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"Mirage 2000 upgrade is berry expensive because india got special new engine upgrades"
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absolutely.. cost factor alone is enough.arthuro wrote:The junior defence minister brushed aside a suggestion that at least six indigenously made Light Combat Aircraft Tejas can be bought for the price of one Rafale plane, saying both the aircraft were totally different in nature and that IAF needed both.
MaharathiArjun wrote:36 Rafale's with 90% availability I think these guys can easily prevent any kargil type misadventure from porkies and chinis.
Seems costly but this is to ensure any misadventure can be dealt with swift response and minimum causalities to India.
Hopefully GOI can push frenchie's to let us integrate Mini Brahmos with rafale's.
Karan M wrote:That Parikrama guy is quoting Parsoon Sengoopta in the def.pk thread. Enough said.
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"Mirage 2000 upgrade is berry expensive because india got special new engine upgrades"![]()
Bhaskar_T wrote:Tell me that such expensive (and one of the greatest - don't debate on this - IAF has done a detailed study for about 2 years based on 750 parameters) fighters making up 2 squadrons will be based in NE against China. None in BRF has remotely attempted/done any lungi dance since many months/years on this Rafale thing. Probably, confirmation of putting these assets in NE will make me do bit of Lungi Dance.
Cant help but laugh at that PR
Junior in context of raksha mantri himself, obviously the deal is large enough to merit someone high up, but not highest that's all.Viv S wrote:CM, the MoS is not exactly a junior MoD official. Second in order of precedence within the MoD; perhaps third in terms of influence (after the Defence Secretary).Cain Marko wrote:^ so, that parkram chap was on the spot down to the nuts bolts saying statement will be given by junior mod official not mp...
+1Karan M wrote: #3
- "Indian DPSUs are a social project" because they are PSUs. Which again ignores the fact that defense is a social project everywhere in the world.
Same reason why Russia does not want to buy Brahmos but will buy Yakhont.
Same reason why Milan2 indigenization is capped at some 80%, rest import in perpetuity.
Same reason why Israel sells us IR detectors but will not consult the expertise to use them optimally.
Every country wants to protect its defense set up at the expense of others.
Err...this is getting a bit bizarre.. the MOS is not junior by any means. The dude was clearly wrong about MOS. MOS is as high as it gets.Cain Marko wrote:Junior in context of raksha mantri himself, obviously the deal is large enough to merit someone high up, but not highest that's all.
If he does have connections, why would he repeat the BS Prasun speaks? Anyone with any connections would know easily that Prasun is fibbing most of the time to get eyeballs to his blog and get some attention.Karan, I have no idea about this guys connection to prasun, but that means little. You don't need to be sound in tech know-how or in journalistic integrity to have connections....least of all in the ddm space
The Meteor is a very positive development. The IAF FINALLY gets its desired silver bullet. Rest time, will determine.Vipul wrote:Got this link from the unmentionable forum.
-Thirty percent offsets will be embarked for future military aviation research and development (R&D) programs and the remaining 20 percent will be with Indian industries making components for Rafale.
-Safran and Thales will join Dassault in providing state-of-the-art technologies in stealth, radar, thrust vectoring for missiles, and materials for electronics and micro-electronics,
-IAF wants and includes Mica air-to-air missile, Scalp cruise missile and Meteor beyond-visual-range missile and precision-guided munitions.
-An IAF source said India-specific Rafale aircraft will be able to carry 10 tons of weaponry.
-The first Rafale is expected to be delivered within 20 months of signing the G2G agreement.
-There is a long-term requirement of about 10 squadrons of Rafale aircraft
It really depends on what was "excluded" to get to the above savings of $3.2 billion. As shown in the past practices, a whole set of things are left for future to be negotiated as separate smaller deals. Hardly anyone keeps track of it after the first major deal, which gets all the limelight. TIFWIW.
True, but I think he was just making it clear that the dm won't make the announcement, but someone lower down..Karan M wrote:
Err...this is getting a bit bizarre.. the MOS is not junior by any means. The dude was clearly wrong about MOS. MOS is as high as it gets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Cou ... s_of_State
Do you think Jayant Sinha, Kiren Rijiju, Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi, Prakash Javadekar, Piyush Goyal, Rajiv Pratap Rudy, Bandaru Dattatreya, Giriraj Singhs are nobodies or relatively small fish in the overall scheme of things?? They are all peers of Rao Inderjit Singh.
can't speak for him...but seems like he was on to something. but time will tell, the man says indian raffle engines might have slightly different specs from the adla.
If he does have connections, why would he repeat the BS Prasun speaks? Anyone with any connections would know easily that Prasun is fibbing most of the time to get eyeballs to his blog and get some attention.
Also what kind of person goes and talks about all this on a Pakistani blog moment the deal is done? Does he have any common sense?
Because there is no long term "body/organization/group of people" in India to build strategies beneficial to India, strategies which require a multi government, multi party length of time possibly measured in decades to give results. The US has it's Deep State, the UK has it's Old Boy Network, the French have their network of Grandes Ecoles graduates, China has a collaborative nexus betwen it's Communist Party and the Armed Forces, heck even Pakistan has it's Army. These institutions in these countries guarantee the continuation of policies irrespective of which political party /government is in power. It is no wonder that every single member of the P-5 has it's own version of the Deep State and hence they have reached where they have. In contrast in India e.g. a covert capability built up at great effort by one Government is canceled by the next, no continuation of policies and hence no long term benefit for the country.IOW, why do mad dog strategies work for others but not for us?
That part was always know , the IAF had zeroed it on Rafale way back in 2005 and M2K folks had told this first hand , Raffy was always what they wanted ,it simply got bogged into political quagmireKaran M wrote:PR apart look at why Kakarat put it there. It means if BJP is announcing it, (hopefully????) the deal is final. Not final pending review which will lead to final decision at DAC to clear final negotiation for final purchase.
Considering IAF is in the process of buying these triple digit SAM's , they would develop tactics to deal with these SAM. more ever the SAM belts are layered so it would be a multiple array of different class of SAM and EW/Decoys stuff that a fighter/cruise missile have to deal with , not to mention things like CAP.Cain Marko wrote:Good to know that the scalp and the meteor are on the cards...would be very interesting to see some analysis of scalp against uber s300 types..
Agree it would be back to the 80's if we just end up buying 2 squadron and then end up with expensive facilities , weapons ,MRO etc to just maintain , They should go for the full 126 AC and build the complete capability.ldev wrote:All that I can say is that buying just 36 Rafale will be monumentally foolish. Now that GOI has jumped into the sea, may as well swim the ocean and get another 90 at least.
Also, the M2000 upgrade cost $50 million each, these puppies will be at least $100 million each to upgrade, now that we are intimately familiar with French prices.
But I was assured Russia is such good friend and sanction proof . . .Philip wrote:The threat of Russia taking back its Akula and other JV programmes is a very real one according to BK if India goes any further with signing on the dotted line,allowing the US to effectively have a foothold on the subcontinent.
Yeahppp I am with KakaJi.Kakkaji wrote:Whatever brings ghis endless saga to a close. Either go forward and sign a contract, or cancel this deal once for all.
they are and will continue to be so long as some red lines are not crossed.GeorgeWelch wrote:But I was assured Russia is such good friend and sanction proof . . .Philip wrote:The threat of Russia taking back its Akula and other JV programmes is a very real one according to BK if India goes any further with signing on the dotted line,allowing the US to effectively have a foothold on the subcontinent.
HAL on mission mode to ramp up Tejas production
The US treaty may prove to be much more of a bad deal than this.
Dont see the reason why they need another line , when we have the Tejas ready ....so how many class of fighter will they maintain ? Are we back to the circus of 80's ?Bhaskar_T wrote:Nothing worth in below link so not quoting the text.
20 April 2016 -
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/move-ove ... ts-1397555
I guess Mirage 2000, Mig 29 and Jaguars will be replaced by rafales gradually to make up for the medium category (or another type but with a rafale deal that would seem odd).srai wrote:^^^
Medium category will have 4 types (Mirage-2000, MiG-29, Jaguar and Rafale) in itself.