Indian Railways Thread

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 14 Sep 2015 16:48

^^For those who don't know, the Angadipuram temple that vsunder is referrring to is the Thirumanthankunnu Temple, or Thirumanthankunnilamma Ambalam (in Malayalam, which means the temple of the mother of Thirumanthankunnu, the name of place). The temple is very old and one feels it when visiting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tirumanthamkunnu_Temple

The temple area is dense and forested, and the view from behind is of jungle. At the hilltop itself where the temple is located, a sense of awe and foreboding is easily elicited, especially on an overcast day. Just next to the temple building itself, within the complex, there is a really ancient tree - also prayed to and revered by all. Little idols are installed within the grounds. The temple gives one a sense of intense religiosity, as worshippers flow through, and for my mother it is a very special place. She insists we go there whenever I'm in Kerala. I have some photographs somewhere.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 14 Sep 2015 18:13

I mentioned Madukkarai and the Thambis of Madras Regiment, I just posted this, cross-posting

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 2#p1900692

JEM: There is another well-known foreboding place associated with the Samudri Rajas, in North Malabar near the Ezhimala Naval academy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madayi_Kavu

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 14 Sep 2015 18:27

hnair wrote:Slowly, Rahul M-saar, ever so slowly....

vsunder-sir, those posts on railways are like, incredibly informative and personal. I did not know the two anglo-Indian writers had association with the railways, though I suspected Shree Bond to have some. Please do consider writing a non-fiction, with chapter upon chapter of free-flowing prose about this lifeline of India.

Could we include some of vsunder sir's writings in the SRR? While it may not be defence related directly, his posts shine a light on other aspects of life in our recent past, most of which in popular discourse is coloured by the 'roti-kapada-makaan' nonsense.

Sachin wrote:
hnair wrote: I did not know the two anglo-Indian writers had association with the railways, though I suspected Shree Bond to have some
H നായർ അവർകളേ . The Anglo-Indians as a community, I feel used to have a very strong relationship with the railways. <snip>
Anglo-Indians' Contributions to Indian Railways

Sachin saar beat me to it - when discussing Anglo-Indians' association with the railways, two things come to my mind: the Chennai suburb of Perambur (which to date has a large Anglo-Indian presence), and this excellent speech, by a former GM of Southern Railway, no less. He is also a railfan, to boot, and his writings were always welcomed with interest on IRFCA. Anyway, its an excellent read, especially the details about Brindavan express's punctuality, or how a brave loco pilot delivered a train safely into Erode Jn. before collapsing, till then just running on sheer will power.

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 14 Sep 2015 18:29

Received a mail that IR is starting trial of vaccum toilet similar to airlines. If kept clean and dry, this will actually bring in lot of families back to IR.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 14 Sep 2015 18:47

Sachin wrote:Yes, it takes ages for the assistant drivers to reach the level of "A Special Drivers". And all during this time, they have to be physically fit and especially have proper eye-sight etc. Have read that in case people have problems with their eye-sight, they would get moved to light duties like shunting etc. They would not lose their jobs, but better pay scales etc. would now go out of the window. Same applies for Guards as well. Years are spent on the cabooses of Goods trains, which does not have any proper facility including a light. Today these guards (and drivers) have walkie-talkies, but around 15 years back even that did not exist.

And there are many 'ghosts' rumoured to have been spotted by guards sitting by themselves at night in some isolated siding somewhere, truly scary.

Sachin wrote:Is there a YouTube link (or online version) available?

I found this on YT, they are showing the control office starting around 22:30 elapsed.

Sachin wrote: Perhaps CSTM may be one of the few areas where there is a centralised control system in place (and also has a huge automatic block territory). In many other areas, there exists a "Control" at the Divisional HQ, where "Section Controllers" do track the movement of trains. But they cannot actually change the signals, set points etc. These are still done by Station Masters of smaller stations or Cabin ASMs in bigger stations/junctions. All instructions are given on the "control phone" circuit.

Sachin saar, do they still use the walkie-talkie in the absolute block sections? I thought IR implemented some sort of section controlling located at important junctions with the RRI(?) panel control. Or is that applicable only to the junctions themselves? I understand all automatic block territory has centralized control, but thought the walkie-talkie/phone based system was done along with the old system of Neale's ball tokens.

This news video (in Tamil) shows a panel and an interview of a section controller near Chengalpattu, south of Chennai, in the Chengalpattu-Villupuram section (starting at 5:31 elapsed). I am not sure if this is an automatic block section, though (it's under the Chennai division of SR).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Sep 2015 19:16

my grandma's younger brother who is around 80 now, a giant of a man was a goods train guard before he became a teacher.
those days in north east frontier railway only MG was there and there were lot of forested and lonely stretches. sometimes the train would stop in middle of night for unknown reasons or if it ran over something...and it was his job to walk alone with a torch and check the train from back to front, signal the driver and be back in his guardhouse. pitch black forest all round teeming with animals.

I have always wondered why they cannot add a proper battery and dynamo like a passenger wagon, provide a bathroom, a small galley and atleast make his life a little comfortable. has the guard wagon changed at all over the years?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 14 Sep 2015 19:45

arshyam wrote:Sachin saar, do they still use the walkie-talkie in the absolute block sections?

Yes they do. The driver, the guards and stations all tune into the same channel/frequency. The sets in the stations are powerful VHF base stations, and have well placed antennas etc. The walkie-talkies are used to double check things, or pass non-critical messages. More like the SM informing that he is about to receive the train on certain road #, or he is about to take off the signals for a train. But no critical activity is carried out exclusively relying on wireless messages. The section controllers do not interact with the drivers or guards of the train; they interact with station masters and cabin ASMs only (and on phone).

I thought IR implemented some sort of section controlling located at important junctions with the RRI(?) panel control. Or is that applicable only to the junctions themselves?

Route Relay Interlocking (RRI) is only implemented at major junctions and terminus stations etc. And that too the route controlled by the RRI is just for that station/junction. We do not have a system where one control centre covers a large areas, like what they have in UK etc. The section controller still is the boss, he instructs the Station Master/Cabin ASM on what exactly should be done for a train. So in a busy station, the section controller can say that the train (which does not have a halt there), should be allowed to "run through". The Cabin ASM, or SM in charge of RRI with a flick of few buttons sets the route for the train to "run through".

I understand all automatic block territory has centralized control, but thought the walkie-talkie/phone based system was done along with the old system of Neale's ball tokens

Walkie Talkies/VHF sets are used for non-critical communication. Even in the "token less block system" (which replaced the Neale's ball token system), there is a phone in place. The block-instrument using which station master's confirm "Line clear" has a phone, which connects the two stations. So when a train has to be sent out, the SM presses a plunger on his block instrument, which rings a bell in the station ahead. The SM there picks up the phone, can speak with the other chap before he gives the "Line clear" on the block instrument. But off-course before he does that, he also checks with the section controller on another phone to take his concurrence.

Singha wrote:has the guard wagon changed at all over the years?

Not much. But heard there are plans to give some comforts like a small battery operated light in the caboose etc.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 14 Sep 2015 19:52

Sachin wrote:
arshyam wrote:Sachin saar, do they still use the walkie-talkie in the absolute block sections?
Yes they do. The driver, the guards and stations all tune into the same channel/frequency. The sets in the stations are powerful VHF base stations, and have well placed antennas etc. The walkie-talkies are used to double check things, or pass non-critical messages. More like the SM informing that he is about to receive the train on certain road #, or he is about to take off the signals for a train. But no critical activity is carried out exclusively relying on wireless messages. The section controllers do not interact with the drivers or guards of the train; they interact with station masters and cabin ASMs only (and on phone).

I thought IR implemented some sort of section controlling located at important junctions with the RRI(?) panel control. Or is that applicable only to the junctions themselves?
Route Relay Interlocking (RRI) is only implemented at major junctions and terminus stations etc. And that too the route controlled by the RRI is just for that station/junction. We do not have a system where one control centre covers a large areas, like what they have in UK etc. The section controller still is the boss, he instructs the Station Master/Cabin ASM on what exactly should be done for a train. So in a busy station, the section controller can say that the train (which does not have a halt there), should be allowed to "run through". The Cabin ASM, or SM in charge of RRI with a flick of few buttons sets the route for the train to "run through".

I understand all automatic block territory has centralized control, but thought the walkie-talkie/phone based system was done along with the old system of Neale's ball tokens
Walkie Talkies/VHF sets are used for non-critical communication. Even in the "token less block system" (which replaced the Neale's ball token system), there is a phone in place. The block-instrument using which station master's confirm "Line clear" has a phone, which connects the two stations. So when a train has to be sent out, the SM presses a plunger on his block instrument, which rings a bell in the station ahead. The SM there picks up the phone, can speak with the other chap before he gives the "Line clear" on the block instrument. But off-course before he does that, he also checks with the section controller on another phone to take his concurrence.

Singha wrote:has the guard wagon changed at all over the years?
Not much. But heard there are plans to give some comforts like a small battery operated light in the caboose etc.

There used to be a small grilled lockable compartment inside the van to transport passenger accompanied dogs. Enough to contain a fully grown German Shepard, IIRC.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 14 Sep 2015 20:55

chetak wrote:There used to be a small grilled lockable compartment inside the van to transport passenger accompanied dogs. Enough to contain a fully grown German Shepard, IIRC.

It was known as "dog locker", and was part of the passenger train's guard compartment. I don't know if it exists now. The cabin of a passenger/mail/express guard is much better, as it pretty much has the same facilities which the passengers on train has (lights, bigger space, cupboards, tables etc.).

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 14 Sep 2015 20:58

Indian Railways introduces vacuum toilets on Dibrugrah Rajdhani express from Monday

Stinking washrooms on trains may become a thing of the past with the railways launching the trial run of vacuum toilet on Dibrugarh Rajdhani from Monday.

Vacuum toilet, a first in railways, will be on trial in Dibrugarh Rajdhani from September 14, said a senior Railway Ministry official involved with the project.

Fitted in the First AC coach at an estimated cost of about Rs 3 lakh, the vucuum toilet is also equipped with the bio-digester system.

Vacuum toilets are currently operational in aircraft.

According to the plan, railways will initially install 80 such toilets on a Shatabdi Express train, the official said.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Sep 2015 21:12

locking up a dog in a small cage for a 48 hr train journey

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 15 Sep 2015 03:27

One of the famous stories involving the supernatural and IR is The Tail Light, by F. R. Corson, a civil servant of old days in India. It appeared in that now defunct magazine Indian State Railways Magazine that ran from 1929 to 1935. The story starts on board the steamship the S. S. Ranpura enroute to England. There is a quiet man in the saloon who looks distinguished and turns out to be the burra sahib Mr. Mackenzie of the famous Calcutta trading house of Bryce and Mackenzie. The conversation turns to ghosts one evening and the quiet man after a peg relates a story when he was young and working as a loco pilot, on the Benares Mail. One night in lashing rain just beyond Madhupur, Jharkand having left Asansol and en route to Moghulsarai, with Ram Jan his fireman shoveling coal in and Mackenzie squinting through the blinding rain having passed Madhupur..........

Now you can do one of two things. You can buy Ruskin Bond's anthology of Ghost stories, get the issue of the Indian States Railway Magazine, or......

The Tail Light

http://www.amazon.com/Penguin-Book-Indi ... 0140178325

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 15 Sep 2015 06:54

The YouTube links for the BBC documentary series on the Indian Railways

Episode 1

Episode 2

Episode 3

Episode 4

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 15 Sep 2015 18:34

The vacuum toilet was first mooted in NDA1 IIRC. Finally some movement after 15 years.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 15 Sep 2015 18:48

I would have preferred using a desi solution instead of importing these toilets. This is too expensive a solution and will not get deployed system wide at this price point. Granted, some reduction may be possible in manufacturing these toilets en masse in India, but the only figure we have today is the 3lakh/coach, or is it per toilet, each coach having 4?. Assuming the former, installing these on all of IR's 45K odd coaches will cost a whopping 1350 crores!

We should have utilized these 15 years to create a local competition to design and dev a home grown system. There were a few reports some people trying their ideas out, but haven't heard anything about them since. DRDO also had the bio-digester tech (mentioned above to be fair), but that's dealing with only disposal. Even that's better than investing in such costly solutions - regular toilets can be kept clean, as long as we solve the issue of dumping on the tracks.

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 15 Sep 2015 19:00

Imported or not it's not bad at 3 lakh per coach, ~60lacs for a 20 coach train. They need to hire some good designers to make the internal train design more asthetic and pleasing at least in the more expensive trains. Good news either way, Atleast something is being done unlike the good ol days of gandhi parivaar

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 15 Sep 2015 19:09

The railways have been claiming to have been working on bio-toilets for at least two decades. News report were at various time suggesting that they were under trial or will be introduced shortly. It turned out to be hot gas as nothing has come out of it. I think they should just get the tech and manufacture in India and hopefully absorb the tech instead of wasting time trying to reinvent the wheel. We are probably the only major railways where people actually see and smell crap on tracks.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Sep 2015 19:19

the pindigenous toilet thing is akin to the never ending wireless in local loop pilot trials that eventually fizzled out to 3g

nothing different from the dharmic tech for turd world projects that go on in some western univs like MIT...it keeps a lot of people in the game.

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 15 Sep 2015 19:22

Your stories are always quite intriguing vsunderji. I can only imagine how it must feel to have lived through the newly independent india all the way to where we are now. I barely remember the 80s and even that was far far different from the life of today. It was simpler and happier in some respect I guess. The media was respectful, the streets were cleaner and greener, people actually lived in communities, tv was filled with interesting stories with interesting plot lines no need for half naked ladies running around to increase the trip ratings. Everyone still hated the politicians though

It's sad how we have to lose all that but that's life I guess. Rural india is still pretty well knit but it's losing that charm ax well.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 15 Sep 2015 19:27

Well , I did use their Bio-Toilet in DBRT RAJ last year and this year JAN. It has pressure flush. Since they have onboard maintenance crew , toilets are kept clean for most part of the journey. Vacuum flush may not add much value except for saving water, perhaps. I have seen dirty toilets in Airplanes too. So , unless regular cleaning is done in all trains having Vacuum flush toilet ( not only in RAJ) we can't have a good solution. Else Lack of toilet training in use of western toilets by ordinary Indians would leave much to be achieved and even crew would find it increasing their workload.

Bio-Digester toilets are good solution for shit not discharged on the tracks and you get fertiliser too at the end of it. But you need end of the line processing plants for containers.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 15 Sep 2015 21:06

Last I heard the bio-digester was working relatively well and being regularly improved as one goes along. The big problem has been trash debris that folks seem to chuck down the chute requiring frequent cleaning. Another problem has been the stench, esp for folks sitting by the toilet. But IR seems to have a handle on it and has plans to go 100% bio toilet in a few more year. Already 20% coaches are bio-toilets per the below.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/t ... 069104.ece
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 564649.cms
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/mumbai/othe ... 548875.cms

Some problems have come up WRT the stench and the ‘scavenging’ part of maintaining the unit but nothing that cannot be overcome with some equipment and training. The vacuum system should help with the stench and vacuum pump trucks should help with the maintenance. The rest of the world does it this way with no real issues. The lack of proper venting and the lack of a P-Trap is allowing the smell to concentrate and back feed into the coach so maybe a design tweak is needed.

So please folks stop saying the bio-toilets are not happening or not working. Things seem to be going relatively well at this point if you ask me though obviously more tweaks needed...

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 15 Sep 2015 21:20

I think they are going with a mix of bio-digester and vacuum. It doesn't make sense to import vacuum when digestors were being installed and were scheduled to be completely installed by 2016 end.

Thanks for the link Theo saar, not sure where this bio-digester not happening soundbites are coming from, we actually used to have long discussions about digesters in this very thread about a year ago IIRC.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 15 Sep 2015 21:35

ldev ji, thanks for the links, I was looking for the last 3.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 15 Sep 2015 21:38

Well Next month I am scheduled to travel multiple times on RAJABABU in conjunction with flights and volvo bus journeys and see how Bio Toilets are doing besides seeing if any further improvements have taken place in terms of cleanliness, service level etc. The problem is first class will always have better service and cleaning than others as pressure is less. One needs to see how it keeps up in Sleeper and 3A/2A coaches.

BTW Chennai and Kolkata airports have been trashed by Civil Aviation Ministers berating their shoddy construction etc. They are coming out with Civil Aviation Policy. Hopefully , these may get to run better and professionally by private players.

ISBT at Kashmiri gate with Metro and Buses seems disappointing in terms of functionalities , convenience of use and amenities to the passenger. Volvo and Merc buses have made some difference to ride quality, also due to better Expressways, not yet as smooth as those in Dubai/SA or Germany.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 18 Sep 2015 18:41

Ministry puzzled as railways loses 150 million passengers in first five months of FY16

NEW DELHI: The ministry of railways is at a loss as to why the number of passengers travelling in trains is going down despite no increase in fares. The railways have lost 150 million passengers in the five months of the current financial year, and Suresh Prabhu is worried.

The issue came up for discussion during the General Managers' (GMs) meeting on September 15. The trend of declining passengers left the Minister of State (MoS) for Railways Manoj Sinha astounded. "The trains are always full. You cannot get a reservation. Then how can you say the number of passengers travelling in trains is going down. There must be something wrong with the numbers," he is believed to have said.

The railway ministry numbers show that while 3,575 million passengers travelled in trains in the period between April to August in FY15, the figure for the same period in the current year was 3,425 million, a fall of 4.2 per cent in ridership. Going by the trend, railways expect a nearly 5 per cent fall in passenger traffic by the end of the year.

This is the second year in a row that the passenger figures have shown a downward trend. Railways had lost 191 million passengers in 2014-15 too. "Though we were concerned, we thought it was an aberration and things would be alright. However, now things are becoming worse and we have to buck the trend for the sake of railway's financial health," a senior official in the traffic directorate of railways told ET. For that the railways have to first figure out the reason for the passengers' cold shoulder.

As a follow-up to the GMs meeting, chairman railway board (CRB) AK Mittal has sent a letter to all the zonal GMs, asking them to find out from the divisions under them as to why the passenger numbers are declining.

"The Railway Board Members cannot figure out the trend. It has defied their belief that their low fares vis-a-vis road travel would ensure that passengers do not go anywhere," the traffic official said.

Several officials failed to see any sense in CRB's letter. "It does not require rocket science to figure out why the passenger figures are going down. Maximum loss has been in the short distance and suburban segment. Obviously, passengers prefer road journeys to the unwelcoming railways. They prefer to pay more to save time than to wait for low fare, unpunctual and crowded trains," an official said.

He listed out several reasons for passengers' unhappiness, right from booking of a ticket to the journey itself. "It is a pain for most passengers to buy a ticket. There are long queues. Ticket vending machines have been installed at some stations like New Delhi but many of them don't work. If they work, they ask for the exact amount of money and do not return cash. Mobile booking apps have been launched for some segments but how many can use them. Most passengers don't have credit or debit cards," he revealed.

Another official said there was also the possibility that ticket compliance had reduced and many passengers were travelling without tickets. He said there was a shortage of about 5,000 train ticket examiners (TTEs). "TTEs anyway restrict themselves to reserved sections and hardly venture out to the unreserved sections of the train," he added.

The only saving grace was that railways had registered a marginal increase of 8 million in the reserved category, mainly accounting for long distance and AC-coach travelers

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 18 Sep 2015 18:48

Why is that surprising anyways women engineers and managers have been a part of these projects since the first phase of Delhi metro. After all they have a role to play in the construction of the country like everyone else.

It's good to see they aren't hesitant to get their hands dirty, this is real feminism and girl power not dying your hair, doing slutwalks and being obnoxious in general. May the tribe of such hardworking women increase a thousand fold as well.

Just my 2 Paisa onlee.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 19 Sep 2015 19:10

Those of you who never saw steam on IR probably never heard of the famous steam sheds on IR. Steam loco sheds were truly impressive affairs. A turntable, locos with steam up, the attached foundry where repairs were carried out and the clang of hot metal being forged, machine shops and the strange mixture of steam, oil and grime and sweat. Ash pits to rake out the coal. Steam loco sheds were built strategically, abundant supply of water was an important criteria and they would be midway on important routes. Loco sheds would have their resident "speed king" who would know how to coax the last amount of juice and make up for lost time.
Sadly these steam loco sheds lie today abandoned, the houses that housed the running staff are all broken up and desolate, the families that lived here scattered. One of the great privileges of traveling by a steam hauled loco say on a steam hauled GT Express from Delhi to Chennai was that you could pay the conductor a nice tip and he would take two buckets, go to the loco at say Amla Jn, and bring back two buckets of really hot boiling water. Then you shave, take a hot bath and get the grime off and be in time for some nice dinner at Nagpur absolutely refreshed.

Here are some steam sheds I remember:

1. Jhajha This was not a junction, just a massive steam loco shed in Bihar on the Mainline, Asansol-Moghulsarai via Patna. Very large fleet of WP locos. Many talaabs around and so plenty of water. Midway between Asansol and Moghulsarai.
The demise of steam meant the shed died and Jhajha not being a junction, the station lost it's importance. A loco from Jhajha shed:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/upload ... _thumb.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jhajha_railway_station

More images for Jhajha, the coaling station and water tower and the most prominent feature the hill:

http://www.oldmartiniansassociation.co. ... 24_000.jpg

The caption gives more info about the 16 pointed star logo of locos belonging to the Jhajha shed:

Mail Driver Ken Abbotsford OF THE Eastern Railway’s Jhajha Loco. Shed (JAJ) and his American –built “WP” No: 7247 (Baldwin Locomotive Works No: 74235) prior to heading an “8-Down” express to Howrah (HWH), Calcutta. In the background are the coaling-stage, station water-reservoir and the region’s prominent geographical feature, Jhajha Hill. Of note is the painted 16-point maroon/silver star embellishing the central headlight – an identifier particular to Jhajha Loco. Shed – devised by Fireman Raymond Moreno. Throughout Indian Railways, every Loco. Shed devised their own individual identifying pattern of smokebox-door embellishment.

The Jhajha loco that was used for the train of the King of Afghanistan:

http://www.oldmartiniansassociation.co. ... 22_000.jpg

Mail Driver Nat Spencer of Jhajha Loco. (JAJ)and wife Barbara stand proudly in front of his ‘own’ engine decorated for working an “Imperial Special” for the King of Afghanistan’s visit.

2. Bitragunta Not a junction, so it has lost prestige in the diesel and electric era. Now who in their right mind can forget Bitragunta. Midway between Vijayawada and Chennai on the Delhi-Chennai mainline and a good place to tank up. Very, very impressive roundhouse on the left as you left Bitragunta towards Chennai. The loco shed had a huge banner that said "Home of the Iron Horse--Bitragunta loco shed". This is a picture of the loco shed and roundhouse at Bitragunta exactly as I remember it from the early 60's.

http://im1.indiarailinfo.com/NEXT/NEXT/ ... 70922f.jpg

3. Pakala Metre Gauge steam loco shed with a branch line to Dharmavaram and Renigunta. Impressive livery. The old loco colony is in ruins and forlorn. The shed and the bustle is all gone. The bungalows where the foremen and staff lived and who maintained in impeccable condition the iron horses are derelict.

Of course others like Jhansi, Bhusawal, Kanpur etc were also large steam sheds, but they made a change to the electrics and diesels. The ones above just died.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 19 Sep 2015 19:41

^^ Was Chengalpet a steam shed? There are some abandoned loco pitline structures to one side (not sure if they survived the gauge conversion though). And Shoranur was one, IIRC. The other junction-based steams simply moved on to their new avatars as diesels/electrics sheds. Erode and Arakkonam, for instance. Surprisingly, Shoranur did not become a diesel shed, but tiny Ernakulam did. Odd.

Also, how far did a single steam loco travel? Earlier you had mentioned the famous 1Dn/2up Mail to Mangalore had an Arakkonam engine all the way up to Shoranur. I thought steam locos were replaced frequently to save time taken to fill the coal tenders, hence the multitude of sheds throughout the network. My knowledge of steam trains are restricted to the NMR from Mettupalayam, and the occasional childhood spottings of a few MG steam engines in Egmore in the eighties

.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 19 Sep 2015 20:02

ldev-ji, thanks for sharing the links to the BBC documentary. Surprisingly, the series was very comprehensive, and a must watch for all rail aficionados. They show how Central Railways works behind the scenes in pit-line maintenance, cleaning, laundry, food prep, etc. Then go in depth into loco pilot training, motormen operations, etc. with a small segment on the loco pilot training and POH centre in Bhusaval. Possibly the most comprehensive one I have ever seen.

Oh, and is BBC losing some kind of marketshare in India? The drain inspection was kept to the barest minimum, practically zero - perhaps they felt some negative fallout after that Udwin documentary? This was very positive, showing clean stations and trains, and how much IR invests in keeping things clean and safe. They had a segment on how crowded the unreserved long distance travel is, but it was spun positively by the host in applying her parents' experience in the UK as new immigrants, and how even when these coaches are crowded, the people are adjusting and accommodating to each other, and how cheap these trains were. She also showed better accommodation is available for those who pay by travelling in first AC. Many instances of how IR is better than some UK practices, especially on loco pilot training - IR trains them for 10+ years before allowing pilots on passenger trains, whereas the corresponding number in British Rail is 2 - this was mentioned by the BBC narrator himself! After some time, it was a bit cloying (thegattal, as we say in Tamil)

.

Sachin wrote:Route Relay Interlocking (RRI) is only implemented at major junctions and terminus stations etc. And that too the route controlled by the RRI is just for that station/junction. We do not have a system where one control centre covers a large areas, like what they have in UK etc. The section controller still is the boss, he instructs the Station Master/Cabin ASM on what exactly should be done for a train. So in a busy station, the section controller can say that the train (which does not have a halt there), should be allowed to "run through". The Cabin ASM, or SM in charge of RRI with a flick of few buttons sets the route for the train to "run through".

Thanks, this is good to know. So can I take it that automatic block sections are centrally controlled and absolute block ones are following the process you have described here? The BBC documentary above shows the Mumbai CST control centre, which I think controls upto Kalyan (they mentioned some 60 km distance, but not an exact physical extent), and this section is definitely under automatic block. Similarly, the Chennai area tracks are all automatic block, at least up to Arakkonam and Chengalpattu, possibly the entire division up to Jolarpettai and Villupuram.

Sachin wrote:Even in the "token less block system" (which replaced the Neale's ball token system), there is a phone in place.

I was surprised to find out that the single electrified suburban section in Mumbai between Palasdari-Khopoli is still operated by a Neale's ball system! I thought they had done away with this system except in single MG sections and a few branch BG lines. I still remember the whoosh of fire lit by a station worker somewhere near Tiruthuraipoondi late at night on board the MG Sethu express bound for Rameswaram. This guy with the fiery torch climbed on to a raised platform next to the mainline, and my train was on the loop. The oncoming train simply zoomed past at 50-60kmph, the ALP of the loco dropped off his tennis racquet-like contraption, and used his forearm to scoop up the one held by the guy on the platform. Very impressive considering the darkness and the speed of the train.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Sep 2015 20:10

Singha wrote:locking up a dog in a small cage for a 48 hr train journey

This was usually the place for the dog accompanied by a second class ticket holder. The first class folks could carry the dog(s) in the compartment on payment. I wonder if such an arrangement still exists. As for the animal in the dog locker, the owner had to come running at every station to give the animal water and take them out for susu etc. In many cases, at short stops, the passenger would wind up riding in the guards van till the next station.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 19 Sep 2015 20:15

arshyam wrote:^^ Was Chengalpet a steam shed? There are some abandoned loco pitline structures to one side (not sure if they survived the gauge conversion though). And Shoranur was one, IIRC. The other junction-based steams simply moved on to their new avatars as diesels/electrics sheds. Erode and Arakkonam, for instance. Surprisingly, Shoranur did not become a diesel shed, but tiny Ernakulam did. Odd.

Also, how far did a single steam loco travel? Earlier you had mentioned the famous 1Dn/2up Mail to Mangalore had an Arakkonam engine all the way up to Shoranur. I thought steam locos were replaced frequently to save time taken to fill the coal tenders, hence the multitude of sheds throughout the network. My knowledge of steam trains are restricted to the NMR from Mettupalayam, and the occasional childhood spottings of a few MG steam engines in Egmore in the eighties .

The Ango-Indians in the Railways article I think mentions Villupuram and the speed king of that shed, but not Chenglepet. I think you are right, steam locos went about 8 hours and topped off water every 4-5 hours. So the Arakonnam loco would probably change to an Erode loco which then went upto Shoranur and the WG class would take over. Shoranur-Mangalore is about 8 hours and the single WG would haul it all the way to Mangalore. Erode came dead at night on Mangalore mail towards Mangalore, around 2am and so I probably never saw the change and neither on the way back to Chennai, when Erode came around midnight on the Mail. By the time I was traveling on West Coast Express in the late 60's ( and I could in principle see an engine change in the late evening at Erode) dieselization had taken place upto Shoranur from Chennai, though Shoranur-Mangalore was still a steam WG class even in the mid 70's. Jhajha and the Mainline was not electrified in the mid 70's though the Grand Chord was. My most famous memory of a Grand Chord travel was when the balloon went up in 1971. We ended up with a mess workers strike in Kharagpur. For 4 days students took over the mess and cooked for the others. But the enthusiasm petered out and some people did not do their share of work, bloody freeloaders. There are pictures of that mess strike and war days in the homepage of Commander Debashis Mukherjee, mech Eng 1974 who joined IN( ex Lalluite, all from LLR Hall ( Lala Lajpat Rai Hall)were called Lalluite and Lallu Hall).

http://debashis1.tripod.com/album2/MessStrike1.jpg

Committee of seniors ( once a Lalluite always remains one) who decided menu, and next days tasks and who went to class and who got a note. Third week Nov 1971.

Students washing their plates Mess strike Nov 1971

http://debashis1.tripod.com/album2/MessStrike2.jpg

Our repertoire was limited, Dal and egg curry and a vegetable. With Hunters and Migs-21 based next door at Kalaikunda practicing daily overhead at all hours of the day and night, rattling windows, a mess strike and Boyra already happened, I can assure you that it was and remains a period of my life I will remember for a long time. Finally with war all but imminent the institute authorities closed down the institute and deferred the final exams. We all went home days before the actual declaration of war, and I took the Kalka mail in total blackout conditions on the train through the Grand Chord( which of course was electrified even then) , of course in the unreserved bogie. Next morning I was rescued and taken to a 3-tier sleeper that some of the boys had commandeered since it was after 7am. In any case on reaching Delhi in pitch darkness due to black out, I still had to shell out a fortune for me to the cabbie to reach home, surprising my parents who did not expect me, but were happy
that I would be with them as the situation had gotten very tense.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 19 Sep 2015 23:39

^^^ One of the people standing in the back in that photo of the mess committee to supervise cooking during the strike is Madhusudhan Chakraborti, aka Madhuda, aka Madhu Chaks, the founding director of IIT Bhubhaneswar.
Facing the camera and sitting is Pervez Rusi Framji Patel, senior underofficer NCC and one of the two senior underofficers, the other being Rear-Admiral M. K. Badhwar who went on to head the Naval warship design bureau and under whose tenure and guidance , the Indian Navy reached spectacular heights in warship design and construction.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 20 Sep 2015 21:41

arshyam wrote:Surprisingly, Shoranur did not become a diesel shed, but tiny Ernakulam did. Odd.

Many of the folks in Shoranur side still crib that they were not given a good deal when it comes to the loco shed. One thing I felt was that, Shoranur had its "golden days" during the Raj. One thing this area was part of British Malabar and was fully under the British (where as Ernakulam was actually part of a different kingdom). Secondly Shornur also had a good watering source - the Bharathapuzha river, which made it a real good location for steam locos (which drank lots of water). By the time diesels took over things changed. Ernakulam became a major town/city in Kerala state, and diesels also did not require a good watering source. Shoranur by then had become just another town.

So can I take it that automatic block sections are centrally controlled and absolute block ones are following the process you have described here? The BBC documentary above shows the Mumbai CST control centre

For more authentic information please check up http://www.irfca.org; they are the best when it comes to IR. But one thing I have noticed is that after Kalyan, the suburban trains also use the two tracks which is used by other trains. So I guess from then own automatic signalling is done away with, and it is the tokenless block system in place.

The oncoming train simply zoomed past at 50-60kmph, the ALP of the loco dropped off his tennis racquet-like contraption, and used his forearm to scoop up the one held by the guy on the platform

The catch is that, it is NOT the tennis racquet-like contraption which is important. That contraption actually has a pouch, in which there is a steel ball token (with a unique number etc. on it). Station masters when giving "line clear", also have to confirm the token number. The drivers were also supposed to note down the token numbers in their log book.

chetak wrote:The first class folks could carry the dog(s) in the compartment on payment. I wonder if such an arrangement still exists

The first class coaches during the days of Raj were like small cabins, with each of them having a door directly leading to the platform (The Nilgiri Mountain Railway's FC coaches still have that). So it may be quite okay to take a dog into your own compartment. Subsequently the design of the coach was changed. Each "bay" was still a bit secluded, with individual doors etc. And from what I hear now, the non-AC first class coaches are all getting pulled out of service. IR does not make such coaches any more. So only AC 1st class may remain.

vsunder wrote: So the Arakonnam loco would probably change to an Erode loco which then went upto Shoranur and the WG class would take over. Shoranur-Mangalore is about 8 hours and the single WG would haul it all the way to Mangalore

My understanding that the steam locos and their crews operated pretty much for the same duration. So a train at Erode would get a new crew and steam loco who at the maximum can only work continuously for 8 hours. So yes, may the Erode loco can reach Shornur within 8 hours, but then the loco and the crew have to take their rests (loco in shed, crew in the running room). I don't know if Podanur had a loco shed. In that case Erode to Podanur may have taken around 3-4 hours, the crew and loco takes a rest for an hour, and then loco gets reversed to take another train back to Erode. The duty turn is complete for loco and the drivers. I had made a recent trip on the Shornur to Kozhikode route. One thing I noticed was that many stations like Shornur, Kuttipuram etc. all were built very close to large water bodies (Bharathapuzha for example).

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 20 Sep 2015 22:24

^^ Sachin's post brought back many memories.

1. The old first class, was constructed so that each cabin was a separate entity. Each cabin had it's own bathroom and toilet facility and also a shower. The cabin of course occupied the entire width of the bogie as there was no vestibule. The time table and various other information for that particular route was under a glass panel and attached to the bathroom door. Information like where meals would be served and so on and the usual minutae of what to do with lost baggage etc. First class coaches of the type with vestibules started to appear in 1963-1964. Now they are being withdrawn and I think Mangalore Mail, Malabar express and maybe Trivandrum mail may still have it, but they are rare.

2. Regarding dogs, mine did an Agastya. You know the story of Mr. Agastya and his beautiful wife Mrs. Lopamudra Agastya who crossed the Vindhyas and never came back. In 1969, we made the great shift south to Mangalore from Kanpur permanently. There was the dog and it was decided partly because I must have thrown a fit that he would come with us. Fellow only knew to swim in the Ganga which flowed behind our house. So we took him. Those days there was a slip coach, Lucknow-Chennai and it got attached to GT at dead of night in Jhansi. In those days no wayside station had any electrical illumination. The branch line Jhansi Kanpur was miles and miles of yellow mustard in the daytime if you took the Lucknow-Bombay VT slip coach and dark with all stations illuminated by oil lamps if you went to Chennai and took the night train. It was single lined. Every station had a lamp room where wicks, oil etc for the signals were stored and the stations were illuminated by a few feeble oil lamps, the station master worked in the light of an oil lamp and the telegraph clicked. The signal man had to go every evening to the outer signals, climb the gantry and top off the oil for the lamp, trim wicks and polish the lens of the semaphore signals and make sure the lamp was burning properly. There was also the hazard of a stray leopard watching you and knowing your precise movements every day and doing a Rudraprayag on you at the opportune moment. The total darkness that enveloped rural India at sundown only helped. Regarding signals, most of them down meant a go, but in the Dharakoh-Maramjhiri section of the Itarsi-Nagpur route and possibly the entire Itarsi-Nagpur route, go meant the arm was vertical. This was a safety device, in case the wire connecting the signal to the lever broke, the arm would just fall down. In the ghat section falling rocks could break wires/cables and everything was mechanically operated. Regarding leopards and tigers prowling the platforms of stations on the Howrah-Mumbai mainline, the best stories are found in the excellent book by John Mitchell, The Wheels of Ind, and captures the time he spent looking after the Bilaspur section of the old Bengal Nagpur railway ( forerunner of SER and SECR) in the 1920's.

So we went the dog with us in a vestibule type first class, he displayed exemplary behaviour. Crossing the many mighty rivers, Yamuna( at Kalpi between Kanpur-Jhansi), Narmada, Godavari, Krishna etc we reached Chennai. No cabbie wanted to take him in the cab but eventually one did.
The hotel staff was kinder and we spent the night and next day took West Coast express to Mangalore, and so he did cross the Kaveri at Erode. The guy got confused by the sea and thought it was another Ganga and went berserk when I first took him there.

3. Regarding loco pilots and 8 hours. That is not exactly so. The British rules were that the staff had to remain on duty "continuously". That ambiguity meant that staff were on duty even 12 or more hours, freight pilots could even be on duty 24 or more hours. A young firebrand George Fernandes took over the Railway Union and launched an agitation and strike beginning May 8, 1974. The strike ended May 27, 1974.
One of the demands of the strikers was to get rid of this "continuous" duty clause. The strikers were very brutally suppressed by Indira Gandhi. The strike was supported by all the railway unions, even those that nominally were affiliated with the Congress. In Mangalore I recall, most of the traffic and running staff went into hiding. POK-1 took place in the middle of the strike. It was one of the events cited by IG to declare Emergency a year later. The strike was a landmark event in India. For the first time ever some but not all Anglo-Indians joined it. You may read about this in one of the contributions in the book Footprints on the Track, I have linked above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_rail ... e_in_India

http://www.jstor.org/stable/4395459?seq ... b_contents

4. Regarding the Neale ball, the stationary person held a torch dipped in naptha and lit it at night. Yes there was a leather pouch at the place where the head of the "tennis racquet" joins the handle. That is where the ball/token was kept. The pick up was such a smooth thing. I remember a very smooth pick up watching from West Coast express 1966, Coimbatore North of Nilgiri express and another one at late night at Utukuli, between Erode and Coimbatore of Cochin Mail coming from a now non-existent station( it exists but non-functional) CHTS( Cochin Harbour terminus) on a then single line and me waiting on West Coast coming home from some madarsa. The man with a naptha torch looked like Hercules.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Sep 2015 06:24

>> We ended up with a mess workers strike in Kharagpur. For 4 days students took over the mess and cooked for the others.

are you referring to iit kgp ? my late uncle it seems was doing his m.arch there after finishing his b.arch from JJ in mumbai. he mentioned this mess strike once.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 23 Sep 2015 06:18

Cabinet clears Gadag-Hotgi doubling between Gadag(Karnataka) and Hotgi(Maharashtra).

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=126941

This doubling goes through Bijapur(Vijayapura) district. The doubling will decongest and provide an alternate route to the North and west from Bangalore and Hospet. More importantly the Kudgi super thermal plant on this line near Bijapur is going to start operations in 2016:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kudgi_Sup ... er_Station

Coal for this plant is to be sourced from a coalfield in Jharkand and so the doubling will help in timely delivery of coal to the plant.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Sep 2015 06:43

is Raichur thermal plant also near that route? its the biggest plant in KA and one on which most of the state depends. they are running out of space to dump the fly ash on current 1000 acre yard, so a german co has been roped in who has tech to use fly ash for concrete mixes.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 23 Sep 2015 06:57

just travelled on sampark kranti exp from nizamuddin 2nd sleeper> Kacheguda ( hyderabad) >2nd A/c Nizamuddin...a) people had put stuff into the toilet ( bio digester) , bottles etc. b) the cleanliness level was much higher than in the past c) food is still under par... almost same meal for lunch and dinner.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 23 Sep 2015 07:11

Singha wrote:is Raichur thermal plant also near that route? its the biggest plant in KA and one on which most of the state depends. they are running out of space to dump the fly ash on current 1000 acre yard, so a german co has been roped in who has tech to use fly ash for concrete mixes.

No far away, Raichur is on the Chennai-Mumbai route. Raichur lies between the Tunga and the Krishna rivers, north of Guntakal and Adoni. While this route is close to Bijapur. Raichur is close to Kuruvapur an important pilgrimage site on an island in the Krishna river, where Sri pada Sri Vallabha an incarnation of Dattatreya lived in the 14th century. The super thermal plant at Raichur draws water from the Krishna river and so will Kudgi from the reservoir created by the Almatti dam on the Krishna.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 23 Sep 2015 07:16

http://scroll.in/article/739955/a-ticke ... -paintings