Indian Space Programme Discussion

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Sep 2015 10:31

This must be a new record for the fewest number of posts here during the immediate period after a PSLV launch. After a while there will be just one announcing the launch success.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 28 Sep 2015 10:39

Congrats ISRO!

double the number of launches in next two years.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 28 Sep 2015 10:46

ISRO testing a new payload fairing for the LVM3

via http://www.aame.in/2015/09/a-new-payloa ... -lvm3.html

ISRO had contemplated a GSLV variant that used 6 strap-on boosters

The core with six ASLV type strap-ons, symbolically represented as (S125 + 6S9) + L37.5 + C12, is capable of launching 1,500 kg payloads into Geostationary Transfer Orbit (GTO) which forms the Mark 1 version of GSLV

via http://www.aame.in/2015/09/this-gslv-va ... never.html

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Sep 2015 10:49

PSLV launch YAWN. wake me up when a garuthma launched from a su30 navigates using IRNSS guidance through a zig zag of waypoints to 100km and smacks a 1000lb hit on a bunker in the pokhran range. some of the waypoints should also have intense signals jamming for the weapon to work through.

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Sep 2015 13:13

I suppose the ASTROSAT would give India a Keyhole reconnaissance satellite capability ?

srin · Post by **srin** » 28 Sep 2015 13:19

Benefits of Astrosat to Indian scientists:http://www.nature.com/news/indian-astro ... om-1.18406

Without a space telescope of their own, Indian scientists have had to rely on ones operated by NASA and the European Space Agency (ESA) to study such radiation bands, which carry information about exotic neutron stars, newly born or exploding stars and the spiralling hot gases around black holes.

“Often, as we do not know the exact specifics of the telescope design, we are not able to tune our research proposals accordingly,” says Varun Bhalerao, an astrophysicist at India’s Inter-University Centre for Astronomy and Astrophysics (IUCAA) in Pune.

Indian astronomers have long been at a disadvantage for X-ray and ultraviolet studies, says Somak Raychaudhury, who is the director of the IUCAA and has been involved with ASTROSAT since its inception. Orbiting 650 kilometres above Earth, ASTROSAT will collect data on this portion of the light spectrum, giving Indian scientists faster — and guaranteed — access to the information. They will also have privileged access. “Everybody, senior or junior scientists, is talking about studies they can now propose,” adds Bhalerao, who is excited about studying neutron stars from India without having to wait for international support. Bhalerao has been studying these stellar objects using high-energy X-ray wavelengths with NASA’s Nuclear Spectroscopic Array (NuSTAR) at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, and is looking forward to extending that study to the lower-energy X-ray and ultraviolet bands that will be available through ASTROSAT.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 28 Sep 2015 15:33

Congrats ISRO.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 28 Sep 2015 16:31

http://isro.org/pslv-c30-astrosat-missi ... ined-video

ISRO/DECU has put out a video explaining Astrosat in more detail.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Sep 2015 16:48

Singha wrote:PSLV launch YAWN. wake me up when a garuthma launched from a su30 navigates using IRNSS guidance through a zig zag of waypoints to 100km and smacks a 1000lb hit on a bunker in the pokhran range. some of the waypoints should also have intense signals jamming for the weapon to work through.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 28 Sep 2015 17:09

Congrats ISRO.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 28 Sep 2015 18:16

I am waiting for the day when people get banned for posting needless congrats to ISRO for their routine and boring success! But in the meanwhile Congrats and hoping DRDO will be fast reaching the same standards.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 28 Sep 2015 18:43

kit wrote:I suppose the ASTROSAT would give India a Keyhole reconnaissance satellite capability ?

Yes but you need to closely look at the payloads, one from TIFR would mean something else

I presume, ISRO is seeding a capability drive to understand nuclear explosions, nuclear iron presence, tracking nuclear material transfer, things like that. Naming it as Astrosat, is to make all these benign, like PNE, my 2 paise

Congrats to ISRO anyday

Gyan wrote:I am waiting for the day when people get banned for posting needless congrats to ISRO for their routine and boring success! But in the meanwhile Congrats and hoping DRDO will be fast reaching the same standards.

I am graciously accepting to be the first victim for congratulating ISRO's success

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 28 Sep 2015 18:58

Infact ISRO has experience doing something like this earlier

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stretched ... ite_Series

And read this together with what PNVR attempted to do in the strategic space when SROSS C2 was up in space. Now that we have something much more powerful in space, I speculate that something is in works in the strategic space. Any way its a speculation

adding to this is that Jaitley was the minister for defence and finance for a considerable amount of time

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Sep 2015 19:25

I recently read a funny comment somewhere (or saw it on Youtube). It was someone accusing the Russians of launching a satellite based space observation telescope and turning it towards earth. But seriously I can't see why an "Astrosat" can't look at earth by mishtake once in a while

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 28 Sep 2015 19:31

Just saw the launch video of PSLV C30 and found claps were few, toned down, as every PSLV launch is turning into naarmal naarmal. The new "josh" is gonna be on next workhorse-GSLVs.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 28 Sep 2015 19:51

shiv wrote:I recently read a funny comment somewhere (or saw it on Youtube). It was someone accusing the Russians of launching a satellite based space observation telescope and turning it towards earth. But seriously I can't see why an "Astrosat" can't look at earth by mishtake once in a while

No its by design, actually by Satellite's thermal design, when you look too much at earth, the components gets heated up, to cool that they are pointed to space, once it cools down the cycle continues. By doing this both sides of a satellite will have optimal thermal exposure

All US space based telescopes are based on spy satellite designs and they also look down to earth frequently. Remember the satellites that Indians tried to avoid in 1998 for a special event

A Deshmukh · Post by **A Deshmukh** » 28 Sep 2015 21:50

Congratulations ISRO. Good work.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 28 Sep 2015 23:15

Did you guys listen to the speeches post launch in the DD live coverage ? There is a bigger badder ASTROSAT coming soon as a follow on mission. Kasturirangan like always spoke very eloquently.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 28 Sep 2015 23:54

All US space based telescopes are based on spy satellite designs and they also look down to earth frequently.

No they are not based on spy satellites and no, they do not look down at earth unless their original mission is stated to do so, such as weather, digital mapping, etc.

The Hubble does not function the way spy sats function, it looks through the end of the telescope. Spy sats built at Hubble's time frame (1970s) look through the side of the scope. You can google this yourself.

NASA has been given two spy sats recently by the National Reconn Office but they are incomplete, need avionics and camera instruments and of course a ride up to orbit. in other words billions pf dollars. they got some real nice mirrors though. They sit in NASA storage.

there have been other highly specialized scopes such as Kepler, Chandra, Spitzer, etc., but the instruments on them are geared for scientific experiments.

the big NASA budget buster is the James Webb telescope still in assembly process. it will be placed in deep space where it is suitably cold enough.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Sep 2015 00:02

I agree, these are just science missions. Not interchangeable. There are other dedicated sats for mil use anyway. Can you imagine the fuel spent to maneuver the beast, even if not Hubble size ... will not even last 5yrs in orbit then most likely.

kit · Post by **kit** » 29 Sep 2015 00:11

I rather think that basic blocks in place .. a 60 or a hundred feet radar antenna ..um "unfurlable" and a bigger astrosat geared towards gamma rays and UV would be good at detecting a great many things in the earth

kit · Post by **kit** » 29 Sep 2015 00:12

just for curiosity sake , does the ISRO make any launches that are not publicized ?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Sep 2015 01:16

I am pretty sure that even observing time slots are already booked by now for 5 yrs.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 29 Sep 2015 01:47

kit wrote:just for curiosity sake , does the ISRO make any launches that are not publicized ?

Only the sounding rockets, even a few of them are reported. BTW, there was no mention of the RLV TD-1 test after the Astrosat launch. That should be coming up anytime between Oct-Dec.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 Sep 2015 01:47

<double post

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Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 29 Sep 2015 02:31

Industry contribution to Isro launches goes up, but agency to keep systems’ brain.

With 70% of the control systems on the PSLV-C30 having come from private industries, Isro's goal of having an industry-built launch vehicle has come closer to realization. Isro has been talking about this for more than half a decade now.

"At any PSLV launch now more than 150 industries, big and small contribute to the vehicle. Some of the key contributors have been L&T, Godrej among others," Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre director K Sivan said. He added that defence PSU HAL also contributes to Isro.

Isro chairman AS Kiran Kumar said: "In the next 4-5 years we will see a launch vehicle that is built by the industry. We also want them to be able to assemble it and launch."

While this is encouraging for the industry, which is already gaining a lot of exposure, a senior scientist said: "We are also looking at our industry contributing systems to foreign vehicles in the future like many of the US industries do."

He said continuous co-operation with Isro would give the industry the confidence it needs and the learning to supply to the world.

However, speaking to TOI on what kind of role the industry can play in the future, senior scientist M Annadurai said: "We are very encouraged with their ability and commitment. But one must understand that not everything will go to the private sector."

Quoting PSLV's example, he said: "This platform, for example, has put satellites in so many orbits, including launching the Mars mission. It is capable of doing this because of complex systems that are configured specifically for each mission. So, what Isro will want to retain with itself is this advantage."

"The brain of the system will not be made by the industry, that will always remain with Isro," he said.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 29 Sep 2015 02:55

Vipul wrote:Industry contribution to Isro launches goes up, but agency to keep systems’ brain.

With 70% of the control systems on the PSLV-C30 having come from private industries, Isro's goal of having an industry-built launch vehicle has come closer to realization. Isro has been talking about this for more than half a decade now.

"At any PSLV launch now more than 150 industries, big and small contribute to the vehicle. Some of the key contributors have been L&T, Godrej among others," Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre director K Sivan said. He added that defence PSU HAL also contributes to Isro.

Isro chairman AS Kiran Kumar said: "In the next 4-5 years we will see a launch vehicle that is built by the industry. We also want them to be able to assemble it and launch."

While this is encouraging for the industry, which is already gaining a lot of exposure, a senior scientist said: "We are also looking at our industry contributing systems to foreign vehicles in the future like many of the US industries do."

He said continuous co-operation with Isro would give the industry the confidence it needs and the learning to supply to the world.

However, speaking to TOI on what kind of role the industry can play in the future, senior scientist M Annadurai said: "We are very encouraged with their ability and commitment. But one must understand that not everything will go to the private sector."

Quoting PSLV's example, he said: "This platform, for example, has put satellites in so many orbits, including launching the Mars mission. It is capable of doing this because of complex systems that are configured specifically for each mission. So, what Isro will want to retain with itself is this advantage."

"The brain of the system will not be made by the industry, that will always remain with Isro," he said.

Haha, this is what I've been talking about wrt to HAL and other PSUs. So in other words, we'll be lead integrator and innovator and still guarantee ourselves revenue flow by letting you manufacture non-critical parts and assemble. So much for promoting innovation across the board. Instead they could just share (sell) the know how for the complex systems to a select 2-3 companies but that would effectively kill them.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 29 Sep 2015 05:28

I dont think they are talking about keeping the revenue flow for themselves.

My hunch is that a bunch of blue print to produce a couple of variations of PSLV will be shared. There will be specs and tolerance on each part and a they will also provide a mission computer with the mission profile programmed into it.

The infrastructure that produced the metallurgy, milling, plumbing, engine design, orbit injection algorithms, launch sequences, etc probably wont be shared.

You can make money with it and that is what the pvt sector cares about. You cant do much more than that without building the infra for it. The infra is always a govt. effort anywhere, be it in the US, China, Russia, Japan etc.

srin · Post by **srin** » 29 Sep 2015 08:21

RoyG wrote:
Haha, this is what I've been talking about wrt to HAL and other PSUs. So in other words, we'll be lead integrator and innovator and still guarantee ourselves revenue flow by letting you manufacture non-critical parts and assemble. So much for promoting innovation across the board. Instead they could just share (sell) the know how for the complex systems to a select 2-3 companies but that would effectively kill them.

If ISRO has to sell the know-how to a private company, where is the "innovation" ? Forget launchers (which is what puts us in the big boys club), just look at the satellites - how many of the cubesats that PSLV has launched belong to a private company ?

SSSalvi · Post by **SSSalvi** » 29 Sep 2015 08:24

So our speculation was right.

There are 8 objects ( 7 sats + Sat release mechanism ) attributed to the launch 2015-52. ( 52nd launch worldwide of 2015 ) in NEAR EQUATORIAL launch.

All bodies have inclination of 6 deg wrt equator.

So piggybacks will drift to their polar orbits on their own...

.

More details follow later.

srin · Post by **srin** » 29 Sep 2015 08:33

shiv wrote:I recently read a funny comment somewhere (or saw it on Youtube). It was someone accusing the Russians of launching a satellite based space observation telescope and turning it towards earth. But seriously I can't see why an "Astrosat" can't look at earth by mishtake once in a while

There are a few technical problems with that: X-Rays and many bands of UV are absorbed by the atmosphere, restricting ground observation to a few UV bands. But I do think ballistic missile launch detectors use UV sensors, so there are military application.
Now comes the logistics part. The telescope time would be booked many months in advance to view a particular part of the sky. So, collecting ground data would be unreliable at best for the strategic users, who would want it systematic.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 29 Sep 2015 09:11

TSJones wrote:
All US space based telescopes are based on spy satellite designs and they also look down to earth frequently.
No they are not based on spy satellites and no, they do not look down at earth unless their original mission is stated to do so, such as weather, digital mapping, etc.

The Hubble does not function the way spy sats function, it looks through the end of the telescope. Spy sats built at Hubble's time frame (1970s) look through the side of the scope. You can google this yourself.

NASA has been given two spy sats recently by the National Reconn Office but they are incomplete, need avionics and camera instruments and of course a ride up to orbit. in other words billions pf dollars. they got some real nice mirrors though. They sit in NASA storage.

there have been other highly specialized scopes such as Kepler, Chandra, Spitzer, etc., but the instruments on them are geared for scientific experiments.

the big NASA budget buster is the James Webb telescope still in assembly process. it will be placed in deep space where it is suitably cold enough.

Regarding Hubble,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Space_Telescope

Hubble's low orbit means many targets are visible for somewhat less than half of an orbit's elapsed time, since they are blocked from view by the Earth for one-half of each orbit.

If the FGSs are turned off, however, the Moon and Earth can be observed. Earth observations were used very early in the program to generate flat-fields for the WFPC1 instrument.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Sep 2015 09:41

the hubble and astrosat are in similar orbit..the astrosat is some 150km higher. per TOI, thought its much smaller the power generation of both are comparable around 2200W. of other sats in similar genre, the power is less.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Sep 2015 09:44

a good first step for industry is not building launch vehicles but building and selling parts of satellites and scientific payloads around the world. these low volume long lead items are probably quite costly. same level of technology can probably be used in flying aircraft payloads , hazardous areas, oil, mining, deep sea ....

why is it that we do not have a single pvt maker of small satellites , or UUV or even a toy drone seller that sells worldwide(china has the 2 big ones).

these are lesser challenges.

disha · Post by **disha** » 29 Sep 2015 09:53

RoyG wrote:
Quoting PSLV's example, he said: "This platform, for example, has put satellites in so many orbits, including launching the Mars mission. It is capable of doing this because of complex systems that are configured specifically for each mission. So, what Isro will want to retain with itself is this advantage."

"The brain of the system will not be made by the industry, that will always remain with Isro," he said.
Haha, this is what I've been talking about wrt to HAL and other PSUs. So in other words, we'll be lead integrator and innovator and still guarantee ourselves revenue flow by letting you manufacture non-critical parts and assemble. So much for promoting innovation across the board. Instead they could just share (sell) the know how for the complex systems to a select 2-3 companies but that would effectively kill them.

First., do I sense a derision towards ISRO? Second., because ISRO is another government funded and run agency., do I think that it can be derisively compared to any other government PSU? Like SBI? Or LIC?

Third., what do you think is a brain of a rocket. This is a serious question - since you assume that giving it to "select" 2-3 companies *will* promote innovation. So the question begets what is the brain of a rocket and what new innovation needs to be carried out for those "brains".

Fourth., what are the NON-critical parts in a rocket? I thought given my limited experience that each and every part in a rocket is critical. Including for example the shrouds around inter-stages. So I will love to learn what are NON-Critical parts on a space launch system (note the word space launch system). I am widening the scope to not just include the rocket but the system that integrates the rocket, like the vehicle assembly building and all nuts and bolts that go into it.

You can chose to ignore First and Second items above. However would like to know your ideas on the Third and Fourth.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 29 Sep 2015 10:47

I am not seeing any Indian pvt company innovating in the space area. They should start building satellites and launch vehicle parts and then move on to bigger things like creating a new space vehicle, which ultimately would be the aim

One area they can chart a new path is the space tourism. Once RLV is successful, it could be spun as a space tourist vehicle and frequent launches done from a new space port (instead of Sriharikota). The pvt companies can do better marketing than ISRO / Antrix on that

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 29 Sep 2015 12:36

symontk wrote: Regarding Hubble,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Space_Telescope

Hubble's low orbit means many targets are visible for somewhat less than half of an orbit's elapsed time, since they are blocked from view by the Earth for one-half of each orbit.

If the FGSs are turned off, however, the Moon and Earth can be observed. Earth observations were used very early in the program to generate flat-fields for the WFPC1 instrument.

the above statements do not support your assertion that:

All US space based telescopes are based on spy satellite designs and they also look down to earth frequently.

the DOD space budget is about 1.5 times NASA's budget. which indicates the depth of DoD resources that are being committed to space.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 29 Sep 2015 16:46

To justify the budget NASA just informed the world that there was water on Mars. Astronomers in burkino-Faso concluded this long time ago

SSSalvi · Post by **SSSalvi** » 29 Sep 2015 18:41

Iinternational tribunal has asked the commercial arm of the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) to pay Bengaluru-based space technology firm Devas Multimedia Pvt. Ltd $672 million in damages for cancelling a contract four years ago on grounds of national security.

The Cabinet Committee on Security scrapped the deal in 2011 on the grounds that it was not in the security interests of the country

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 29 Sep 2015 19:22

rsingh wrote:To justify the budget NASA just informed the world that there was water on Mars. Astronomers in burkino-Faso concluded this long time ago

we knew there was water at the polar ice caps. we did not know if there was water else where. we could not find any evidence of this until recently.

http://science.nasa.gov/missions/phoenix/