In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

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In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack, I believe GOI will take the following action:

1) Lot of hot air and bleating but no visible action in the foreseeable future.
81
43%
2) Heavy shelling of PA positions across LoC, but no more
28
15%
3) Significant covert strikes on select targets deep inside Pakistan.
57
30%
4) Significant covert + conventional (IBG, IN, IAF) strikes deep inside Pakistan
19
10%
5) Aar-paar ki ladai
2
1%
 
Total votes: 187

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby kedariprasad » 20 Sep 2016 11:03

My friend Madhav Ghangurde expressed following on FB

Quote

At this point in time I am reminded of two incidents.

One from history, and the other from a more recent past.

The first one is about the invasion of Afzal Khan.

He had come with a huge army to crush Shivaji Maharaj's Kingdom in the making. He committed atrocities in Shivaji's territory. He went to the extent of attacking the Tulja Bhavani temple. There was no action from Shivaji's side. People were utterly frustrated. But Shivaji was calm. He had a perfect plan in place.

Afzal Khan was eliminated at the place and time of Shivaji's choice.

The second incident is from 1971.

Sheikh Mujibur Rehman's Awami League had won a Majority in elections in Pakistan. He should have become the PM of Pakistan. The military establishment of that country, controlled by West Pakistanis wouldn't allow a legitimate claimant from East Pakistan to occupy his rightful place.
The Pakistani army unleashed a reign of terror in East Pakistan. It was the last week of March. The situation had its impact on India. The then PM of India, Indira Gandhi was under pressure to act. But she took her own time, waited for the right time and in December of that year Bangladesh was liberated.

Why not hope that we are again waiting for the opportune time?

Unquote

Only thing is that we should have Shivaji OR Indira Gandhi/ RN Kao-Shankaran doublet (Jodi). That is a BIG problem

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby prahaar » 20 Sep 2016 11:11

Shivji, are you suggesting that Modi is cautious about the phenomenon of Dubya's mission accomplished banner? I believe the expectations are higher because of what Modi has stated in the recent past. In addition, he has kept his stated commitment more often than most in the past.

The increasing heat from the grassroots cannot be ignored for long. We need a new doctrine of minimum credible punitive retaliation :-). India needs to publish a doctrine to address this breed of warfare.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby CRamS » 20 Sep 2016 11:53

Guys, not worth posting, but traitor BadKumar cannot contain his glee at the Uri attack by TSP and the embarrassment it has caused ModiJi, and suggests that far from any military response, TSP will force India to the negotiating table. India posture of no talks is unsustainable etc etc :-). Pukeworthy.

But on one of BadKumar's observations, I agree. namely, Uncle has so far not condemned outright TSP. Nor has Uncle condemned TSP for fomenting unrest in the valley. Nor has Uncle supported India's position on Baluchistan, PoK, Gilgit etc. So all the BJP spokesman claiming TSP is "internationally isolated", I am not sure I am seeing any evidence of that.

My feelings are unimportant and in fact inconsequential in the large scheme of things, but I will refrain from watching TimesNow and NewsX, the only channels with a nationalist viewpoint, but the tough talk there seems so empty that it makes you even more depressed. My own unscientific sampling of talking to Indians in US, and also offshore colleagues is that as usual, I make a fool of myself even attempting to discuss this, more often than not inviting a yawn, few off-shore colleagues said: "the attack happened in Kashmir and has not affected us", and other said: "economy will be hurt if India responds", we can't do anything because China is on the side of TSP etc etc.

I guess the only thing left to add insult to injury will be to see ModiJi make the "bold" and "courageous" move to attend SAARC in TSP and deliver a "tough" message, and give bear hugs to "good" Sheriff and Ram Madhav, DVLN rao, Sambit Patra and other BJP spokesmen will claim ModiJi has "isolated" TSP on the world stage, and driven a wedge between civilians and military in TSP.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby siddhu » 20 Sep 2016 12:16

I wish for arpar ki ladai.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby SSridhar » 20 Sep 2016 12:17

The problem here is that we are too straight but unfortunately statecraft is not for honest people or people without a stomach for retribution. What is intriguing is that almost the entire lot of our politicians is most dishonest and will go to any extreme in their normal domestic political activities. But, when it comes to statecraft, they are surprisingly timid, clueless and generally take the easy way out. So, what causes them to alter their behaviour? Is it the fact that practice of statecraft doesn't bring them votes? Is it their unfamiliarity with foreign policy, international relationship or statecraft stuff? Or, are they simply overwhelmed by events? Or, these things go above their heads? Or, do the bureaucrats mislead them? Or, do foreign powers force them to act so (and these people need personal favours from them in return)? Or, is it a combination of some or all of these?

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby habal » 20 Sep 2016 12:19

siddhu wrote:I wish for arpar ki ladai.


while you are sitting where ? usa ?

We are dealing with a leadership legacy that is entirely risk averse, they will not take the slightest chance. Without taking chances, one never wins.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Dilbu » 20 Sep 2016 12:29

This is so frustrating. :evil: :evil: :evil:

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby chetak » 20 Sep 2016 12:45

SSridhar wrote:The problem here is that we are too straight but unfortunately statecraft is not for honest people or people without a stomach for retribution. What is intriguing is that almost the entire lot of our politicians is most dishonest and will go to any extreme in their normal domestic political activities. But, when it comes to statecraft, they are surprisingly timid, clueless and generally take the easy way out. So, what causes them to alter their behaviour? Is it the fact that practice of statecraft doesn't bring them votes? Is it their unfamiliarity with foreign policy, international relationship or statecraft stuff? Or, are they simply overwhelmed by events? Or, these things go above their heads? Or, do the bureaucrats mislead them? Or, do foreign powers force them to act so (and these people need personal favours from them in return)? Or, is it a combination of some or all of these?


look at the way that two or three unwashed deshdrohi commies like lechuri and d raja have muscled their way in into the "peace process" in kashmir.

who let them steal and shift the narrative?? why did no one counter them?? Is this govt serious??

Are such people to be allowed into the corridors of power even after they have failed miserably at the hustings?? unelected or unelectable?? effing perpetual parasitic RS members.

They are only there to leak in BJP playbook to the pakis and the chinese so that our enemies can counter every move by the govt even before it is made.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby prahaar » 20 Sep 2016 12:47

Chetakji, which peace process are you referring to? I was under the impression that those worthies went to Hurriyat door on their own accord. MSM giving them spotlight is only to be expected.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Philip » 20 Sep 2016 13:07

The need is as some are advocating a strategic approach to Pak and the problem.Pak is beyond the pale.It wioll never change its attitude towards India.Therefore it has to be destroyed.As some analysts have remarked,it is engaged on several fronts militarily.The cracks in Baluch and the NW frontier are widening.It has antagonised Iran and Iran is no friend. The Baluchi freedom struggle has to be supported to the hilt,so too the Mohajirs in the Sindh.Covert ops in POK have to also begin. With Pak engaged "tous azimuth".it will find the going very hard to counter our mil superirority,but will continue to use its terror proxies.We have to start paying it back in the same coin while planning for the next war...which is inevitable.Pak will yet again launch a surprise attack against us in Kashmir and expect the intl. community to douse the flames after it has made some gains on the ground.
J&K has to be further fortified militarily with enhanced arty capability including MBRLs (SMERCH/Pinaka) so that continous shelling of Paki positions can be carried out.All Paki mil installations must be seen as targets of opportunity and only the drawing of Paki blood will suffice.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby maitya » 20 Sep 2016 13:08

Have voted for option 1 as, till some action happens, to us this is as cowardly and clueless a GoI as was the previous ones, particularly the last one - same-to-same!!

X-posted from another thread (my own post):
maitya wrote:<snip>
The way to deal with Pakistan will have to be carefully calibrated and options and variables gamed.

You mean these "options", their required "calibrations" and "gaming of the variables" have just started after the event, so we will need to wait for some time (how much time, is well, another variable, right?) to see them unfolding - right?
A very good indicator of proactive and "strategically" more nationalist government, as everyone is made to believe in the last couple of years - and such lack of foresightedness, does indicate about the "success" of those steps, if (a big if) and when they are executed.

GoI will respond, but this is never going to be what jingos want right away - instant gratification.

Yes - since you are saying so, it must be the case. :roll:
In betw, how is the current situation any different from the days post-26/11 wrt GoI purported actions. If I recall there was a collective wailing (me included, so no moral-high-ground assuming etc) about sell-out, american-pressure, log-kya-kehenge fear domination, noble-peace-prize aspirations etc etc etc.
Pray tell us why those same epithets doesn't apply anymore to this current GoI.
Or is it that BRF is well ahead of the curve that we have so fondly started believing in, that precludes us from doing so?

Why do people forget the 400% increase in the whinefest on Paki TV channels in just 2 years?

Convenient amnesia is it?
These whine-fest was there even before last 2 years as well - there used to be a series of "towels" thread (and you used to be an enthusiastic contributor) then, you may want to refer to it (in the archives).

The steps that were taken after Pathankot, have resulted in the PM making announcements on Aug 15. Groundwork was set in motion then.
For example, AIR stations were upgraded, plans made for baloch language transmissions etc, initial contacts made with regional players etc.
I don't think this GoI was sleeping after Pathankot.

It was actually - because apart from dosa-lobbing and joint-probe dramabazi, exactly in the template of the previous GoI regime's "action" post 26/11 and other such "incidents".

But reflex action right before the UNGA will not happen.
This is Pakistan lashing out in terror & desperation because they are beginning to see a certain pattern emerging and a certain writing on the wall.

Again assertion - a counter assertion can be is that the pathetic pigs have successfully gamed the "only-talk-but-no-action" operating-mode of this GoI and is taking the full advantage of pulling the chaddi to the ankles via these forums.

There will be more terror strikes on India now to try and provoke a response and paki attempts to pre-empt things. Their agents amongst the criminals, politicians and media are going to get a lot of employment in india too.

Yes quite true - but that has always been the case, so what's so special about this GoI.
Wrt "employment opportunities" - well, similarly it seems there is already (and there will be much more for sure) a lot of employment opportunities for those "spinners" (trying to spin grand-strategic-theories to obfuscate clueless-and-rank-cowardliness), "headline management" wallahs and "joiners" (desperately trying to "join" random accidents or incidents to some grand action by GoI - there's already an attempt in this very thread).

I say, just watch things unfold

Yes - we will see, but not with the coloured/biased specs that you (and many others) have decided to put on.
After all there's a long list of Aar-par-ki-ladai to 11-heads-on-a-petard to muh-tod-jawab etc needs accounting for.

Till then, to us this is as cowardly and clueless a GoI as was the previous ones, particularly the last one - same-to-same!!

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby shiv » 20 Sep 2016 14:38

siddhu wrote:I wish for arpar ki ladai.

Actually aarpaar ki ladai is exactly what we need, not hitting camps or some temporary balm. The future can only mean one big war because India is not going to be provoked into small skirmishes.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Dilbu » 20 Sep 2016 14:56

India loves PM Modi, but not the way he is handling China, Pakistan
Image
Even as India goes gaga over a new Pew Research Center report reaffirming the nation's continuing love affair with PM Narendra Modi, a number of emerging between-the-lines trends have caught the eye of political pundits and policy watchers. Although a huge majority of Indians still have a favourable opinion on Modi, many are critical of the glitches and inconsistencies in his policy towards China and Pakistan.

The report confirms the general anti-China bias prevalent in India, with less than a third of Indians having good things to say about that country. It shows India generally has a very low regard for its main Asian rival.

Supporters of Modi and BJP are more worried about China than about the Congress party and the Gandhis, reveals the report. Almost half of India views China's rise as a huge threat to its prospects.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Gagan » 20 Sep 2016 15:00

Maitya
That is a very incoherent ramble by you.
Will reply to it of course
Will encourage u to edit parts of it that I construe as a personal attack

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Deans » 20 Sep 2016 15:01

I voted for 1, though I'm hoping for option 2.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Amoghvarsha » 20 Sep 2016 15:23

Firing starts at LOC.Why do i feel that this is the IA this time.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Sicanta » 20 Sep 2016 15:30

Amoghvarsha wrote:Firing starts at LOC.Why do i feel that this is the IA this time.


News agencies say that it is napaks.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby durvasa » 20 Sep 2016 15:42

It's humiliating to see Pakistani guffawing at Indian discomfort. My friend's article

NEW DELHI: Pakistan is enjoying India's pain after Uri attack and is making fun of us. Pakistanis are using every platform - TV, Newspapers, UN, Twitter and Facebook, to tell us this.


http://mahapunjab.com/pakistan-mocking- ... di-tested/

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Gagan » 20 Sep 2016 15:53

Since India's hand is being forced, we must cause loss of face to Pakistan.
Use attack helos, MBRLs & arty liberally.
Push Pakis back by 20 kms, move in and take back our land

UNGA jaye bhaad mein, was worried about this...

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Amoghvarsha » 20 Sep 2016 15:54

Sicanta wrote:
Amoghvarsha wrote:Firing starts at LOC.Why do i feel that this is the IA this time.


News agencies say that it is napaks.


You expect us to say we started it.We will say we retaliated.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Amoghvarsha » 20 Sep 2016 15:55

Gagan wrote:Since India's hand is being forced, we must cause loss of face to Pakistan.
Use attack helos, MBRLs & arty liberally.
Push Pakis back by 20 kms, move in and take back our land

UNGA jaye bhaad mein, was worried about this...


Dont know about helos par kam se kam MRBL ka to banta hai.

Btw what do you want?Pinaka or Smerch?

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Gagan » 20 Sep 2016 15:59

Both onlee
My jingo dil wanted a B'mos strike on aabpara to start the festivities

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Gagan » 20 Sep 2016 16:03

But I want pakistan's n capabilities to be severely degraded. They have Pu reprocessing plants, new centrifuge halls being built, mil communications and other sites. POF wah, AWC Kamra, Mangla, Kharian, Jhelum to be laid to dust

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Sicanta » 20 Sep 2016 16:06

Firstpost - Action against Pak-based terrorists only after examining issues: Rijiju

Any action against terrorists based in Pakistan will be taken only after examining all relevant issues, Union Minister Kiren Rijiju said.

"Action will be taken after due consideration. Action is not taken after making announcements," he told reporters.

The Minister of State for Home made the remarks when he was asked whether the government was planning to carry out a strike against terrorists camps based in Pakistan.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Gagan » 20 Sep 2016 16:14

^^^
Above suggests that overt action was to take a backseat, and covert and other responses were planned

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Shanmukh » 20 Sep 2016 16:59

A question for the knowledgeable folks here in BRF - can we take Skardu or Domel or Astore in a quick strike (not more than 2 weeks, say) without any losses elsewhere on our border? It is going to be extremely hard for the Pakistanis to reach for the nuclear button for a conflict in PoJK.

Pakistan fears loss of land more than anything else. That's exactly what we must target, keeping the conflict sub-nuclear.
Last edited by Shanmukh on 20 Sep 2016 17:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Gagan » 20 Sep 2016 17:02

Skardu is the single point that controls 80% of their siachen and north POK ops

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Shanmukh » 20 Sep 2016 17:04

Gagan wrote:Skardu is the single point that controls 80% of their siachen and north POK ops


Okay, so how long would it take India to take Skardu? Aren't we on the high ground & in an advantage in that sector?

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Rampy » 20 Sep 2016 17:09

why no economic and diplomatic response included? Why is that action is always with guns? If we are able to walk out of water treaty or isolate/declare pak as terror support state(preferred) we have won a bigger war. Having a strike can be salt on nicely cooked pork meat

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby manjgu » 20 Sep 2016 17:12

TOI reporting 8 terrorist killed in URI.. ( is it another word for Pak army)

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Rampy » 20 Sep 2016 17:13



what surprises me is all this survey was done within days of Uri? Why do i smell we are being forced to take action and change the narrative that MAD is working on?

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby shiv » 20 Sep 2016 17:18

Rampy wrote:what surprises me is all this survey was done within days of Uri? Why do i smell we are being forced to take action and change the narrative that MAD is working on?

+1 This is the sort of scepticism that we need about all news...

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby shiv » 20 Sep 2016 17:19

Speaking of news:
https://twitter.com/kanimozhi/status/778168476695420928

Jamaaat ud Dawa is not on India's terror org list?

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Abhibhushan » 20 Sep 2016 17:19

Skardu is the single point that controls 80% of their siachen and north POK ops


An interesting point from history: At the moment of cease fire in 1949, Skardu Fort was being held by the Indian army, albeit the troops in the fort were surrounded by the naPakis. We should have retained control over the fort by robust diplomacy. Alas we did not.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Gagan » 20 Sep 2016 17:29

There was a lot of back and forth between kargil town and skardu then. At one point the pakis were in Kargil and wanting to go to leh, but were pushed back.
Gen Thimaiyya brought in Tanks over the zoji la and settled things.
India should have pushed on to gilgit town
Last edited by Gagan on 20 Sep 2016 17:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby KJo » 20 Sep 2016 17:29

I don't think we should go to war. We should declare them a terrorist nation and impose a cost. Stop/reduce the water. Stop trade. Actively isolate them.
War will mean a cost to us also and other countries will get involved.

We should work to dividing the country into several parts. Only Pakjab is the problem, not Sindh, B'tan or Pakhtunistan. I am sure we can work with these states.
Last edited by KJo on 20 Sep 2016 19:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Gagan » 20 Sep 2016 17:33

My thoughts exactly,
There will be a aar paar ki ladai some day, but for that pakistan has to be further weakened, the 3 provinces have to be made ready.

But a solid thappad must be administered now.

And then mission balochistan, sindhudesh etc must be pursued even more vigourously

Meanwhile will love to hear what PM has to say at the UNGA

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Shanmukh » 20 Sep 2016 18:09

There is a deeper question, the elephant in the room, that we are all ignoring. Why do we believe that India even wants to respond to any terrorist attack at all? Is there any evidence of India wanting to do anything other than manage the fallout of the attacks with a lot of steam & hot air? This is not about Modi or anyone else. This is about the basic manifestation of the nature of the Indian state.

Let's look at it from the elite point of view. From their PoV, these are just minor irritations. Who really cares if a bunch of Pakistani Jihadis butcher a few soldiers or civilians? The effect on business sentiment is minimal. They will just shrug & go about their business, doing their damnedest to ensure that business climate is not affected. From this perspective, doing nothing in response to Pakistani attacks is the most profitable. Of course, politicians will need to thump their chests a bit, but no one cares about that either. Whether Modi comes or Sonia comes, the Indian state's nature remains the same. Why don't we just agree that non-response is our response, because we have no intention of ever responding? Inaction is action, silence speech.

What India is basically saying to Pakistan is this: `We don't care if you kill hundreds or even thousands of bakras. Our elites and bizmen are safe and our profits intact. We don't care about the rest. In exchange for you not killing anyone important (how many important people have been killed in Pakistani terrorism from 1990?), we will not retaliate. This way, both of us have what we want. You can embellish your credentials as defenders of Islam & Jihadis & what have you with the bunch of bakras we hand over to you to slaughter & while our profits & lives are safe. A few army men are expendable.'

Isn't this a win-win bargain for both sides?

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby Chandragupta » 20 Sep 2016 18:19

No, historically, non-action against Pakistan has been because of vote bank calculations in India. Even in 1971, Indian ulema supported West Pakistan and lamented the break-up & consequent creation of Bangladesh. Even today, Sharad Pawar brings in Secularism into the debate over the Uri attacks. Indian politicians are not stupid, they see Pakistan for what it truly is - an extension of Indian Muslims.

As to why Modi is not responding, there are several reasons many of which have been discussed in other threads so I'll refrain from reproducing here.

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Re: In response to the Uri Terrorist Attack...

Postby shiv » 20 Sep 2016 19:14

Chandragupta wrote:
As to why Modi is not responding, there are several reasons many of which have been discussed in other threads so I'll refrain from reproducing here.

My take on this is right here on this thread - the post linked below and a couple of others
viewtopic.php?p=2046634#p2046634


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