Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Nov 21, 2015

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 10 Dec 2015 12:21

Is there a link to the joint statement between the two NSAs? I've been trying to find the damn thing online with no success.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 10 Dec 2015 12:52

JE Menon wrote:Is there a link to the joint statement between the two NSAs? I've been trying to find the damn thing online with no success.

Joint Statement Issued by National Security Advisors of India, Pakistan - NDTV

December 06, 2015

Pursuant to the meetings of the Prime Ministers of India and Pakistan in Paris, the National Security Advisers, accompanied by the Foreign Secretaries, met in Bangkok today.

Discussions were held in a candid, cordial and constructive atmosphere.

They were guided by the vision of the two leaders for a peaceful stable and prosperous South Asia.

Discussions covered peace and security, terrorism, Jammu and Kashmir, and other issues, including tranquility along the LoC.

It was agreed to carry forward the constructive engagement.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Dec 2015 13:05

JE Menon wrote:Is there a link to the joint statement between the two NSAs? I've been trying to find the damn thing online with no success.

Our Ministry of External Affairs carries it:

Joint Press Release on meeting of National Security Advisers of India and Pakistan in Bangkok

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 10 Dec 2015 13:57

Thanks guys. Weird, I was trawling through the MEA site and found only PMs and EAM statements.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Dec 2015 16:15

Moving on from the Bangkok NSA meeting text to the Islamabad Meeting text between our EAM and the terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan's Prime Ministerial Adviser:

Joint Statement on Discussion between External Affairs Minister and Adviser to the Prime Minister of Pakistan on Foreign Affairs in Islamabad (December 09, 2015)

December 09, 2015

1.The External Affairs Minister of India, Smt. Sushma Swaraj led the Indian delegation to the Fifth Ministerial Conference of the Heart of Asia-Istanbul Process in Islamabad on December 8-9, 2015. She called on the Prime Minister of Pakistan, Mr. Muhammad Nawaz Sharif and held discussions with Adviser to the Prime Minister on Foreign Affairs, Mr. Sartaj Aziz.
2. The EAM and the Adviser condemned terrorism and resolved to cooperate to eliminate it. They noted the successful talks on terrorism and security related issues in Bangkok by the two NSAs and decided that the NSAs will continue to address all issues connected to terrorism. The Indian side was assured of the steps being taken to expedite the early conclusion of the Mumbai trial.
3. Both sides, accordingly, agreed to a Comprehensive Bilateral Dialogue and directed the Foreign Secretaries to work out the modalities and schedule of the meetings under the Dialogue including Peace and Security, CBMs, Jammu & Kashmir, Siachen, Sir Creek, Wullar Barrage/Tulbul Navigation Project, Economic and Commercial Cooperation, Counter-Terrorism, Narcotics Control, Humanitarian Issues, People to People exchanges and religious tourism.
Islamabad
December 09, 2015

MEA Press Release

And so the BJP led Government of Prime Minister Modi has gone a complete circle from only contact for regional SAARC multilateral purpose with the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, to Ufa formulation of pre announced NSA level talks for discussing Terrorism in New Delhi, to secret unannounced NSA plus Foreign Secretary level talks in Bangkok to discuss all matters besides Terrorism, to full composite dialogue with nothing concrete to show.

I am gravely disappointed with the BJP. I now look forward to the opposition excoriating the PM Modi led BJP Government in Parliament.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 10 Dec 2015 16:36

RE: "Pakistan Is Not the Place Americans Think It Is" : Huffington Post
Arun-ji:
Let me add a few more "listings", conveniently missed , in the true Taqiyah tradition , by the Paki "Author, activist and law enforcement trainer (?) whatever that means

1. First female of Head Of State of an Islamic nation, assassinated by own state agencies; first Islamic nation to request UN to investigate that murder, as state agencies could not be trusted to be impartial
2. First scientist of an Islamic nation openly accused of involvement in Nuclear proliferation and "stealing" blue prints for an atom bomb (Xerox Khan)
3. First LSE graduate and protege of OBL and ISI double agent (Omar Saeed Sheikh), mastermind and financier of 9-11 fame, proven guilty of murdering a US journalist (Daniel Pearl)

Of course this list is not complete !

member_23692 · Post by **member_23692** » 10 Dec 2015 16:42

Here is an example of Indian grand strategy. Bonhomie, smile, subservience.......

The Afghans on the other hand were frowning upon the fact that their president Ghani flashed a faint smile, when accorded a welcome by Pakistanis fit for the Chinese President or Saudi King in Pakistan.

So much for our Chankiyan grand strategy......acting subservient and smiling brightly at killers, murderers and genocidal maniacs, of whom, Hindus are by far the worst sufferers.....

Joseph · Post by **Joseph** » 10 Dec 2015 16:49

Based on her background, is it a huge surprise to the ISI that Tashfeen Malik pledged her allegiance to the ISIS?

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 10 Dec 2015 16:52

arun wrote:Moving on from the Bangkok NSA meeting text to the Islamabad Meeting text between our EAM and the terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan's Prime Ministerial Adviser:

Joint Statement on Discussion between External Affairs Minister and Adviser to the Prime Minister of Pakistan on Foreign Affairs in Islamabad (December 09, 2015)

December 09, 2015

1.The External Affairs Minister of India, Smt. Sushma Swaraj led the Indian delegation to the Fifth Ministerial Conference of the Heart of Asia-Istanbul Process in Islamabad on December 8-9, 2015. She called on the Prime Minister of Pakistan, Mr. Muhammad Nawaz Sharif and held discussions with Adviser to the Prime Minister on Foreign Affairs, Mr. Sartaj Aziz.
2. The EAM and the Adviser condemned terrorism and resolved to cooperate to eliminate it. They noted the successful talks on terrorism and security related issues in Bangkok by the two NSAs and decided that the NSAs will continue to address all issues connected to terrorism. The Indian side was assured of the steps being taken to expedite the early conclusion of the Mumbai trial.
3. Both sides, accordingly, agreed to a Comprehensive Bilateral Dialogue and directed the Foreign Secretaries to work out the modalities and schedule of the meetings under the Dialogue including Peace and Security, CBMs, Jammu & Kashmir, Siachen, Sir Creek, Wullar Barrage/Tulbul Navigation Project, Economic and Commercial Cooperation, Counter-Terrorism, Narcotics Control, Humanitarian Issues, People to People exchanges and religious tourism.
Islamabad
December 09, 2015
MEA Press Release

And so the BJP led Government of Prime Minister Modi has gone a complete circle from only contact for regional SAARC multilateral purpose with the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, to Ufa formulation of pre announced NSA level talks for discussing Terrorism in New Delhi, to secret unannounced NSA plus Foreign Secretary level talks in Bangkok to discuss all matters besides Terrorism, to full composite dialogue with nothing concrete to show.

I am gravely disappointed with the BJP. I now look forward to the opposition excoriating the PM Modi led BJP Government in Parliament.

Well, as has been the the case for sometime now, the Gods of Tactical Brilliance will intervene and shower the Pukes with blessings and then everything will be fine. It is a matter of when and not if.

-M

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 10 Dec 2015 16:53

Brookings Ghani is bigger Vidkun Quisling than MMS can ever be. Only Gujral comes close to him. and there is not much the NDF or Panjshiris can do about it.

He is starting talks with Pakis inspite of a blatant attack on Afghan soil even as he is in Islamabad.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Dec 2015 16:59

One more Pakistani professing his Indian identity entitlement - Dawn

When I first came to America, many people asked me where I was from, and to avoid a discussion on the ongoing disputes in Pakistan, I used to say that my parents were from Indian Punjab.

My maternal family has roots in Amritsar and paternal family hails from Jalandhar. And in this sense, I have a legitimate Indian identity.

When India sent its first mission to Mars, I was thinking that my grandfather, who graduated from the prestigious IIT Roorkee in 1925 as an associate civil engineer would have been very proud.

. . .growing menace of religious and political intolerance on both sides of the border is a dismal situation

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 10 Dec 2015 17:03

The guy has written before on same lines. I have a feeling his wife is a victim of love Jehad....

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Dec 2015 17:52

After the BJP dominated Government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi foolishly agreeing to the resumption of comprehensive dialogue with the Islamic Republic of Pakistan I am flummoxed as to why BJP politician and BCCI functionary Anurag Thankur needs to make yet another u-turn and say no bilateral cricket with the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

.

In an August 22, 2015 tweet Anurag Thakur had said “Dawood in Karachi. NSA wants to meet separatists here. Are you really serious about peace and you expect we'll play cricket with you?”.

He flip flopped on December 3, 2015 by saying to Indian Express “We play Pakistan in the World Cup. We played them in the 2015 World Cup, we’ll play them next year in the Asia Cup. Then we’ll again play them in the month of March in World T20. So when you play them in a multinational tournament in world events, then what stops you from playing them in a bilateral series. So that’s the question we have to answer”.

Now he has flip flopped again saying (To NDTV) ““We cannot play cricket with Pakistan when people are dying on the border,”

The only explanation I can think of is that the flip flop’s and twist and turn’s regards dialogue with the Islamic Republic of Pakistan by the BJP dominated Government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi has thrown his fellow BJP party man Anurag Thakur out of phase

:

Anurag Thakur makes U-turn: Can’t play with Pakistan, people are dying on border

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 10 Dec 2015 17:57

^^It's not a flip flop. Read it again. He just answered the question now.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 10 Dec 2015 20:31

rsangram wrote:
Here is an example of Indian grand strategy. Bonhomie, smile, subservience.......

The Afghans on the other hand were frowning upon the fact that their president Ghani flashed a faint smile, when accorded a welcome by Pakistanis fit for the Chinese President or Saudi King in Pakistan.

So much for our Chankiyan grand strategy......acting subservient and smiling brightly at killers, murderers and genocidal maniacs, of whom, Hindus are by far the worst sufferers.....

You seriously don't believe this, do you?

What do you expect India to do? India does not have the overwhelming military/economic strength like US to do what you want India to do. On the pragmatic side, I would have liked India to isolate TSP as Minhaz Merchant and others have recommended. But even on this count, lets not mistake the overwhelming pressure being brought on Indian govt by the very same US to make piss with TSP, the leverage US has on the kind of economic investments that India wants. And not to mention India's own "secular" and "intolerance" politics. Thus, there is no way, diplomatic mumbo jumbo aside, India can ignore US's "advice" and other realities to resume p!ss with TSP. And thats where we are. You have to give credit to ModuiJi-led BJP for what is obviously a climb down from their earlier positions, but at the same time, keep India's core terror concerns in mind. This war of attrition is going to continue, you will see many more such images of "subservience" (and you ain't seen nothing yet, just wait until pee pee contacts pick up), and jingoes like you and me may not like it, but thats the reality. If at least our people are not getting killed and we preserve some semblance of our core interests (minimal compromise on J&K for example), I am happy.

I am not in the chair of ModiJi who has to make tough decisions, but he is doing the best he can given India's constraints and limitations.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 10 Dec 2015 20:38

Imran Khan to visit India from Friday

ISLAMABAD (Staff Report) – Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf chairman Imran Khan will visit India from Friday on a two-day trip, said a statement on Thursday.
During the visit PTI chief will a conference on Indo-Pak relations in New Delhi on December 11.
The conference is being arranged by an Indian newspaper ‘India Today’ where Imran Khan will appear as leading speaker.
He will return to Pakistan on December 12.

Is Shiv Sena preparing a "reception" for him ?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 10 Dec 2015 20:43

http://www.stripes.com/news/afghan-inte ... t-1.383145

Afghan intelligence chief steps down after criticizing president

The chief of Afghanistan’s intelligence service, Rahmatullah Nabil, announced his resignation on Thursday after pointedly criticizing Pakistan and political interference by Afghan President Ashraf Ghani.

Ghani repeatedly asked his top spy to resign, Nabil said in a statement in which he announced that he would no longer serve as head of the National Directorate of Security.

Afghanistan’s top spy had clashed with Ghani in the past over the president’s attempts to forge closer ties with Pakistan. He reportedly refused to sign a memorandum of understanding with Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, which is suspected by many Afghans of supporting Taliban and other insurgents.

Under Nabil, the NDS was reported to have run operations into Pakistan, targeting Taliban leaders and cultivating contacts among militants opposed to the government in Islamabad.

Ghani is turning out to be a Gujral. Might take Afghan intelligence many years to rebuild their network.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 10 Dec 2015 20:48

Bankrupting The MQM Is Part Of Pak Fauj Strategy
Rangers Send Rs50 Crore Defamation Notice To MQM’s Waseem Akhtar

KARACHI (Staff Report) – Pakistan Rangers Thursday sent a Rs50 crore legal defamation notice to senior Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) leader Waseem Akhtar.

The Sindh High Court has summoned Akhtar on January 21 on the request of Rangers’ legal counsel.
According to statement the MQM leader had alleged Sindh Rangers for ‘snatching’ more than 18,000 hides of sacrificial animals in a talk show on September 29 this year. The baseless and false accusation of Waseem Akhtar has caused an irreversible damage to the state institution, Rangers notice said.
The SHC has ordered Waseem Akhtar to appear before the court for presenting counter arguments on the next hearing.

Balochis killed left and right and thrown from helis, Pakhtuns chased away from their province in the name of fighting terrorism, head of Sindhi Party in self imposed exile. And now, MQM and its leader being "punished" on flimsy grounds. No wonder, the Bengalis said enough is enough and decided to part ways !

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 10 Dec 2015 20:52

Kim babu from North Korea is claiming they have a Hydrogen Bomb. They might test it soon...

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 10 Dec 2015 20:54

Falijee wrote:Imran Khan to visit India from Friday
ISLAMABAD (Staff Report) – Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf chairman Imran Khan will visit India from Friday on a two-day trip, said a statement on Thursday.
During the visit PTI chief will a conference on Indo-Pak relations in New Delhi on December 11.
The conference is being arranged by an Indian newspaper ‘India Today’ where Imran Khan will appear as leading speaker.
He will return to Pakistan on December 12.
Is Shiv Sena preparing a "reception" for him ?

RsangamJi is going to throw up fits watching the reception and swooning he will get from the Delhi elites. And he is also single, so competition for him from the Delhi socialites will be intense.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 10 Dec 2015 20:56

After Hamid Mir, It Is Now Geo's Turn To Get Fxxkxd By Unknown Hackers

Breaking: After Hamid Mir, Multiple Geo Twitter Accounts Get Hacked

Adding insult to injury, three further accounts related to Geo TV have been hacked by the very same hacker, who is now going by the name of ‘MickyLeakz’. Twitter accounts for Geo News English, Geo News Urdu and Rana Jawad (Director for News for Geo), were hacked a short while ago.

Deep State Hand cannot be ruled out ! Maybe, some sort of message is being conveyed to GEO management by the powers to be!

We are sure internal investigations are already underway and it maybe it’s worthwhile to consider whether this is an inside job. Putting a keylogger on a computer is the easiest thing in the world and it makes more sense than an entire network being compromised. It could very well be disgruntled employees wanting to exact revenge for perceived injustice. You also can’t discount the possibility whether this is just an orchestrated drama to get more publicity.
Regardless, if nothing else, this hacking spree will force news organizations to take the security of their networks and their social media channels much more seriously.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 10 Dec 2015 21:18

CRamS wrote: You seriously don't believe this, do you?

What do you expect India to do? India does not have the overwhelming military/economic strength like US to do what you want India to do. On the pragmatic side, I would have liked India to isolate TSP as Minhaz Merchant and others have recommended. But even on this count, lets not mistake the overwhelming pressure being brought on Indian govt by the very same US to make piss with TSP, the leverage US has on the kind of economic investments that India wants. And not to mention India's own "secular" and "intolerance" politics. Thus, there is no way, diplomatic mumbo jumbo aside, India can ignore US's "advice" and other realities to resume p!ss with TSP. And thats where we are. You have to give credit to ModuiJi-led BJP for what is obviously a climb down from their earlier positions, but at the same time, keep India's core terror concerns in mind. This war of attrition is going to continue, you will see many more such images of "subservience" (and you ain't seen nothing yet, just wait until pee pee contacts pick up), and jingoes like you and me may not like it, but thats the reality. If at least our people are not getting killed and we preserve some semblance of our core interests (minimal compromise on J&K for example), I am happy.

I am not in the chair of ModiJi who has to make tough decisions, but he is doing the best he can given India's constraints and limitations.

Can you present some evidence of the "overwhelming pressure" you are claiming?

I don't see any 7th fleet parked in the Indian coastal water and even on that occasion we had shown them the middle finger, despite the fact that we were a lot weaker then without nukes or the missiles we now posses.

Now as far as investments are concerned, on balance US is the net beneficiary not India.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 10 Dec 2015 21:28

...

It is the gullibility of the reader when reading such news that is surprising. Paki media lied to take the heat off Pakis and get the Indians under the lens. Paki doing '= =' all over again.

Who fell for it? Indians reading that link on BRF. And Indians helped get the focus on Indians by giving credence to Paki news report. Sorry if it sounds like rant/anguish but this story of believing stupid media reports from mil threads to strategy threads to tech & econ threads to GDF - its all pervasive. Either it is an attempt by posters to start flame wars or just being plane lazy to do basic due diligence before posting such links or commenting on them.

I refuse to agree that this is happens because of naive beliefs on media honesty specially if its Paki.

I am not leaving myself out of this 'trust the liar' sydrome. Everyone needs to be careful if the discussions here have to be serious.

People go by instinct and habit, which is to believe media, as they are the professionals. Overriding of instinct is done by applying the prefrontal cortex, a process that takes up time and energy, to overcome inertia.

My theory-of-the-day is that Indians, as the inheritors of an ancient and largely successful and stable civilization, are more prone to trust their ingrained instincts, which include mostly beneficial civilizational habits that made their way into the reptilian brain (home of instincts and habits) over the centuries.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 10 Dec 2015 21:54

So much nonsense is spouted by armchair generals.. Do you guys really think you have all the information, qualifications, experience and perspective available to second guess what the policy makers/politicians are doing? The only thing that is available to you is the track record of these people over decades in public eye. Are you claiming that somehow people like Modi, Swaraj, Shah and DOVAL have suddenly developed some warm fuzzy feeling for the Paks?

This is the reason why we hold elections.. So we can entrust these decisions to people whom we are confident in. The last govt's track record gave many people including me absolutely no confidence that they even had the nations best interest in their hearts. To me, this govt. has the requisite ideological conviction and also the 'flexibility' to make the right strategic/tactical decisions. Not to say that they wont ever be wrong.. but this continuous second guessing needs to end.

Some here would denounce Shivaji for accepting the invitation of ~~Shaista~~ Afzal Khan for a 'peace treaty'.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 10 Dec 2015 22:19

sudeepj wrote: Some here would denounce Shivaji for accepting the invitation of Shaista Khan for a 'peace treaty'.

Huh? Peace treaty? Shivaji tried to assassinate him, personally. Unfortunately, he escaped after losing a few fingers and his son.

Maybe you meant Afzal Khan. And we know what happened there too. Keep in mind that Shivaji was supposed to be the underdog throughout his time considering that the Mughals had much bigger armies and vast resources. Can't really compare that to the India-Pak situation. There is absolutely no compelling reason for us to initiate talks with them, since that has yielded us nothing the umpteen times we tried. It is time we just accept that they are our implacable enemies and are going to remain so. Shivaji understood the Mughals far far better than any Indian govt. has ever understood Pakistan.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 10 Dec 2015 22:21

Dipanker wrote:
Can you present some evidence of the "overwhelming pressure" you are claiming?

I don't see any 7th fleet parked in the Indian coastal water and even on that occasion we had shown them the middle finger, despite the fact that we were a lot weaker then without nukes or the missiles we now posses.

Now as far as investments are concerned, on balance US is the net beneficiary not India.

No I don't have documentary mathematical QED type "proof". I am only going what I am observing, statements of various India/US experts, etc, and hard reality. And many a Indians' own obsession with "international community" opinion of India. Furthermore, US has always played a huge role in India TSP affairs, for e.g., forcing TSP to climb-down in Kargil. I might also remind you that people insulted me here for daring to say that Indian govt has a role in kirket resumption, asked me for "proof", someone even said laughable tripe that govt of India has any control over a "private entity" like BCCI, lots of pedantic nonsense on "policy Vs law" etc, and here we are, the only thing that stands between an India TSP kirket series is a Yes from Indian govt.

Thus, one can use academic arguments to say that US had no role in India's climb-down, but I beg to differ. Also, unlike others who are not happy with this climb down, I am of the opinion that its not such a bad thing. If US is working behind the scenes to make TSP behave, while it works with India to throw a few dog bones to TSP, with the end result being none our of people being killed by TSP, and hopefully (I am not yet optimistic on this), TSP is no longer a constant irritant, and India can go about its development agenda, I am happy. Of course, making TSP pay for its crimes, "21st century super power" etc are all out of the window, but thats what it is.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Dec 2015 22:28

SSridhar wrote:One more Pakistani professing his Indian identity entitlement - Dawn
When I first came to America, many people asked me where I was from, and to avoid a discussion on the ongoing disputes in Pakistan, I used to say that my parents were from Indian Punjab.My maternal family has roots in Amritsar and paternal family hails from Jalandhar. And in this sense, I have a legitimate Indian identity. When India sent its first mission to Mars, I was thinking that my grandfather, who graduated from the prestigious IIT Roorkee in 1925 as an associate civil engineer would have been very proud.. . .growing menace of religious and political intolerance on both sides of the border is a dismal situation

And Hizzz favourite (non) Indians are Booby Jindal and Annush Kapoor.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 10 Dec 2015 23:03

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 125617.cms

"MUMBAI: A local court on Thursday granted pardon to David Coleman Headley, one of the main accused in the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks case, an accepted him as a prosecution witness.
The court agreed to Headley's plea to turn an approver in return for pardon while imposing certain conditions on him.
The sessions court has asked Headley to disclose all information that he had revealed earlier to the US court.
Headley had appeared before the sessions court here through a video link from an undisclosed location in the US."

The strategy appears to be, talk to some people, and hit some others.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 10 Dec 2015 23:06

CRamS wrote:
Dipanker wrote:
Can you present some evidence of the "overwhelming pressure" you are claiming?

I don't see any 7th fleet parked in the Indian coastal water and even on that occasion we had shown them the middle finger, despite the fact that we were a lot weaker then without nukes or the missiles we now posses.

Now as far as investments are concerned, on balance US is the net beneficiary not India.
No I don't have documentary mathematical QED type "proof". I am only going what I am observing, statements of various India/US experts, etc, and hard reality. And many a Indians' own obsession with "international community" opinion of India. Furthermore, US has always played a huge role in India TSP affairs, for e.g., forcing TSP to climb-down in Kargil. I might also remind you that people insulted me here for daring to say that Indian govt has a role in kirket resumption, asked me for "proof", someone even said laughable tripe that govt of India has any control over a "private entity" like BCCI, lots of pedantic nonsense on "policy Vs law" etc, and here we are, the only thing that stands between an India TSP kirket series is a Yes from Indian govt.

Thus, one can use academic arguments to say that US had no role in India's climb-down, but I beg to differ. Also, unlike others who are not happy with this climb down, I am of the opinion that its not such a bad thing. If US is working behind the scenes to make TSP behave, while it works with India to throw a few dog bones to TSP, with the end result being none our of people being killed by TSP, and hopefully (I am not yet optimistic on this), TSP is no longer a constant irritant, and India can go about its development agenda, I am happy. Of course, making TSP pay for its crimes, "21st century super power" etc are all out of the window, but thats what it is.

When you don't have evidence for your claim such as "overwhelming pressure" it is better to qualify them by expressions like IMO, IMVHO etc., because without evidence they are nothing more than your personal opinion and you are certainly entitled to them. People may or may not agree with them.

Personally I have not seen any evidence of any "overwhelming pressure" put on India by US in the current situation.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 10 Dec 2015 23:12

Lal Masjid Ceric Again Demands Sharia Law In Pakiland ;This Time Moves Supreme Court

ISLAMABAD:
The infamous cleric of Islamabad’s Lal Masjid, Maulana Abdul Aziz, on Thursday approached the Supreme Court regarding the imposition of Sharia Law across the country.
Aziz moved the constitutional petition through his counsel Tariq Asad under Article 184 (3) of the Constitution of Islamic Republic of Pakistan

“I demand a committee be formed to determine if the present British-era judicial system is in accordance with Quran and Sunnah,” Aziz is seen asking in the 25-minute video.

“I demand enforcement of Quran and Sunnah as it a constitutional obligation,” he said, and offered himself for an open trial if there is any case pending against him. “I want to put myself on trial but that should be in line with Islamic Sharia.”

Is he implementing Doval-ji's "defensive/offensive theory" to pre-empt any possible action against him for his "connection" to the California shooting, as has been alleged ?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 10 Dec 2015 23:16

So much nonsense is spouted by armchair generals.. Do you guys really think you have all the information, qualifications, experience and perspective available to second guess what the policy makers/politicians are doing? The only thing that is available to you is the track record of these people over decades in public eye. Are you claiming that somehow people like Modi, Swaraj, Shah and DOVAL have suddenly developed some warm fuzzy feeling for the Paks?

This is the reason why we hold elections.. So we can entrust these decisions to people whom we are confident in. The last govt's track record gave many people including me absolutely no confidence that they even had the nations best interest in their hearts. To me, this govt. has the requisite ideological conviction and also the 'flexibility' to make the right strategic/tactical decisions. Not to say that they wont ever be wrong.. but this continuous second guessing needs to end.

I am reporting this post for being sensible and not in keeping with the ambience of general postings here.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 10 Dec 2015 23:18

Dipanker wrote: Personally I have not seen any evidence of any "overwhelming pressure" put on India by US in the current situation.

What is your analysis on what led to this turn around from our side? Give me your opinion.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 10 Dec 2015 23:29

David Headley pardoned, accepted as approver in 26/11 case on conditions

The TADA court in Mumbai on Thursday pardoned David Headley after he offered to become approver in the 26/11 case on condition of getting exemption from punishment. The court agreed to Headley’s demand on condition that he discloses facts of 26/11 attack role of other participants in the conspiracy.
The next hearing in the case will take place on 8th Feb 2016.
After the special public prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam told the court that the prosecution was agreeable to Headley’s offer, the judge G A Sanap made Headley an approver, subject to certain conditions and granted him pardon.

After Judge Sanap read out the charges against him, Headley read out a written statement: “I have reviewed the charging documents filed against me in this court. It charges me with the same conduct for which I was charged in the United States. I have pleaded guilty in the past to the charges in the United States and I admitted I was a participant in the charges. I accepted responsibility for my role in those offences in my plea agreement. I also agreed to make myself available as a witness in this court. I appeared here ready to answer questions regarding these events if I receive a pardon from this court. That’s it. Thank you,” Headley said.
Is "Uncle" preparing grounds for his early release?
The judge then adjourned the court for half and hour.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 10 Dec 2015 23:42

Why is India talking to Pakistan?
Maybe because of incident counts like this:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 934563.ece
"As BSF, Pakistan Rangers talk, cross-border firing comes down from 589 to 3".

---

This is the International Border, not the LoC.

Maybe Modi sarkar sees some scope to extend this to the LoC as well?
Who knows?

One can argue that the incidents ought to have gone down to zero, that the LoC is different, etc., etc., all valid and arguable, but in the spirit of sudeepj, I say it is all nonsense spouted by armchair generals.

And I claim the above is as good a reason as "overwhelming US pressure" for the alleged climbdown by PM Modiji and sarkar; plus I have at least this one bit of evidence however infinitesimal it is; while the brigade claiming "overwhelming US pressure" has zero, nada, zilch, nil, shunya.

And I endorse sanjaykumar about sudeepj's posting "I am reporting this post for being sensible and not in keeping with the ambience of general postings here."

The Nervous Nellies & chicken-littles (the western name for dhoti-shiverers) are rendering this thread pretty useless. IMO, Pakistan is at an interesting stage, with green-on-green violence down quite a bit compared to last year, and all our analytic antennae should be working trying to figure out what's next.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2015 23:43

sudeepj, This DCH move will have many ramifications in India and then Pakistan and USA. Despite Indian pardon in advance he is still in US custody.
Also approver status has its own constraints.

member_29004 · Post by **member_29004** » 10 Dec 2015 23:49

Anujan wrote:http://www.stripes.com/news/afghan-inte ... t-1.383145

Afghan intelligence chief steps down after criticizing president

The chief of Afghanistan’s intelligence service, Rahmatullah Nabil, announced his resignation on Thursday after pointedly criticizing Pakistan and political interference by Afghan President Ashraf Ghani.

Ghani repeatedly asked his top spy to resign, Nabil said in a statement in which he announced that he would no longer serve as head of the National Directorate of Security.

Afghanistan’s top spy had clashed with Ghani in the past over the president’s attempts to forge closer ties with Pakistan. He reportedly refused to sign a memorandum of understanding with Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, which is suspected by many Afghans of supporting Taliban and other insurgents.

Under Nabil, the NDS was reported to have run operations into Pakistan, targeting Taliban leaders and cultivating contacts among militants opposed to the government in Islamabad.

Ghani is turning out to be a Gujral. Might take Afghan intelligence many years to rebuild their network.

Doval shou;d do the same

member_23692 · Post by **member_23692** » 10 Dec 2015 23:57

CRamS wrote:
rsangram wrote:
Here is an example of Indian grand strategy. Bonhomie, smile, subservience.......

The Afghans on the other hand were frowning upon the fact that their president Ghani flashed a faint smile, when accorded a welcome by Pakistanis fit for the Chinese President or Saudi King in Pakistan.

So much for our Chankiyan grand strategy......acting subservient and smiling brightly at killers, murderers and genocidal maniacs, of whom, Hindus are by far the worst sufferers.....
You seriously don't believe this, do you?

What do you expect India to do? India does not have the overwhelming military/economic strength like US to do what you want India to do. On the pragmatic side, I would have liked India to isolate TSP as Minhaz Merchant and others have recommended. But even on this count, lets not mistake the overwhelming pressure being brought on Indian govt by the very same US to make piss with TSP, the leverage US has on the kind of economic investments that India wants. And not to mention India's own "secular" and "intolerance" politics. Thus, there is no way, diplomatic mumbo jumbo aside, India can ignore US's "advice" and other realities to resume p!ss with TSP. And thats where we are. You have to give credit to ModuiJi-led BJP for what is obviously a climb down from their earlier positions, but at the same time, keep India's core terror concerns in mind. This war of attrition is going to continue, you will see many more such images of "subservience" (and you ain't seen nothing yet, just wait until pee pee contacts pick up), and jingoes like you and me may not like it, but thats the reality. If at least our people are not getting killed and we preserve some semblance of our core interests (minimal compromise on J&K for example), I am happy.

I am not in the chair of ModiJi who has to make tough decisions, but he is doing the best he can given India's constraints and limitations.

Not having a choice, because one (India) doesnt have the strength to take a harder line is not the same thing as a "grand strategy" or not the same thing as "Chanikyan", as so many of us are very quick to claim.

Not having a choice, because one doesnt have the strength is called "bending over and not even using lube".

Let us call a spade a spade, ie. "bending over" and not a heart, ie., "a grand strategy" or even a diamond, ie. "Chankyan".

Besides, I agree with Dipankar, that in my opinion, there is no US pressure, whatsoever, Zero, Zilch........nada.

US itself, is facing overwhelming public opinion to ostracize, exclude and shun the muslims. It has no stomach to put any kind of pressure on India to take any soft line on Paki. I do not believe there ever was overwhelming pressure on India from the US to take a soft line on Paki, since the 7th fleet incident in 1971 and US pressure has just become a customary excuse that Indian netas and babus and the anti-national media uses to justify India's consistent "bending over".

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Dec 2015 00:01

rsangram, leave aside US pressure (thats my opinion), but what compelled India to "bend over" as you put it? I asked DipankarJi the same thing.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 11 Dec 2015 00:04

Granting pardon and making DCH an approver is not such a bad idea. He is a massa citizen. Extraditing him is probably impossible. He is already in jail so convicting him is meaningless.

On the other hand, he is capable of revealing the full extent of terrorist conspiracy and who was involved. That should be the condition for approver status.

Though it is generally known that Hafiz Saeed and Lakhvi were involved, case against them will be strengthened with a signed statement. Also will be interesting to know who were involved if any on this side of the border.

Ujjwal Nikam is no WKK candle kisser. Based on Kasabs case, he is very thorough and methodical.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 11 Dec 2015 00:04

I'm yet to see anyone claim govts actions/strategies as "chanakian" either on this or the political dhagaa.

I fail to understand why posters find the need to repeatedly invoke "chanakya" at every instance.

Kya bigada hai chanakya ne aapka hain ?!