Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

sankum
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby sankum » 19 Feb 2016 11:37

Combat Hawk by HAL by Febuary 2017

IN wants 17 more Hawk taking the total to 34.

The total production run by HAL will be 160 Hawk.(126 to IAF +34 to IN)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gyan » 19 Feb 2016 20:29

It's the right decision to buy 7th Gen Hawk in huge numbers.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby sankum » 19 Feb 2016 22:29

Combat Hawk with ASRAAM and 100km standoff range PGM Spice 250 will be useful for ground attack.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby member_28990 » 20 Feb 2016 03:10

Is there any news of the LCH?

As per last reports it was supposed to get "full certification" november 2015.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/l ... 850155.ece

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 20 Feb 2016 03:29

sankum wrote:Combat Hawk by HAL by Febuary 2017

IN wants 17 more Hawk taking the total to 34.

The total production run by HAL will be 160 Hawk.(126 to IAF +34 to IN)



From that article, looks like HAL will deliver all 123 Hawk trainers on order a year ahead of schedule! This needs to be pointed out too ;)

...
HAL, which builds the plane under license at Bengaluru, is set to deliver all 123 aircraft to the two services a year ahead of schedule, opening up capacity at its line.
...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby member_26622 » 20 Feb 2016 08:12

Why can't HAL deliver LCA Tejas as fast Hawks? Nor did they ask for million trillion rupees to set up manufacturing line.

Screwdriver Jindabad !

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 20 Feb 2016 08:35

nik wrote:Why can't HAL deliver LCA Tejas as fast Hawks? Nor did they ask for million trillion rupees to set up manufacturing line.

Screwdriver Jindabad !


Usually there are initial hiccups at the start of production which over time are addressed and process smoothens out. HAL has put the same project manager who setup Hawk production line for LCA production.

From the revised LCA production timelines, HAL is supposed to deliver 5 SPs in the next few months. This is still within international timelines (24 to 36 months from Dec 20, 2013) for firm production orders of a frozen design to delivery.

HAL to build 8, then 12, Tejas fighters each year
...

... V Sridharan, the project manager hand-chosen to build the LCA. Earlier, he set up HAL's production line for the Hawk trainer.
...

The Tejas could be a game-changer. Firstly, HAL has played a major role both in designing the Tejas and in building prototypes for the flight-test programme. Secondly, HAL has brought a radically new approach to Tejas production, adopting global aerospace manufacturing standards and an unprecedented approach to quality control.

Walking around the Tejas assembly line, Sridharan explains that the sixteen Tejas prototypes HAL has built are each different from the other. As the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) incrementally refined and improved the fighter, each new prototype incorporated improvements and additions. The most recent prototype has a pressure refuelling system that lets the Tejas be topped up Formula One style, in just 8 minutes and then flown back into combat.

"As a result of all these changes, a panel from one Tejas would not fit another. Now we will implement absolute standardisation, with identical components, assemblies and panels," explains Sridharan.

This is being done with laser scanners that ensure that a number of key points (called "locators") on each aircraft being built is exactly where it should be. By measuring with the laser, it is ensured that the locator is within 80 microns, i.e. about one-tenth of a millimetre, of where it should be. These are international standards, used by companies like Boeing.

It is evident from the focus of the laser trackers teams that it is painstaking work. This standardisation, and coordinating the flow of Tejas systems and sub-systems to the assembly line constitutes what Sridharan describes as the process of "stabilising" the Tejas line.

"Once the process is stabilised, we can transition to higher rates of production. My initial focus will be on production quality; then we will scale up production. HAL will meet the target of building 20 fighters by 2016-17," he says.

That was the pattern while building the Hawk. After building just two aircraft in the first year, seven were built in the second year. In the third year, HAL built 18 Hawks, and the remaining 14 Hawks were produced within months.

...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gyan » 20 Feb 2016 09:18

No way HAL can roll out 19 LCA in next 13 months. Max they will do 1 or 2.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby deejay » 20 Feb 2016 09:46

nik wrote:Why can't HAL deliver LCA Tejas as fast Hawks? Nor did they ask for million trillion rupees to set up manufacturing line.

Screwdriver Jindabad !


ADA finalised the manufacturing process and SOP late last year. There is no magic wand. Now that standards have been set, the process of vendors/ ancillary manufacturer integration to manufacturing process should be on. I'd guess that 03rd quarter of 16-17 is when the Assembly line will start humming with regular activity and stabilized production rates from 1st quarter from 17-18. It may take longer.

In case of Hawks, the ancillaries and parts were already available, only the assembly line in India needed setting up. The deal would have covered the cost of setting up Indian assembly line by HAL.

JMT without being an engineer.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Aditya G » 20 Feb 2016 14:27

Combat Hawk is not a new concept. Wonder why BAE is peddling it via HAL.

Infact our Hawk's airframe follows from on the original combat hawk, i.e. Hawk 100.

http://www.airvectors.net/avhawk.html

The EGA Hawk emerged as the "Hawk 100" the next year, which featured:

The more powerful Adour 871 engine.

An extended "chisel" nose that accommodated a Ferranti laser range finder and a Marconi forward-looking infrared (FLIR) imager.

Avionics improvements, including a radar warning receiver (RWR); a chaff-flare dispenser located above the jet exhaust; an advanced navigation-attack system with radar altimeter and low-level strike capabilities; and a duplex MIL-STD-1553B digital databus. The RWR and chaff-flare dispenser system, built by Vinten, could be operated manually or put into an "automatic self-protection" mode to operate on their own while the aircrew dealt with combat operations.

New cockpit design, with MFDs; a HUD; "hands on throttle and stick (HOTAS)" controls; and compatibility with night vision goggles. The front seater had two MFDs and a HUD, while the back seater had a single MFD and a HUD repeater display.

The "combat wing" mentioned earlier, with Sidewinder launch rails on the wingtips along with the four wing pylons of previous Hawks; as well as greater area, increased wing droop, larger flaps, and additional combat maneuvering flaps. The wing pylons were qualified to carry a twin stores rack, allowing the Hawk 100 to carry, for example, a warload of nine 250 kilogram (550 pound) bombs, a pretty impressive punch for a small aircraft. Total external stores capability was 3,000 kilograms (6,600 pounds).

A wide range of munitions were either qualified or considered for qualification with the Hawk 100, including medium-range AAMs missiles such as the Sky Flash or even the AIM-120 AMRAAM; the Maverick air to surface missile; the Sea Eagle antiship missile; and the Marconi Sting Ray homing torpedo.

A taller tailfin; small fins ahead of the tailplane similar to the T-45's "smurfs"; and a steerable nosewheel.

The Hawk 100 demonstrator first flew in October 1987.


The main Q is does IAF want a combat hawk? Or even if they had one, where and how will it be employed? There may just be a stronger case with the navy, who has a much smaller air force and hence may want to employ their training units for CAP over naval stations and quick investigation of contacts over sea.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 20 Feb 2016 18:40

Exports too.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 21 Feb 2016 04:22

There was a Hawk-200 with a nose radar.

Image

Image

Image

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 21 Feb 2016 14:24

From the latest issue of Vayu
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbuG-u1UMAAA2Sq.jpg
Image
Rest of para
Due to the high-risk nature of spin testing a very cautious approach is being adopted by HAL and we are confident that the spin test will be completed successfully to achieve operational clearance.
Last edited by shiv on 21 Feb 2016 20:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 21 Feb 2016 14:50

nik wrote:Why can't HAL deliver LCA Tejas as fast Hawks?

You mean to say that the delivery of a trainer that took 20 years to reach the IAF after the requirement for an advanced trainer was felt is "fast"? Why don't you extend the same courtesy to Tejas and wait 20 years before making this statement - as you have done for the Hawk?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gyan » 21 Feb 2016 20:08

Shiv, pls give rest of the para.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 21 Feb 2016 20:22

Gyan wrote:Shiv, pls give rest of the para.

Due to the high-risk nature of spin testing a very cautious approach is being adopted by HAL and we are confident that the spin test will be completed successfully to achieve operational clearance.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Gyan » 21 Feb 2016 20:29

Great news and thanx for it.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 21 Feb 2016 20:53

I don't know for sure and I am guessing from some stuff I read a while ago, but I think for pilots to learn about spin and recovery the plane should be able to spin at least 3 - 4 times and then recover when some procedure is followed. What is not clear from that news is whether the IJT simply spins once and recovers without the application of corrective measures. Or whether it has been allowed to spin once and corrective measures applied to recover instantly. But at least the behaviour appears consistent

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 22 Feb 2016 06:35

The later. It enters spins and recovery through controlled inputs is within one turn.

This is a really good development.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 22 Feb 2016 06:41

On a different note, I see why HAL/BAE want to produce the combat hawk. But I don't understand what is the use of a combat hawk in IAF. I see a use for combat HTT-40. It provides different capabilities than a jet. Hawk can only provide a cost advantage, but how much?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 22 Feb 2016 07:04

indranilroy wrote:On a different note, I see why HAL/BAE want to produce the combat hawk. But I don't understand what is the use of a combat hawk in IAF. I see a use for combat HTT-40. It provides different capabilities than a jet. Hawk can only provide a cost advantage, but how much?

Perhaps the answer came from retired Air Cmde brfite?
viewtopic.php?p=968744#p968744
Abhibhushan wrote:I must thank the good doctor for prescribing just what an old fighter jock would love. While all of you go all out to design a 5th gen ++ super duper fighter, I want to take a detour and come up with some thing that my pongo friends would love to see in the sky.

There is one huge battlefield that might one day call me in for offensive air support which I am unable to provide today. I need an aircraft that can operate over Wallong and Along and perhaps a hundred kilometres north of it for releasing weapons in marginal visibility and if possible even by night. I need an aircraft that will take off from Leh or Chshul with one and a half tons of ordnance and be able to operate comfortably with full load at 20000 feet or more. I want an aircraft that can have a radius of action of 200 km flying at 15000 feet above sea level.

Let me now design this beast.

Take a basic Kiran. Retain the wings/tail. Build it as light as possible using composites. Redesign the main body for a single pilot and lots of internal fuel. Give it an internal bay for carrying about 50 x 68mm or 57mm unguided rockets and four hard points fit for 350 kg class loads. Give it a light contour mapping / imaging radar slaved to an HMS. Replace the 2 machine guns of the Kiran Mk 2 with one GSh23. Give it a glass cockpit and a DARIN III fit. Give it an integral laser target designator. Power it with an unreheated Adour (as used in the Hawk). Play around with the wing structure a little to improve its low speed turning performance. See if the RCS can be reduced by tinkering with the intakes. If possible, give it one or two short range light air to air missiles carried over the wing like the Jaguar. Give it a self defence electronic suit. If the Adour is unable to lift all this load then make it really an overpowered beast by fitting an unreheated Kavery!

Produce it in 36 months. Test and certify it in the next 24 months. Produce it in large numbers. In 1962, we could not / did not use offensive air power. Let there not be a repeat of that situation.

PS. I do not foresee a dense air defence air presence in the projected hostile area. If one comes along, I shall need top cover by the air dominance fighters you all are designing.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 22 Feb 2016 07:19

shiv wrote:
indranilroy wrote:On a different note, I see why HAL/BAE want to produce the combat hawk. But I don't understand what is the use of a combat hawk in IAF. I see a use for combat HTT-40. It provides different capabilities than a jet. Hawk can only provide a cost advantage, but how much?

Perhaps the answer came from retired Air Cmde brfite?
viewtopic.php?p=968744#p968744
Abhibhushan wrote:I must thank the good doctor for prescribing just what an old fighter jock would love. While all of you go all out to design a 5th gen ++ super duper fighter, I want to take a detour and come up with some thing that my pongo friends would love to see in the sky.

There is one huge battlefield that might one day call me in for offensive air support which I am unable to provide today. I need an aircraft that can operate over Wallong and Along and perhaps a hundred kilometres north of it for releasing weapons in marginal visibility and if possible even by night. I need an aircraft that will take off from Leh or Chshul with one and a half tons of ordnance and be able to operate comfortably with full load at 20000 feet or more. I want an aircraft that can have a radius of action of 200 km flying at 15000 feet above sea level.

Let me now design this beast.

Take a basic Kiran. Retain the wings/tail. Build it as light as possible using composites. Redesign the main body for a single pilot and lots of internal fuel. Give it an internal bay for carrying about 50 x 68mm or 57mm unguided rockets and four hard points fit for 350 kg class loads. Give it a light contour mapping / imaging radar slaved to an HMS. Replace the 2 machine guns of the Kiran Mk 2 with one GSh23. Give it a glass cockpit and a DARIN III fit. Give it an integral laser target designator. Power it with an unreheated Adour (as used in the Hawk). Play around with the wing structure a little to improve its low speed turning performance. See if the RCS can be reduced by tinkering with the intakes. If possible, give it one or two short range light air to air missiles carried over the wing like the Jaguar. Give it a self defence electronic suit. If the Adour is unable to lift all this load then make it really an overpowered beast by fitting an unreheated Kavery!

Produce it in 36 months. Test and certify it in the next 24 months. Produce it in large numbers. In 1962, we could not / did not use offensive air power. Let there not be a repeat of that situation.

PS. I do not foresee a dense air defence air presence in the projected hostile area. If one comes along, I shall need top cover by the air dominance fighters you all are designing.


Won't the LCA be able to fulfill the roles as described by retired Air Cmde brfite?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 22 Feb 2016 07:22

May 28, 2015 :: HAL eyes export potential of light attack Hawk

Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) has conducted weapons tests with its license-built BAE Systems Hawk 132 advanced jet trainer (AJT), and is confident of the project’s export potential.

The light attack Hawk upgrade also includes display and avionics modifications revealed at the Aero India show in Bengaluru in February.

“We are looking at exports of the weaponised Hawk or Light Attack Hawk and feel that there would definitely be a requirement for this type of aircraft in many countries,” says HAL chairman T Suvarna Raju.

“We are looking at the further weaponisation of the Hawk, though it has already been declared as weapons capable to a limited extent with guns and rockets,” he adds. “We have done some trials with rocket pods and are looking beyond this.”

The Indian air force likes the upgrade proposal, and the airframer will incorporate further suggestions made by the service, Raju told Flightglobal at HAL’s corporate office in Bengaluru.

On 26 May, the airframer announced that a memorandum of understanding with BAE had been concluded, “for a Hawk Mk 132 upgrade, development of combat Hawk for Indian and export markets and maintenance solutions for supporting the Jaguar and Hawk fleet.”

“Customers have been kept up to date with developments for Hawk, which include targeting pod simulation, laser designator pod, real and simulated ‘smart’ weapons integration, helmet-mounted display system and increased thrust engine with full authority digital engine control,” said a BAE official, in an earlier email response to Flightglobal.

Commenting on the Hawk upgrade at Aero India, an MBDA official said: “Should we be asked to weaponise Hawk with ASRAAM, we would certainly be able to assist.” The company’s Brimstone “could be ideal for the Hawk," the official said. "At only 50kg [110lb] per missile, with a dual-mode seeker for added operational flexibility, this air-to-ground multi-target weapon would certainly add a major capability to the Hawk.”

HAL has proposed a unique display and avionics upgrade for the Hawk, with two large 8 x 6” multi-function displays replacing the smaller, existing displays. A moving map display will be added and electro-mechanical instruments such as vertical speed indicator and altimeter will be removed.

The Indian air force has 91 Hawks, with a single example having been lost in a crash (attributed to pilot error) in 2008. The first contract for 66 Hawk 132s was signed in 2004, which saw BAE deliver 24 aircraft in fly-away condition; HAL completed licensed production of the last of the remaining 42 in 2012.

A follow-on order for 57 aircraft – 40 for the air force and 17 for the navy – was signed in 2010, and 25 and 11 aircraft respectively have been produced to date. HAL will deliver the remaining 15 and six aircraft respectively by 2016-2017.

A third contract for 20 aircraft for the air force's Suryakiran aerobatic display team has yet to be concluded

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 22 Feb 2016 07:25

srai wrote:Won't the LCA be able to fulfill the roles as described by retired Air Cmde brfite?

Sure. But that is underuse of LCA's capabilities. That apart I was reminded during the Kargil war by an Air Force officer that the large number of aircraft over Kargil would not be possible in general war where only a few would be spared. If the balloon goes up the Tejas will be required for roles requiring much more of its capability and a less expensive, less complex aircraft can fill roles such as the one Air Cmde Tikoo Sen envisages. In fact he says top cover may be needed - and the LCA could fit in there and perhaps even used for target recognition and illumination for the Hawks.

Unlike the Hawk 200 which was also a "Combat Hawk" designed with an air interception radar as an air defence fighter, the Indian Combat Hawk seems designed for the air to ground role. It is sure to fit in as a capable CAS fighter perhaps with Litening or similar pod carried.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kakkaji » 22 Feb 2016 07:38

Sounds like an effective and economical solution for a niche role. If the IAF in onboard with it and fully involved in planning the features, then the HAL Combat Hawk would be a good addition to the IAF fleet.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 22 Feb 2016 09:01

Deejay The combat Hawk is the air support plane we talked about. Hats of to Abhibhushan for describing it. And HAL for deciding to make it.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby deejay » 22 Feb 2016 09:26

ramana wrote:Deejay The combat Hawk is the air support plane we talked about. Hats of to Abhibhushan for describing it. And HAL for deciding to make it.


Yes, I was going to post here but thought I better read up on capabilities before commenting.

All in all (IMO), it is not about export market but our own requirements to fill a void which is clear and present.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 22 Feb 2016 17:22

shiv wrote:
indranilroy wrote:On a different note, I see why HAL/BAE want to produce the combat hawk. But I don't understand what is the use of a combat hawk in IAF. I see a use for combat HTT-40. It provides different capabilities than a jet. Hawk can only provide a cost advantage, but how much?

Perhaps the answer came from retired Air Cmde brfite?
viewtopic.php?p=968744#p968744


May, 2015 :: HAL - BAES Sign MoU for More Collaboration

(EDITOR’S NOTE: The Indian Air Force’s goal is to deploy its Hawks as lightweight fighters to make up its current shortfall in combat aircraft. These would be fitted with the same weapons as the IAF’s Jaguars, which are being modernized; the weapons include MBDA Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missiles (Amraam), Rafael Litening targeting pods, and a range of smart weapons, including laser-guided bombs and possible the Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System (APKWS), a laser-guided 70mm rocket.)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 22 Feb 2016 18:21

^^^

Good move IMO. With 150+ Hawk AJTs (both IAF/IN), that's a big secondary combat potential to be tapping into. Equivalent to 8 squadrons worth of reserves. Plus, add 200+ combat capable IJTs and HTT-40s into the mix as well in the near future.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kakarat » 22 Feb 2016 20:09

Government should consider forming a Auxiliary Air Force with only Made in India equipment. The Auxiliary Air Force should be equipped with LCA Tejas, Made in India Combat Hawk, ALH Dhruv, LCH, LUH, etc... Auxiliary Air Force's primary duties should be Protecting Cities, Supporting CAPF with air support and Supporting the Air Force during war time. Should be commanded by a Air marshal from the Air Force.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 22 Feb 2016 20:45

shiv wrote:
indranilroy wrote:On a different note, I see why HAL/BAE want to produce the combat hawk. But I don't understand what is the use of a combat hawk in IAF. I see a use for combat HTT-40. It provides different capabilities than a jet. Hawk can only provide a cost advantage, but how much?

Perhaps the answer came from retired Air Cmde brfite?
viewtopic.php?p=968744#p968744
Abhibhushan wrote:I must thank the good doctor for prescribing just what an old fighter jock would love. While all of you go all out to design a 5th gen ++ super duper fighter, I want to take a detour and come up with some thing that my pongo friends would love to see in the sky.

There is one huge battlefield that might one day call me in for offensive air support which I am unable to provide today. I need an aircraft that can operate over Wallong and Along and perhaps a hundred kilometres north of it for releasing weapons in marginal visibility and if possible even by night. I need an aircraft that will take off from Leh or Chshul with one and a half tons of ordnance and be able to operate comfortably with full load at 20000 feet or more. I want an aircraft that can have a radius of action of 200 km flying at 15000 feet above sea level.

Let me now design this beast.

Take a basic Kiran. Retain the wings/tail. Build it as light as possible using composites. Redesign the main body for a single pilot and lots of internal fuel. Give it an internal bay for carrying about 50 x 68mm or 57mm unguided rockets and four hard points fit for 350 kg class loads. Give it a light contour mapping / imaging radar slaved to an HMS. Replace the 2 machine guns of the Kiran Mk 2 with one GSh23. Give it a glass cockpit and a DARIN III fit. Give it an integral laser target designator. Power it with an unreheated Adour (as used in the Hawk). Play around with the wing structure a little to improve its low speed turning performance. See if the RCS can be reduced by tinkering with the intakes. If possible, give it one or two short range light air to air missiles carried over the wing like the Jaguar. Give it a self defence electronic suit. If the Adour is unable to lift all this load then make it really an overpowered beast by fitting an unreheated Kavery!

Produce it in 36 months. Test and certify it in the next 24 months. Produce it in large numbers. In 1962, we could not / did not use offensive air power. Let there not be a repeat of that situation.

PS. I do not foresee a dense air defence air presence in the projected hostile area. If one comes along, I shall need top cover by the air dominance fighters you all are designing.

Good answer Hakim.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 22 Feb 2016 21:47

deejay wrote:
ramana wrote:Deejay The combat Hawk is the air support plane we talked about. Hats of to Abhibhushan for describing it. And HAL for deciding to make it.


Yes, I was going to post here but thought I better read up on capabilities before commenting.

All in all (IMO), it is not about export market but our own requirements to fill a void which is clear and present.



deejay the Project managers for the A-10 had envisioned a supped up Gnat as their CAS plane. I had linked it earlier.

So take a look at the Hawk 200 specs and armament and see what can be done. I like the 9 - 250 kg bombs coupled with the laser range finder.

I don't think too much of the unguided rockets.
If the cannon 30 mm Aden then its good. I think something like 30mm is needed for anti-tank role.

Can HAL use IAF standard equipment like DARIN 3 and Litening laser pod? And 250 Kg HSLD?

Many evaluation of multi-role fighters have shown they end up being like the curate's egg: good in parts.
A CAS plane wont do well for other roles.
I hope they add titanium armor for pilot protection and engine, even at cost of some payload.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Surya » 22 Feb 2016 22:26

actually kudos to Rupak who long ago (told us why the Hawk manufacture bring a more flexible platform to us.

Abhibhushan - explained the nitty gritty of it to use armchair folks

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Lalmohan » 22 Feb 2016 22:47

the way to make the armed hawk more effective is to use them in groups and have a targeting aircraft - maybe a SU30 or other large platform working with sigint and elint platforms, and then datalink the target info to the hawks - who can come in low and fast, release and scoot

still wondering about the hot and high performance

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 22 Feb 2016 23:27

That is a question I want to evaluate too. It would have been interesting had a F125IN powered version been proposed.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 23 Feb 2016 06:19

ramana wrote:
I don't think too much of the unguided rockets.
If the cannon 30 mm Aden then its good. I think something like 30mm is needed for anti-tank role.

ramana unguided rockets are as devastating as cannon and can be used out of pods. But not for air to air close in combat
Here is a short clip of A-10 Gatling versus Mi 35 unguided rockets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuLnnVDld-M

srai
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 24 Feb 2016 04:45

^^^

MANPADs, with 6km range, make lining up and somewhat long-run required for unguided rocket/gun a quite risky affair.

Bombs are better in that regard as the plane can fly low and then pop up for quick release and then dive back for cover. Or they can be dropped from high or far outside MANPAD bubble.
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Last edited by srai on 24 Feb 2016 14:24, edited 1 time in total.

Kartik
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kartik » 24 Feb 2016 09:43

What the heck!!

India to attempt local overhaul of troubled An-32 fleet

The Indian Air Force (IAF) will issue a request for proposal (RFP) next month for the overhaul of 20 Antonov An-32 airlifters to independent Indian maintenance repair and overhaul providers. The move follows problems with an upgrade by the OEM in Ukraine, on the heels of deteriorating relations between that country and Russia. Meanwhile, a long-planned Indo-Russian project to eventually replace the IAF’s 105-strong fleet of An-32s has stalled.

The former IAF maintenance commander Air Marshall P. Kanakraj set the scene for the RFP two years ago when he said, “We are expecting the MRO Industry to partner for reclamation, refurbishment and re-equipping of our aviation assets…both fighter and transport aircraft.” AIN has learned that an RFI was issued a few months ago to Air India Engineering Services, Air Works India, Taneja Aerospace and GMR Aero Technic. The RFP will be for 11 packages, including repainting, wing structure modification and aging fleet and ultrasonic inspection.

The work performed on the 40 IAF An-32s that were upgraded in Ukraine before the crisis with Russia halted progress included air collision avoidance system, ground proximity warning system, satellite navigation system, distance-measuring equipment, upgraded radio altimeters and new radar with two multifunctional indicators. Engineers from Antonov were sent to the IAF repot in Kanpur to oversee work on the remaining 65 An-32s. But they left midway through the effort, even as the IAF started working with private manufacturers for indigenization of components such as nuts, bolts, washers, pipelines, rubber seals unions, joints, harnesses, filters and electronic items.

India’s largest MRO, Air India Engineering Services Ltd. (AIESL), would do this work at the recently completed Boeing overhaul facility in Nagpur. The company has already been selected to do future overhauls on the Indian Navy’s Boeing P-8I Poseidons. “Our new six narrow-body hangars are unlike any other in India, and we can work on three An-32s at a time. We estimated it will take 206 days to complete each aircraft,” chief executive officer of AIESL H.R Jagannath told AIN. But he warned that reliable supply of spare parts is essential. Last April, AIN reported that Antonov was unable to obtain any Russian-made An-32 components. An Indian vendor told AIN recently that more than 40 aircraft in the IAF fleet had been cannibalized.

According to recent media reports in both India and Russia, the Multi-Role Transport Aircraft (MTA) project to replace the An-32s has foundered on choice of powerplant and cost. Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) and United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) supposedly signed a contract in 2012 for the twinjet, high-wing, T-tail design. The IAF would take 45 with another 100 going to the Russian air force. UAC believes that the Aviadvigatel PS-90A turbofan is the best solution, whereas HAL wants a new powerplant that includes Fadec.

Aditya G
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Aditya G » 25 Feb 2016 01:08

I think Combat Hawk may have some potential in IAF if it is developed as an upgrade package, and not a new plane. IAF may find that the upgrades improve the quality and content of the training delivered to student pilots - in which case it will be a win win. It will also allow IAF to use student pilots to deliver a small range of combat missions, such as flying CAPs over own airbases like Agra and Gwalior.

However, we should not entertain the notion that Hawk can supplement the squadron shortfall. When the balloon goes up, IAF will throw all hawks into the battle and we will end up loosing a lot of good men.

In war, IAF's #1 priority will be to ensure air defence over own territory and over own troops. Hawk will be found wanting in that role as it will not have the speed to intercept Paki fighters. Even if an intercept is made, can Hawk defeat even a F-7PG with eye-ball mark-2 alone? Even an old MiG-21FL is preferred in such circumstances.

During peacetime, I doubt Hawks can intercept a high flying airliner. For UAV interception, LCH or Apaches may be better suited.

Nevertheless, I am wonder how Hawk compares to Hawker Hunter in performance. If all things remain same as in 1965, could Hawks attack Sargodha?

Karan M
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Karan M » 25 Feb 2016 06:05

Aditya superb post.


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