India-Russia: News & Analysis

[NRao]

I am on a cell phone, so hard to respond in more details.

You speak of nations acting in self interest, but tell me, how did spending tens of billions on US arms benefit us?

I don't. This was discussed about 15 years ago on BR. However, not sure whom you mean by "us", but US providing funds to Pakistan is meant to benefit the US. So too India providing funds to A'stan is meant to benefit India.

Forget today, even in olden times people did stuff to benefit their own communities. Check out Shivaji. He switched sides umpteen times. Good? At least he thought so at that time.

How do you see Russian relations with Pakistan? India has brought it up with Russia.

But that is how nations behave. Cannot get emotional about it.

Watch how Japan and Australia behave moving forward.

Finally see how India dances.

There never can be A given way. It is a dance.

[Y. Kanan]

Spending billions (not 'tens of billion'), on US arms provided us with working reliable weapons worth billions. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Weapons ought to be bought on their merits (a matrix that factors in cost, performance, reliability & after-sales support). If that means a US one, so be it. If its Russian or European, that's fine too.

Let's see how worthwhile those multi-billion dollar purchases turn out to be when the US sanctions us and cuts off spares and support for all that fancy gear. I hope we never again have to conduct another nuclear test... or face hostilities with Bangladesh, Pakistan, the Gulf Arabs, Maldives, "good" US-backed terrorists, or any other likely foe, because US sanctions will quickly follow. The only combat scenario that wouldn't involve US sanctions would be India-vs-China (maybe, although the US vacillates even wrt to China and has historically favoured them over us).

So explain to us again, why it was a good idea to buy all this US gear when we could have acquired equivalent systems from Russia or France?

[JwalaMukhi]

This purchase clearly speaks of failure of all the decades of being in bed with Russia. India still needs to look elsewhere for its defense needs. I bet if India had been in bed as cosily as with Japan, it would have had far greater and better outcome than tied to a communist block. If the planners were to be allowed to continue on the same path India would still be looking to other foreign suppliers in 2100.

Continuing with the same path is recipe for putting another generation of Indians to scrape the bottom to make the oligarchies in Russia rich without developing domestic sector.

The single biggest reason is to avoid depending on Russian supply for decades more to come. This is ice breaker to get out of the log-jam of fascination with foreign maal. The transition to completely domestic sophistication cannot be abrupt, given the systemic setup of Nehruvian socialist system that has ruled the roost so far.

[sooraj]

All these Award Wapasi and intolerance gangs will force India to strengthen relationship with Russia

[Philip]

Indo-Russian-US activities in '71 have not been fully revealed. In time the full story may "out".Suffice it to say for now that the US backed away from a confrontation with Russia which allowed us sufficient time to do the business,severed Pak into two,and created Bangladesh in the process.

Had it not been for billions of $$ of aid and mil-eqpt. from the US post '71,Pak would be no threat to India.The US (Clinton) turned a blind eye to Pak's acquisition of N-weapons,China's N-proliferation which is still continuing,and has made nuclear-armed Pak ,producing N-weapons at breakneck speed,with full technical support rom China,the most dangerous rogue state on the planet.

The US looks at India purely from a mercenary viewpoint,how much it can inveigle us into joining a US-led mil alliance against China and selling its wares to a market of 1B+.If it truly considers India as a strat. partner,why does it repeatedly keep us out of all talks on Afghanistan and exercises with us militarily only with its Pacific command? The yanqui truly speaks with a forked tongue!

Mr.Modi's visit to Moscow in Dec. is a very crucial one. We are at a disadvantage in many respects vis-à-vis the Sino-Pak mil alliance. Our relations with the US and pother nations is not that of a mil alliance unlike the Paki-Sino relationship. India has to fight its own battles in the future and whatever cutting edge tech that gives us a mil advantage over the two available from Russia has to be acquired on its merits. The Chinese have shamelessly cloned whatever Russian eqpt. they've recd. and been able to replicate like brigands. Why Russia is wary of providing them with "samples" of their best. Politically too there are several global issues like Afghanistan,Syria,ISIS,China's island grabbing in the ICS,the UNSC seat for India,etc. where Indo-Russian diplomatic alignment is essential.

[Y. Kanan]

This purchase clearly speaks of failure of all the decades of being in bed with Russia. India still needs to look elsewhere for its defense needs. I bet if India had been in bed as cosily as with Japan, it would have had far greater and better outcome than tied to a communist block. If the planners were to be allowed to continue on the same path India would still be looking to other foreign suppliers in 2100.

Continuing with the same path is recipe for putting another generation of Indians to scrape the bottom to make the oligarchies in Russia rich without developing domestic sector.

The single biggest reason is to avoid depending on Russian supply for decades more to come. This is ice breaker to get out of the log-jam of fascination with foreign maal. The transition to completely domestic sophistication cannot be abrupt, given the systemic setup of Nehruvian socialist system that has ruled the roost so far.

Agree wholeheartedly. Of course we must strive to meet our defence needs indigenously, but how does buying US military gear advance that goal? In those cases where we are forced to buy foreign, at least buy from a country that isn't gifting $50 billion to our mortal enemy and that hasn't ever placed sanctions on us. And in those cases where Russia can't meet our needs, go with France, South Africa or some other country that doesn't have a track record of hurting us. Placing these gigantic arms purchases with the US, worth tens of billions, is a huge and unnecessary slap in the face to Russia, arguably our only friend left in the world. And we all know the US will just end up sanctioning us down the road anyway.

[Viv S]

Let's see how worthwhile those multi-billion dollar purchases turn out to be when the US sanctions us and cuts off spares and support for all that fancy gear. I hope we never again have to conduct another nuclear test... or face hostilities with Bangladesh, Pakistan, the Gulf Arabs, Maldives, "good" US-backed terrorists, or any other likely foe, because US sanctions will quickly follow. The only combat scenario that wouldn't involve US sanctions would be India-vs-China (maybe, although the US vacillates even wrt to China and has historically favoured them over us).

This isn't 1998. The world has changed, India even more so. There's a different set of economic & political equations in operation today. And you can't plan for the future if you're living in the past. Cold hard pragmatism over sentimentality.

So explain to us again, why it was a good idea to buy all this US gear when we could have acquired equivalent systems from Russia or France?

What equivalent systems? The P-8 has no peers. The C-130J had no peers at the time (and is still the most cost effective medium lifter in the market). The C-17 is more cost effective per unit cargo than the Il-76 (ref: Transport thread), which was in the doldrums at the time. The IAF chose the CH-47 over the Mi-26T, principally due to better reliability and lower lifecycle cost. And the AH-64E thoroughly outperformed Mi-28N in the IAF's trials. The Harpoon was the only item chosen over a comparable European product (Exocet/RBS-15).

[Austin]

SCA is considering the possibility of delivery to 50 SSJ100 aircraft in India

DUBAI, November 8 - RIA Novosti. "Sukhoi Civil Aircraft" (GSS) are in talks with Indian airlines to supply 50 Sukhoi Superjet 100 aircraft a number of airlines, told the president Ilya Tarasenko.

"We are now actively involved together with Tata on the definition of the offset program, we can offer in India. We are there, too, on the part of co-operatives working on issues of deliveries of aircraft there (in India - Ed.)", - He told reporters.

"It is planned to put about 50 airplanes, I think, somewhere in 2018. This is different airline - there is a large pool of carriers," - said Tarasenko, without specifying the names of the companies.

Tata Group - the Indian transnational company, with headquarters in Mumbai, working in communications and information technology, engineering, production of materials, services, energy, and it is composed of 114 companies. The Group has offices in more than 80 countries.

[/quote]

[Philip]

Hitesh,I've never said that all our milware must come from Russia.I've always advocated "horses for courses",and a pragmatic cost-effective approach to acquisitions.We cannot have an inventory full of the most expensive weapon systems,even the US cannot afford some of the systems developed and has cut down on numbers. Since we have to deal primarily with a two-front threat with a nuclear dimension,where both in conventional and nuclear arms we are outnumbered,numbers do matter.That's why we need both numbers and capability. Russian wares,as one Russian put it regarding civil eqpt.,sometimes may not be the best,but they are the best of the affordable eqpt. If we look at budgets/funds earmarked for say the MMRCA,the numbers of sqds that the IAF need,it is simply ridiculous to buy a $200M Rafale when we can get 4-5 MIG-29/35s for that price.

There are other weapon systems non-Russian sources which are best suited for the forces like Israeli UAVs, AWACS,P-8s from the US ,naval multi-role medium/heavy helos,etc. However,when it comes to the real teeth of the armed forces,it has been Russia that has always provided us with the best eqpt. at affordable costs like the SU-30s,BMos missile,Akula-2 subs/N-sub tech for the ATV,armoured vehicles,and now as hinted perhaps the ABM S-400 system.Post Cold War events and the demise of the USSR saw support for Soviet era weaponry very difficult,but that is now past.The modernisation of the entire Russian arms industry has been the priority for Putin,it has never lacked funds,and the results are showing today.The Russian gambit in Syria ahs shown that its weapon systems are as good as any of the West and in some respects even superior .

It is upto India to keep an open mind and not get bogged down in dogmatic "make in India" only,mantras,as is being found difficult,given that it will take a few decades before our domestic pvt. industry matures in def. R&D. There are many routes like JVs (BMos) which have been v. successful and G-to-G sales. The FGFA is a key requirement where both off-the-shelf acquisitions and a long-term tech transfer can be leveraged for future Indian designed stealth aircraft like the AMCA,whatever.In fact we need not "reinvent the wheel" with the AMCA (at least 15 yrs to develop) and use FGFA stealth tech on LCA avatars and develop a future 2-seat version of the FGFA with greater desi inputs which can be built in India. The LCA stealth prog. could replace the AMCA ,more affordable and achievable, while the FGFA prog takes care of the heavy reqmnt. The IAF has 7-8 frontline aircraft types in the inventory, whereas most major air forces have 3-4,some just two like the Brits and French. Leveraging the LCA prog. we could replace all light/med aircraft with LCA avatars,even develop if need be a two-engined single-seat avatar.

More importantly is the long-term relationship where both sides could discuss their future acquisition plans and ultra-tech requirements and see where collaboration is possible,both in the civil and mil areas. Aviation and space is the sunshine industry in India,where civil aircraft orders each year are in the hundreds .The Sukhoi SSJ is just one type where local production could be set up apart from the helo deals.

[Austin]

India to bear expense of Russian acid attack victim
17 November 2015 Boris Egorov, RIR

Darya Yurieva, 23-year-old Russian tourist, who was attacked with acid in Varanasi, left for Moscow on Monday morning, Hindustan Times reports.

Darya Yurieva, 23-year-old Russian tourist, who was attacked with acid in Varanasi, left for Moscow on Monday morning, Hindustan Times reports.

She was being treated at Safdarjung Hospital, where she was brought from Varanasi in an air ambulance on Saturday night.

A group of doctors from the Russian embassy assessed her condition.

According to Safdarjung spokesperson Poonam Dhanda, Darya suffered 45% burns, with both her eyes being affected apart from the front part of the chest, abdomen, right arm, complete left leg and right thigh.

Sushma Swaraj, Minister for external affairs, tweeted on Monday, that India would bear all expenses on treatment of the woman in Russia.

Darya Yurieva was attacked by the son of the owner of the paying guest facility in which she was staying for allegedly rejecting a marriage proposal by the accused.

[Austin]

Russia and India move to settle in own currencies
19 November 2015 Artem Sanzhiev, specially for RIR

With a working group having identified problems faced in transacting business in national currencies, it is likely the issues will be resolved to ensure that Rupee-Ruble trade is the preferred method of transacting bilateral India-Russia commerce.

Hedging risks can help Russian and Indian business communities dislodge the American dollar from mutual settlements. The transition to settlements using national currencies was among the key issues in the joint statement released by Prime Minister of India Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin after their summit in New Delhi on December 11, 2014.

“Our countries shall encourage the use of national currencies when making mutual settlements in bilateral trade,” the leaders said.

The statement was preceded by a meeting, organized by the Russian and Indian central banks, of a working group on bilateral trade payments in national currencies. Work began immediately to prepare recommendations to promote such payment operations in bilateral commerce.

“The main objective of the work was to identify possible barriers to making settlements using national currencies, and to determine the readiness of banking systems to implement and develop models for use of rubles and rupees in mutual trade transactions,” said Yaroslav Tarasyuk, Russian trade representative in India, in a conversation with Rossiyskaya Gazeta.

“Avoiding the use of third-country currencies in mutual settlements will help to reduce the final cost of Russian products and improve their competitiveness in the Indian market. This is a tool that will support Russian exports and facilitate mutual trade,” he said.

The analysis by the working group showed that no serious regulatory obstacles existed to carrying out settlements in rubles and rupees on sales contracts. The experts proposed two standard models of calculations, which generally correspond to existing commercial practices followed by the banks of the two countries. If deemed necessary, these could be modified.

Nevertheless, the problem lies in the fact that the banking systems are not yet able to actively respond to the demands of the business communities.

“Banks of the two countries are not yet ready to actively carry out settlements in national currencies. To do this, first they would need to open branches of national banks in the respective countries. However, only two Russian bank branches operate in India, while in Russia there is just one Indian bank operating,” a source close to the Indian banking industry told Rossiyskaya Gazeta.

In addition, because India-Russia trade is relatively small in volume (last year it was just over $9 billion), the transition to settlements in national currencies could result in the supply of rubles and rupees remaining unclaimed. In the case of China, for example, such a problem does not exist. The volume of trade is several times greater with China, so the demand for the yuan exists in Russia.

The possibility of a wider practical application of the proposed models, as well as measures to reduce transaction costs when making settlements using national currencies is being discussed by the business communities of the two countries. Indian companies are now ready to move to this profitable scheme, but fear financial losses due to the fluctuations in the ruble exchange rate.

“Dropping the use of the dollar in mutual settlements is undoubtedly beneficial for both countries, since this would reduce banking expenses. However, the volatility of the ruble is now the biggest obstacle to the full transition to a mutual settlements system using national currencies,” Rossiyskaya Gazeta learned from Ajay Sahai, Director General of the Federation of Indian Export Organizations (FIEO).

However, according to Russian banks’ representatives, the risks of currency fluctuations are not so great, and all necessary conditions needed to carry out mutual settlements in national currencies have already been created.

“Fluctuations in the exchange rate of the ruble are not the real reason. The greater reason is that the rupee is also unstable. All the conditions for making settlements using national currencies have already been created, and many companies are actively using them. Our bank is also involved in this process. Changes in exchange rates may only have an adverse effect when it comes to long-term contracts, where payments are made ​​in tranches at intervals of six months or a year. In all other cases there are no problems,” says Vladislav Voytsekhovitch, manager of the bank branch in India of Sberbank Russia.

According to him, even when it comes to long-term contracts, all major exporters resort to the practice of hedging, by which, in addition to real goods and services, they purchase futures contracts that reduce the risks of currency fluctuations. These, however, also reduce profits.

“All those involved in serious business, have long used hedging instruments. Of course, mainly the big players, because such insurance also costs money, and small and medium businesses find it unprofitable to use such risk insurance,” said the banker.

[Viv S]

Russia, China sign contract worth over $2 billion for Su-35 fighter jets

By Gleb Stolyarov

MOSCOW (Reuters) - China will buy 24 Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets from Russia in a deal worth more than $2 billion, an industry source told Reuters on Thursday, in a move that may help the Kremlin's strained finances.

A spokeswoman for Russian state conglomerate Rostec confirmed a deal between the two countries had been signed involving Su-35 fighter jets, but declined to provide details.

The deal makes China the first foreign buyer of the Su-35, one of Russia's most advanced military aircraft, and is one of the largest contracts for military jets ever signed between the two countries.

Chinese state media quoted Russian media on the deal. The Chinese government has not commented, in keeping with standard practice on arms deals.

Russia and China have been in talks for several years over the Su-35s, and in 2012 the two sides signed a preliminary agreement for Beijing to buy some of the jets, the Kommersant newspaper reported.

Arms sales are a rare bright spot in an otherwise gloomy economic picture for Russia, whose economy is suffering from weak oil prices and Western sanctions over the Ukraine conflict.

Moscow has sought to deepen trade and financial ties with Beijing following the chill in relations with the West over Ukraine, but some analysts question whether the drive has yielded much in the way of early results.

It is not clear when China will pay for the Su-35s.

A delegation representing China's military and aerospace industry also held talks with Russian state-owned aircraft engine manufacturer United Engine Corp this week on the possible joint development and production of military engines.

This included the AL-41F-1S engine that powers the Su-35, United Engine Corp said in a statement.

While China has developed modern fighter jets like the J-10, J-11 and J-31 in recent years, its engine technology lags behind Russian firms, as well as U.S. and European companies such as United Technologies unit Pratt & Whitney, General Electric and Rolls-Royce.

Military analysts believe that without advanced engines, China's fighters could be at a disadvantage in combat against aircraft such the U.S.-built Lockheed Martin F-35 and Boeing F-15, Europe's Eurofighter Typhoon and France's Dassault Rafale.

Beijing is spending heavily on domestic engine research and development, experts say.

(Reporting by Gleb Stolyarov; Additional reporting by Siva Govindasamy in SINGAPORE and Ho Binh Minh in HANOI; Writing by Alexander Winning; Editing by Andrew Osborn and Dean Yates)

[Viv S]

Finally a done deal. Reported by multiple sources.

China Become the First Foreign Country Receive Su-35 Fighter Jet

China buys 24 advanced Russian Su-35 warplanes in estimated $2bn landmark deal

Confirmed: Russia Just Sold 24 Lethal Su-35 Fighters to China

“Long negotiations for the supply of Su-35 in China are completed, we signed a contract,” Sergei Chemezov general director of Rostec—which is a Russian government entity that helps facilitate Moscow’s defense exports—told the Russian daily Kommersant.

[Philip]

Yes,posted earlier in the Raffy td. At $83M a pop,it makes the Raffy look horrendously expensive,as even at a min $5B for 36 Raffys,its almost double the price.If the deal approaches $7B,it's even more outrageous!

The Q is how would the upgraded MKIs to Super-Sukhoi std.,with AESA radars,BMos,etc. face off with an SU-35? What would be the key differences? We would have all 270+ upgraded which would make for good numbers.It also makes the need for an FGFA more necessary.

[Philip]

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/322849-sukho ... hina-deal/

China buying Russian SU-35s ‘response’ to US moves in Asia
Published time: 20 Nov, 2015

Russia is selling China high performance aircraft as an answer to America’s actions around Asia, Conn Hallinan from Foreign Policy in Focus, told RT.

Beijing has signed a deal with Moscow for Sukhoi fighter jets. China will buy 24 cutting-edge SU-35s. China is the first foreign sale of the multipurpose aircraft.

The Su-35 fighter. © Artem Zhitenev / SputnikChina buys 24 advanced Russian Su-35 warplanes in estimated $2bn landmark deal
RT: Officials from Beijing were first shown the fighter jet seven years ago at an air show in China. What do you think is behind the timing of the decision to buy these planes?

Dr. Conn Hallinnan: Well, it is not exactly the same fighter jet. They took the old Su-35, which I believe the NATO designation was Flanker, and they essentially redesigned it. So it is faster, it has got longer range, more capabilities and can carry more ordinance, etc. I think it is very much a kind of an answer…

President Obama was in Asia recently, and he announced $250 million to various countries in South East Asia: Indonesia, Japan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia to buy and get American military hardware. And I think that the announcement of this sale is sort of the counter. In other words, if you give all the stuff to your potential allies, then what we’re doing is giving one of our high performance aircraft - interceptors and fighter bombers - to China. It’s sort of an answer to the US F-35 moving to Asia and the SU-35 is a good match for the F-35.

RT: What message could this send to China's rivals in the region, particularly Japan?

Dr. CH: I think that Japan yes, but I also think there is South Korean, there is Australia. What is happening here is the Chinese have been pushing very hard in the South China Sea, a little too hard in my opinion; I think they’ve stirred up unnecessary antagonism. But what they are responding to… is the fact that they look around, and what they see is that from India to South Korea and Japan the US has ringed them with potential adversaries. And this purchase of the Sukhoi is an answer to that. The SU-35 is better than anything right now in the Chinese air force. It is faster than the F-35, and it has got greater range than the F-35; it’s more flexible in terms of what it can do; it doesn’t have stealth capacity, but stealth capacity is overrated in any case.

RT: As you said Washington is planning to boost its presence in the Asia-Pacific with the latest generation of aircraft and warships within the next few years. What reaction can we expect from the US now?

Dr. CH: I suspect what you are going to see is a sort of a pushback. I think that Russia is in part doing that in Syria, and I think the Chinese are doing it in the South China Sea, and to a certain extent in South Asia... The US has been pushing, and I think you’re going to see the Russians and the Chinese begin to push back a little bit more. We hope, of course, this doesn’t get into a serious phase. I’m always nervous when you have high-performance aircraft that have the potential to start an incident

What this very much is is China and Russia’s answer to the past two decades: NATO moving Eastward, the Georgia war, the Yugoslav war, the attempt at a Ukraine coup, an attempt to overthrow the Assad regime in Syria, and at the same time a lot of US pressure in the Philippines, Japan, Vietnam, etc. sort of bumping up against the Chinese. What you seeing here is a kind of a worldwide picture – it is not really derestricted to the Asian Pacific region.

RT: We also know that China is developing its own fifth-generation fighter jet, the Chengdu J-20. Do you expect the country to continue to buy Russian military hardware in the future, or they will go with their own?

Dr. CH: I think it is actually in the interest of the Chinese to do so. In other words, the Chinese are developing their own aircraft, but the SU-35 is a relatively inexpensive airplane – it is only something like $63-65 million apiece. You compare that to something like the F-35 which is between $98 million and about $110 million apiece. It is a pretty good deal for China. Also China is putting a lot of their resources at this point into their maritime forces and they are expensive. So if you can get an airplane that is a solid airplane, easy to maintain, has good capabilities for pretty much bargain basement prices it’d be silly not to take it.

[Austin]

Hopefully it works out , Tourism season this year in goa is worst

Goa sees opportunities after the closure of Egypt
20 November 2015 Boris Egorov, RIR
The ban on flights of Russian and European aircraft to Egypt could play into the hands of Goa.

The ban on flights of Russian and European aircraft to Egypt could play into the hands of Goa, reports the Internet portal Tourporm. This year, the number of charter flights to this holiday state of India barely exceeded 630 – the lowest figure in the past five years. Today, local host companies are hoping for an additional number of tourists to come from Russia and Europe.

Russia and the United Kingdom are considered the leading sources of customers for Egyptian tourism. They also account for the main volume (60%) of tourist traffic to Goa.

Starting from November 19 until the end of the month, the charter company Royal Airlines will be carrying out additional flights from Moscow to Goa. These will be smoothly continued in December. The question now is to work jointly with Russian tour operators to increase the number of tourists.

Over the past five years, Russia has become the leading generator of domestic tourist traffic in this region of India.

[Philip]

And now Turkey off limits too! So my dear "ornithologists",this winter is going to be the perfect time to "birdwatch" in Goa,seeing the annual migration south of "birds" from Russia! Anyone for Goa?

On a more serious note,the events in the Levant will be bound to have an effect on the visit of Mr.Modi to Moscow.Intl. relations will be very much on the agenda. One only hopes that the Turk-sh*t doesn't hit the fan again during his visit. There are very important matters in the offing ,mainly defence and security,from India's viewpoint which need to be tied up.Some deals have been lukewarm for too long.Past time to finalise. Russia and Putin will also be hoping to see India support it internationally in its fight against ISIS and Mr.M will also bring up the subject of Paki terror.There can't be double standards whatsoever.

[Mort Walker]

^^^Goa and India may not see any significant increase in Russian tourists as the recent acid attack on a Russian woman and about 5 years back the rape of a 9 year old Russian girl in Goa has given India some really bad negative publicity. IRC, Russia publicly condemned the rape of the 9 year old in Goa.

[Mort Walker]

Russia places travel warning on India. India is unsafe.

http://m.economictimes.com/industry/ser ... 966980.cms

The Russians have a derogatory and racist view of Indians.

[deWalker]

Russia places travel warning on India. India is unsafe.

The Russians have a derogatory and racist view of Indians.

I respectfully disagree. The Russians suddenly developed a derogatory and racist view of Indians on Nov 28th 2015? I suggest the culprit may be things like "the unfortunate incidents with taxi drivers" that the article mentions. I feel strongly about this because I've had family members assaulted - and I'm a pucca Andhra sdre from Bombay as general information.

We've built a bad rep. It's coming back to hurt us.

D/

[Philip]

False alarm: The Russians have denied issuing an advisory on India.

[Mort Walker]

I respectfully disagree. The Russians suddenly developed a derogatory and racist view of Indians on Nov 28th 2015? I suggest the culprit may be things like "the unfortunate incidents with taxi drivers" that the article mentions. I feel strongly about this because I've had family members assaulted - and I'm a pucca Andhra sdre from Bombay as general information.

We've built a bad rep. It's coming back to hurt us.

D/

From the article:

"Both India and Goa were not considered as good destinations for Russian travellers," said Ekaterina Belyakova, head of the Russian information centre.

It isn't just Goa, but all of India as it has been blacklisted along with Egypt and Turkey. Putin is playing power politics with India, plain and simple, and the Russian leadership have contempt for India. They are no different than the rest of the Europeans in their view of India. India is safe for EVERYONE regardless of nationality and religion. The biggest danger in India is road traffic in major metros.

This is dirty politics by Putin and his cronies to politically force India to devalue the Rupee against the failing currency known as the Rouble. Then stick it to India in the ass when comes time to buy expensive military hardware when Modi goes to visit in December.

[A_Gupta]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/rus ... lWglN.html

Russia hasn’t dropped India from list of safe destinations: Officials

Russia on Sunday denied that India has been dropped from its list of safe destinations for tourists, with the Russian Information Centre based in Goa clarifying that a press statement issued earlier had been misinterpreted.

“Our statement did not have any information regarding removal of India from the list of safe countries or including India in the list of unsafe countries as was mentioned in several reports and headlines published in the Indian media,” Ekaterina Belyakova, head of the centre, said in a statement issued on Sunday.

[disha]

^^ Actually it will be good if Russians and Israelis do not come to Goa and other Indian places for a while. Entire Goa beach stretch requires sanitization.

[Mort Walker]

^^^No it is not. It is about tourism and understanding different cultures and places, and finally it is about commerce, employment and Forex.

[Mort Walker]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/rus ... lWglN.html

Russia hasn’t dropped India from list of safe destinations: Officials

Russia on Sunday denied that India has been dropped from its list of safe destinations for tourists, with the Russian Information Centre based in Goa clarifying that a press statement issued earlier had been misinterpreted.

“Our statement did not have any information regarding removal of India from the list of safe countries or including India in the list of unsafe countries as was mentioned in several reports and headlines published in the Indian media,” Ekaterina Belyakova, head of the centre, said in a statement issued on Sunday.

I hope you are correct. Perhaps the story was a plant by western agencies in the DDM. If true, it makes one very upset.

[srin]

Ahh - storm in a teacup then. But it was fun to see Ruski apologists justify this supposed decision on this dhaga

[ldev]

I think it will be beneficial to have no illusions about Putin. Viktor Orban, the Prime Minister of Hungary has probably the best relationship that any European leader has with Putin, but here is his hard headed evaluation about dealing with Putin. According to Orban, dealing with Putin is all about power, no principles involved. Maybe, just maybe, one of the reasons for India trying to diversify its arms purchases is because of this reality, which can be quite unpredictable in bilateral relationship between countries.. Not that the US is any different, but what is apparent is that Russia has now moved in the direction of the US in terms of hard headed realism in its foreign policy, nothing sentimental about it. The Chinese are not too different i.e. all great powers and aspiring great powers are very hard headed and realistic in their dealings with other countries.

Viktor Orban on Putin

BUDAPEST — Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin are an eye-catching couple on the international stage. Coming from starkly different political backgrounds, the men — about a decade apart in age — have built perhaps the best relationship that exists between a leader of a NATO and EU country and the Russian president.

The Hungarian prime minister, an anti-Soviet “freedom fighter” (his words), unapologetically defends his vision of “illiberal” politics that puts national interest above EU “solidarity” and strong leadership above the niceties of checks and balances. With a hard repressive edge at home, the former KGB agent (and the elder of the two) who rules over the Kremlin these days invokes Christian values and blunt force, whether in Ukraine or Syria, to rebuild Russia’s standing in the world.

In an interview with POLITICO published on Monday morning, Orbán spoke at length about their relationship. An edited excerpt of that section of the interview is below:

Q: You risked your life to end communism.

Orban: It’s too much to say that because the Hungarian communist regime was not as [repressive] as the Polish one. But of course there were some risks. Nobody was aware [that] this whole process would have resulted in freedom.

Q:But you helped bring down the Soviet empire…

I took risks, I took a lot of risks to destroy [it], that’s correct to say.

Q:The question I have is, does it make you uncomfortable that you are seen to have such a cozy relationship with a man who was a cog in the Soviet empire and is, to some lights, now trying to restore a version of it?

It’s strange, but politics is full of strange things so it’s not uncomfortable. That’s part of the job. And you know politics is basically not a personal issue, and what I represent is not my opinion but the interests of the Hungarian nation. And the point is very clear, without the Russians it’s impossible to manage rightly the future of the Hungarians. So we have to have a good balanced relationship with the Russians.

Putin is someone you can cooperate with. He’s not an easy man. He has no personal feelings [for] you. He’s representing the power, the interests of Russia, so he’s a very tough negotiating power. But he knows as everybody in Europe does that whatever has happened in the past which was rather bad for the Hungarians — destroying the ’56 revolution and so on — if you would like to a future which is good for both of us, we should find a way to cooperate. I’m working on that.

I have an even wider vision on that because I think that we need a free trade zone from Lisbon to Vladivostok, which would mean that the European Union has a strategy where the Russians have a proper place in it.

Q:Do you like Putin, personally?

Is there anybody who has seen the personality of Putin? He is not a man who has a known personality, so don’t imagine him as you like to imagine Western leaders.

In the Western political culture, the personal relationship, knowing each other on a personal basis, is part of everyday life. It’s totally impossible in Russian politics. So don’t overestimate your capacity to understand Russian politics. Don’t do that. You know, at the prime ministers’ summits we always call each other by our first names: Viktor and Angela and so on. It would be impossible in a Russian negotiation; it would never happen. So therefore, the personal issue does not play a role at all – neither in my mind, neither in the mind of Putin. But anyway I would not deny if I would have a good personal relationship with Putin because I don’t like to follow the request of the Western approaches. You know, it does it not matter for us.

Q:What does Hungary get out of a cooperative relationship with Russia?

The first [thing] is security. We need to have a good NATO-Russian relationship, because we are living in a border zone. So we need NATO membership no doubt – 90 percent of the Hungarian people voted for NATO membership – but at the same time a manageable relationship between the Russians and NATO.

The second is energy. We are in a far easier situation than we were. In 2010 when I came back [into office as prime minister], one of my number one priorities was the energy independence of Hungary. We have done so. We build a pipeline together with the Slovaks, from Slovakia up to the Nordic system. Now there is a chance to get gas not exclusively from Russia. The Russians are far cheaper anyway, but it’s not an existential dependence anymore.

But the first major sovereignty [priority] of mine after 2010 was to buy back – which was a very tough hours-long negotiation with Putin – to stop the Russians [from buying a large stake] in the Hungarian oil company MOL. And we stopped it. That was a very important step for energy sovereignty.

So the Russian-Hungarian relationship is not black and white. Historically, economically it’s very complicated. But I am not an ideologically-led person to the Russians. I try to have a common sense, reality-based policy. The only way if you would like to have a good [relationship] with the Russians is power policy based on reality. If you would like to have a relationship with the Russians based on principles it will never work. The European principles and the priority list of the principles are totally different than the priority list of the principles in Russia. It’s impossible to harmonize. So put aside principles, ideologies and look at the interest, and find the common sense realpolitik agreements. That’s the Hungarian approach.

It’s not shared by many. There are some countries who openly oppose it, like the Polish, who are our greatest friends anyway in Europe. And there are some countries who like to, who appear as opposing, but in fact they doing even more than we do. That’s the German policy.

Orban laughs

Look at the agreement [between Berlin and Moscow] on the Nord Stream II [gas pipeline under the Baltic Sea]. So there are different kinds of approaches.

Q:How do you compare dealing with Angela Merkel and Putin?

It’s easier with Merkel because with Merkel we have a principle-based policy. So if you agree on certain principles it’s easy to manage the reality. Just the opposite with Putin. We can manage some reality, but never agree on principle. As we Hungarians like to say, it’s a different coffee house.

Q:Does your relationship with Russia give you leverage with Germany?

Of course, you know, my foreign policy strategy is very simple. I try to create a situation when everybody is interested in the success of Hungary. It means I cannot, or Hungary cannot, depend on one major player. Hungary is not big enough to maintain its sovereignty and room for maneuvering if its relationships with the big powers are not properly balanced. So we need the German relationship, we need the Russian one, we need the Turkish one, we need the Chinese one. If any of them we lose, [our] sovereignty is in a very difficult situation. We cooperate with the Germans but we would not like to depend on the Germans. We cooperate with the Russians but we would not like to depend on the Russians.

Q:Given what you said about Russia and the importance of having cooperation, what do you think should be done with the EU sanctions with Russia when they come up for renewal at the end of this year?

You should know that the Crimea issue is a complicated international law issue, looking at the history of the Soviet Union. But I understand that we Westerners had to give a clear sign that this is not the way of the future. That’s fine.

But we have done so. So now, we should concentrate on how to continue with cooperation, and sanctions are not the proper way. Therefore, I think that’s the right time to rethink the Russian policy of the European Union. But you know, we are basically alone, or together with the Slovaks, with the Czechs, only few of us representing that opinion. So the key issue here again: the German policy. If the Germans would like to have again a balanced, vow-based relationship with the Russians, the European Union will do so. So that’s where we are.

Q:You could veto the renewal of sanctions on Russia.

I can do so, we can do so. But a veto is not a right – veto is screaming. If a [country] of 10 million in NATO vetoes, it must be so obviously necessary, which is far bigger issues than the sanctions on Russia. A veto is a nuclear bomb; it’s good to have but don’t use it.

[Yagnasri]

We do have a serious problem with our law and order. There is no denying that. A lot need to improve to make India a very good tourist destination. One the other hand Russians do have a very bad view of Indian, whom they may be considering us as cockroaches. It is all good speak about national friendship but race based views are there to stay and there is no reason for Russian people to change it.

[Y. Kanan]

Slightly OT but something that quite stands out in this Russian campaign over Syria: the simplicity of their hardware. Most of the work is being done by SU-24's and SU-25's, basically being used as "bomb trucks" and delivering mostly unguided ordnance. They use GLONASS and drones to insure more accurate bombing runs but it's mostly a primitive 1970's style effort with a few exceptions, like the Ruskis testing out new cruise mijjiles and SU-34's... and yet this low-tech effort is plenty good enough; it gets the job done. Note these primitive SU-24's, Su-25's & Hinds are not falling out of the sky (at least not on their own).

What does all this say about the IAF's demand for Rafales, etc? They're seemingly obsessed with the latest and greatest western toys but do we really need aircraft costing $100mil apiece or is this an issue of lacking professionalism? The Russians after all are doing just fine with what they have, most of which is (on paper) technically inferior to what the IAF is already flying. This issue of poor readiness and low-quality spares being not just an IAF matter but very much reflecting on govt-owned HAL as well...

It seems what we really need are better maintenance of the existing fleet and upgrades to get all aircraft tied into GLONASS as well as more widespread use of force multipliers like drones & AWAWCS...

How many drones can you buy for the cost of one Rafale? How many SU-30MKI spares do you get for $110 miliion?

[Philip]

Spot on YK! This is exactly what I've been saying for aeons,also quoting from the good USN CNO,Admiral Greenert who retd. a few months ago,that "bomb trucks" did the business and were better than "luxury cars" in many situations.Here's his famous quote,PM,DM,MOD,IAF please take note:

Writing in Naval Proceedings magazine, Adm. Jonathan W. Greenert argues that “we need to move from ‘luxury-car’ platforms—with their built-in capabilities—toward dependable ‘trucks’ that can handle a changing payload selection.”

The Rafale has been perfectly described...a luxury car platform.

[sarang]

I think conditions in our neighbourhood are different than syria

[Philip]

True,but look at the sophistication,or lack of in the neighbourhood also. Pak's best shot at u are its approx. 5+ sqds of F-16s. The bulk of its air force is going to comprise the "thundering" JF-17. This fly can be easily swatted by even our Bisons of yesteryear,not to mention LCAs,29 and M-2000 UGs.On the Chinese front we will face Flankers and JF-17s,plus elements of China's legacy bombing fleet.Our MKIs are superior to their legacy Flankers and their clones.If they are able to put into service their stealth birds,then we must do the same with the FGFA/T-50.700+ aircraft is inadequate to deal with both China and Pak.We need numbers badly of affordable multi-role aircraft ,preferably of a type already in service. This could be achieved with extra sqds of MIG-29/35s,Jaguars,LCAs and even some UG Jags .All MKIs are being upgraded to Super-S std. eventually.The 300 aircraft reqd. in the next 5+ years could come from this list,with 3+ sqds of FGFAs for also maintaining the advantage of quality.

[NRao]

I think conditions in our neighbourhood are different than syria

All the good Admiral meant was, if you buy Rafales, make sure it does more than one or two things. Whihc is what it seems to do.

Original artical:
http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedin ... new-course

Even the title is very clear.

[Y. Kanan]

That's not the spirit and intent of the admiral's position and you know this having preseumably read the article. Anyway who cares what some old US MID whore thinks. Common sense alone would tell you US armed forces would have been better served upgrading B-52's and B-1's to carry huge GPS guided bomb payloads vs pouring trillions into F-35, F-22, etc. The US can (sort of) afford this type of buffoonery but can we? After all in our case the wasted money doesn't go back into our own economy; it goes outside the country after suffering a punishing exchange rate conversion.

By the same token we can upgrade Jags & Mirage-2000's while increasing SU-30 production. We shouldn't be purchasing Rafales at Rs100,000crore apiece. This seems insane.

[Prem]

http://thenamopatrika.com/russia-offers ... -to-india/
RUSSIA OFFERS TURKISH SLOT TO INDIA

Russia is offering Indian companies a chance to replace Turkey in the Russian market, Russia’s visiting Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin told journalists in New Delhi.Visiting Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin arrived in India on December 8 to finalize preparations for the annual Russia-India Summit scheduled to be held later this month in Moscow. Speaking to Russian journalists after a series of substantive meetings with Indian officials and leaders, including Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, Rogozin said Russia had offered Indian companies a chance to replace Turkish companies in the Russian market.“Everything that we discussed today mostly had to do with the fight against terrorism and the radical form of Islam. We know that India has vast experience in this struggle. Moreover, this experience is quite dramatic,” said Rogozin.“The visit of the Indian prime minister will be of a deep and substantial character. Both in terms of discussions on joint efforts to create a broad coalition against terrorism, and in terms of possible joint efforts undertaken in conditions when the two countries are not just on one side of the barricades, but occupy the leading positions in this struggle,” said Rogozin.The crisis of international terrorism is an important, but not the main vector of development of the Russia-India dialogue. During his meetings with the Indian leadership, Rogozin, also devoted a great deal of time to economic issues, calling for both sides to work to resolve “old chronic problems” that have remained in limbo for many years.“These are issues related to the protection of Russian investments; such as the problem in which AFK Sistema is involved and the second “titanium project”. Today, we discussed these issues, and I saw the Prime Minister of India express his desire to ensure that another determined effort is made to resolve these problems before his visit,” the visiting deputy PM said.The settlement of these disputes will open the way for new mutual investments, and intensify trade between the two countries. Especially now, given that some European manufacturers have left the Russian market and cooperation with Ankara is collapsing, favourable conditions for Indian companies are being created.

The trade turnover between Russia and India in 2014 amounted to just over $9 billion, which does not reflect the real potential of these two countries. In comparison, trade between India and South Korea was at the level of $17 billion.“Today we have reached agreement on the first steps to start cooperation with the relevant agency of the Government of India. This can include the development of satellites constellations and Earth remote sensing systems. This may also involve the creation of ground-based infrastructure, including navigational constellations,” said Rogozin.However, the two countries do not intend to limit their cooperation to just satellite technologies. Should India decide to join the Missile Technology Control Regime, Russian producers are ready to help their Indian colleagues build their own satellite delivery mechanisms to place satellites into the earth’s orbit, meaning missile technologies.“We have a high-quality huge export potential associated with rocket engine manufacturing,” the visiting minister said.The crucial highlight of the forthcoming summit is likely to be the signing of an agreement between the two governments that will lead to the launch of a project to construct a helicopter plant in India.“We held detailed discussions on concrete forms of localization of Russian technologies and the production of Russian equipment within the concept of the ‘Make in India’ programme. This concerns, above all else, the large helicopter project, and all efforts are being concentrated on completing all negotiations on this issue. We hope that the corresponding agreement will be reached by December 24 (when the Indian Prime Minister reaches Moscow: Editor). It will regulate relations between the two governments to support the production of Russian helicopters in India. These are the Ka-226T helicopter models,” the Deputy Prime Minister concluded.

[Philip]

Carpe diem,Mr.Modi! Let Turkey's loss be India's gain.

Is the sun going to rise from the "West",pun intended.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/d ... ainst-isis
UK and Russia agree to work together in fight against Isis
No 10 stresses David Cameron made clear to Vladimir Putin that UK opposes participation of Bashar al-Assad in any postwar regime

Patrick Wintour, Political editor

Wednesday 9 December 2015

David Cameron and Vladimir Putin have agreed to work together in the fight against Islamic State (Isis), Downing Street has said.

The two men spoke by phone early on Wednesday, after the prime minister called Putin to update him on Britain’s military action in Syria, following last week’s House of Commons vote to extend RAF missions against Isis – also known as Isil, IS or Daesh – over the border from Iraq.

Cameron made clear Britain’s continued opposition to the participation of Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad – an ally of Moscow – in any postwar regime in Damascus, telling Putin the country needed “a government that all the Syrian people can support”.

Putin: 'foreign experts' will examine black box from jet shot down by Turkey .

The prime minister also fended off a demand by the Russian president that he help provide British expertise to investigate how a Russian military plane was downed by Turkish military in November.

The shooting down of the plane, and the death of a Russian military pilot has led to a collapse in Russian-Turkish relations, and Putin appeared to try to enlist British involvement in the investigation as a neutral observer.

With Turkey a key ally of Britain, Cameron is unlikely to want to help since it might end with the UK having to judge whether the Turks had acted improperly. The Russians are understood to want UK assistance to interpret data in the black box of the plane.

The Russian pilot was shot dead as he parachuted from the aircraft into Syria, while another serviceman died on a search-and-rescue mission launched to retrieve him and a second crewman. The Russian defence minister, Sergei Shoigu, delivered the black box to the Kremlin on Wednesday, but was told by Putin not to allow it to be opened until international experts were available to examine it in the hope they will confirm Moscow’s version of events.

A UK government statement said the two sides have agreed their countries should work together in the fight against Isis, but Downing Street gave few concrete examples of how this greater co-operation would work in practice.

Britain continues to be critical of the way the Russian air campaign is not directed against Isis but against Syrian rebel forces.

Russia continues to insist outside powers cannot decide the leadership of Syria, and it is for the Syrian people to decide its government. The issue of Assad’s role in any transitional government is the single biggest sticking point between Russia and Iran on the one hand, and the west on the other.

Talks are due to recommence in New York next week on how the peace process restarted in Vienna two months ago can be taken forward. There are also due to be planning talks on Friday between the UN, US and Russia.

Cameron and Putin agreed they needed to implement agreements already made, and work to a timeline for the establishment of a transitional Syrian government within six months, followed by presidential elections.

The spokesman said: “They noted the talks taking place in Riyadh, hosted by the Saudi Arabia government and bringing together opposition groups, with the prime minister reiterating that those signed up to the Geneva principles should be part of these talks”.

The Saudi talks are not being attended by the Kurds or the Syrian government, but are supposed to agree the negotiating team that would meet with the current Syrian government next year.

[A_Gupta]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 194305.cms
"PM Modi's Russia visit to focus beyond defence ties; to seek investments for infrastructure fund"

[Kashi]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 194305.cms
"PM Modi's Russia visit to focus beyond defence ties; to seek investments for infrastructure fund"

Does Russia have the funds to invest in infrastructure in India, given the low oil prices and the impact they've had on the Russian economy?

Probably we could arrange for more Sakhalin-I type deals for oil and gas supplies in the future.

[Viv S]

Rostec Signs Strategic Cooperation Deal With China’s Norinco, CSGC

Russia’s state technologies corporation Rostec on Thursday signed a strategic cooperation agreement with two Chinese industrial companies, Rostec Deputy Chief Executive Dmitry Shugaev said.

BEIJING (Sputnik) – Rostec’s agreement with China North Industries Corporation (Norinco) and China Southern Power Grid Company (CSGC) were signed at the 20th annual Russia-China bilateral summit of heads of government, which is currently underway in Beijing.

"The implementation of the concluded agreements will allow our countries to bring bilateral technological, investment and trade cooperation to a new level. The activities of Norinco, CSGC and Rostec cover key industries, including motor-car construction, machine tools, electronics, energy and medical equipment," Shugaev said.

According to Shugaev, joint efforts in these spheres will allow both countries' companies to jointly create new products, improve their positions on world markets and share infrastructure.

Norinco and CSGC are two of China’s 10 largest corporations and rank 144th and 113th, respectively, in Fortune magazine’s 500 leading global companies.

Russia, China Could Sign Contract on Joint Heavy Helicopter by Mid-2016

Rostec deputy CEO on international affairs said that Russia’s state technologies corporation and China's Avicopter expect to sign a general contract and an intergovernmental agreement on the joint development of a heavy-lift helicopter by mid-2016.

BEIJING (Sputnik) – Russia’s state technologies corporation Rostec and China's Avicopter expect to sign a general contract and an intergovernmental agreement on the joint development of a heavy-lift helicopter by mid-2016, the Rostec deputy CEO on international affairs said Wednesday.

"We can say that both sides have aspirations to reach the signing of the contractual obligations and the intergovernmental agreement by the middle of next year. These are normal terms for such an amount of work," Dmitriy Shugaev said.

According to Shugaev, the contract would not be signed by the end of 2015, as previously expected.

According to Head of Rostec Beijing office Alexey Grishin, the parties came to the conclusion that it would be efficient "to sign subcontracts for the development of the main systems and components of the helicopter simultaneously with the general contract."

Grishin explained that it would help the sides to more accurately estimate the volume and cost of the work, as well as the areas covered by each parties.

In May, Russian Helicopters, part of Rostec, and the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) signed a framework cooperation agreement to introduce an advanced heavy-lift helicopter with maximum take-off weight of 38.2 tons.

Demand for the new helicopter in China is expected to surpass 200 helicopters during the period until 2040.

Russia’s state technologies corporation Rostec plans to sign wide-ranging strategic cooperation agreements with two Chinese industrial firms, Deputy Chief Executive said.

Rostec’s agreements with China North Industries Corporation (Norinco) and China Southern Power Grid Company (CSGC) will be concluded at the 20th annual Russia-China heads of state bilateral summit on Thursday.

"With this document, we close our series of agreements with major Chinese companies. Thus we cover the entire palette of our ties with Chinese partners. These are mainly power equipment, automotive components, optical devices and materials, medical equipment and high-precision machines," Shugaev said.

The two deals are planned to be signed in the presence of Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev and his Chinese counterpart Li Keqiang, who co-chair the 20th summit.

"This will allow Russian and Chinese companies to begin cooperating in promoting mutual trade, investment and technical cooperation in high technologies," Shugaev said.

Norinco and CSGC are two of China’s 10 largest military-industrial complex corporations and rank 152nd and 169th, respectively, among 500 leading global companies.

With 46 subsidiaries, Norinco’s sales volume totaled nearly $400 billion last year, followed by nearly $300 billion by CSGC.