West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Sep 2015 15:47

Happens all the time now during Haj or Stoning of the Devil , this seems gross management by Saudi , but faithful are reassured that their death in mecca takes them to Jannat , Now who can argue with that.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Sep 2015 16:44

the saudis have built a palatial hotel-mall complex overlooking the grand mosque with rooms having panoramic views and charging upto $1000 a night. raffles, swissotel many premium chains are there.
there have been complaints they demolished old structures including ancient graveyards to pave such commercial projects. there is a gigantic clock tower over it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoGY2bGuPRE

there is a HSR planned between makkah and madina to supplement the expressway.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Sep 2015 17:06

Who is this guy comes in Mercedes , goes inside kabah , seems to wipe a marble structure and then goes back in his Merc , seems to have 10's of NSG guys around him , does not look like king of Saudi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CZQEJJwc90

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 24 Sep 2015 17:24

Salmon the fishy "Custodian of Holy mosques". Glad was not around that place, I would have literally and figuratively lost my head because I started giggling, when he pops his head inside that silver thingy shaped like a, um, boat.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Sep 2015 17:30

Here’s how the Russian Air Force moved 28 aircraft to Syria (almost) undetected

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Sep 2015 17:33

hnair wrote:Salmon the fishy "Custodian of Holy mosques". Glad was not around that place, I would have literally and figuratively lost my head because I started giggling, when he pops his head inside that silver thingy shaped like a, um, boat.

Thats the king I guess then he is suppose to be the Custodian , I see the only hard work he does is wipes those marble stone with clothes.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 24 Sep 2015 17:44

Apparently 700 dead - NDTV

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Sep 2015 18:14

Delicate pooch: All pics of casualties show sdre, no tfta. The Faithful are organized by country of origin? No wonder there was a stampede. Yes, tffa Saudi polis would have triggered that.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Sep 2015 18:21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsMeirkwHX4

it looks like one inch from a deadly stampede even in normal times.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Sep 2015 18:24

UB per Google only 1 Indian dead so far.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Sep 2015 18:28

maybe like tirupati, the rich have special tickets to get in and out of these crowded places in more comfort and escorted into secure lane areas.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Sep 2015 18:31

GD is it fair to compare Tirupati to Mecca? Are you that Macaulayized?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Sep 2015 20:36

but certain economic models are similar around the world(one can pay or use political clout for faster easier access) ... and scalability issues are similar whether its mecca, big rally or a kumbh mela here.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Sep 2015 21:12

Or boarding a plane, if managed by buffoons. Delta in Seattle, 10:30pm, red-eye flight, delayed because crew coming in on delayed flight:

Clear a path for the crew coming in soon - there is absolutely no reason for anyone to be standing to that side of the Sky Priority line .....(delay as tubelight comes on) . unless you are a premium class or Sky Priority passenger.

Probably Saudi polis started pushing and shoving sdre crowd and the mechanics of Wave Propagation Mechanics Through Masses of the Faithful took over.. some screams.. pushbacks - police beat up people - panic - run- fall-get stomped on..

As Singha says, happened too many times to not learn from it. But when idiots are running crowd-control, it still happens.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 24 Sep 2015 21:44

90 odd iranians died. Lets see as the details arrive. Some porki cricketers managed to escape..a pity.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 24 Sep 2015 22:13

[unacceptable language removed by admin - do not belittle the death of 700 souls]

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Sep 2015 22:15

Al Jazeera's Basma Atassi,

reporting from Mina, said the incident took place in a street between pilgrim camps.
"The street where it happened is named Street 204. This stampede did not happen at the site of the 'stoning of the devil' ritual, which was happening today.
"During and after the stampede the pilgrims continued to flock into Mina to perform the devil stoning ritual."

Iran slams Saudi Arabia over Hajj stampede
Deputy foreign minister says kingdom is responsible for tragedy by closing off paths on way to "stoning devil" ritual.

Iran has accused Saudi Arabia of safety errors after at least 43 of its citizens died in a stampede that killed hundreds of pilgrims during the annual Hajj pilgrimage. After saying the kingdom was responsible for Thursday's tragedy, Deputy Foreign Minister Hossein Amir Abdollahian said Saudi's envoy to Tehran would be summoned to the foreign ministry. The head of Iran's Hajj organisation, Said Ohadi, said that, for "unknown reasons," two paths had been closed off near the site of a symbolic stoning of the devil ritual where the stampede occurred. "This caused this tragic incident," he said on state television, according to the Associated Press news agency.

The names of all Iranians killed in the stampede were read out in a sombre live broadcast in Tehran by a spokesman for the Hajj organisation. Saudi's civil defence service has said at least 717 people were killed and 863 hurt.
Ohadi said the path closures had left only three routes to the area where the stoning ceremony was held in Mina, about 5km from Mecca.
As well as the dead, at least 60 Iranians were injured, he said. "Today's incident shows mismanagement and lack of serious attention to the safety of pilgrims," said Ohadi. "There is no other explanation. The Saudi officials should be held accountable." Abdollahian also accused Saudi officials of "tactlessness" over the lack of safety measures at the Hajj. "We can in no way be indifferent to this irresponsible behaviour of Saudi Arabia. ... Saudi Health Minister Khaled al-Falih has blamed undisciplined pilgrims for the tragedy, saying it could have been avoided if they had "followed instructions." Iran has set up a special headquarters at the accident site to support Iranian pilgrims.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 25 Sep 2015 01:33

^^^But the officials in the kingdom had avoided responsibility citing the Islamic doctrine that anyone who dies during the pilgrimage goes to heaven.

Saudi civil defense directorate said on Twitter:

We ask God to grant the martyrs his mercy.

(Only in last few days, along with a crane accident where quite a few died, there were at least two big fires in two hotels where people got hurt and 1000+ people (in each incident) have to be evacuated..

Bhurishrava · Post by **Bhurishrava** » 25 Sep 2015 03:09

http://news.yahoo.com/tacit-deal-betwee ... 34478.html

'Tacit' deal between US, Russia to end Syria war: Assad adviser

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Sep 2015 03:10

Bhurishrava wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/tacit-deal-betwee ... 34478.html

'Tacit' deal between US, Russia to end Syria war: Assad adviser

Expect Ukraine to cool a bit.

Abhay_S · Post by **Abhay_S** » 25 Sep 2015 05:10

Saudis Seek to Fend Off U.N. Inquiry on Yemen

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/25/world ... .html?_r=0

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Sep 2015 06:45

hotel fires in Makkah recently
http://www.emirates247.com/news/region/ ... 7-1.603957

http://www.emirates247.com/news/another ... 1-1.604249

I guess they have to reduce the annual Hajj quotas to various countries to better manage a smaller gathering.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 25 Sep 2015 10:14

Mi-24P (or PN I guess ) . Did Syria have any before?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 25 Sep 2015 10:15

Now looking at the scale of deployment , this has not happened in weeks of flying An-124 , I think this has been happening for months till the scale was known recently

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 25 Sep 2015 11:26

Russia is putting down deep roots as said earlier after the dereliction of duty by the US/West in dealing with ISIS,the monster it created along with the Saudis and other Arab "oilygarchs". Battered by decades of failed expeditionary wars,the US and West have run out of steam.They cannot even cope with the refugee tsunami in the EU,or come to an agreement on how to deal with it.

It has been obvious for decades that the root of almost all global problems is the Middle East.The West's failure to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian dispute encouraged extremist Islamic entities to expand their base and widen their sphere of influence.The end result has been the emergence of the diabolic ISIS. Putin and Russia on the frontline in Syria is the last hope of controlling and defeating ISIS.The West should seize the opportunity and support Putin and Assad,otherwise,the Libyan catastrophe will look like a Boy Scout jamboree in comparison to what will happen if Syria falls. Lebanon will also almost immediately collapse and ISIS will be upon the Borders of Israel.Can Jordan remain stable then? A "jihad" against the "Jews" by ISIS would rock the Islamic world,creating chaos everywhere. The Israelis will not remain weaponless and will definitely use their WMDs against the Islamic states whom they blame for the crisis and ISIS. The Samson option yet again?

The advent of a new monarch is usually followed by signs and omens.The new Saudi King has brought with him the worst omens one could imagine."Crane" chaos and deaths at Islam's holiest shrine in Mecca,followed by a hotel fire and then this most calamitous catastrophe. Over 700 killed in the "Crush",with over 800 more injured. What more is in store for the Saudis and the region?

Hajj stampede: witnesses blame Saudi officials and police as King Salman orders review

A pilgrim prays on the Mountain of Mercy, on the Plain of Arafat, near the holy city of Mecca. Photograph: Mosa'ab Elshamy/AP
Agence France-Presse

Friday 25 September 2015
Witnesses to a stampede that left more than 700 people dead at the hajj in Saudi Arabia on Thursday blamed Saudi authorities and said they were afraid to continue the rituals.

The worst tragedy in 25 years at the annual Muslim pilgrimage occurred on Thursday during the symbolic stoning of the devil at Mina, just outside the holy city of Mecca.

Analysis/ Saudi Arabia's latest hajj disaster raises serious safety questions

Huge numbers of pilgrims alone do not explain recurrence of fatal accidents – state must take blame for poor planning and incompetence

At least 717 people were killed and 863 people were hurt, spurring King Salman to order “a revision” of hajj organisation while authorities started to investigate the disaster.

The Saudi health minister, Khalid al-Falih, earlier pointed a finger of blame at the dead, saying the pilgrims had been undisciplined and not followed movement instructions, but the witnesses disagreed.

“There was crowding. The police had closed all entrances and exits to the pilgrims’ camp, leaving only one,” said Ahmed Abu Bakr, a 45-year-old Libyan who escaped the stampede with his mother.

“I saw dead bodies in front of me and injuries and suffocation. We removed the victims with the police.”

He added that police at the scene appeared inexperienced. “They don’t even know the roads and the places around here,” he said as others nodded in agreement.

Pilgrims in Mina stay in a complex of white fireproof tents big enough to hold more than 2 million people, and the interior ministry said it deployed 100,000 police to secure the hajj, maintain safety and manage traffic and crowds.

One outspoken critic of redevelopment at the holy sites said despite the large numbers, police were not properly trained and lacked the language skills for communicating with foreign pilgrims, who make up the majority of those on the hajj.

“They don’t have a clue how to engage with these people,” said Irfan al-Alawi, co-founder of the Mecca-based Islamic heritage research foundation. “There’s no crowd control.”

Another witness, 39-year-old Egyptian Mohammed Hasan, voiced worries that a similar incident “could happen again”. “You just find soldiers gathered in one place doing nothing,” he said.

He also alleged that he had been insulted because of his nationality, when security men asked him to “come identify this Egyptian corpse”.

“Why are they humiliating us like this? We are coming as pilgrims asking for nothing,” Hasan said angrily, urging the security forces to “organise the roads” to ensure the smooth movement of people.

Even before Thursday’s stoning tragedy, other pilgrims had complained of a lack of organisation.

Thursday’s tragedy occurred outside the five-storey Jamarat bridge, which was erected in the last decade at a cost of more than $1bn and intended to improve safety.

Almost a kilometre long, the Jamarat bridge allows 300,000 pilgrims an hour to carry out the ritual, in which they throw pebbles against walls.

An interior ministry spokesman, General Mansur al-Turki, said the stampede was caused when “a large number of pilgrims were in motion at the same time” at an intersection of two streets in Mina. “The great heat and fatigue of the pilgrims contributed to the large number of victims,” he said.

And one Saudi minister blamed the pilgrims for the tragedy, saying they had not followed hajj rules.

But in the view of an Egyptian worshipper who identified himself only by his first name, Ahmed, “the fault is not on the pilgrims”.

“Saudi Arabia is spending a lot on hajj but there is no organisation,” he said, complaining that the flow of people into and out of the tent camp needed to be better managed.

“They could make one road for those going and another for those returning,” Ahmed said. “If one policeman would stand at the start of every road and organise the pilgrims, none of this would happen.”

Muslim pilgrims sit by the site where pilgrims were crushed and trampled on Thursday. Photograph: Mosa'ab Elshamy/AP

The stoning ritual is supposed to continue on Friday and Saturday, but pilgrims said they were fearful of a repeat of Thursday’s deaths. Some put their faith in God, saying he would protect them.

“Of course we are afraid of tomorrow,” said Hasan, the Egyptian pilgrim. “I want to go do the stoning at night. I asked a cleric, he said it’s OK.”

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Sep 2015 15:41

Rus is taking a big risk concentrating so many a/c in the open air. building concrete HAS takes time and space seems limited, atleast disperse them around the place

if the ISIS or their benefactors provide a few Scuds to ISIS....we have seen in yemen war what that can do to open airbases.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 25 Sep 2015 15:42

Majed Abdulaziz Al-Saud has been arrested for allegedly forcing a worker at a Beverly Hills mansion to perform a sex act on him

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-cana ... icRSS20-sa

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Sep 2015 17:20

just as I predicted...

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/sau ... 02107.html

While Saudi Arabia on Friday suggested pilgrims failing to follow crowd control rules bore some blame for the stampede that claimed more than 700 lives, a report has blamed convoy of the son of the Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud for the tragedy.

The Arabic-language daily al-Diyar has said in a report that the convoy of Prince Mohammad bin Salman Al Saud played a key role in stampede on Thursday.

Notably, Saudi Arabia is under growing pressure to account for a crush that killed more than 700 people at the Hajj pilgrimage.

The kingdom`s regional rival Iran expressed indignation at the deaths of 131 of its nationals at the world`s largest annual gathering of people, and politicians in Tehran suggested Riyadh was incapable of managing the event.

Meanwhile, the report in the Lebanese daily said that Salman, accompanied by a huge entourage and tight security, arrived at Mina, about 5 kilometres from Mecca, early Thursday.

His presence led to a change in the direction of the movement of the pilgrims, which eventually led to the stampede.

The daily added that Salman and his entourage quickly abandoned the scene and the Saudi authorities are trying to crush the story.

However, officials in Saudi Arabia have denied the report.

In a statement posted on his ministry`s website, Saudi Health Minister Khalid al-Falih said an investigation would be conducted rapidly and a final toll of dead and wounded calculated. At least 863 pilgrims were injured.

Notably, safety during Hajj is politically sensitive for the kingdom`s ruling Al Saud dynasty, since the ruling family presents itself internationally as the guardian of orthodox Islam and custodian of its holiest places in Mecca and Medina.

With photographs of piles of the dead circulating on social media and pilgrims frantically searching for missing compatriots, the effort to uncover the facts and assign blame for the worst disaster at the event for 25 years was likely to grow more acute and possibly more political.

Saudi King Salman has, meanwhile, ordered a review of Hajj plans after the disaster, in which two big groups of pilgrims collided at a crossroads in Mina, a few km (miles) east of Mecca, on their way to performing the "stoning of the devil" ritual at Jamarat.

Iran`s President Hassan Rouhani, in New York to attend the UN General Assembly, echoed Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in blaming Saudi Arabia for the incident.

"I ask the Saudi Arabian government to take the responsibility of this catastrophe and fulfil its legal and Islamic duties in this regard," Rouhani said in a statement published on the state news agency IRNA.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Sep 2015 17:23

so it appears the al-saudi beat the woman when she refused to perform XXXXX

--from the LA times report--

Neighbor Tennyson Collins said a resident reported seeing a bleeding woman scream for help as she tried to scale the property’s 8-foot-high wall Wednesday afternoon.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Sep 2015 17:25

if this is happening in america, in beverly hills..where the law takes a dim view of such coercion , its hard to imagine what is happening in the the vast saudi royal compounds.

we already know the UAE prince who died had lost his chance to be king by killing a worker in the office.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 25 Sep 2015 18:58

U.S.: Russia jets tried stealth mode
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/24/politics/ ... index.html

A U.S. official told CNN Thursday that Russian fighter jets turned off their transponders as they flew into Syria in an apparent attempt to avoid detection. The official said the fighters flew very close to a transport plane that had its transponder on and functioning.

U.S. satellites rapidly saw that the aircraft were there, according to the official.

The CNN headline says the Russians "tried stealth mode" (inferring they tried and were caught), while a US official claims "U.S. satellites rapidly saw that the aircraft were there". This infers they noticed the Russian fighters on sat imagery only after they'd landed and taxied into their holding positions on the airfield, but CNN is trying to make it sound like US intel brilliantly spotted the Russian fighters in mid-air, foiling their dastardly ruse.

Sounds like sour grapes to me; the Russians clearly snuck their fighters in right under the noses of US surveillance, but they don't want to admit it.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 25 Sep 2015 19:05

Singha wrote:Rus is taking a big risk concentrating so many a/c in the open air. building concrete HAS takes time and space seems limited, atleast disperse them around the place

if the ISIS or their benefactors provide a few Scuds to ISIS....we have seen in yemen war what that can do to open airbases.

I was thinking the same thing, too, horrified at the spectacle of so many precious military aircraft bunched up at that airfield. But then I thought, it could be a trap to lure militants into attacking and exposing themselves. This would provide a perfect opportunity to pound them with artillery and MLRS fire, directed with greater accuracy thanks to Russian UAV's orbiting above. The Russians can use their helicopter gunships as well.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 25 Sep 2015 19:27

Austin wrote:Happens all the time now during Haj or Stoning of the Devil , this seems gross management by Saudi , but faithful are reassured that their death in mecca takes them to Jannat , Now who can argue with that.

Saudis are having a bad year.

kit · Post by **kit** » 25 Sep 2015 19:43

I think Russia does want to advertise its growing capability in the area .. if they are deploying in full sight of the satellites , that is ! .. mind that this build up has been going on for some time .. just like a game of cards , they are just showing a few ! interesting

kit · Post by **kit** » 25 Sep 2015 19:45

The Saudis habits remain the same .. its just that media (western) is reporting differently .. look at all the news for past one year

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 25 Sep 2015 20:22

How big is gathering at Kumbh Mela? Western media is going ga-ga- over 2 million Muslims gathering at one place etc etc

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Sep 2015 21:01

60 mil for bigger ones 30 for smaller..spread over 10 days ?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 25 Sep 2015 21:47

Kumbh Mela in numbers

Number expected to bathe: 100 million
Number of days: 55
Area: 20 sq km (4,932 acres)
Drinking water: 80 million litres
Toilets: 35,000
Doctors: 243
Police: 30,000
Number united at lost-and-found centre since 14 January: 40,000
Number treated at 14 hospitals: 152,326

For Prayagraj

Official site says 12 crore or 120 Mn visited during last Kumbh. Stampede at railway station had 36 killed. Azam Khan, who was in charge , had resigned over the incident.
http://kumbhmelaallahabad.gov.in/english/index.html

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 25 Sep 2015 23:20

Son Of Saudi King _Prince Salman - Responsible For Haj Stampede
Prince Salman convoy triggered Hajj stampede: Report

The presence of the convoy of the son of the Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud in central Mina prompted the stampede that killed hundreds of pilgrims on the outskirts of the holy city of Mecca, a report says.

The Arabic-language daily al-Diyar said in a report on Thursday that the convoy of Prince Mohammad bin Salman Al Saud played a central role in the deadly crush on the third day of the annual Hajj pilgrimage earlier in the day.

The report said that Salman, who had sought to attend the huge gathering of pilgrims in Mina, a large valley about five kilometers (three miles) from Mecca, arrived at the site early on Thursday accompanied by a huge entourage.

The report said 200 army forces and 150 police officers escorted the prince.

The report said the presence of the prince in the middle of the population prompted a change in the direction of the movement of the pilgrims and a stampede.

Iran's Deputy Foreign Minister for Arab and African Affairs Hossein Amir-Abdollahian said on Thursday that Saudi Arabia should be held accountable over the death of the pilgrims. He said that the fatal crush started after Saudi security forces blocked two streets while the pilgrims were walking towards the final ritual of the Hajj.

"We can by no means remain indifferent towards Saudi Arabia's irresponsible behavior," said Amir-Abdollahian, adding, “The tactlessness on the part of relevant Saudi authorities to provide security for the pilgrims cannot be overlooked.”

It is much better for the Muslim Ummah , if the organization of this annual ritual, is taken away from the arrogant/incompetent Saudi regime and handed over to a consortium/committee of Muslim/Arab nations.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 25 Sep 2015 23:31

Erdoğan says Saudi Arabia should not be blamed for Hajj deaths

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan defended on Friday Saudi Arabia in the face of growing international criticism, particularly by Iran, over deaths of more than 700 people at the Hajj pilgrimage, saying critics should recognize difficulties of managing such a massive event.

“There have been some negative approaches to this [the Hajj deaths]. Some have blamed management, some have said there were problems with the organization. I don't think such approaches are appropriate,” Erdoğan told reporters in İstanbul.But is not this person, a closet Islamist, and suspected of supporting ISIS and playing a double game with the West

More that 700 people suffocated or were trampled to death on Thursday when two waves of pilgrims collided in the deadliest disaster to strike the annual pilgrimage in a quarter-century.

Iran, Saudi Arabia's regional rival, strongly criticized Saudi Arabia for the stampede with politicians in Tehran suggesting that Riyadh was incapable of managing the event.

"I ask the Saudi Arabian government to take responsibility for this catastrophe and fulfill its legal and Islamic duties in this regard," Iranian President Hassan Rouhani said in a statement published on the state news agency IRNA.

But Erdoğan appeared to disagree. “Those who say these [criticisms] do not shoulder the responsibility. Such things happen during events across the world. One should see the glass half full in such situations,” he said. “I don't find it appropriate to directly blame Saudi Arabia. Every country might have similar deficiencies.”

What is the Quid Pro Quo here - subsidized oil, construction contracts in SA, Saudi investment in Turkey