India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 09 Jun 2016 21:12

Apparently selfies were prohibited. Else Modi would have been there for days.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jun 2016 21:49

snahata wrote:success is a bad teacher, failure is a better teacher but do not have too many failures. what is happening in the world vs a vs India is reason for happiness but also a great reason for worry. If the western powers decide that instead of China India will be the world,s factory even if partially china will not take it lying down. An attack on India by China becomes that much more likely as it,s economy suffers. Ultimately most wars are about economy.

Time to pay utmost attention to our military. All loopholes need to be plugged soon.

This is my biggest worry.
India has to pay with blood for West's mistakes of becoming the Sorcerer's Apprentice in waking and arming the dragon.
So have to proceed cautiously and armed with eyes wide open.
No delusions.

The prize is huge to overturn and bring back Asia for Asians.

In the end Communist China is a European mentality power as long it has a CPC.
CPC has two futures if it confronts: wins or gets defeated.
It cant win as long as Indian armed forces maa ka dudh piya.
So if it loses it gets Ceausescu treatment or reforms itself like FSU.

A third way is it sees the writing on the wall and befriends Modi and postpones its demise.

Die eventually it has to as Marxism is alien to Asian and human values.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 09 Jun 2016 22:30

ramana wrote:
snahata wrote:success is a bad teacher, failure is a better teacher but do not have too many failures. what is happening in the world vs a vs India is reason for happiness but also a great reason for worry. If the western powers decide that instead of China India will be the world,s factory even if partially china will not take it lying down. An attack on India by China becomes that much more likely as it,s economy suffers. Ultimately most wars are about economy.

Time to pay utmost attention to our military. All loopholes need to be plugged soon.
This is my biggest worry.
India has to pay with blood for West's mistakes of becoming the Sorcerer's Apprentice in waking and arming the dragon.
So have to proceed cautiously and armed with eyes wide open.
No delusions.

The prize is huge to overturn and bring back Asia for Asians.

In the end Communist China is a European mentality power as long it has a CPC.
CPC has two futures if it confronts: wins or gets defeated.
It cant win as long as Indian armed forces maa ka dudh piya.
So if it loses it gets Ceausescu treatment or reforms itself like FSU.

A third way is it sees the writing on the wall and befriends Modi and postpones its demise.

Die eventually it has to as Marxism is alien to Asian and human values.

don't discount the "fifth" option. Even the mighty IG was brought down before her time. and another promising non-Nehru initiator like LBS also suffered the same fate.

One does not know how deep the rabbit hole goes in the Indian State apparatus.

P.S. I do think that if the State fails another leader of that caliber (aka NaMo), civil war will be inevitable. the collapse if public faith in the State and its institutions will be catastrophic. Hope it doesn't come to that.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 09 Jun 2016 22:38

Narendra Modi delivers masterclass; has US Congress eating out of his hand

Narendra Modi's oratory skills have never been in doubt but while delivering an extempore speech addressing a joint session of US Congress at the Capitol Hill on Wednesday, the prime minister transcended the geographical boundaries of a head of state and appeared as a world leader, a global statesman and a man deeply aware of India's and his own place in history.
And in doing so, he captivated with such élan an audience of hardened US lawmakers for a lengthy period of 47 minutes that his speech was interrupted by no less than 10 standing ovations and 69 rounds of vociferous, spontaneous applause.

"Distinguished members, not just in Afghanistan, but elsewhere in South Asia, and globally, terrorism remains the biggest threat.
"In the territory stretching from West of India's border to Africa, it may go by different names, from Laskhar-e-Taiba, to Taliban to (Islamic State). But, it's philosophy is common: Of hate, murder and violence," said Modi.

So, Modi-ji is implementing the policy of naming and shaming Pakistan in international forums !

Political scientist and assistant professor at Georgetown University's Security Studies Program Dr C Christine Fair, author of the seminal book Fighting to the End: The Pakistan Army's Way of War, has written extensively on how Pakistan continues to deceive the US into delivering billions of dollars of aid and military assistance while supporting terrorism and being an irresponsible nuclear weapons state.
She thinks Pakistan is able to do so because it perpetrates terror through varied proxies and uses "soft power” to cultivate American sympathies through "hospitality," well-spoken lies and military tourism. (taking foreign correspondents to LOC and then wining (not sure about that these days !) and dining them
And this is exactly what Modi pointed out to the US Congress on Wednesday.
"The need of the hour is for us to deepen our security cooperation. And, base it on a policy that isolates those who harbour, support and sponsor terrorists; that does not distinguish between 'good' and 'bad' terrorists; and that delinks religion from terrorism."

And mindful of his pulpit, he added a line which he knew the Americans would love to hear.
"These are not just aspirations; they are goals to be reached in a finite timeframe. And, to be achieved with a light carbon footprint, with greater emphasis on renewables."
Expectedly, he received another standing ovation.

This was Modi at his eloquent best, an orator par excellence and a politician at the top of his game. America was owned.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 10 Jun 2016 02:11

Obviously US lawmakers know something we don't-they do not generally give such a reception to anyone, Margaret Thatcher and the Queen (if she ever enters the house), maybe.

There seems to be a very solid understanding of an alliance-the defining relationship of the next fifty years.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Jun 2016 02:23

sanjaykumar wrote:Obviously US lawmakers know something we don't-they do not generally give such a reception to anyone, Margaret Thatcher and the Queen (if she ever enters the house), maybe.

There seems to be a very solid understanding of an alliance-the defining relationship of the next fifty years.

seems more like they are playing us.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 10 Jun 2016 03:08

Nah it would require too much of a concerted effort to play us. The reaction of the US lawmakers are genuine. They seem very positive and receptive to the idea of a US-Indo alliance.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 10 Jun 2016 03:13

Americans don't 'play' anyone.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Jun 2016 03:14

On his speech being 'extempore'. He used a word 'bedrock' and I thought 'hmmm, it is not an everyday word, let alone for an Indian politician'. Either his vocabulary is extraordinary, or he memorized the speech. If he memorized then his ability to recall and orate is beyond extraordinary. He is like the Param super-computer while Rahul is like the Pentium III running Windows 98.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Jun 2016 03:29

Windows 98 version 1 with many bugs that require constant reboots.

Sorry, could not resist it.

I think he had his speech in front, but opted to speak without it. Also, Biden fidgeting with papers, I think, was Modi's speech that was given to him and perhaps Ryan. Not sure, just a guess.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 10 Jun 2016 03:54

The Chinese communist part apparatchi nks are probably kicking each other in the nuts; wonder how Pakis are doing.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 10 Jun 2016 04:09

ramana wrote:
arun wrote:Alyssa Ayres thrashes New York Times June 4 Editorial Board article that called for the US to oppose India’s membership to the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG). Ayres dismisses the NYT article by saying “the American paper of record should ground its arguments in an appraisal of the complete facts”.
India, Global Governance, and the Nuclear Suppliers Group
The referenced New York Times June 4 Editorial Board article is linked below:
No Exceptions for a Nuclear India
Pro and anti India are duking it out. Let the pro prevail

NYT is a windbag resting on past laurels like the Chindu.
NYT is also mouthpiece of UK Labour type thinking in US.

Another telling fact is that they disabled comments on the NYT article. I'm sure they knew what they were in for if the enabled comments.

A comment from the cfr article in the meantime:

Being a non-signatory of the NPT has not prevented a nation from entering the NSG before. France did not sign the NPT until as late as 1992, well over a decade before they were an NSG member.

Therefore, the current ‘India must sign NPT to join NSG’ is simply a China-led dog and pony show. China has multiple intents. It wishes to keep India out, of course, since they loathe the idea of an powerful India.

But just as importantly, they want to demonstrate their power over an organization, by trying to stop something the US desires. By keeping India out, they send the US the message that they are the big dog of the NSG who can sabotage anything the US tries, if they so wish.

It is therefore in the US interest to outmaneuver them for multiple reasons.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 10 Jun 2016 07:43

@jayapradeep it's a reflective one like this.it's simple reflective teleprompter. Connected to a pc or iPad. It's reflects the text on to the glass panel

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 10 Jun 2016 10:27

Mexico is a member of NSG? While I am sure they are pretty good with science and tech., is their membership a side effect of their having lot of U deposits? In a pnycase it is a welcome development, as far as I am concerned.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 10 Jun 2016 10:36

habal wrote:how many US lawmakers attended the session ? are there any numbers.

Looked pretty full. My WAG is 80% attendance.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 10 Jun 2016 11:48

ramana wrote: This is my biggest worry.
India has to pay with blood for West's mistakes of becoming the Sorcerer's Apprentice in waking and arming the dragon.
So have to proceed cautiously and armed with eyes wide open.
No delusions.

Chinese have easier targets than India to strike. The problem for eleven is he is trying to be Mao without being as hard as Mao was on dissent. I think he will pay for this with his life.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 10 Jun 2016 12:15

SwamyG wrote:On his speech being 'extempore'. He used a word 'bedrock' and I thought 'hmmm, it is not an everyday word, let alone for an Indian politician'. Either his vocabulary is extraordinary, or he memorized the speech. If he memorized then his ability to recall and orate is beyond extraordinary. He is like the Param super-computer while Rahul is like the Pentium III running Windows 98.

Its a babu written speech, not extempore.These international speeches are never extempore each word and nuance is carefully weighed and only then included.

Modi just understood and remembered and delivered it like a pro,despite the fact that public speaking in English is not really his natural strong point.
In this ability to do this i feel he has capacity similar to a satavadhani.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 10 Jun 2016 12:55

There are forwards floating around in FB asking people not to make fuss about him using teleprompter
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 1484264832

sum · Post by **sum** » 10 Jun 2016 12:59

There are forwards floating around in FB asking people not to make fuss about him using teleprompter
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 1484264832

^^ This is the only topic our self-loathing junta( of the INC and "minority" kind) got to discuss about the speech instead of actual points in the speech?

Truely there are some beyond repair folks in our desh!

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 10 Jun 2016 16:04

Lilo wrote:
Modi just understood and remembered and delivered it like a pro,despite the fact that public speaking in English is not really his natural strong point.
In this ability to do this i feel he has capacity similar to a satavadhani.

Amazing delivery for someone who is not a natural in English...all the pauses in the right places, especially during the lighter moments. Confirms yet again that Modi is a natural grass roots politician, who can transcend language and culture.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Jun 2016 16:08

Interesting take:

Quid Pro Quo: Will US Broker a Nuclear Deal Between India and China?

India, the United States and China likely to agree on a quid pro quo arrangement on membership in the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) for India, Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) for China and the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA) for the US.

Have no clue who this guy is (a Russian from Sputnik nonetheless), but this is how they horse trade. Modi is very, very good at such "deals".

Wrong thread, perhaps we need a thread dedicated to "Modi" now(?), but this guy will do things for India. He needs support at every level.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 10 Jun 2016 16:17

Sridhar K wrote:There are forwards floating around in FB asking people not to make fuss about him using teleprompter
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 1484264832

There is a very good reason for the Seculars to obsess about HOW Modi gave the speech. Basically they are still trying to convince themselves that Indian heirs to the British are still the best-suited to interact with the world for only they have English language skills, as that commodity is the sole inheritance of those who are the legitimate cultural high-born children of the Anglophone Whites and who love the British and then the Americans with all their hearts. How can a tea-seller hope to match the skills they inherited by birth, by being born virtually out of the poop of the Queen of Great Britain?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jun 2016 16:50

cyrus and malta being NSG members is indeed surprising. rest all have their reasons, being either NATO, vassals, wannabes, vast n-material deposits (brazil, kazakhstan)...I am surprised chad, niger and libya are not inside the tent as they too have vast reserves .. perhaps the problem was to find who really is their government as that region has always been ruled by warlords and desert raiding tribes

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 10 Jun 2016 17:07

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 10 Jun 2016 20:33

A reality check, amidst the hoo....haa.

Comparing and Rating Modi’s address to the US Congress

Modi, of course, was far clearer, and made himself understood, which Manmohan could not easily manage to do. This is no small thing considering how hidebound and parochial most US law makers are. Modi’s speech was received correctly with the regulation standing ovations, etc., but no great enthusiasm. What stuck in any Indian nationalist’s throat was his expression of gratitude for what — Washington’standard reaction to any terrorist incident, in this case, the 26/11 strike by Pakistan-based terrorists on Mumbai? Recall, in contrast, the Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu’s 2015 address to the US Congress — a no-nonsense speech where he didn’t plead for US understanding or help, merely explained his government’s harsh measures against the violence-prone Palestinians as proper and merited. The context was Obama Admin’s conspicuous cold-shouldering of Tel Aviv for its use of “excessive” force.

The other thing that stuck in my craw at least was his repeated positive references to the US sucking up Indian talent — praising US “innovation” that drew Indian “creativity”, etc. Modi made it sound as if this continuous decanting of prized intellectual resources from India to the US is a good thing, and something his government lays much store by and seeks to promote! In this respect it is best to remind ourselves to see how little the situation has changed from the time when Nehru in his address 67 years ago said: “I realise that self-help is the first condition of success for a nation, no less than for an individual. We are conscious that ours must be the primary effort and we shall seek succour from none to escape from any part of our own responsibility. But though our economic potential is great, its conversion into finished wealth will need much mechanical and technological aid.”

It is sobering and shameful to see India still seeking technological help from the US. What’s worse is Modi taking pride in the country losing its prized youthful engineering, scientific, and managerial talent to America simply because the bureaucratized Indian government over the decades monopolizing the fields of education, industry, and skilling has made such a mess of everything that young Indians are desperate to get the hell out of the country to make their futures anywhere abroad. And Modi, far from minimizing the role of government, has persisted with it, compounding the problems for the country and ensuring India is stuck in a morass of the government’s making.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 10 Jun 2016 20:48

ShauryaT wrote:A reality check, amidst the hoo....haa.

Reality is that if you are given only lemons, then make lemonade out of it. Modi can claim responsibility only for the last 2 years, all things considered. Why should he have to answer for all of history with its accompanying legacy and inertia?

Could he have done anything more than all that he is doing? May be a little here and there. Nothing would have fundamentally changed the fact that skilled Indians may still try to migrate to USA. So such are the lemons.

It is sobering and shameful to see India still seeking technological help from the US. What’s worse is Modi taking pride in the country losing its prized youthful engineering, scientific, and managerial talent to America simply because the bureaucratized Indian government over the decades monopolizing the fields of education, industry, and skilling has made such a mess of everything that young Indians are desperate to get the hell out of the country to make their futures anywhere abroad. And Modi, far from minimizing the role of government, has persisted with it, compounding the problems for the country and ensuring India is stuck in a morass of the government’s making.

Lots of standard "entrepreneurial" propaganda claiming markets can handle everything and everything trickles down to everybody. Government has a role to play, be it moderate or minimal. Too much inequality and poverty. Modi is making government intervention smart. That's the reality of it, and those thinking otherwise can stuff it.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 10 Jun 2016 20:49

^ the so called "young indians" are gone anyway... what did BK expect PM Modi to say about them rather than putting a positive spin on it ?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Jun 2016 21:39

NRao wrote:Windows 98 version 1 with many bugs that require constant reboots.

Sorry, could not resist it.

I think he had his speech in front, but opted to speak without it. Also, Biden fidgeting with papers, I think, was Modi's speech that was given to him and perhaps Ryan. Not sure, just a guess.

Ryan was more enthusiastic than Biden; saw his clapping when Biden did not.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 10 Jun 2016 21:39

Yes, the India diaspora across the world is most certainly something to be celebrated and actively LEVERAGED as a strength - under the Modi doctrine ! And anybody following Modi over the years would have anticipated this from Day 1..

BK might perhaps be younger in years - but seems completely over the hill when it comes to harboring outdated notions of how the world functions. Kind a similar to that other duffer running CPR - Pratap Bhanu Mehta.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Jun 2016 21:46

Lilo wrote: Its a babu written speech, not extempore.These international speeches are never extempore each word and nuance is carefully weighed and only then included.

Modi just understood and remembered and delivered it like a pro,despite the fact that public speaking in English is not really his natural strong point.
In this ability to do this i feel he has capacity similar to a satavadhani.

The key point is "understood". His remarkable ability to understand a subject or an issue comes handy when he connects different existing capabilities to find solutions. I think that skill comes in handy to quickly dive into the core problems and identify gaps - and then come out with the correct solution. Sometimes a complex problem requires smaller manageable solutions at the right time and place - then the system starts humming perfectly in sync with nature.

He is a great problem solver, and foremost he identifies the key problems to solve. Obviously every nation is besieged with countless problems and it is important to solve the pressing issues first.

I agree, babus would have ensure he just does not walk in and give a talk - even with his extraordinary abilities. His skill to convincingly portray every idea that his speech writers/babus gave him displays his remarkable brain power.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 10 Jun 2016 21:54

Those who click on Karnad's site will find he has designated himself as "India's foremost conservative strategist".

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Jun 2016 21:55

Sridhar K wrote:There are forwards floating around in FB asking people not to make fuss about him using teleprompter
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 1484264832

Thanks for sharing that. Glad to see there is some support for Modi.

Like I said long time before, some problems of Modi comes from his own supporters than anyone else. Some supporters are giving straws for his opponents to clutch. Quite unnecessary, but inevitable at the same time.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Jun 2016 22:32

Ryan was more enthusiastic than Biden; saw his clapping when Biden did not.

IMHO, Biden is EoL in politics. (His rival is going to head his party. His boss, who thought so highly of him - guess Obama wanted Biden to be next Prez, is supporting Hillary. And, a guy who said he will not run, but speak his mind has been unusually quite.)

He probably met with Modi multiple times too.

Ryan has a dog in this fight. And, I suspect, he sees an opportunity out there. Remember that it was the Chairs of the India Caucus that wrote a letter to Ryan to conduct this show and Ryan obliged. I have to assume Ryan saw something worth his entire while to spend that much time. BK notwithstanding.

BTW, how many pages were we able to count in the audience?

Kidding aside, I actually give more marks to Modi than anyone else. Modi, IMHO, has managed ruffled feathers (under statement of the decade?) and has extracted jucie out of stones. Even NSG, I think, Modi has cornered China - damned if they do, damned if they don't. I feel Modi will silently lead ASEAN. IF he can only roll-back China from IOR, that would be just great.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Jun 2016 22:42

For those keeping track, Clinton just hired Sanders' top "student manager" - the one that managed his face in front of the young crowd.

She happens to be a NRI: Kunoor Ojha. Young lady.

Kunoor Ojha is the Clinton campaign’s first major hire from the Sanders campaign, and her move to a role where she will work with the state teams to mobilize young voters represents a significant step in the former secretary of state’s outreach to the Vermont senator’s most ardent backers

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jun 2016 23:18

JE Menon wrote:Those who click on Karnad's site will find he has designated himself as "India's foremost conservative strategist".

He is. I suggested to him that he is a maximalist.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Jun 2016 00:09

Maybe he is Ramana... I find it odd though that he would put that as a self-declaration, bit like Modi putting on his personal site "Best PM of India" or something like that. A bit vain, at the least.

Yes, he is a maximalist. I think you are right. But he seems to have gotten personal at least over the past couple of years. I don't know the gentleman myself.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Jun 2016 02:17

30 million yoga (benders) clout is enough instead of intellectual property claims. How to gubo the guboers was fantastic spin on his speech.

I am sure, this will surge to 100 million by 2020 in many khaanized forms.

Modi's speech was dharmically good!

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 11 Jun 2016 02:37

NRao wrote:Kidding aside, I actually give more marks to Modi than anyone else. Modi, IMHO, has managed ruffled feathers (under statement of the decade?) and has extracted jucie out of stones. Even NSG, I think, Modi has cornered China - damned if they do, damned if they don't. I feel Modi will silently lead ASEAN. IF he can only roll-back China from IOR, that would be just great.

I was reading a commentary on Bhagvad Gita that talked about establishing Dharma; and then couple it with the famous "Broken windows theory" and am now able to simply state that to reduce "bad" the "good" has to be established, nurtured and protected. The "bad" will reduce - sometimes quietly sometimes kicking and screaming.

Since 1947, India has shown some passive aggression with its NAM, and not siding with USSR or USA; and striking its own charter. Even when it spoke up or stood up for its interests it was with some hesitancy - like a prized fighter shying to fight to his full skills. So the closing touch and killing spirit was missing. India was not ready to be a leader even when it was presented the opportunities. Now India is saying "yes, thanks I will take the leadership".

When India stands up and is not ashamed of it, others will recede. Arjuna has decided to fight, knowing it is his duty.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 11 Jun 2016 04:44

Modi's humor was beyond pale, his comments about partisanship etc were classic and hit home to Congress. His speech writer deserves a massive raise. These were some of the funniest comments I have ever heard. The rest of the speech was very nice too.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Jun 2016 04:51

SwamyG wrote:Since 1947, India has shown some passive aggression with its NAM, and not siding with USSR or USA; and striking its own charter. Even when it spoke up or stood up for its interests it was with some hesitancy - like a prized fighter shying to fight to his full skills. So the closing touch and killing spirit was missing. India was not ready to be a leader even when it was presented the opportunities. Now India is saying "yes, thanks I will take the leadership".

When India stands up and is not ashamed of it, others will recede.

+1

Arjuna has decided to fight, knowing it is his duty.

Well, technically, Arjuna was hard to convince even when he know God incarnate was doing the convincing.

'twas only when, in frustration, God revealed his vishwaroopam that Arjuna's wavering stopped. Seeing is believing after all, hearing (even if from Him) is a bunch of words only.

Which tells moi that it will take a push-2-shove moment when n-swords will be unsheathed in anger, nook bum tests will go off, world will stare into the abyss - kinda moment, i.e. the prospect of total war, before the Arjuna in GoI really, really wakes up. And then too, perhaps.