IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Khalsa » 21 Jun 2016 04:31

Last days of the month of June and the rafael deal remains a distant mirage.
Axe the damn thing and embark upon AMCA route with determination than before....

By the time we nail this deal, Rafael might not be relevant.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Cosmo_R » 21 Jun 2016 04:34

Khalsa wrote:Last days of the month of June and the rafael deal remains a distant mirage.


Indeed a 2K that has morphed from substance to a news item :)

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Austin » 21 Jun 2016 13:17

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... r-2859066/
“When we have waited for 15-16 years… I think we are now on path of coming to conclusion,” Parrikar told reporters in the Bengaluru after witnessing the inaugural flight session of indigenously built aircraft Hindustan Turbo Trainer 40 (HTT 40).

Parrikar said the two sides were yet to arrive at a decision on pricing.

“It’s a big purchase we have to be careful and every 0.1 percent savings itself is a hundreds of crores. So let the exercise be done with some patience,” he said.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Will » 23 Jun 2016 19:27

By the time a decision is taken the Rafale will be as obsolete as the hunter :mrgreen:

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Hitesh » 23 Jun 2016 19:38

:D I think Parrikar is just playing the waiting game to see who throws in the towel first. I think he is trying to save India from paying the penalty fees and making Dassault throwing in the towel first so India could say "See, you fail to negotiate in good faith and threw in the towel. Therefore, we are not beholden to you for any penalties. Now fvck off"

:mrgreen: :rotfl:

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Austin » 23 Jun 2016 19:47

Indian deal for 36 Rafales moves forward

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... rd-426617/
23 June, 2016

New Delhi is in the final stages of a process that could lead to a contract for 36 Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft.

Negotiations between Indian and French teams regarding the final terms of the contract are now concluded, said defence minister Manohar Parrikar during a recent visit to Bengaluru.

“I should receive their report this week and the ministry will analyse it and then send it to the Government,” he said. “After the report is submitted, it may take the government four to five weeks to officially come to a conclusion as to the final terms of the contract.”

Parrikar made the remarks during a recent visit to Bangalore. He indicated that the contract would be valued at approximately $7-8 billion.

New Delhi will also look to acquire a single-engined and a twin-engined fighter type under the Government’s ‘Make-in-India’ initiative for manufacture in India.

“We also envisage acquiring single-engined and twin-engined fighter aircraft under the ‘Make in India’ programme,” he says. “Final discussions are likely to be concluded in a couple of months to decide the exact course of action, though more or less the line is decided.”

Extensive negotiations have reportedly been underway between the Ministry of Defence and the air force to decide on the final requirements and iron out the financial aspects of such a proposal.

The plans for production of a twin-engined fighter in India could tie-in with recent remarks by Dassault Aviation chief executive Eric Trappier: “At the moment we are negotiating the price for the first 36……we are already preparing the second phase of the contract, that is an additional order of some 90 aircraft but that is in the long term.”

Saab has been running a highly visible campaign in India to promote the Gripen E to be built in India. Lockheed Martin has offered its F-16V and Boeing has proposed the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet for manufacture in India

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Hitesh » 23 Jun 2016 20:14

Austin wrote:“I should receive their report this week and the ministry will analyse it and then send it to the Government,” he said. “After the report is submitted, it may take the government four to five weeks to officially come to a conclusion as to the final terms of the contract.”


Basically meaning that the MOD will find something else wrong with the contract and restart the negotiations all over. Lol! :rotfl:


The plans for production of a twin-engined fighter in India could tie-in with recent remarks by Dassault Aviation chief executive Eric Trappier: “At the moment we are negotiating the price for the first 36…… we are already preparing the second phase of the contract, that is an additional order of some 90 aircraft but that is in the long term.”


Basically it means that the MoD has decided that the Rafale is not the long term solution to the needs of IAF. I am sincerely hoping that the AMCA program is done with their design and will roll out a prototype by next year. Because if that happens, India would be saving $7-8 billion dollars. MoD will quickly realize that 36 planes of one type doesn't do sh!t when you take in account of downtime, maintenance, and spares.

If India does go ahead with the Rafale buy, it will go down as one of the worst defense procurement decisions ever made by MoD because India's balls would be caught in the vise grip like hold of Dassault. Dassault would immediately know that the MoD/IAF has committed to Rafale and has no choice but to go for more numbers to justify the initial purchase in the first place.

I would be for it if the initial order was for 126 planes. But after that cut to 36 planes, I am now against it. Just use the money for AMCA program and get it to work and it will pay off in the long run.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Cain Marko » 23 Jun 2016 22:58

“We also envisage acquiring single-engined and twin-engined fighter aircraft under the ‘Make in India’ programme,” he says. “Final discussions are likely to be concluded in a couple of months to decide the exact course of action, though more or less the line is decided.”

Now MP is speaking of a line for twin AND single engined fighters. This is turning into one crazy masala dish...have a feeling that once much desired NSG entry is cleared, purse strings will loosen up. US, FRA, SWE may all benefit at this rate

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Khalsa » 23 Jun 2016 23:50

here here Hitesh.
Yes more power ($) to the AMCA.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby kapilrdave » 27 Jun 2016 17:53

IMHO here is what seems to be happening....

MP is trying to fix the price of 36 Rafales at good rate. These 36 will come off the shelf.

He then wants the rest 90 to be manufactured in India with the same (or may be similar) price tag. MP wants Dessault to absorb the cost of setting up the manufacturing line under MII program.

Dessault is ready to set up a manufacturing line but with someone who has zero knowledge of the domain so that they can preserve their IP. On top of that, they are trying to be smart by setting up an assembly just for the sake of it, but intend to import everything from FR.

MP is trying to make sure the planes are actually built locally (ie. major %age of it is sourced from internally) and setting up the conditions accordingly.

Frenchies are becoming tough to negotiate so MP invites other candidates under MII program and practically threatening Dessault of quitting. However, massa has not played kacchi golis to be a rubber to be used and throw by MoD. So they want assurance that weather or not India buys Rafale, we will have to buy teens if they come here under MII program. This explains MP's statement indicating "one or two double engined aircrafts and one single engined aircraft (F16)".

Gripen is just being an attention wh*re kejriwal by issuing statements and chest thumping. No one in MoD is entertaining them is their grief. However, they are still being useful for us by doing this antics which adds additional pressure on Dessault. So just to keep the carrot dangling for them, MP sends Fadnavis to fly Gripen.

Possible outcomes:

1. Dessault agrees to our terms and truly manufactures Rafale here with same price tag and we say no to teens.

2. Dessault quits the deal and we buy teens under MII assurance.

3. We buy both Rafale and teens under MII assurance.

Which one is better I don't know. But I don't think we will dump both the deals and go for only indigenous platforms. This regime is hell bent on making MII a success and defense (that too in hi-tech area) will give it as big a boost as it gets. They might go even to Gripen if nothing else works out to make sure at least someone opens his factory in India through this deal.

We may or may not get the best plane out of this, we might not even get to learn cutting edge techs as well. But what this will give us is JOBS. I guess that is what they are targeting as the least outcome. Anything more to that will be a bonus.

My do kaudi.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Khalsa » 28 Jun 2016 04:44

Nice Take Kapil but no.

I don't and hope to god we are not going for that 126 Aircraft number again.
36 is good enough for me.
F-16s will never be manufactured ever in India
Spoken to many IAF professionals who have said why would you arm yourself with the same weapon as the opposition.
F-18 is heavy.
Eurofighter has been said goodbye too.... I think the programme has too many issues hidden and on the surface much like the Mig-35.
Which leaves us with the Gripen which has some overlap with the tejas and does not effectively do what Rafael does.

So Rafael is an EFFECTIVE aircraft in its class and role.
Which means we want it, the French know we want it, we know that they know we want it.
So nothing is going to change.

We will buy the 7-8 Billion package deal with some offsets and crown it into a victorious moment.
Congress I will go on the offensive and say Modi bought 36 for 7 Billion and we were getting 125 for 8 Billion.

But we will have protected the Tejas from encroachment of these phoren manufacturers who want to snuff out the intellect in INdia.
We will also create a gap in the medium class by only purchasing 36 so when the Jags start retiring, AMCA starts appearing in same form or shape.

Su-30 and FGFA will field in the heavy class category.

We are getting the rafaels ..... what MP and the current Government is trying to avoid the Media frenzy that COngress I will lead once the deal is signed.
refer above: 7 billion vs 8 billion for 36 vs 126 respectively.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby member_29341 » 28 Jun 2016 06:15

I agree with you guys that the Rafale is the perfect fit for India except for the price. I do not agree that there was ever a case to be made that we could get 126 at $8Bn. Even when this deal was being negotiated, it was known as the mother of all deals and the price was much higher.

Rafale should be bought under MII and transfer of technology should allow us to ramp up on the AMCA quickly. However knowing the French, they will demand a price for this, and that will be pretty substantial. Choice here is to get all of that or go in for an aircraft like the F18 which will clearly not be in the same league.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Cybaru » 28 Jun 2016 09:09

The only thing in the teens that makes sense is the FA-18 growler version. If they can snag 126 of those IAF will cover both mud moving and SEAD/DEAD roles very well. it will probably cost half of what rafale will cost and be far more effective. The weaponry would be cheaper as well and it has legs, power and perhaps even a common engine type with LCA Mk-2.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Hitesh » 28 Jun 2016 10:44

I do not agree with a purchase of 36 planes of any kind. It becomes useless in a very short manner because spares would quickly run out and we cannot sustain operations of 36 planes for long. If you want sustainability and staying power of a plane, you need more numbers whether it be LCAs, MKIs, Mig-21 bis, or Rafales.

I would only support the purchase of Rafales if we can get them at 126 planes, not 36. Since we cannot afford 126 of these, it makes absolutely no sense to go for these planes at all at any number. Just plow the money into LCAs and AMCAs and buy more MKIs. We will be fine. IAF will find a way to win with those planes.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Philip » 28 Jun 2016 15:43

Hitesh,we've been soldiering with just 40+ M2Ks for a few decades and just 60+ MIG-29s as well. One supposes that the upgraded M2Ks and Rafales will share some commonality in weaponry,systems,etc. as well as ops.I do agree though that just 36,2 sqds makes little sense unless the aircraft are supposed to be N-capable and frankly to deal with China,one requires genuine strat bombers for the role.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Hitesh » 28 Jun 2016 19:16

Philip, IAF was expecting to get more M2K and Mig 29s but the break up of USSR and the currency exchange problems of 1990 changed all of that. IAF had been screaming for more planes and more planes. They were only mollified when MoD got MKIs and agreed to boost MKIs to 270 planes. Now with Mig-21s and 27s reaching the end of their useful lifes, they are screaming for more planes to replace them. Hence all of this talk.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Will » 28 Jun 2016 19:35

Uncle Sam will want his pound of flesh for pushing Indian membership of the MCTR and the NSG. I thought MP said one two engined and one single engined aircraft was being considered. If its two 2 engined ones that are being considered then you can bet on more Rafales and the F-18 plus the Gripen. No way the F-16 is going to get in. But then stranger things happen in the world of Indian defence.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby vishvak » 28 Jun 2016 21:44

F/A-18 didn't clear MMRCA competition, and how much of prudence is in buying US fighter jet for defending Himalayan borders? Paging Ulan Batoriji may help in answering this question. Rafale + AMCA can offer a alternate way without compromising on intrusive inspection + alphabet soup treaties + political head winds against interference in each and every matter.

By the way, how much monies will be spent in any alternative considerations? Any rough number would do.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby ranjan.rao » 15 Aug 2016 01:41

My first post..after re-registering..thanks to mods for approving the request within an hour...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rafale-deal-Negotiating-team-submits-final-report/articleshow/53671494.cms


I guess nothing major in this report except that this report will be reviewed by DAC on 18th Aug, who knows it might be resent for further review and further changes :rotfl: :wink:

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby shiv » 15 Aug 2016 08:23

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/mig-27-c ... fe-1418384
The defence ministry's top acquisition council is likely to take up this month the final report submitted by a team negotiating the much-anticipated Rafale fighter jet deal with France.

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), chaired by defence minister Manohar Parrikar, is likely to meet on August 18.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby abhik » 15 Aug 2016 14:58

So no Rafale deal yet? Glad nothing has changed in the last 2 months.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Kartik » 16 Aug 2016 03:05

Top Indian acquisition panel to review Rafale deal on August 18

NEW DELHI --- The Defence Ministry’s top acquisition council is likely to take up this month the final report submitted by a team negotiating the much-anticipated Rafale fighter jet deal with France.

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), chaired by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, is likely to meet on August 18.

The Council had last month reviewed the multi-billion Euro Rafale deal and directed the Indian negotiating team to submit its report “expeditiously”.

“The negotiating team has submitted its report which is under examination,” the Minister said in a written reply to the Lok Sabha on Friday.

During his visit to France in April last year, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had announced that India would purchase 36 Rafale jets in a government-to-government contract.

Soon after the announcement, the Defence Ministry scrapped a separate process that was on to purchase 126 Rafale fighter planes, built by French defence giant Dassault Aviation.

The new deal comes with the clause of delivering 50 per cent offsets, creating business worth at least 3 billion Euros for smaller Indian companies and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets.

The commercial negotiations on the pricing of the planes, equipment and other issues began in mid-January this year.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby arunsrinivasan » 16 Aug 2016 15:46

Gripen, F-16, compete in MMRCA re-run
Click on the link for graphics & table comparing F-16 & Gripen.

Since April 2011, when the Indian Air Force (IAF) shortlisted the Eurofighter and Rafale for purchase, Swedish company Saab has believed its JAS-39 Gripen fighter was unfairly eliminated from that globally watched tender for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA). Similarly, US aerospace giant, Lockheed Martin, which had offered an F-16 Block 50/52 variant called the Super Viper, feels hard done by. Yet, one of these companies might still have the last laugh after the eventual MMRCA winner, Dassault of France, failed to conclude a contract for the Rafale.

The Gripen NG and the F-16 Block 70 --- improved variants of the fighters Saab and Lockheed Martin had earlier offered --- are frontrunners in a truncated replay of the MMRCA contest. Boeing, meanwhile, has repeated its offer of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. All three offers are couched in the rubric of “Make in India”.

Of the original six vendors in the MMRCA race, only Russia’s RAC MiG has faded away. Dassault continues negotiating with New Delhi, albeit only for 36 Rafales under a government-to-government sale. Eurofighter remains poised on the sidelines; offering to step in should negotiations with Dassault collapse.

A call to battle

In April 2015, when Prime Minister Narendra Modi ended three years of tortuous negotiations with Dassault, compensating the French vendor with an order for 36 fighters, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar realised a light fighter would still be needed to replace the IAF’s retiring MiGs and bolster plummeting fighter numbers.

On April 13, 2015, Parrikar stated on Doordarshan TV: “Rafale is not a replacement for MiG-21. LCA [Light Combat Aircraft] Tejas is a replacement for MiG-21. Or, if we build some other fighter under “Make in India”… another single engine [fighter] in India, which is possible, that could be a replacement for the MiG-21.”

For Saab and Lockheed Martin, which both had single-engine, light fighters to offer, this was a call to battle. And the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which runs the LCA programme, realised the Tejas had to come good quickly.

The IAF and ADA wasted no time in accelerating Tejas’ induction. Since the Tejas Mark II requires the time-consuming integration of a new engine, it was agreed to induct a stopgap Tejas Mark IA. This would have four improvements over the Mark I: active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar to boost air combat capability; an externally-carried self-protection jammer (SPJ) to blind enemy radar; mid-air refuelling to extend its range, and tidied-up internals for easier maintenance. The IAF undertook to order at least 80 Tejas Mark IA fighters.

Saab makes its play

Meanwhile, Saab prepared a three-point plan that piggybacks on the Tejas. This has not been formally proposed, but its strategy is evident from the informal offers made.

First, Saab has offered to manufacture and assemble the Gripen NG in India, partnering an Indian firm. Ministry insiders say Saab hopes to roll out the first fighter in 36 months; ramping up quickly to 18 fighters per year. The Gripen NG’s cost will depend upon how much indigenisation India demands. Building more components and sub-systems indigenously would naturally raise the cost.

Second, Saab has offered to partner ADA in developing the Tejas Mark IA, focusing on the four improvements needed. The Gripen NG’s vaunted Selex Galileo Raven ES-05 AESA radar would be manufactured in India for the Tejas Mark IA and the Gripen NG. With a 100-degree sweep, this scans a wider cone than any other current radar.

Third, Saab would help ADA develop its planned fifth-generation (Gen-5) fighter, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). In this, Saab’s capability is untested, since Europe has no Gen-5 fighter programme. Instead, Saab is part of a European consortium working on an unmanned stealth aircraft, called the nEUROn.

Significantly, Saab is silent on the Tejas Mark II --- which would directly compete with the Gripen NG. Saab’s vision clearly involves bypassing the Tejas Mark II --- and moving from the Mark IA, to the Gripen NG, to the AMCA.

Jan Widerstrom, Saab India chief, says on the Saab website: “The offer includes setting up of a full manufacturing facility; transfer of state-of-the-art technology; setting up of an aerospace eco-system in India; creation of a local supplier base of ancillary systems; employment of a well-trained Indian workforce. We would train engineers in Sweden, as we’re doing with Brazilian engineers right now for the Brazilian Gripen program. We see ourselves as a catalyst. We will provide India with cutting-edge technology which will energise India’s aerospace ecosystem.”

A usually reticent Stockholm has thrown its weight behind Saab. Sweden-India discussions centre on a joint working group (JWG) that meets annually, in accordance with a 2009 Indo-Swedish defence cooperation agreement. After the last JWG meeting in Delhi on September 29-30, the two national security advisors met in October in the first Indo-Swedish “strategic dialogue”. Ramming home the message, Sweden’s prime minister, Stefan Lofven, travelled to India in February for the “Make in India” exhibition in Mumbai.

According to a joint release after his meeting with Modi: “The two prime ministers… agreed that under the rubric of Make in India, cooperation possibilities between their respective defence industries could be identified and taken forward appropriately, including in the field of aviation.”

On June 10, IAF boss, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha, travelled to Saab’s production facility in Linkoping, Sweden, and test flew the Gripen NG at a Swedish air base. There is talk of IAF test pilots travelling to Sweden to check out the fighter.

While the IAF apparently likes the Gripen NG, it does not want to disturb the Rafale negotiations, which it considers top priority. While not a Gen-5 fighter, the Gripen NG’s data link --- a key element in modern air combat --- is reputedly the world’s most advanced. Its avionics are built of Gallium Nitride, which delivers superior performance over conventional Gallium Arsenide avionics. The Gripen NG carries diverse weaponry from various countries, including the French Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM), reputedly the world’s most advanced, with an estimated range of about 150 kilometres. Independent researcher IHS Jane’s, finds the Gripen the cheapest contemporary fighter to operate.


F-16 Block 70 offer

Going toe-to-toe with Saab, a characteristically aggressive Lockheed Martin is pushing hard on its offer, made through the Indo-US Defence Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI), to shift its F-16 production line from Fort Worth, Texas to India.

Over the preceding four decades, 4,588 F-16s have been built, in 138 versions, for 27 user countries, the sheer size of that production run making it a cheap and affordable fighter. But now F-16 orders have dried up, and Lockheed Martin wants Forth Worth fully turned over to building the thousands of F-35 Lightening II joint strike fighters (JSFs) on order.

“An Indian F-16 order clearly serves multiple US interests. It would revitalise the F-16 production chain, which is about to shut down; sell India the 1970s production line instead of just junking it; allow Fort Worth to focus on building F-35s; and strengthen defence ties with New Delhi”, notes a senior IAF officer.

At a media briefing in New Delhi last Friday, Lockheed Martin’s Randy Howard made it clear that production would be shifted to India only if the IAF buys the F-16.

Howard talked up the “next generation avionics” of the Block 70 version of the F-16, but IAF officials are sceptical. Its APG-83 Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR), while a reputed AESA radar, has been built by Northrop Grumman since 2014 for the US and Taiwanese air forces. Nor is the “high speed data network” and the “upgraded core computer” that Howard advertised noticeably superior to what is on the older Block 50/52. Analysts wonder what changes justify a new block number.

Within the IAF, which has for the last four decades, focused its training and tactics on fighting Pakistan F-16s, there is entrenched resistance to buying that fighter. Further, the air marshals are certain Washington would never allow Lockheed Martin to offer the kind of holistic proposal and technology transfer that Saab has offered.

Assuaging these concerns, Ben Schwartz, who heads aerospace and defence for the US-India Business Council says: “The F-16 offers would come in as FMS deals with unprecedented technology transfer and Make-in-India characteristics. A lot of work has gone into evaluating the level of indigenization – more so than in any other case that people can recall.” Backing him up, a senior Pentagon official says: “In US-India negotiations today, you have to throw away all the assumptions of the past about what Washington will allow and what it will deny. Don’t assume anything is off the table.”

Boeing officials, who have separately offered to build the heavy, twin-engine F/A-18E/F Super Hornet in India, say their “Make in India” beats Lockheed Martin’s. “If India wants an indigenous aerospace eco-system, it makes no sense to buy an old production line, with all its inefficiencies. Boeing is offering a fighter that will remain in service through the 2040s, and possibly the 2050s, far longer than the F-16, and offering to build it on a brand new Indian production line”, says one official.

Boeing’s most powerful argument for the Super Hornet is perhaps its utility for the Indian Navy. After worrying questions from the Comptroller and Auditor General over the Russian MiG-29K’s ability to operate off a carrier, there is talk of the need to hedge India’s bets for the second indigenous aircraft carrier, INS Vishal.

With three offers in hand, the defence ministry has not yet taken the initiative, nor issued a single “request for information” (RFI) or “request for proposals” (RFP). New Delhi has not divulged whether it wants competitive tendering, or a government-to-government strategic acquisition. The long-promised policy for nominating Indian “strategic partners (SP) remains in limbo, leaving foreign vendors with little idea about who could be their Indian partner.

Says a senior executive from one of the vendor companies: “It may well emerge that New Delhi is using discussions with Saab, Lockheed and Boeing as a stalking horse for the Rafale negotiation, putting pressure on Dassault with the range of options that India has. Until there is clarity, we can only continue groping in the dark.”

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Ashokk » 17 Aug 2016 00:49

Air Force Gets New Airfield In Arunachal Pradesh, 100 Km From China Border
New Delhi: The Indian Air Force is getting a new airfield in Arunachal Pradesh, barely 100 km from the border with China. The refurbished advanced landing ground or ALG at Pasighat in south east Arunachal Pradesh will be operational from August 19.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Will » 17 Aug 2016 02:18

ranjan.rao wrote:My first post..after re-registering..thanks to mods for approving the request within an hour...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rafale-deal-Negotiating-team-submits-final-report/articleshow/53671494.cms


I guess nothing major in this report except that this report will be reviewed by DAC on 18th Aug, who knows it might be resent for further review and further changes :rotfl: :wink:



Then it will go to the finance ministry who will send it back to the MOD then it will go back to a DAC sitting and so on . It will be another couple of years before it reaches the CCS. The more things change the more they remain the same. DAC clearing anything means zilch. The DAC has cleared billions of dollars worth of equipment in the past two years. Have there been any concrete developments on the ground.NO! It's all up there ... In the air. :evil:

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby ranjan.rao » 17 Aug 2016 02:23

^^ sir you made my implicit sarcasm explicit. Although from my meager sources in IAF, I hear the deal will go through, just that they are not sure when.. :rotfl: :rotfl: I salute your optimism to expect closure in 2 years, my sense is MP has told MoD officers ki bhai khud hi wapis bhej diya karo mera time mat waste kiya karo ispe.. That said its a highly capable aircraft, I will welcome it's induction in IAF and will do rajnath style "Kadi Ninda" of any delay in its induction :((

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Khalsa » 17 Aug 2016 03:22

Hi Rafael Thread (actually to the Negotiation Gods , french and indian)
Just submitting my rant that July has passed and so has half of August.
The Rafael remains a Mirage

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby ranjan.rao » 17 Aug 2016 03:48

welcome back Khalsa

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Khalsa » 17 Aug 2016 05:47

Thanks Ranjan, it does feel good to be back.
Its like someone renovated my house and ... this new forum and layout and ... OMG

best independence day ever thanks to BR

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Manish_Sharma » 17 Aug 2016 08:09

I have written to parrikar, pmo and amit shah that in offsets for Rafale maybe the high-grade alloy parts tail etc. of Tejas which is getting manufactured in france or other western countries can be set up to be manufactured here.

I request all BRFites to also do the same.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Amoghvarsha » 18 Aug 2016 18:06

18 is here.What did the DAC decide?

I started lurking on BR when the first RFI for MMRCA was issued,11 years have passed,i have now joined BRF but the aircraft is yet to join IAF.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby arijitkm » 20 Aug 2016 11:23

Govt seeks 134 million euro waiver from France for Rafale deal Hindustan Times

As the NDA government inches toward closing the multi-billion euro Rafale fighter deal, New Delhi has sought a waiver from a key provision that requires India to shell out an advance guarantee.
If France accepts the Indian demand, it will result in a saving of more than euro 134 million, South Block sources said on Friday.
The deal for 36 Rafale warplanes is expected to be worth around euro 7.3 billion.
The sources said the deal was stuck as India had put its foot down on doing away with the advance guarantee clause as it was a government-to-government sale. The sources said defence minister Manohar Parrikar has conveyed the Indian position on the issue to French authorities through diplomatic channels on Thursday. It is learnt all other issues have been resolved.
.....

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby pkudva » 21 Aug 2016 19:28

Gosh the saga never ends. Though it is always to have negotiation. But put new Pts is also not good specially when we know delaying the contract will only hurt IAF.
Hope some sense prevails in MOD, MOF & to CCS.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Khalsa » 22 Aug 2016 05:16

Ras Al Ghul wrote:18 is here.What did the DAC decide?
I started lurking on BR when the first RFI for MMRCA was issued,11 years have passed,i have now joined BRF but the aircraft is yet to join IAF.


Dear Ras....

Maybe you and Bruce should team up and bring down the negotiation committee

... ha ha

I read your name and it took me a few seconds tor realise why that name looked familiar
:-)

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby ranjan.rao » 22 Aug 2016 06:12

^^Mods have become really relaxed...I remember I applied for a name with something like DRDO_Arjun in it and I got a mail, you should select more humane...or something like that....probably i should have reregistered with the new name of dr zola

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Amoghvarsha » 23 Aug 2016 23:45

Khalsa wrote:
Ras Al Ghul wrote:18 is here.What did the DAC decide?
I started lurking on BR when the first RFI for MMRCA was issued,11 years have passed,i have now joined BRF but the aircraft is yet to join IAF.


Dear Ras....

Maybe you and Bruce should team up and bring down the negotiation committee

... ha ha

I read your name and it took me a few seconds tor realise why that name looked familiar
:-)


Negotiation committee?Its deal Breaking committee.The babudom of british legacy is killing us.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby shashankk » 24 Aug 2016 04:05

I am sure this deal is not going to be signed anytime soon if news about leaks of scorpene subs are true. New orders will go to Uncle Sam now .

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby ragupta » 24 Aug 2016 04:55

The deal will be signed, not at French pace, but on Indian terms.
Just because big ticket items are not signed does not mean other works are not going to strengthen armed forces. There are too many things to do besides signing big ticket items. lot can be done with those kind of money. Air forces requires dispropotionaly large money.

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby Karthik S » 24 Aug 2016 05:23

shashankk wrote:I am sure this deal is not going to be signed anytime soon if news about leaks of scorpene subs are true. New orders will go to Uncle Sam now .


Why to Uncle Sam ?

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Re: IAF Rafale News and Discussions - 26 May 2015

Postby shashankk » 24 Aug 2016 05:41

Karthik S wrote:
shashankk wrote:I am sure this deal is not going to be signed anytime soon if news about leaks of scorpene subs are true. New orders will go to Uncle Sam now .


Why to Uncle Sam ?


Two other fighters under contention for make in India are F sola and F athara and both are Unkil Sams plane. This leak would definitely play huge role in Indian decision.


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