West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Nov 2015 07:49

how do the arab nations source their fresh water? do they use expensive fossil fuel to run desalination plants or something abundant like solar ? from what I understand they are not self-sufficient in any food except dates ? their population and construction boom is a artificial thing not based on natural environment just oil revenue...kind of like oil & mining towns in the north of canada and alaska...nobody would want to live there in normal course.

in future africa (has vast freshwater lakes in the uplands), canada-US, brazil could be the water superpowers and ship water in tankers like crude oil is done today.

I am thinking eventually we will need unmanned tankers run on nuclear or renewable energy that will wander the worlds oceans chasing the best sunlight and winds and use that energy to gradually desalinate sea water and top up with fresh water. once topped up, they sail straight home to unload and then head out again...dont think glaciers and fresh water lakes are going to be enough. hulls can be very light composite since any leak is just water. this is a task ripe for automation and unmanning.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 03 Nov 2015 08:31

there is no good reason why they can't use solar power to distill/reverse osmosis salt water to fresh water.

yes, it's expensive but once the investment is made, there is very little variable cost there after, other than routine maintenance.

same for California.

It's ridiculous that sunny climates like the ME and California don't rely more on solar power especially for water purification/distillation.

Electricity is more of a problem with night down time, but water can be stored for overnight use.

evidently it is extremely hard to do out of the box thinking for public works.

they rather build artificial islands for rich people to build condos on which are hardly ever used most of the year.

or in the case of California, build aqueducts hundreds of miles across the desert draining other communities' local water like Mono lake or Colorado river. much more convenient.

If Modiji has got the mojo, he will take the solar power tech and bring water to parts of India that need it desperately. Only time will tell.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 03 Nov 2015 12:37

There are several solar desalination plants operating/under construction in the ME already. One problem with desalination plants is that they dump megatons of salt back into the general ocean vicinity, rendering the ocean, well... rather salty. The dead fish will come pre-pickled and float to the surface, making it unnecessary to go out and exert oneself fishing.

Or they could use the gas that they burn off the oil wells to run these plants.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 03 Nov 2015 13:03

they could always do a salt landfill in the desert for future generations to mine 'rock salt' from

habal · Post by **habal** » 03 Nov 2015 13:08

Saudi M1Abrams takes a houthi ATGM hit

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 03 Nov 2015 13:15

Lalmohan wrote:they could always do a salt landfill in the desert for future generations to mine 'rock salt' from

I think you've got it.

build salt evaporation ponds and line them with impermeable clay like they do with waste/sanitary landfills in the US.

eventually somebody will think about using the residual salt for something.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Nov 2015 13:19

yes the flared associated gas which has lower calorific value vs CNG/LPG can still be used to generate electric power for desalination.
in ONGC/OIL townships in india, employee housing gets this free piped gas...takes longer than LPG to cook but hey its free ... some people keep it on low flame all the time allegedly for fear of gas leakage due to spike in pressure. those were days when my Ma had to line up every 3 weeks for hours infant of our gas agency to get a single cylinder of LPG, so my jaw dropped at this luxury. I did not know piped gas is routine in the west.

there can be network of undersea pipelines leading from these desalination plants to avoid depositing the salt nearby only....mix it with sea water and pump it out tens of km into the sea.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 03 Nov 2015 14:37

Singha wrote:how do the arab nations source their fresh water? do they use expensive fossil fuel to run desalination plants or something abundant like solar ?

GCC countries based with cheap energy use desalination for generating water. Which is subsidized and given to populace. Have a look through this promo video of Ras Afflan from Qatar to get an idea.

Normally these projects are setup as IWPP (Independent Water and Power Project). The energy needs even using vaccum desalination, RO and other techniques is so humongous that they have captive power plants to cater to them- Hence the IWPP nomenclature. In my opinion, water subsidies through high oil earnings have fueled an unsustainable boom that cannot be served in the future with double whammy of high demand and low revenues from an oil economy in face of oil price crash.

Another resource has been groundwater (Especially Saudi and interiors). Countries have seriously depleted them. For example Saudi Arabia through use of groundwater had become the 6th largest wheat exporter in mid 90's, and even today runs one of the largest dairiesin the world. But these unsustainable practices have put at risk the future.

Interested readers can look up this slightly dated paperon water usage and trends in GCC.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 03 Nov 2015 14:43

Sorry for going on and on this topic. But would suggest looking at this presentation which presents a composite and recent picture along with future trends for Water Resource Management in GCC.

WATER RESOURCE MANAGEMENT CHALLENGES & WATER SECURITY

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 03 Nov 2015 14:56

Mukesh Kumar ji,
Sorry for going OT, is there any paper on water management IN China?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Nov 2015 15:59

@2700mw it is consuming nearly half the amt taken by delhi

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 03 Nov 2015 17:49

they could always do a salt landfill in the desert for future generations to mine 'rock salt' from

or put them in many holes and use them as salt batteries. Useful to mass-electrocute wimmens who go around exposing their ankles etc. Or generate hydrochloric acid vats in which to dip them. This IS Saudi Arabia we are talking about - you have to set every solution in context.
Now that I think about it - with all those Colombian Crusaders running around (mohtermas in Colombia may cover their ankles but not a whole lot else) how ARE they dealing with the desecration of the Holy Lands? Another Shiekh Obsama rising?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 03 Nov 2015 18:10

Shake cumbia al bailadori

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 03 Nov 2015 18:22

Saudi Arabia will raise the price of water for non-residential consumers, local media reported, a sign the government is cutting back an expensive system of subsidies as low oil prices strain its finances. (reuters.com)

Financial crunch : (a) As a result of falling oil prices (b) As a result of Yemen misadventure

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 03 Nov 2015 19:39

panduranghari wrote:Mukesh Kumar ji,
Sorry for going OT, is there any paper on water management IN China?

Googly Mamu to rescue. Interesting set of infographics.

Source: Seems to be a non-profit funded by a Hong Kong based environmental organization who uses data provided by Institute of Public and Environmental Affairs (IPE) - Beijing. They also have an online water database and can be a sourrce for monitoring pollution in China.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 03 Nov 2015 19:44

Singha wrote:@2700mw it is consuming nearly half the amt taken by delhi

Singhaji, thanks for pointing this out. Sometimes we see numbers without realizing their size. Half of Delhi's power consumption.

Puts it squarely in perspective. Dread to think what's going to happen in India with our population and constraints the moment the Himalayan watershed is compromised. Or, the pressure that will start mounting from Pakistan for IWT & Kashmir.

Code: Select all

A_Gupta 	
 Post subject: Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22
PostPosted: 29 Jun 2015 04:52 pm 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31 am
Posts: 7694 	
Michael Kugelman:
http://www.dawn.com/news/1191022
Quote:
Pakistan has the world’s fourth highest rate of water use. Its water intensity rate — the amount of water, in cubic metres, used per unit of GDP — is the world’s highest. This suggests that no country’s economy is more water-intensive than Pakistan’s.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 03 Nov 2015 20:45

OT but the other thing to remember about china is the boundary of the even rainfall area - its correlation with rice culture and the traditional Han homelands
outside of this wet zone lies the outer limits of the empire and the realms of the barbarians

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Nov 2015 11:03

"The ars* that launched a thousand air strikes"...is dead,at last!

Ahmed Chalabi,will go down in history as one of its most despicable liars and cheats,a man responsible in large measure for the deaths of millions of Iraqis and the aftermath of that unholy ,illegal war.Along with Dubya Bush and Tony B.Liar,Chalabi,a crook to book, was the man presented to the world as the authority on Saddam's (absent) WMDs,which was the prime justification of the invasion of Iraq. Even Bush Sr. got the UN to sanction GW 1 to throw Saddam out of Kuwait which he'd invaded after a dispute with the arrogant Kuwaitis over their illegal slant drilling of Iraq's oil.Chalabi had his own machiavellian agenda for Iraq post-invasion and Saddam overthrow.But for all his intrigue and guile,events on the ground ran away from him and he was firmly exposed for his multitudinous sins.

Ahmed Chalabi: The man who invited America to invade Iraq
Some say he was a relentless activist who would stop at nothing to overthrow Saddam Hussein. Others blame him for the disastrous 2003 invasion of Iraq. Patrick Cockburn remembers a much-maligned but highly motivated man
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 20056.html

American officials were suspicious of Ahmad Chalabi AP

Ahmed Chalabi, who died of a heart attack in Baghdad on Tuesday aged 71, was one of the ablest, most maligned and misunderstood figures to play a central role in the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and the shaping of modern Iraq.

Chalabi was a man of the highest intelligence and mental agility, who attracted many friends and allies, but also many enemies. These were very diverse and ranged from Saddam Hussein to the CIA and the British Foreign Office, all of whom denounced him furiously.
Read more
Profile: The saviour of Iraq, or a chancer whose time has come?

A diplomat in Baghdad once told me: “I think that Chalabi is pure evil,” before going on to laud an Iraqi politician of notorious incompetence and corruption as the potential saviour of his country.

People always had strong opinions about Chalabi because he had a personality that nobody could ignore and because he was undoubtedly effective. He spent much of his life in a relentless campaign to overthrow Saddam Hussein and was uncaring about the methods he used to achieve these ends. He was ever the activist.

The accusation made against Chalabi after 2003 was that he had lured the US and its allies into a disastrous invasion of Iraq by fabricating or manipulating evidence that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction (WMD). In time, he became the scapegoat for politicians and journalists looking for somebody else to blame for their own failures and falsehoods.

Ahmed Chalabi, a member of the Unified Iraqi Alliance, in the Shia Muslim city of Najaf in 2005 before the Shias came to power for the first time in an Arab country in more than 1,000 years (Getty)

The charge seemed to me to be absurd because it is the business of the political exile to pass on damaging information, true or false, about the government he or she is trying to overthrow. Only the laziest or most naïve of journalists should have imagined that information put their way by Chalabi – or any other Iraqi exile – was non-partisan.
Read more

Chalabi offers the White House an exit route from Iraqi quagmire
Chalabi announces intentions to play role in Iraq's political process
Chalabi attacked on road to inaugural assembly meeting
Chalabi wanted on counterfeiting charges
Chalabi falls from grace as US spy row erupts
US paid $1m for 'useless intelligence' from Chalabi
No fanfare as Chalabi returns to Iraq

The son of a wealthy Baghdad family, Chalabi fled Iraq as a teenager when the monarchy was overthrown. He earned a bachelor’s degree from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1965, and then went on to get a PhD in mathematics at the University of Chicago.

I first met him in London in about 1992 when he had set up the Iraqi National Congress (INC) as an umbrella organisation for opposition to Saddam. The Iraqi leader had crushed the Shia and Kurdish uprisings in 1991 and it was evident to all his opponents that the only way to get rid of him was to get the Americans to invade Iraq. Chalabi’s objective was the same as that of the others, and he differed from them only in the care and hard work he put into achieving this end.

He moved to Washington, cultivated politicians and journalists and worked with American political lobbyists. He mingled with anybody who would listen, but particularly with Republicans. He helped pass the Iraqi Liberation Act in 1998, committing the US to replacing Iraq’s regime with a democracy, but it is worth keeping in mind that none of this would have led to the US invading Iraq if it had not been for 9/11.

I saw Chalabi many times during these years and always found his political judgement very clear, except in matters concerning his own political career. I remember him once saying to me about Iraq that “it is almost impossible to overthrow a government in power that is guarded by a violent, pro-active intelligence service”. This seemed strange since he had in fact been trying to do just that when based in Iraqi Kurdistan, plotting to start an insurgency against Saddam or foment a mutiny in the Iraqi army. I suspected that the aim of these machinations was to entangle the Americans once again in Iraq, but none these schemes worked.

The US-led invasion of 2003 was in a sense the high tide and the turn for Chalabi: he and the Americans had used each other, but had never trusted each other. He would say to me later that the big problem for the US was the same in 2003 as it had been in 1991, at the end of the Gulf war: if America got rid of Saddam Hussein’s regime, then its natural successor would be a Shia government (since the Shia make up 60 per cent of the Iraqi population) which would be close to Iran. The American solution to this problem was not only to invade Iraq but to occupy, and this was the origin of all subsequent calamities.

One reason so many American officials did not like Chalabi was that they did not control him and much preferred proxies whom they could order about. They were suspicious of his openly good relations with Iran, though in fact the US badly needed a conduit to Tehran. Chalabi’s abilities counted against him because his energy and intelligence frightened potential rivals who combined to exclude him from power.

The other charge brought against him was that he was corrupt. That accusation was always a bit rich coming from Iraqi politicians who had miraculously turned themselves into multimillionaires after a short time in office. The allegations usually revolved around the collapse of the Petra Bank in Jordan in the 1980s and Chalabi always denied wrongdoing, saying the bank had been targeted by other Jordanian banks and state officials.

Most of this time he stayed in Baghdad and, at one moment, was running a system of emergency committees. Once, I went with him to a bridge over the Tigris River that had been destroyed by a truck bomb and he was looking to see how it might be reconstructed. I was very conscious that the far side of the river at that time was in the hands of insurgents whose snipers could easily identify Chalabi. I lurked behind a broken pier of the bridge until he had finished his inspection.

His political vision remained clear to the end and early last year he told me that the Iraqi army would collapse as soon as it was attacked by the forerunners of Isis. I could not quite believe this but a few months later they captured Mosul and established the Islamic State.

srin · Post by **srin** » 04 Nov 2015 13:24

^^^ Well, his actions make more sense if you just think of him as an Iranian agent.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 04 Nov 2015 17:01

"The ars* that launched a thousand air strikes"

Can't blame him entirely, he was just used as a ~~front~~ (backside). 450% reliable info says that when Al Colin Bin Powell slammed the desk at the UNSC in 2003 with those "Satellite Photos of Iraqi WMD" the most surprised people were those who recognized those photos - at the SDOTUS among other places. They were from 1990. So it was all 470 percent deliberate on the part of the WHOTUS, SeeAiyyeh etc. What does a refugee such as Chalabi (he was then a refugee) get to say against that? They could put him on a plane to Saddam's Bag-dad in a flash it he didn't cooperate and no one would even hear his screams.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Nov 2015 17:28

i still remember the photoshoot of jalebi and his special companions arriving in bag-dad on sea-yen-yen. lots of dark glasses and swagger
it was obvious just from that video clip that this was an off-cut from a comedy show
he's probably laughing in jannat now

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 04 Nov 2015 19:09

UlanBatori wrote:
"The ars* that launched a thousand air strikes"

Can't blame him entirely, he was just used as a ~~front~~ (backside). 450% reliable info says that when Al Colin Bin Powell slammed the desk at the UNSC in 2003 with those "Satellite Photos of Iraqi WMD" the most surprised people were those who recognized those photos - at the SDOTUS among other places. They were from 1990. So it was all 470 percent deliberate on the part of the WHOTUS, SeeAiyyeh etc. What does a refugee such as Chalabi (he was then a refugee) get to say against that? They could put him on a plane to Saddam's Bag-dad in a flash it he didn't cooperate and no one would even hear his screams.

He was peechaddi in Mathematics from U Chicago which means he was pretty intellectually fit or he was groomed for long for a role. 100% shia.

Zalmay Khalizaad is his afghan counterpart of similar profile. 100% sunni.

ashvin · Post by **ashvin** » 04 Nov 2015 19:49

One of the images with Jalebi swaggering his way around is in this link ....
SOURCE:http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/ahmed- ... ies-at-71/

habal · Post by **habal** » 06 Nov 2015 05:00

breaking news: KSA threatens to attack 2 Russian 1 omani airplanes if they take off, planes carried humanitarian supplies to Yemen. Pilots refuse inspection. This is escalating, keep eye, Russia looks like it's serious.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 06 Nov 2015 05:30

Hmm, Saudi patriot missiles have already intercepted two Houthi scud missiles fired from Yemen this year.

The Saudis could fold like a deck of cards in front of the Russians and probably will, but still..... they've got assets as well as a certain somebody in Qatar, UAE, and Kuwait to back them up. They're not exactly alone.

I highly doubt this is going to get too serious.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 06 Nov 2015 06:16

TSJones wrote:The Saudis could fold like a deck of cards in front of the Russians and probably will, but still..... they've got assets as well as a certain somebody in Qatar, UAE, and Kuwait to back them up. They're not exactly alone.

and you are happy and/or proud about it? They are not really our friends which has been amply demonstrated by FLOTUS when she was there and most did not deign to shake her hands.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 06 Nov 2015 06:58

habal wrote:breaking news: KSA threatens to attack 2 Russian 1 omani airplanes if they take off, planes carried humanitarian supplies to Yemen. Pilots refuse inspection. This is escalating, keep eye, Russia looks like it's serious.

Habalji: link pls?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Nov 2015 07:05

FLOTUS look of disgust was epic. she was yanked from a nice tour of the Taj to riyadh to pay homage to the dead warlord and tolerate his misogynistic elite golden horde.

a trip to chucky cheese probably looked more appealing

member_29228 · Post by **member_29228** » 06 Nov 2015 07:45

Can any body hazard a guess as to where the next brand new POTUS will start a war to prove he / she is macho enough to lead and possibly win a Nobel,peace prize?

In this season of return awards will Ombaba express his intolerance to Russian aggression and return Nobel peace prize?

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 06 Nov 2015 07:49

If the late Shree Chalabi could single-handedly convince US Govt (and its entire national security apparatus) to indulge in a trillion dollar invasion, then it means he is fantastic and his methods be studied carefully. We shall also convince the US to attack the bakis, by showing them The Good (book writing), Bad (taliban with kebab-scented beard) and the ugly (guys who attend droned weddings) Haqqani photos with a "Radioactive" watermark for subliminal messaging to Bush family. That Jeb Bush looks sufficiently pie-eyed

So why are we calling him names?

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 06 Nov 2015 07:52

Is this brf or reddit's bakchod thread? and us is already attacking pukistan, while arming it with f-18s and nukes

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 06 Nov 2015 08:12

I think Russia should cruise missile ISIS oil infra assets in Iraq.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 06 Nov 2015 08:26

If it turns out that ISIS bombed the airliner, the Russians will hit a civilian target of one of their backers for sure. All the US can do is sit and wait till it happens. I think the Turks and Saudis are sh*tting bricks now. If they don't put an end to their proxy war in Iraq and Syria, the Russians along with Iran will expand the Yemen conflict and will throw away the idea of the Sunni buffer state.

member_29228 · Post by **member_29228** » 06 Nov 2015 08:32

If even an iota of proof emerges that KSA Turkey Qatar Jordan or Israel GOTUS were involved
Russia might open a new front in Yemen, encourage Kurds to take on directly Turkey and transfer Nuke tech to Iran.
In any case Russia believes KSA is closet Nuke possessed power along with Israel in ME.

I could be utterly wrong and I am usually so.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 06 Nov 2015 08:57

Russia does not have the budget to prosecute a two-front expeditionary war nor un/willing allies to share the expenses for generating CNN-worthy footage of CM-launches, to do all that. The sum total of Kalibr launches seem less than 40 at this point. And we dont know their stockpiles. However they have a huge network of seasoned mercs and arms supply networks, who are less in-your-face than the kala-pani khan types.

It is our mistake if we believe everyone has to act according to CNN specs

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 06 Nov 2015 09:14

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's new communications director accused President Barack Obama of anti-Semitism and said Secretary of State John Kerry is as smart as a 12-year-old.

Besides what title implies, the only other data pt in this report is the disputed Syrian Golan Heights real estate, which is where the recent massive oil discoveries were made, is controlled by ISIS. Hope people can make conclusion as to who controls ISIS.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Nov 2015 10:17

I have broached the idea in syria thread of Rus acception houthi invitation to setup permanent bases in al-hudaydah on red sea (port) and Sanaa (the capital).
even if they maintain a skeletal presence, Rus can then ship in kornets and tochkas by the 100s with impunity.

if I were putin I would look to chess moves that change the game, not play the game by rules others are rigging.

I do not think the saudi/emirati FFGs now insolently blocading the coast want to be on the wrong side of a klub salvo.

this will hurt the KSA far more than merely some targeted strike on the sith lords.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 06 Nov 2015 10:22

Singha ji, That tactic flies in the face of main strategy of Putin to use legitimate UN recognized govt as sovereign representative to invite another govt for help. So, won't happen.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Nov 2015 15:08

here again we are holding putin to some artificial dharmic standard as we do the NDA.

if everyone is in the gutter, the fight has to be in the gutter.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 06 Nov 2015 22:38

Nothing dharmic or adharmic about it...he already showed everyone the finger in crimea. But his main strategy in Syria, the basis on which he could isolate west, is holding countries' sovereign boundaries and govt intact. Until he wins decisively he is unlikely to change that particularly when it is working.
He would rather let Iran go play what you suggest but he will not himself do that (nor is advisable).