Indian Space Programme Discussion

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Singha
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Singha » 28 Aug 2015 12:02

http://spaceflightnow.com/tracking/launchlog.html

if we count it, China has made 16 long march launches in the last one year alone, ranging from long march2 to march4. the initial launch of long march6 is next week.
the march6 is a Pslv type vehicle, 1000kg into polar orbit.

our gslv mk3 specs match that of the heaviest elements of their long march family at present around 5t to GTO.

their new long march5 however is targeting 14t to GTO to match the heavy models of angara, ariane6, delta4....I am not sure how much of a market there is at the heaviest end of the market unless one is building up space stations or launching manned missions with heavy capsules.

for the most part I imagine a 6t to GTO might be useful for volume use. the really heavy ELINT and IMINT sats with orbit changing fuel supplies seem to occupy 700km orbits and the GSLV mk3 would be capable to tackling 8t payloads. smaller ofek SAR sats, GPS sats are much lighter but mk3 could take up multiples in one shot.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby JTull » 28 Aug 2015 13:07

disha wrote:I still feel ISRO should continue research and development of make the CE 7.5 into CE 25 staged combustion into a monster like the SSME. Also a multi-restartable cryogenic engine is needed. Astute observers would have noted that US, Russia, Japan, ESA and India only have the staged combustion engine.


That in itself will require a completely new rocket variant as first/second stages will need to carry that much extra propellant of CUS.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Singha » 28 Aug 2015 13:22

I am not sure if its reality of a fantasy by NASAs new SLS design of heavy launch vehicle claims to use the SSME RS25 engine in pack config in its 1st stage, and a modified shuttle fuel tank as the main part of the 1st stage.

its 1st stage mass is a massive 979tons and 8.4m diameter per wiki...its heavy config looks bigger than the SaturnV even

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System

target is 100-130 tons to LEO.

but I suppose a smaller config could easily loft gigantic 30tons IMINT telescope sats into MEO.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 28 Aug 2015 15:12

Singha wrote:found this on spacenews.com in gslv launch report. what does it mean?

With the advent of electric propulsion aboard commercial telecommunications satellites for both in-orbit station-keeping and orbit-raising to final geostationary position, the future market for a 2,000-kilogram-class vehicle has greatly improved. - See more at: http://spacenews.com/successful-indian- ... NgxqR.dpuf

GSAT-6 has a lift-off mass of 2117 kg. Of this, propellants weigh 1132 kg and the dry mass of the satellite is [just] 985 kg. Since electric propulsion would significantly increase dry mass and thereby increase the useful payload weight and since it would also significantly improve the lifetime of the satellite, the 2T class satellite could be as good as a 4T class satellite.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Singha » 28 Aug 2015 16:09

seems like boeing is the market leader and Astrium(EU) not too far behind.
its already being used in some sats for station keeping
but going all-electric means the orbit raising will take 6 months rather than 2 weeks which might not be so hot commercially
http://spacenews.com/35894electric-prop ... -the-rage/

benefit is greater payload weight and longer satellite life.

have any of our sats used this technology yet?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 28 Aug 2015 17:23

the mil component,

GSAT to bolster Army’s rapid strike capability

Ajay Banerjee

Tribune News Service

New Delhi, August 27
GSAT-6, the military satellite launched today, will allow the Army to ramp up the speed and accuracy of its striking capabilities, besides providing a much clearer real-time battlefield picture.

It will allow a connection among all Army regiments for seamless real-time flow of two-way information, data, videos and even transmission of images captured through night-vision cameras.

In other words, it will connect the last of the soldiers with his commander. A mix of handheld devices and laptops will serve as nodal points. The footprint of the satellite is pan-India, sources say.

Army’s accuracy in undertaking strikes will be enhanced due to seamless integration with attack helicopters and fighter jets of the Indian Air Force.

There will be real-time data and video sharing among tanks on the ground, IAF aircraft in the sky and advancing infantrymen. Commanders on the field and Generals sitting in war-rooms will be seeing the same live pictures as the entire battlefield will be connected seamlessly.

The data will be beamed across laptops using a mix of satellites and radio communication. All this will be done at a very high encryption level so as to prevent snooping.

In August 2013, India launched GSAT-7 (or Rukmini), its first military satellite to keep an eye on the Indian Ocean and Malacca.

Bengaluru: ISRO's GSLV (geosynchronous launch vehicle) fitted with an indigenous cryogenic engine today successfully put the two tonne-class GSAT-6 satellite (2,117 kg) in a geostationary transfer orbit (GTO), 35,000 km above the sea level.

Today's GSLV-D6 launch followed the successful launch in January last year of GSLV-D5 with a made-in-India cryogenic upper stage (CUS) engine that put the 1,860-kg GSAT-14 in the orbit. That was ISRO's first success with a locally made CUS after years of struggle to perfect the technology.

Addressing colleagues at the ISRO spaceport in Sriharikota after the launch, ISRO chief Kiran Kumar said, "It has been proved that the successful launch of GSLV-D5 last year was not a fluke." (with inputs from Shubhadeep Choudhury)

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SwamyG » 28 Aug 2015 18:38

belated congratulations to all involved.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby hnair » 28 Aug 2015 18:52

disha, for a largish engine, the gas generator/expander ones are, I believe, easier for current Indian industry levels. Hence the choices for MkIII. At some point, we will have a family based on the current CUSP and hopefully, we will retrofit to MKIIIs. That CUSP design is not going away, anytime soon. IIRC, the yak-herder talked a few years ago, about chamber pressures of SSME are like a whopping 3 or 4 times ours. And that is an actually reusable engine :shock: We have room for growth.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Singha » 28 Aug 2015 19:19

for the new nasa thing they will reuse those SSME that are left, then move to a cheaper single-use model from the gold-std.

i think some 'value engineering' is in order to make both the PSLV and GSLV smaller, lighter and more efficient and cost effective to make it possible to do some 10-15 launches per annum like the chinese are doing. our rockets have still not reached the 4m diameter the Ariane had reached in the 1980s.

for example the Ariane4, the workhorse and 113 succesful launches had 3.8 m diameter and was able to loft 4T to GTO
was longer than our GSLV by around 10m

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 28 Aug 2015 19:31

Singha wrote:for the new nasa thing they will reuse those SSME that are left, then move to a cheaper single-use model from the gold-std.

i think some 'value engineering' is in order to make both the PSLV and GSLV smaller, lighter and more efficient and cost effective to make it possible to do some 10-15 launches per annum like the chinese are doing. our rockets have still not reached the 4m diameter the Ariane had reached in the 1980s.

for example the Ariane4, the workhorse and 113 succesful launches had 3.8 m diameter and was able to loft 4T to GTO
was longer than our GSLV by around 10m


The issue regarding GSLV is they are still in the optimization phase and will take time. GSLV Mk 2 was always an interim measure and the real launchers which will be focused on would by Mk 3 and ULMV.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby hnair » 28 Aug 2015 19:53

Singha, the chinese model is not suitable for India, with our throttleable budgets et al. The chinese model suits their "must show results to people for legitimacy" Han-class SSBN model and the monthly launches are good on CCTV breaking news tickers. Though their throw weight capabilities are a good things

If at all we want to go the mass production way, we need to take a look at the dour-faced soviet era goblins that run the Soyuz program. At 1500+ launches, they are still standing tall amidst ruins of USSR. Heck, khan needed their help in ISS, when STS was shut down. I heard these magical goblins are the worst form of bean-counters in the universe and everything that gets launched, goes through a wringer, before the goblins barely quiver their noses as a "aye". No Ekranoplane type extravaganzas for these chappies and no "single-chamber after solving flame-stabilization" programs for these silent operators. Only launchers that rattle consistently to orbit, like an old KSRTC bus on a monsoon night. Bonejarring and ugly as sin, but trustworthy.

Anyways, despite all the Make in India PR releases, folks like L&T, Godrej-Boyce, Walchandnagar (to name a few) are not yet ready for a massive uptick. Capital raising from markets probably need more interest in the program.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby dinesh_kimar » 28 Aug 2015 20:15

In future, going to tweak CE 7.5 to 90 KN. Also, developing CE 20 for 200 +/- 20 KN.
So, 2-3 parallel projects on cryo going on right now. Source? Some blogs. Also, Cheen devlpmt of cryo engines some research papers avbl online. Work started in 1970s!!

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Singha » 28 Aug 2015 20:44

Cheen is launching a lot of military says. Building redundancies up there, playing with vulture droid says to rattle the bars of khans cage...they are having fun

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 28 Aug 2015 21:47

sum wrote:
Mort Walker wrote: The TSPA rats can't plan another Mumbai attack via satellite phone to terrorists on fishing trawlers.

Do we have sat phone decrypting capabilities to be able to make sense of the captured intercepts?

cant believe you are asking a question whose answer no knowledgeable person would be in a position to provide. :wink:

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby saje » 28 Aug 2015 22:14

We don't seem to be having problems building engines for missiles & space rockets, but only for jet engines we are struggling. I think we've assigned jet engine development to the wrong set of people. ISRO & DRDO seem to have more motivated people and better managed teams no doubt.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby disha » 28 Aug 2015 22:50

saje wrote:We don't seem to be having problems building engines for missiles & space rockets, but only for jet engines we are struggling. I think we've assigned jet engine development to the wrong set of people. ISRO & DRDO seem to have more motivated people and better managed teams no doubt.


Saje'ji - wrong comparison. Rocket engines are one through., jet engines are 1000x reusable.

If you noticed, the cryogenic engine (and the stage) had to work for some 10-12 minutes only. After that it was discarded. I am sure India has a technology *currently* that will allow it to give more than the required thrust for 20 minutes and may go bust after that. That is 2x than the rocket engine :P

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SaiK » 28 Aug 2015 23:01

but has IA acquired/developed the devices/wearables (remote ops) to utilize the GSAT6 infrastructure? I am not talking about bigO sat receivers, but for an 'iron man'-ish next gen soldier say an f-insas video capture can be directly feed in to command post, and commander could independently guide a soldier from remote, with full view from his head-cap wide view night-vision camera.. very useful for strike ops.

buddy sharing and guidance controlled CnC via sat com can be devastating for enemy. what you see in the remote is what i can see too. this can be slowly replaced with robots. a bunch of them can loiter and integrate along the yellow seas of NE and NW sectors. [it can be joint air and land system integration]

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Gagan » 29 Aug 2015 04:26

Saar, just comparing the RS-25 (Space shuttle engine) with the CE 7.5 and CE 20

Thrust:
RS-25: 2000 kN
CE 7.5: 75 kN
CE 20: 200 kN

RD 180: 4000 kN (Roosi semi cryo badshah)
That space shuttle engine powers the 1st stage of the very heavy raakit.
ISRO I don't think will be wasteful and develop a full cryo 1st stage onlee.
They are going the SDRE way and developing a Semi Cryo - cheap and best onlee.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby hnair » 29 Aug 2015 07:54

:D Gagan, the ones to do side-side compare are with the upperstage-class LOX/LOH engines of khan and others. So RL-10s not RS-25. RL-10 started off with 66KN and went upto 100+ KN. Khan uses a cluster of two or a single one, depending on the Centaur stage's payload. So for twin cluster, they give 200+ KN like our CE 20. And if one conks off, the other can seemingly ramp up to nearly 200KN. Extremely dependable, can be re-lit in deep space etc due to evolutionary advances since 1950s.

HM7 is the european equivalent and is also around CE 7.5 range. The upcoming Vinci is the one which will be in CE 20 class engine. Again, with relit option, which I think CE 20 might not have. Yet

Added later: Our tech path seem to be more like the europeans. Technically competent but lower budgets, hard nosed decisions and zero "nashunal pride" fundas, other than a few FB posts

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Hiten » 29 Aug 2015 11:42

people associated with it recalling the Satellite Instructional Television Experiment [SITE] program


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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby sooraj » 29 Aug 2015 14:18

Wikileaks

Viewing cable 07KYIV2245, UKRAINE: APPEAL FOR USG FORBEARANCE ON INDIA SPACE

If you are new to these pages, please read an introduction on the structure of a cable as well as how to discuss them with others. See also the FAQs


Reference ID

Created

Classification

Origin

07KYIV2245 2007-09-07 13:31 CONFIDENTIAL Embassy Kyiv
VZCZCXRO1258
PP RUEHDBU
DE RUEHKV #2245/01 2501331
ZNY CCCCC ZZH
P 071331Z SEP 07
FM AMEMBASSY KYIV
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 3645
INFO RUEHNE/AMEMBASSY NEW DELHI PRIORITY 0001
RUCNCIS/CIS COLLECTIVE
RUEHZG/NATO EU COLLECTIVE
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 KYIV 002245

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

DEPT ALSO FOR SCA/INS, EUR/UMB, EUR/PRA, AND ISN/MTR

E.O. 12958: DECL: 09/07/2017
TAGS: PARM ETTC MTCRE TSPA PREL IN UP
SUBJECT: UKRAINE: APPEAL FOR USG FORBEARANCE ON INDIA SPACE
PROGRAM COOPERATION

Classified By: Political Counselor Kent Logsdon for reasons 1.4(b,d)

¶1. (C) This is a request for guidance. Request that the
Department provide the U.S. position regarding Ukraine
company Yuzhnoye's contract to prepare blueprints for a
semi-cryogenic, liquid-oxygen/kerosene-fueled rocket engine
for the Indian Space Research Organization, as detailed
below, and especially whether the U.S. would have any
objections to fulfillment of the contract.

¶2. (U) We met September 5 with National Space Agency of
Ukraine (NSAU) Deputy Director General Eduard Kuznetsov at
Ukrainian request. He was joined by NSAU Division Director
Ihor Chuprin; NSAU International Cooperation Department
Deputy Director Volodymyr Fedotov; Yuzhnoye Construction
Bureau Department Director for Marketing, Export Control, and
Licensing Hennadiy Varyanychko; and MFA Arms Control and
Military Technical Cooperation Counselor Oleh Belokolos.
Kuznetsov began his presentation by stressing Ukraine's
scrupulous observance of Missile Technology Control Regime
(MTCR) requirements. Ukraine's strict adherence to MTCR had
led the Ukrainian government to cancel Pavlohrad Chemical
Plant's export license to provide mixers to Cyano Chemisive
Systems of India. As a result, Cyano Chemisive Systems sued
Pavlohrad Chemical Plant, and Pavlohrad Chemical was blocked
from conducting business in India for a 7-year period, losing
numerous potential business opportunities. Furthermore,
Pavlohrad Chemical's competitors in the tender, U.S.
companies Mayers and Thiokol, had stepped in to secure
Pavlohrad Chemical's contract.

¶3. (SBU) With this painful experience and in the spirit of
openness, Kuznetsov continued, NSAU was sharing the details
of a contract between Yuzhnoye and the Indian Space Research
Organization (INSRO) for Yuzhnoye to supply plans and
technical specifications for the construction of a
semi-cryogenic, liquid-fuel rocket engine. Realizing the
MTCR sensitivities of the contract, Kuznetsov stressed the
number of safeguards that the Ukrainian government had built
into the contract, as detailed in the non-paper in para 5.

¶4. (C) In a conversation after the meeting, Varyanychko
specified that the contract was for delivery of blueprints
for the rocket engine that ISRO would use to build its own
engine; Ukrainian companies simply did not have the
capability actually to construct the engine themselves. He
stressed that the information would allow ISRO to build only
one model of engine and reiterated the point that Yuzhnoye
would not provide any engineering or technical details on how
the plans had been developed. Belokolos noted that, if
Ukraine lost the contract, Russian companies would step in
and warned that the U.S.-Ukraine relationship would be very
negatively affected if the public and government officials
were to learn that the U.S. had prevented the deal from going
through. Varyanychko said the State Export Control Service
had earlier authorized a license to negotiate the deal, but
was now holding up the export license to fulfill the
contract. He appealed for a speedy and positive U.S.
response.

¶5. (SBU) Begin text of Ukrainian non-paper.

On the cooperation between Ukraine and the Republic of India

In the framework of Ukraine-US bilateral cooperation in the
sphere of nonproliferation of WMD and its delivery systems,
and referring to the request of the U.S. Side at the regular
meeting of the Ukraine - US Nonproliferation and Export
Control Working Group (June 26-27, 2007, Kyiv, Ukraine), we
would like to provide you with the following information
about the cooperation between Ukraine and the Republic of
India in the space and rocket sphere.

-- Cooperation between Ukraine and India in the space and
rocket sphere is based on the Framework Agreement between the
Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine and the Government of the
Republic of India of June 2, 2005 aimed at "expanding
peaceful use of outer space, preserving outer space open for
broad international peaceful cooperation." The
above-mentioned Framework Agreement emphasizes strict
adherence of the Parties to the provisions of the Treaty on
Principles Governing the Activities of States in the
Exploration and Use of Outer Space Including the Moon and
Other Celestial Bodies of January 10, 1967, of other
multilateral treaties and agreements on exploration and use
of outer space joined by the both Parties.

-- The cooperation between Ukraine and the Republic of India

KYIV 00002245 002 OF 003


in the sphere of peaceful use of outer space will be
conducted in full compliance with the requirements of the
international export control regimes, in particular, the
requirements of the Missile Technology Control Regime, with
Ukraine's international obligations, as well as under the
condition that the Indian Side will provide Ukraine
appropriate government assurances of non-proliferation of
missile technologies and their use for peaceful purposes only.

-- In the framework of the Agreement, Ukraine and India are
planning to develop their cooperation in the sphere of space
exploration and peaceful use of outer space strictly adhering
to their international obligations, in particular, in the
sphere of production of space transport systems and
conducting special scientific researches for assembling,
producing, launching, operating and using the launch
vehicles, satellites and other space systems, as it is stated
in the corresponding paragraphs of the Article 3 of the
Framework Agreement.

-- In order to ensure the transparency of Ukraine-India
cooperation in space sphere, the text of the Agreement is put
up on the official web-page of the National Space Agency of
Ukraine (NSAU).

-- The first concrete step in Ukraine-India cooperation in
space sphere was the November 2006 contract for the
development of semi-cryogenic liquid-propellant rocket engine
using the "liquid oxygen-kerosene" components for the Indian
Side (Indian Space Research Organization).

-- The goods technical documentation for the production of
the concrete semi-cryogenic liquid-propellant rocket engine
for the space rocket-carrier which are to be transferred to
the Indian Side falls under the Category I items of the MTCR
Control Lists.

-- Under above-mentioned contract it is envisaged to supply
to the Indian Space Research Organization the rocket engine
technical documentation. In order to meet the requirements
of the Missile Technology Control Regime, the Government of
India provided appropriate assurances (International Import
Certificate and the End-User Certificate) stipulating that
the items under this contract will be used for peaceful
purpose only.

-- In addition, the contract specifies the following
obligations of the Indian Side:

¶1. The Indian Space Research Organization is the importer
and the end-user of the transferred goods.

¶2. The received goods will be used for the peaceful
exploration of outer space only; the data will not be copied,
modified, upgraded, re-exported or transferred to the third
side without the permission of the State Enterprise "Yuzhnoe
Construction Bureau" and the specially authorized body of the
executive power of Ukraine on state export control issues;

¶3. The use of the goods for military purposes or for the
creation of the weapons of mass destruction is ruled out;

¶4. The Ukrainian authorized bodies will have a right to
conduct inspections verifying the correct use of goods for
declared purposes.

¶5. The contract will come into force only after the
appropriate Ukrainian state authorities will have provided
the Republic of India with all necessary permissions.

-- It is necessary to add, that the contract does not foresee
the delivering to the Indian Side the calculation methods
used during the engine development and the appropriate
software.

-- At the same time, the world-wide experience in the
construction of intercontinental ballistic missiles shows
that the use of engines with low-boiling fuel components in
modern strategic missile weapons is not practical.
Currently, the Ukrainian Side has all reasons to consider the
semi-cryogenic liquid-fuel rocket engine created under the
concluded contract as the one to be used for peaceful space
purpose only.

End text.

¶6. (U) Visit Embassy Kyiv's classified website:
www.state.sgov.gov/p/eur/kiev.

KYIV 00002245 003 OF 003


Taylor

kit
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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby kit » 29 Aug 2015 15:41

Interesting .. so is the Ukraine involved in the semi cryo development at all ?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Aug 2015 16:15

Ukraine's strict adherence to MTCR had
led the Ukrainian government to cancel Pavlohrad Chemical
Plant's export license to provide mixers to Cyano Chemisive
Systems of India. As a result, Cyano Chemisive Systems sued
Pavlohrad Chemical Plant, and Pavlohrad Chemical was blocked
from conducting business in India for a 7-year period, losing
numerous potential business opportunities. Furthermore,
Pavlohrad Chemical's competitors in the tender, U.S.
companies Mayers and Thiokol, had stepped in to secure
Pavlohrad Chemical's contract.

:rotfl: talk about being a good boy

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_22539 » 29 Aug 2015 16:18

^Seems like we are not the only ones suckered by the good boy lollipop.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 29 Aug 2015 16:40

ISRO performs first orbit raising operation of GSAT-6
After successful launch of GSAT-6, the country’s latest communication satellite into a geosynchronous transfer orbit, the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) on Saturday said it has performed the first orbit raising of the satellite.

“First orbit raising operation of GSAT-6 was successfully completed by firing the Apogee Motor for 3385 seconds at 08:35 hrs IST on August 28,” ISRO said.

Realised orbit is 8,408 km (perigee height) by 35,708 km (apogee height) with an inclination of 7.5 degree and an orbital period of 13 hours, 15 minutes and 24 sec, it said.

The ISRO on Thursday had successfully launched GSAT-6, having an indigenous cryogenic engine, onboard the GSLV-D6 rocket from the spaceport at Sriharikota.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 29 Aug 2015 16:47

ISRO ‏@isro 11h11 hours ago
First orbit raising operation of GSAT-6 was successfully completed by firing the Apogee Motor for 3385 seconds at 08:35hr IST on Aug 28

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Aug 2015 16:52

i used to think such motors were fired for few secs looking at movies, 1 hr sure is a long burn....are these apogee motors solid fuel based or liquid fuel and how much thrust? do we make them inhouse? are the same motors used for periodic station keeping manouvers in final orbit?

I must admit my heart was in my mouth when telemetry blinking light looked a bit unusual at 2nd stage and looking at the Mt everest type climb graph towards the end of the launch mission.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 29 Aug 2015 17:08

LAM is indigenous

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 29 Aug 2015 17:20

Singha wrote:i used to think such motors were fired for few secs looking at movies, 1 hr sure is a long burn....are these apogee motors solid fuel based or liquid fuel and how much thrust?

Those short-firing ones are steering or attitude-control rockets. The LAM has to raise the perigee from ~200 Kms to ~36000 Kms to circularize the orbit. They have to be fired at the apogee point. That plus the fact they cannot be very powerful make them fire for longer durations. ISRO's LAMs have traditionally been 440N thrust ones. The steering rockets are typically 20 or 30N. Both use earth-storable liquids.

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2nd ORM for GSAT-6

Postby SSSalvi » 29 Aug 2015 19:09

As mentioned in previous posts :

Injectiion orbit:
168 km * 35,939 km , Inclination of 20.01 deg

=====

First orbit raising operation of GSAT-6 was successfully completed by firing the Apogee Motor for 3385 seconds at 08:35hr IST on Aug 28, 2015.

Realised orbit 8,408 km * 35,708 km, inclination of 7.5 degree

=====

Now,

Second orbit raising operation of GSAT-6 was successfully completed by firing the Apogee Motor for 2663 seconds at 11:10:53 hr IST on Aug 29, 2015.

Realised orbit is 26998 km * 35682 km, inclination of 0.115 degree.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Aug 2015 19:34

must be a whole lotta hard math involved in these firings to know when to fire and how long to get circular orbit with least fuel burn

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Aug 2015 19:37

is this LAM thing similar to what is used behind the RV of 3-stage ICBMs to hugely extend the range of the RV after the 3rd stage motor has burned out and separated away?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 29 Aug 2015 19:59

Tomorrow will be the real deal when they unfurl the antenna. That will be the really new event in this mission.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 29 Aug 2015 20:04

Singha wrote:must be a whole lotta hard math involved in these firings to know when to fire and how long to get circular orbit with least fuel burn


They have standardized these by now.Burn time etc would have standard computational algorithms and software would have been developed to feed the data and get the burn time etc.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 29 Aug 2015 20:10

In contrast to LAM how much thrust is available with all electric propulsion that it takes 6 months for similar orbit raising operations?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby member_28108 » 29 Aug 2015 20:19

These typically have thrusts in milliNewtons but have an Isp(Specfic Impulse) in the thousands as they can be fired continuously for a very long time.
India has developed these for station keeping.
For eg a Hall effect thruster has these specs
Specific impulse: 1,100–1,600 s
Thrust: 30–70 mN
The Vasimir engine has an Isp around 4000s

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 29 Aug 2015 20:28

The recently launched British DMC3 sats, their supposed sideward looking capability can be done by these electric thrusters alone?

Interplanetary travel is over many months, we waited for MOM to reach, so why doesn't ISRO try electric propulsion and prioritize on transponder nos?

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby Neela » 29 Aug 2015 20:42

hnair wrote:Added later: Our tech path seem to be more like the europeans. Technically competent but lower budgets, hard nosed decisions and zero "nashunal pride" fundas, other than a few FB posts

Getting into a race, like the moon landing, will force open up those wallets. That is guaranteed to hasten development and also generate a vast knowledge base from which a slew of products can be developed. RD180 ( from NK33) seems to be one such . Even the Brahmos has a similar history.
<sigh>
What do we have? A penny pinching govt, a spy scandal, a CAG breathing down the necks all the time, and a educated lot echoing 240 billion below poverty line garbage.

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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby KrishG » 29 Aug 2015 20:46

vasu raya wrote:The recently launched British DMC3 sats, their supposed sideward looking capability can be done by these electric thrusters alone?

Interplanetary travel is over many months, we waited for MOM to reach, so why doesn't ISRO try electric propulsion and prioritize on transponder nos?




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Re: Indian Space Programme Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 29 Aug 2015 21:03

^^^

Ah! GSAT-19 thank you


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