LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

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Neela
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Neela » 22 Mar 2016 17:55

Akshay Kapoor,
PLease see @writetake's timeline in Twitter. IAF was quick to blame Tejas even before an analysis.
That speaks very very poorly on the IAF.

Akshay Kapoor
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 22 Mar 2016 18:07

Neela, I have said 'no one on this forum' has denigrated Tejas.


Re comment from IAF, I have spent an hour looking at the timeline and still don't know what was said, who said it and in what context. Journalists must give their sources with rank and posting ( AOC of an airbase, ACAS etc, spokesperson etc etc) so that we can understand the context of what is being said and whether the speaker speaks for the organization or not. I have a memory of when I was in CI Ops and happened to make an off the cuff remark to a journalist (in response to a question) having chai samosa and the next day he had completely twisted my comment.

With scarps of info We jump to conclusions that IAF hates Tejas. We shouldnt give these comments real or imaginary too much cognisance. Tejas has a lot of momentum. Why ?

Because it works. End of.

Too much breast beating and negativity here.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby deejay » 22 Mar 2016 18:25

Neela wrote:Akshay Kapoor,
PLease see @writetake's timeline in Twitter. IAF was quick to blame Tejas even before an analysis.
That speaks very very poorly on the IAF.


Neela, I suggest read the writetake timeline yourself. AKM is on forum an may correct me.

I checked his twitter feed for last 80/100 tweets and retweets.

There is no mention of IAF calling Tejas or mocking teajs. #MockInIndia has been floated by tweeples :eek:

There is some press briefing where IAF clearly said the LGB missed the target. IAF or IAF official never said Tejas failed. This was the writetake tweet (correct me if I am wrong, that set all against IAF)

✈Anantha Krishnan M ✈ ‏@writetake 14h14 hours ago
#IAF portrays #Tejas in bad light again. How can LGB malfunction a problem with fighter? @SpokespersonMoD @PMOIndia


This tweet conversation has one reply and it answers and kills the issue (or should have killed the issue)

Ajit Kumar Dubey
‏@ajitkdubey
@writetake @SpokespersonMoD @PMOIndia the IAF said the LGB malfunctioned n not the aircraft. Wrongly reported from a confused briefing.


IAF will never speak to the media from 'unnamed sources'. There is a proper Press briefing and proper official announcement. These unnamed officials are not real. That is the Offcial IAF position. It is your problem if you want to believe these figments of imagination called Unnamed IAF Officals.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 22 Mar 2016 18:32

Deejay + 1000

And here is an article that says Tejas LGB did not miss.

We know most of our dear journalists are not the brightest tools in the box. So why do we believe them at a drop of a hat without doing our own due diligence ?Why do some of us take off on our Don Quixote missions and start tilting at windmills at the slightest chance ?

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/exercise-iron- ... ets-671603
Last edited by Akshay Kapoor on 22 Mar 2016 18:39, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 22 Mar 2016 18:33

The SP2 looks 2 months away from flying, i hope am wrong

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby aakashj » 22 Mar 2016 18:40

✈Anantha Krishnan M ✈ ‏@writetake 10m10 minutes ago
#BreakingNews #Tejas SP-2 completes maiden flight successfully in Bangalore. Report soon.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 22 Mar 2016 18:50

yeyyyyyy!!!!! i can possibly become the dilbullah for Tejas thread

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28880 » 22 Mar 2016 18:57

Awesome work by AKM for his series of tweets against the arms lobby and for TEJAS. Members tweet as much as possible to MP, MOD and PMO india in your own capacity to discard this bad lighting of LCA.

Again Kudos to AKM for his breaking SP2 flight.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kakarat » 22 Mar 2016 19:10

May be the photo from @writetake was a old one

Here is another

Image
Last edited by Kakarat on 22 Mar 2016 19:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Karan M » 22 Mar 2016 19:11

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Deejay + 1000

And here is an article that says Tejas LGB did not miss.

We know most of our dear journalists are not the brightest tools in the box. So why do we believe them at a drop of a hat without doing our own due diligence ?Why do some of us take off on our Don Quixote missions and start tilting at windmills at the slightest chance ?

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/exercise-iron- ... ets-671603


If NDTV says something our default position (inclduing that of rest of defence journo community) should be to believe the opposite happened. :lol:

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Karan M » 22 Mar 2016 19:11

Kakarat wrote:May be the photo from @writetake was a old one

Hear is another

Image


Production quality looks top standard

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kakarat » 22 Mar 2016 19:17

http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/india/tejas-sp-2-takes-to-skies-hal-says-plans-on-track-english-news-1.945789

Bengaluru: The second series production (SP-2) aircraft from the hangars of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) had its maiden flight on Tuesday.

Military sources confirmed to Mathrubhumi that the SP-2 fighter was piloted by Group Capt K K Venugopal of National Flight Test Centre.

“The SP-2 took off at 02:06 pm and stuck to the text-book flight-plan as mandated during the first couple of test sorties. The flight lasted for 37 minutes and the pilot landed back at 2:43 pm,” an official said. HAL is yet to officially announce the details of the maiden flight.



HAL officials now say that the SP-3 would fly by July and from then on the production rate would pick up. A separate plan to ramp up the production schedule of Tejas is in the pipeline.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 22 Mar 2016 20:11

Folks lets wait for more info on the LGB from LCA. Very clear it was the LGB itself and not the plane.

The discomfort is that kit is Israeli aka Griffin.

Same Griffin launched from Su-30 hit its target.

There is reason why near miss in not acceptable for the HSLD.

IAF is working on hangar busters.


Please understand what the display was all about.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kakarat » 22 Mar 2016 20:22

According to @writetake IAF and MoD will be shortly coming up with a clarification on this

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/712293531428098048

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_27581 » 22 Mar 2016 20:33

It is much better to have these near misses or misses in these exercises rather than in actual combat scenario. IAF is looking into it and corrective actions will be taken.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 22 Mar 2016 20:53

Kakarat wrote:looks like SP-2 is still months away from flying

Famous last words..
https://twitter.com/Peacef_Warrior/stat ... 9233373184

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 22 Mar 2016 21:00

ramana wrote:Same Griffin launched from Su-30 hit its target.

Su-30 Griffin missed or did not explode. Clearly seen on video

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 22 Mar 2016 21:25

Kakarat wrote:http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/india/tejas-sp-2-takes-to-skies-hal-says-plans-on-track-english-news-1.945789

Bengaluru: The second series production (SP-2) aircraft from the hangars of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) had its maiden flight on Tuesday.

Military sources confirmed to Mathrubhumi that the SP-2 fighter was piloted by Group Capt K K Venugopal of National Flight Test Centre.

“The SP-2 took off at 02:06 pm and stuck to the text-book flight-plan as mandated during the first couple of test sorties. The flight lasted for 37 minutes and the pilot landed back at 2:43 pm,” an official said. HAL is yet to officially announce the details of the maiden flight.



HAL officials now say that the SP-3 would fly by July and from then on the production rate would pick up. A separate plan to ramp up the production schedule of Tejas is in the pipeline.

So HAL has delivered!

  • SP2 -> March 2016 [27 months from Dec 20, 2013 IOC-2]
  • SP3 -> July 2016 [31 months from Dec 20, 2013 IOC-2]


Timeline is still well within international standard of around 36 months from order (on frozen design specs) to start of deliveries.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 22 Mar 2016 21:29

Question is: Have IAF pilots started flying the Tejas yet or not?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Shreeman » 22 Mar 2016 21:46

SP2 does not have a tail hook. Also, no in flight refueling. The radar is still covered in kevlar. adhoc fix on brakes and the canopy glows like a beacon to radar. LRUs are still in unmaintainable configuration. Supersonic droptanks? No. How can you increase production like this? This is no braveheart. It is not a world-beater. It is a 3-3/4 geNeration 2-7/8 legged cheetah when block 70 will be facing it in the hundreds.

Better just stick to 1 airframe every three years.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby deejay » 22 Mar 2016 21:56

shiv wrote:Question is: Have IAF pilots started flying the Tejas yet or not?


No, SP1 still with NFTC.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby saje » 22 Mar 2016 22:03

Shreeman wrote:...when block 70 will be facing it in the hundreds..


And where will our hundreds of MKIs be facing saar?!

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby uddu » 22 Mar 2016 22:07

And why you need Tailhook for SP2? To drag Musharaff all the way from slumbad?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby nirav » 22 Mar 2016 22:17

srai wrote:
HAL officials now say that the SP-3 would fly by July and from then on the production rate would pick up. A separate plan to ramp up the production schedule of Tejas is in the pipeline.

So HAL has delivered!

  • SP2 -> March 2016 [27 months from Dec 20, 2013 IOC-2]
  • SP3 -> July 2016 [31 months from Dec 20, 2013 IOC-2]


Timeline is still well within international standard of around 36 months from order (on frozen design specs) to start of deliveries.[/quote]

Hopefully it will put to rest 'HAL employees sitting on arse, union guys working on OT only' non sense !

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Lalmohan » 23 Mar 2016 01:23

next thing you know, HAL employees will be wearing scooter helmets...

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_22539 » 23 Mar 2016 06:47

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Arun Menon,

you see conspiracies where none are. I have not seen a single comment on this forum that has insinuated that Tejas has deficiencies.


Philip wrote:Today's juicy titbit."Tejas missed target at IAF drill watched by.Modi,Prez....."

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Khalsa » 23 Mar 2016 08:12

Thats Phillip , as much as I hate to say.
We have him in a box - Russia and all things Russian lover.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gyan » 23 Mar 2016 08:43

CAG Reports have pointed out that Israeli LGB have miss rate twice of Paveways. So unlike in Hollywood LGBs do miss targets in real world.

Also 36 months is time required for production of long lead items which were/should have been ordered in 2006, like engines etc. For assembly of airframe it should only be One year.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Austin » 23 Mar 2016 08:57

Gyan wrote:CAG Reports have pointed out that Israeli LGB have miss rate twice of Paveways. So unlike in Hollywood LGBs do miss targets in real world.


Can you post the CAG report which says that ?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 23 Mar 2016 09:52

Gyan wrote:...

Also 36 months is time required for production of long lead items which were/should have been ordered in 2006, like engines etc. For assembly of airframe it should only be One year.


How can you order parts when final SOP specs for IOC-2 haven't been finalized? IOC-2 came about Dec 20, 2013 (more than 7-years later than what you are pointing out). During that time, LCA went through enormous changes. Where did you find that info that it should only take one year to assemble an airframe made of thousands of parts being supplied by hundreds of SMEs? Long lead time is inclusive of everybody in the supply chain. Everyone needs time to shop for raw materials, invest in plant expansion, etc. and all of these parts need to arrive after passing quality checks to the assembly floor at the right intervals. Any one of the part suppliers/manufactures could halt the entire line if they fail to deliver. That's why everything takes time to get it to a stringent quality level and stabilization; only after that should an expansion of production rate be attempted.

Besides during the last decade, HAL/ADA were manufacturing 16 test vehicles (TD1/2; PV1/2/3/5; LSP1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8; NP1/2) to different standards. All of the LSPs were post 2006, between 2007 and 2013. LSP-1 flew in April, 2007. Are you confusing 2006 as the date for production order? If so, those were for 8 LSPs.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby tsarkar » 23 Mar 2016 10:36

Akshay Kapoor wrote:
Singha wrote:let us not forget the IN Commander who refused to sign off on the Talwar shtil issue and returned to india was killed by a hit and run vehicle while jogging in new delhi a few months later. no culprit was ever found. delhi is encircled and under siege by a army of defence dalals with help from inside also.
T Sarkar sir, is this correct ?

Yes, Commander Nawaz Ahmed was jogging in Delhi when hit by a truck.

http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/2003/0 ... 980300.htm

Naval Commander dies in mishap

By Our Staff Reporter

NEW DELHI JUNE 20. A 35-year-old naval Commander, Nawaz Ahmed, posted as Deputy Director at Naval Headquarters here, was crushed under the wheels of a private water tanker at Chanakyapuri in New Delhi yesterday. The tanker driver and his helper are at large.

As was his daily routine, Commander Ahmed went out for a walk at 6 this morning. Near the Thai Embassy in the diplomatic enclave he was knocked down by the water tanker belonging to the Central Public Works Department which was on its way to supply water to Sanskriti School.

Some passers-by who witnessed the incident gave chase to the tanker driver, Ravinder Singh, and his helper, but the duo managed to flee after abandoning the vehicle.

Commander Ahmed was taken to Lohia Hospital where he was declared dead. He is survived by his wife, Fiza, who is a teacher, and a 10-year-old daughter, Nehan.

His colleague, Commander Saini, said Commander Ahmed was a very bright officer. "He was presented the Sword-of-Honour during his pre-Commissioned training. He was a gold medallist throughout. He was awarded gold medals for excellence in use of weapons and in the Defence Services Staff College at Wellington,'' he said.

As Deputy Director at Naval Headquarters, Commander Ahmed was formulating policies for induction of staff in Naval Services.

The Chanakyapuri police have registered a case of causing death due to rash and negligent driving and launched a hunt for Ravinder and his helper. The seized water tanker, which is registered in Haryana, belongs to Jai Prakash Saini. He is being questioned to find out Ravinder's whereabouts.

According to a press release issued by the Defence Wing of the Press Information Bureau, Commander Ahmed was a highly dedicated officer with an outstanding service record and had specialised in missiles and gunnery warfare. An alumnus of the National Defence Academy, he served at sea for almost 17 years of his service and held challenging appointments.

His postings included Commissioning Gunnery Officer of three new ships and the command of INS Vinash, a missile corvette. "The demise of the officer is a severe and irreparable loss to the Navy,'' it said.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gyan » 23 Mar 2016 10:58

8 LSPs were ordered in 2001-2003.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Mar 2016 11:05

Gyan wrote:8 LSPs were ordered in 2001-2003.


But thier specs were not frozen and it was in Development stage.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Khalsa » 23 Mar 2016 12:45

I am real sad to see what tsarkar has posted and brought before us.
If true then Lord be Damned .... this nexus has infiltrated at the highest and lowest levels.

We need to be taken off these drugs by NaMo else God Help us

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Austin » 23 Mar 2016 13:20

AFAIK The IN officially has mentioned that it was just an accident and no suspicious wrong doing was found there and I doubt any single person has a say on such things no matter how senior he may be in hierarchy

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby habal » 23 Mar 2016 13:22

what do you expect them to say ??

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Austin » 23 Mar 2016 13:22

Read in Flight Global the NEZ of Python-5 and Derby is deadly combo once a target enters into the overlapping zone of both these missile firing both at the target is a 100 % kill and no amount of manouvers or countermeasure can let the target escape.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Austin » 23 Mar 2016 13:24

habal wrote:what do you expect them to say ??


Like I said in the Armed Forces No Single Person makes a decision there is a board which decides based on documents/results at its disposal.

Once a ex CNS told us that even he cannot approve any deal even if he wants to without explicit approval of the IN Board thats looking into it and MOD official

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby KBDagha » 23 Mar 2016 13:41

Tejas not singled out during post-Iron Fist briefing: IAF......

Read more at: http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/ind ... s-1.947890
http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/ind ... s-1.947890

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby tsarkar » 23 Mar 2016 13:44

Austin wrote:AFAIK The IN officially has mentioned that it was just an accident and no suspicious wrong doing was found there

Can you share any such official statement?

Because a road accident in civilian jurisdiction is beyond IN investigative authority. So IN cannot issue a statement for something it has not investigated.

The driver & cleaner were never found. The address in the DL was a fake address in Bihar.

Austin wrote:Like I said in the Armed Forces No Single Person makes a decision there is a board which decides based on documents/results at its disposal. Once a ex CNS told us that even he cannot approve any deal even if he wants to without explicit approval of the IN Board thats looking into it and MOD official

You're right about decision makers. However, Technical Evaluators are few. From the CAG report I posted earlier http://saiindia.gov.in/sites/default/fi ... ter1_5.pdf

Another supplementary agreement was concluded in November 2001 for deputation of Delivery Acceptance Team (DAT) of 15 Indian specialists to carry out delivery acceptance of each frigate. The time for delivery acceptance of a frigate was 60 days.

That leaves 1-2 evaluators per function (Engineering, Electrical, Gunnery, etc) as evaluator.


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