The Levant crisis.(Israel,SYRIA,Lebanon,etc)

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 28 Nov 2015 10:36

So much FUD on internet, so much blood on everyone's hand. Everyone fights with angels on their side.

Sorry for the rant but reading all this stuff at night makes you loose all hope. God knows how people are surviving in this conflict zone.

I hope that black liquid is worth its red tint.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 28 Nov 2015 10:42

300 thousand dead is probably consensus figure for casualties in Syria so far.

This figure definitely dwarfs casualties in Iraq.

Syria is/was logical stop after Iraqi turmoil.

Responsibility for Iraqi turmoil solely rests with US.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Nov 2015 10:53

Putin snubs the Sultan.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/n ... zens[quote]
Vladimir Putin refuses to speak to Turkish president over Ankara's lack of apology

The row between Russia and Turkey since the latter downed a Moscow warplane this week continues with the Russian president refusing to speak to his Turkish counterpart

By Raziye Akkoc, and Roland Oliphant, Moscow
27 Nov 2015

Russia suspended visa free travel with Turkey and warned that it may restrict civilian passenger flights between the two countries on Friday, as the confrontation between the two countries deepened.

In the most drastic step so far, the Kremlin revealed that Vladimir Putin has twice refused to take calls from Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish president, until he apologises for a Turkish warplane shot down a Russian military jet on Tuesday.

Yuri Ushakov, an aide to Mr Putin, told reporters in Moscow that the president had twice refused to take phone calls from Mr Erdogan since the aircraft was shot down.

"We see Turkey's unwillingness to simply apologise for the incident with the plane," Yuri Ushakov said.
[/quote]

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Nov 2015 10:54

for its size of 79 mil population, turkey is a powerful economy of some $800billion and per capita gdp of $10,000 USD...similar to greece but country is much larger with much more people, so more composite national power.
in dollars it is nearly half of indian gdp with 14 times less people.

TSP has a GDP of around $250bil with a pop of 200 mil.

that economic heft plus NATO backing and hordes of advanced weapons sourced from khanate gives them the chutzpah and confidence to go seeking fights.

TSPs history also pales before the ottomans - one of the largest and longest lived empires close to 500 years...one of the gold standard in powerful islamic empires. TSP has nothing remotely resembling Istanbul to bask in glory.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 28 Nov 2015 10:58

Turdogan = Zulfu(ker

Billal = Murtaza

incidentally princeling of benazir is named Bilawal (orig form of Billal)

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 28 Nov 2015 12:04

ahem,Oil oil everywhere, put not a drop to drink. Also, who is passing the gas?

At the bottom of all ijlaam is oyel, oyel and oyel some more. Without, the missionaries would have l9ng converted the lot, into a parking lot for greater ijrael (i mean the holey land).

If saudi, qatari, uae etc cant pump (and their petro dolla investments are dumped) then peace will rise from dead again. fat chance though, singing is prohibited in ijlaam.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 28 Nov 2015 12:19

Singha wrote:for its size of 79 mil population, turkey is a powerful economy of some $800billion and per capita gdp of $10,000 USD...similar to greece but country is much larger with much more people, so more composite national power.
in dollars it is nearly half of indian gdp with 14 times less people.

TSP has a GDP of around $250bil with a pop of 200 mil.

that economic heft plus NATO backing and hordes of advanced weapons sourced from khanate gives them the chutzpah and confidence to go seeking fights.

TSPs history also pales before the ottomans - one of the largest and longest lived empires close to 500 years...one of the gold standard in powerful islamic empires. TSP has nothing remotely resembling Istanbul to bask in glory.

America is playing with fire (supporting Islamists in Turkey). It seems Russia may be getting involved in Afghanistan 2.0. This time EU will face the brunt. Russia's entry in ME has made Af-Pak less important for US. Would this reduce assistance to Pakistan?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Nov 2015 12:21

Coming so soon after M.Hollande's visit to the SWhite House,where O'Bomber is adamant about allowing Assad to survive,this statement of surprising independence by the French augurs well for the future,IF the French can resist the US pressure not to cooperate with Russia. However,post paris 13/11,the French appear to have had enough of pussyfooting about ISIS in the region and Assad clearly is the lesser of the two evils,if he is to be considered evil at all.In fact the Turks should be considered in the same league as ISIS as they are their covert economic and mil partners,aiming to oust Assad and seize Syria for their own vested interests.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/
France: we could work with Syrian regime troops in ground fight against Isil

Laurent Fabius, the foreign minister, said he could foresee Syrian troops loyal to Bashar al-Assad taking part in the fight to crush the Islamic State group, in a controversial statement welcomed by the regime in Damascus

http://melbrake.wordpress.com

Putin Orders Complete Destruction Of Turkish President, Family And Government
Friday, November 27, 2015 13:18

Speaking after talks in the Kremlin with French President Francois Hollande, Putin voiced lingering anger at Turkey’s actions, saying he viewed the downing of the jet as an act of betrayal by a country Moscow had thought was its friend.

“(There are) technical means of protection from the rocket assault, including thermal guard – specialists know how it is done. We did not do any of these, I will repeat, because we thought Turkey was a friendly state and simply did not expect any attacks on this side. This is why we consider this hit treacherous,” Putin said, commenting on the downing of a Russian fighter jet by Turkish forces earlier this week.

According to whatdoesitmean.com

The Ministry of Defense (MoD) is reporting today that President Putin has authorized an unprecedented “asymmetric warfare” action, to include “war by proxy”, to destroy the family and government of Turkish President Recep Erdogan in retaliation for the deliberate downing of an Aerospace Forces Sukhoi Su-24M bomber aircraft on 24 November over Syria in a bid to prevent a larger war with the nation of Turkey as a whole.

Turkish President Recep Erdogan and his son Bilal

According to this MoD report, and as we had previously reported on, the deliberate ambushing and shoot down of this Su-24M was “directed/organized” by rogue elements operating within the Turkish government and United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) who were “partners/collaborators” in an oil-for-weapons scheme involving Islamic State terrorists operating in Syria run by Turkey’s President Erdogan’s son Bilal Erdogan.

Bilal Erdogan, this report continues, is the silent mastermind who has been responsible for converting millions of barrels of Syrian oil controlled by Islamic State terrorists into hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue in a scheme so vast that President Putin described it as a “living oil pipeline” comprised of “vehicles, carrying oil, lined up in a chain going beyond the horizon”.

With the money earned from this sale of the Islamic States oil, this report notes, American weapons and ammunition were then bought from the CIA and transported back into Syria by Turkey’s National Intelligence Organization (MİT) to Islamic State terrorists—which was documented and verified by the editor-in-chief of the Turkish Cumhuriyet newspaper who upon the release of this information was ordered arrested yesterday by President Erdogan on treason and espionage charges.

With Aerospace Forces having destroyed over 1,000 fuel tankers in the week prior to 24 November carrying illegal Islamic State oil into Turkey, MoD analysts in this report state, Bilal Erdogan, along with his MIT and CIA “accomplices” then ordered the “shootdown by ambush” of Russia’s Su24-M bomber aircraft with Turkish Prime Minister, and Erdogan family ally, Ahmet Davutoglu admitting that he personally gave the order to fire on the aircraft—and which was filmed by Islamic State terrorists who knew where and when to “get that exclusive footage”, as reported by Federation Colonel-General Viktor Bondarev.

To the Western propaganda effort to “disguise/distort” this war crime against the Federation by Turkey, this report says, it has fallen into to many absurdities to count—including the impossibility of this Su24-M being able to fly over Turkish territory at a speed at which if true it had would have fallen from the sky, and which Wikileaks stated about: “Journalists: Learn to do basic maths. Look at Turkey’s statement to UN: 1.15 miles / 17 seconds x 60 x 60 = 243 miles/hour = 391 km/hour”.

Even worse about the Western propaganda, this report notes, is an obvious Erdogan-MIT-CIA fabricated recording of the alleged warning given to the Su24-M bomber aircraft—but which Turkish authorities have informed the Russian military attache that they did not provide the media with any audio recordings of alleged radio contacts between their F-16 fighter and the downed Russian Su-24M bomber aircraft because they don’t exist.

To President Putin’s war order against the Erdogan family and regime, this report continues, it has included the obliteration of the Islamic State forces in the area where this plane was downed and now allows Aerospace Forces to shoot down all enemy planes and objects which pose, or can pose, a threat to the serviceman of Russia in Syria.

And as stated by President Putin to the media this morning, these measures let everyone know clearly that the next time any foreign plane tries to carry out aggression against the Russian Air Force, air base, or the military personnel of Russia in Syria—they will be, without any doubts, immediately destroyed—and the Triumph S-400 air defense missile complex wasn’t just deployed to Syria for appearances.

http://melbrake.wordpress.com

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Nov 2015 14:37

erdogan is a bigger idiot than we thought.

Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 21h21 hours ago
Erdogan: We have documented evidence of the involvement of Russian companies in the sale of #ISIS oil - @AlArabiya_Brk @lummideast
View conversation 197 retweets 61 likes

Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 21h21 hours ago
BREAKING: Erdogan warns #Russia "To not play with fire" #Turkey/#Russia
250 retweets 87 likes

Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 21h21 hours ago
BREAKING: Erdogan says #Russia is supporting the "state terrorism" of the Assad regime that has "killed 380,000 people" - @intlspectator
380 retweets 119 likes

parikh · Post by **parikh** » 28 Nov 2015 15:33

Was watching Body of Lies again , which was released in 2008 , the Bad Guys were are an Al Q subsidary based out of Daraa in Syria and were doing fireworks in Europe. Ridley Bhaiyaa or his script writer , ex 3 letter organization guys , were onto / knew something in advance.

member_23858 · Post by **member_23858** » 28 Nov 2015 17:16

chetak wrote:erdogan is a bigger idiot than we thought.

Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 21h21 hours ago
Erdogan: We have documented evidence of the involvement of Russian companies in the sale of #ISIS oil - @AlArabiya_Brk @lummideast
View conversation 197 retweets 61 likes

Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 21h21 hours ago
BREAKING: Erdogan warns #Russia "To not play with fire" #Turkey/#Russia
250 retweets 87 likes

Conflict News ‏@Conflicts 21h21 hours ago
BREAKING: Erdogan says #Russia is supporting the "state terrorism" of the Assad regime that has "killed 380,000 people" - @intlspectator
380 retweets 119 likes

Actually, Erdogan is just showing his pakistaniyat. All these rants are sooo similar to the ones we hear from across the border.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 28 Nov 2015 17:16

Singha wrote:for its size of 79 mil population, turkey is a powerful economy of some $800billion and per capita gdp of $10,000 USD....

Singha ji,
You are mistaken. Economically Turkey is worse than Brazil. Go figure. Its an American munna like TSP. Eventually it will have to go the proverbial 'cold turkey' when dollars dry out.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Nov 2015 20:05

fierce fighting. gas cylinder mortars is use.
https://youtu.be/0vf5aEYNVLI

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 28 Nov 2015 20:34

Turkey is well versed in the gray/black market oil/gas trade. As this article notes it operated an illegal gold for Iranian gas scheme worth billions through Halkbank which is a Government owned bank in Turkey. Halkbank's CEO was removed after a raid at his house found $4.5 million stuffed into shoe boxes. Incidentally, Halkbank for some time also settled India's oil trade with Iran until that was stopped.

So an oil for weapons scheme could well be run by Bilal with tentacles running into 3 letter alphabet soup organizations to source the weapons then dispatched into Syria for the "moderate" rebels. Iran contra anyone? That would explain the protection he has and why he has been left alone. The involvement of the 3 letter organizations could also explain the precision tracking of the Russian SU24 down to seconds, doubt whether the Turks could have pulled that off on their own.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Nov 2015 20:36

IS small but tough presence in iraq now

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Nov 2015 20:40

That's one big barrel... dwarfs all those little mortar tubes.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 28 Nov 2015 20:43

I think powerful Turkish Army has not seen real action in last 90 years and is dying to be obliterated. Therefore they have taken on Russia. My guess is that Turks will now understand what Pakistan Army is facing in Pakistan and near Pakistan. That is what is to be a Paki. Turks will move from being a bored Royal Lady to getting street experience of a Prostitute.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Nov 2015 20:47

^^ those portable LPG cooking cylinders must be packed with around 5kg of HE. packs a big punch more than a proper 120mm mortar albeit not so much range and accuracy. here is what a proper 120mm can do...way more rate of fire. the mil grade is also very safe, here you never know where its going to fire - front, back or exploding tube so everyone hides behin a wall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdZc5RfKqyA

the idea for the huge makeshift mortars could have come from the russian 240MM SP mortar. it fired a huge shell almost like a naval weapon. syrian army allegedly had some, and I would say its a ideal weapon if they can obtain more....agile, heavy shell, simple, cheap...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le4bJspzVAY

almost entire Idlib and Aleppo province is still in rebel hands. so Govt has a lot of work to do to recapture the main cities and supply routes there. aleppo city will remain heavily contested for a while.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Nov 2015 20:49

Gyan wrote:I think powerful Turkish Army has not seen real action in last 90 years and is dying to be obliterated. Therefore they have taken on Russia. My guess is that Turks will now understand what Pakistan Army is facing in Pakistan and near Pakistan. That is what is to be a Paki. Turks will move from being a bored Royal Lady to getting street experience of a Prostitute.

if you are using metaphors like that, then the correct phrase is "they will move from the seldom trodden path of the maid to the well worn avenue of the duchess"

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Nov 2015 20:51

advantage of mortars is cost and simplicity. a cannon will need a proper breech able to handle the chamber pressure and separate charges for the shell. well beyond the ability of town workshops.....i believe making such crude mortar shells is a cottage industry there like our village craftsmen make jute bags, wooden toys, sandals and such

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Nov 2015 20:56

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Nov 2015 20:57

one more to the alphabet soup

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Nov 2015 21:01

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 28 Nov 2015 21:01

Singha wrote:for its size of 79 mil population, turkey is a powerful economy of some $800billion and per capita gdp of $10,000 USD...similar to greece but country is much larger with much more people, so more composite national power.
in dollars it is nearly half of indian gdp with 14 times less people.

TSP has a GDP of around $250bil with a pop of 200 mil.

that economic heft plus NATO backing and hordes of advanced weapons sourced from khanate gives them the chutzpah and confidence to go seeking fights.

TSPs history also pales before the ottomans - one of the largest and longest lived empires close to 500 years...one of the gold standard in powerful islamic empires. TSP has nothing remotely resembling Istanbul to bask in glory.

Turkey is main exporter exotic food to Europe. Mid Eastern population in Europe depends on Turkey because things are cheaper. Everything .....Window frames,fridges,fresh vegetables,dry fruits.....you name it.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 28 Nov 2015 21:04

ldev wrote:Turkey is well versed in the gray/black market oil/gas trade. As this article notes it operated an illegal gold for Iranian gas scheme worth billions through Halkbank which is a Government owned bank in Turkey. Halkbank's CEO was removed after a raid at his house found $4.5 million stuffed into shoe boxes. Incidentally, Halkbank for some time also settled India's oil trade with Iran until that was stopped.

So an oil for weapons scheme could well be run by Bilal with tentacles running into 3 letter alphabet soup organizations to source the weapons then dispatched into Syria for the "moderate" rebels. Iran contra anyone? That would explain the protection he has and why he has been left alone. The involvement of the 3 letter organizations could also explain the precision tracking of the Russian SU24 down to seconds, doubt whether the Turks could have pulled that off on their own.

there's no three letter organization to it, It's four letters :NATO.

all US facilities in Turkey are *joint*. Anything that comes across the board in the NATO facility in Turkey means the Turks automatically know about it. After all, it's defense of their homeland.

The problem being is that Vlad the Bare Chested Cossack Pilots didn't follow established protocol that was agreed to previously with Americanskis. They were supposed to be listening to their clear channel radio when operating near the border so that they can respond when being challenged. This is not healthy for Cossack Pilots when bombing Turkey's "near abroad".

Don't like that?

Well it's same in India's book of operations also.

You cross into into India's ADZ or border and if you are not listening, india will shoot your a$$ off. Guaranteed. As Pakistan found out and, about 18 Pakistanis died for it. India forced a US plane to land for crossing its ADZ unannounced, and not even its border. Thankfully, the US three letter pilot was listening to his clear channel.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Nov 2015 21:05

they are no pushover for sure. like south korea, they are investing deep into armour and artillery. they have a long tradition of high caliber metallurgy - middle age cannons, guns, damascene steel with those beautiful patterns etc.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Nov 2015 21:11

the american backed NSA - new syrian army! destroys a ISIS shell factory on the border somewhere

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zVK2HG ... e=youtu.be

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 28 Nov 2015 21:23

As expected there is thinking around putting pressure on EU countries to (not) engage in business deals with terrorist supporting nation of Turkey:

Deal Between Merkel, Erdogan Will Be the End of Europe – German Media - Nov 28, 2015
http://sputniknews.com/politics/2015112 ... -deal.html

A difficult question is arising for German Chancellor Angela Merkel before her meeting with Turkish leader Recer Tayyip Erdogan – should Europe deal with a country which buys oil from terrorists? Politicians with principles should have cancelled the meeting, German media reported.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 28 Nov 2015 21:28

If Putin tries to do a George Bush family/Euerak redux in seeriya then he will suffer the same fate. Seeriya is small enough to be cleansed and putin will get a lot of nobel prize votes if instead he chooses to pacify the place, unfamiliar airstrikes notwithstanding.

There are 6 weeks to create a solid beach head all long the coast, raise air power from 50ish to 100ish and raise sorties to closer to 1000 a day, bring in enough MLRS to deter turkey. The turkish borde wont be closed in time, but as long as russia is on the ground the others will take a longer route/time to spend the 500M just sanctioned.

Again number of boots wise SAA has the advantage. Turn off the TOW flow and the tide will turn. Only WW2 tactics will work in seeriya, flatten and rebuild.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 28 Nov 2015 22:22

http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-urges-nati ... 42554.html

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Saturday voiced regret over Turkey's downing of a Russian warplane, saying his country was "truly saddened" by the incident and wished it hadn't occurred.

On Saturday Turkey issued a travel warning urging its nationals to delay non-urgent and unnecessary travel to Russia, saying Turkish travelers were facing "problems" in the country. It said Turks should delay travel plans until "the situation becomes clear."

Turkey has no real issue with Russia, their main problema is with Seeriya. It is replay of Iran-Iraq rivalry/war. When things are good, and plenty of kuffars are available around, it will open season on them by shia-sunni combo. Now that there are very little kuffars around, shia-sunni are at each other. Russia is a minor inconvenience for Turkey. Turkeys are one step ahead of pakis. Pakis have problems with its neighbours, while Turkey is not only having problem with its islamic neighbour Sirya, it got tangled with Russia as a road kill.
More things change, more they remain same. Who owns Islamic caliphite? Russia et.al are mere sideshows to the boots on the ground islamics, who will set how the cookie crumbles. Can Syrian muslims outdo Turkish muslims? That's the principal question.

Boots on the ground matter immensely. Infantry holds and controls the land, air campgain will merely be display of shiny toys and short term entertainment.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Nov 2015 22:30

Shreeman wrote:If Putin tries to do a George Bush family/Euerak redux in seeriya then he will suffer the same fate. Seeriya is small enough to be cleansed and putin will get a lot of nobel prize votes if instead he chooses to pacify the place, unfamiliar airstrikes notwithstanding.

There are 6 weeks to create a solid beach head all long the coast, raise air power from 50ish to 100ish and raise sorties to closer to 1000 a day, bring in enough MLRS to deter turkey. The turkish borde wont be closed in time, but as long as russia is on the ground the others will take a longer route/time to spend the 500M just sanctioned.

Again number of boots wise SAA has the advantage. Turn off the TOW flow and the tide will turn. Only WW2 tactics will work in seeriya, flatten and rebuild.

Russia is limited both in time and money. The falling oil prices seems to have been engineered primarily to screw them and many others along and by the way.

1000 sorties a day would cost a bomb. (sorry, bad pun!!) I don't think putin has that kind of moolah

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 28 Nov 2015 22:31

TSJones wrote:
there's no three letter organization to it, It's four letters :NATO.

all US facilities in Turkey are *joint*. Anything that comes across the board in the NATO facility in Turkey means the Turks automatically know about it. After all, it's defense of their homeland.

The problem being is that Vlad the Bare Chested Cossack Pilots didn't follow established protocol that was agreed to previously with Americanskis. They were supposed to be listening to their clear channel radio when operating near the border so that they can respond when being challenged. This is not healthy for Cossack Pilots when bombing Turkey's "near abroad".

Don't like that?

Well it's same in India's book of operations also.

You cross into into India's ADZ or border and if you are not listening, india will shoot your a$$ off. Guaranteed. As Pakistan found out and, about 18 Pakistanis died for it. India forced a US plane to land for crossing its ADZ unannounced, and not even its border. Thankfully, the US three letter pilot was listening to his clear channel.

TSJ,

Your response had nothing to do with my post!! But let that slide.

This is a great timeline of aerial events between Russia and Turkey on the Syrian-Turkish border from the time the Russian air campaign began in Syria October 1.

Note that Russia began escorting its ground attack aircraft with fighters on October 12 and announced an end to that practice on October 16. There was a military hotline set up between Russia and Turkey. If the Turkish intent was not hostile, they could have just picked up the phone and called Russia to ID if the aircraft belonged to Russia. Obviously the Russians stopped fighter escorts after 4 days because assurances were given probably by the US after the MOU was signed. If the Russians have to be careful even after the MOU has been signed, then it is not worth the paper it is written on. Maybe that is why Putin is furious, a signed MOU with the US does not protect his planes, so they have started putting in reinforcements i.e. S400s, EW equipment etc.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 28 Nov 2015 22:32

^^^ Be more vigilant young man. Of course toorki has a problem with roosiya. It is the oil and gas. They want pure sunnee oil and gas that roos isnt letting them have. They want pipes from mecca to anatoliya delivering pure zam zam. They want to be opec's tap to oeurope. All that rent and "transmission leakage" and replace the winter turn-off threat that is roosi weapon roght now.

You really think this is about seeriya? No, its about getting the ex-ussr stans and gelf cuntries a land route to oeurope. By passing egypt. by passing roos. All of a sudden erdogam is king salman and EU is begging him to be EU prejident. Merkel wants to marry him. Cameron ij offering northern ireland on a platter. Cyprus is the new dubaii. Do you see the possibilities?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Nov 2015 22:34

Shreeman wrote:^^^ Be more vigilant young man. Of course toorki has a problem with roosiya. It is the oil and gas. They want pure sunnee oil and gas that roos isnt letting them have. They want pipes from mecca to anatoliya delivering pure zam zam. They want to be opec's tap to oeurope. All that rent and "transmission leakage" and replace the winter turn-off threat that is roosi weapon roght now.

You really think this is about seeriya? No, its about getting the ex-ussr stans and gelf cuntries a land route to oeurope. By passing egypt. by passing roos. All of a sudden erdogam is king salman and EU is begging him to be EU prejident. Merkel wants to marry him. Cameron ij offering northern ireland on a platter. Cyprus is the new dubaii. Do you see the possibilities?

exactly like the pakis are desperately hoping to trap us with pipelines supplying us but running through paki territory with the taps being controlled from islamabad.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 28 Nov 2015 22:39

Turkey and Russia will kiss and make up faster than greece got its bail out worked out. Watch for Turkey-Russia bhai bhai soon, already Erdogan is getting his lips ready to kiss and makeup at the paris conference with Putin.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 28 Nov 2015 22:40

chetak wrote:
Shreeman wrote:If Putin tries to do a George Bush family/Euerak redux in seeriya then he will suffer the same fate. Seeriya is small enough to be cleansed and putin will get a lot of nobel prize votes if instead he chooses to pacify the place, unfamiliar airstrikes notwithstanding.

There are 6 weeks to create a solid beach head all long the coast, raise air power from 50ish to 100ish and raise sorties to closer to 1000 a day, bring in enough MLRS to deter turkey. The turkish borde wont be closed in time, but as long as russia is on the ground the others will take a longer route/time to spend the 500M just sanctioned.

Again number of boots wise SAA has the advantage. Turn off the TOW flow and the tide will turn. Only WW2 tactics will work in seeriya, flatten and rebuild.
Russia is limited both in time and money. The falling oil prices seems to have been engineered primarily to screw them and many others along and by the way.

1000 sorties a day would cost a bomb. (sorry, bad pun!!) I don't think putin has that kind of moolah

Chetak,

the math would work that way for SDRE. Not for the TFTA. They already have the planes. They have their own oil, no two week reserve. And when everything was nationalized they filled up a lot of caves with bums, and not just in ukraine.

Roos would be reducing the risk of old munitions goung kaboom, and getting combat practice instead of training sorties. It woulnt cost them a dime (asaad will pay as well at the end), and they will get back space on both sides of turki. No longer hostage just to montreux and better able to prop up greece.

Erdogan is a fool. But I doubt this was his idea. It was the alphabet soup that did this. No skin off their noses. Roos loses another market. A well developed one. Turks come back home by 100,000s unemployed. For a year or two economy goes in the toilet.

Roos cant avoid but shutting of the turkish coffee going down the seeriyan toilet. At least for a while. And if they try not to play George Bush style freedom campaign they may actually get a good toehold for all the pain they will suffer economically. There is no point in storing bums in caves if you dont use them now. Its not parakram.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 28 Nov 2015 22:45

JwalaMukhi wrote:Turkey and Russia will kiss and make up faster than greece got its bail out worked out. Watch for Turkey-Russia bhai bhai soon, already Ergodan is getting his lips ready to kiss and makeup at the paris conference with Putin.

Turki Roos is not SDRE TFtA wagha border. The facts on the ground (large ships sailing to the med etc) dont change. Putin probably wont even meet erdogan and even if bilals father does get an audience the war situation isnt changing. Today its turki, tomorrow france will take potshots. Then what?

Roos has put down the hardware and the boots, they will need to create a material difference -- a safe zone 100s miles wide so it doesnt become irak or afg. does that change erdo's destiny, who knows?

Turki may produce the pilot shooters on a platter. It wont change a thing on the whole red line crossing bijness.

Bhurishrava · Post by **Bhurishrava** » 28 Nov 2015 22:47

TSJones wrote: You cross into into India's ADZ or border and if you are not listening, india will shoot your a$$ off. Guaranteed. As Pakistan found out and, about 18 Pakistanis died for it. India forced a US plane to land for crossing its ADZ unannounced, and not even its border. Thankfully, the US three letter pilot was listening to his clear channel.

India shooting down the Pakistani plane was retaliation for Pukistanis torturing six Indian soldiers to death. American plane was forced to land and not shot down.
Turkey shooting down Russian plane is retaliation for Russia bombing NATO`s `moderate` rebels. Had this not been the case, the plane would have been forced to land and not shot.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Nov 2015 22:50

So far Dlagon have been quietly sitting on side. If Russian face setback in Syria then Dlagon will Ditch Putin and sail home and if Mother Russia wins the war, Dlagon will come rushing to share the milk from same udder. In same vein, Israeli collected lot of handling fee in sale of oil in black market yet no blemish on their name.
And prettttty good chances of Vatican Bank involved in this oil money laundering for ISIS. (Please tweet Vatican Bank is the Bank of ISIS)

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 28 Nov 2015 22:52

Shreeman wrote: and they will get back space on both sides of turki. No longer hostage just to montreux...

Care to elaborate on how this crisis could lead to that. You surely cant expect Kurdistan on the Bosphorous?