Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3826
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby hnair » 29 Aug 2016 22:28

ranjbe wrote:I have mentioned in a previous post the curious case of Shri. M. K. Bhadrakumar, the brilliant Malyali Dalit who never made it past second-tier ambassadorships in his Foreign Service career. Contrast this to another smart, well-educated Kerala Dalit K.R. Narayanan of the Foreign Service, who was ambassador to USA, External Affairs Minister and President of India. Or the former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, another Malyali Dalit. What is missing in MKB that given his caste background, education and intelligence, that he could not achieve anything better? An insider source has said that MKB was so hard-core left-wing that even the IFS which has always had a socialistic bias, could not tolerate him. One suspects given his hard pro-Chinese ranting, that he could possibly be compromised.


Shree M K Bhadrakumar is not a dalit, but from the economically and politically powerful Ezhava community, who are classified as OBCs. His father was a well known leftist and was the CPI(undivided) MP from one of the two Lok Sabha constituencies of Trivandrum, called Chirayunkeezh. Probably Shree Bhadrakumar was never given any prominent position, because, well, he is so-so. Late Shree KR Narayanan too was hardly a shining star in IFS, but served his purpose very well as a symbol and went straight to politics by invitation. Shree KR Narayanan was a core leftie with a genuine chip in the shoulder, if one remembers his "break from tradition" interview (here is a familiar name jerking off about it) with N Ram before 1998 Independence Day.

In the IFS pantheon, Shree MKB's writing plays to the devil's advocate side. His sort provides that "sympathy handie", that the paki elites crave for, whenever they get kicked in their nads. Taking him seriously is counter productive. His purpose is not to make us jingos happy like Shree Parthasarathy et al. Khan, UQ maintains a vast array of such dhoti-shiver-on-demand types, since 19th century.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16946
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby Rahul M » 29 Aug 2016 22:34

MKB and brilliance do not belong in the same sentence.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54175
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby ramana » 29 Aug 2016 23:35

ranjbe, You regularly bring in caste into discussion. Consider your self on notice for trolling.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54175
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby ramana » 29 Aug 2016 23:36

HN, KRN has served the nation very well in strategic areas.

Atmavik
BRFite
Posts: 712
Joined: 24 Aug 2016 04:43

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby Atmavik » 29 Aug 2016 23:52

http://pakchinanews.pk/unfortunate-incident-between-chinese-engineers-working-on-cpec-and-police/ (the go to place for Taller and Deeper fantasies)


Unfortunate Incident Between Chinese Engineers Working On CPEC And Police

Multan: Heavy contingents of police beat Chinese engineers who were working on the China Pakistan Economic Project (CPEC) at the Multan-Sukkur Motorway in Shujaabad where Chinese engineers have their base camp over the continuation of work. Two Chinese engineers had sustained major injuries and the others had minor injuries in Moza Chaddhar in Shujaabad said an inside source.

It was said that police smashed the fingers of Chinese engineer Leu while another engineer Chwoo had serious injuries on his back. About 20 Chinese workers were working in the area and the government provided them residence at the Multan PC Colony on Sher Shah Road. Chinese workers decided to continue working on Tuesday night at 11:30 on the base camp. Chief Security Office Inspector Yousaf Haroon raised objections on their stay without an NOC(& hafta) and demanded that they leave the site.

CSO Raja Ram ( :roll: Raa Agent)forced the Chinese workers to leave the site. SHO Muhammad also Ashraf exchanged hot words and beat the workers while receiving minor injuries himself. The Chinese workers told the police they wanted to stay and finish the work.

The Acting SP Operations Multan, Rizwan Ahmad has said that the matter does not concern him and CPO Azhar Ikram would be investigating the matter. Azhar was contacted for a comment however he wasn’t available. The SHO Ashraf said the incident happened in Basti Malok jurisdiction. A Chinese interpreter also refused to comment on the incident.

Comments:

Ahmad says:
Aug 26, 2016

I’m feeling so embarrassed right now. China, we’re sorry!
We have the worst police in the world. They behave even worse with us.
Army should take the security of our esteemed guests in its own hands.
Peace!

interpreter says:
Aug 26, 2016

sameer , i had been working with chinese as translator/interpretor .its and obligation for chinese worker to listen to their COS and there are about 20 points of the security memo given by SPU(special police unit) for the security of chinese ,if any one point is not fulfilled CSO can ask them to go back . and ironically many chinese engineer take these point or the presence of police for their security pointless and many times behave impolitely .
so i recommend you not to judge this incidence on the basis of that chinese are doing so good for us (investing 46 $bn) ,its more for their own interst . moreover u can judge them on just one day story .who knows earlier how many times police may have warned them or given them the extension to work for longer period of time.

SBajwa
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5299
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 21:35
Location: Attari

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby SBajwa » 30 Aug 2016 00:10

so i recommend you not to judge this incidence on the basis of that chinese are doing so good for us (investing 46 $bn) ,its more for their own interst . moreover u can judge them on just one day story .who knows earlier how many times police may have warned them or given them the extension to work for longer period of time.


Police did the right thing by beating the pork eating, massage demanding Chinese engineers. Bakis should not napak their "pak" nation with $46 billion of the pork eaters!

partha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4003
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 15:25

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby partha » 30 Aug 2016 00:11

^
So basically what Ahmad is saying is that before complaining of Paki Police brutality, Chinese should understand Pakis themselves are the worst victims of Police brutality.

anupmisra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8280
Joined: 12 Nov 2006 04:16
Location: New York

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby anupmisra » 30 Aug 2016 00:23

Can someone breakdown the so-called $46 Bn. "investment" into common equity, preferred equity, implied equity, credit line (for Chinese firms) mezz/bridge and project loan?

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8441
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby Peregrine » 30 Aug 2016 03:59

anupmisra wrote:Can someone breakdown the so-called $46 Bn. "investment" into common equity, preferred equity, implied equity, credit line (for Chinese firms) mezz/bridge and project loan?


This seems to be the Second Large Investment by China. In 2010 or so the Chinese signed a number of agreements for a total of around USD 35 Billion. Any body have an idea as to what projects were agreed-completed?

Cheers Image

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10018
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby sum » 30 Aug 2016 05:43

partha wrote:^
So basically what Ahmad is saying is that before complaining of Paki Police brutality, Chinese should understand Pakis themselves are the worst victims of Police brutality.

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11204
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby Gagan » 30 Aug 2016 07:20

partha wrote:^
So basically what Ahmad is saying is that before complaining of Paki Police brutality, Chinese should understand Pakis themselves are the worst victims of Police brutality.

400% correct ! :rotfl: :rotfl:

ranjan.rao
BRFite
Posts: 518
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 01:21

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby ranjan.rao » 30 Aug 2016 08:05

well thats not very different from our side of border..we can laugh at it ....but the way delhi police got the initial leads in Nirbhaya case serves as an example to us.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby shiv » 30 Aug 2016 08:35

ranjan.rao wrote:well thats not very different from our side of border..we can laugh at it ....but the way delhi police got the initial leads in Nirbhaya case serves as an example to us.

I don't visit this thread as often as I used to. But one of the original aims of this thread was to highlight Pakistan ans its deficiencies, both for information and as a propaganda effort. That called for limiting self flagellation about India. I used to think that was a good idea given the issues we face with Pakistan and the millions of critics of India we have.

All we have to do to see criticism of Indians and rape is to visit many Indian news sites and any Pakistani site. I thought maybe we should not replicate that here

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21126
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby Prem » 30 Aug 2016 09:07

US-India defence pact to impact Pakistan, China
Yaad Naa Jaaye Seventy One Kii, Dill Jo Buullaye usko India yaad Dillaaaye

WASHINGTON: The United States and India on Monday signed a defence agreement that will have a direct impact on both Pakistan and China.
The Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA) allows the two allies to use each other’s military facilities for checking China’s growing influence in Asia and in the fight against terrorists.The US and India are also finalising two foundational agreements — the Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-spatial Cooperation (BECA).The logistics agreement provides for each country to use the other for supplies, spare parts, services and refuelling. Effectively, US armed forces can operate out of Indian bases, and India can use US bases across the globe.“China and Pakistan beware — this week, India and US sign major war pact,” warned the Forbes magazine in an article.The US media noted that the agreement was a key part of the Obama administration’s strategy to contain China, which has been spreading its influence across Asia.The media reported that the US Navy planned to deploy 60 per cent of its surface ships in the Indo-Pacific in the near future.The media reports pointed out that unlike Afghanistan and Iraq, where the US had to build everything from scratch, India already had the military facilities the United States could use when needed.

The Indian media, however, warned that such agreements could irk Russia, a long-time Indian ally. But Indian media reports also noted that Prime Minister Modi did not appear much concerned about Russia’s possible reaction to his closeness to the US. The Modi administration had committed itself to building a new alliance with the US and its allies, such as Japan and Australia, the reports added.The US media noted that India remained on hostile terms with China and this hostility had moved from border disputes to economic and strategic competition for influence.They noted that the US would like to use the LEMOA to counter China’s growing military might — particularly airbases — in the South China Sea. But the agreement would allow India and the US also to use each other’s facilities against their common enemy, religious terrorism.
The reports noted that a recent bombing by the militant Islamic State group in Bangladesh rang alarm bells in Washington where defence experts were already worried about its efforts to increase its influence in Pakistan and Afghanistan.“Having LEMOA makes it much simpler for American naval and air forces to fight there. The US does not have actual bases in India. But, it has the next best thing — a simple way to use India’s bases,” Forbes noted.The magazine described the LEMOA as “the key way-station on agreements still to come of military technology sharing of tremendous importance for India”.The future agreements, like the CISMOA and BECA, would help India “stand up to the emerging superpower of China”, the report added.But experts warned that India’s ability to build jet engines or acquire UAV technology from the US would further weaken Pakistan’s conventional defence capability as well.The United States already recognises India as a Major Defence Partner, helped it join the Missile Technology Control Regime and is willing to provide licences for top US defence technology.The Forbes article noted that arms India acquired from the US would help it “in many friction points”, such as in the fight against terrorist groups like Jaish-e-Mohammed.It pointed out that the group was considered an enemy both by the US and India and its chief Masood Azhar was on India’s hit list.Earlier this year, India tried to persuade the United Nations to declare Mr Azhar a global terrorist but China blocked the move.“So while the South China Sea may seem far off from India, China is breathing down India’s neck, up close and personal,” Forbes commented.

Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10417
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby Vayutuvan » 30 Aug 2016 09:25

anupmisra wrote:Can someone breakdown the so-called $46 Bn. "investment" into common equity, preferred equity, implied equity, credit line (for Chinese firms) mezz/bridge and project loan?

Boss, good question. May be a few (or lot more) billion khota sikka are invested inner pakistayinat? Those inner pakistaniyat khota sikka will be flushed out little by little over a period of an year or two. :mrgreen:

munna
BRFite
Posts: 1392
Joined: 18 Nov 2007 05:03
Location: Pee Arr Eff's resident Constitution Compliance Strategist (Phd, with upper hand)

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby munna » 30 Aug 2016 10:05

Former UNDP director takes aim at Pakistan's elite in scathing final interview

This Pak tribune report carries certain interesting observations, although forumites are aware of them, it is significant that a UN babu is uttering such facts with impunity . Posting the salient ones:

In a scathing criticism of the Pakistani elite, the former director of United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) for Pakistan Marc-André Franche said <snip>
“You cannot have an elite that takes advantage of very cheap and uneducated labour when it comes to making money, and when it is time to party it is found in London, and when it’s time to buy things it is in Dubai, and when it’s time to buy property it invests in Dubai or Europe or New York. The elite needs to decide do they want a country or not,”, according to the Business Recorder.


1) “I have visited some very large landowners, who have exploited the land for centuries, paid nearly zero money for the water, and how they almost sometimes hold people in bondage. And then they come to the United Nations or other agencies and ask us to invest in water, sanitation, and education for the people in their district. I find that quite embarrassing.”

2)“The fact that even in 2016, Pakistan has 38 per cent poverty; it has districts that live like sub-Saharan Africa; that the basic human rights of minorities, women and the people of FATA are not respected; that this country has not been able to get its act together and hold a census; or that it has not been able to push for reforms in FATA, an area that is institutionally living in 17th century. It is extremely preoccupying.”

3)“The media is one of the pillars of democracy and the media has to educate the public. Unfortunately, the level of dependence of the government on military authorities, and the degree by which a lot of media in this country is manipulated by powerful sources, are sources of erosion of democracy and erosion of the institutions that are the foundations of this country.”

4)“The apartheid of opportunities in Pakistan is horrible, which is why so many young people are trying to leave the country. This is one of the issues that UNDP will continue to work on in Pakistan for sure – investing in both improving the quality of data, and the quality of analysis of inequality.”

5)Although, he didn’t think there was an imminent threat of a revolt by the poor, he did see it happening eventually. “I don’t see those circumstances emerging in Pakistan at the moment. But it will eventually happen in one way or the other. You cannot have a country, where nearly 40 per cent of the people live in poverty.”

partha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4003
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 15:25

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby partha » 30 Aug 2016 10:13

Prem wrote:US-India defence pact to impact Pakistan, China
Yaad Naa Jaaye Seventy One Kii, Dill Jo Buullaye usko India yaad Dillaaaye

WASHINGTON: The United States and India on Monday signed a defence agreement that will have a direct impact on both Pakistan and China.
The Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA) allows the two allies to use each other’s military facilities for checking China’s growing influence in Asia and in the fight against terrorists.

The headline says US and India signed an agreement that will impact Pakistan, China and the article says the agreement aids in checking China's influence and in fight against terrorists.

So Pakistan == Terrorists. Is the author RAW agent?

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2327
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby g.sarkar » 30 Aug 2016 10:43

http://www.sify.com/news/modis-balochis ... bijde.html
Modi's Balochistan riposte irks Pakistan lackeys
n my earlier article, a query had been raised, “Why does India continue to produce so many Jaichand and Mir Jafars? Is India a cursed nation or is treachery a part of our DNA?” The response was overwhelming. Everyone agreed with the fundamental premise of the above assertion. However, different reasons were cited for insidious treachery that afflicts our character. There was no unanimity. Whereas the puzzle continues to defy resolution, the gravity of the issue got highlighted once again recently. While addressing the All Party Meet on Jammu & Kashmir on 12 August 2016, Prime Minister Modi reminded Pakistan that it bombs its own citizens using fighter planes. “The time has come when Pakistan shall have to answer to the world for the atrocities committed by it against people in Balochistan and PoK (Pakistan-occupied Kashmir),” he added.
...
The reaction of Pakistani establishment on reference to Balochistan was on the expected lines. It accused India of crossing the ‘red line’ and threatened to raise the issue of Kashmir at the next UN General Assembly session more forcefully. In addition, it registered police cases against the Baloch leaders Brahamdagh Bugti, Harbiyar Marri and Banuk Karima Baloch for supporting Modi's statements on Balochistan. Hamid Karzai, Afghanistan’s former President commended Modi for his comments and asked Pakistan to see the gravity of the situation. “In Balochistan, there is extreme suffering at the hands of extremists promoted by state structures in Pakistan,” he said. Similarly, Bangladesh has supported India’s stand on human rights abuses by Pakistan in Balochistan and hailed Modi for his Independence Day speech.
.....
Gautam

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7309
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby disha » 30 Aug 2016 11:27

Chota-Mota dhamaka in Kyrgyzstan in Cheeni Consulate. Must be pindi chana.

sudhan
BRFite
Posts: 1103
Joined: 01 Jul 2009 17:53
Location: Timbuktoo..

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby sudhan » 30 Aug 2016 11:37

400% toilet gas exploshun. Nothing to do with the religion of peace...

partha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4003
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 15:25

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby partha » 30 Aug 2016 12:13

anupmisra wrote:Can someone breakdown the so-called $46 Bn. "investment" into common equity, preferred equity, implied equity, credit line (for Chinese firms) mezz/bridge and project loan?

It is all mostly soft loans. Poor Pakis are being properly scammed by the elites. All and sundry projects are included in CPEC. For example Lahore Metro Rail. Paki Govt has not made public the terms of agreement with China regarding CPEC.

http://epaper.brecorder.com/2016/07/29/1-page/780827-news.html
ISLAMABAD: Federal Minister for Planning and Development Ahsan Iqbal on Thursday informed Senate that the agreement on China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) is confidential that could not be made public because of the “sensitivity” of the multi-billion dollar project.


How is Lahore Metro Rail funded? A soft loan from China:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1090941
LAHORE: China has agreed to give $1.6 billion loan to Pakistan under Preferential Buyers’ Credit (PBC) scheme for launching metro train project in Lahore.


Note that interest rates are not mentioned for any of the CPEC related loans. Found one reference regarding a Sri Lankan project under PBC scheme :-

http://www.sundaytimes.lk/110619/BusinessTimes/bt01.html
The Chinese government has provided $891 million through the Exim Bank to finance Phase II of the Norochcholai Coal Power Plant Project in Puttalam District, under a Preferential Buyer's Credit Facility at an interest rate of around 4%. According to the terms and conditions of the Exim Bank, Chinese companies should be selected as the project contractor and for procurement projects, equipment supply shall in principle come from a Chinese exporter. In project procurement, priority shall be given to equipment, materials, technology or services from China. In principle, no less than 50% of total procurement shall be made in China; China expects nothing from Sri Lanka other than the honouring of the repayment conditions, he added.


Most of the projects are similarly funded and is being advertised as "investments". It will be fun when the time comes to repay the loans. Maybe one option is to ask the Chinese to collect it directly from Amreeka or IMF?

deejay
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3933
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby deejay » 30 Aug 2016 12:47

An article in Forbes. Read in full

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2016/08/28/indias-grand-gamble-with-china/2/#8ee8b662d060

...
For decades, New Delhi elites have tried to ignore the attacks. Modi, when he came to power in 2014, tried a different tack, reaching out to Islamabad, even inviting Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to his inauguration. And then in December, Modi, often derided as a “Hindu nationalist,” became the first Indian prime minister to visit Pakistan since 2004.

The outreach did not help. For one thing, the prime minister of Pakistan doesn’t run the country as Paskal notes. The military does.

“If the Pakistani military wanted peace with India, there would be peace with India,” she said to me. “And Pakistan’s military has the strong backing of China, in part because it suits Beijing to destabilize India.”

Modi lost his patience with the Pakistanis—and the Chinese—last week, executing a major turn of policy by uttering a single sentence. “I am grateful to the people of Balochistan, Gilgit, and Pakistan-occupied Kashmir who have thanked me in the past few days,” he said in his Independence Day address, on the 15th, at the Red Fort in Delhi.

India claims Gilgit, which Pakistan controls, as well as the part of Kashmir under administration of Islamabad. In Balochistan, a long-simmering insurgency threatens China’s cherished project, the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor.

The Corridor connects China’s so-called Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region with the Indian Ocean through north-south roads bisecting Pakistan. Those road cross Balochistan. The strategic Gwadar port is in that province, which includes more than 40% of the area of Pakistan.
...

Quoted portion on the second page of the article

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21860
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby chetak » 30 Aug 2016 14:04

1876 treaty between the Khan of Kalat and the British; if the Durand agreement is binding, so is this #Balochistan

Image


Image

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2327
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby g.sarkar » 30 Aug 2016 14:27

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/balo ... 48313.html
India's new rules of engagement
By invoking Pakistan's troubled Balochistan province, Modi has signalled to Islamabad that India is willing to take the fight beyond the Line of Control.
Raj Chengappa
Offensive defence. The phrase is an oxymoron that originates from the adage, "the best defence is a good offence". The principle behind it is to be proactive rather than passive when attacked, thereby regaining the strategic advantage and cramping an opponent's ability to launch a counter-offensive. Chinese military strategist Sun Tzu was a key advocate of this idea, as was Italian philosopher and diplomat Niccolo Machiavelli. George Washington had employed it to good effect more than 200 years ago when he fought America's War of Independence. Mao Zedong, too, was a firm believer of the tactic while leading the 1949 Chinese Revolution.
....
Modi's mention of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) was par for the course, as India always regarded reclaiming Gilgit-Baltistan as the "unfinished business of Partition". But making common cause with the people of the troubled Balochistan province of Pakistan infuriated Islamabad and startled capitals across the world. The ostensible reason was the alleged human rights violations by the Pakistan Army against the protesters who were demanding azadi. But it was viewed as more than just a tit-for-tat response to Pakistan's charges of 'brutality' by the Indian security forces in the Kashmir Valley. Modi was clearly warning Pakistan that India was changing the rules of engagement from its current posture of conciliation to an offensive defence. India was now willing to get tough-and rough, if needed. The implication was that India had decided to make it a costly proposition for Pakistan to back terror groups and strikes.By upping the ante, the Indian prime minister had slapped the Pakistan Army, particularly its chief Raheel Sharif, with a direct challenge. The army had thwarted any effort by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to improve relations with India and is suspected to have engineered the attack on the Pathankot air base this January. India was indicating that it was willing to stir the pot in territories far removed from the Line of Control (LoC). In doing so, Modi was making an audacious gambit fraught with risks......
Gautam

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby arun » 30 Aug 2016 16:06

X Posted from the “Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)” thread.

Harsh V Pant in Yale Global in an article titled “Modi Throws Down Gauntlet to Pakistan and China” :

Modi Throws Down Gauntlet to Pakistan and China : Modi no longer holds back criticism on Pakistan’s troubles in Balochistan – which also stings China

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8441
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby Peregrine » 30 Aug 2016 16:55

g.sarkar wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/column/yet-another-nawaz-gimmick/20160829.htm
Yet Another Nawaz Gimmick
Last updated on: August 29, 2016 09:31 IST
Gautam

Gautam Sarkar Ji :

Nawaz Shariff has neither the guile nor the intelligence to make any decision as he is the Puppet and Raheel is the Puppeteer or one can say Nawaz is the Dummy and Raheel is the Ventriloquist! The only quality Nawaz posseses is "mein choop rahunga"
Cheers Image

Rajagopal
BRFite
Posts: 118
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 00:10
Location: Canada

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby Rajagopal » 30 Aug 2016 18:03

g.sarkar wrote:http://www.sify.com/news/modis-balochistan-riposte-irks-pakistan-lackeys-news-columns-qi3nQababijde.html
Modi's Balochistan riposte irks Pakistan lackeys
.....
Gautam


Gautam: That article by the good Major general is a mule kick in the balls of every single Pakistani in this planet. :mrgreen:
Reading that article must be eye-watering painful for everyone one of their lackeys in India. :cry:

R.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23790
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby SSridhar » 30 Aug 2016 18:37

Pakistan can no longer be viewed as separate from China. They are a single entity today as far as India is concerned and that is how we have to treat them. The events of last few years (not just Modi's two years but even UPA's last term) go to show that China changed course significantly from being just a staunch benefactor of Pakistan into converting Pakistan as its protectorate. I believe that the I-Day speech of our PM was directed more at that unified entity, more especially China, than at Pakistan. The aggressive Chinese reaction, of sending a 'warning' to India unofficially (which is the usual Chinese practice but especially now in view of the upcoming Hangzhou G-20 meeting and the next BRICS meeting at Goa) shows how rattled they are and how quickly they see a potential for trouble now. We must see a more robust response from official China after these events. In the meanwhile, ‘unofficial’ Chinese analysts and think-tanks would issue threats etc. The success of the large-scale CPEC is must-achieve for the Chinese because any upset, delay, failure, protest to that might have a snowball effect on the entire Silk Road project. Besides, China thinks that the Kashgar-hub would solve its Uyghur problem, the oil & gas pipelines through the Karakoram would add more muscle to its ambition to overcome the Malacca Dilemma, Gwadar would become a strategic PLAN base in the natural scheme of things once CPEC gets going offering China a justification to station its Navy to protect its massive investments in the Pakistani hinterland, PLA would come to occupy the entire stretch from Khunjerab Pass to Mirpur and the Pakistani Army would become a lackey of PLA as it deploys the newly raised Division to protect the CPEC. More importantly, this would completely encircle India. For its part, Pakistan might see several benefits including fixing the vexatious Balochistan problem with Chinese help and under the garb of protecting foeign investments. From being just deeply committed to Pakistan with a deep friendship (always comically described as sweeter than honey, taller than the Everest, deeper than the oceans etc) , in view of its countless services earlier to it, China is today seeing an unmistakable opportunity for lebensraum in Pakistan.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby shiv » 30 Aug 2016 19:55

China may view Pakistan as Lebensraum, but unless they are blind, they can only be deeply apprehensive. They only have the Paki army and some rhetoric supporting them. Pakistan is in deep doodoo - some report (posted above?) speaks of 38% poverty and primitive living conditions. These people will not cooperate easily.

Of course we have a duty to ensure that China's Pakistan plans are thwarted

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21860
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby chetak » 30 Aug 2016 20:43

shiv wrote:China may view Pakistan as Lebensraum, but unless they are blind, they can only be deeply apprehensive. They only have the Paki army and some rhetoric supporting them. Pakistan is in deep doodoo - some report (posted above?) speaks of 38% poverty and primitive living conditions. These people will not cooperate easily.

Of course we have a duty to ensure that China's Pakistan plans are thwarted


I also got the very strong feeling that PM Modi's speech was china specific and not paki directed.

The movements of raheel sharif is to be watched. His future will signal some specific milestone in the china pak dramatics. If he makes it to Field marshal, as he seems to be angling for, supported by the chinese undoubtedly, he will continue to run the paki army and by extension the security and foreign policies near and abroad and interestingly, a field marshal never retires.

If raheel chooses to play an unusual and active role as FM and keep the paki army chief under his thumb and run the country as he is doing now, who can object.

For china, nothing can be better and along the way there will be a coup and raheel will take over. China needs a committed paki support while keeping the pot boiling with India so as to divert and dilute India's counter thrusts. Modi has not fallen for this so far.

Something is definitely up.

The vigor with which the amrekis are courting us is not kosher. This is the deep state at play here. In the dying moments of a fading obama administration, such an important push in India is unheard of and the carrots being dangled are very big indeed.

It is usually left to the new incoming administration to set the tone and tenor of building and buttressing a viable working relationship. If it is HRC in the saddle, her rabid evangelical backers will push her to grab Modi by the throat, in a foreign policy sort of way and all that obama built will evaporate in a jiffy. This will have a severe backlash in India. HRC is liked only by menaka gandhi and burkha butt types in India. the RW tweeple will not tolerate her.

The US deep state has something big to achieve vis-s-vis china and they NEED India to do that. The chinese have virtually panicked with the CPEC and India's moves to counter that, as can be made out from the demented rantings of their tame press. This only means that china is in far greater doodoo economically than they are letting on.

If this is indeed so, war may be the only option for china to vent and quieten the local hans.

ricky_v
BRFite
Posts: 583
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby ricky_v » 30 Aug 2016 20:52

sir the chinese elite apprehension doesn't count for much for the mango han that would eventually reside in shitistan as there is already a precedent set with the han invading Africa in droves.
The conditions in africa are not rosy as well but the han commoners reside there along with killing the local industries, there should not be any reason to fear na-pakis... there is always roads and infrastructure to be built and the chinese do not care if it is a backwater country of africa or south asia.

zoverian
BRFite
Posts: 228
Joined: 16 Aug 2016 10:58

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby zoverian » 30 Aug 2016 21:00

If this is indeed so, war may be the only option for china to vent and quieten the local hans.


I do agree with you...currently china is embroiled on two fronts one side SCS and other side India . U.S in SCS is too big for them to handle alone. They may play some mischief at India border along side with Pakistan in coming years. This way on one hand they would be able to show their power and on the other hand they will be able to give a message to the west.

I guess that India under Modi already knowing this hence they are preparing for the same, hence such a hurry to fix the things (deployment of tanks on the border, signing a deal with U.S
We can expect a major skirmish on the border in short term.

P/s; this is my personal opinion.
Last edited by zoverian on 30 Aug 2016 22:03, edited 1 time in total.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21860
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby chetak » 30 Aug 2016 21:30

ricky_v wrote:sir the chinese elite apprehension doesn't count for much for the mango han that would eventually reside in shitistan as there is already a precedent set with the han invading Africa in droves.
The conditions in africa are not rosy as well but the han commoners reside there along with killing the local industries, there should not be any reason to fear na-pakis... there is always roads and infrastructure to be built and the chinese do not care if it is a backwater country of africa or south asia.


If the locals rise in china for any reason, there will be some repercussions in the party, come what may. They may demonstrate or riot because of no jobs or less food or whatever. They will certainly be be put down very very harshly, but the repercussions on the leadership will follow given the prevailing circumstances.

Various leaders are jockeying for power all the while. The chairman or whatever he calls himself, is constantly looking over his shoulder all the while.

Hans in china and the hans in africa are not the same kettle of fish and will not react in the same way.

g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2327
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby g.sarkar » 30 Aug 2016 21:35

shiv wrote:China may view Pakistan as Lebensraum, but unless they are blind, they can only be deeply apprehensive. They only have the Paki army and some rhetoric supporting them. Pakistan is in deep doodoo - some report (posted above?) speaks of 38% poverty and primitive living conditions. These people will not cooperate easily.

I have always had this vague feeling that the demise of East Pakistan happened hurriedly as the TFTA would not fight for the cause. Bangladesh in its present form was not the original plan of Mrs. Gandhi. Modi's Baluchistan declaration may just be a call to help them organize and continue an effective low level insurgency that will deny China what it wants and cost Chin and Pak mucho moolah for a long long time. Propping up Pak financially and getting benefits out of them was a proposition that Sher Khan lost. China with a much lesser spielraum due to its financial situation, can not win this game. In this game India has all the good cards. Time will tell I guess.
Gautam

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21860
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby chetak » 30 Aug 2016 22:03

g.sarkar wrote:
shiv wrote:China may view Pakistan as Lebensraum, but unless they are blind, they can only be deeply apprehensive. They only have the Paki army and some rhetoric supporting them. Pakistan is in deep doodoo - some report (posted above?) speaks of 38% poverty and primitive living conditions. These people will not cooperate easily.

I have always had this vague feeling that the demise of East Pakistan happened hurriedly as the TFTA would not fight for the cause. Bangladesh in its present form was not the original plan of Mrs. Gandhi. Modi's Baluchistan declaration may just be a call to help them organize and continue an effective low level insurgency that will deny China what it wants and cost Chin and Pak mucho moolah for a long long time. Propping up Pak financially and getting benefits out of them was a proposition that Sher Khan lost. China with a much lesser spielraum due to its financial situation, can not win this game. In this game India has all the good cards. Time will tell I guess.
Gautam


I wonder which fool was advising IG during that time.

We could have straightened out our land corridor issues in the northeast and maybe simply purchased a corridor for rail lines as well. Instead we are paying thousands of crores to keep them mollified for the same access.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby shiv » 30 Aug 2016 22:25

er could we please stick to shitistan topics?

Bheeshma
BRFite
Posts: 592
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 22:01

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby Bheeshma » 30 Aug 2016 23:20

Wasn't the Afghan army chief supposed to visit New Delhi soon? I hope GoI finally agreed to provide them with 200-300 T-55 sitting idly in storage and 200 105 mm IFG's. Since India is MTCR country Prithvi-I/II can also be exported.

SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16144
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby SwamyG » 30 Aug 2016 23:24

SSridhar wrote:Pakistan can no longer be viewed as separate from China. They are a single entity today as far as India is concerned and that is how we have to treat them. The events of last few years (not just Modi's two years but even UPA's last term) go to show that China changed course significantly from being just a staunch benefactor of Pakistan into converting Pakistan as its protectorate.

The other day, I was just thinking that w.r.t to the threads in BRF. One cannot discuss Pakistan without invoking China. Glad to know I am following BRF gurus mode of thinking.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21126
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby Prem » 31 Aug 2016 01:55

SwamyG wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Pakistan can no longer be viewed as separate from China. They are a single entity today as far as India is concerned and that is how we have to treat them. The events of last few years (not just Modi's two years but even UPA's last term) go to show that China changed course significantly from being just a staunch benefactor of Pakistan into converting Pakistan as its protectorate.

The other day, I was just thinking that w.r.t to the threads in BRF. One cannot discuss Pakistan without invoking China. Glad to know I am following BRF gurus mode of thinking.


Couple of years ago Sharifu declared that Pakistan will follow Chinese foreign policy i.e China ji will handle Paki foreign policy. Countdown for Paki Gulami started that day. China ruling Paki put them in conflict with Arab Masstarrs. Only mystery left is that of Iran,will they chart their own course or Run with Russia, Chant with China, Bhangra with Bharat or Undress with Uncle.

Peregrine
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8441
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Postby Peregrine » 31 Aug 2016 02:05

England - Cwapistan Third ODI - Nottingham

England : 444 for 3 Wkts. - A World Record!

Cwapistan : 275

England win by 169 Runs.
Cheers Image


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: madhu, vijayk and 64 guests