Deterrence

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 16 Aug 2016 23:07

Just ignore the buffoon like India ignores porkistan. Not even worth reporting.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 16 Aug 2016 23:13

The bluffers needn't be in any agreement whatsoever. Keep their bluffing musharrafs pinned and pointed while we strategize on the maal config and multiple lotus petals. Precision and metrics from lab works on the maal design is vital for Deterrence.

I don't want kakodkar ji saying that we bluffed too. As long as we are not "faith fools" here, we should be good.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 17 Aug 2016 06:56

x-post

Gerard wrote:China’s Perceptions of India as a Nuclear Weapons Power

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Aug 2016 09:57

^Xiaoping Yang is a visiting fellow...

yawn! going round the world in 80 days and then suddenly wake up from a dream.

modinomics will work, but our precision works must continue.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 18 Aug 2016 15:05

The World Must Prepare for an Sunni Islamic Nuclear Coalition

http://swarajyamag.com/world/the-world- ... -coalition

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Aug 2016 04:49

JE Menon wrote:The World Must Prepare for an Sunni Islamic Nuclear Coalition

http://swarajyamag.com/world/the-world- ... -coalition

Bullsh*t. These guys are cooked. They don't have the industrial capacity to threaten anyone.

Water scarcity, lack of industrialization and food production and these guys are supposed to somehow band together and form a nuclear coalition.

This is why these guys are probably begging the Chinese to save Pakistan.

The last hope for a dying civilization.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 25 Aug 2016 18:50

Pakistan has been running its 4 new Kushab reactors for a few years now. These 5 are not under IAEA safeguards.
They now have two Poo reprocessing plants, one at Chashma and a pilot level plant in PINSTECH.

How soon before they extract enough Poo to start churning out real bums?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 25 Aug 2016 20:58

RoyG wrote:
JE Menon wrote:The World Must Prepare for an Sunni Islamic Nuclear Coalition

http://swarajyamag.com/world/the-world- ... -coalition
Bullsh*t. These guys are cooked. They don't have the industrial capacity to threaten anyone.

Water scarcity, lack of industrialization and food production and these guys are supposed to somehow band together and form a nuclear coalition.

This is why these guys are probably begging the Chinese to save Pakistan.

The last hope for a dying civilization.

Point taken.

However, there is a problem here (assuming that they are thinking of forming such a coalition).

The citizenry facing problems are not the ones that are making such decisions. And, those making the decisions hardly are even aware of the problem or even if aware care for the problems their citizens face.

And, in the ultimate case, the basic idea - one that no one can stray away from - is to convert the entire world (to what is the only question Shia or Sunni).

I for one believe all these (silly) PC events will eventually culminate in some form of we-are-facing-existential-thread scenario. And, only then will the West act.

That some French have passed a half a**ed Burkini law is fine. Imagine if it were to passed in India.

Now take that to the nuclear level.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 25 Aug 2016 23:47

^That is why some say, export the Agni V to Pakistan

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Aug 2016 04:21

Fully agree!
Must tell the scientists to change coordinates to pindi the next time they phyrr one off ~~Wheeler~~ Abdul Kalam Island

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 26 Aug 2016 06:43

India's slow shift into a counter force posture is a signal that we have crossed a quantitative warhead threshold.

Air/Ground launched supersonic nuclear cruise missiles (also Pralay may be a hypersonic boost glide nuclear bunker buster) coupled w/ ABM development should be seen as part of an offensive defense strategy aimed at decapitating PA/Civilian leadership and destroying their nuclear assets on the ground.

IMO, first use has been thrown out the window especially given the growing fragility of the Pakistan state.

There are simply no guarantees in this business. No matter what we put on paper, the option to undertake an offensive strike can be exercised if need be.

In the event that Pakistan balkanizes, it would be in the interest of Pakjabis to quietly withdraw their nuclear assets from the adjoining territories and accept an Indian led disarmament initiative. The alternative is rather bleak for them.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 03 Sep 2016 20:58

arun wrote:X posted from the “India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011” thread.

“India’s Nuclear Options and Escalation Dominance” by Toby Dalton & George Perkovich:

Carnegie Endowment For International Peace

Since the early 2000s, Indian strategists have wrestled with the challenge of motivating Pakistan to demobilize anti-India terrorist groups while managing the potential for conflict escalation during a crisis. The growing prominence of nuclear weapons in Pakistan’s national security strategy casts a shadow of nuclear use over any potential military strategy India might consider to strike this balance. However, augmenting its nuclear options with tactical nuclear weapons is unlikely to bolster Indian deterrence in convincing ways. ……………………

Wow onlee.

In early 2016, India’s indigenous nuclear submarine, the 6,000-ton INS Arihant, was completing its final trials in the Bay of Bengal. Though the Arihant signals an important step in India’s military growth, the submarine’s design lacks the technical sophistication to move underwater undetected by its adversaries.
.....
Finally, the United States and China should coordinate their policies in order to maintain strategic stability in South Asia. For one, China and the United States should coordinate as to whether India or Pakistan is the core of their respective South Asia policies.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Sep 2016 21:04

^^
Strategic stability in sooth ayesa! Seems these two have bought into the Baki narrative. perhaps via China.

Not that it makes much difference with the US establishment but one must acknowledge that the NPA ayatollas don't give up.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 07 Sep 2016 00:15

Noted. Obama Unlikely to Vow No First Use of Nuclear Weapons

President Obama, who has weighed ruling out a first use of a nuclear weapon in a conflict, appears likely to abandon the proposal after top national security advisers argued that it could undermine allies and embolden Russia and China, according to several senior administration officials.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 07 Sep 2016 00:18

Not happening. CM only viable option for air launched nuclear missiles at stand off ranges.
Mr. President, kill the new cruise missile

We therefore urge President Obama to cancel the current plan to develop and buy 1,000 to 1,100 new nuclear-capable air-launched cruise missiles. Such strong U.S. leadership, coupled with a challenge to the other major nuclear powers to eliminate or, in the cases of China and India, forgo deployment of this extremely destabilizing class of weapons, would reduce the risk of nuclear weapons use and be a historic practical step in the direction of a world without nuclear weapons.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Sep 2016 00:22

ShauryaT wrote:Noted. Obama Unlikely to Vow No First Use of Nuclear Weapons
President Obama, who has weighed ruling out a first use of a nuclear weapon in a conflict, appears likely to abandon the proposal after top national security advisers argued that it could undermine allies and embolden Russia and China, according to several senior administration officials.

As PRC and TSP grow closer together with NoKo in the shadows, India can also reconsider NFU on same grounds of reasoning.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 07 Sep 2016 06:00

ramana wrote:As PRC and TSP grow closer together with NoKo in the shadows, India can also reconsider NFU on same grounds of reasoning.

India's NFU does not apply to nuclear weapon states.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 07 Sep 2016 06:11

NFU is for public consumption.

We are cannisterizing our missiles now. The warheads have to be mated.

A decision was made to tighten the noose around Pakistan a few years back.

We'll be delivering the knockout blow before their missiles and bombers lift off.

Simply sitting around while Pakistan crumbles waiting for a first strike isn't going to happen.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Sep 2016 06:53

Pakistan claims that it's developing a new maritime doctrine for IOR (though it has got nothing to do with the IOR). My immediate guess was that the doctrine was to do with the n-subs from China. The below, from the report, caught my eye and confirmed my suspicion.

Mr. Sandila said the two areas that required special attention in the debate on maritime doctrine were development of an assured second-strike capability and the increasing need for delving into cooperative mechanisms as a tool for crisis management. . . . . development of better ties with allied navies

To me, the three emphasized parts above indicate a clear closer cooperation between PlAN & PN and impending sale of n-subs from China.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Sep 2016 07:21

USI specail issue on Pakis nooks
http://usiofindia.org/Publications/Journal/Index/

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Sep 2016 21:01

BBC News - The Saddam factor in North Korea's nuclear strategy

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37321686

williams · Post by **williams** » 11 Sep 2016 21:28

NFU is for public consumption.

I agree NFU is to show that we are responsible and we are not crazy. But, I am pretty sure powers that be, have factored in a preemptive strike scenario. But we need more satellites and detection capability to do such a preemptive operation. Especially on the Chinese side, we have some gaps. There are also gaps on how we could respond to things like non-state actors, Paki-Chini joint covert operation, Chinese subs masquerading as Paki subs etc are things that we should be grappling with. I have not seen an public pronouncement of our policy in such scenarios. Hopefully Doval's team have a plan. We cannot wish away anything in our neighborhood.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Sep 2016 21:59

Austin wrote:BBC News - The Saddam factor in North Korea's nuclear strategy

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37321686

Stupid article.

NK isn't a push over state like Iraq and Libya.

They have the full backing of Russia and China.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 11 Sep 2016 22:18

Things have changed a lot and words like "deterrence" or MAD are concepts of 20th century. Most likely thing is going to be dirty bomb.
Most likely scenario:
- Dirty bomb in a European city (London or Paris). Just the news of high radiation will bring down the city and wipe out economy. Property price tumbling down and business fleeing to other "safe" city. If Saudi Arabia is squeezed to much (oil prices,human rights,personal attack on princes) then they will finance such act before going to be camel herder themselves.
-Any indian city (not Delhi). Most likely Banglore or Mumbai.......to teach India a lesson. It can be done by Bakistani on behalf of China using local terrorist outfit. Most probably it will be material will be stolen from some Indian institute and Chinese and Baki media will warn the world about safety at Indian institutions.
This is the easiest way of bringing down India. NO armed conflict and and we can not use nuclear weapons. That is what I am afraid. Just the rumor of enhanced radiation in media will start panic and this will be on a mega scale . Does any body remember panic in Surat during bubonic plague?

kit · Post by **kit** » 11 Sep 2016 23:36

Maybe India needs more control over the media to prevent hoaxes / mass panic

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Sep 2016 23:57

kit wrote:Maybe India needs more control over the media to prevent hoaxes / mass panic

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 12 Sep 2016 10:36

rsingh wrote: -Any indian city (not Delhi). Most likely Banglore or Mumbai.......to teach India a lesson. It can be done by Bakistani on behalf of China using local terrorist outfit. Most probably it will be material will be stolen from some Indian institute and Chinese and Baki media will warn the world about safety at Indian institutions....

Not just media, many of our so called strategists are even thousand steps ahead, usuf unzhawala writes thread in indiadefenceforum that even in case Delhi and Mumbai are destroyed by pakistan using nuclear weapons, Bharat should not strike back pakistan in same manner, but just make sure that pakistan is divided in four different nations.

It seems this guy usuf feels no pain at the killing of 40 million Bharatvaasis, he still worries that his fellow muslim pakistanis should not die of nuclear retaliation.

While all the time posturing as Bharat's well wisher strategist.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 12 Sep 2016 10:53

RoyG wrote:
Austin wrote:BBC News - The Saddam factor in North Korea's nuclear strategy

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37321686
Stupid article.

NK isn't a push over state like Iraq and Libya.

They have the full backing of Russia and China.

Even then having a Nuclear Bomb bring them at a qualitatively new level and no one worth a penny in statecraft would not learn about fate of Libya leadership where MI6 effectively defanged its BM and Nuclear program and US took Gadaffi out !

NK test should be a Welcome One ..atleast they need those bum to defend their state and ability to reach SK , Japan and beyond is a crucial part of the equation.

China and Russia would be seriously worried about War in Korean Pen and consequent Refugee situation , all the NoKo folks would end up knocking their door and that would be in millions , so they would tacitly support the regime I suspect but openly condemn the test

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Sep 2016 18:56

rsingh wrote:Things have changed a lot and words like "deterrence" or MAD are concepts of 20th century. Most likely thing is going to be dirty bomb.
Most likely scenario:
- Dirty bomb in a European city (London or Paris). Just the news of high radiation will bring down the city and wipe out economy. Property price tumbling down and business fleeing to other "safe" city. If Saudi Arabia is squeezed to much (oil prices,human rights,personal attack on princes) then they will finance such act before going to be camel herder themselves.
-Any indian city (not Delhi). Most likely Banglore or Mumbai.......to teach India a lesson. It can be done by Bakistani on behalf of China using local terrorist outfit. Most probably it will be material will be stolen from some Indian institute and Chinese and Baki media will warn the world about safety at Indian institutions.
This is the easiest way of bringing down India. NO armed conflict and and we can not use nuclear weapons. That is what I am afraid. Just the rumor of enhanced radiation in media will start panic and this will be on a mega scale . Does any body remember panic in Surat during bubonic plague?

A dirty bomb won't bring India down. Media rumours will make people of my social class run for cover. But the "service class" and the "ragpickers" have nowhere else to go and they will simply pick up what's left and go on - creating a slum in the contaminated area while NGOs do "research" on the effects of radiation.

5 years after the test bomb on an Indian city, Europe will get hit as has been the case so far. Unless Pakistan is reconstructed to give peace a chance

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Sep 2016 18:59

Manish_Sharma wrote:
rsingh wrote: -Any indian city (not Delhi). Most likely Banglore or Mumbai.......to teach India a lesson. It can be done by Bakistani on behalf of China using local terrorist outfit. Most probably it will be material will be stolen from some Indian institute and Chinese and Baki media will warn the world about safety at Indian institutions....
Not just media, many of our so called strategists are even thousand steps ahead, usuf unzhawala writes thread in indiadefenceforum that even in case Delhi and Mumbai are destroyed by pakistan using nuclear weapons, Bharat should not strike back pakistan in same manner, but just make sure that pakistan is divided in four different nations.

It seems this guy usuf feels no pain at the killing of 40 million Bharatvaasis, he still worries that his fellow muslim pakistanis should not die of nuclear retaliation.

While all the time posturing as Bharat's well wisher strategist.

Just want to point out that Yusuf is a friend of mine. Of course if you have a disagreement with him - please keep it on DFI and don't port it to BRF

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 12 Sep 2016 19:10

BRF isn't your personal property, that your personal friends can't be criticised here, he posts here also. And I have written of DFI too. Since you're not a moderator you can't order me to do anything.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Sep 2016 19:24

Manish_Sharma wrote:BRF isn't your personal property, that your personal friends can't be criticised here, he posts here also. And I have written of DFI too. Since you're not a moderator you can't order me to do anything.

Neither ordering you nor claiming my property. It is a request. You are not compelled to comply - you are free to go ahead and say what you want. But in general I do not think it is a good idea to bring disputes from other forums on here, and by the tone of your reply you have now put me in a position where I am going to take sides . To me it seems that you are looking for support for your views on BRF. Perhaps you aren't getting enough traction on DFI and need to bring it on here for a little whine. That is my opinion, which as you probably understand - I am free to hold and express.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 12 Sep 2016 20:08

shiv wrote: To me it seems that you are looking for support for your views on BRF. Perhaps you aren't getting enough traction on DFI and need to bring it on here for a little whine. That is my opinion, which as you probably understand - I am free to hold and express.

I respect your right to have opinion on this, when BRF was down I went there and posted against Usuf's views and they opposed me very much, though he himself never entered the scene.

Usuf's lecture was posted here on BRF by Karan M, and I think this should be recorded here that what his views are.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Sep 2016 21:19

Manish_Sharma wrote: I think this should be recorded here that what his views are.

Please feel free to record Yusuf's views. I am unconvinced that you have reproduced them accurately or honestly when you quoted him. The reason I mentioned that I know him is not to make you get your knickers in the sort of knot that you got them into, but to point out that I do not think your post reflects his views, knowing him. I quote your exact words below. If you feel so strongly about it, please back up your claim by posting a link to the discussion so that I (and others who might wish to) can go and join it on DFI rather than hearing a one sided story from a person who sounds pathetically butt-hurt because people on some other forum disagreed with him.

Manish_Sharma wrote: Not just media, many of our so called strategists are even thousand steps ahead, usuf unzhawala writes thread in indiadefenceforum that even in case Delhi and Mumbai are destroyed by pakistan using nuclear weapons, Bharat should not strike back pakistan in same manner, but just make sure that pakistan is divided in four different nations.

It seems this guy usuf feels no pain at the killing of 40 million Bharatvaasis, he still worries that his fellow muslim pakistanis should not die of nuclear retaliation.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 12 Sep 2016 21:53

Manish ji, with due respect we do not mention (or quote) other forum on BR. It is kind of unwritten rule. Anyway I think it is time to stop this tit-for tat. Request to both of you.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 13 Sep 2016 00:31

shiv wrote: .....on DFI rather than hearing a one sided story from a person who sounds pathetically butt-hurt because people on some other forum disagreed with him.

It is you who is a pathetically butt-hurt jerk.

You had left this forum in a huff BUTT-HURT and joined DFI. If I remember correctly you had told Rohitvats that you are not coming back. But you crawled back in, nobody asked you to come back.

With pathetic excuse of BRF should be modeled like DFI, but you were totally rejected. And shamelessly you pathetic beggar had no choice but to stay.

I quoted usuf on his thread and opposed him but he never answered. I had made it a point to put it on BRF as soon as its up.

Its your personal view that BRF is like a personal club, you had wrote this in response to Sanku, and I quoted and threw that post on your face when you crawled back in from DFI to BRF saying BRF is like a private club. We should be open.

Usuf wrote:
I have a different take on how India should respond to a Pakistani first strike.

India does not have to respond with nuclear weapons to a Pakistani nuke strike.

------------------------------------
My Take:

It seems the writer Usuf is more worried about deaths of porkis. While casually drawing a picture of Delhi and Mumbai obliterated. It does not anger him that the Nation Bharat that has fed him, educated and gave oppurtunity to rise and prosper GETS NUKED by suar porkis.

Imagine Delhi and Mumbai 2 cities and surrounding area of 5 crore population dead, and Bharat's army moves to dismember porkistan that that land of inbreds marrying their own cousins and producing retarded inbred race don't get to face the radiation like us Bharatvaasis?

While such a big disaster has happened army will move to porkis as nothing has happened its supply lines unaffected and all.... waah kya baat kahi. Clap!

And what will dismemberment get us. Same as those inbred perverted bhooka bangladeshis did, burn our BSF jawaans alive during Vajpayee regime.

Same 4 - 5 muslim nations Baluch, Sindh, Punjab & Pakhtunkhwa will be doing.

Retardedness of the idea is that you take a bottle of poison wash its lable "pakistan" off. Divide the contents of the same bottle in 4 smaller ones with new lables AND THEN drink it down you will be all right. 'Poison' won't effect you. Haa haa genius Usuf.

This is how probably ISI's ghazwa e hind branch thinks.

Pakistan & Bangladesh muslim population was 6 to 7 crore in 1947 at partition time.

In Bharat muslim population was around 4 crore at that time.

Now porkis and bangladeshi populations are around 36 to 38 crores. That means growth of whopping 8 to 9 times.

After dismemberment bangladesh remains enemy to Bharat.

Same will be from dismembered porki nations.

Another weird thing Usuf says is that we can't obliterate the whole pakistan with nukes, so why use, just using conventional gola barood kill all porki army + those enemies inside porki land. THAT IS ALMOST WHOLE OF PORKLAND !!! How can conventional ammunition achieve what nucler can't?

And enemy china will be laughing seeing Bharat losing 2 biggest cities and weakened considerably.

Nope it seems under the garb of well wishing, Usuf is trying to save big chunk of muslim population on Bharatiya Upmahadweep.

Our nuclear retaliation should be on the dense part of population on this map:
http://www.bestcountryreports.com/media ... st_Pop.jpg

And pop goes porkis. And then we should also nuke Bangladesh as a weakened nuke Bharat will be easy prey for them too to eat up and mischief in our eastern borders.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 13 Sep 2016 00:32

R Singh ji, the rule is about not quoting porki forums, other's can be quoted IIRC.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 13 Sep 2016 00:37

wow Manish. calm down man. Why self goals here.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 13 Sep 2016 00:43

Nahin dnivas ji, this guy always behave like this is his personal property, Arun_S has to leave, this should happen this way. He knows he can't defend usuf by quoting his full post here, so he goes on needling with "butt-hurt" "pathetic" "knickers-twist" kind of phrases hiding in the post.

I remember when he had left the forum angrily, rohitvats said he isn't coming back, he must have checked. But poor pathetic guy had to crawl back in, and now because he has usuf as his personal friend no one can criticize.

Kartik writes a post asking about exhaust and he starts throwing accusations at Kartik.

Philip writes much much more insulting posts towards DRDO etc. but no he's also his personal friend.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Sep 2016 00:49

Calm down folks. No need to get personal.
M_S you made your point and shiv did too.