Levant crisis - III

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Lilo
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Lilo »

There is another video of a Chinook being hit set to the BGM of Polyushka polye.
Both the Cobra and Chinook videos were uploaded on the internets yesterday.
This an old video. sorry folks.
https://youtu.be/ZThGtBLeDuU

Below are the screengrabs from a longer video of the Cobra.The guy finds the cobra in his eye piece while crouching ,switches on tracking and then stands to take position.Both the helicopters didn't deploy any countermeasures or didn't even show any maneuvering to get away.Does it mean that they didn't even detect that a missile is up in the air?
https://youtu.be/pXwqTYHu1IA
Image
Image

Also in both the videos there is a whirring sound (from the launcher?) as the target is being tracked.
Last edited by Lilo on 15 May 2016 17:19, edited 1 time in total.
UlanBatori
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by UlanBatori »

Hmm! The Chinook shot appeared to go straight towards it, caught up from the rear. The Chinook rotors (at least one: the other may have broken off? There was a blip in the video) kept turning although the plane was on fire. No actual crash on video? Crew may have burned to death on that one before it "landed".

The Cobra one makes more sense now: The missile's algorithm must be very sophisticated? The shooter almost falls back under the recoil as the tube swings way up during the launch, and the rocket prefers to climb high and sharply before turning and coming down towards the Cobra. Hard to know what to do even if one gets a missile warning - from where? It's not coming off the ground, it's coming from the side and way up.

I still say that was a skillful video patch-up job. Better than the first, short one once they saw what was wrong with that. Wonder what's with all the high-res video during the shooting (both on the TOW videos and now this). Do the arms suppliers insist on these? Or are they for action analysis to improve training?
Austin
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Austin »

Interesting video of Chinook hope it managed to land though looks badly hit and smoking.

Yes without maws its just the pilot gut instinct to know he is under attack from a passive IR homer , need MAWS as a must these days.

The noise is the tone of target , a good tone indicated the missile IR seeker has good view of target and is ready to launch.
Austin
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Austin »

Ultan , a 360 maws would tell the pilot where the attack is coming from and can dispense cmds system while the pilot would take hard turn to shake off missile.

It's better then to have nothing and be a sitting duck.

More sophisticated is to have MAWS/ CMDS/ DIRCM combo , the Russian ka-52 and Mi-8 deployed in Syria have these , not sure about Mi-28
UlanBatori
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by UlanBatori »

Austin, how can the maws see/hear if a thingy small enough to have come out of a 4-inch duct is coming from an odd direction with no exhaust plume and no active radar seeker? Just curious. Surely it cannot have enough resolution to actually see a speck coming straight towards it in the middle of all that background clutter? Doppler radar all round?

The Chinook was not just smoking - there was a bright yellow-orange fire visible for an instant long after the hit. Maybe a secondary explosion. It's a huge vehicle with a lot of battle-damage capability, but the fire seemed all-consuming, I don't see how anyone can survive that in close proximity. Has Erdoganistan announced that small mechanical problem yet?
deejay
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by deejay »

Heat Seeking missiles home into to the engine exhaust where they detect maximum heat. In a moving target, they may not hit the exhaust always as the target keeps moving and the collision may happen near or around this.

A helicopter without MAWS needs to be aware of threat environment, reduce loiter over area at clear heights and not present itself as target for a sustained period. There are procedures which can help reduce chances of missile strike but no one can guarantee,

Both hits on Turkish helicopters happened on the same day. These were the first MANPAD usage in the area against TuAF. Pilots were working in leisure. I am sure after this TuAF helicopters won't do holding patterns in clear site without continuously belching flares after this.

Now that MANPADS are available on both sides of Syrian border with Turkey, Errdogan will have tasted some of his own medicine. PKK will do well not to move onto civilian air targets.

BTW: The Chinook really fought off the attack well. I am not sure why the pilots did not initiate immediate recovery to safety - maybe too many hostile forces below and not adequate friendlies. However, the helicopter was definitely flying under own power long after the hit and a landing could have been attempted in friendlier ground conditions.
Singha
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Singha »

i think the belly of chinook was hit, perhaps one of the fuel tanks but neither of the engines on top. if one engine goes kaput i think it would exhibit the same fuselage spin as a normal heli losing its tail rotor?
the fuel tanks seem on the outboard canoe thing between the two sets of wheels...its compartmented and probably equipped with sealing systems and fire fighting for damages....one cell could have been set on fire by the missile.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... 4ebb62.jpg
Austin
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Austin »

UlanBatori wrote:Austin, how can the maws see/hear if a thingy small enough to have come out of a 4-inch duct is coming from an odd direction with no exhaust plume and no active radar seeker? Just curious. Surely it cannot have enough resolution to actually see a speck coming straight towards it in the middle of all that background clutter? Doppler radar all round?
MAWS are either IR based seeker or in case of Russi UV/Optical based one , They have their own false probabilty rate of detection but are capable of detecting small missile probably their plume or the missile itself
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Singha »

ISIS raiding party with a organic bulldozer to breach a opening in defensive berm in deir azzor.
Image

===
The Islamic State of Iraq and Al-Sham (ISIS) launched another massive assault inside the provincial capital of the Deir Ezzor Governorate on Saturday, targeting several sites that were under the control of the Syrian Armed Forces. ISIS began the offensive by seizing the Al-Assad Hospital, SyriaTel Hill, Sadkop Oil Factory, Deir Ezzor Cemetery, Fire Brigade Base, and Grain Silos from the Syrian Armed Forces in Deir Ezzor City. Following their success at the aforementioned sites, ISIS attempted to capture the Firat University buildings inside Deir Ezzor City; however, this would prove to be a fatal error for the terrorist group as they found themselves spread too thin and susceptible to a Syrian Army counter-attack. The Syrian Arab Army’s 104th Airborne Brigade of the Republican Guard – backed by the National Defense Forces (NDF) and Hashd Al-Sha’abi (Iraqi paramilitary) – would indeed launch a counter-assault in western Deir Ezzor to recapture all of the sites they lost to ISIS. In a matter of two hours, the Syrian Armed Forces would recover all of the sites they lost, including the Al-Assad Hospital. ISIS’ offensive on Saturday proved costly, as they reportedly lost 40+ combatants during their failed assault in Deir Ezzor City.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/sy ... eir-ezzor/ | Al-Masdar News
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Singha »

Singha
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Singha »

Image
Singha
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Singha »

IS attempt to take T4 airbase on the Homs Palmyra axis has been repulsed for the most part...they tried to creep in from the north
UlanBatori
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by UlanBatori »

What is that very long thing on the back end of the Russian plane, and how do they land/takeoff without hitting the runway?
Lisa
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Lisa »

In the top video, it that really a Chinook or a Boeing Vertol CH-46 Sea Knight?

Added later,

I think I am right, ie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVbr_VyVqeE
Lilo
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Lilo »

^
Lisa ji,
Well spotted.
It seems turkey hasn't yet taken delivery of the chinooks it ordered from massa.
The kurd nationalists pulled a fast one on the "chinook" video.
Austin
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Austin »

UlanBatori wrote:What is that very long thing on the back end of the Russian plane, and how do they land/takeoff without hitting the runway?
That is the sting which houses APU , Landing Chutes and below the sting is CMDS seen in link below

Image
TSJones
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by TSJones »

it's a big plane with big landing gear. those rear tires are prolly 5 feet tall.


Image
deejay
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by deejay »

^^^ Main landing gear has been positioned sufficiently aft to reduce tail touch which was so common with Mig 23s and Mig 27s. Ground Clearance is high to accommodate a bulky underbelly payload like a DT.
Austin
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Austin »

Video shows Navy Seal's death was result of intense combat with Isis

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... are_btn_tw
Singha
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Singha »

A lone tu160 blackjack escorted by two flankers devastated a abandoned airbase which isis had taken over.
Word around water cooler was tens of 1000/500kg bombs in b1 style...so rus is doing the vital rack and targeting mods for the conventional mission on these heavies
UlanBatori
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by UlanBatori »

Look at the belly-view of the blue plane above. Look carefully at the inlets of those pointy mijjiles, one under each engine inlet.

Aren't those shaped for hypersonic air-breathing? ("Boojemann conical-flow." etc) What mijjiles are those - they must be well over Mach 5?
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Gyan »

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan collapsed as USA/Pak supplied Manpads to guerillas while Soviets did not return the favor in Baluchistan. It seems Putin may not make the same mistake. Firing Manpads is a non trivial task and requires lot of training. So PKK may be getting lot of professional help.
TSJones
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by TSJones »

Austin
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Austin »

UlanBatori wrote:Look at the belly-view of the blue plane above. Look carefully at the inlets of those pointy mijjiles, one under each engine inlet.

Aren't those shaped for hypersonic air-breathing? ("Boojemann conical-flow." etc) What mijjiles are those - they must be well over Mach 5?
Those are ramjet Mach 3 , kh-31 below the air intake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-31
Lisa
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Lisa »

Americans love freedom (except where it involves people we don't like :wink: )

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-36296551

Nelson Mandela: CIA tip-off led to 1962 Durban arrest

TSJ, surely you wont let my second post asking you for an opinion pass without comment.
TSJones
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by TSJones »

Lisa wrote:Americans love freedom (except where it involves people we don't like :wink: )

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-36296551

Nelson Mandela: CIA tip-off led to 1962 Durban arrest

TSJ, surely you wont let my second post asking you for an opinion pass without comment.
thanks for the absolutely irrelevant, to this thread, message.

although I'm sure you'll come up with some specious, empty headed excuse for relevancy.
Lisa
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Lisa »

Thank you :)
Austin
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Austin »

Seems like the same helicopter shot down video was put up by Kurds on March 1st on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-q2GlPnwq0
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by shiv »

UlanBatori wrote:Look at the belly-view of the blue plane above. Look carefully at the inlets of those pointy mijjiles, one under each engine inlet.

Aren't those shaped for hypersonic air-breathing? ("Boojemann conical-flow." etc) What mijjiles are those - they must be well over Mach 5?
Kh 31? mach 3.5?
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by rsingh »

Remember seeng clips of mujahideen downing Russian copter with much fun fare. there were smuggled VHS tapes doing rounds in Moscow during Peristroika period. I will not be surprised if Ruskie are paying back in kind.
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Austin »

rsingh wrote:Remember seeng clips of mujahideen downing Russian copter with much fun fare. there were smuggled VHS tapes doing rounds in Moscow during Peristroika period. I will not be surprised if Ruskie are paying back in kind.
I doubt that , No one wants a Manpads in the hands of Terrorist as experience from Afghan war has shown they can change their loyality over night , what can shoot a chopper can easily shoot a civil airliner of any country

Sa-18 proliferation is as wide as stinger , specially with Libya there are known documented case of 100's of SA-18 gone missing post rebel take over after fall of Gaddafi , I wont be surprised dozens of them has ended in the hand of kurds at a price

I still wonder why they bough Gadaffi down when he was the most western friendly and came to terms with West ,what they by that achieved beats me
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Singha »

Deir azor hospital line of daesh bodies
Another batch successful in search of 72

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CilEeHBUkAAdO00.jpg
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by UlanBatori »

The early report was that "at least 20" SAA ppl were killed in the initial attack. Desert surrounding Deir-ez Zor needs quite a few visits by Tu-160s and SMERCH systems.
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Singha »

stalingrad continues...huge guy on right is a "shabiha" enforcer turned SAA from his physique.

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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Shreeman »

Austin wrote:
rsingh wrote:Remember seeng clips of mujahideen downing Russian copter with much fun fare. there were smuggled VHS tapes doing rounds in Moscow during Peristroika period. I will not be surprised if Ruskie are paying back in kind.
I doubt that , No one wants a Manpads in the hands of Terrorist as experience from Afghan war has shown they can change their loyality over night , what can shoot a chopper can easily shoot a civil airliner of any country

Sa-18 proliferation is as wide as stinger , specially with Libya there are known documented case of 100's of SA-18 gone missing post rebel take over after fall of Gaddafi , I wont be surprised dozens of them has ended in the hand of kurds at a price

I still wonder why they bough Gadaffi down when he was the most western friendly and came to terms with West ,what they by that achieved beats me
Austin,

As the learned mullah russullah will testify, there is a holy obligation to put things up peoples' butts. Just like start out with a dunking int a pale of holy water. As a child qaddphi never got has shower, let alone a bath. There is not much water in the dessert, is a rich very oily cake today. So dont overdo on the salad, and the main course. Anyway, as I was saying qaddaphi missed taking his baths. Unlike saudi arapia, where zamzam cola is abundant. But obligations catchup (correct spelling ket-ch-up: something you put on a cracker if you are poor and dont have cheese, just like the water shortage menshuned). It wasnt personal, just orientashun every western dick-tator goes through. "We" came, "inside" him, we saw, and you know he just sort of died. Just tough luck reslly, there wasnt ben-gay-ji available to stop the bleeding. They are just fragile little things, there was another a liitle farther east of him in sort of the middle of the west. And he said, my neck hurts. And before "we" could apply trak-shun, he sort of died too. Right there on the training video. Waste of film.

You always tend to blame the western medicine. Because its all well researched and side effects are well known. Russian medicine or chinese rhino horns powder? What abput that. Have you thought about the lack of toilets in south asia? Bill gates has. He wakes up in th morning and says -- malaria! Does putin do that? What about the chibok girls? Has putin brought them back? No? Also those eleven jin pegs? Anyone talking about them? No, its all western medication is bad -- my intestines fell out and the doctor left at long knife (pronounced kay-nee-phay) in me. Sometimes, that happens. You dont make a federal case of it. We all have bad days, if qadaphi had a stronger constitushun, the kayneephay would have made no impact. People walk around with kayneephays in their butts all thr time.

chill, dude. its all ok.
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Singha »

CBS News

Iran cracks down on female models posing without headscarves online
CBS News - ‎7 hours ago‎
TEHRAN, Iran -- Iranian police have arrested eight people in a new crackdown targeting "un-Islamic acts" online such as female models posting images of themselves without their hair covered, state media reported Monday, part of a larger cultural
Singha
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Singha »

Indonesia - woman lashed for standing too close to a paraya man
http://www.mondonews.net/NewsPreview/87 ... ale-friend
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Singha »

another egyptair flight goes down in mediterranean sea.
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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Singha »

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Re: Levant crisis - III

Post by Singha »

imo the syrian regime is making a lot of mis steps.
their general staff cannot decide which should be the priority and keep muddling around. some would be there for loyalty only at their high post.
a lot of well equipped republican guard units are deployed as the palace guard of sorts in damascus and keep fighting meaningless small tactical battles in east ghouta/daraa etc.

they wanted a aleppo offensive inside a populated city against deeply entrenched rebels which went nowhere.

they put in iraqis, iranis and hezbollah in south aleppo to absorb blow after blow from the heavily fed JN/Shams ... with no clear plan or support to advance...finally the hezbollah has got fed up of this mode and withdrawn all their units back to the main cities.

deir azzor continues to hold on precariously..ISIS is trying to create a cleavage between the main city+airport and the brigade 137 base. murderous fighting continues.

they did not clear the hills above and behind palmyra in time and the poisonous ISIS pocket in east homs fell upon T4, shaer and jabal fields...being beaten back with great efforts now by tiger and desert hawk forces. the russians only work with these two forces usually as they know they will fight fair and hard.

seems to me the republican guard except those in deir azzor are taking it easy and letting the bulk of fighting be done by the foreign militias , NDF and the desert hawk and tiger forces ....

the syrian currency is at its worst point ever.

ISIS continues to have a free run all over the place, because the JN has been given a free run by NATO and their mingled allies the Shams Front and JAI are not even on designated terror list.

for all their noises the kurds have even taken manbij yet.

its the iraqi army and PMF who are on the march and quietly clearing a lot of swamp water back east.
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