Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-2014)

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Falijee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10948
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by Falijee »

LUMS assistant professor missing- picked up by intelligence
LAHORE:
A spokesperson of the Lahore University of Management Sciences (LUMS) said on Wednesday that an assistant professor of the university was missing and that the varsity had no information about his whereabouts.
Yasser Hashmi, the LUMS spokesman, said that the university had received reports that Dr Shazib Ehsan Sheikh, a faculty member of Suleman Dawood School of Business, was detained by security agencies. “There is no information as to which agency has detained Sheikh and the nature of the charges or investigation.”
On Tuesday, Express News had reported that an assistant professor had been picked up while leaving the campus. The report said he was suspected of ties with some extremist outfits. The report said that his laptop had been seized and that he was suspected of being in contact with terrorist outfits through social media and via email. Hashmi said, “We presume Dr Sheikh to be innocent until any charges against him are proven in a court of law with due process allowing him a chance to clear his name.”
“We expect that those who have detained him will present him as soon as possible.”
In the meantime, the Chief (Terrorist ) of LET is provided "fool proof" security by Deep State to ensure that he is not "picked up " by foreign intelligence :mrgreen:
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by shiv »

deejay wrote:It appears that Turkish troops fired at white flag waving Kurds. A series of short videos have surfaced.

https://www.rt.com/news/329793-alleged- ... -shooting/

The videos are embedded with the news report linked above. Disturbing visuals to say the least.
Just had a thought..

In Palestine, Muslims fight non Muslims relentlessly.
In the Levant Muslims fight Muslims relentlessly
In Kursdistan Muslims fight Muslims relentlessly
In Kashmir, separatists are perpetually fighting
Sunnis are fighting shias
Sunnis are fighting ahmedis

Muslims say openly that they will keep on fighting. Jihad for 1000 years is a commonly quoted theme

To me this means that no one should prepare for peace or work for peace. Kurds should not get a nation - they should fight Turkey forever.

Ultimately Muslim populations do best when they are subjugated under despotic leaders or powerful laws that keep them from fighting. Left to themselves they will only fight and kill.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by Singha »

when they are done coming down hard on minorities, muslims turn on each other usually unless one sect is very dominant like in KSA or Iran.
Falijee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10948
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by Falijee »

Petrol stations owned by Muslim family remove alcohol from shelves
A Muslim family has taken over hundreds of petrol stations across the United Kingdom and removed alcohol from its shelves.Following the takeover, brothers Zuber and Mohsin Issa ordered for the removal of alcohol from sale from all the stations.
This is in keeping with the Paki tradition of bringing in Malsi with every other aspect of life !
The petrol stations are part of the fast growing Euro Garages, which has 350 petrol stations across the country. The business worth £1.3billion and has embarked on an aggressive expansion plan which includes procurement of petrol stations previously run by the likes of British Petroleum, Esso and Shell.
Following the takeover, the new owners, who are one of Britain’s most successful Muslim families, have removed displays selling wine, beer and spirits.
While there have been suggestions that the ban was enforced for religious reasons, the company said it did not think it was ethical to sell alcohol to people who are driving.
Euro Garages has a partnership with a several household name brands, including Spar, Greggs, Burger King, Subway and Starbucks.
Considerable loss of sales and profit due to the decision of banning alcohol has not stalled the success of the company.
Now, just wait for the "boycotts" to kick in :mrgreen:
The decision sparked conversation across social media.
member_29325
BRFite
Posts: 542
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by member_29325 »

The IS sympathizers on social media are a very cunning bunch, like this one:
@LibyaLiberty
how hard is it to recruit jihadis to fight against the gut wrenching murder of innocent children? i see this, & I have to say, not hard.
The same blaming western govts. for creation of jihadis and pretending that Islam is not at fault, while simultaneously play acting the part of "secular liberal". You can't really pin them down, but the undercurrent of providing excuses for the actions of ISIS is a constant, which dumping on everyone else for "creating the conditions" for ISIS. A new version of the "root cause of islamic terrorism".
i can't RT them, because they're just too harrowing, too graphic, too awful. but you should know they exist.
This is with reference to Russian air strikes on ISIS camps in Syria in the past couple of days. No similar mention of the brutality meted out by ISIS to others.

And while on this topic, this quote by Sam Harris is also a good description of the tribe known as "sickulars" in India who have co-opted the word "secularism" to mean their own version of bigotry.
SamHarris wrote: According to Greenwald and the rest of the regressive Left, one can criticize religion in general, but any special focus on Islam must be motivated by bigotry or “Islamophobia.” And on that assumption, many of these people think it’s fair to slander and demonize anyone who does focus on Islam—even a true Muslim reformer like Maajid Nawaz. Maajid is a former Islamist, who now runs a counter-extremist think tank in the UK. And yet for merely entering into a dialogue with me about the prospects of spreading secular, liberal values in the Muslim world, he was branded a “native informant” and a “porch monkey” by Greenwald’s colleague at The Intercept, Murtaza Hussain, and a “lapdog” by Reza Aslan’s employee, Nathan Lean. These people are simply desperate to shut down dialogue on what is fast becoming the most important political and moral question of our time. Everything they do in this area is dishonest and destructive.
and
SamHarris wrote: On the problems of the multicultural left:

These people are part of what has been termed the “regressive Left” – pseudo-liberals who are so blinded by identity politics that they reliably take the side of a backward mob over one of its victims. Rather than protect individual women, apostates, intellectuals, cartoonists, novelists, and true liberals from the intolerance of religious imbeciles, they protect these theocrats from criticism.
link
member_29089
BRFite
Posts: 112
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by member_29089 »

In Pune, India a rag-picker boy was killed by 3 muslims because he was a Hindu. This news should not be forgotten simply because Burkha Dutt will not do a program on it.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... was-hindu/
sankum
BRFite
Posts: 1150
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 21:45

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by sankum »

Shiv,

Good explanation of how an Islamic society is.

Underdeveloped, feudal which can be kept in complete control only under a tyrant.

A moderate and progressive Muslim will keep quiet for the fear of getting killed and the brain washing of the children will only allow them to grow up in blind faith and not see reasons.

The change can be brought in India if political parties stop appeasement of Muslim bigots and instead promote moderates. Stop financing of madrasas and haj and instead spend the money in giving modern free education to Muslim children.

India as a moderate tolerant society with 8-9% growth for next 30 years to be a developed nation by 2045 and a uniform civil code can bring about a change though a lunatic fringe will always remain to create trouble.
member_19686
BRFite
Posts: 1330
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by member_19686 »

sankum wrote:Shiv,

Good explanation of how an Islamic society is.

Underdeveloped, feudal which can be kept in complete control only under a tyrant.

A moderate and progressive Muslim will keep quiet for the fear of getting killed and the brain washing of the children will only allow them to grow up in blind faith and not see reasons.

The change can be brought in India if political parties stop appeasement of Muslim bigots and instead promote moderates. Stop financing of madrasas and haj and instead spend the money in giving modern free education to Muslim children.

India as a moderate tolerant society with 8-9% growth for next 30 years to be a developed nation by 2045 and a uniform civil code can bring about a change though a lunatic fringe will always remain to create trouble.
France & other developed Euro countries have UCC, doesn't seem to be helping much.
A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12340
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by A_Gupta »

Sam Harris (via above posted links):
... it’s impossible to be a true liberal without seeing shari’ah as a problem.
member_29325
BRFite
Posts: 542
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by member_29325 »

Before fixing civil laws, Indian criminal laws need to be enforced. India's law enforcement needs to improve first -- all these youtube videos of muslim thugs intimidating policemen for ticketing muslim youth in Bangalore and elsewhere is a sign of what the weakest link is. Any oiseaule who threatens to beat up policemen if the policemen enforces the law on other muslims, should be under the care of the Indian Govt. for obstructing justice, unlike now, when the policeman has to submit to the islamist thug's nonsense because he cannot expect the system (political and justice) to actually back him up, or protect him religious mobs howling for his blood. But the Supreme and High Courts and state politics treat policemen like their security guard -- these would punishable offences against the state in most countries.
A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12340
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by A_Gupta »

Surasena wrote: France & other developed Euro countries have UCC, doesn't seem to be helping much.
UCC is necessary, but not sufficient. IMO, Euro countries generally don't treat secular Muslims as true and complete equals. Given the antipathy the orthodox Muslim has for the secular Muslim, this leaves the secular Muslim in Europe as dhobi ka kutta, na ghar ka, na ghaat ka - he has only a lesser place in society. This is a very hard position to be in.

I think India is capable of avoiding this mistake.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 24 Jan 2016 20:31, edited 1 time in total.
member_29325
BRFite
Posts: 542
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by member_29325 »

^^ Good point. the govt. must back liberal muslims and muslim apostates to the hilt...but first the regressive amendments to the Indian constitution which makes offending religious sentiments as punishable crime needs to go. As long as that law is in place, the islamists will always have the upper hand -- they already claim to be offended by anything and anyone that does not conform to their bigoted worldview.
sankum
BRFite
Posts: 1150
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 21:45

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by sankum »

UCC is necessary for the Indian citizen must be defined not by any religion but by the nation.
JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7128
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by JE Menon »

>>IMO, Euro countries generally don't treat secular Muslims as true and complete equals.

How so, do you mean by law? If so, that's explicitly not the case. I'm curious to know what you mean exactly.
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12216
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by Vayutuvan »

Switzerland limiting number of mosques is one example that comes to mind. Oh, then there is Germany where Christians gave to pay extra 8% tax to the govt. for upkeep of churches. Is the same tax levied on Muslims for the upkeep of mosques? Most probably not. Are they allowed to build mosques following the proper zoning laws?
JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7128
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by JE Menon »

That limiting was not random. There was a referendum. Which is how the Swiss decide what is acceptable in their society. In Germany, you can opt not to pay the church by withdrawing from it, and claiming to be an atheist. If you want to belong to the church, you must pay. If Muslims want to build mosques they must get the proper permissions.

As far as I know no tax is levied on Muslims for upkeep of mosques, but there are numerous other government regulations that all places of worship must adhere to. The idea that Muslims citizens are kept down in European societies is broadly not true. Are there exceptions, yes. Do the natives look at them as aliens? The older generations do to some extent. The young not, for the most part - although that has been changing over the last few years. In fact, Muslims living in Europe and India have it much better than they could ever have in any Islamic country in terms of the human rights and protections provided by law.

But none of this addresses the claim that "Euro countries generally don't treat secular Muslims as true and complete equals". No country treats even native citizens as "true and complete equals". But assuming what is meant is that the Christian citizens are treated better than secular Muslims, I'm wondering what is the basis of that claim.
member_29325
BRFite
Posts: 542
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by member_29325 »

Switzerland's move came against the background of the swiss muslims demanding that the symbol of the cross on the Swiss flag was offensive to muslims and Islam, in 2012, and demanded that it be changed to something "less offensive". This rankled native swiss peoples enough that they had a referendum that put an end to all mosque construction in switzerland that would mar the landscape (no muslims spires etc) and told off the swiss muslim community that they better get used to swiss heritage and culture. The saudi islamist Tareq Ramadan is a swiss citizen and is a central figure in selling islamism in Europe and elsewhere, where "multiculturalism" is in vogue.
JwalaMukhi
BRFite
Posts: 1635
Joined: 28 Mar 2007 18:27

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by JwalaMukhi »

sankum wrote:Shiv,

Good explanation of how an Islamic society is.

Underdeveloped, feudal which can be kept in complete control only under a tyrant.

A moderate and progressive Muslim will keep quiet for the fear of getting killed and the brain washing of the children will only allow them to grow up in blind faith and not see reasons.
It gets better than that. It is not close ended system where this is contained. It is open-ended.

The so called moderate and progressives plead innocence and seek asylums from the tyranny in dar-ul-islam and spread out into regions that are dar-ul-harb. Remember the sufis. In the regions of dar-ul-harb, they form the softening and disarming feature to fool the pagans. Then in due course, in the newly established conclaves in dar-ul-harb, there will be very fundamentalist and virulent islamists from whom again the so-called moderates and progressives need protection and asylum in virgin dar-ul-harb territories. Rinse,repeat a few cycles and in few generations more dar-ul-harb turns into dar-ul-islam. If anyone has mastered the technique of good cop - bad cop strategy to spread their ideology far and wide, Islam wins handsomely. There is no equivalent comparison to this optimized strategy that is effectively leveraged by anyone other than Islamists. Have to give it to the ingenuity. Duniya conquest by hook or crook.
Last edited by JwalaMukhi on 24 Jan 2016 23:05, edited 1 time in total.
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21233
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by Prem »

Surasena wrote:Shiv, India as a moderate tolerant society with 8-9% growth for next 30 years to be a developed nation by 2045 and a uniform civil code can bring about a change though a lunatic fringe will always remain to create trouble
France & other developed Euro countries have UCC, doesn't seem to be helping much.
Indian politics won't allow UCC for long. Best option at this point is to improve the numbers in internals security apparatus. We will need at least 3-4 Million well equipped, multilayer police to maintain peace , piece by piece and not let indians face 14 th century dilemmas, issues again.
member_29325
BRFite
Posts: 542
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by member_29325 »

The regressive left

Very good video narrating how the "left-wing" pushes islamist regressivism in liberal societies using "cultural relativism" and "islamophobia" to shut down all debate about the violence of islamists in such societies. These guys are the real enemies of muslim liberals who try to bring some sanity into the islamism debate and occupy significant space in western media and Indian english media.

Rips the mask off "moderate muslims" and "feminists" who support islamists and their crimes against women, and labels anyone who asks questions as a "islamophobe" "racist" "bigot". Applies just as much to India's "secular" morons like Barkha Dutt, Mani Shankar Iyer and the rest of the fools in claiming to be "Indian intellectuals".

Article in spectator making a similar point about UK's left.

link
Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8441
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-2014)

Post by Peregrine »

Glory, Glory Hallelujah!

Protection of non-Muslims summit to be held in Morocco

Muslims scholars from all over the world are meeting in Morocco to discuss protection of non-Muslims living in Islamic countries.

The conference is expected to gather more than 300 Islamic leaders from Muslim countries, including Iraq, Turkey, and Egypt.

The aim of this summit is to reaffirm the rights of religious minorities through releasing a new declaration rooted in Islamic Law emphasising on protection of non-Muslims groups within an Islamic community.

“The prophet was religiously persecuted, so he knew first-hand what it was to experience religious persecution,” said Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, co-founder of Zaytuna College, the first Muslim liberal arts college in the US.

“His religion ensured the rights of religious minorities.

“We want to counter the idea that Muslims and non-Muslims can’t live together. This is not who we are or who we want to be.”

Non-Muslims representatives from Vatican and religious figures from Hinduism, Sikhism and Judaism have also been invited.
Cheers Image
Falijee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10948
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by Falijee »

Mentally Disturbed Toronto Girl Now Missing - probably dead- After Father replaced "Islam" as alternative to medication :shock:
A young woman whose father encouraged her to study Islam as an alternative to medication to treat her bipolar disorder and schizophrenia is missing.
Taneesha Brown’s struggle with mental illness has caused her family concern on several occasions in recent years, but those who know and love the 25-year-old now fear for her life after she walked out into the cold from her aunt’s Markham home Tuesday night.
“She told my sister she just wanted to go outside for fresh air and she just took off,” Uriel Brown told a news conference Thursday of his daughter’s disappearance.
The distraught father and Taneesha’s brother, Kevin Mazerolle, pleaded for her to contact a family member and let them know she’s OK.
Taneesha’s relatives recalled her once taking off with no shoes on a winter night in Sudbury.Uriel said he introduced his daughter to the teachings of Islam in hopes it would help her avoid taking medication.
The Toronto police should find some cause under the Criminal Code to charge the father for negligence etc !
But her bipolar disorder and paranoid schizophrenia only worsened.
York Regional Police Det. Mark Charlebois said Taneesha left her aunt’s home on Castlemore Ave., near McCowan Rd. and Major Mackenzie Blvd., around 10:30 p.m.
The mercury dipped to about -13C Tuesday night, not including the wind chill factor.
It’s believed she was wearing a traditional Muslim outfit consisting of a white, knee-length dashiki, white pants and a white hijab on her head. She’s about 5-foot-5, 122 lbs. and was carrying a black purse.
Anyone with information is urged to call police at 1-866-876-5423, ext.7541, or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477).
A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12340
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by A_Gupta »

The Church tax is quite common all over Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax
A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12340
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by A_Gupta »

In fact, Muslims living in Europe and India have it much better than they could ever have in any Islamic country in terms of the human rights and protections provided by law.
The same can be said of African Americans in America versus many places in Africa. So I say, yes, JEM; but that does not mean equality.
A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12340
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by A_Gupta »

^^^ India also needs to get rid of section 295A of the Indian Penal Code. Yes, it will cause some Hindu groups some takleef; but it is the law behind which the Abrahamic minorities hide by limiting freedom of speech.
RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5620
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by RoyG »

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ India also needs to get rid of section 295A of the Indian Penal Code. Yes, it will cause some Hindu groups some takleef; but it is the law behind which the Abrahamic minorities hide by limiting freedom of speech.
Agree. This is a low hanging fruit which can easily be plucked.
JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7128
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by JE Menon »

A_Gupta,

Yes the Church tax is common for Christians. It is clear in the link which you provided. Not for others. In fact, a case could be made that it is the Christians who are being discriminated against (rather reminiscent of Hindu complaints in India about unwanted special treatment).

>>The same can be said of African Americans in America versus many places in Africa. So I say, yes, JEM; but that does not mean equality.

Like I said in the very next sentence above:

----But none of this addresses the claim that "Euro countries generally don't treat secular Muslims as true and complete equals". No country treats even native citizens as "true and complete equals". But assuming what is meant is that the Christian citizens are treated better than secular Muslims, I'm wondering what is the basis of that claim.---

Your claim was very specific, that Euro countries treat Christian citizens better than secular Muslims. I was wondering about the basis for that claim. I have seen no real evidence for it in life (some 30 years in and all over Europe), and on the contrary precisely the opposite. There are people who are by no means "secular" as a Hindu or a secular European might understand it who are peppered all over state institutions, semi and para-statal institutions and NGOs all over the EU.

In fact, I just spent about three weeks in northern Europe with someone close, and a number of colleagues in the agency she works for are of Turkish and Moroccan origin, observant of many rites and rituals and do not hide it, but not always of clothing strictures; in short staunch Muslims. Don't get me wrong, the type we might refer to as secular are basically like Christians or Hindus in Europe, who basically keep their faith out of the public space except during festive seasons. This is a government run organisation of the type we do not have in India (that I know of), directly responsible and linked to the equivalent of the Home Ministry with an information focus and clearance requirements.

I asked because I thought I may have missed something in that regard, maybe a report with details or a survey or something. These things are always useful.

Having said that the mood is definitely changing, and it is obvious - especially among the middle-aged and those above 20 I would say. I would say, therefore, that life for people of Indian origin is going to get more difficult (mainly from a social angle) - as people cannot differentiate between an Arab/Pakistani/Indian. It will become necessary to identify oneself quickly in conversations, etc. going forward I imagine.
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12216
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by Vayutuvan »

A_Gupta wrote:The Church tax is quite common all over Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax
Who would have thunk it? I was under the impression that it is Germany only thing. Wow, bloody wow. Germanic 8% is quite steep. Some kind if chart/table is in orgder I guess to compare various European countries on their church tax via a vis the standard of living differential.
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12216
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by Vayutuvan »

JEM, I put it to you that the christian tax is dicriminatory. People who are christian would claim that they are not to save a few talons of silver thus creating several million pseudo-doubting toms.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 25 Jan 2016 10:28, edited 1 time in total.
JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7128
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by JE Menon »

>>JEM, I put it to you that the christian tax is dicriminatory.

Against whom VT? The Muslims? That seems to be the claim...

Frankly, in India the situation is worse, regular tax paid by Hindus, Christians and others is used to subsidise the Haj. So that is discrimination against Muslims how? I'm trying to get my head around this line of thinking because the pseudo-seculars are exactly the ones who will bring it up at some point down the road if they haven't already. Good to have some counters.
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12216
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by Vayutuvan »

There is no tax for being a Hindu. Hindus deposit money and gold into tirupati hundi willingly. They don't have to resulting in zero subsidy to haj, right? How many Hindus would declare themselves nonhindu if there is tax?my guess is very few.

Sorry, now I get what you are saying.

On the other hand it can be argued that the tax is islamophobic unless the mney collected subsidizes haj as well as building mosques. The argument can be extended to say that it is non christian phobic.
JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7128
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by JE Menon »

It is only Islamophobic if the Muslims are paying the tax too, and the common pool does not subsidize as per contribution or as per the fine points of that particular law. Otherwise, there's no case. That is the situation now. Most important of all is that it is personal choice based, not imposed. The link which A_Gupta provided is useful in that it explains the situation simply. In fact, this is apparently a pre-Christian tradition when local tribal chieftains the area were responsible for the upkeep of places of worship.

As for how many Hindus would declare themselves non-Hindu if there was a tax, your guess is as good as mine. But I can clearly see a situation where everyone would declare themselves non-Hindu but Sanatana Dharmi and carry on as usual, minus tax payment. They will themselves fund their local temples. This is happening now anyways, the funding I mean.
member_19686
BRFite
Posts: 1330
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by member_19686 »

Bilal Farooqi
‏@bilalfqi
Hindu child abducted, converted & raped in Pakistan, court hands her over to husband/rapist

http://www.thenews.com.pk/print/93238-C ... iage-valid

Image

https://twitter.com/bilalfqi/status/691104544739172352
Court declares 16-year-old converted girl’s marriage valid

January 24, 2016

SHC allows Shabana who converted to Islam from Hinduism and married a Muslim man to live with her husband

Karachi

The Sindh High Court declared on Saturday the marriage of a 16-year-old girl, who had converted to Islam and married a Muslim man in Nawabshah, valid under the Mohammadan law and allowed her to live with her husband.

The directives came on a petition filed by the girl, Shabana, who sought the quashment of a kidnapping case against her spouse, Ali Gul.

She submitted that she had willingly converted to Islam on October 5 and married Gul, but her family was annoyed over her move and registered a case against her spouse.

She sought the quashment of the case and protection against harassment at the hand of her family.

The court had earlier observed that the petitioner seemed to be a minor and ordered that she be shifted to a shelter home and a medical board formed to determine her age.

The board was of the opinion that girl is between 18 and 19 years old however the court did not express satisfaction on its report. It had directed the Civil Hospital Medical Karachi superintendent to include a senior gynecologist in the medical board.

The new board suggested that girl was between 15 and 16 years.

The counsel for the girl’s father submitted that the petitioner was a minor and her marriage with Gul was illegal in accordance with Section 4 of the Hindu Guardianship Act 1956.

The court observed that the contention of the respondent had no force as the petitioner had attained the age of puberty as was evident from the medical board’s report and she had voluntarily converted to Islam without any pressure.

The court observed that it had already been held by the Supreme Court that a girl having attained the age of puberty could marry a person of her choice and such a marriage was valid under the Mohammadan Law.

The court, after hearing the arguments of the counsel, observed that petitioner had voluntarily converted to Islam on October 4 and her nikah was solemnised on October 5 in accordance with the Mohammadan Law with her spouse and as such she was entitled to live with her spouse.

The court allowed the petition of Shabana and directed the shelter home to release her. The court directed the investigation officer to submit a copy of its judgement before the magistrate concerned and obtain the relevant order with regard to the disposal of the case.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/print/93238-C ... xJogY.dpuf
Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12216
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by Vayutuvan »

JEM, somehow the whole thing doesn't seem right. Let us say German Muslims start building lots and lots of mosques. What will islamophobic atheists do? They can fund churches without declaring themselves christian. They might as well declare themselves christian to show n increase in Christianity. I presume Germany is Catholic. So ones they get divorced, they cannot be participate in certain rituals of the church. Both religions are intolerant is my point. Unfortunately Hindus are tolerant to a fault but that is the philosophy the religion - I know I am using a very loose term - is based on. You take that away you take the foundation of sanatana dharma. Question finally is whether there is islamophobic abroad or not. All the evidence points to phobia.
JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7128
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by JE Menon »

VT, boss you are arguing about something else. Please see what I'm requesting from A_Gupta. He was referring to discrimination against secular Muslims. I'm asking if there is any data basis for it, or basically just a feeling he has.

I don't even agree there is something called Islamophobia, if by that is meant an irrational condition of the non-Muslim mind. The fear of Islam is very valid given what its adherents are saying and doing in its name.

In the above post you are going on a hypothetical tangent "Lets say German Muslims start building lots and lots of mosque. What will Islamophobic atheists do?" What? Germany is both Catholic and Protestant and they have a number of adherents of other faiths and a lot of atheists too.

Sure, all absolutist religions are intolerant at their core. But that is not what is being discussed.
Falijee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10948
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by Falijee »

'Secret wife' of Saudi prince reveals monarchy’s mysteries (RT INTERVIEW)
Janan Harb, 68, has quite a life story to tell: she says she was the former Saudi king's secret wife. Harb, a Palestinian-born Christian, says she converted to Islam back in 1968 to marry the monarch.
Harb now lives in London and is a scientologist. A film is being made based on her life in the Saudi royal family. Harb is also planning to publish an autobiography by the end of 2016.
The woman spoke to RT about her first encounter with the prince.
“There was a big party for the Palestinians and the Lebanese, a Christmas party. The prince was the minister of interior at that time, he was invited, and that’s how we met,” she said.
For the next three years, Harb lived in the prince’s palace as his secret spouse.
“We had a lovely life [for] the first two years. It was a very beautiful life. But the third year was quite tragic, because it was taken seriously, and his brothers got involved.”
In 1971, Harb was deported to the UK.
“His brothers were grooming him to become a king, and didn’t accept him having a Palestinian Christian wife. I was deported without his knowledge,” she told RT.
She has since successfully sued the late king's son, winning a historic UK High Court case.
The late king’s son has been ordered to pay Harb £12 million (US$17 million), according to a deal that was struck with the king before his death.
Harb told RT she has turned to the media in the hope that the Saudi royal family will face up to its duties.
“Every time you confront the Saudis, they tell you – instead of asking or finding the truth – ‘Oh! Maybe she was a prostitute, maybe she is a money digger’… Since he [the former king] didn’t take responsibility for his father’s reputation, he bears the blame himself.”
Saudi nationals are known to have a history of tricky relations with the UK legal system.
Just this week, one Sheikh managed to escape divorce payments in the UK after he was appointed a UN envoy by a small Caribbean nation, therefore receiving diplomatic immunity. (e.g. of "money diplomacy" at work here!)
Sheikh Walid Juffali, whose fortune from his family’s business interests is estimated at £4 billion, faced a divorce suit in London’s High Court from his second wife, Christina Estrada, a former Pirelli calendar girl, after he secretly married a Lebanese television presenter in 2012.
Last month, a Saudi millionaire was cleared of raping a teenager after he claimed he may have penetrated her accidentally after tripping and falling on her.
Saudi Arabia is notorious for its strict interpretation of Sharia law, with alcohol and gambling banned and women not allowed to drive.(even with this Sharia BS, there are double standards involved )
Women’s rights in the country have often been in the spotlight: a few months ago, a Saudi woman posted footage of her husband sexually abusing their maid. However, it was the wife who was facing a year in jail in the end, due to the Saudi law on revenge videos.
With the price of oil falling,and fighting a useless war in their backyard, it will be sooner rather than later that they heading towards "financial bankruptcy" and the subsequent loss of their influence in the world :mrgreen:
arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by arun »

X Posted from the “Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan” thread to the STFUP and Islamism threads.

Cases of the practice of the doctrine of “Mā malakat aymānukum” or "What your Right Hands Possess” that the principal Mohammadden text, the Koran aka Quran, permits Mohammadden’s to take Non-Mohammadden females as Sex Slaves?

Raymond Ibrahim who converted from Mohammaddenism to Christism in an article titled “Pakistan: "Christian Girls Are Only Meant for the Pleasure of Muslim Men" which was published by the Gatestone Institute:

Pakistan: "Christian Girls Are Only Meant for the Pleasure of Muslim Men"
arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by arun »

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

When Mohammadden religion driven practises cloister away women in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, it is inevitable that deviant paedophilic homosexual rape crops up:

Boy gang-raped in Mansehra

This deviant behaviour is no one off event in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Similar incidents of paedophilic homosexual rape have been reported over the past couple of years or so. Indeed I suspect that the incidents of this nature, by standards of prevalence of deviant behaviour, are quite widespread in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

7-year-old boy dies after being gang raped by 'influentials' in Bahawalnagar

Lahore: 6-year-old boy killed after rape

Sexual assault: Boy allegedly raped by three men

Crime against children: Five-year-old boy raped

Girl, boy gang raped in Hafizabad

Gruesome crime: Kindergarten boy ‘gang-raped’ by principal, others
arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by arun »

Suspected Mohammadden suicide bombers kill 28 in Cameroon:

Cameroon: 4 suicide attackers kill at least 28 people
arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis (9-8-20

Post by arun »

Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden religion based sectarian violence as Sunni Mohammadden group Islamic State aka IS aka ISIS aka ISIL targets Alawite Mohammadden sect dominated forces in Syria.

Despite having the word “Islamic” in their group title, the much touted claims by adherents of Mohammaddenism that theirs is the Religion of Peace seems not to have been understood by IS:

22 dead, over 100 wounded in ISIS-claimed double bombing in Homs, Syria
Post Reply