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All these changes for an initial order intent of just 13 units!!! ... still waiting for production green light.
Rohit, this was the 2nd such effort. First one ended because "imports were right around the corner".rohitvats wrote:In all this 'ownership' issue business, people forget that Dhanush came about because of push from the Director General Artillery. And not because someone in MOD or OFB woke up and realized that we've Bofors blue-prints ready with us.
I wonder how much of that clout is because of the trade unions.As for need for IA to take ownership and insist on private player participation if OFB production quality does not meet standards, well, things are not as simple for the IA. OFB and other PSU are a monopoly in themselves with clout which IA cannot even match. Nothing would suit IA better than dealing with private players who can deliver. But MOD makes them beholden to OFB for obvious reasons.
Interesting thing is Pinaka orders were held up because of limited ammo production at OFB. Though that appears to have been fixed because more orders have been placed for Pinaka.No one can forget GCF workers threatening to go on strike if private player is given orders for manufacture. They relented only when informed that mounted gun system is different order than the towed gun! IA has had a wonderful experience with Pinaka and private players. And would love to replicate that. FICV and private player participation happened on IA's insistence.
If OFB is reformed under Modi raj, that would be an achievement.It's the MOD which binds IA and Services to OFB.
Doesn't have to be a scorched earth policy,but there is a long list of imports like Rafale, Spike missile etc. could very well have been avoided.Karan M wrote: there is a flip side too. what will you do, if there is no corresponding capability that is indian?
there is no indian equivalent of IL-76, or C-17 or Mi-17 or S-70.
Above points are what defence ministry should normally be doing. Unfortunately there been been a lack of leadership (and competence?) here. Even with Parrikar IMO we are seeing incremental changes only. May be jingos need to be satisfied with this only....
now, the point i am making is the political leadership has to do more than just ask services to buy Indian. it has to
1. create the atmosphere and resource availability that allows indian products to thrive
2. ensure a fair play atmosphere where armed forces and weapons developers work together
3. ensure the products are available & if challenges are there, balance the issue (eg LUH and temporary import of some foreign unit; or ALTAS sonar while ATAS continues)
4. make sure there is healthy availability of both public and private solutions with GOI assisting for "indianization" such as making india specific software etc and not relying on quick fix imports
5. all 1-4 together as part of a group effort (IDS) to ensure there is synergy.
Karan M,Karan M wrote:its interesting to see complaints of "rabid folks" and what not, when one side takes care to present only facts.. and its assumed of course that the other side can get away with such assertions, merely because those who respond are constantly civil, can be taken for granted & abused .. then posh complaints of viciousness and what not.
heh. if name dropping was important one could even mention "who and what" who lead these sort of programs informed what exactly but for the sake of forum democrum & the fact its gauche.. it wasn't done. lets be clear here, some folks like deejay & akshay get respect because they don't demand it. lets be clear what that entails. i understand their occasional ire and heck, i'd be glad to have a beer with such level headed folks anytime. wish more folks were like them.
When you couldn’t respond with facts, you started making personal attacks on my credentials.Karan M wrote:Look who is talking about facts? As I recall you once claimed Arjun's sight doesn't have HK capability, were busy pontificating about Marut & aerodesign & LCA internals and weight compares with Gripen - mine and Maitya's rejoinders to all your previous statements are all available.tsarkar wrote:When you don't have facts, you start confusing. We supposedly designed the most complex parts of a submarine, viz, reactor and hull ourselves, but needed Russians to design some "myriad components" that is equally vague as "internals".
https://marutfans.wordpress.com/2010/02 ... apils-pen/…HF-24-1R at HAL, Bangalore. This aircraft had a GTRE designed Orpheus Engine Partial Reheat System (1R), which was under development at that time…
With regards to the Tejas, you in your fantasy incorrectly claimed it was fit to be inducted to TD-1 standard in 2001 itself when factually it was certified fit to fly only after IOC-2 in December 2013 http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=102056performance was less than it would have been if the rear fuselage had not simply been enlarged by HAL to house the larger engines and their nozzles. The nice area rule of the original design had been vitiated badly.
Before December 2013, Tejas had to mandatorily fly with telemetry support. Why?…In-flight re-light capability was demonstrated to ensure enhanced safety and reliability of the aircraft. This is a major achievement…Tejas has passed all the tests for “All Weather Clearance” of the aircraft. The Aircraft has been cleared for fly without any telemetry support.[/size]
Standards were not even finalized before December 2013.Walking around the Tejas assembly line, Sridharan explains that the sixteen Tejas prototypes HAL has built are each different from the other. As the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) incrementally refined and improved the fighter, each new prototype incorporated improvements and additions….“As a result of all these changes, a panel from one Tejas would not fit another. Now we will implement absolute standardisation, with identical components, assemblies and panels,” explains Sridharan.
And my reasons for ignoring your hyperbole and irrationality, Karan M, is not Gandhian non violence. Its Tughluma.tsarkar wrote:ignore the irrational ones
What personal attack?tsarkar wrote:While I normally ignore, I’ll make an exception in your case given your nonsense have gone too far, and Moderators have taken no action on you. You made the following personal attack on me in the INS Arihant thread when we were discussing the powerplant
"tsarkar"When you don't have facts, you start confusing. We supposedly designed the most complex parts of a submarine, viz, reactor and hull ourselves, but needed Russians to design some "myriad components" that is equally vague as "internals". Look who is talking about facts? As I recall you once claimed Arjun's sight doesn't have HK capability, were busy pontificating about Marut & aerodesign & LCA internals and weight compares with Gripen - mine and Maitya's rejoinders to all your previous statements are all available.
When you couldn’t respond with facts, you started making personal attacks on my credentials.
Looks like you are projecting, and projecting hard.You’ve three filthy traits of vindictiveness, viciousness & dishonesty whenever your posts are proven factually incorrect.
Merely a sample of how inscrutable your claims are, melawd. It just goes to show while you constantly brag about being so correct and everyone else on BR is wrong, you make bloopers too.Now, I have made 1000 plus posts on BR. All factual. Yet you dig up 3 out of context posts of the 1000+ posts
I spent a few minutes, because those were some of the big bloopers you made.trying to damage my credentials. Your vindictiveness is proven by your personal attack and habit of collecting mud on people who prove you wrong. I am sure you spent a lot of time gathering those three posts out of 1000s I have made.
Say what? I merely stated indigenous enhancements to Marut should have been pursued. So say many folks. Are you going to scream at them as well? I'll say the same for the LCA today as well.Even in these 3 posts, here are the facts
You in your emotional hyperbole incorrectly claimed indigenous design enhancements to Marut were available and cooked up a conspiracy of IAF being unfair to it. This is what the Pilots & Test Pilots had to say
https://marutfans.wordpress.com/2010/02 ... ie-chakko/
Size 10,0000 font would be better here. Since then perhaps we all would understand what you are going on about!…HF-24-1R at HAL, Bangalore. This aircraft had a GTRE designed Orpheus Engine Partial Reheat System (1R), which was under development at that time…ss.com/2010/02/21/from-groupie-kapils-pen/
performance was less than it would have been if the rear fuselage had not simply been enlarged by HAL to house the larger engines and their nozzles. The nice area rule of the original design had been vitiated badly.
Again, ROTFL only.... I made no such claim about Tejas being fit to be inducted as is. I merely pointed out at various times that current Tejas Mk1 once FOC'ed is better than obsolescent aircraft like MiG-21 and MiG-27 as they stand.With regards to the Tejas, you in your fantasy incorrectly claimed it was fit to be inducted to TD-1 standard in 2001 itself when factually it was certified fit to fly only after IOC-2 in December 2013 http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=102056
…In-flight re-light capability was demonstrated to ensure enhanced safety and reliability of the aircraft. This is a major achievement…Tejas has passed all the tests for “All Weather Clearance” of the aircraft. The Aircraft has been cleared for fly without any telemetry support.[/size]
Perhaps because it was under something known as a test program?efore December 2013, Tejas had to mandatorily fly with telemetry support. Why?
I see. Thanks for informing us. Here we were unable to discern all this.ecause all system parameters had to be monitored by dedicated ground team for flight safety. It was only in December 2013 that Tejas flight systems and characteristics were fully understood, proven & certified.
LOL, tilting at windmills again. Who said CEMILAC was IAF now?The certification agency CEMILAC is a DRDO arm, not IAF. And the delay in certification was the time taken to develop, not any speculative IAF Conspiracy Theory.
Looking at the above, you claiming dishonesty and verbosity is hilarious. I can't even take anything you say seriously given falooda you are making of the topic.You dishonestly deliberately overlook these facts and with verbose hubris claim it should have been inducted before its certified safe to fly.
Yeah so? Obviously when the aircraft is still in test to IAF specs for Mk1, it has not been finalized.Quoting the people building it in December 2013, http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2013/12/h ... hters.html
Walking around the Tejas assembly line, Sridharan explains that the sixteen Tejas prototypes HAL has built are each different from the other. As the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) incrementally refined and improved the fighter, each new prototype incorporated improvements and additions….“As a result of all these changes, a panel from one Tejas would not fit another. Now we will implement absolute standardisation, with identical components, assemblies and panels,” explains Sridharan.
Standards were not even finalized before December 2013.
Wow, didn't know I had a choir. Perchance you were singing and I missed it? Mellilfuous voice and all?You and your choir boys also claimed IAF weapons specifications delayed development. For the record, my post citing three weapons, R-73, FAB-500 and Derby, were specified as soon as they were selected and proven in Su-30 and Sea Harrier respectively.
LOL, and here it is I who have been quoting the Derby-EL/M-2032-LUSH connection & you are stating the obvious back at me. Welcome to the choir.Infact IAF saved the Tejas in 2005 by re-using the work done on LUSH program for Sea Harrier in Elta 2032 radar, datalink & Derby missiles when it was clear MMR was a dead end.
So all that verbosity above, to state A) you were wrongAnd with regards to the Arjun, I had got my information from someone who worked with the 15 PP (Pre Production) models, that did not have the HK feature then under development. And unlike the insecure you who tries to obfuscate in verbose emotional hyperbole, I correct myself openly wherever incorrect.
ROTFL! Projecting away.Your dishonesty is proven when despite your posts being proven incorrect, you pretend as if you were right. Most people are lazy to go back and check, but for the record, all posts are there.
Whenever somebody disagrees with you, you start screaming. That my dear sir, is a personal attack. Not when somebody says.. "err no..."When cornered, you claim shelter under the guise of civility, when you initiate personal attacks.
Oh please.You’re also vicious in your personal attacks on Prodyut Das or A M Matheswaran, when all they did was cite their point of views. You could just refute their PoV and rest at that. Instead you indulge in character assassination.
For all the ignoring you seem to be screaming a lot. And the amount of hyperbole and over the top irrationality in the post speaks for itself.And my reasons for ignoring your hyperbole and irrationality, Karan M, is not Gandhian non violence. Its Tughluma.
we all can't share your pacific island retreat which is so fashionable and chi-chi.You see, life is much larger than internet forums. You and your choir boys may drown reason on your coral island.
More amazing stuff from your side, much like Arjun H&K sight & telling ADA how to design aircraft & making claims on Gripen weight and what not.But in real life, when you meet people who really know things, when you go with your incorrect pet theory of “Tejas fit for induction in 2001” or “Shakti & Takshak torpedoes just around the corner”, then that day you’ll dig a bigger hole for yourself and make a bigger fool of yourself.
I'll diagnose you too. You suffer from an inability to stick to the facts and then resort to all sorts of bizarre claims to win an internet argument.I’ll diagnose you a little more. You suffer from Indigenous Brochuritis.
Nope didn't do that. All I have ever done isThat came out when you claimed “Shakti & Takshak torpedoes just around the corner”
Just corrected the above.I have defined Indigenous Brochuritis for inclusion in the BRF Dictionary
Yes indeed. Which is why I immediately knew, despite the BEL website you were throwing in everyone's face, that the Arjun GMS was not the one there. While of course, your inside information on PPS tanks was so correct.And all your knowledge and information is just that – news reports, DRDO publications, Aero India Displays. Beyond that you post in the realm of speculation & fantasy.
I am so awed by the operational knowledge you have shared in the post above. BTW, naval veterans have a lot of favorites. I won;t even bother reading about "berating" yada yada, because given how you have constantly and deliberately misrepresented everything I've said, its proabably yet another one..You have zero knowledge of operational matters[/b] or organizational ethos, otherwise you wouldn’t have berated Admiral Ronnie Pereira in your post in the Arihant thread. He was the best chief IN had, like Manekshaw or Sundarji. But with your knowledge limited to brochures, you won’t know that.
Oh thanks for informing all of us, in such a humble manner.And as for me, I have a life much larger than your verbose brochuritis infected life.
Have you seen the BR galleries? Many interesting pics there too.And as a very small sample example, here is the photo I took & posted in BR of the Revati when it was being tested on INS Dunagiri
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/294 ... 3D+CAR.JPG
At this point I can't but shake my head... for crying out loud...do you even realize the amount of stuff that has been picked up from BR discussions by various folks and reposted elsewhere.. and nobody else claims its such a big issue.Even L&T uses my photo, without my permission http://www.larsentoubro.com/heavy-engin ... rne-radar/
Good for them. Never said anything about SukumarB either.My association with Srikumar Banerjee remains no matter what you post. And my children get to tour nuclear submarines.
I think that's your attitude with your umpteen attacks on everyone else from being brochure bashers, being this, being that..No one has ever seen anything original from you, only verbose speculation and brochure/published reports/new reports information come from you.
Right. You are the epitome of brevity and civility.When you run out of facts, your posts become more & more verbose gibberish
I am neither whimpering and complaining. I am laughing at your behavior outright.I’m sure you’ll whimper and complain when given a taste of your own medicine, but you should’ve thought about it before making a personal attack on me in the Arihant thread.
[/quote]Moderators – since you ignored Karan’s repeated personal attacks on me in the Arihant thread or earlier in this thread, I would request you to let this response to his repeated personal attacks stay.
Not that i am intelligent, but i skim over posts of some members and read twice the posts of most [ like i said i am not intelligent] .Avarachan wrote:Guys, be above insults. Responding to each and every allegation makes you look petty. Don't worry about your personal honor: BRF members are intelligent. If someone is being a jerk, most people will realize that even without someone else explicitly pointing that out.
Good. The old Russian FAT that came with M-46 will be replaced with these.Singha wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/auto/story ... 29650.html
ashok leyland wins 800cr super stallion truck order (450 units of 6x6) for artillery gun towers
The FATs have a cabin for the gun crew. Scania, AL and Tata models share this.BharadwajV wrote:Did we not order over a thousand Tata 6by6's?
They had the Crane as standard, IIRC.
Why get the Super Stallion?
By Anupama Airy
The most worrying operational void of field artillery guns to support the Indian Army in battle is finally being addressed. Domestic companies like Kalyani Group companies are all geared up to fill this gap and showcase a plethora of high-precision, cost competitive and most importantly indigenously developed artillery guns at the forthcoming event—the Def-Expo 2016 to be held in Goa from March 28th to 30th.
The Kalyani Group Is All Set To Showcase Four Artillery Gun Platforms at the DefExpo India 2016 : Bharat 52 – 155mm/52 Cal Towed Gun; Bharat 45 – 155mm/45 Cal Towed Gun; Garuda 105 – 105mm/37 Cal Truck Mounted Light Weight Gun and Bharat Ultra Light Howitzer – 155mm/39 Cal Ultra Light Gun made of Ti & Al. based alloys.
A week before the DefExpo India 2016, the ever passionate, Baba N Kalyani, Chairman, Kalyani Group Companies, in an exclusive and free-wheeling interview to DefenceAviationPost.com, spoke about his group’s strategy, plans and offerings for India’s defence sector. What is more significant is that Kalyani said he will showcase a host of indigenously developed light weight artillery guns and howitzers that offer price advantage of as much as 40-50% over similar offerings by global firms.
Excerpts:
Q: How and when did the idea to make Guns, an altogether different segment from your core business, come to your mind?
A: The idea to make indigenous guns stuck me in late 2011. Within months and by February 2012, I discussed the idea with a group of just three young and dynamic engineers (who I decided to pull out of their traditional roles) to make high-tech indigenous guns. Interestingly, none of these three engineers had ever seen a gun in their life before and I sat down with them and drew some sketches of guns.
And four years down the line, we currently have a group of 45 dedicated and highly skilled engineers who are involved in making high precision indigenous artillery guns. In 2015, during the “Make in India” week in Mumbai, Kalyani Group proudly displayed Bharat-52, a long range artillery gun that was developed indigenously by us.
In between 2011 and this four and a half year period, a lot research and networking happened with various institutions, universities, organisations and people in order to gain knowledge and technical expertise in gun technology across a range of applications from small arms through to large calibre artillery systems.
We took help of a leading University in UK which has a School Of Artillery that teaches how to design Artillery guns and combines world recognised expertise in gun technology across a range of applications from small arms through to large calibre artillery systems.
Like that we grew and understood what was required, the design bit, what software to use and we started putting building blocks together. The engineering expertise of our group became our advantage…..as we have a whole set of experts in metallurgy, materials, stress & fatigue analysis, designing products, computer based simulation, etc. We also have considerable expertise in Hydraulics, Automation & Controls and Robotics. And this is exactly what an Artillery Gun is really all about—its Metal, Hydraulics, Automated Systems and some Electronics, all integrated together…we use these building blocks and designed a gun. Initially it was very difficult. I remember 2012, we were really frustrated as we used to do a lot of experiments, which at times didn’t work and produce the right results.
Just being at it, we overcame all these hurdles and by 2014, we had the first gun ready within 24months. We had not fired the gun…the gun was ready, we had moved it, did all the mobility trials but we had not fired it. Firing took place quite late, this year in the last two months…after which we knew our technology was right and on spot. So our first gun that made by us, right from the steel to the forging, to machining, to heat treatment to finish machining. All this needs lot of precision and metallurgy and I can proudly say that on these two fronts, we are among the world’s best.
Q: During the recent ‘Make in India’ week in Mumbai, you displayed your long range artillery gun, Bharat-52. So what are you showcasing at the DefExpo 2016?
A: We are showcasing Four Gun platforms at the DefExpo 2016 in Goa.
This includes the first gun Bharat-52 that we have built and had also showcased at the Make in India week in Mumbai.
Then we have built a 45 calibre gun that we will be showcasing (and the reason for this is that the Army is already buying Dhanush which is also a 45 calibre). We call it the Bharat-45.
Then we have designed, developed and manufactured a 105mm/37 calibre light weight gun, GARUDA-105 which comes with a Hybrid Recoil System and weighs less than a ton. This gun is designed to be mounted on a pick-up truck and transported by a Helicopter.
Fourth, which is our latest baby, is the Bharat Ultra-Light Howitzer we are exhibiting thefirst prototype system that has been developed leveraging our experience in manufacturing Aerospace components comprising light weight exotic materials like Titanium and Aluminium based alloys. We will have a system ready for testing before the end of this year.
We have thus developed four platforms in less than three and a half years.
Q: What about the cost advantage that this indigenisation of products and equipments will bring for the country’s defence sector?
A: India offers a tremendous cost advantage. I have said it publically that given the opportunity, we can manufacture and supply the Ultra-Light Howitzers (ULHs) at significantly lower than international prices.. . I am confident that this cost effectiveness and technology will help India emerge as a large manufacturer of Defence Equipments. We may not be able to make fighter planes or sophisticated electronics, but when it comes to Small Arms and Artillery, we should soon be the best in the world.
(Mr Kalyani will be happy to know when this price advantage was shared during an Exclusive Interview with the RM, Mr Parrikar assured that he will speak to KALYANI GROUP to understand the product and technology and assured that all indigenous manufacturers who offer such price advantage and have competitive products to offer will be spoken to by him.)
Q: What about your production capabilities?
A: We have a dedicated production line for Artillery Systems today and we can quickly equip ourselves to build almost 100 guns a year, if the government wants. And 100% of the gun is indigenous and is being built in our plant. The only thing that we don’t make is the fire control systems, which is the electronics (the charge, the explosive, the propellers…we don’t do that). Once the entry of private sector is allowed in these currently barred sectors, we will happily set up plants to do that too.
Q: What are your company’s plans on the exports front and the road ahead?
A: If you look at the next 15 years, we should see our defence expenditure (spread over Army, Navy and Airforce) going to anywhere around $25 billion a year from the present around $8 billion a year.
So if India can excel in terms of product, in terms of quality, the performance and give the required cost advantage, there is no stopping for us. India can excel in sectors where it has a manufacturing advantage (guns, artillery, ammunition or anything metal oriented components), we will always have an advantage. Take the instance of auto components where we have an inherent advantage of 20-30% on cost side. Once we gain that advantage, there will also be a tremendous opportunity for exports.
Talking of my company’s aim, I can say that in 10 years, we will be among the top three artillery manufacturers on this planet. We are creating facilities that are better than the best in the world. Not just this, we are creating the knowledge that is required for this. The only missing link is that we don’t have any facilities to test our products as that is all with our government. It takes more than a year at times to test a product. And I hope that Hon’ble Raksha Mantri, Shri Parrikar, would have solved this in the new DPP.
Q: While you are ready with these next-gen guns, the industry doesn’t have any control on the ammunition side. Does this affect your plans and sales?
A : We have been making empty ammunition for years and we have a whole line in our plant for this. But private sector is not allowed to fill explosives nor is the government beginning to open it up to the private sector. I have said this before that during the Kargil war, Army was running out of shells for the Bofors guns. So the Ministry of Defence came to me and said, start manufacturing from tomorrow. So I made special arrangements and made 100,000 shells and gave it to the government.
Q: With the fine print on the new DPP Policy around the corner, what are those few things that you are looking at in the policy for the defence industry?
A: I want the policy to have preference for indigenously developed products (which the initial reports suggest the policy has a special focus on), preference for high level of indigenous content. Because when I can make a product with 100% indigenous content, I don’t want to compete with a guy who is making products with say a 40% indigenous content just like in some cars, where they are putting the battery, tyres and lights in India while the rest of it comes from Europe or elsewhere. Because if this is how we decide that a product is indigenous, then you are not securing the technology – the ‘Know-How’ and ‘Know-Why” of things; India will remain behind!
Secondly, I want the decision making process to be far shorter than the present processes and procedures.
Third, I expect more transparency in the system and the most important to all is allowing private sector to have the ability to test their new innovative ideas. Because we don’t have firing ranges, we don’t have ammunitions—that is only with the government. So we need access to these if India wants innovation in research and development (R&D) and want private sector to make new products. But if we don’t get a chance to test our product, how will we innovate. Even when we built the 105 light weight gun, it kept lying with us for one year and we could’nt test it as we did not get permissions to test. We then had to send a second system to USA which was integrated with Ordnance from USA, mounted on a local pick-up truck and then fired & tested. The test results are extremely encouraging.
(We at DefenceAviationPost.com are happy to inform Mr Kalyani (and even before the fine print of the DPP is made public by the MoD), that in an Exclusive interview of the Defence Minister, Manohar Parrikar with DefenceAviationPost.com, two days after we interviewed Mr Kalyani, the minister made it clear that the new DPP policy has addressed this constraint and the industry will be able to test its products and equipments within India by accessing these facilities through a procedure that will be spelt out in the policy).
The new DPP will be extremely valuable if it brings in these changes
Q: What is the requirement of Guns by the Army and also elaborate on the preference that you are seeking for indigenous products?
A: As per the information available in various reports and on official websites, our assessment is that the Army requires some 4000 guns in the next 15 years or so. Now if I have developed a product, test it and if it is as good as what you have or better, then buy it if I am competitive. Don’t buy it if I am not good or if I am not competitive but, all I am asking is that give me the first chance. This is what I mean when I talk of preference for Indian Designed Developed and Manufactured Product.
Q: How do you react to the sudden inflow of investment proposals in Defence from the private sector?
A: I think we are going the right way. It’s commendable on part of the government to have passed on the message that this sector is open for business. The rush that you mentioned from the private sector only shows that the government has been very successful in passing this message both in India and outside the country and that is why you see large number of MoUs happening and a large number of industrial licenses being given to the industry.
I think DIPP and MoD have been very good in clearing the procedural bottlenecks, especially when it comes to length of license validation going upto 15 years. Earlier, it was just one year and every year you had to go for renewal which itself used to take one year. And one was not sure if the renewal will come or not. But now I don’t have to worry about that and my work would continue undeterred.
The government is very proactive, the Defence Minister, Mr Manohar Parrikar has been quite realistic and overall I am quite happy with the steps that the government is taking in the sector. I am very confident that the new DPP, which the entire industry is waiting to see, will only go to prove that the government is seriously pushing the Make in India initiative that will push manufacturing activity in the country and contribute to the overall growth of India’s economy.
The LOA was sent in Feb. of 2016 and was valid for 180 days. Once that is agreed upon and signed by both parties :That reminds me, I have been unable to find any reports on when can we expect to see the first M777s to be inducted in the Indian Army. The contract was approved in December last year.
10 cents a pair,dnivas wrote:I did feel bad for the soldiers who had to use their hands to deafen the sound. Again it is not a case of scooter helmet questioning mentality; but noise reducing headsets should not be that expensive, For a few rounds and the whole team can be outfitted?Yes/No?
btw Great video. Total TFTA
Hi Karan, it wasn't fear of bias. Instead they were exerting control on the armed forces and ofcourse sloth. DG Arty had instructed Comdt (Commandant) Arty School Deolali to allow tests of Bharat 52. Preparations were being made but some Babu came to know and reprimanded the army. It lead to a big stand off but babu prevailed. They were angry that fauj had the temerity to think for themselves and try to move out of their stranglehold or vice like grip in the words of a army commander. Also babus get a lot of goodies from OFB in terms of posts , vehicles , holiday homes etc. So patronage is a big thing.Karan M wrote:Akshay Kapoor pointed out that MOD babus were afraid of being seen as biased towards Bharat Forge so went out of their way to stepdance around such projects. With Parrikar at the helm, hopefully such stuff will stop.
This is beyond stupid and completely intolerable.Akshay Kapoor wrote:Hi Karan, it wasn't fear of bias. Instead they were exerting control on the armed forces and ofcourse sloth. DG Arty had instructed Comdt (Commandant) Arty School Deolali to allow tests of Bharat 52. Preparations were being made but some Babu came to know and reprimanded the army. It lead to a big stand off but babu prevailed. They were angry that fauj had the temerity to think for themselves and try to move out of their stranglehold or vice like grip in the words of a army commander. Also babus get a lot of goodies from OFB in terms of posts , vehicles , holiday homes etc. So patronage is a big thing.Karan M wrote:Akshay Kapoor pointed out that MOD babus were afraid of being seen as biased towards Bharat Forge so went out of their way to stepdance around such projects. With Parrikar at the helm, hopefully such stuff will stop.
Can you link this please? ThanksAkshay Kapoor wrote:Please read Parrikars recent interview. I quote from memory - 'Mod people have no knowledge of defence and every Tom Dick and Harry Asks some irrelevant question. By the time the question is answered to his satisfaction the person is transferred' Parrikar is very frustrated with the MOD babudom but can do little. The bureaucracy is more powerful than Modis and Parrikars.
Bureaucratic procedures delay defence deals, defence minister Manohar Parrikar has said
Parrikar said these deals are not like buying phones from a shop
Sometimes, those who do not understand about the products have to deal with the procurement, he said
HYDERABAD: Defence deals, unlike purchase of televisions or mobile phones, are not made overnight and take "a lot of time" owing to bureaucratic procedures, defence minister Manohar Parrikar said on Saturday.
Speaking at a function here, Parrikar noted that sometimes, in the bureaucracy, those who do not understand anything about the product, deal with their procurement.
"Things do take time in defence (deals). Even if I make an order, it does not happen overnight because it requires time to mature. Army items are not procured off the shelf like you buy a TV or a mobile, like you walk into a shop and come out with the product," he said.
"To place a defence order, it takes a hell lot of time. With every Tom, Dick and Harry sitting in the department ... those who do not understand anything about actual product asking some vague questions, sometimes funny questions, also sometimes relevant questions. After he satisfies himself he gets transferred and somebody else comes in and raises different kind of queries again ... it takes lot of time," Parrikar said.
The defence minister was speaking at the foundation-laying ceremony of a new facility here for Tata Boeing Aerospace Limited (TBAL), a joint venture between Boeing and Tata Advanced Systems.
Parrikar said the government's emphasis was on skill development programmes for aviation sector, and it was working with Boeing towards that.
The minister, who in the morning visited T-Hub, a technological incubator started by the Telangana government, interacted with the budding entrepreneurs there.