for facilitating religious tourism.

5. Both sides agreed to discuss ways and means to expedite the Mumbai case trial, including additional information like providing voice samples.

We are prepared to discuss all issues, but the NSA talks were only about terrorism. Unless of course Pakis agree that terrorism originating from Pakistan is related to JK and sponsored by them. If they give it in writing, then maybe we can discuss JK among NSAs

[Anujan]

BTW

[SSridhar]

Oh, Mehr Tarar, a journalist at that, is pretending as though she is getting aware of the details only now!

[SSridhar]

‘Better not to engage till issues are sorted out' - Suhasini Haidar, The Hindu

The NSA talks between India and Pakistan may have been pre-destined for failure given the “Hurriyat hurdle.”

Stung by criticism in Pakistan over the exclusion of Kashmir from the Ufa statement, the Nawaz Sharif government felt it couldn’t send Sartaj Aziz to Delhi without meeting Kashmiri separatists, and the Modi government, that took a big risk with the initiative to restart talks, couldn’t have been seen giving in on the Hurriyat issue. But how important were the NSA talks themselves to the process and what will calling them off mean?

“These talks were critical to the India-Pakistan process as we need a starting point to discuss our existential problems” says former Ambassador Jayant Prasad, adding, “For India those are fighting terrorism and ensuring peace and tranquillity at the border.”

On the Pakistani side, the view is the opposite. “The NSA talks were an opening to resume the full dialogue,” former High Commissioner to India Aziz Ahmed Khan told The Hindu over telephone from Islamabad, “Now there’s little hope they can be restarted. Without a discussion on Kashmir resolution, the Pakistan government is in an impossible situation.” Former Ambassador and now Senator Sherry Rehman says the NSA talks were a non-starter given the “narrow agenda” both sides had agreed to. “There is no way core issues can be kept off the table,” she told The Hindu .

Predictable divisions

Former NSA Leela Ponappa too feels that the talks between the two NSAs were based on “unrealistic expectations”. “I think even after Ufa it was dubious what could of come of this kind of engagement. In any case it has never been possible to restrict agendas in this way, as Pakistan does not have normal or predictable responses.”

There are also predictable divisions over whether any future dialogue will be derailed over the question of Pakistani diplomats meeting the Hurriyat.

“India will have to allow some contact with the Hurriyat,” says Mr. Aziz Khan {Why?} , adding that one way to take the pressure off such meetings would be for the Jammu and Kashmir government to itself begin a dialogue with the Hurriyat that could be seen “as a way of giving them a voice in the process.”

However Ms. Ponappa feels the Hurriyat can never be included in such dialogues in any way. “The government has drawn a welcome redline. For any Pakistani to think they can meet separatists in India is as absurd, as Indian leaders meeting Baloch fighters in Pakistan,” she says. Ambassador Prasad agrees, suggesting that in the near future, the Indian red line will mean all leaders only meet on the sidelines of multilateral fora like the UNGA session in September. “Anywhere away from the media glare would help,” he adds.

‘Temporary lull’

When it comes to how this process can be picked up if at all, diplomats on both sides are unanimous that the calling off of NSA talks is only a temporary lull. “Even after the 1971 war, talks were restarted after just six months,” says Ms. Ponappa, adding that DGMO talks and the meeting fixed between border ranger DGs will take place anyway.” Eventually, says Sherry Rehman, the two sides will have to stop being “cold war dinosaurs”, and plan a joint agenda that includes each others core concerns including Kashmir and terrorism.” Mr. Khan even says a short period of “reflection” may benefit the process as well. “It maybe better not to try and engage for some months, until other issues like the LoC tensions are sorted out.”

[Kashi]

There is therefore no question of Pakistan trying to do the same thing all over again and hoping the results would be different.

If that were true, Pakis would have not persisted with their shenanigans- LoC/IB firing, stoking terror, raising Cashmere internationally etc. They have seen the outcome and it has not been favourable to them most of the time, yet they persist in doing so.

Why?

a. Either they believe or they have been led to believe that if they persist, the outcome will be eventually favourable. Their fora, their newspapers and blogs keep harping on past examples from the "Islamic history" as to how the momin persisted despite repeated failures and eventually "triumphed".

b. They are desperate, crumbling and on the verge of falling apart and the only thing that will hold them together is the India bogey, so why give up the sole source of the glue that barely keeps it together?

I for one do not foresee Pakis giving up their usual behaviour at least in the near future.

[Tuvaluan]

Former NSA Leela Ponappa too feels that the talks between the two NSAs were based on “unrealistic expectations”. “I think even after Ufa it was dubious what could of come of this kind of engagement. In any case it has never been possible to restrict agendas in this way, as Pakistan does not have normal or predictable responses.”

Suhasini Haider seems to be unable to get basic facts right - Ms.Leela Ponnappa was never NSA, only deputy NSA in 2007 in the MMS regime.

So, according to this ex-official, basically Pakistan is to be accept as unpredictable and India has to compensate for it by allowing the pakis to set the agenda? How did such people even anywhere near positions like deputy NSA. These IFS types are complete disasters in NSA-type positions -- they seem to crawl when asked to bend. Talk about punching below one's weight!

One look at the paki RAPEs like Mehr Tarar, Ejaz Haider, Nadeem Paracha, Omar Qureishi and their ilk makes it pretty clear that pakis will continue to exhibit paki behavior...and the more this govt. tries to build bridges with the pakis, the more pakis of Indian origin like all the INC scum will have a field day pretending to be uber nationalist patriots, like they are doing right now.

[SSridhar]

There is therefore no question of Pakistan trying to do the same thing all over again and hoping the results would be different.

If that were true, Pakis would have not persisted with their shenanigans- LoC/IB firing, stoking terror, raising Cashmere internationally etc. They have seen the outcome and it has not been favourable to them most of the time, yet they persist in doing so.

Why?

Governments were different, including Vajpayee's.

[SSridhar]

Strategic shift - Edit, DT

Pakistan’s overtures to Russia signal a new chapter is brewing in Pakistan’s foreign relations with the US, with the historically fluctuating dynamic set to cool off. Since 2001, the US has been in a reluctant, combustible but, from its viewpoint, necessary close alliance with Pakistan in the US-led War on Terror. The lack of trust on both sides that characterized this alliance of convenience has come to the fore as the US no longer needs to keep a close handle on South and Central Asian affairs given its impending retreat from both Afghanistan and Iraq. Unencumbered by the need to have a close ally in the region, the US will put this volatile relationship on the back burner. The primary cause for this perpetual state of mistrust has been Pakistan’s view of the Taliban and assorted militant organizations as an asset to its foreign policy ambitions, given the role the Pakistani state had in the latter’s creation. This duality in its War on Terror policy was always only barely tolerated and now in line with the pressure from its Congress, the US administration can afford to threaten withholding a considerable amount of money it owes to Pakistan as part of the compensatory Coalition Support Fund, for not being fully sincere in combating all groups of militants. The writing on the wall is clear for Pakistan — the joyride is over and new alliances are needed for Pakistan to pursue its interests.

Russia and China are both wise to the tectonic shift underway due to the US’s retreat from the region. The region has been left in a veritable mess. The Afghan war, far from being finished, has left the country in a more precarious position than before, and the Gulf suffers from instability. Not only is it in the interests of these two great powers to have stability and development in their southern region, the significant clout a geographically connected Eurasian nexus of countries with large landmass and larger populations will have is not lost on anyone. Hence the wooing of both Pakistan and India by Russia and China, both wary of the US’s attempts to contain their influence. Pakistan for its part needs a constant supply of foreign assistance. The Russian commitment to build a lengthy gas pipeline and the China Pakistan Economic Corridor both reveal the benefits it can get out of this triangular arrangement. The military establishment is also happy with this arrangement since this guarantees a constant stream of new weapons technology. While it cannot be truthfully claimed that Pakistan-US relations will ever completely collapse, given their history, it makes sense for Pakistan to forge new alliances and learn to live with the new global permutations. *

[KLNMurthy]

...

Suhasini Haider seems to be unable to get basic facts right - Ms.Leela Ponnappa was never NSA, only deputy NSA in 2007 in the MMS regime.

So, according to this ex-official, basically Pakistan is to be accept as unpredictable and India has to compensate for it by allowing the pakis to set the agenda? How did such people even anywhere near positions like deputy NSA. These IFS types are complete disasters in NSA-type positions -- they seem to crawl when asked to bend. Talk about punching below one's weight!

One look at the paki RAPEs like Mehr Tarar, Ejaz Haider, Nadeem Paracha, Omar Qureishi and their ilk makes it pretty clear that pakis will continue to exhibit paki behavior...and the more this govt. tries to build bridges with the pakis, the more pakis of Indian origin like all the INC scum will have a field day pretending to be uber nationalist patriots, like they are doing right now.

I don't know about other people's experience, but I have seen that this type of "conflict-resolution" approach is very much favored in Indian family and social circles:

Two brothers (say) are in conflict--brother A is quite unreasonable but also more aggressive and noisy. B's case is stronger, and he has the reputation of being the more reasonable and mild-mannered one. But when B had had enough of A's bullying and pushes back, leading to a startled and angry A to turn up his volume of noise, elders/authority figures will admonish B, not A: "A is anyway a rogue, we thought you, B knew better. Now why are you creating nuisance, just like A? You better shut up and just let A have what he is demanding."

The intention of the elders is not to do justice or teach the kids A and B to be better persons. It is to gain some temporary peace and quiet for themselves, without having to spend the mental energy figuring out how to solve the problem in the interest of right and wrong.

Almost all the "experts ", Indian or foreign, who advise India to do this and that with Pakistan, just want the paki nuisance to stop, if only for the moment. The easiest way to do that is to put pressure on the reasonable party, especially if he feels an obligation to keep up his "good name" as a reasonable party. Almost no one is interested in getting to the bottom of the problem, identify what constitutes a good and feasible solution, and spend the resources required for the same.

[KLNMurthy]

...
Governments were different, including Vajpayee's.

Pakis will fight back, and not just with terrorism and dossiers.

An expected play for pakistan is to undermine GOI and Modi personally, as much as possible. So as to either get rid of Modi altogether or to at least keep him occupied.

I would expect more paki involvement with Teesta Setalvad, Kejriwal, Owaisi brothers etc., along with mobilizing ARoy, PMisra, Angana C, Vinay Lal, and various "religious freedom " outfits and NGOs. We will see a return to the 2003-2012 period in the War On Modi, with full pakistani engagement. They will also try very hard to expand and exploit real or imaginary fissures in BJP and parivar.

[Kashi]

Pakis will fight back, and not just with terrorism and dossiers.

An expected play for pakistan is to undermine GOI and Modi personally, as much as possible. So as to either get rid of Modi altogether or to at least keep him occupied.

I would expect more paki involvement with Teesta Setalvad, Kejriwal, Owaisi brothers etc., along with mobilizing ARoy, PMisra, Angana C, Vinay Lal, and various "religious freedom " outfits and NGOs. We will see a return to the 2003-2012 period in the War On Modi, with full pakistani engagement. They will also try very hard to expand and exploit real or imaginary fissures in BJP and parivar.

No doubt about it, they wouldn't be Pakis if they did not.

However, as deluded as they are, they are aware that they cannot engage and activate all the elements that you listed on their own. Of course, they will go all out to activate their tanzeems and their affiliates in India- IM, DM, SIMI, sleepers etc...may even "lean on" Dawood to facilitate another 26/11 and then sacrifice him in the end after shifting the entire blame.

But to substantially sway the likes of ARoy, PMisra et al, they'll need the Unkil and Aunty to step in big time. Since that is the baton that conducts this opera.

They may attempt to strike a deal with Unkil- unleash these dogs of war in exchange for "Afghan stability" and a few other Afghan Taliban assets.

Pak watchers will have plenty of tea leaves to read in the coming days.
Another Mumbai-like attack

[SSridhar]

After NSA-level talks fiasco, military talk in doldrums - PTI

After the cancellation of NSA-level talks, proposed meetings between top military officials of India and Pakistan are now unlikely, a media report said today.

Pakistan cancelled the talks on Saturday after India clearly said that it would not allow a meeting with Kashmiri separatist leaders and talks will only focus on terrorism.

The Express Tribune said that with the NSA talks called off due to differences over the agenda as well as Pakistan's invitation to Kashmiri Hurriyat leaders, the meetings between Director General Military Operations (DGMOs) as well as heads of Pakistan Rangers and Border Security Force are uncertain.

The paper quoted an official as saying that the Ufa agreement has now become "controversial" and "irrelevant" as a result of cancellation of the NSA-level talks.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi in their meeting in the Russian city of Ufa last month had agreed on meetings between DGMOs and heads of Pakistan Rangers and BSF.

India wanted the two meetings before the NSA-level talks but Islamabad proposed September 6 for the meeting between the heads of Rangers and BSF, which would be followed by the DGMOs' meeting.{Clearly, Pakistan had a game plan. It is obvious that it did not want the NSA-level meeting to take place. It was planning for its failure from the beginning and that was why the Rangers-BSF & DGMO meetings were pushed by it to beyond Aug, 23}

[gakakkad]

it is in Indic neuj channels that , when shortcut announced the cancellation of talks , there were crackers busted in LOC and a minor celebration of sorts...perhaps they know that they are closer to their 72 than ever before...

[A_Gupta]

India should allow Hurriyat at the DGMOs meeting

[SSridhar]

Nuclear power Pakistan knows to defend itself: Sartaj Aziz

That should have come from the military via Sartaj Aziz.

Holding that as a nuclear-armed country, Pakistan knew how to defend itself, Sartaj Aziz, the prime minister's advisor on foreign affairs and national security, has accused India of acting like a regional superpower, a media report said on Monday.

"(Prime Minister Narendra) Modi's India acts as if they are a regional superpower; we are a nuclear-armed country and we know how to defend ourselves," Dawn on Monday quoted Aziz saying a day earlier.

"We also have evidence of Indian agency RAW's involvement in fuelling terrorism in Pakistan," Aziz said, adding that while Pakistan has evidence of Indian involvement in terrorism, India on the other hand only has propaganda against Pakistan.

"Propaganda against Pakistan is more important for the Indians, rather than giving us evidence," the adviser stated.

Aziz also said that India wants normalisation on its own terms; it would like to talk about trade and connectivity but not much else.

"If Kashmir is not an issue for India, why have stationed 700,000 troops in Kashmir," he asked

Aziz also stated that India should hold a referendum in Kashmir, and the people would decide their own fate.

"India should realise after the current episode that their tactics are not working, and they need to be sincere about dialogue with Pakistan," added Aziz.

[Arjun]

I am a little baffled at the constant provocation emanating from Pakistan. It seems to indicate that the promised $46 Bn under the much-fabled CPEC may have already gone up in smoke (perhaps even prior to today's meltdown in Chinese markets)...Why would any sane country willfully put massive incoming FDI in danger by sabre-rattling, border provocations, focus on Kashmir etc? Surely even the fleindly dlagon would be wary about sinking money into assets where the the country is intent on provoking war where these same assets could be under threat.

On the other hand, their actions seem to square more with a realization that their own FDI is likely to remain negligible (notwithstandinng all grand announcements relating to CPEC) but they don't want the economic differential with India to continue to balloon as has occured over the last decade and hence the wanton provocation with perhaps the vain goal of deterring investment into India.

[A_Gupta]

How do the current masters of Pakistan remain in power without this constant barrage?

[Shaktimaan]

Why are we dhoti shivering about Pakis activating their terror modules? Their terror modules are 100% active anyway. Our Army and Police forces are keeping them at bay every day.

On the other hand, The Person We Admire is now free to do what he wants...

[Chandragupta]

Nuclear power Pakistan knows to defend itself: Sartaj Aziz

That should have come from the military via Sartaj Aziz.

Holding that as a nuclear-armed country, Pakistan knew how to defend itself, Sartaj Aziz, the prime minister's advisor on foreign affairs and national security, has accused India of acting like a regional superpower, a media report said on Monday.

"(Prime Minister Narendra) Modi's India acts as if they are a regional superpower; we are a nuclear-armed country and we know how to defend ourselves," Dawn on Monday quoted Aziz saying a day earlier.

"We also have evidence of Indian agency RAW's involvement in fuelling terrorism in Pakistan," Aziz said, adding that while Pakistan has evidence of Indian involvement in terrorism, India on the other hand only has propaganda against Pakistan.

"Propaganda against Pakistan is more important for the Indians, rather than giving us evidence," the adviser stated.

Aziz also said that India wants normalisation on its own terms; it would like to talk about trade and connectivity but not much else.

"If Kashmir is not an issue for India, why have stationed 700,000 troops in Kashmir," he asked

Aziz also stated that India should hold a referendum in Kashmir, and the people would decide their own fate.

"India should realise after the current episode that their tactics are not working, and they need to be sincere about dialogue with Pakistan," added Aziz.

With reactions like these, I sometimes doubt whether Pakistanis even have nukes or not. Why would a confident nuclear power do a nanga dance like this? In real life, if you there's a person who keeps poking you and says don't hit me back I have a bazooka, keeps on poking you and then you bitchslap him & he says don't bitchslap me again or I will shoot my bazooka, he pokes you again, this time you slap him, kick him, throw him on the floor & put your boot on his neck, he says let me go or I'll shoot my bazooka, you let him go & then he starts the same thing again. Doesn't that mean that he doesn't really have it & he's really just mentally retarded, that's all?!

[A_Gupta]

These statements by Sartaj Aziz, and similar ones, are most directed to the audience in Pakistan. They are not really meant for anyone who wears a dhoti or sari. "We are a nuclear-armed country" is their secular form of saying "I'm the uber-pious Muslim" (i.e., you have to listen to me, and agree with me, I'm in charge).

PS: consider Pakistan's blasphemy laws. They cannot even talk about re-examining the blasphemy law. This is not something that any external force foisted upon them; this is entirely their own doing. I.e., we see the operation of extreme internal political compulsions driving Pakistani behavior - in this case, non-debate about their blasphemy laws.

When Pakistan says "we are a nuclear-armed nation, blah, blah, blah", it certainly earns some negative marks with their 3.5 friends, who would probably prefer Pakistan maintain an Israel-like profile. Some of it is no doubt driven by their thinking about India. But some component of it is internal political compulsions.

Another way of thinking about it is -- almost all of the male dominance displays among baboons is internally directed to the troop, it is not meant to impress other species, leopards or lemurs. One might ask, isn't India simply another bigger, badder troop of baboons? My answer is - probably not; to Pakistanis, Indians are not a fellow baboon troop, merely bigger; they are some other species, whether sheep or lions.

[Gagan]

The status of Pakistan's nuclear weapons program is well known.
It is a bit of a non issue at its current status.

What is of concern is them aquring a Pu based option in the future