Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Feb 2016 08:32

राजाभैया

#TMG ‏@nitindevss
Late Hanumanthappa had married a widow in order to give her a respectable life.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 18 Feb 2016 10:22

^^ We really lost a great great soul.

jayaaren · Post by **jayaaren** » 18 Feb 2016 14:45

Pls. correct me if wrong but did anything come of this
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indi ... 21955.html

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 18 Feb 2016 15:17

^^^ Did a little digging online. Looks like nothing

From Dec 2012

The authorities in Oman continue to maintain that they do not currently have any Indian nationals in their prisons. They accept that there is a prison on Masarih Island Oman which is a new complex built 6 years ago.

I have been informed by my contact in Oman that there is an old prison on Masarih Island known locally as the 'Old Jail'.

I believe that there is a possibility that Sepoy Jaspal Singh is in bonded labour in Oman - possibly working for an official. I am aware that despite bonded labour being criminalised internationally, it is practised in the region.

A group of publicity seeking Indian business men in Oman jeopardised the search for Sepoy Jaspal Singh by exercising a heavy handed approach with very little understanding of the situation.

I invited a number of the press in Oman including the 'Times of Oman' to publish an appeal in their publication urging Sepoy Jaspal Singh or anyone who knows him to contact the Indian Embassy in Oman. 'The Times of Oman' has failed to respond to this request. It is a state owned publication and therefore I do not expect nothing more from them.

http://justiceupheld.blogspot.in/2012/1 ... to-be.html

On the same topic. Article on POWs still missing / untraced in Pak

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... ntion.html

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 18 Feb 2016 22:09

Hnair, i am sorry if you find my post re Supreme court unpleasant but it is still a valid criticism of the Supreme court. They have overstepped their bounds on numerous occasions using the cover of "the final arbiter of the Constitution and the final say" and usurping the lawful powers of the legislative and executive branch. They are becoming a law unto themselves and do not know their restraint. So I am expressing my very strong displeasure with the act of the Supreme Court, in fact, getting into the details of the Army and how the Army manage its troops and officers and discipline. This is an area where the judiciary has no role whatsoever. It falls entirely within the domain of the executive branch since the President is the supreme commander of all military and the PM is the premier advisor and chief executive of the government. I fail to see how the Supreme court can have any jurisdiction in the promotion system. The quota system is not part of the army system and the legislative and executive branches saw it that way. The judiciary cannot override those considerations just because they feel like it.

So I stand by my comments, especially on an Indian forum because we have too many instances of the Supreme Court making decisions and issuing orders by fiat usurping legislative powers, especially when they are not elected by the people. They practically appoint themselves to the Supreme Court with no say allowed by the Parliament or President!!

They need to be reined in ASAP!

RKKhanna,

The supreme court should have said this is none of my concern and does not fall within my purview and therefore no standing. The government did the worst thing it ever could. Now it allowed Supreme court into the decision making process of the Army and discipline matters. Once that happens, it is very hard to limit Supreme Court involvement.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 22 Feb 2016 20:01

5 more soldiers lay their lives down in the line of duty. RIP, brave sons of India.

Pampore Encounter: Gunbattle Ends, 3 Terrorists Killed - PTI, New Indian Express

SRINAGAR: The 48-hour fierce gunbattle on the outskirts of Srinagar ended this evening with the killing of three heavily-armed terrorists holed up in a government building situated along the Srinagar-Jammu National Highway.

"The encounter has ended and three militants who had taken refuge inside the building have been killed," a police official said about the incident in Pampore. An Army official, overseeing the operation, also said that three terrorists were killed in the five-storey building of Entrepreneurship Development Institute (EDI) and 'war-like' stores, including arms and ammunition had been recovered.

A combing operation was underway to sanitise the building which has 44 rooms plus lobbies, washrooms and a restaurant on the top floor. The operation, which began on Saturday evening, saw five security force personnel including two Captains of elite commando units laying down their lives while battling the terrorists, suspected to be of foreign origin.

A civilian was killed in the crossfire between the two sides while 120 civilians were evacuated safely. As the operation entered the third day today, the Special Forces of the army maximised the force, using mortar shells to flush out the terrorists, the officials said. During the intense gunfight, the top floor of the building caught fire which forced the ultras to shift towards one side of the complex where they were nuetralised, the police official said.

The terrorists were suspectedly foreigners and apparently a "suicide squad", said Major General Arvind Dutta, General Officer Commanding of Victor Force, who was overseeing the operation. The identity of the slain attackers, however, was not immediately known, he said. In Delhi, CRPF Director General Prakash Mishra said the attack "appears to be" the handiwork of Lashker-e-Taiba (LeT) terror outfit.

Maj Gen Dutta said the building appeared to be a pre-determined target where they rushed into after attacking a CRPF convoy. "They were carrying a large quantity of arms and ammunition... They were seen running into the building with big bagpacks," the army officer said.

Two CRPF jawans and a civilian were killed and nine other jawans injured when militants opened fire on CRPF convoy on Saturday afternoon. As the security forces mounted an assault on the building yesterday, they met with stiff resistance from the ultras who are holding vantage points inside the building.

"The terrorists had a huge opportunity to hide inside the big complex....They had an advantage. They could see our movements," the GOC said. He said the CRPF initially made an attempt to enter the building immediately after their convoy was targeted but the terrorists threw grenades and fired at them, forcing them to withdraw. It is then that the Army stepped in, Maj Gen Dutta said.

Even as the gunbattle was underway, hundreds of residents from nearby Pampore town and adjoining areas tried to march towards the encounter site but were asked by security forces to disperse. However, they started raising slogans and indulged in stone-pelting , a police official said, adding police fired teargas shells and pellets to disperse the protestors.{What do these people really want? These herrows to be allowed to live in that building, while they feed them? One's patience is wearing thin seeing their antics - wasting too much free resources on ungrateful people.}

At least three persons sustained minor injuries in the clashes, the official added. Army lost three elite commandos -- two Captains and a Lance Naik -- in the gunfight. Captain Pawan Kumar was killed in a pre-dawn exchange of fire with terrorists yesterday while he was leading a team of special forces in clearing the third floor of the building after sanitising first and second floor, Maj Gen Dutta said.

Captain Tushar Mahajan and Lance Naik Om Prakash also sustained fatal injuries in the afternoon yesterday. The army paid a befitting tribute with full military honours to its martyrs -- Captain Tushar Mahajan and Lance Naik Om Parkash -- who attained martyrdom yesterday during an operation in Pampore, a defence spokesman said.

"Homage was paid to the valour and sacrifice of the martyrs in a solemn ceremony held at Badami Bagh Cantonment. Late Captain Tushar Mahajan and Lance Naik Om Prakash were members of the team that had launched an operation on Feb 21 against the terrorists who ambushed CRPF personnel and took refuge in the EDI Building and were instrumental in clearing major portion of the multi storeyed building where the terrorists had hidden.

"In this process, they engaged the terrorists at close quarters and in the ensuing firefight, suffered grievous injuries to which they later succumbed," the spokesman added.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Feb 2016 09:47

I am shocked at Vishnu Som vicious Twitter attack on a soldier and bogus comparsion of Army officers as JNU graduates.

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 24 Feb 2016 10:34

Folks, I've been tweeting the memories of our martyrs with the hashtag #ObituaryOfTheDay (LINK) for the past one year
Do share and add on

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 24 Feb 2016 10:49

TV anchors are more worried about their income and survival in a kleptocratic setup of paid news amid loss making TV news business. I have stopped watching their fruitless discussions where they are the bully forcing their own judgements on other panelist according to the TV channel management loyalties where they work.

This particular anchor had a smirk on his face with no sympathy for a victimised honest officer he was interviewing and it was too obvious where his sympathy lies i.e, in perpetuating the present corrupt system of which he is a beneficiary.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Feb 2016 22:58

anishns wrote:Another article questioning the credibility of Vishnu Som

http://www.opindia.com/2016/02/meet-ndtvs-vishnu-som/

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 24 Feb 2016 23:23

This anchors are so brash and confident that they don't care a damn about their credibility taking a hit.

Most of the TV news channels will close down if their black money finance via paid news is checked and their anchors will be out of job.

It is a news mafia with no accountability which political class uses to their advantage.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 25 Feb 2016 00:23

Indian MoD approves private sector ammo production

India's Ministry of Defence (MoD) has approved the manufacture of assorted ammunition for the Indian Army by private sector manufacturers in order to reduce imports and end the enduring monopoly of the state-run Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) in producing it locally, industry sources have indicated.

For several decades a handful of private Indian companies have only been permitted to make shell casings for various ammunition, which were then sent on to the OFB for completion. Now, however, the MoD is seeking clearance from the Cabinet Committee on Security before awarding contracts to private manufacturers for a diverse range of ammunition including 155 mm and 125 mm rounds for howitzers and main battle tanks (MBTs).

Good news and hope this ends OFB monopoly

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 25 Feb 2016 01:01

Kartik wrote:Indian MoD approves private sector ammo production

India's Ministry of Defence (MoD) has approved the manufacture of assorted ammunition for the Indian Army by private sector manufacturers in order to reduce imports and end the enduring monopoly of the state-run Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) in producing it locally, industry sources have indicated.

---------------------------
Good news and hope this ends OFB monopoly

IMO this does not solve the core issue. Issue is the way orders/quotas will be provided.

Private companies will be allocated quota/amount that they can produce per annum, how they will sustain their operations when they reach allocated minuscule quota? Unless they are allowed to export, MIC cannot sustain their operation based on local demand alone.

Bhaskar_T · Post by **Bhaskar_T** » 28 Feb 2016 09:51

I thought with Nano and Parrikar, we had resolved the issue to quite a good extent.

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Indian- ... 173589.cms

INDIA
Indian Army grapples with arms, gear shortage
Rajat Pandit | TNN | 6 hours ago
SHARE THIS STORY AA

(Representative image)
NEW DELHI: Long-winded procedures and bureaucratic bottlenecks continue to stymie the already long-delayed modernisation of the Army, which is grappling with shortages in several areas ranging from modern assault rifles, bullet-proof jackets and night-fighting capabilities to howitzers, missiles and helicopters.
The Navy and IAF, however, have done much better. Defence minister Manohar Parrikar on Friday told Lok Sabha that 162 arms contracts worth Rs 1.33 lakh crore with Indian and foreign manufacturers were signed from 2012-13 to 2014-15. In the ongoing fiscal, 44 such contracts worth Rs 39,955 crore have been inked so far.

But the "persisting operational hollowness" in the 1.18-million strong Army is the big worry. Over 140 modernisation projects, worth over Rs 2.30 lakh crore, are currently meandering their way through the labyrinth of South Block corridors. "The Army contracts inked this fiscal amount to just Rs 5,800 crore," said a source.

While a few of the 140 projects are new, most of them are years old. Induction of third-generation shoulder-fired ATGMs (anti-tank guided missiles), for instance, has been hanging fire for over a decade now. Sources say acquisition of "Spike" ATGMs from Israel is among the 22 projects, together worth over Rs 22,000 crore, stuck in final commercial negotiations.
A stage ahead of these 22 projects are 10 contracts — worth around Rs 24,000 crore — awaiting financial approval and nod from the cabinet committee on security. These include the 4th regiment of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles, two Pinaka rocket regiments and the medium-range surface-toair missile systems.
Taking note of the continuing delays, Parrikar at the defence acquisitions council meeting on Tuesday directed officials to ensure that 86 modernisation schemes for the three Services that are close to finalization — worth around Rs 1.5 lakh crore — should be wrapped up in the next four to five months.
Some delays also take place because of the Army's formulation of unrealistic technical parameters (general staff qualitative requirements) as well as corruption scandals. "This often leads to the scrapping of tenders or RFPs (request for proposal) despite years being spent on initial processing and trials," said the defence ministry source.

Bhaskar_T · Post by **Bhaskar_T** » 28 Feb 2016 10:01

Ramanna, Anish - Thanks for sharing. I couldnt believe myself and I checked Vishnu Son twitter account. It is filled with Kejriwal, Odd-Even and pushing some people by saying 'I have very high contacts'. I instantly recalled, is this the same VishnuSom who gave all the minute and great details when he had a ride in many of the MMRCA fighter contestants. Probably, he has left active defence reporting.

I think Sourav Jha, AKM are the only two known defence journalists left. NewsNation (TV) and OneIndia (Online media) give good importance to defence reporting.

ramana wrote:
anishns wrote:Another article questioning the credibility of Vishnu Som

http://www.opindia.com/2016/02/meet-ndtvs-vishnu-som/

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Feb 2016 10:12

ramana wrote:I am shocked at Vishnu Som vicious Twitter attack on a soldier and bogus comparsion of Army officers as JNU graduates.

whom did he attack ??

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 28 Feb 2016 12:11

^^ the entire kahani is here: http://www.opindia.com/2016/02/lies-man ... -our-army/

disha · Post by **disha** » 28 Feb 2016 12:29

arshyam wrote:^^ the entire kahani is here: http://www.opindia.com/2016/02/lies-man ... -our-army/

arshyam, thanks for posting that link.

Also another link is posted regarding Vishnu Som. My twitter TL also has Vishnu Som's antics. In a nutshell he bullied & threatened an Indian Army soldier. Further he used the blood of the fallen in pompore to whitewash JNU crimes (figuratively).

Given the above., I urge the admins to ban Vishnu Som from BRF. He is bharat's bhakshak and not rakshak.

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 28 Feb 2016 12:43

Instead of banning, let ask the moron first what he is trying to do. He's part of the randee tv ofcourse

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 28 Feb 2016 20:03

From: The New Indian Express:Echoes of a Past Thunder

Truly a moving picture

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 28 Feb 2016 21:20

Rahul M wrote:
ramana wrote:I am shocked at Vishnu Som vicious Twitter attack on a soldier and bogus comparsion of Army officers as JNU graduates.
whom did he attack ??

arshyam wrote:^^ the entire kahani is here: http://www.opindia.com/2016/02/lies-man ... -our-army/

Such is the ignorance and in turn the hubris of such talking heads! They cover a story and all of a sudden proclaim themselves to be SME's - given the bully pulpit of the mike that they possess (not intellect) - This person in question's posts on BR over the years speaks volumes of the same.

His report post the Pathankot AFB attack; His broadcast a few years back on the Sikorsky Helicopter (he is a prop in that 30 minute ad - where he gets to rappel down onto an Indian freighter in the North Sea

), etc etc all point to one thing - a serious lack of intellectual depth and a surplus of bluster.

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 29 Feb 2016 14:46

Think first time in 15 odd years the Defence Budget was not mentioned in the speech? Probably looking at a decrease

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Feb 2016 15:00

Nitin Gokhale appears to be one of the few level headed types reporting from dilli.
Rest of the non partisan, non political types are AKrishnan M, TSR Subramaniam, SJja, R Prasannan and Y Mallikarjun.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 29 Feb 2016 15:58

Since I am yet to find the actual GOI thing on defence budget 16-17, I am posting some tweets mentioning the amount for clarity:

Rahul Singh ‏@rahulsinghx now24 minutes ago
India's defence budget for 2016-17 stands at Rs 2.58 lakh cr, a hike of 9.7% over last year's revised estimates of Rs 2.33 lakh cr @htTweets

Nitin A. Gokhale ‏@nitingokhale now1 hour ago
Some clarity on defence budget coming through. overall allocation up from 2.46 lakh cr to 2.58 lakh cr. Pensions up from 64000 to 82000 cr

Tarmak007 ‏@akananth now4 hours ago
Retweeted Ajit Kumar Dubey (@ajitkdubey):

Breaking: RS 3.41 lakhcr allocated for defence budget. #Budget2016

The Defence Budget with Pensions included is Rs. 3.41 Lakh Cr. What % of GDP does that make it? Viz. China where are we on Defence Spending in dollar terms? Without Pension, what is our Defence spending in % of GDP terms?

Do these questions have any meaning?

Why was the Defence Budget skipped from the speech? Was it to signal lower priority of defence for this dispensation? Was it accidental? Is there some (Chunkian) idea behind this move?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Feb 2016 16:23

AJ touched mostly on things that have seen change, defence budget was on usual lines, so may be that could be a reason.

nits · Post by **nits** » 29 Feb 2016 16:57

Indian GDP as per Wiki is ₹161.6 lakh crore. As per this Defect Budget is 2.1% of GDP with pension and 1.6% without pension considering Defect Budget is 3.41 Lac Crore( including 80K crore pension)

Direct comparison... we are close to 50 Billion and China has 130 Billion of Defense Budget. Chota bhai has 8 Billion

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 29 Feb 2016 17:00

deejay wrote:
The Defence Budget with Pensions included is Rs. 3.41 Lakh Cr. What % of GDP does that make it? Viz. China where are we on Defence Spending in dollar terms? Without Pension, what is our Defence spending in % of GDP terms?

Do these questions have any meaning?

Why was the Defence Budget skipped from the speech? Was it to signal lower priority of defence for this dispensation? Was it accidental? Is there some (Chunkian) idea behind this move?

With pension- 50 billion dollars/2.17% of GDP.
Without pension- 38 billion dollars/1.65% of GDP.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Feb 2016 17:24

Pranay wrote:
arshyam wrote:^^ the entire kahani is here: http://www.opindia.com/2016/02/lies-man ... -our-army/
Such is the ignorance and in turn the hubris of such talking heads! They cover a story and all of a sudden proclaim themselves to be SME's - given the bully pulpit of the mike that they possess (not intellect) - This person in question's posts on BR over the years speaks volumes of the same.

His report post the Pathankot AFB attack; His broadcast a few years back on the Sikorsky Helicopter (he is a prop in that 30 minute ad - where he gets to rappel down onto an Indian freighter in the North Sea ), etc etc all point to one thing - a serious lack of intellectual depth and a surplus of bluster.

Thanks for posting the exchange. I saw the earlier part, not the latter part. Vishnu, like all TV personalities has a huge ego which he likes to show. This brings down my view of him. Gone is the eager young defence enthusiast. Now a politically aligned mouthpiece of some interest or other.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 29 Feb 2016 17:32

Thank you Rahul M, Nits, Kittoo for the clarity.

Rhetorically speaking, will we say
a) India spends 2.17% (50 Billion dollars) on defence or
b) India spends 1.65% (38 Billion dollars) on defence

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 29 Feb 2016 17:33

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 29 Feb 2016 17:54

shiv wrote: Thanks for posting the exchange. I saw the earlier part, not the latter part. Vishnu, like all TV personalities has a huge ego which he likes to show. This brings down my view of him. Gone is the eager young defence enthusiast. Now a politically aligned mouthpiece of some interest or other.

Not to mention cult-like following some of these 'personalities' enjoy in BRF. As I've said before, we should be very careful in fanning the egos of these Twiterrati any more than needed.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Feb 2016 19:09

deejay wrote:Thank you Rahul M, Nits, Kittoo for the clarity.

Rhetorically speaking, will we say
a) India spends 2.17% (50 Billion dollars) on defence or
b) India spends 1.65% (38 Billion dollars) on defence

Most countries would even count the pension component as part of def budget

nits · Post by **nits** » 01 Mar 2016 10:52

There is one more perspective to it... i was reading today's TOI and it shows from where money comes and where it goes as part of Budget coverage... 10% of our Budget expenditure goes to Defense; if we apply this logic and compare then China is spending 6% of its Budget expense to Defense...

IMHO its not about comparison but GOI should ensure our forces should have money as per our requirement and scenario. Though its altogether different thing this year also they were not able to spend 100% of budget allocated to them - what we need is rollover of unspent budget to a special kitty which can be used over the time

nits · Post by **nits** » 01 Mar 2016 15:09

In Bihar, candidates asked to strip down to their underwear for Army exam

After that defining freezeframe from Vaishali last year of people perched on the window shades of a multi-storey building, passing on answer chits to students appearing for exams inside, comes another image from Bihar showing the other side of the coin.

This one, from Sunday, shows over 1,150 candidates, dressed only in their underwear, sitting cross-legged on an open ground in Muzaffarpur, putting pen to paper in the hope of making it to the Army. They said they were ordered to do so by supervisors to ensure they don’t cheat in the recruitment exam for soldiers on general duty and in the clerical and technical categories.

Sources at the Army Regional Office (ARO) said the candidates were asked to remove their clothes to “save time on frisking so many people”.
When contacted by The Indian Express, Col V S Godhara, director, ARO, said, “We conduct thorough frisking and ensure that candidates carry minimum external things to the exam centre.”

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Mar 2016 14:30

this is a mockery of the dignity of the candidates.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Mar 2016 15:26

Singha wrote:this is a mockery of the dignity of the candidates.

Actually I did not see it that way. Once they get into training this "ordeal" will be nothing and those who are sensitive are welcome to keep out. If anyone thinks this is undignified the army is not for him - he should become an accountant or an Itivity. It is those who want a pass by cheating who will be most affected.

Here is what happens when they start training starting from the moment a fresh recruit walks in through the gate in his civvies. This is a brillliant video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpJ8M62mVnQ

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 03 Mar 2016 17:14

Singha wrote:this is a mockery of the dignity of the candidates.

It might be a desperate step in view of what's been happening in the past and based on the feedback of recruits gained in those past drives. Just a guess.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 03 Mar 2016 18:12

shiv wrote:
Singha wrote:this is a mockery of the dignity of the candidates.
Actually I did not see it that way. Once they get into training this "ordeal" will be nothing and those who are sensitive are welcome to keep out. If anyone thinks this is undignified the army is not for him - he should become an accountant or an Itivity. It is those who want a pass by cheating who will be most affected.

Here is what happens when they start training starting from the moment a fresh recruit walks in through the gate in his civvies. This is a brillliant video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpJ8M62mVnQ

+1. They will do their running and other qualifying drills in their kacchas. Medical too. We have been stripped to our kaccha's in the academy a couple of times. Even in school that happened and a few hockey sticks on our bums as punishment. Used to be called kit fatigues - under PC pressure principal decided to ban hitting as punishment. Enterprising prefects came up with kit parade - you would dress down to your kachhas and then dress back into various uniforms/kits - PT, class, formal etc. And yes run down to the games grounds and back between each kit change. We preferred hockey sticks - jhatka rather than halal.

So this is no big deal.

I really think we need some form of universal military service in India so that people understand the fauj, get some discipline , be physically and mentally toughened , get some perspective and thank our blessings and stop reacting to non issues.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 03 Mar 2016 18:26

^^^ Kapoor Sir, once they reach training centers, all this kaccha stuff will be normal only.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 03 Mar 2016 18:37

deejay wrote:^^^ Kapoor Sir, once they reach training centers, all this kaccha stuff will be normal only.

another thing they will have is Ustaads with thin sticks (completely organic and environment friendly) giving them whacks on their legs during drill. Party is just beginning.