India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 07 Dec 2015 23:06

Guess USA population isn't going to hear words like 'polarizing' in media, nor politicians would insist/plan to hold NSA level talks with pakis. It will be interesting to note how USA deals with terrorism from Pakistan, a war on terror NON NATO ally.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 08 Dec 2015 00:43

Those eyes of TusFeen are full of anger, must have been a long flight or something

.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Dec 2015 03:12

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/02/polit ... =obnetwork
Donald Trump on terrorists: 'Take out their families'

Washington (CNN)Donald Trump said Wednesday that he would kill the families of terrorists in order to win the fight against ISIS.The billionaire businessman was asked by the hosts of Fox News' "Fox and Friends" how to fight ISIS but also minimize civilian causalities when terrorists often use human shields."The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families," Trump said.Trump said he would "knock the hell out of" ISIS, and criticized the U.S. for "fighting a very politically correct war."

saip · Post by **saip** » 08 Dec 2015 04:17

In N Korea they take out three generations.

member_28533 · Post by **member_28533** » 08 Dec 2015 04:26

Trump calls for total and complete ban on immigration of Muslims !

------------
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/donald-t ... 05912.html

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Dec 2015 06:49

vishvak wrote:Guess USA population isn't going to hear words like 'polarizing' in media, nor politicians would insist/plan to hold NSA level talks with pakis. It will be interesting to note how USA deals with terrorism from Pakistan, a war on terror NON NATO ally.

Nothing will change. Pakistan has been too clever to get caught on the wrong side of the US and the US is like a reluctant lover. She has a headache but says OK screw me Pakistan.

With Islam being at war with the US, the US will try and say that it is not at war with Islam. For that they will mollycoddle and bribe those whom they consider their Islamic friends and tell them "Please leave us alone and look after our interests"

Nothing will change. Zilch. The US has money and weapons, but the people who are fighting the US have planned their war to fight an adversary with money and weapons. India is a bit player here. The US does not have much wiggle room even if they want India to "behave well with their whore, Pakistan". Pakistan has to behave well and the US can't control that behaviour while bribing Pakis. So the US will simply do what it can. Cooperate where it can or where it has no option and ignore or put pressure where it can.

We can discount the US as a nation that will arm and fund Pakistan forever, but will probably not fight for Pakistan like Chuck Yeager and Nixon did. US ability to control things reminds me of the story of the guy who bought a Rolls Royce for US$ 50 in Saudi and took it for a drive in the desert. The car went 5 miles and stopped. He looked under the hood and found no engine. Surprised, he called the dealer and asked how the car went 5 miles without an engine. The dealer said "Rolls Royce will always go some distance on its reputation alone"

US ability to control Pakistan or India-Pakistan relations is only reputation and hot air. It will go 5 miles and stop

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Dec 2015 06:53

mchilian wrote:Trump calls for total and complete ban on immigration of Muslims !

------------
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/donald-t ... 05912.html

Congratulations America on electing Hilary Clinton as the XYth President of the US. Secularism will trump Trump. Scratch the surface and the US is as dhimmi psec as india.

As an aside Trump sounds like Congressis bashing Modi for talks with shitland - i.e an opportunistic attempt to garner some support

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Dec 2015 08:02

^you never know about the amir khan aams. we have to go big time in 'understanding the us-part xy' dhaaga. many love him!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Dec 2015 08:04

hillary is still waffling and trying to rope in soft republican vote + her democratic groupies. she has no accomplishments to speak of.

trump atleast has put his views firmly on the table and will stand by it. in uncertain times, america needs a war president not a professional politician like hillary.

not that either is great from indic pov, but to choose between two tough options, I think hillary is very soft on TSP.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Dec 2015 08:35

well said.. trump is a trump card for India against TSP.

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Dec 2015 08:36

hitlery will win so that USA can particpate even more deeply in mid-east wars & conspiracies and receive just rewards in return. So it is written. After all she is one of architects of benghazi & syria, color attacks. Who better to lead USA in such 'challenging' times hain ??

Trump winning will mean an extension for project USA, it will gain some time and breathing space. So that won't happen.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Dec 2015 08:38

whoever it is, I'd hate another Nobel prize going towards POTUS direction. what a freaking waste!

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Dec 2015 08:41

Indics as usual have no clue on nature of abrahamic 'end-game' being played out. It's natural sequence of flow for them and it will play out it's natural violent course.

Seen aliens vs predators. Eventually both are killed.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Dec 2015 08:48

what did Obama achieve? the after-e-khans still face tremendous freedom struggle to grow and are in a perpetual upliftment crisis.

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Dec 2015 09:11

obama's achievements.

he is the face of ~~duplicitous~~ ~~duplicity~~ DC policy. If everything went swimmingly, he already got Nobell, if it all goes bad he is fall guy. From President Obama, he becomes Mr. Obama and even worse Obama. Modi calls him Bob anyway.

he controls nothing but has to justify everything. Tough job.
most of times when he is on TV, just mute voice and watch his body language.
It will resemble a man who helplessly, resignedly moves his hands about. Shoulders, arms no in sync.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Dec 2015 09:21

> aliens vs predators

that actually is a very apt description of the war between the western christian coalition vs militant islamists thats raged for a 1000 years now...an ancient blood fued between two species spawned from a common father - the purity and clear thought of the searing deserts.

the west(predators) are powerful, technically very advanced weapons, brutal and have elaborate periodic rituals where they slaughter on a industrial scale, hunters code, everyone armed to the teeth...on paper they are invincible, big tfta wheat, meat and milk fed physique - poster child badass. less in number than aliens.

the islamists(aliens) do not have the high technology base, but reproduce much more, and can exist even in the cold and zero atmosphere of space, very thick hide, can lay "eggs" (sleeper cells) into host societies until its time to chest burst out, creepy, always moving in the shadows, relentless , can take a lot of punishment but still cause mortal damage like those predators inside the pyramid were taken down one by one. once they swarm out of the hive, takes a lot of raw guts and firepower to even contain let alone defeat them.

both will show no mercy to any pagans and other riff raff found slinking around when on the warpath. will shred us with that shoulder pulse gun, spear us or cut our throats ear to ear....but the predators sometimes "tolerate" us when its a fight against the common enemy (aliens) or when some vestigal shared sentiment of being a biped intelligent species kick in (the big dog spared the girl in that movie)

russia is a sort of "outcast predator" who leads a offshoot of their main society. a "fallen knight of the high council" who was cast out in the freezing wastes of the east during a power struggle and leads a coalition of like minded who follow another ancient cross. they have a uneasy peace with the main predator society.

india is the dharmic mongrel hiding behind a pile of rocks (himalayas) and dhoti shivering at the prospect of either of these warlike hordes making a beeline for our den.

china is the ruthless pragmatic dragon who has got peace with the main predators by playing them off against the outcast predators, while at the same time rigging up the main predator city with underground tunnels filled with explosives...and the fuse leading back to its great hall, where the king dragon sometimes threatens to yawn and alight the fuse

in between all these lands, armies of random orcs and uruk hai move around setting things on fire - why? just because they can

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 08 Dec 2015 09:42

^^^ Basically we SDREs have nothing to describe them by, but their own literature and movies? They're beyond our imagination?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Dec 2015 09:46

^^ sire none of the atrocities inflicted on indian kingdoms in the early arab invasion years were by the 'indic rules of war' . things like sparing non-combatant camp followers and farmers, closing battle each day at dusk, no mass enslavement of defeated population, seeking negotiated settlements before onset of war, giving quarter to surrendering foes....sure these were also violated periodically in wars among indian kingdoms but not as a matter of doctrine. the MH and Ramayana is very clear on such matters. even Ravana who had done some wrong things followed the code of war. it was his mayavi son Indrajeet who bent the rules here and there.

scorched earth 'total war' is not a indic invention.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 08 Dec 2015 10:06

Trump winning will mean an extension for project USA, ...

whats the project USA ?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 08 Dec 2015 10:07

CRamS wrote:Those eyes of TusFeen are full of anger, must have been a long flight or something .

FTFy. It is like the war described in forever war by joe Haldeman. Now is the time for all to remember Gandhi ji's words - an eye for an eye makes the whole (abrahamic) world blind

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Dec 2015 10:12

svenkat wrote:
Trump winning will mean an extension for project USA, ...
whats the project USA ?

economy.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Dec 2015 10:40

thanks Vayu - amazing stuff. after 18 years in the line of duty, I too feel weary of the destruction of soul and humanity I have seen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War

Plot summary
William Mandella is a physics student conscripted for an elite task force in the United Nations Exploratory Force being assembled for a war against the Taurans, an alien species discovered when they apparently suddenly attacked human colonists' ships. The UNEF ground troops are sent out for reconnaissance and revenge.

The elite recruits have IQs of 150 and above, are highly educated, healthy, and fit. Training is gruelling – first on Earth, in Missouri, and later on a planet called "Charon" beyond Pluto (written before the discovery of the actual planetoid). Several of the recruits are killed during training, due to the extreme environments and the use of live weapons. The new soldiers then depart for action, traveling via interconnected 'collapsars' that allow ships to cover thousands of light-years in a split second. However, traveling to and from the collapsars at near-lightspeedhas massive relativistic effects.

Their first encounter with Taurans on a planet orbiting Epsilon Aurigae turns into a post-hypnotically suggested massacre, with the unresisting enemy wiped out. This first expedition, beginning in 1997, lasts only two years for the soldiers, but due to time dilation, decades have passed on Earth.[4] On the long way home, the soldiers experience future shock first-hand, as the Taurans employ increasingly advanced weaponry against them while they do not have the chance to re-arm.

Mandella, with soldier, lover, and companion Marygay Potter, returns to civilian life, only to find humanity drastically changed. He and his fellow soldiers have difficulty fitting into a society that has evolved almost beyond their comprehension. The veterans learn that, to curb overpopulation, which led to worldwide class wars caused by inequitable rationing, homosexuality has become officially encouraged by many of the world's nations. The world has become a very dangerous place due to widespread unemployment and the easy availability of deadly weapons. The changes within society alienate Mandella and the other veterans to the point where many re-enlist to escape, even though they realize the military is a soulless construct. Mandella attempts to get an assignment as an instructor on Luna, but is promptly reassigned by standing order to combat command. The inability of the military to treat its soldiers as more than highly complex valuable machines is a theme of the story.

Almost entirely through luck, Mandella survives four years of military service, while several centuries elapse elsewhere. He soon becomes the objectively oldest surviving soldier in the war, attaining high rank through seniority, not ambition (he is essentially a pacifist who acts mostly from talent and a melancholic sense of duty). He and Marygay (who has remained his last contact with the Earth of his youth) are finally given different assignments, meaning it will be extremely unlikely they will ever see each other again (assuming they both survive). As the commanding officer of a 'strike force', Mandella commands soldiers who speak a language largely unrecognizable to him, whose ethnicity is now nearly uniform and who are exclusively homosexual. He is disliked by his soldiers because they have to learn 21st century English to communicate with him and other senior staff, and because he is heterosexual.

Engaging in combat thousands of light years away from Earth, Mandella and his soldiers need to resort to medieval weapons in order to fight inside a stasis fieldwhich neutralizes all electromagnetic radiation in anything not covered with a protective coating. It turns out to be the last conflict of the war. Humanity has begun to clone itself, resulting in a new, collective species calling itself simply Man. Man is able to communicate with the Taurans, who are also clones. It is discovered that the war started due to a misunderstanding. The futile, meaningless war that lasted for more than a thousand years ends.

Man has established several colonies of old-style, heterosexual humans, just in case the evolutionary change proves to be a mistake. Mandella travels to one of these colonies, named "Middle Finger" in the definitive version of the novel. There, he is reunited with Marygay, who had been discharged much earlier and had taken trips in space to use time dilation to age at a much slower rate, hoping and waiting for Mandella's return. The epilogue is a news item from the year 3143 announcing the birth of a "fine baby boy" to Marygay Potter-Mandella.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 08 Dec 2015 10:48

Great book that GD. Read it last year. Bits in the middle where (if you're not totally focused) it becomes a bit like the middle of a movie sex scene that goes on too long, and people start rolling eyes, but net net well worth it in the end. Good read.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 08 Dec 2015 11:04

^^^^Hugo award winner by Joe Haldeman US Army Vietnam war draftee veteran, Combat engineer, Purple Heart recipient.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 08 Dec 2015 16:36

Someone in this forum long time ago said our ancestors referred to Arabs as Pishachaas.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Dec 2015 19:17

Singha wrote:> aliens vs predators

that actually is a very apt description of the war between the western christian coalition vs militant islamists thats raged for a 1000 years now...an ancient blood fued between two species spawned from a common father - the purity and clear thought of the searing deserts.

the west(predators) are powerful, technically very advanced weapons, brutal and have elaborate periodic rituals where they slaughter on a industrial scale, hunters code, everyone armed to the teeth...on paper they are invincible, big tfta wheat, meat and milk fed physique - poster child badass. less in number than aliens.

the islamists(aliens) do not have the high technology base, but reproduce much more, and can exist even in the cold and zero atmosphere of space, very thick hide, can lay "eggs" (sleeper cells) into host societies until its time to chest burst out, creepy, always moving in the shadows, relentless , can take a lot of punishment but still cause mortal damage like those predators inside the pyramid were taken down one by one. once they swarm out of the hive, takes a lot of raw guts and firepower to even contain let alone defeat them.

both will show no mercy to any pagans and other riff raff found slinking around when on the warpath. will shred us with that shoulder pulse gun, spear us or cut our throats ear to ear....but the predators sometimes "tolerate" us when its a fight against the common enemy (aliens) or when some vestigal shared sentiment of being a biped intelligent species kick in (the big dog spared the girl in that movie)

russia is a sort of "outcast predator" who leads a offshoot of their main society. a "fallen knight of the high council" who was cast out in the freezing wastes of the east during a power struggle and leads a coalition of like minded who follow another ancient cross. they have a uneasy peace with the main predator society.

india is the dharmic mongrel hiding behind a pile of rocks (himalayas) and dhoti shivering at the prospect of either of these warlike hordes making a beeline for our den.

china is the ruthless pragmatic dragon who has got peace with the main predators by playing them off against the outcast predators, while at the same time rigging up the main predator city with underground tunnels filled with explosives...and the fuse leading back to its great hall, where the king dragon sometimes threatens to yawn and alight the fuse

in between all these lands, armies of random orcs and uruk hai move around setting things on fire - why? just because they can

next tollywood for sure!

great post! the end-game can be now teasers. all copyrights reserved here.

meanwhile the dhoti shiver can pray for some more natural disasters for an epic eventuality

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Dec 2015 23:19

habal wrote:
svenkat wrote:Trump winning will mean an extension for project USA, ...e]whats the project
USA economy.

Actually War Economy . It will bring new technologies in Markeet to do Maar-Peet of those now spreading Pakis..it.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 08 Dec 2015 23:33

Great post singha ji, more realistic than Airyan Invasion Theory passed off as history in schools.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 08 Dec 2015 23:42

Could not help but notice something in this series of photographs of King Salman of Saudi Arabia meeting various leaders at the G20 in Turkey:

Here he is with Modi, fully attentive

with Putin, again full attention on Putin

smiling with Abe

smiling and fully attentive with Cameron

smiling with Merkel

and finally with Obama, as though he is holding Court, and Obama sitting upright is waiting for instructions??? After that last photo some time ago of Obama almost bowing in front of King Abdullah, what's with the Saudi kings and Obama???

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 09 Dec 2015 00:05

It is not just president Obama, but all Americans bow down - spice must keep flowing. Otherwise thousands of container ships will be waiting at container wharves of Dalian, Tianjin, Qingdao, Shanghai, Ningbo, Xiamen and Shenzhen to ship urgently needed cell phones and other daily electronic victuals for conspicuous consumption by millions of my "football, Sicilian pizza, and beer" friends, Americans, and countrymen.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 09 Dec 2015 00:21

ldev, I hope you are not serious.

Pictures can be taken at the right moment to spin any story you want. I have a friend on FB who is a Modi fanatic and Obama hater and he keeps posting about how Putin is more popular in USA than Obama. For that he quotes "Russia Today" site.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 09 Dec 2015 01:21

The aliens vs predators analogy is oddly thought provoking, notwithstanding any unhinged objections.

A yogi indifferent to the desert kung fu fighting ideologies is perhaps what India is aiming for. The predators set the aliens kung fuing each other, ocassionally interjecting to keep up the general kung fu levels. The yogi, who studied under Chanakya, will only break samadhi to open the third eye.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 09 Dec 2015 02:29

vayu tuvan wrote:
CRamS wrote:Those eyes of TusFeen are full of anger, must have been a long flight or something .
FTFy. It is like the war described in forever war by joe Haldeman. Now is the time for all to remember Gandhi ji's words - an eye for an eye makes the whole (abrahamic) world blind

The alternative is to give those guys a second chance to put your other eye out. It would thus not be a kingdom of the one eyed but one where there are people with stereoscopic vision and those without any.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 09 Dec 2015 06:20

KJo wrote:ldev, I hope you are not serious.
Pictures can be taken at the right moment to spin any story you want. I have a friend on FB who is a Modi fanatic and Obama hater and he keeps posting about how Putin is more popular in USA than Obama. For that he quotes "Russia Today" site.

KJo,

That series of photographs was taken from a semi official Saudi twitter account that follows Saudi royalty. I am sure you know that a photographer never takes just one photograph on such occasions but a series of photographs, sometimes as many as 40-50. The fact is that the Saudis chose to release this one for Obama and the smiley ones for the other leaders. Why??? Who knows? Maybe to show Obama in a bad light. This was taken in Turkey when the Russians were already bombing the sh*t out of the Saudi IS allies in Syria. One way to signal displeasure that in their eyes Obama was not doing much to counter the Russians?

But then Obama invites such treatment. I am sure you remember this one.

You should think about all this before rolling eyes.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 09 Dec 2015 06:44

Singha wrote:scorched earth 'total war' is not a indic invention.

True. So true.

Scorched earth defense is mentioned by Bhishma in Santi Parva of the Mahabharata.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m12/m12a068.htm

A king, when attacked, if the circumstances dictate, should relocate the villages, remove all grain stores or destroy them by fire, destroy all bridges over rivers, empty all water tanks or else poison them, cut down all small trees, and except for Chaitya trees, have all the large branches of large trees lopped off, destroy his lesser forts and withdraw into his main fort.

Kautilya's Arthashastra mentions a scorched earth type treaty - i.e., when a king has to cede territory, he first strips it of anything of value before ceding it.

The Greek Megasthenes (390 BC - 250 BC) noted "Whereas among all nations at war, it is the custom to ravage the soil and reduce it to uncivilized waste, among Indians....they neither ravage the enemies' towns with fire, nor do they cut down trees."

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 09 Dec 2015 07:56

ldev wrote:
KJo wrote:ldev, I hope you are not serious.
Pictures can be taken at the right moment to spin any story you want. I have a friend on FB who is a Modi fanatic and Obama hater and he keeps posting about how Putin is more popular in USA than Obama. For that he quotes "Russia Today" site.
KJo,

That series of photographs was taken from a semi official Saudi twitter account that follows Saudi royalty. I am sure you know that a photographer never takes just one photograph on such occasions but a series of photographs, sometimes as many as 40-50. The fact is that the Saudis chose to release this one for Obama and the smiley ones for the other leaders. Why??? Who knows? Maybe to show Obama in a bad light. This was taken in Turkey when the Russians were already bombing the sh*t out of the Saudi IS allies in Syria. One way to signal displeasure that in their eyes Obama was not doing much to counter the Russians?

But then Obama invites such treatment. I am sure you remember this one.

You should think about all this before rolling eyes.

So what's your point?

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 09 Dec 2015 08:15

KJo wrote:
So what's your point?

Cannot help you if you do not get the point. Sorry.

habal · Post by **habal** » 09 Dec 2015 09:17

Is Obama still a muslim .. or atleast crypto .. that he has to bow in deference at Saudi king ?
because otherwise it makes no sense.
why else does he have to adopt such a compromising body language before saudi royalty ?
only others doing so are the pakis and maybe other non-arab muslim countries below poverty line.

his wife is not a muslim and she has nothing but the deepest contempt for all things arab, whatever else one might say about her.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Dec 2015 10:03

lucrative speaking and consulting assignments / arab sovereign fund advisor seats .... post laying down office...

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 09 Dec 2015 10:38

Habal ji, religion has nothing to do with it. If your pilots are not in spice tanks, interstellar transport will come to an abrupt grinding halt, no?mit used to be that one can fill ones tank for free in lowly UAE a decade or so ago. Some who bow even lorwer get a billion dollars worth of black gold every year for free.