Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

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Vipul
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Vipul » 19 Jan 2016 23:21

Lockheed Martin looks at reviving bid to sell Javelin missiles to India.

US defence major Lockheed Martin is planning to revive its pending bid to sell Javelin missiles under Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s ‘Make in India’ campaign.

The plan to buy Javelin missiles from Lockheed Martin was shelved a couple of years ago.

However, the proposal got a fresh lease of life when Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar visited the US last month where US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter pushed for the deal, sources told BusinessLine. Sources said Lockheed Martin is even ready to co-produce these shoulder-fired anti-tank guided Javelin missiles in India, albeit at a later stage.

For this, the US government is also planning to put the deal under US-India Defence Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) to expedite the process, sources said. But to revive the deal, the US government will have to grant its permission to Lockheed Martin once it gets a request for buying these missiles from the Ministry of Defence (MoD).

The US had been trying to sell these missiles to the Indian armed forces since 2013. However, the plan was put on the backburner when the Defence Ministry chose to buy Israel’s Spike anti-tank guided missile in 2014.

Beside Javelin, Lockheed Martin is also upbeat on the delivery of 123 Naval Multi Role Helicopters (NMRH) for the Indian Navy, world’s largest tender for such helicopters. The Defence Ministry had placed the order in December 2014.

Lockheed Martin is also bullish on the $5.3-billion C-130J aircraft deal, which includes delivery of 29 C-130J-30s stretch models, 13 HC130 Js, 30 MC-130Js and 6 KC-130 J refuellers.

The Maryland-headquartered firm is in advance negotiations for the Aegis ballistic missile defence system that can attack land targets, submarines and ships simultaneously.

It is also in talks with the government for the Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) such as the Stalker or Desert Hawk III for both military as well as civilian use.

The company is also looking at offering Tethered Aerostat System to India. These, typically, come fixed in a radar to provide low-cost and wide-area surveillance.

It also planning a substantial foray into areas such as cyber-security and renewable energy, officials said.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby brar_w » 19 Jan 2016 23:26

The C-130 deal is with the Pentagon to supply aircraft to the US services and not for the IAF.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /78260988/

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Kakkaji » 20 Jan 2016 00:53

1.86 lakh bullet-proof jackets for Army soldiers soon

NEW DELHI: The Army chief has assured bulletproof jackets for soldiers would be procured speedily. The 'process to procure 1.86 lakh jackets, with new qualitative requirements, has passed technical trials and were undergoing field trials as part of the second stage of the process, he said.

Sources have indicated that with the technical trials cleared, very little remains to hamper the procurement process. "In the field trials stage we just check the user comfort, weight etc and no real technical issues. In case of bulletproof jackets, this stage is unlikely to create any bottleneck," a senior Army official told ET.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Kakkaji » 20 Jan 2016 01:06

Cross-Posting from the Indian Army thread:

Coming soon: ‘Make in India’ special clothing for soldiers at the world’s highest battlefield

Army soldiers serving in the inhospitable, icy climates of Siachen glacier — the most dangerous battlefield in the world — could soon be using special jackets, trousers, boots, sleeping bags and other specialised extreme winter clothing items that are made in India. These clothes are designed to allow soldiers to operate in temperatures which go up to minus 55 degree Celsius. Since 1984, when India captured the Siachen glacier, the army has lost 869 soldiers in Siachen due to extreme climatic conditions and environmental factors.

Indian suppliers have now, for the first time, given their samples to the army for trials in five items of Siachen and Super High Altitude clothing. Soldiers deployed beyond an altitude of 14,000 feet — in Siachen, Kargil, Drass, Arunachal Pradesh and Sikkim —are issued Siachen and Super High Altitude clothing which consists of 55 items.

Out of 55, 22 are one-time issue items, such as a down jacket or a sleeping bag, issued to an individual soldier and not recycled thereafter: nine of them are imported. The balance 33 items are unit issue items, such as special tents and ice axes: 11 of them are imported.

These imported items are mostly made in China :eek: , although they are supplied by around a dozen foreign firms from Switzerland, Italy, Australia, Canada, Singapore, Norway and UK.

The annual requirement of Siachen clothing for the army is around 27,000 sets. The army maintains a reserve for another year’s requirement. The average shortfall of items in Siachen clothing is between 5-10 per cent every year which is replenished from the reserves.

Besides ensuring that there is no depletion in reserve stock, once these items are produced under ‘Make in India’, the defence ministry is also concerned about other problems related to the import of Siachen clothing. The import process has a long gestation period and fluctuating foreign exchange rates further complicate it.

The biggest issue for us is the China factor. Most of these items use bird feathers as a filling. Even though the items are certified for avian flu, we can never be sure about the Chinese products. Despite the quality check, we feel that we are still taking a chance of bringing infection to India,” a defence ministry official said.

As per defence ministry sources, the impetus to promote ‘Make in India’ in Siachen clothing came from a meeting last February with the Indian Technical textile Association (ITTA), the apex body representing technical textile manufacturers in the country. Army had displayed all the items of Siachen clothing at an exhibition-cum-seminar in Delhi and asked Indian manufacturers to bid for supplying the imported items.

“This first of its kind event was supported by the Ministry of Textiles and attended by Defence Forces, DRDO, DGQA and the domestic Industry. That interaction has now started showing results and the army is moving towards both product improvement and cutting down its import bill for textiles by working with Indian companies,” Sundaraman KS, vice-chairman of ITTA and executive director of Shiva Texyarn Ltd told The Indian Express.

Besides Shiva Texyarn, National Textile Corporation, Sara Sae, Key Tent and Sabre Safety Ltd are the other Indian companies who have deposited the samples of their items with the army. After the tenders are opened, these items will undergo 90 days of trials at Siachen in peak winters. The trial report shall be available to the defence ministry by April and based on technical evaluation and lab testing by DGQA, the suppliers will be finalised.

Unlike earlier, we are not going for generic specifications, but going by user approved samples. For example, in the sleeping bag, we used to say 90 per cent down feather filling. Now we have changed it to ‘or any other suitable material’. At the end of this process, we will be able to fix new technical specifications for each item which will help Indian vendors indigenise these products,8) an army official involved with the tender process explained.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby ramana » 20 Jan 2016 02:26

Need to watch out to make sure cotton/wool batting is not substituted as "any other suitable material".

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Kakkaji » 20 Jan 2016 02:28

Tata Motors likely to bag additional order for trucks, taking total order to Rs 1,300 crore

NEW DELHI: Tata Motors is set to bag an additional order for high mobility military trucks, taking its total order book for the advanced vehicles to Rs 1,300 crore, the single largest contract to be awarded to an Indian manufacturer by the Army.

Tata Motors had won the order earlier in a competition that included the Tatra-BEML combine. "We are confident that the vehicles have more than met the requirements of the Indian Army. We are also in the process of increasing the indigenous content on the trucks, including the loading crane that will soon be made fully in India," Vernon Noronha, Vice President, Defence and Government Business, Tata Motors told ET.


This is how progressive indigenization happens. 8)

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Kakkaji » 20 Jan 2016 02:30

ramana wrote:Need to watch out to make sure cotton/wool batting is not substituted as "any other suitable material".


Is there any locally-available substitute for Down feathers?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby ramana » 20 Jan 2016 03:25

I guess some poly-fill insulation.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby sudeepj » 20 Jan 2016 03:25

Kakkaji wrote:
ramana wrote:Need to watch out to make sure cotton/wool batting is not substituted as "any other suitable material".


Is there any locally-available substitute for Down feathers?


Down can be produced locally.. Its basically water fowl feathers. Nothing high tech.. Nature has already done all the work for us. :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_feather
Down is warm, lightweight and packable. If well cared for, it retains its loft up to three times longer than do most synthetics.[26] However, when it is wet, the thermal properties of down are virtually eliminated. Down forms clumps if exposed to dampness or moisture, and will mildew if left damp. In addition, it will absorb and retain odors.[27]


For a given weight, down is really warm and quite luxurious.. :-) But I prefer wool and polyester over down in my gear because it doesnt deal with water very well. Pure wool actually gets warmer when wet because of a exothermic chemical reaction.. !! Amazing stuff.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Surya » 20 Jan 2016 05:33

Good down is expensive now

I bought a down jacket 15 yrs ago - goose down- weather beaten but still going strong

tolerates the cold of the deep north -

Washing and drying require a bit of care

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Kakkaji » 20 Jan 2016 23:09

Posting in full:

Task force identifies 10 defence segments for strategic ties

NEW DELHI: A high-level task force, headed by former DRDO chief V K Aatre, has recommended to the Defence Ministry ten critical segments where it can go for strategic partnerships.

In a move that may rile private companies, the task force has recommended that one company cannot be eligible for multiple partnerships. This means that, each company would be restricted to just one critical segment in the overall multi-billion dollar defence manufacturing sector.

The task force, which has submitted its report to the Defence Ministry, has divided the sectors eligible for strategic partnerships into two groups.

Segments in Group 1 are - aircraft, helicopters, aero- engines, submarines, warships, guns (including artillery guns) and armoured vehicles including tanks.

In Group 2, the segments are - metallic material and alloys, non-metallic material (including composites and polymers) and ammunition including smart ammunition.


However, it has recommended that in the initial phase, aircraft, helicopters, submarines, armoured vehicles and ammunition be considered for strategic partnerships.

"Only one company shall be eligible as the Applicant Company from one group in respect of Group 1 segments. Such applicant company shall be permitted to file an application for selection as a Strategic Partner in respect of Group 1 segments," the report said.

It has recommended a series of criteria for the ranking of the companies.

"Upon application of the applicant companies, the highest ranked applicant company shall be selected by the MoD and allotted the status of strategic partner of the segment. In event the same applicant company is ranked highest in more than one segment, the preference list as submitted by the applicant company at the time of application shall be followed.

"Therefore, such an applicant company shall be appointed the strategic partner for the segment which is listed higher in its preference list prioritising it preference to segments in rank. For other segments where it is highest ranked but has not been selected, in view of the preference list the next ranked applicant company shall be appointed the strategic partner," the report said.

The feeling among the private industry players is that only the big firms will benefit out of this. However, even the large firms are not open to the idea since they feel that they would be restricted to just specific fields and, therefore, their overall investment and plans will get affected.

An official of a defence firm, who did not want to be identified, said, "It creates the ground for nomination of a private sector business partner for award of defence contracts on an exclusive basis in each of the major categories in defence production."

"The Aatre process could enable the big five of the Indian private sector defence industry to corner about 80 per cent of the business and create monopolies in all categories," an industry source said, claiming that it may herald a return of "crony capitalism".

Also, "restricting one group to one platform is unprecedented. Globally, every large defence firm has a land, air and naval segment," a defence company official said.

Even the foreign firms are skeptical. "How can the government decide who our private sector partner will be? We will wait for a final decision before commenting," a company source said.


What do the Gurus think? Will this work?

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby NRao » 20 Jan 2016 23:42

Kakkaji wrote:Posting in full:

Task force identifies 10 defence segments for strategic ties

What do the Gurus think? Will this work?


I am at a loss for words. They seem to have said that India is way behind the curve on *all* products. Is that true? And, if so, how do they expect a "tie up" to help? We have been through a variety of "tie ups". Some have worked for the immediate future, I am not sure that they have built a complete ecosystem that would actually be able to cut that umbilical. How this will accomplish that - which I assume is THE goal - I have no clue.

Immediate reaction: disappointed.

Main flaw: no game plan for long term resolution for standing up a world class MIC. Perhaps the DTTI is accomplishing more than this.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Cain Marko » 21 Jan 2016 09:18

Kakkaji wrote:India and France to focus on Rafale deal, more defence projects in pipeline during François Hollande’s visit

NEW DELHI: While much attention has been on the mega Rafale fighter aircraft contract, India and France are likely to focus on several defence projects during French President Francois Hollande's visit for the Republic Day celebrations, including the possibility of extending the Scorpene submarine line with additional orders.

"We may look at an addition of two more submarines, but with an enhanced capability of staying underwater for longer. This would also help retain the skilled manpower that MDL has raised over the years by working on the Scorpene submarines," a senior Navy officer told ET.


I sure hope this happens...a couple of boats directly from Fra as a measure to stem the falling numbers. Can be supported by MDL, but will probably be cheaper and faster if built in France.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Kanson » 21 Jan 2016 14:43

NRao wrote:
Kakkaji wrote:Posting in full:

Task force identifies 10 defence segments for strategic ties

What do the Gurus think? Will this work?


I am at a loss for words. They seem to have said that India is way behind the curve on *all* products. Is that true? And, if so, how do they expect a "tie up" to help? We have been through a variety of "tie ups". Some have worked for the immediate future, I am not sure that they have built a complete ecosystem that would actually be able to cut that umbilical. How this will accomplish that - which I assume is THE goal - I have no clue.

Immediate reaction: disappointed.

Main flaw: no game plan for long term resolution for standing up a world class MIC. Perhaps the DTTI is accomplishing more than this.


I think this is unwarranted. This set-up is not for what you think it is. This is to exploit local capabilities without the ills of 'world class' MIC as we seen in US or during UPA era as entities try to drag down the system by fighting among themselves.

This is meant as first step not the final. Based on the progress it may be expanded or modified, as mentioned,

However, it has recommended that in the initial phase, aircraft, helicopters, submarines, armoured vehicles and ammunition be considered for strategic partnerships.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby VinodTK » 22 Jan 2016 06:23

Army planning to share fighting concepts to generate combat solutions from private industries
NEW DELHI: In a first, the Army is planning to share its concept of the battlefield and warfighting with the Indian industry, hoping that the engagement will generate innovative combat solutions from the private sector. A series of workshops are planned across the nation - in smaller, non-metro towns - to interact with defence manufacturers to share the modernisation requirements of the Army.

As part of the Make in India initiative, the armed forces have in recent months been conducting several engagements in the capital but for the first time, the interactions are set to shift to smaller towns where manufacturers, companies and startups are located.

The Army, which has the largest budget among the three forces, has equipment requirements that are relatively low tech and can be sourced from Indian manufacturers more easily. While these requirements and needs have traditionally been shrouded in secrecy, plans are in place to make things more transparent to bring the industry on board.

"The idea is to share how the army fights. A bottom up perspective of the battlefield will be explained to the industry. How operations are carried out along the line of control or how militants are engaged. This will enable the industry to suggest innovations for warfighting," an official involved in the process said.

The concept of starting the workshops in smaller cities is also in line with the government's policy of decentralization. Sources have told ET that the workshops are likely to begin in towns like Pune, Ahmedabad, Bangalore and Lucknow. Among other initiatives that the Army is planning to promote indigenisation is the setting up of an Army Design Bureau ( ADB) that would assist the industry and DRDO with weapon design and modernisation.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Kakkaji » 23 Jan 2016 08:21

Posting in full:

Govt holds consultations for radically different defence offsets policy

The defence ministry carried out a second round of consultation with the private defence firms on Thursday for finalising a radically different offsets policy on defence deals. The proposed new offsets policy will do away with the existing policy which mandates 30 per cent offsets on a foreign defence contract.

Defence minister Manohar Parrikar has been a critic of the current offsets policy. He has argued that India has so far been spending 14-18 per cent extra on defence contracts because of the existing offset policy. He also stated that India has signed $5 billion worth defence offset contracts while $10 billion of additional offsets are in the pipeline.

Department of defence production has held two rounds of negotiations with the industry so far. In the first interaction in December, officials outlined the broad contours of the proposed policy.

The proposed policy has three options given to the foreign supplier for discharge of offsets, which will be clearly specified in the Request for Proposal (RFP) issued by the ministry.

In the first option, the RFP will specify certain critical technology that the foreign supplier will have to transfer to the Indian partner. This will be chosen from a bank of technologies identified by the DRDO in collaboration with private industry.

The second option will ask the foreign supplier to manufacture a specific sub-system or component of a product in India, while the final option obligates the foreign vendor to develop requisite skill sets in the Indian industry. The government will specify either one or more of these offset options in the RFP.

Under the existing policy, foreign defence suppliers signing contracts worth Rs 300 crore or more are mandated to spend at least 30 per cent of the contract value in India as offsets. Earlier this month, Parrikar announced that the contract value for offsets will be raised from Rs 300 crore to Rs 2,000 crore in Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) 2016.
Sources in the defence ministry said that DPP-2016 is scheduled to be notified in a couple of months and will feature the existing offsets policy, with the raised contract value of Rs 2,000 crore. The proposed offsets policy, once finalised, will be notified separately later in the year to replace this older version.

An industry representative who attended the meeting with defence ministry officials earlier this week told The Indian Express that the industry feedback was about the transfer of technology being done to DRDO. The industry representatives felt that the license for the technology should be with the private sector and DRDO can at best be a co-holder of technology.

The other issues flagged by the industry representatives pertain to ownership structure of Indian partner, non-insistence on 100 per cent IPR over the transfer and wider flexibility to foreign supplier to discharge offsets across group companies. Defence ministry officials said that they will now take these issues to the DPSUs, service headquarters, DRDO and other stakeholders before finalizing the policy.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Lalmohan » 23 Jan 2016 21:49

a good down sleeping bag is about 4-5 x more expensive than a synthetic one, and has significantly better insulation properties. all the serious mountaineering maal is all down; the art is in keeping the down protected from moisture so that it can do its job. some modern jackets are also getting very high tech around a down core (see arcteryx) and are lighter and tougher than their predecessors

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Kakkaji » 24 Jan 2016 09:17

What kind of material do they use in spacesuits?

Years ago. I saw gloves etc made from 'Thinsulate' which was apparently synthetic material derived from space suit technology. It was reasonably priced. But I have not seen it around lately.

There are articles in wikipedia about how Down is 'farmed' nowadays, without harming the birds. I am sure entrepreneurs in India can do it if there is assured demand.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby member_29172 » 24 Jan 2016 19:11

Kakkaji wrote:What kind of material do they use in spacesuits?

Years ago. I saw gloves etc made from 'Thinsulate' which was apparently synthetic material derived from space suit technology. It was reasonably priced. But I have not seen it around lately.

There are articles in wikipedia about how Down is 'farmed' nowadays, without harming the birds. I am sure entrepreneurs in India can do it if there is assured demand.



Raw materials used in space suits
Numerous raw materials are used for constructing a spacesuit. Fabric materials include a variety of different synthetic polymers. The innermost layer is made up of a Nylon tricot material. Another layer is composed of spandex, an elastic wearable polymer. There is also a layer of urethane-coated nylon, which is involved in pressurization. Dacron—a type of polyester—is used for a pressure-restraining layer. Other synthetic fabrics used include Neoprene that is a type of sponge rubber, aluminized Mylar, Gortex, Kevlar, and Nomex.

Beyond synthetic fibers other raw materials have important roles. Fiberglass is the primary material for the hard upper torso segment. Lithium hydroxide is used in making the filter which removes carbon dioxide and water vapor during a space walk. A silver zinc blend comprises the battery that powers the suit. Plastic tubing is woven into the fabric to transport cooling water throughout the suit. A polycarbonate material is used for constructing the shell of the helmet. Various other components are used to make up the electronic circuitry and suit controls.


http://www.madehow.com/Volume-5/Spacesuit.html

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby VinodTK » 25 Jan 2016 04:35

Airbus Helicopters, Mahindra Defence sign statement of intent for joint venture
Mumbai, Jan 24:

A ‘statement of intent’ was signed between Airbus Helicopters and Mahindra Defence to cement their Make in India partnership and to affirm their commitment to make military helicopters.

The agreement, signed in Chandigarh, in the presence of Prime Minister Narendra Modi and visiting French President François Hollande, is a follow-up to the memorandum of understanding signed last July between Mahindra Defence and Airbus Helicopters to form a joint venture to produce military helicopters in India.

Both the companies have already initiated a relationship to produce helicopter parts locally.

The joint venture would be bidding for upcoming tenders including the reconnaissance and surveillance helicopter (RSH), naval utility helicopter (NUH), and naval multirole helicopter (NMH) procurements.

Simultaneously, both sides are also evaluating potential industrial sites and are screening the existing local supply chain, and are defining initial work packages to be transferred to India, the companies said in a joint statement. The companies are proposing to set up a final assembly line in India, develop tier-1 and tier-2 suppliers and make extensive transfer of technology, with the intent to ultimately achieve 50 per cent indigenous content.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Singha » 25 Jan 2016 10:41

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/tech/india- ... 94480.html

india to setup satellite imagery center in vietnam and provide access to IRS imagery.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Vipul » 04 Feb 2016 18:14

Rs 37,000 crore of defence ministry's modernisation budget remains unutilised; army worst spender.

Even though several major defence purchases are in their advanced stages, the defence ministry is struggling to exhaust its modernisation funds with almost 40% of the capital budget unspent as the financial year enters its last quarter.

Latest expenditure data with ET show that over Rs 37,000 crore of the defence ministry's modernisation budget remains unutilised as of December-end, with the Army struggling the most, having spent only 45% of its capital allocation. In 2014-15 too, the ministry could not spend 22% of the initially allocatedRs 80,545-crore capital budget for the three armed forces.

Eventually, the balance Rs 18,200 crore under the capital head was used mainly for revenue expenses. Of the three forces, the army seems to be the laggard, having failed to exhaust half its modernisation budget.

The ministry now faces a situation where a part of its funds earmarked for new purchases and upgrades are likely to be shifted either to the revenue head or returned to the central kitty, in what would be a dent to modernisation efforts. (The Fuc***s :x )

Official spending numbers obtained by ET indicate that the defence ministry could fall short of its target of signing deals worth over Rs 1 lakh crore. The air force has been able to spend funds at a good pace, with 73% of its Rs 33,657-crore capital budget exhausted. DRDO, meanwhile, has spent 64% of its Rs 7,788-crore allocation. Officials believe the air force may end up overshooting its budget and could pull in funds earmarked for the army and navy.

With several major projects stuck — the M777 howitzer purchase and selfpropelled howitzers, for example — the army is at the bottom of the spending list. Only 45% of its Rs 27,227-crore capital budget has been exhausted till the end of December. The Navy fares slightly better, having spent 57% of its Rs 25,003-crore allocation.

The numbers also reflect an increasing concern on the part of the private sector over the government's ability to go ahead with major 'Make in India' projects that require firm orders.

While there have been several policy changes which have been welcomed by the industry, the lack of substantial orders has been a spoiler.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby arshyam » 04 Feb 2016 19:17

^^ The Arjun line is abegging for orders...

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Gyan » 04 Feb 2016 19:23

Army will not buy indigenous products even if has to return the money.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Kakkaji » 06 Feb 2016 08:18

Parrikar is doing good things, but he has not been able to "press thed charge home". Too many deals are "approved, but not yet signed", too many "policy changes in the works". At this rate, the equipment shortages in the forces will not even start getting filled up by 2019. :(
Last edited by Kakkaji on 06 Feb 2016 08:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Karan M » 06 Feb 2016 08:51

Parrikar can only do so much if the endless trials BS happens with unrealistic SQR or babu pen pushing goes to extremes..

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Kakkaji » 06 Feb 2016 08:53

Karan M wrote:Parrikar can only do so much if the endless trials BS happens with unrealistic SQR or babu pen pushing goes to extremes..


True, and very frustrating.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby arun » 06 Feb 2016 10:26

I can't say that this news item comes as a surprise. Indeed it would have been surprising if the contrary was reported:

Made in India is costlier; joint development is mere purchase

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Karan M » 06 Feb 2016 12:15

I would be equally surprised as to what constitutes journalism in India - stupidity seems to be a byword.

And of course, our report writers are another matter altogether.

The Russians have been making Flankers since the 1980s. The entire supply chain exists, costs have been amortized, infrastructure, trained personnel already available. India negotiates a deal wherein it has to set all this up - for a much much smaller production run, with significant raw material and components to be still imported from Russia - around 30% and then the Russians even delay TOT by around 12-36 months necessitating even more imports from Russia. And then the outrage, our Flankers are more expensive than their Flankers. Perhaps the phrase, no sh!t Sherlock, applies?

Next, the LRSAM and MRSAM. As anyone (should) know, the program grew out of a proposal from the Navy, which wanted Next Gen SAMs when the DRDO was bogged down with Akash and the BMD programs stretching its resources to the maximum. The Navy was none too happy with the Trishul's delays and its inability to hit sea skimming targets due to multipath reflection (which Akash subsequently rectified) and its malfunctioning beam riding guidance (which was fixed by the time of final IAF trials); more ire when a misdirected CAG went after an ex CNS for the Barak-1 purchase which proved excellent.

So when the IN asked for LRSAM & stated DRDO should work with IAI, it was a fait accompli. Similarly, the IAF got on the MRSAM bandwagon and the then CAS cut down the Akash orders to a mere 2 squadrons (which went back to 8 after the Akash succeeded). Again, a hard pressed DRDO acquiesced. In return, the deal was to get India seeker manufacturing technology & other thingmajigs. But as we all know DRDO is a development agency not a manufacturer, so IAI/Rafael and BEL were to strike a deal. For various reasons it did not go through. For its part, IAI tried to ensure its partner was TATA Nova and not BDL, the GOI struck that down. Reports emerged that IAI was not happy about transferring technology to GOI owned entities since it could not control where its technology went to. Again, all this was in UPA times and this level of haphazard confusion was par for the course.

Next, lets look at the LRSAM system. The missile propulsion is from India as are the actuators. The rest of the system is from Israel.
For the MRSAM system, the missile components apart, the C3I is from TATA ASL and DRDO and radar is from Israel. Power generation units are from India.
Again, the system is clearly NOT the same as the LRSAM since the C3I would be customized & the radars are different. The IAF MRSAM shows a derivative of the ELTA EL/M-2084 while the IN radars are the much more powerful different system.

So the LRSAM is not exactly the MRSAM & the report writers are clearly clueless by stating both are one or deliberately misstated the genesis of each program by stating it is surprising that the "design authority of each system" is IAI.

Lets see - the core of any SAM system are its radars & C3I. In the LRSAM - which is the base for both systems, the technology is coming directly from Israel, which after all, was chosen for the very things that DRDO (at the time) did not have - AESA radars & ability to make sea skimming counter missile systems with seekers. Who would be the design authority then? The agency which owns the technology and knows it in and out, or the one which is learning?

All in all, the plan was to license manufacture the systems in India & if the report writers think that merely license manufacturing transfers IPR for all possible items, then they really need to get their heads straight.

So is the LRSAM/MRSAM program a net bust? Hardly. The fact is that we will have a customized system for our ships and AF, of which, if we play our cards right, we can build significant components within. The LRSAM will mostly be imported since it hardly makes sense for us to license assemble a handful of radars for our capital ships. The MRSAM will likely be more localized.

At any rate, in coming years the experience via MR/LRSAM programs will be applied elsewhere. Via the Arudhra and Ashwini programs, we will also have our own local AESA radars & the Astra/BMD programs involve work with seekers.

Like the Brahmos, the MR/LRSAM programs were a solution, however limited, to our more immediate needs. The alternative would be to import systems outright like the Shtil (less advanced) or the Aster (complete import).

To play this up as some sort of mega outrage and ignore everything that has happened since then, and despite the state of funding for local programs, the service requirements is just plain nuts.

srai
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby srai » 06 Feb 2016 16:03

Apart from mature seeker technology, India has all the basic ingredients for making all sorts of missiles.

  • R&D, support infrastructure & certification -> check
  • Materials -> check
  • Propulsion -> check
  • Radars & Guidance -> check
  • C3I -> check
  • Computers & Avionics -> check
  • Warhead -> check
  • Production -> check
  • Onboard Seeker Guidance -> work in progress

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Karan M » 06 Feb 2016 23:52

Radar capability will take a leap forward once Ashwini and Arudhra plus AEW&C clear trials. These are our first, completely locally designed AESA systems with the range of modes etc required for full up systems with current tech & would mean our work on Rohini/Rajendra/Aslesha has now been taken to the next level.
The Arudhra is a direct equivalent of the EL/M-2084 at least in the air surveillance mission, whereas the Ashwini is an equivalent of the Thales GM-200.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Austin » 09 Feb 2016 17:33

Fresh push for Israeli missile system

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 909202.cms
NEW DELHI: India is readying a slew of military deals with Israel worth $3 billion before Prime Minister Narendra Modi visits Tel Aviv this year.

The pacts include the acquisition of 164 laser-designation pods or 'Litening-4' for IAF fighters like Sukhoi-30MKIs and Jaguars as well as 250 advanced 'Spice' precision stand-off bombs capable of taking out fortified enemy underground command centres. "It should be cleared by the CCS within a month or so," said an MoD source.

Some headway has been made over the stalled negotiations for an initial Rs 3,200-crore contract for 321 'Spike' anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) systems and 8,356 missiles. "There was a major difference (of opinion) in the ATGM project cost between the Israeli commercial bid and the much-lower price benchmarking done by the MoD. Over 20 contract negotiation committee meetings have been held till now... the effort now is to close the gap," said the source.

The Army desperately needs third-generation ATGMs, with a strike range of over 2.5-km and fire-and-forget capabilities, to equip all its 382 infantry battalions and 44 mechanised infantry units.

n October 2014, the Modi government had selected the Israeli Spike ATGM over the US Javelin missile system, but the actual contract has been hanging fire since then. The project involves an initial offthe-shelf induction, followed by large-scale indigenous manufacture by Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL) to equip the 1.18-million strong Army.

The proposed MR-SAM project between DRDO and Israeli Aerospace Industries (IAI), too, will be huge. The initial order is for one MRSAM regiment, with 16 firing units along with their multifunction surveillance and threat tracking radars as well as weapon control systems. But the SAM systems are also to be subsequently produced in bulk by BDL, in keeping with the similar ongoing DRDO-IAI projects worth around Rs 13,000 crore for Navy and IAF

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Singha » 10 Feb 2016 08:10

the israeli lobby seems to have made sure all domestic UAV projects fail. its a cash cow for them like t90 is for russia.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby John » 10 Feb 2016 08:39

Singha wrote:the israeli lobby seems to have made sure all domestic UAV projects fail. its a cash cow for them like t90 is for russia.


They were not stopping us from devoloping new UAVs or reverse engineering heron and searchers. Blame falls on us even with Nishant.

Rail based uav are obsolete, Sperwer considered to be gold standard for rail based uav has already been retired by Canada. For better or worse the current snail pace of requirement, development and procurement cycle simply doesn't work with rapid evolving tech like UAVs.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Prem » 10 Feb 2016 10:37

Rebound To Russia: Amid Rafale Impasse, IAF To Buy 40 More Sukhois
http://armingindia.com/Rebound%20To%20R ... ukhois.htm

NEW DELHI, FEB. 10, 2016: The Indian Air Force (IAF) has initiated the procurement of a fresh lot of 40 additional Su-30MKI air dominance fighters at an estimated $75 million apiece, reliable diplomatic sources disclosed to Arming India.The procurement is being taken up as a follow-on order to the 222 Su-30MKI fighters already contracted to be made under transfer of technology at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL)'s Nasik division.Along with the initial 50 aircraft acquired in a flyaway condition from Russia in the late 1990s, the latest increment of 40 aircraft will take the total number of Su-30MKIs ordered for the IAF to 312.This is a significant development running concurrently with the rapid headway in India-Russia talks on finalizing an agreement on an Indian commitment to the futuristic Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Arming India had on Feb. 3, 2016 exclusively reported a $3.7 billion deal-in-the-works for India's contribution to the development costs of the FGFA, and a further commitment to buy a minimum of 60 of these fighters.

The rebound to Russia takes places amidst a continuing impasse in Indo-French price negotiations for the import of 36 Rafale fighter aircraft for the IAF.Observers also see these developments as a consequence of a determined rearguard action by Russia to protect its turf and reinforce its pre-eminence in the Indian defense aerospace market. Russia's traditional dominance in the Indian market has sought to have been challenged by the U.S., Israel and Europe in the last decade-and-a-half.The reliance on the Sukhois extends the life of the Su-30MKI assembly line in Nasik by another decade. An estimated 175 of the 222 Su-30 MKIs contracted to be assembled in India are reported to have already been rolled out. The roll-out rate is between 10 and 12 aircraft a year. Post the Sukhois, the Russian complex at HAL will be kept alive with the licensed manufacture of the FGFA.Interestingly, India and Russia are set to sign a deal for faster delivery of Sukhoi spares for the IAF. The Economic Times had reported in early December 2015, quoting Sukhoi Managing Director Valery V. Chishchevoy, that an Indian delegation was to deliberate on the spares supply deal later that month and the contract for the same would be signed at the earliest.
The Sukhoi resurgence and the FGFA inroads will directly impact on the market for the Rafale in India, keen observers of defense trade reckon. Although the initial negotiations are for only 36 Rafale jets for the IAF, France is already pursuing a detailed roadmap to notch up sales even beyond the original Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) number of 126 and also pitch the Rafale for the Indian Navy, sources inform Arming India. The Russian jets, clearly, stand in the way of these plans.What is hard for a resource-strapped Indian defense establishment to ignore is that the Rafale is, reportedly, two-and-a-half times more expensive than the Rafale. The cost of 40 follow-on Sukhois to the Indian exchequer is about $3 billion, as against the reported $7 billion to $8 billion for the 36 Rafales.However, IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha has made it clear on more than a couple of occasions that Sukhois aren't a replacement for the MMRCA, under which Rafale is the chosen one.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Kartik » 11 Feb 2016 00:25

Bharat Forge to form JV with Rafael of Israel

Indian company Bharat Forge Limited (BFL) has entered an agreement with Israel's Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Limited to form a joint venture (JV) to produce defence electronics and carry out military vehicle upgrades.

BFL said in a filing to the Bombay Stock Exchange on 9 February that the JV with Rafael will initially look to win Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) contracts to upgrade the Indian Army's Russian BMP-2/2K 'Sarath' infantry combat vehicles (ICVs) as well as to manufacture tactical control systems and "other advanced systems".

Investment in the JV will be channelled through BFL's defence division, Kalyani Strategic Systems Limited (KSSL), which specialises in manufacturing artillery systems, ammunition, military vehicles, defence electronics, and components for armoured fighting vehicles.

RoyG
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby RoyG » 11 Feb 2016 00:28

Jhujar wrote:Rebound To Russia: Amid Rafale Impasse, IAF To Buy 40 More Sukhois
http://armingindia.com/Rebound%20To%20R ... ukhois.htm

NEW DELHI, FEB. 10, 2016: The Indian Air Force (IAF) has initiated the procurement of a fresh lot of 40 additional Su-30MKI air dominance fighters at an estimated $75 million apiece, reliable diplomatic sources disclosed to Arming India.The procurement is being taken up as a follow-on order to the 222 Su-30MKI fighters already contracted to be made under transfer of technology at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL)'s Nasik division.Along with the initial 50 aircraft acquired in a flyaway condition from Russia in the late 1990s, the latest increment of 40 aircraft will take the total number of Su-30MKIs ordered for the IAF to 312.This is a significant development running concurrently with the rapid headway in India-Russia talks on finalizing an agreement on an Indian commitment to the futuristic Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Arming India had on Feb. 3, 2016 exclusively reported a $3.7 billion deal-in-the-works for India's contribution to the development costs of the FGFA, and a further commitment to buy a minimum of 60 of these fighters.

The rebound to Russia takes places amidst a continuing impasse in Indo-French price negotiations for the import of 36 Rafale fighter aircraft for the IAF.Observers also see these developments as a consequence of a determined rearguard action by Russia to protect its turf and reinforce its pre-eminence in the Indian defense aerospace market. Russia's traditional dominance in the Indian market has sought to have been challenged by the U.S., Israel and Europe in the last decade-and-a-half.The reliance on the Sukhois extends the life of the Su-30MKI assembly line in Nasik by another decade. An estimated 175 of the 222 Su-30 MKIs contracted to be assembled in India are reported to have already been rolled out. The roll-out rate is between 10 and 12 aircraft a year. Post the Sukhois, the Russian complex at HAL will be kept alive with the licensed manufacture of the FGFA.Interestingly, India and Russia are set to sign a deal for faster delivery of Sukhoi spares for the IAF. The Economic Times had reported in early December 2015, quoting Sukhoi Managing Director Valery V. Chishchevoy, that an Indian delegation was to deliberate on the spares supply deal later that month and the contract for the same would be signed at the earliest.
The Sukhoi resurgence and the FGFA inroads will directly impact on the market for the Rafale in India, keen observers of defense trade reckon. Although the initial negotiations are for only 36 Rafale jets for the IAF, France is already pursuing a detailed roadmap to notch up sales even beyond the original Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) number of 126 and also pitch the Rafale for the Indian Navy, sources inform Arming India. The Russian jets, clearly, stand in the way of these plans.What is hard for a resource-strapped Indian defense establishment to ignore is that the Rafale is, reportedly, two-and-a-half times more expensive than the Rafale. The cost of 40 follow-on Sukhois to the Indian exchequer is about $3 billion, as against the reported $7 billion to $8 billion for the 36 Rafales.However, IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha has made it clear on more than a couple of occasions that Sukhois aren't a replacement for the MMRCA, under which Rafale is the chosen one.


Good find. Looks like we may very well purchase more Su-30s and dump money into LCA MKII and AMCA.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby arun » 13 Feb 2016 07:02

X Posted from the Indian Military Aviation thread.

India likely to acquire 164 Litening 5 targetting pods and an unspecified number of Spice 250 standoff glide bombs to equip the Su-30 MKI fleet from Israel:

Rafael anticipates Litening, Spice deal with India

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby Kakkaji » 14 Feb 2016 09:16

Make in India: Saab, Bharat Forge to form JV for air defence solutions

The joint venture will handle main part of production delivery of air defence systems. The production in India will comprise of sub-systems and systems for short-range surface to air missiles and very short-range air defence missile systems, with the aim to transfer production and technology. To secure production quality, orders of missile parts have already been issued to Kalyani Strategic Systems Ltd — a Bharat Forge subsidiary involved in the project.

"The joint venture is already under preparation within both companies and will be ready to launch soon," said Gorgen Johansson, head of Saab business area dynamics.

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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Postby deejay » 14 Feb 2016 13:54

India may buy four early warning E-2D Advanced Hawkeye aircraft for INS Vishal

http://www.defencenews.in/article/India-may-buy-four-early-warning-E-2D-Advanced-Hawkeye-aircraft-for-INS-Vishal-2807


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