Indian Navy News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 05 Dec 2015 01:11

parikh: Excuse my point by point quote below but you have said quite a lot in a single post.

parikh wrote:Was going through the IN navy ships page in BR , the number of active modern combat worthy ships is

- 3 Destroyers (INS Kolkatta class)
- 3 Frigates ( Project 17) + 6 Russi Talwar class Frigates = 9 Frigates
- 2 Kamortas
- 1 Aircraft Carries - 1 Vik

You should add:

03 Delhi Class
05 Rajput Class
03 Brahmaputra Class
04 Khukri Class
04 Kora Class
04 Abhay Class
12 Veer Class

I would consider only the G-Class, and maybe the Abhays as old. Khukris are rather simple ships, and armed with only styx, but they can still pose a problem for the likes of a PNS Alamgir which does not have any SAM system at all!

i.e 12 modern combat ships minus the kamorta + Vik , out of which at least 6 will be allocated to Vik's convoy . So only 6 left for action.

When the Vikrant joins the fleet , those will go to its convoy , so effectively none free for offensive operations.

By joining the aircraft carrier task force, the ships are not out of action. The carrier and her escorts are very much an offensive formation. Your seem to believe that IN will whisk away the carriers into some far corner of the ocean away from the theatre! Carriers are not sitting ducks - they are high value assets but these ships are combat ships and will win the fight for us.

Rest (Delhi class destroyers , Ranjit , Brahmaputra etc etc) are all pretty much junk and will be no match in a modern battlefield. And doubt Godavari + Missile boats are seaworthy any more...

Delhi Class destroyers are going to be operational for at least 10-15 years, and are more advanced than 80% of the warships out there. As of today, these ships are the most 'complete' and all round package in the whole Indian Navy - even ahead of Kolkata till the LRSAM and towed sonars are purchased!

Rajputs. Its true that this lot is old, and maybe has another 5 years to in it. But take a loot at the armament. Save for the Styx and SAM-3s, this stuff is good and badass!

Anti-surface:
INS Rajput
4 × Brahmos supersonic missiles and 2 x SS-N-2D Styx AShM missiles

INS Rana, INS Ranjit
4 × SS-N-2D Styx AShM missiles

INS Ranvir, INS Ranvijay
8 × Brahmos in aft VLS and 4 x SS-N-2D Styx AShM missiles

Air-defence:
2 × S-125M (NATO: SA-N-1) SAM launchers
1 × S-125M (NATO: SA-N-1) SAM launcher in Ranvir and Ranvijay
2 × Barak SAM 8 cell launchers in Ranvir and Ranvijay

Guns:
1 × 76.2 mm main gun,
4 × 30 mm AK-230 CIWS in Rajput and Rana
4 × 30 mm AK-630M CIWS in Ranjit
2 × 30 mm AK-630M CIWS in Ranvir, Ranvijay

Anti-submarine:
1 × 533 mm PTA 533 quintuple torpedo tube launcher,
2 × RBU-6000 anti-submarine mortars,

Shivaliks dont even have torpedo tubes in comparison!

We need 8 destroyers + 16 Frigates just to replace the current old ships. The Visakhapatnam's and P17A's are rolling out at snail's pace.

In the future we might be involved in a pissing contest with the Pakis , in M.E and with the Chinese all at once.

Blockading the Malacca and Sunda straits will need numbers.

We do need more ships. But at the moment there are long orders in place for both frigates and destroyers. We need to order more Project 28 Corvettes first.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 05 Dec 2015 01:25

some eye candy folks

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 05 Dec 2015 02:34

^^ That's some serious eye candy, thanks for sharing. Do you have a source for it, I would like to share on SM, if that's all right.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 05 Dec 2015 03:30

It is all in public domain. Go ahead distribute it

srai · Post by **srai** » 05 Dec 2015 05:52

Aditya G wrote:...
Shivaliks dont even have torpedo tubes in comparison!
..,.

Are you sure about that? AFAIR, there were torpedo tubes located midship similar to Krivak and P-28 parallel layout in twin/triple launchers.

Check out just above the letters F48.

John · Post by **John** » 05 Dec 2015 06:19

Torpedo are being fitted in now for Shivalik class, they werent when they were constructed.

member_28110 · Post by **member_28110** » 05 Dec 2015 06:37

Helicopter underwater escape training

https://youtu.be/tIYXonKyKbI

- Water survival training facility located at INS Garuda.
- Previously, Air crews were sent to USA for this training.
- The cabin is immersed upside down into water to simulate realistic scenario since all heavy parts(engine, gearbox etc) are located on top.

Other training facilities present:

- parachute drop training for Mig-29,Sea Harrier, Il-38 crews etc
- Damage control simulator for ships
-- 3 Decks, weighing 80 tons
-- Able to simulate 15 degree roll

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 05 Dec 2015 06:42

you cannot go with ships purely by armament and age

Well maintained Rajputs with able skippers have consistently trounced others

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 05 Dec 2015 12:13

Plus in todays world if the basic ship remains structurally robust, what prevents us from adding more electronics? A state of the art towed array sonar is $5Mn.. peanuts compared to building a new ship..I suspect the D-class will remain viable for decades to come given that scenario..

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Dec 2015 12:17

Frankly it's amazing as to the longevity of Soviet/Russian warships and subs.Look at both Rajputs/Kashins and Talwars/Krivaks.A v.good hull with considerable redesign topsides and new armament and they remain relevant and very lethal for decades .Same with the Kilo 636.3 subs. The Gorky/Vik-A looks splendid and the sight of 3 Sea Harriers being refueled by am IL-78 indicates the extent to which the IN is maximizing all its assets.

There is a news item about another 3 Scorpenes being asked for. This will make a total of 9,same as the no. of Kilos. The big Q is at what cost and what AIP system aboard. There were earlier reports about France offering Scorpenes to us at lesser cost than built in India ones,and NOT willing to provide India with their latest sub-tech which will be given to Oz!

In the latter report,one wonders why the In is pursuing more Scorpenes which will be inferior to any French subs that OZ may acquire if the French bid is successful. It would be worth examining the tech that new German U-boats possess,offered to us,compared with the current Scorpenes yet to be commissioned.

The foll is a nice piece but forgets the naval prowess of the Tamil kingdoms.

Dec 4 2015 11:31AM
Abhijit Bhattacharyya

Smooth sailing for naval power
Transformation of the Indian Navy from virtually “nothing to write on,” into one of the top five seafaring forces of the world deserves credit.

INS Kalvari, the Indian Navy's Scorpene submarine at the Mazagon Docks, Mumbai. It will be commissioned by September, ‘16. Five more submarines are on the way. Reuters.
Even at the grim possibility of being criticised, one dare suggest that never before in the history of South Asia, has India had such a powerful and indigenous navy as it has today. The credit for this does go entirely to a few naval-minded administrators and fewer sea-power enthusiasts and protagonists (both military and civil) of independent India. They realised the failure and folly of past negligence and the future centrality of seapower of the state. Understandably, the conspicuous lack of a robust and proactive naval tradition of India took long to change. The reason for this was the history of continuous defensive land wars being fought by the Indians since time memorial to fend off aggressive hordes of foreign invaders through land.

It may be recalled that virtually the whole of Ramayana, except till the arrival of Hanuman on the scene, is the story of land warfare. Water force has never been the forte of the Indians, notwithstanding the existence of innumerable waterbodies and hundreds of rivers. The epic war of Mahabharata too had no semblance of any sea force. The story virtually revolves round the heartland surrounding modern Delhi. In a way, the mother of all battles could be considered to be the precursor and predecessor of the battles of Panipat-syndrome of Indian history. It signified the importance of land warfare of South Asian heritage in the psyche of the indigenous ruling class of India.

One would like to believe the name Panipat, translated into English, could mean Pani (water) and Pat (Path?) thereby denoting the existence of “the way/path the water flows” or “the path/way lying near water”? Is not it natural that one would, post-bloodshed, like to have perennial source of water bodies in the vicinity to clean, clear and wash the blood and dead bodies by water? Even when the "victorious Pandavas" are retreating (retiring?) post-war reign, they traverse the high hills of Himalayas (the eternal source of water of South Asia), but do not explore the ocean or go anywhere near waterbodies. The magnetic attraction of land perhaps is a key to eternal human psyche evolved over centuries. As the history of the world usually is the history of war, to capture land and enjoy the fruits thereof, it is a natural propensity of humans to capture, hold and settle therein. Nevertheless the one exceptional feature of the last 500 years of world history is that the capture or conquest of land traditionally (since the 15th century) has been the prerogative of the western nations. This despite unprecedented achievements and conquests of some great land warriors from, the heartland of Euro-Asian plains.
Except Japan, from the late 19th century, and Turkey to a limited extent, command, control and campaign missions in the oceans usually fell under the sole domain of the UK, Spain, Portugal, France, Netherlands, Germany and Italy and at a later stage, post-World War 1, that of the USA. Even the Russians were nowhere near their west European competitors, except from the beginning of World War II.

The Mughals, despite having achieved the status of South Asia’s “super land power. At the height of its power, status and glory, they spanned modern-day Kabul in the north-west to the Cox's Bazaar in south-east, and Kashmir in north to river Kaveri in the south. They virtually had no navy to counter the advent of the Europeans, who landed in their vessels in the vast, open and unguarded coastline of India. Few rulers of India had an idea of the importance of a navy and fewer still had any semblance of ocean experience. Little wonder that the Indians failed whenever and wherever they faced the Europeans in the sea. Thus Vasco da Gama landed at Calicut without any hassle, as reportedly, he was extended more hospitality, than hostility, and “due” courtesy. And in reality, if there took place any naval skirmish on the Indian coastline, inevitably it (mostly) took place between rival and competing Europeans and rarely with Indians as various wars between European empires, more often than not, spilled over to the South Asian terrain and territorial waters.

On November 29 and 30, 1612, the nascent British East India Company fleet defeated the Portuguese fleet near Surat. On May 2, 1654, came the next naval fight when the Dutch boats defeated the Portuguese flotilla off the coast of Colombo. The Portuguese, arguably one of the most ferocious and skilled of early European sea warriors, in April 1713, defeated disparate elements of Indian force off Cheul and again near Karwar in 1718. In reality, except the rare victory of Raja of Travancore over a Dutch naval force at Colachel on August 10, 1741, the Indians managed to continue with their conspicuous lack of naval tradition.

The Indian Navy is one of the top five sea-going forces of the world, with an impressive line of in-house production and commissioning of boats. India, however, needs to ensure that its enterprise does not get sabotaged by those to whom it may be the loss of a lucrative business deal. After all, defence is business, economics, employment as well as fat profit.
The author is a Supreme Court advocate and graduate of National Defence College, New Delhi.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 05 Dec 2015 14:28

Indian Navy 2015 official film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhRR20Kx9cA

MARCOS footage looks brand new.... though some of the footage has been reused from the IFR film. Shows helidrop from possibly a An-32 into the sea.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 05 Dec 2015 18:24

NairBrigade wrote:Helicopter underwater escape training

https://youtu.be/tIYXonKyKbI

Excellent video!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 05 Dec 2015 22:31

pragnya wrote:
An operation under the high profile naval exercise MALABAR, between the navies of India, USA and Japan, featured a simulated battle to hunt and destroy each other's submarines. Locked in this match were two prowlers, the INS Sindhudhvaj (S56), a Soviet-designed EKM class of conventional submarine and the USS City of Corpus Christi (SSN705), a nuclear-powered attack submarine which functions like a fighter plane - scramble and destroy enemy submarines and ships. The crew of both the vessels were asked to hunt the other down in a general area of the Bay of Bengal, based on 'available int'. They, subsequently dived.

Hours later, as they still searched the Americans were informed that the game was over already.

Unknown, they had been marked, tailed and suitably 'annihilated' by the 533mm torpedos 'fired' by their Indian counterparts from on board the INS Sindhudhvaj. What came as a clincher to the Indian side was the tool which detected the USS Corpus Christi - the 'made in India' Ushus SONAR (Sound Navigation and Ranging) which was recently installed. "The way it happens is that the Sindhudhvaj recorded the Hydrophonic Effect (HE) - simply put, underwater noise - of the nuclear powered submarine and managed to positively identify it before locking on to it. Being an exercise what did not happen was the firing," explained a naval officer. The HE thus captured can easily slide into the elaborate database that the any navy maintains for classifying and identifying foreign submarines. A US embassy spokesperson said, "We have no information on the results to share."
maxtraul, you just gave away the ammunition (inspite of USHUS being the factor!!) to Philip sir to 'import' a few Kilos. i won't mind ofc.

USHUS is considered reliable as well. Good going NPOL. Some more reports about USHUS.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/for-the- ... an-1231729

What the Indian commander does have on his side is deep knowledge of the conditions of the Bay of Bengal. The Sindhudhwaj, based in Visakhapatnam, regularly operates in these waters and her commanding officer would look to take advantage of the salinity, variable temperatures and current patterns of these waters which often make submarine detection extremely challenging.

He also has a superb Indian designed and manufactured sonar system at his disposal recently fitted on his upgraded submarine. In June this year, the crew of the Sindhudhwaj, using their USHUS sonar, had with great accuracy, locked on to signals from the emergency locator beacon of a Coast Guard Dornier that had crashed. Search aircraft and other ships had picked up sporadic pings but were unable to pinpoint the specific crash site in the Bay of Bengal.

And also.
http://www.wikinewsindia.com/english-ne ... b-surface/

However, inside the double-hull stealth submarine, its 53-member crew sported a confident look. “She is as good as any new, trust me,” assured a young officer. The Sindhukirti was commissioned into the Indian Navy on January 4, 1990. Today, she boasts of capabilities she’s never had. Where she could earlier fire only underwater torpedos with a range of under 20km, today she can fire about 18 missiles which can travel up to 300km to neutralise targets at sea and on shore. An old Soviet-designed sonar has given way to an indigenous one, the Ushus whose reliability the crew swears by. From analog readings in her control room, the crew gleans data off digital sets. Earlier, after having dived in, the submarine had to come to periscope depth (9m below the surface) to pick up direction or messages from the command centres ashore. This would put them in a vulnerable state. Now, all she has to do is to let out the 600m long chord of the Towed Wired Antenna (TWA) and receive communication as she prowls the depths of her choice.

Now for the Towed Array Sonar. It has taken time but when it comes it will be a performer.

deWalker · Post by **deWalker** » 06 Dec 2015 05:20

Warm regards to the Indian Navy, on this 44th anniversary of converting Karachi to "City of Lights"!

YouTube video of Operation Trident here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CwiEsaZZFY

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Dec 2015 11:00

Navy’s cadet training plans go for a toss - S.Anandan, The Hindu

Bankruptcy, it is learnt, has forced the ABG Shipyard to stall the construction of two purpose-built cadet training vessels for the Navy, dealing a severe blow to the force’s training arrangements.

“The cash-strapped yard has halted the construction of the vessels for three months now. Slated for delivery in the last quarter of 2016 as per a revised schedule, they are now unlikely to be ready for induction around that time,” said a senior Navy officer.

The Navy was hoping to take delivery of the two ships as replacements for the already-decommissioned INS Krishna and the antiquated INS Tir — both forming part of the Navy’s Kochi-based First Training Squadron. Left with no other option, Tir has now been given a fresh lease of life.

Along with that, landing ship Shardul and patrol vessel Sujata have also been customised to meet the ‘afloat’ training requirements in the interim.

Besides these, the squadron also comprises sail training ships INS Tarangini and Sudarshini and Coast Guard ship Varuna. The ABG Shipyard was contracted for the Rs. 970-crore project as far back as June, 2011, but delays in freezing detailed design held up the project for some time when insolvency forced the yard to go for corporate debt restructuring (CDR).

Ambitious project

“It was an ambitious defence project. Each ship, with a length of 110 metres, was to displace 4,000 tonnes and cruise at 20 knots. The delivery of the first vessel was to take place in 42 months and the second, six months later. However, even after a private bank pumped in some money as part of CDR, construction could not be put back on track and the project has now fallen in limbo much to the Navy’s dismay,” said an official.

When contacted by The Hindu , Syed Abdi, managing director of ABG Shipyard, declined to officially comment on the development.

Sources, in the meantime, said design issues had been resolved and efforts were under way to resume construction. But the Navy is keeping its fingers crossed.

The purpose-built vessels were meant to train naval midshipmen in basic seamanship and disaster-relief operations.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Dec 2015 15:44

Similar situation with Bharati Shipyard and Pipavav as well. Aside from the immediate impact to Navy's numbers, these troubles have hit plans to get private industry in Naval construction.

ABG Shipyard: 2 CTS and 1 Battle Practice Target Ship pending.
Pipavav: 5 NOPV pending
Bharati Shipyard: 6 orders
Alcock Ashdown: 3 Makar class pending

4 (5?) Makar class under construction:

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 07 Dec 2015 02:27

http://www.oneindia.com/india/pm-modi-a ... 46941.html

...

Among the shore establishments, INS Tunir (Commodore PK Singh, CO) was declared the winner for in-house modification to legacy surface to surface missiles (originally designed for sub-sonic flight) to fly at supersonic speed.

...

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Dec 2015 10:14

Great titbit AG! That may explain why we have legacy SSMs aboard many of the smaller missile craft/corvettes.

Russia, India to Hold Naval Drills in Bay of Bengal December 7-12
© Sputnik/ Ildus Gilyazutdinov
Military & Intelligence
Russia and India will hold the eighth annual joint Indra Navy-15 drills in the Bay of Bengal next week, the Indian Navy said in an official statement Friday.

NEW DELHI (Sputnik) – The December 7-9 command staff phase of the drills is scheduled to be held in the city of Visakhpatnam, followed by an active phase on December 10-12 along its coast.

The Indian Navy will delegate its Sahyadri stealth guided missile frigate, the Ranvir guided missile destroyer, the Shakti replenishment oiler, the Sindhuvir attack submarine and patrol aircraft for the task.

India: First EVER indigenously built INS Vikrant aircraft carrier undocks successfully

The Russian Navy’s Pacific Fleet will send a Varyag Slava-class cruiser, a Sovremenny-class Bystry destroyer, the Boris Chilikin-class Boris Butoma fleet oiler and the Alatau salvage tug to to take part in the drills.

Russia and India have maintained a close partnership in military and technical cooperation for decades. The two countries have been conducting joint military drills annually since 2003.

During the drills, the two countries’ sailors will practice tactical maneuvers, test their defense capabilities in unsafe conditions, conduct search operations and helicopter exchanges.

The exercises are scheduled to conclude with a closing ceremony on board the Sahyadri frigate.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/2015120 ... z3tbxHFkSV

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Dec 2015 20:57

Bad news fir the IN if this report is true. No second Akula coming. The sub should'bve been given top priority instead of the 50 KA-226s which in any case do not have any ASW capability.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/14783/ ... mcDY8uhdjo

India Likely To Sign $15 Billion Defence Deals With Russia

Source : Our Bureau ~ Dated : Monday, December 7, 2015

Moscow and New Delhi are likely to sign defense agreements worth around $15 billion that include S-400 missile defense system, Mi-175V attack helicopters, Kamov multirole choppers during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Moscow.

Modi is likely to visit Moscow probably on December 24-25. Defense deals include the purchase of 48 Mi-17V5 attack helicopters for the IAF and 50 Kamov multirole choppers for the Indian Navy. Talks to lease one more nuclear submarine from Russia seems to have hit the road block. “We are no more considering to lease the nuclear submarine,” said a top level Indian naval official.

Russia had offered Kashalot K-322 nuclear power submarine of project 971 Shchuka to India and the talks were going on for some months. Indian Navy is already operating a Nerpa class Russian nuclear-powered submarine ‘INS Chakra,’ which it leased from Moscow in 2012 for ten years. The Indian Navy operated a Russian nuclear submarine for ten years back in the early 1980s.

The Russians have offered to upgrade the submarine based on Indian requirements and promised to handover the charge of the vessel in 2018 after the repair, upgrade and testing work and the Indian crew’s training are completed. The official would not say why the talks for leasing submarine are not fructifying. However, deal for S-400 missile system said to be firmly on track.

The modalities, including the price of deal and number of systems to be acquired, were agreed upon during the meeting of India-Russia Inter Governmental Commission on Military-Technical-Cooperation (IRIGC-MTC) which was co-chaired by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoigu in the first week of last month.

There is no mention of the FGFA at all. Perhaps the FGFA and second Akula were linked.It may have been the case when the first Akula was leased.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 08 Dec 2015 21:22

Perhaps given the quiet no-news state (no news is good news) on the Arihant, we don't need another nuke sub for the moment?

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 08 Dec 2015 22:55

If IAF had wanted to invest in final Su30 design only, where would Su30mkI be.

titash · Post by **titash** » 08 Dec 2015 23:07

Aditya G wrote:http://www.oneindia.com/india/pm-modi-a ... 46941.html

...

Among the shore establishments, INS Tunir (Commodore PK Singh, CO) was declared the winner for in-house modification to legacy surface to surface missiles (originally designed for sub-sonic flight) to fly at supersonic speed.

...

I like tarmak007 but I wonder if this one is DDM'itis? How does one go about making a subsonic SS-N-2 or SS-N-25 missile supersonic? Aerodynamic improvements? Propellant changes?...I would expect this tinkering (actually major design improvements) to be beyond the capacity of anything but OEM. Not quite the same as slapping on a coat of RAM.

titash · Post by **titash** » 08 Dec 2015 23:10

Philip wrote:Bad news fir the IN if this report is true. No second Akula coming. The sub should'bve been given top priority instead of the 50 KA-226s which in any case do not have any ASW capability.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/14783/ ... mcDY8uhdjo
India Likely To Sign $15 Billion Defence Deals With Russia

Source : Our Bureau ~ Dated : Monday, December 7, 2015

Moscow and New Delhi are likely to sign defense agreements worth around $15 billion that include S-400 missile defense system, Mi-175V attack helicopters, Kamov multirole choppers during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Moscow.

Modi is likely to visit Moscow probably on December 24-25. Defense deals include the purchase of 48 Mi-17V5 attack helicopters for the IAF and 50 Kamov multirole choppers for the Indian Navy. Talks to lease one more nuclear submarine from Russia seems to have hit the road block. “We are no more considering to lease the nuclear submarine,” said a top level Indian naval official.

Russia had offered Kashalot K-322 nuclear power submarine of project 971 Shchuka to India and the talks were going on for some months. Indian Navy is already operating a Nerpa class Russian nuclear-powered submarine ‘INS Chakra,’ which it leased from Moscow in 2012 for ten years. The Indian Navy operated a Russian nuclear submarine for ten years back in the early 1980s.

The Russians have offered to upgrade the submarine based on Indian requirements and promised to handover the charge of the vessel in 2018 after the repair, upgrade and testing work and the Indian crew’s training are completed. The official would not say why the talks for leasing submarine are not fructifying. However, deal for S-400 missile system said to be firmly on track.

The modalities, including the price of deal and number of systems to be acquired, were agreed upon during the meeting of India-Russia Inter Governmental Commission on Military-Technical-Cooperation (IRIGC-MTC) which was co-chaired by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoigu in the first week of last month.

Wonder if these are Ka-28 copters instead of Ka-226...an emergency buy of 50 copters would make sense in this case

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 09 Dec 2015 00:19

TOI also notes the same award. I am guessing that they put a new solid fuel booster.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 060562.cms

...

The best trophy for a shore establishment, in turn, went to the Navy's missile preparation facility INS Tunir for modifying an old surface-to-surface missile, which was originally designed for sub-sonic flight, to fly at a supersonic flight. The award was received by the facility's commanding officer, Commodore P K Singh.

...

srai · Post by **srai** » 09 Dec 2015 00:33

^^^

Probably the simplest way would be to alter the flight software and make the missile dive from certain altitude. That would likely give you supersonic speed without tinkering design too much.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Dec 2015 06:57

that Styx looks like it packs a massive warhead. can we make some cheap clone and give our army as a SRBM of sorts?

John · Post by **John** » 09 Dec 2015 07:41

Styx unf is quite easy to shoot down compared to cruise missile or modern AshM (during GW2 numerous silkworm that were converted to land attack missile were easily shot down) and is not fast enough to be converted to ballistic missile.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 09 Dec 2015 08:22

Is it actually good news if no second Akula? Is the Arihant doing better than expected?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Dec 2015 15:10

The roles are different.The Arihant is an SSBN while the Akula is an SSGN.Akulas have been able to patrol off the US coastline without detection in recent times.The offer was for the "Kash-a-lot"

,to be upgraded with IN specifics,new features similar to the latest Ru SSGNs, and delivered within 3 years. Can't understand why we haven't "kashed in". Possessing two Akulas would mean that at least one would always be available for use in a crisis, accompanying an IN CBNG/task force,or shadowing a PLAN N-sub on patrol in the IOR.

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 09 Dec 2015 16:40

Is it actually good news if no second Akula? Is the Arihant doing better than expected?

I think the Akulla was dropped because the Political cost to the country was too high. If that was the case then good.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 09 Dec 2015 17:02

They may also not to do things in a public manner also.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 09 Dec 2015 19:21

It could merely have been converting an obsolete Styx to a supersonic target for SAM testing.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 09 Dec 2015 23:22

Political cost for dropping Akula? IMO that is an asymmetric strategic asset. To find a sub the enemy has to plunk in ten times the assets worth the sub.

Purchasing Rafales will cost us both monetarily and politically ( not being able to purchase anything or influence anything for a long time ). I hope MOD friggin rethinks this.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 09 Dec 2015 23:34

rkhanna wrote:
Is it actually good news if no second Akula? Is the Arihant doing better than expected?
I think the Akulla was dropped because the Political cost to the country was too high. If that was the case then good.

What political cost? Supporting Russia against the US f.e.?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 09 Dec 2015 23:45

Karan M wrote:
rkhanna wrote:
I think the Akulla was dropped because the Political cost to the country was too high. If that was the case then good.
What political cost? Supporting Russia against the US f.e.?

Yes, should have asked that question myself. What is the poster talking about in the first place... What political cost?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 10 Dec 2015 01:10

Do we know if any Dhruvs are gonna get inducted for ASW work? They did develop LFDS for dhruv after Mihir failed. Any chance the IN will order 24-32 of these based on dhruv? http://i.imgur.com/mJaYz1V.jpg

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 10 Dec 2015 09:39

Dhruvs are too small to house the ASW eqpt.,plus weaponry and sufficient range/endurance required. It is poss. that they could be Chetak replacements,now that the helo has folding rotors and most hangars able to accommodate it.However, our real need is Sea King replacements,100+ required.Some of the KA-28s are long in the tooth too.There was some mention about upgrades,but even an upgrade offers a limited no. of extra years of service. The MOD/IN should swiftly evaluate the offers including the NH-90 which could be the best bet.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 10 Dec 2015 12:03

We need our own IMRH (10-15 ton). Turbomeca is working on a HHE engine for 2500 to 3500 shp range. I am not sure why that is not moving ahead. All three branches need it and we just projected a need for 1500 helicopters of all types for our services. Two of 3000 shp engines will roughly translate to 12 ton aircraft. This should have majority of our needs covered for a very long time.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 10 Dec 2015 12:58

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/j ... te][b]Join naval exercise with Russia [/b]
Capt. Krishna Swamynathan (left in blue), commanding officer INS Mysore, Capt. Andre Kuznetsov (centre), commanding officer of Russian distroer, Marshal Shaposhnikov and Capt. Dinesh Singh, commanding officer, INS Tabar, onboard INS Mysore durinjg the press conference to announce Indo Russian naval exercise, in Mumbai on Friday. Photo: Vivek Bendre

The Hindu
Capt. Krishna Swamynathan (left in blue), commanding officer INS Mysore, Capt. Andre Kuznetsov (centre), commanding officer of Russian distroer, Marshal Shaposhnikov and Capt. Dinesh Singh, commanding officer, INS Tabar, onboard INS Mysore durinjg the press conference to announce Indo Russian naval exercise, in Mumbai on Friday. Photo: Vivek Bendre

Objective is to enhance interoperability

INDRA, joint military exercise with Russia, is being held in Mumbai from November 28 to December 3.

Destroyer Marshal Shaposhnikov, replenishment oiler Irkut and rescue tug Alatau of the Russian Federation’s Navy Pacific Fleet (PF) Task Unit and India’s INS Mysore and INS Tabar are participating in the exercise.

INDRA began in year 2003 and is being conducted every two years.

“The main objective of this exercise is to enhance interoperability, which will be useful if both the navies are working against the common threat like the pirates in the Gulf of Aden. It will be helpful for wider cooperation and mutual understanding between two navies,” said Captain Krishna Swaminathan, Commanding Officer of INS Mysore. The navies will work on communication between ships, sending signals and guarding civil ships from pirate attacks. It also involves live firing drills, air defence and anti- submarine exercises.

Capt. Swaminathan said Indian ships were focussing hard on tackling the problem of Somali pirates in the Gulf of Aden. “At such situations, we need to work in coordination with naval ships from other countries. Joint exercises turn out to be useful while tackling such common threats,” he said.

Andrey Kuznetsov, Captain of Marshal Shaposhnikov, said such joint exercises were confidence building measures undertaken by both nations. “Indian ships act strongly and professionally. We will also learn many things from our Indian counterparts,” he said.
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srai · Post by **srai** » 11 Dec 2015 03:17

Philip wrote:Dhruvs are too small to house the ASW eqpt.,plus weaponry and sufficient range/endurance required. It is poss. that they could be Chetak replacements,now that the helo has folding rotors and most hangars able to accommodate it.However, our real need is Sea King replacements,100+ required.Some of the KA-28s are long in the tooth too.There was some mention about upgrades,but even an upgrade offers a limited no. of extra years of service. The MOD/IN should swiftly evaluate the offers including the NH-90 which could be the best bet.

Dhruvs are more or less the size of RN Lynx ASW helos. So it is possible to make ASW version of Dhruvs and find use for them. But an ideal platform for the IN's ASW requirement would be more of a medium sized helo.