Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Karan M
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Karan M » 20 Mar 2016 00:50

ManuJ, it was against a simulated target. Check R&D thread for significance of this test and the ones that have already been done.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Karan M » 20 Mar 2016 00:53

Thanks a ton for this video Shiv - beautiful lines of that Sukhoi and the Astra will add some sharp claws.

shiv wrote:Su-30 fires Astra BVRAAM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heLENdOcs84

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby member_28880 » 20 Mar 2016 03:38

http://indianairforce.nic.in
From the above link some one should upload the full video with night ops of IRON FIST 2016 from " EXERCISE IRON FIST 2016 LIVE WEBCAST" tab in the You tube, as i cant do that same from my location.

Note*:- There is one more aborted LGB mission by Mirage-2000 during the night ops.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Surya » 20 Mar 2016 04:13

what are the Akashs mounted on - thought they were truck\trailer mounted?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 20 Mar 2016 06:34

hate to be party pooper but read my post in indian missiles thread about length and scope of amraam test program.

astra is a long way yet from being a volume producable FOC weapon

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 20 Mar 2016 06:38

shiv wrote:Iron Physt 2016 MiG 29 breaks sound barrier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGJ8f2zxth0

The IR camera in the UAV in the above video has picked up the supersonic airflow "cone" produced by the MiG 29 flying at 1200 kmph
Image

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby arun » 20 Mar 2016 06:55

shiv wrote:LOL :rotfl:

No BRFite is allowed to miss this but there shall be no names named. Jagan garu watch this...

Watch just 5 seconds from here
https://youtu.be/IPNbzqfmpE8?t=438


8) with no names named :wink:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 20 Mar 2016 11:22

Not at all sure that the Tejas R-73 missed. A piece of the flare breaks off when the missile passes by very close
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPYFa_x1Lao

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kakarat » 20 Mar 2016 13:50

GIF of DRDO Akash missile firing at Iron Fist 2016

https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 2107685888

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 20 Mar 2016 14:44

Surya wrote:what are the Akashs mounted on - thought they were truck\trailer mounted?


Here's how they move those launchers around:

Image

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Karan M » 20 Mar 2016 14:59

Singha see my response. Astra test program is far more comprehensive than you estimated and has already cleared most of the test points mentioned in the Amraam program. Besides which we are following the SDRE yahoodi approach of limited number of high complexity tests and then condtant testing thereafter. See Python5 testing for example and Akash testing.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 20 Mar 2016 15:10

Also, modern approach to design using CAD and 3D prototypes along with super-computational analysis, like CFD, and wind tunnel scale model studies alleviate the need for extensive flight testing of models of the past generation. Every flight test would try to compound as many test points as possible (and target test points of interest) to limit number of flights/missiles required for validation and certification.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 20 Mar 2016 18:25


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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Viv S » 21 Mar 2016 02:35

India Finalizes $3B Blueprint for UAV Fleets

By Vivek Raghuvanshi, Defense News

NEW DELHI — Indian defense forces have finalized a blueprint to procure more than 5,000 UAVs over the next 10 years for about US $3 billion, and tenders will be restricted to domestic companies that can tie up with foreign firms, said a Ministry of Defence source.

Lack of industrial expertise, combined with delays and cost overruns, have stymied past efforts to develop and produce indigenous UAVs for tactical requirements. These efforts also were limited to state-owned companies.

"In the future, the private sector will be involved in a big way to meet all future requirements of UAVs," said an MoD official.

In the next three to five years, the Indian Army proposes to equip UAVs down to the battalion level, while the Air Force plans to have fully operational squadrons of surveillance UAVs and unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAV).

The plan includes the induction of many man-portable mini and micro UAVs for short-range surveillance, and nuclear, biological, chemical detection in the battlefield.

The Indian Army, Air Force and Navy propose to buy tactical UAVs, high-altitude long-endurance (HALE) UAVs, vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) UAVs, and medium-altitude, long-endurance (MALE) UAVs.

A Navy official said the demand for MALE and tactical UAVs could rise.

Homegrown Programs Underway

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is developing a variety of UAVs for the services, including:

• Air Force: Three Rustom UCAVs and one ground station at a cost of $60 million; two stealth UCAVs called autonomous unmanned research aircraft (AURA) and one ground station for $75 million; 30 Nirbhay UAVs and unspecified numbers of Lakshya-II remotely piloted high speed target drones at a cost of $531,687 per unit.

• Navy: Three Rustom UCAVs and one ground station for $60 million with 12 more to come; 10 MALE Rustoms at a cost of $225 million; four Pawan mini UAVs for $33.2 million; 50 air- and ship-launched Nirbhay UAVs; three rotary UAVs at a cost of $232 million; unspecified numbers of Netra micro UAVs for $50,000 per unit; and Gagan tactical UAVs at a cost of $55 million with help from Israel.

• Army:Three Rustom UCAVs and one ground station at a cost of $60 million and 12 more in the future; 10 Rustom-2 UCAVs for $342.3 million; 12 Nishant UAVs at a cost of $5 million each; and three hybrid mini-UAVs and one ground station for $350,000.

DRDO is also supplying about 25 Netra micro UAVs to Indian paramilitary forces at a cost of $50,000 per unit.

An MoD source said that in the next two years, fresh tenders will be floated for a variety of UAVs, and that a concept study has been started on development of a bomber UAV and a fighter UAV.

Major programs that have been finalized for the Army include induction of 500 mini and macro UAVs and an unspecified number of HALE UAVs; for the Air Force are an unspecified number of UCAVs, 95 micro unmanned aerial systems and an unspecified number of small VTOL and mini unmanned aerial systems; for the Navy are 95 micro unmanned aerial systems and unspecified numbers of HALE UAVs costing around $200 million.

In addition, DRDO also has an independent unmanned surveillance air vehicle on the drawing board, which is similar to the X-45 and X-47 developed in the US and is also scouting for a partner to develop a solar-powered HALE UAV.

Currently Indian defense forces are operating Israeli-made Searcher Mark I, Searcher Mark II, Heron and Herop UAVs and the Indian-made Nishant UAV.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shaun » 21 Mar 2016 05:07

Present Indian Capability on UAV front , four Nishant UAV delivered to IA in the year 2010 , all four crashed !! . Two crashed in 2010 itself and the rest two last year. The first two crashed due to navigation problem and the last two due to recovery mechanism. IA has put on hold the Phase-II induction of eight more such drones
Wiki says The Indian Army has placed an order for 12 Nishant UAVs along with ground support systems way back in 2007.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby uddu » 21 Mar 2016 06:44

Nishant is the first ones. Then came the Panchi variant of it. Also there are Rustom-1 variants. Now close to Rustom-II and many more miniature UAV's of various types and sizes.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby member_24684 » 21 Mar 2016 07:09

DRDO is also supplying about 25 Netra micro UAVs to Indian paramilitary forces at a cost of $50,000 per unit.


A single quad copter costs $50K ..how

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 21 Mar 2016 07:43




The air force will “critically evaluate” this week why it missed two targets during a much-touted combat exercise at Rajasthan’s Pokhran test facility on March 18, said a top IAF officer familiar with the drills.

A US-made Paveway laser-guided bomb (LGB) dropped by a Mirage 2000 warplane at night failed to hit a predetermined, stationary target at the Chandan firing range — the IAF’s biggest air-to-ground range where fighter pilots train on delivering heavy weapons.


The French-origin fighter’s target was an “enemy” radar site, designated as “3N”.

The detailed analysis of Iron Fist, an exercise held every three years to deter a conflict, will look into why the accuracy of the air-to-ground precision weapon was degraded, said another officer.

The Soviet-origin OSA AK-M surface-to-air missile system also failed to hit its mark. The missile’s design is such that it does not need direct contact with the target to explode. A “proximity fuse” automatically blows it up when it gets to a certain distance from the target.

“One of the two missiles could not engage its target. It appears the fuse did not function as the missile may not have been close to the target,” the officer said.


Weapons not striking targets under controlled conditions are a cause of concern, but an IAF source said the possibility of 10% of weapons not functioning was built into the tactical planning process.

{Dud rate of 10% allowed by IAF!}

In Pics: Indian Air Force shows its ‘Iron Fist’ in Pokhran

IAF spokesperson wing commander Rochelle D’Silva told HT on Sunday the ammunition and weapons had performed as expected. She added that in a combat scenario, the air force would increase the number of assault platforms depending on the nature of the threat.

An Indian Air Force aircraft demonstrates mid-air refuelling capability. (PTI Photo)

The 181 aircraft, including 103 fighter planes, other weapons systems and air warriors involved in Iron Fist will de-induct by March 22 after which the IAF will analyse the hits and misses in detail.

“It will involve feedback from pilots, footage from unmanned aerial vehicles, radar images and inputs from the South Western Air Command that conducted Iron Fist,”
said a senior officer at the air force headquarters in the Capital.

On the positive side, the IAF said the light combat aircraft(LCA) scored hits with its LGB and R-73E air-to-air-missile in the first public display of the indigenous fighter’s capabilities during the exercise. Attacking in a dive mode, two Mirage 2000s destroyed another radar site – designated as target 5 — with five 250-kg Spanish bombs. :P

{I think 250 kg Spanish bombs are very old vintage. More like Gnats era}


A Sukhoi-30 fighter jet dropped four 450-kg high-speed low-drag bombs to render an “enemy” runway unfit for combat operations, while another destroyed a bridge with an Israeli Griffin LGB.

Upgraded MiG-29 and MiG-27 fighters, Jaguars, MiG-21s, Hawks and Mi-35 helicopter gunships struck their targets at the exercise during which 572 rockets, 81 bombs and nine missiles were fired, including the indigenous Astra beyond-visual-range missile and the Akash missile.



Odd that only one Paveway was fired and it was a dud. Are defective stores being sold by US?

Was the Griffin mated to 450 kg HSLD?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Sid » 21 Mar 2016 07:56

^^^ Ramana ji, that should be one are of investigation. Other things will be to check if all firing parameters were met before releasing the weapon. That chap firing Igla seems to have fired it a bit early given the time difference between firing of flare and his weapon release.

There is a lot of pressure during these events.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Karan M » 21 Mar 2016 08:53

If pavewayz are of kargil era those are 17 year old bombs..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 21 Mar 2016 13:34

Karan M wrote:If pavewayz are of kargil era those are 17 year old bombs..


There was a new Paveway-II order in 2012 for Jaguars for bunker busting role. Not sure if those have been integrated with Mirage-2000s or not?

Lockheed Martin bags deal to supply laser-guided bombs to IAF

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 21 Mar 2016 14:05

SajeevJino wrote:
DRDO is also supplying about 25 Netra micro UAVs to Indian paramilitary forces at a cost of $50,000 per unit.


A single quad copter costs $50K ..how


clearly an example where volume COTS purchases might be cheaper and better on the
fast moving UAV tech curve. plenty of wedding and nature photographers are going
around with high end drones and HD video.

every platoon of IA and BSF needs to have a couple of such small uavs

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Zynda » 21 Mar 2016 19:03

Small snippets. IAF is in process of converting several Russian origin choppers in to VIP/VVIP carriers. Custom interiors & all...work is being done by a prominent Indian MRO. I was disappointed by choice of materials for interior monuments. Tends to be become weight expensive but I guess being first time for the said MRO...better to go with a safe choice & get experience. Also, I know from first hand, IAF has have had bad experience from standard materials for interior monuments, which were designed by a phoren company. Only hope that the above trend of contracting desi companies for design & fab work continues towards the lower end spectrum of SME...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby jayasimha » 21 Mar 2016 21:24

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=138168






Print ReleasePrint

XClose


Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
18-March-2016 20:30 IST


IAF conducts day – night exercise ‘Iron Fist’ in Rajasthan





Indian Air Force’s day-night exercise demonstrating its combat and fire power was conducted on 18 Mar 16 at Rajasthan’s Pokhran firing range in the presence of Hon’ble President Shri Pranab Mukherjee and Hon’ble Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi.



Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha, Chairman Chiefs of Staff Committee and the Chief of the Air Staff in his welcome address gave an insight into the exercise and the modernisation in the Indian Air Force. During his address, he stated that the primary objective of this exercise is to reassure the nation about our commitment and capabilities in safeguarding our national interests. The Air Chief said that the IAF moves ahead on its transformation path despite certain constraints, maintaining a high combat potential for meeting challenges.



The event comprised six packages depicting six themes in which more than 180 aircraft, including fighters, transport and helicopters participated.



Fly Past. The great journey of the IAF over eight decades was summed up by means of this package, with the aircraft of yesteryear flying wing to wing along with the latest acquisitions of the Indian Air Force. A MiG-27 aircraft heralded the commencement of the flypast by towing the Ex “Iron Fist” banner, which was followed by Supersonic run by the MiG-29 aircraft. The “real time recce” capability of the IAF was displayed by a Jaguar aircraft. Vintage aircraft flypast by “Tigermoth” evoked the memories of the birth of military aviation in India and was followed by the Pilatus, the latest trainer aircraft of the IAF. The fly past by a mixed formation comprising a MiG-21 Bison, MiG-27 Upgrade, MiG-29 and the mighty Su-30, showcased the transformation of the IAF over the decades.



Net Enabled Operations. This segment commenced by the majestic fly past of the indigenously developed Airborne Early Warning and Control System and the display of AWACS aircraft. The flypast was followed by a synchronized multiple aircraft weapon delivery demonstration of precision based bombing at simulated enemy targets by Mirage-2000, Su-30, MiG-27 Upgrade aircraft and the Jaguar.



Air Defence Operations. After demonstrating the offensive capabilities, the exercise demonstrated the multi-layered Air Defence Operations of the IAF. It comprised of the fly past by the Flight Refuelling aircraft (IL-78 FRA) along with two Su-30 aircraft and the indigenously built Light Combat Aircraft ‘Tejas’, which displayed its swing role attack capabilities by delivering Laser Guided Bomb (LGB) followed by firing an air to air missile, engaging both targets with deadly precision. The phase also included Surface to Air Guided Weapons like the IGLA shoulder-fired missile system and the OSA-AK missiles striking down airborne targets successfully. There was also a spectacular simulation of a Combat Search and Rescue operation carried out by the IAF’s versatile helicopters, the Mi-35, Mi-25 and Mi-17V5.



Combat Support Operations. This phase showcased the very important role played by the Indian Air Force in support of the ground forces. There were numerous targets simulating the enemy’s vital assets, engaged on the ground from the air by a variety of aircraft on the IAF’s inventory. Apart from the fighters, the assault landing capability of versatile C-130 J aircraft and the fire fighting capability of the Mi-17V5, were also displayed in this phase.



Flying Displays. After the demonstration of live weapon, an array of aerobatic displays by the Sarangs, the Suryakirans and the Su-30 added a dash of colour to the evening. The Air Warrior Drill Team (AWDT) and Air Force Symphony Orchestra (AWSO) enthralled the audience with their performances.



All Weather Operations. As the night drew upon the desert skies, the night capabilities of the IAF came to the fore. A number of targets were engaged in this phase by fighters, transport aircraft and helicopters using rockets as well as bombs. The “Search light” and Slithering Operations engaged the attention of the audience while the Combat Free Fall during the night phase showed how the IAF could take on insertion of troops in the enemy territory undetected. The Akash Missile firing was a first in the history of Fire Power Demonstration. The exercise inched towards a close by a beautiful and awe-inspiring display of Flare dispensation by a C-130J and an An-32 aircraft. The final event of the exercise was the awesome display of firepower by a MiG-27 Upgrade aircraft, giving a befitting close to a grand display.



The event showcased more than 22 types of platforms and Weapons Systems. Frontline fighter aircraft including Sukhoi-30, Mirage-2000, Jaguar, MiG-29, Attack helicopters, Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA) and high tech AWACS displayed their potential during the show in which prestigious indigenous project – Light Combat Aircraft “Tejas” was also a part. Transport aircraft like An-32, Embraer, IL-76, IL-78 and C-130J participated in all their glory while medium lift helicopters (Mi-17, Mi-17 1V, Mi-17 V5) and attack helicopters (Mi-25, Mi-35) constituted the rotary wing ingredients.



Defence Minister Shri Manohar Parikar, Hon’ble Rajasthan Governor Shri Kalyan Singh, Chief Minister Smt Vasundhara Raje and Chiefs of Indian Army and Indian Navy were among others present during the Exercise.



The President, Prime Minister and the Defence Minister complimented Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha and Air Marshal RK Dhir, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the South Western Air Command for the excellent Fire Power Demonstration.



RCD/MKR/BIS

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 21 Mar 2016 22:27

viewtopic.php?p=1995635#p1995635

PTI quote senior IAF official saying the Paveway was ordered not to be released due to low visibility. No issues.

However the LGB from the LCA was near miss and did not go off.

Issues whether the R-73 from LCA also was near miss.

Neither of these reflects on the LCA.
Its the ordnance.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kartik » 22 Mar 2016 03:56

A seminal day for Naval aviation..an aircraft that represented fighter aviation in the Navy for more than 3 decades is now a part of history.

Indian Navy retires Sea Harriers

NEW DELHI — The Indian Navy has retired the Sea Harrier fleet that operated from its aircraft carrier INS Viraat, and plans to replace them with MiG- 29Ks that India has bought from Russia.

The Indian Navy bought 30 British-made Sea Harriers in 1983 but only 11 now remain. The Navy once considered upgrading the Sea Harriers but abandoned the plan.

The Sea Harrier pilots are now being trained to fly the Russian MiG 29K fighter aircraft.
..

State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. conducted a limited upgrade to the Sea Harriers in 2009 but acquisition of spares has become a problem because BAE Systems has stopped manufacturing the aircraft. The limited upgrade included mounting of Israeli Elta-made multimode fire control radars and Derby beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles.

In 2006, the Navy planned to purchase retired Sea Harriers from the Royal British Navy but the Ministry of Defence later abandoned the program.

The retired Sea Harriers have now been mothballed at the Indian Navy's Air Station in Goa before being distributed as museum pieces, the Indian Navy official said.

Even the Viraat, which housed the Sea Harriers, is proposed to be retired by year end. The carrier, which was originally the Royal Navy's HMS Hermes, was bought from the Royal Navy in 1986. Since then a number of refits have been carried out on the vessel.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby sankum » 22 Mar 2016 04:08

An aircraft with high crash rate. 18 of 29 Sea Harriers crashed in 32 years of service killing 8 pilots.

End of an era which will remembered for ever.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 22 Mar 2016 06:16

sankum wrote:An aircraft with high crash rate. 18 of 29 Sea Harriers crashed in 32 years of service killing 8 pilots.

End of an era which will remembered for ever.

The interesting thing is that even prototypes crashed spectacularly, but that did not halt them from making a successful program out of it. Notice how we have spent years flagellating ourselves for failures
Harrier prototype crash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNXazY3iJEo

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 22 Mar 2016 11:19

^^^

In India, failure is seen as the end (completely useless) whereas in the West failure is seen as a stepping stone for eventual success.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Mar 2016 11:28

No in India, those of Foreign Countries payroll want to shut all ccapability, i.e future competitors to west, the will use every aurgument to delay deny the local capability.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby brar_w » 22 Mar 2016 17:26

shiv wrote:
sankum wrote:An aircraft with high crash rate. 18 of 29 Sea Harriers crashed in 32 years of service killing 8 pilots.

End of an era which will remembered for ever.

The interesting thing is that even prototypes crashed spectacularly, but that did not halt them from making a successful program out of it. Notice how we have spent years flagellating ourselves for failures
Harrier prototype crash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNXazY3iJEo


Thats a good point. Prototypes not crashing is a fairly recent phenomenon that is a consequence of decades of work in making flight testing, design, and development a lot structured, data driven and safer. Nos esse quasi nanos gigantum humeris insidientes applies as much to flight testing as it does to medicine or anything else.

Recently, the F-22, SAAB Gripen have had their prototypes crash but not too long ago, program managers actually accounted for such classA mishaps as part and parcel of development. You learn and move ahead although the cost of these crashes and the subsequent impact on many programs is increasingly getting higher with aerospace and defense reporting having suffered massively in terms of talent drain, and lack of profitability allowing for amateur bloggers with no experience, and absolutely no access to information to fill the vacuum and claim the mantle of legitimate aerospace commentators.

This is unfortunately true for worldwide defense reporting. In the west, and I suspect in India as well, the stakes are simply too high. With plenty of disinformation, poor characterization and interpretations of the facts on the grounds prevalent on a lot of new projects, a crash would simply give these folks the ammo required to finish a program/project off. Political hacks in the west will gladly be outraged by misinformation spread by a shady blogger who may or may not even be credentialed by those he is commenting upon only because he has a lot of 'traffic' and gets 'recycled' by the web-media with its rather relaxed editorial standards..Yet these same politicos won't even bother to read a 2000 word analysis on events that actually involves experienced, reputable journalists often teaming up with technical folks that actually know the topic they are commenting upon. Sad, but a reality that defense programs around the world have to live with!

Each mishap has it's own set of circumstances and it's own sequence of events. But those who study mishaps find similar issues: communications, complacency, unwarranted assumptions, human frailties….just like a chain. You make a chain -- a chain of events -- when you have any of these accidents. Any link of the chain, if broken, would prevent an accident. The X-31 flight test team was the "A" team -- the best people, from every discipline -- from every organization. But they lost an airplane. If it can happen to the best team, it can happen to any team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1E3xpePbmA


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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 23 Mar 2016 21:22

I reviewed the Iron Fist video in detail. The OSA missile did not miss. It exploded close enough to pepper the triple parachutes from which the target was slung with holes. That can be seen clearly in a video that I will soon upload. Unfortunately that did not stop the parachutes from continuing with their job although one was flying at a cockeyed angle becaue some cords must have been cut. An aircraft would have been peppered with shrapnel.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 23 Mar 2016 21:30

Fairly detailed overview of the IF 2016. ignore the title and LCA remarks. My own title to suit the thread...

Iron Fist 2016 debriefing


ejas not singled out during post-Iron Fist briefing: IAF

The Indian Air Force (IAF) clarified that it never portrayed India’s home-grown fighter jet Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas in ‘poor light’ after a section of media reported on a probe into ‘failed bombing missions’ during Iron Fist exercise held in Pokhran ranges recently.
# By Dr Anantha Krishnan M
March 23, 2016, 02:13 PM IST
T- T T+
Tejas

Bengaluru: The Indian Air Force (IAF) clarified that it never portrayed India’s home-grown fighter jet Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas in ‘poor light’ after a section of media reported on a probe into ‘failed bombing missions’ during Iron Fist exercise held in Pokhran ranges recently.

The IAF also clarified that its post-Iron Fist briefing did not single out Tejas, instead presented an overall review of the Fire Power Demonstration (FPD) held on March 18.

The negative publicity for Tejas, which is on course towards fulfilling the Final Operational Clearance (FOC), is said to have caught the attention of Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on Tuesday, who was chairing a top-level review meeting on the fighter programme in Delhi.

Missed target figures in Tejas review meeting

During the meeting, the progress of Tejas was reviewed by Parrikar, who has now emerged as the strongest supporter for the home-grown project. Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha and a host of top Defence Research and Development Organisation officials were present during the review.

“The failed mission of Tejas came for a discussion. The negative publicity for the programme for no fault of the machine was a concern. Many felt that the media should have been briefed adequately so that any misconceptions could have been ironed out,” an official who attended the meeting said.

On Tejas, the official said that the IAF was in agreement with the current plans of DRDO.

“Ultimately, the IAF wants Tejas in large numbers and at a faster rate to form the squadron. Hopefully they (HAL-ADA) combine should be able to complete the remaining tasks without any delays. Unlike his predecessor (A K Antony), the RM (Parrikar) has a better hold on the project,” says the official.

106 bombs hit targets, only 2 malfunctioned

While Parrikar was chairing the meeting, social media was abuzz with the ‘failed mission’ of Tejas.

Speaking to Mathrubhumi, Air Vice Marshal Vikram Singh, Assistant Chief of Air Staff, Operations (Space) said that all through his briefing he hailed the role of Tejas and its pilots.

“First of all, the briefing was not restricted to Tejas alone. We dropped 108 bombs during Iron Fist and 106 hit bang on the target. Only two had an issue and we are investigating the matter,” AVM Vikram Singh said.

106 bombs hit targets, only 2 malfunctioned

Only Jaguar LGB had a clean strike

According to him, the IAF had planned four LGB (Laser Guided Bomb) missions, including Tejas, Sukhoi-30 MKI, Mirage and Jaguar.

“Jaguar had a clean strike and Mirage did not drop the bomb at all due to poor visibility. The LGBs dropped by Sukhoi and Tejas missed the targets. We are looking into the malfunction of the bombs,” the official said.

The IAF claimed that a total of 577 rockets were fired during the exercise and all were declared as hits. He said all the missiles fired were also on target.

“The Tejas and Sukhoi carry complex bombs. The pilots had visibility concerns owing to the clouds and smoke in the area. We are finding out what went wrong,” he said.

Tejas and Sukhoi had carried Griffin and Paveway LGBs during Iron First, both capable of pin-point precision-strike capabilities.


Everything can’t be spectacular; it’s not a movie

With the media ‘highlighting’ only Tejas missing the target, the issue seems to have demoralised a young team of engineers and designers at HAL and Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

“During the FDR (Full Dress Rehearsal) on March 15, Tejas hit all the targets as mandated by the mission. The pilots could lock on within 20 meters of the target. On March 18, it was cloudy and there were visibility issues as well. The R-73 pierced through the flare, something that was not visible for the spectators. It was not probably that spectacular as expected,” says an HAL official, who was part of the Tejas detachment.

Everything can’t be spectacular; it’s not a movie

Lack of awareness on fighter’s abilities

According to a scientist with ADA, Tejas performed the most critical ‘swing role’ on March 18.

“There’s absolutely a lack of awareness among a large section of people on the abilities of a fighter plane. Everything cannot be spectacular. This is not a movie. Unfortunately Iron First was publicized as FPD and there’s more than what meet your eyes. In swing role, from an A-to-G (air-to-ground) attack mission, Tejas got on to an A-to-A (air-to-air) mode, which is significant. The pilot swiftly moves to 6G to 8G during this phase,” says the official.

Interestingly, on a day when Tejas was hit by the ‘media missile,’ back in Bengaluru, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd rolled out the second series production (SP-2) fighter for this maiden flight.





Shiv is right both Su-30 and LCA did miss the target. Only the jaguar LGB hit the target and the Mirage did not drop due to cloud cover.

However Su-30 was a Griffin and LCA must be Paveway as its not clearly mentioned.

I don't know why spokespersons don't use precise language?

Sid
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Sid » 24 Mar 2016 03:15

LCA dropped Griffin while Su dropped Paveway. LCA must have used weapon kit from its test program.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 24 Mar 2016 03:31

Are you sure that Su-30 dropped the Paveway? We heard of purchases of Griffin for the Su-30s.

Anyway if its the Paveway that missed as Shiv wrote it has its CEP issues.
Griffin makers will also be looking at the parameters.

Jaguar was qualified for Paveway.

---

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 24 Mar 2016 03:37

X-post...
Karan M wrote:So what does one do. Be happy at dumb bombs being all ok 9kudos for IAFs storage facilities, planning and its techs
Or be concerned at 2/3 not there rate of LGBs..ideally we should aggregate over tests so if this means 7 LGBs were used.. 4 in FDR and 3 in IF
"During the FDR (Full Dress Rehearsal) on March 15, Tejas hit all the targets as mandated by the mission"
And rate of misfire would be 2/7...which is reasonable.
Looks like smoke or cloudy weather is kyyrptonite for LG systems


Weren't there issues with fuzes for HSLD. OFB stopped making fuzes designed by ARDE for them. And took out all refs to such hardware on their webpages.

So if 106 exploded and some were HSLD pretty good.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Sid » 24 Mar 2016 04:12

Well to be 100% sure we just have to wait till ADA releases their Iron First video. But considering -

1) Iron Fist 2013
2) weapon tests

where mostly Griffin was used, we can assume this time too they used it.

Paveways are from IAFs stock, hence it was employed on all of its platform in Firepower demo, Mirage/Jaguar/Su. Maybe a good way to clear older kits.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 24 Mar 2016 08:27

Sid wrote:LCA dropped Griffin while Su dropped Paveway. LCA must have used weapon kit from its test program.

The commentator announces that the Su-30 is going to drop a Griffin. You need to get back to that point in the video and listen

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 24 Mar 2016 09:43

Ok. So SU 30 dropped Griffin which was mated to HSLD. and LCA dropped Paveway both missed.
Interesting that both firang maal didn't work but desi LCA plane got calumny!!!

Deep runs the psy-ops.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 24 Mar 2016 10:47

Sid wrote:LCA dropped Griffin while Su dropped Paveway. LCA must have used weapon kit from its test program.

I don't think Su-30MKI has been mated with Paveway-2.

This is what it seems to be based on public info on which LGB integrations have taken place:
  • Paveway-2 -> Jaguar, Mirage-2000, LCA
  • Griffin-3 -> Su-30MKI, LCA


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