LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11209
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gagan » 13 Feb 2016 21:35

IAF has upgraded 3D radar and Aerostat based AESA radar coverage 24x7. In addition there are AWACS and other EW birds in the air from time to time.
There are also surveillance drones and fighters in the air very frequently.

This multilayered coverage is better than what > 95% nations can put up.

Still there is a potential for gaps...

Suresh S
BRFite
Posts: 790
Joined: 25 Dec 2008 22:19

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Suresh S » 13 Feb 2016 22:10

SaiK wrote:We can't install radar systems just for the local enemy alone. The same land perhaps may be used by khans for their raptors and commanches



True.Now someone is thinking

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36416
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 14 Feb 2016 17:58

Read it completely

Fighters for the IAF: Creating paths to a dead-end
http://www.stratpost.com/fighters-for-t ... a-dead-end

Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1183
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gyan » 14 Feb 2016 18:15

Aircraft at 50 feet do not become invisible, only thing is that they will be able to come much closer till they are picked up by the radar. Also flying at 50 feet, the aircraft range may get reduced by more than 50%, speed by 30% and it may run into terrain feature, so it is not an easy task.

Kakarat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2123
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kakarat » 14 Feb 2016 23:22

I think Israel and India should jointly develop a fifth-generation LCA MKIII (or ALCA) as follow on project of LCA Tejas MKII based on the experience from it. This should be in parallel with AMCA so that we will have fifth-generation aircrafts in all Light, Medium & Heavy category

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7415
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby disha » 14 Feb 2016 23:58

SaiK wrote:Read it completely

Fighters for the IAF: Creating paths to a dead-end
http://www.stratpost.com/fighters-for-t ... a-dead-end


No need to waste your bandwidth on the above article. I read it and could not go past the para where it compared LCA with aircrafts for kamikazes. End of story.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19840
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Karan M » 15 Feb 2016 00:00

+1. Some idiot under a pseudonym making tons of claims without an iota of actual details around any of the programs.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54822
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 15 Feb 2016 03:40

Its not about an aircraft but creating an aircraft industry. yes language is unrestrained hence anonymous.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36416
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 15 Feb 2016 05:45

shouldn't there be legal guidelines on identity masking or anonymity? he is marking territories like a pseudo hyena (he or a clan?) inside a larger and stronger lion's boundaries.

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7415
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby disha » 15 Feb 2016 06:05

ramana wrote:Its not about an aircraft but creating an aircraft industry. yes language is unrestrained hence anonymous.


Sir., the anonymous writer may have very valid points., but writing anonymously in a 'strat post' article with unrestrained language is not worth the effort to write or even read it completely.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36416
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 15 Feb 2016 06:09

disha, sometimes not worthy of reading articles must be read completely to understand the pattern of writing.

deejay
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4008
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby deejay » 15 Feb 2016 07:02

Karan M wrote:+1. Some idiot under a pseudonym making tons of claims without an iota of actual details around any of the programs.


I am sure we remember the StratPost discussions on MMRCA, where they discussed LCA without anyone from ADA or HAL there to counter. StratPost says this author's article caused those discussions.

That Kamikaze comment is what helps understand biases and hence for all the valid points, if any, the author has lost the attention of all Indian manufacturers and also those who support SDRE efforts.

I am sure he is deeply disappointed that the famous 'under 30 tons so as to exclude the Su 30' MMRCA got truncated from 120 to 36. May his disappointment grow with even these 36 being scrapped. Bleddy 80's aircraft in 2020's price and we have to keep buying expensive French Eau de Cologne to keep the scrap flying properly dainted -painted and looking oh so petite.

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11209
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gagan » 15 Feb 2016 07:43

I don't understand the need to go in for another 4th gen fighter at a stage when we are at the cusp if 5th gen fighters. And at that an exhorbidantly priced system! And one that is twin engined too!
Don't we have too many twin engined planes already hain ji?
Why saars? This MMRCA is yet another left over baggage from congi days, they must have salivated at the kickback potential, but quickly developed cold feet looking at the eventual price.
The hash job they've made with the scorpene and the T-90 purchases, buying only incomplete systems to show that the prices were low, then quietly tendering later for upgrades, actually turned out to be super expensive! Plus it prolly has confounded the payments so that kickbacks can be better hidden now.
I wonder what was the logic in showing indeginous production in some of the scorpene's components, while they were being imported after all.

member_29245
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 59
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_29245 » 15 Feb 2016 08:15

shiv wrote:
Harin wrote:Our AF station in mt Abu has a radar there which can pickup paf planes at 100 ft altitude when they take off from Karachi air base

Fair enough. This is why attacking Indian planes flew at night at 50 feet altitude in earlier wars. How is Indian radar coverage for planes flying nap of earth at 50 feet?

Planes can take off in pairs, and one climbs to become radar visible at >100 feet while the other stays low.


Please look up the altitude of mt Abu

Then that of Karachi

Then check the topographical map from my Abu to Karachi

You will get your answer

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2016 12:39

Harin wrote:Please look up the altitude of mt Abu

Then that of Karachi

Then check the topographical map from my Abu to Karachi

You will get your answer

Thanks for the hint. My answer is that it is perfectly feasible for aircraft to stay at 50 feet and hide behind terrain features like low hillocks, dunes and rolling countryside to avoid radar detection until they are within striking range of targets near the Indian border.

member_29245
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 59
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_29245 » 15 Feb 2016 14:20

shiv wrote:
Harin wrote:Please look up the altitude of mt Abu

Then that of Karachi

Then check the topographical map from my Abu to Karachi

You will get your answer

Thanks for the hint. My answer is that it is perfectly feasible for aircraft to stay at 50 feet and hide behind terrain features like low hillocks, dunes and rolling countryside to avoid radar detection until they are within striking range of targets near the Indian border.


Near the Indian border agrees but look up the landscape

There are no such features for Mike's on both sides only desert

Hint rann utsav

Desert of kutch on Indian side extending for Mike's into Pakistan and iaf fab - forward air base / advanced landing ground in kutch naliya

BTW the terrain is perfectly OK for SAFE low level flight

The altitude of Abu is 1220 m. With highest peak well above that and that of Karachi is 8 m

The distance is 560/km

deejay
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4008
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby deejay » 15 Feb 2016 14:34

Naliya - ALG?

Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3727
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Vipul » 15 Feb 2016 19:21

Taking off.

For an indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) disparaged by the Indian Air Force brass as “overweight”, “underpowered”, “obsolete”, “a three-legged cheetah” and, in technical terms, as a plane that “cannot fly without telemetry, pull more than 6G or an angle-of-attack (AoA) greater than 20 degrees” and “with an air intake that starves the engine”, is supposedly afflicted with “53 identified shortfalls”, and fails to meet the “minimum air staff requirements (ASRs)”, the Tejas, entirely unreported by the Indian media, performed phenomenally well at the recent Bahrain International Air Show. It has silenced the naysayers. The minimum that this success ought to do is get the government to reconsider the deal with France, because the fact is Tejas’ future will be inversely affected by the Rafale deal. If one is up, the other is out.

The LCA’s composites-built airframe and small size enhance its stealth features, translating into a small radar signature and the greatest difficulty for enemy aircraft to detect it. Bahrain proved that fighting quality. There can be no complaints.

Price-wise, India is willing to pay only $7 billion, France expects $11 bn. To put these figures in perspective, the Rafale programme was originally pegged at $10 bn for 126 aircraft, including transfer of technology (ToT). So how come, after reducing the demand for Rafales by two-thirds and deducting 18 per cent of the cost as value of ToT, the new price tag exceeds the original cost by a billion dollars? Worse, Paris is disinclined to offer sovereign guarantee regarding the delivery timeline and spares supply but is prepared to provide a letter from President Francois Hollande, which is worth nothing. Yet, the defence ministry is reconciled to forking out Rs 63,000 crore for 36 Rafales. This works out to Rs 1,750 crore or nearly $270 million per aircraft — a sum that could fetch three Tejas or two Sukhoi-30 MKIs, rated the best combat aircraft in the world.

Tejas, a 4.5 generation aircraft like Rafale, has always been underfunded by government and undermined by the IAF with periodic rewriting of ASRs.

For an indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) disparaged by the Indian Air Force brass as “overweight”, “underpowered”, “obsolete”, “a three-legged cheetah” and, in technical terms, as a plane that “cannot fly without telemetry, pull more than 6G or an angle-of-attack (AoA) greater than 20 degrees” and “with an air intake that starves the engine”, is supposedly afflicted with “53 identified shortfalls”, and fails to meet the “minimum air staff requirements (ASRs)”, the Tejas, entirely unreported by the Indian media, performed phenomenally well at the recent Bahrain International Air Show. It has silenced the naysayers. The minimum that this success ought to do is get the government to reconsider the deal with France, because the fact is Tejas’ future will be inversely affected by the Rafale deal. If one is up, the other is out.

The LCA’s composites-built airframe and small size enhance its stealth features, translating into a small radar signature and the greatest difficulty for enemy aircraft to detect it. Bahrain proved that fighting quality. There can be no complaints.

Price-wise, India is willing to pay only $7 billion, France expects $11 bn. To put these figures in perspective, the Rafale programme was originally pegged at $10 bn for 126 aircraft, including transfer of technology (ToT). So how come, after reducing the demand for Rafales by two-thirds and deducting 18 per cent of the cost as value of ToT, the new price tag exceeds the original cost by a billion dollars? Worse, Paris is disinclined to offer sovereign guarantee regarding the delivery timeline and spares supply but is prepared to provide a letter from President Francois Hollande, which is worth nothing. Yet, the defence ministry is reconciled to forking out Rs 63,000 crore for 36 Rafales. This works out to Rs 1,750 crore or nearly $270 million per aircraft — a sum that could fetch three Tejas or two Sukhoi-30 MKIs, rated the best combat aircraft in the world.

Tejas, a 4.5 generation aircraft like Rafale, has always been underfunded by government and undermined by the IAF with periodic rewriting of ASRs. Three years ago, for instance, a mid-air refuelling probe was included, necessitating aircraft redesign that cost time, money and delays in the certification and induction cycles.

Scarcity of money is the real problem and requires making hard choices. Should the Indian government commit Rs. 63,000 crore to the Tejas and Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) programmes rather than sustaining the French aviation industry, it will signal serious intent, bring the streamlined Defence Production Policy-2016 guidelines into play, permitting the DRDO to transfer source codes and flight control laws to Indian private-sector companies, incentivise small- and medium-scale technology innovation companies comprising an Indian mittelstand to take root, motivate foreign suppliers of components and assemblies that currently comprise 70 per cent of Tejas to manufacture these in India and, conjoined to a policy pushing its export, germinate a viable, comprehensively capable, aerospace sector-led Indian defence industrial growth. This infusion of funds will fast-track the synergistic development of follow-on versions of Tejas, its navalised variant, along with the AMCA, and the fifth generation fighter project in partnership with Russia. It will be the cutting-edge of a “Made in India” policy showcasing indigenous capability.

With Rafale facing production problems — only eight aircraft were outputted in 2014 — all the contracted Rafales won’t be in IAF service before 2030. It is not the answer to India’s immediate need. A more economical solution that will also satisfy the IAF’s apparent craving for French aircraft is to procure the 30-plus upgraded Mirage 2000-9s the United Arab Emirates want to be rid of, and a third Mirage squadron (with 80 per cent of its life intact) available from Qatar. Infrastructure already exists to service and operate the Mirages. It will not complicate the logistics nightmare created by the diversity of combat aircraft in the IAF’s inventory, which Rafale’s entry will do.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 15 Feb 2016 20:43

Harin wrote:
Near the Indian border agrees but look up the landscape

There are no such features for Mike's on both sides only desert

Hint rann utsav

Desert of kutch on Indian side extending for Mike's into Pakistan and iaf fab - forward air base / advanced landing ground in kutch naliya

BTW the terrain is perfectly OK for SAFE low level flight

The altitude of Abu is 1220 m. With highest peak well above that and that of Karachi is 8 m

The distance is 560/km


Even terrain that varies in height by just 20-30 feet over distances of several km will appear like hills behind which a plane can "hide"

Remember that a radar at 1200 meters height is looking at Karachi (assume 0 meters/sea level) from 560,000 meters away. That makes a very long right angled triangle - like a triangle 1 meter high and 500 meters long making the arms of a right angle) At that angle of view even a 20 foot high dune or 30 foot high trees will hide planes flying as low as 50 feet. An AWACS would be better placed but even AWACS can find it difficult to pick up a plane from ground clutter. And if the enemy uses decoy aircraft that carry out feint attacks diverting attention of defenders towards others - low level attackers may get through and take out an important radar installation. If a radar is taken down, it will be attacked again very soon to make sure it is not repaired and a non working radar will make a repeat attack easier

Added later: another thing to recall is the curvature of the earth. For a radar at 1200 meters height the horizon is about 120 km away. Karachi is therefore well beyond the horizon of the Mount Abu radar. For a plane to be seen flying above Karachi it will have to reach some height that shows above the horizon. Any plane below that will be invisible

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4699
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 15 Feb 2016 21:27

Image

Image

Neela
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3679
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 15:05
Location: Spectator in the dossier diplomacy tennis match

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Neela » 15 Feb 2016 23:07

A little OT.
This reminded me of recent events during a business trip.
Colleagues were stuck in Heathrow because of heavy fog. Reason was that ATC was asking runway staff to check for aircraft in specific parts of the runway. Apparently, fog was so thick the Airport Radar reported aircraft on the runway.

I came back and checked Wiki. There is an Airpost Surveillance Radar which is meant for aircraft on the ground and for low altitudes.
This radar is specifically designed for aircraft in the terminal area.
There are two parts to it. Primary uses microwave but secondary sends queries to transponders which respond with ID and altitude.
An airport surveillance radar (ASR) is a radar system used at airports to detect and display the position of aircraft in the terminal area, the airspace around airports. The sophisticated systems at large airports consist of two different radar systems, the primary and secondary surveillance radar. The primary radar typically consists of a large rotating parabolic antenna that sweeps a vertical fan-shaped beam of microwaves around the airspace surrounding the airport which detects the position of aircraft. The secondary surveillance radar consists of a second rotating antenna, often mounted on the primary antenna, which interrogates the transponders of aircraft, which transmits back the aircraft's identification and altitude which is displayed on the radar screen next to the return from the primary radar.


End of little OT

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36416
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 16 Feb 2016 00:16

Vipul wrote:Taking off.

Tejas, a 4.5 generation aircraft like Rafale, has always been underfunded by government and undermined by the IAF with periodic rewriting of ASRs. Three years ago, for instance, a mid-air refuelling probe was included, necessitating aircraft redesign that cost time, money and delays in the certification and induction cycles.

....Indian government commit Rs. 63,000 crore to the Tejas and Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) programmes rather than sustaining the French aviation industry, it will signal serious intent, bring the streamlined Defence Production Policy-2016 guidelines into play, permitting the DRDO to transfer source codes and flight control laws to Indian private-sector companies, incentivise small- and medium-scale technology innovation companies comprising an Indian mittelstand to take root, motivate foreign suppliers of components and assemblies that currently comprise 70 per cent of Tejas to manufacture these in India and, conjoined to a policy pushing its export, germinate a viable, comprehensively capable, aerospace sector-led Indian defence industrial growth. This infusion of funds will fast-track the synergistic development of follow-on versions of Tejas, its navalised variant, along with the AMCA, and the fifth generation fighter project in partnership with Russia. It will be the cutting-edge of a “Made in India” policy showcasing indigenous capability.
....



The bolded part pretty much sums up what we are saying here. BK grabs a lot from here.

I dunno if DRDO will transfer source codes to CLAW. what is important is to get more private participate and slowly gain respect.

member_27581
BRFite
Posts: 230
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_27581 » 16 Feb 2016 00:29

^^^ actually we should be supportive of that... For a change media is peddling what is in national interest
.bk seems to be now bought in by the LCA and jingo in me is happy..

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36416
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 16 Feb 2016 00:44

The 54 Rafale M is not necessary, and he should canvas for NLCA for Vishal.

Should we say this? is it not logical?

member_27581
BRFite
Posts: 230
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_27581 » 16 Feb 2016 00:50

While not necessary it's very capable machine just like the other one... we'll be having an elaborate set of trials... And hopefully by that time nlca will be ready too... Let the poor chap earn some lifafa.... Even the noob like me believes that LCA has turned a corner or tight turn in last one year... Now we need to sort out the production issues.. And the engine part...

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36416
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 16 Feb 2016 00:58

marching in the right direction is must. proper checks and balances are necessary.. but we have to ensure no JNU types emit often here and there [none indicted here].

member_27581
BRFite
Posts: 230
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_27581 » 16 Feb 2016 01:07

I won't worry a whole lot about the jnu types.. They got a good serving in court today... Having seen them up and close.. Most have their ideological underpinnings to hash ciggs and chicks to look cool.. Few lathis behind the back and all the thoughts of Marx and Lenin go faster than they can't... I have a feeling that in their desperation these fringe elements are exposing them before they can be of actual use.. I see them as an extension of the pathankot attachcongress isi are exhausting their wwr

hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4832
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby hanumadu » 16 Feb 2016 01:08

Cross posting

hanumadu wrote:^Didn't they build thousands and thousands of \hastily designed, poorly tested planes and fly them with poorly trained pilots during world war 2? As an insurance, we should field at least some of our systems, even if they are half baked or far from perfect.


Singha wrote:in WW2 planes went from drafting board to full production in between 100-300 days depending on the vendor. ie from drawing -> proto -> flying testbed -> FOC. that is what urgency implies.

in the final offensives around berlin, the russians put in some 300 guns per km of frontage for the 5-10 km of width identified for breakouts and their general staff was still unsure and shivering if that was enough. "walls of fire" were unleashed by these firing as fast as possible together , and the screaming noises of the katyushas from the back.

some footage here

minimum apologetic deterrence is a oxymoron.


IAF should order 200 LCA as it is and go straight for LCA Mk2 without Mk1A. In fact, it should have done so long ago. Once Mk2 comes online, we can always sell the Mk1 to friendly countries.

Will
BRFite
Posts: 637
Joined: 28 Apr 2011 11:27

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Will » 16 Feb 2016 02:44

The 2 won't happen till 2025 if started today. That's why the need for the 1A.

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4699
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 16 Feb 2016 04:02

Will wrote:The 2 won't happen till 2025 if started today. That's why the need for the 1A.


IMO, Mk1A is basically a MLU of Mk1! All of those additional things in Mk.1A could have come about in smaller increments over Mk.1's 30-year service. At least that's what rest of the world (i.e. aerospace powerhouses) would have done ;)

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36416
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 16 Feb 2016 04:55

including IAF's favorites - MKI, Mig29 and Mirage

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 16 Feb 2016 06:23

though the jf17 is still going upgrades, full marks to TSP for assembling 60 of these already and putting into squadron service.
60 of anything beats 0 by a long long way in any emergency.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36416
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 16 Feb 2016 06:34

Singha wrote:though the jf17 is still going upgrades, full marks to TSP for assembling 60 of these already and putting into squadron service.
60 of anything beats 0 by a long long way in any emergency.


now watch the DDM space how they smack LCA

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Surya » 16 Feb 2016 06:37

well its nice to have the manufacturing ability of Cheen behind you :(

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 16 Feb 2016 07:12

Singha wrote:though the jf17 is still going upgrades, full marks to TSP for assembling 60 of these already and putting into squadron service.
60 of anything beats 0 by a long long way in any emergency.

Don't you think you are yourself creating a Tejas versus JF-17 equivalence by saying this? One Paki action must be equalled by India to "keep up" with Pakistan

Of course it is fine to give Pakistan credit for assembling 60 JF 17s. But what does zero mean apart from rhetoric used to push a needless self goal of an argument? India has made 400 odd MiG 21s and several hundred Jaguars and Su 30s. So why are you comparing zero Tejas in service against 60 JF 17 as if that is all that matters "in an emergency". I ask because this is exactly what I find Pakis doing on Twitter and as comments on my videos.

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7415
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby disha » 16 Feb 2016 07:20

Singha wrote:though the jf17 is still going upgrades, full marks to TSP for assembling 60 of these already and putting into squadron service.
60 of anything beats 0 by a long long way in any emergency.


Sure., can they fly? Out of 60 - ZERO - 0 - Null - void - SHUNYA - turned up in Bahrain.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24187
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SSridhar » 16 Feb 2016 08:48

More than anything, who says JF-17 is a Pakistan designed a/c? If Pakistanis assume so, we are not responsible for that :)

Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Shreeman » 16 Feb 2016 10:43

shiv,

It is a matter of comparative timelines. During the same time, while producing its own medium and high end systems the chinese factories knocked off another 60 kits to spare. that is permitting deVelopment of operational methods by the user. Advantage: china. Whether it be the 16s or the 17s, the number of airframes added to this user in last 10 years is about 100+. By comparison, due to retirement and crashes the opposing light frames are down by 100+. Again medium/high end products and their operational methodology will change to compensate. A hole opens somewhere.

It remains a matter of running a production line for lightweight product, sourced, however. Will the 5+ year lead in numbers be caught up, ever?

The good sharif did take the two toys with him, by the way. The show probably decided to avoid controversy. There is nothing to read there.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 16 Feb 2016 10:53

we are competing with china here not TSP assembly remember? kamra is just another assembly line in addition to the ones in chengdu and so on....consider the overall productivity and local parts aspects.

they have put numerous local munnas in service by hook or crook.

we have found ways to tie ourself into complex knots to delay its induction, cover up lack of manufacturing on ones own feet (as opposed to licensed make with all tools and manuals ready from OEM) and sabotage it and run it down to spend all our hard earned tax money on a foreign chamri rafale.

somewhat crippled as they are by engines, both the J35 and J20 are moving on to IOC, while we have a plastic model for AMCA, cannot agree to produce 500 Mk1 and no work seems to have even started on the much vaunted Mk2 (did you know there is a project director in HAL for mk2 for years now?)

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2781
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby JTull » 16 Feb 2016 11:03

SaiK wrote:The 54 Rafale M is not necessary, and he should canvas for NLCA for Vishal.

Should we say this? is it not logical?


I don't know about Rafale M, but NLCA is not enough. We need to a mix of lighter and heavier aircraft with PLAN going for Flanker derivatives. NLCA will simply not have enough legs.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests