South India River Water Issues/Disputes

[tsarkar]

we need to understand agricultural activity was taxed by them unlike our nation today

who didn't tax agriculture? Mughals taxed. Marathas taxed. Zamindars were basically tax collectors. By unlike, do you mean farmers are exempt from paying income tax today? Point is, unlike Mughals or Marathas or Zamindars, they at least invested in infrastructure & irrigation

The famous Bengal famine is the result of usurious rates of tax on farm produce.

which one? 1943? 1770?

[putnanja]

Once any benefit is given, its very hard to take it away, as irrespective of cost, opposition parties would cry hoarse. Reservations for SC/STs was supposed to be for 10 years, now almost all states have 50% reservations of SC/ST/OBCs. Tax on agriculture is exempt, but no one wants to bell that cat because it can affect quite a few rural seats. Same for Common Civil Code, Article 370, etc. And if anything affects farmers, dalits, minorities, there is no way any benefit will be taken back. Only the middle class related items can be overtaxed, and no one will give a damn

[SwamyG]

Piddly posts? Haa haa. Looks like pushed some raw nerves there. What gless is there to hide? Do states fighting in the court, and politicians of both states using emotions to garner votes and stabilize their political agendas gives someone happiness? Lakhs if not crores of rupees going up the flames, enimity increasing between people, and you think I enjoy? Wow, you do have a rather low opinion on a fellow BRFite.

Retained Chennai? Haaa haa, still smitting are we. Then you have no locus standi to comment on my Tirupati comment. There is a general looking down upon tamilians and their pride in BRF and elsewhere, and one cannot be blamed to point out that the initial Dravidian moment had non-Tamils in its league. The only support that I extended to Seeman was that he has the right to pick the cause he is interested in and that you or I cannot make him question EVR or others that you or anyone else wants. If he wants to pick Srilankan Tamil issues, then so be it.

[Yagnasri]

@Tsarkar -

Most of the Hindu kings did provide irrigation facilities, but taxed them only as per the norms which is 1/6th. Maratas took 1/4th but most of the time they were fighting war with Muslim rulers. Even in Nizam period, these facilities were maintained. I am not sure of Mughals. The extent of taxation on agriculture during British period was quite heavy.

[nandakumar]

tsarkar
It was the 1943 famine. The British confiscated 60% of the produce. Amartya Sen makes the point in his book (forget the title) in the year 1943 the output was actually higher than the earlier years yet people died of starvation. Part of the problem was that Japan overan Burma by 1941 putting an end to rice supllies into India. Not that it would have mattered to the poor pesant cultivators. They anyway didn't have money to buy anything. After the British the jothedars confiscated a big chunk of what remained.

[Lilo]

Piddly posts? Haa haa. Looks like pushed some raw nerves there. What gless is there to hide? Do states fighting in the court, and politicians of both states using emotions to garner votes and stabilize their political agendas gives someone happiness? Lakhs if not crores of rupees going up the flames, enimity increasing between people, and you think I enjoy? Wow, you do have a rather low opinion on a fellow BRFite.

Retained Chennai? Haaa haa, still smitting are we. Then you have no locus standi to comment on my Tirupati comment. There is a general looking down upon tamilians and their pride in BRF and elsewhere, and one cannot be blamed to point out that the initial Dravidian moment had non-Tamils in its league. The only support that I extended to Seeman was that he has the right to pick the cause he is interested in and that you or I cannot make him question EVR or others that you or anyone else wants. If he wants to pick Srilankan Tamil issues, then so be it.

One or two line posts adding nothing new with minimum of 1 roftl emoticons(may go upto 3) are indeed piddly-trifling-trivial,you can choose the word. Only reason those posts invited a response is because you managed to insert a holier than thou claim in one such piddly posts of yours.

There is a general looking down upon tamilians and their pride in BRF and elsewhere,

No, but i cant help but look down on your attempt to bring in Tamil pride when you have been called out for producing a holier than thou platitude going like : "deep seated biases cannot be hid & hate comes out".
Btw why do you put rolling on the floor laughing emoticon on issues purportedly concerning tamil pride ...hain ji?
Is it also tamil pride which prompted you to raise a claim on Tirupati - with 3 rolling on the floor emoticons in a piddly single line post ?

..Wow, you do have a rather low opinion on a fellow BRFite.

No.Actually i have a high opinion on your capacity to use convoluted logic to claim apple juice from oranges.

Case in point:First you make a claim on tirupati ,then in my poser to you i allude the 60 year old historical circumstances leading to division, i.e when it was asked that chennai be given a status of common shared capital (owing to its border location & with 40% telugu population).The arbitrating authority rejected the claim and gave chennai completely to TN.Finis.Thats it.
You dont see any one raising claims here or in andhra for chennai or posturing as if its been usurped from us.
Similarly i dont see any common tamil people doing any claims or posturing for tirupati .
Yet you raised a claim for tirupati on brf while penning holier than thou platitudes here, for which you have been called out & you retort claiming that the questioner has lost his locus standi because the questioner mentioned the "unmentionable" historical fact that TN retained chennai in his poser of "why are you claiming tirupati" ?

I didnt want to go into an apples vs oranges reply, as i feel we may have a lemon here .And no this lemon of an argument for tirupati wont cut it , you can try it with vijayakant,vaiko,seeman or some other more tamizh than tamizh(mttt) posers like them.

[vina]

Case in point:First you make a claim on tirupati ,then in my poser to you i allude the 60 year old historical circumstances leading to division, i.e when it was asked that chennai be given a status of common shared capital (owing to its border location & with 40% telugu population).The arbitrating authority rejected the claim and gave chennai completely to TN

What !! Do you claim that you dont want to be ruled by the Boor-o-crats at Fort St George like in the old days ?
Amma sends you love of course. So , South Canara, Malabar, Kodagu, and Coastal Andhra and Rayalseema come back to the fold. All problems solved, including Kaveri , under Amma's TLC (Tender Loving Care).

[Javee]

The only way to stop states from usurping rivers because it originates with in their state is by making the origin point as an union territory.

#I will duck and retreat to a dark area after this ied

[kvraghav]

Or rather merge the entire river belt to the originating state?

[Kashi]

Or rather merge the entire river belt to the originating state?

Can you imagine the behemoth that would be Uttarakhand, U.P., Bihar and Bengal?

Or Uttarakhand, Haryana, Delhi, U.P., Bihar and Bengal?

[kvraghav]

But i meant only the basin of the river, not the entire state but anyways, even if the point of origin is made a UT, the UT will fight with the other state and SC and other things will still be the same.

[Karan M]

From chetak, chandrasekaran, vina & yagnasri's post above , it looks as if the violence against TN & Tamils properties deserve this as TN seems to have exploited Cauvery & Karnataka from time immemorial. Every one has given suggestions for TN - how to use water efficiently, how to extract ground water, which crop to plant, which party to vote. TN people in Karnataka few of them whom I have spoke to are in morbid fear even to speak in Tamil in a public place. I'm sure more Tamil people will leave bangalore/ Karnataka in the future many being born & brought up in Karnataka. Every party be it sadananda gowda or siddhu or vattal Nagaraj all have squarely blamed TN for the current problem when clearly this was from the apex court of the country. Ascribing motive to SC judge ( not that they are angels) & KJo asking to ignore SC all makes federalism a joke. Sorry for a bad rant - saying "sorry " is a powerful weapon which is seldom used now.

Make NO MISTAKE. What happened on Monday was an orchestrated political violence. This time it was organised under a Congress govt and the left/liberal/secular media are very silent on it and not calling it out for what it is.. There are multiple theories floating around who organised it, which faction and why, and was there a tacit understanding between the protestors and then the entire thing went out of control and blew up in their faces. This has shades of the riots that were organised in Hyderabad in the old days to get rid of Channa Reddy as the CM

This is NOT an ethnic fight between Kannada speakers and Tamil speakers. It an organised political riot, who called up the usual Rent-a-Hoodlum groups and the low level thugs,to target the property of a particular set of people. The state failed miserably in it's duty to protect the property of all the citizens , and indeed might have been complicit.

You should hold the feet of the Congress , especially the of TN Congress guys , and also of that Old Coot, who is now making "Congress like noises" and calling for central "mediation", to the fire, for being complicit and acqueiscing to it.

So coming to saying "Sorry" . Who is responsible for it ? Not my neighbours, not my friends, not spouses and their extended family of people whom my relatives and friends married , not people whom I do business with. So who ? Should it be the Govt of KA ? Should it be the ruling party for their failure and possible complicity ?

And oh, for the DK/Veeramani /Peryiar Whatever group that went after their "Beef eating and Thali removal" event and then went up and cut the sacred threads and bashed up a couple of people who were visibly Brahmins, which included an 80 year old man and a 12 year old child (such heroic figures, these goons) . So who should say sorry to them ? The TN Govt, the ruling party, the ordinary people of TN ?

And pray, how much jail time did those goons get (including the post IITM Ambedkar Periyar event goons) . Are they out on bail ? Are they the same repeat offenders who bashed up Woodlands ? Will they get prosecuted on provisions on on anti hate laws / national security laws that make promoting enmity against a set of people a crime ?

I think you are confused between the Kaveri dispute (which should be settled in court and the verdict accepted) , the politicking and jockeying around that historically in the Mandya belt (by Congress and JD S and their factions) , the goons for hire and the hate mongers (TN historically unfortunately was the master here, the KA guys are rather ingenues ) , and the ordinary people of KA and TN irrespective of ethnicity.

+100.

Completely silly to be blaming ordinary Kannadiga's and coming up with complex explanations of Ka-Tn civil war etc, when all that occurred is specific hoodlums engaged in targeted violence (which too was contained) & the MSM played it up for vested reasons. In a couple of days the city is back to wherever it was (snagged traffic & pollution) as versus the organized caterwauls of it being broken, having its reputation etc in tatters.
As regards cosmpolitanism, unfortunately - no comparison between Chennai & Blr - and neither is really a representation of their "deeper state" anyhow. Blr is anyday easier for outsiders to manage in, with minimal language issues. But both in Ka & Tn, the deeper you go, the harder it gets for true blue naarthies or whosoever to manage without picking up a smattering of the local lingo and being adept at making-do. Given the state of affairs up north, both states are acting like support systems for other systems, and in both places (though i suspect Ka has it worse), politicians are literally sucking the prime cities dry and exploiting them with minimal investment in actually making their prime cities livable for their massive growth.

[Javee]

But i meant only the basin of the river, not the entire state but anyways, even if the point of origin is made a UT, the UT will fight with the other state and SC and other things will still be the same.

Sure why not

Cauvery river's basin covers four states and Union Territories, as follows: Tamil Nadu, 43,856 square kilometres (16,933 sq mi); Karnataka, 34,273 square kilometres (13,233 sq mi); Kerala, 2,866 square kilometres (1,107 sq mi), and Puducherry, 160 square kilometres (62 sq mi)

[kvraghav]

Ya and it's as much as a ROFL as making the origin as UT and as as you see, the entire area plus any one of those states is still less than UP

[Javee]

It's better to make UT or nationalize it to counter idiots upstream who claim ownership of the river as their birthright.

[putnanja]

It's better to make UT or nationalize it to counter idiots upstream who claim ownership of the river as their birthright.

Same can be said about those downstream who claim ownership and want all water to flow to them with no one using it upstream.

This sort of name calling without understanding the shortage will just go around in circles. I had posted the availability figures earlier. At 87ft storage as of date, water is at the lowest since 2000. It would be better for both states to sit down, discuss shortage and ways to share available water equally, instead of both claiming they need everything. There is still NE monsoons due for TN

[TKiran]

Once water is released, it has to flow from Mysore to mettur dam the whole place is in Karnataka, they can also use the water for irrigation purpose.

Once it reaches the mettur dam which is in Tamilnadu, the upper riparian State doesn't have any right to question how the lower riparian State utilizes the water whether they use it for drinking or for irrigation or for cleaning their behinds.

Supreme Court has asked to release the water from KRS, it didn't say Karnataka shouldn't use the water while in transit to Tamilnadu.

[SaiK]

will both KA and TN accept a 50:50 solution?

[Javee]

This sort of name calling without understanding the shortage will just go around in circles. I had posted the availability figures earlier. At 87ft storage as of date, water is at the lowest since 2000. It would be better for both states to sit down, discuss shortage and ways to share available water equally, instead of both claiming they need everything. There is still NE monsoons due for TN

I'm from Central TN where Cauvery has been a life line in terms of drinking water and agriculture. We have stopped growing paddy 10 years back and moved to Coconut farming. 4 years back we lost 10's of trees because of drought/lack of water for irrigation from the river. So I do understand the shortage than most of you guys here do.

Upstream or downstream, if some one claims ownership for an interstate river, then it is stupid, it is not name calling. Much water has flown through Cauvery to sit down and discuss, we have seen this time and again when ever the monsoon fails and the distress water sharing is supposed to be in place. There is an acute need to constitute an impartial River management board that has binding legal authority over the management of the river as mentioned by Cauvery river water tribunal. Whether TN gets NE monsoon is immaterial for this discussion.

[Javee]

will both KA and TN accept a 50:50 solution?

Solution is already there, the spineless governments at the center and state just don't want to implement the rule of law.

[putnanja]

Once water is released, it has to flow from Mysore to mettur dam the whole place is in Karnataka, they can also use the water for irrigation purpose.

Once it reaches the mettur dam which is in Tamilnadu, the upper riparian State doesn't have any right to question how the lower riparian State utilizes the water whether they use it for drinking or for irrigation or for cleaning their behinds.

Supreme Court has asked to release the water from KRS, it didn't say Karnataka shouldn't use the water while in transit to Tamilnadu.

No, thats not how it works. Water is measured at Biligundlu in TN/KA border by central water resources ministry. So when SC ordered Karnataka to release 15000 cusecs per day, its measured at Biligundlu. There are no other diversions between KRS and Mettur. There are irrigation canals from KRS dam. And to account for evaporation and other reasons, Karnataka had to release around 18000 cusecs per day.

For releasing water to irrigation canals at KRS, TN complained that Karnataka was using its water calling it illegal diversion. So even TN is claiming first right on the water for itself too.

[TKiran]

No, thats not how it works. Water is measured at Biligundlu in TN/KA border by central water resources ministry. So when SC ordered Karnataka to release 15000 cusecs per day, its measured at Biligundlu. There are no other diversions between KRS and Mettur. There are irrigation canals from KRS dam. And to account for evaporation and other reasons, Karnataka had to release around 18000 cusecs per day.

For releasing water to irrigation canals at KRS, TN complained that Karnataka was using its water calling it illegal diversion. So even TN is claiming first right on the water for itself too.

The highlighted statements are contradictory. If there is no diversion possible then what difference does it make if water is stored in KRS or in Mettur dam? But if the water could be diverted to irrigation canals, then divert the water whatever you are allotted and rest you send it to mettur, what is the use of storing water in KRS when water is required to be sent to mettur dam? The allocation of water happened only after all the arguments were heard from both the sides. Or is Karnataka really guilty of using up all its share and doesn't want to send the allocated water to Tamilnadu?

[nandakumar]

By definition, irrigation channels have to be upstream of the dam. It doesn't make sense to build the channel downstream as the natural gradient of the land will take the water along the river's natural course rather than along the channels by its side. If I was Karnataka Government I wouldn't waste money building a channel betwee KRS and Mettur Dam when bulk of the water would flow down to Mettur. But if Karnataka had built check dams along the way then it is a different matter.

[prasannasimha]

The canals tapping Kaveri are before KRS not after. The water inflow is measured at Biligundlu

[csubash]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 436285.cms

It's disappointing to see an elected government refusing to implement the apex court's judgement. Few friends who live in Hosur & Bangalore tell the misery of the TN labourers, daily wage earners, small businesses who have been rendered jobless & live in fear for their life & property. KN can keep all the water it wants but certainly the politicians of KN have made the Tamils their mortal enemy who need to be thrown out of KN & B'lore. I am sure this will elicit comments - how bad TN is, the dravidian parties, Tamils having problem with all people surrounding them, TN parties anti-brahmanical stand, on & on ......Agree TN has it's fair share numb heads but this time KN's politicians ( not sure whether this is true for Kannadigas as well) have taken parochialism to an entirely new level.

[putnanja]

The water level is down in KRS and might impact Bangalore supply too...

Dry days loom over city as water level in KRS down 20%

[Sachin]

Can any one explain the current formula being used for "water sharing"? I mean how are the percentages for water allocation decided? Is it as simple as measuring the water level at KRS every day (or every week), and then calculating the share for that day (or week) and releasing the water? Or is it based on some other logic by which water gets released month on month?

The water level is down in KRS and might impact Bangalore supply too...

If the water levels are down, that can be easily proven. I mean this is some thing which is easily measurable and soon becomes an undeniable fact. So when a commission or court decides that the water has to be let go, this fact can be used to prove that practically it is not possible to do so now. So it makes me wonder, why KA government pleaders were not able to prove the practical difficulties in releasing water? We cannot release some thing which is not there in the first place.

Or is it that there is a standing agreement that TN should get x amount of water during say a three months cycle (eg: Oct-Dec). KRS had higher levels of water in the previous months. TN did not come asking for it at that time. So KA government used the water for its own purposes (including irrigation or supplying cities like Bangalore). The water levels came down. The rain falls also dropped so there was no way the reservoir got replenished with water. And then TN also came asking for its share of water. By then the water had already flown (to the fields in KA and to the pipe lines at Bangalore). TN would then naturally accuse KA of diverting its share of water, and then denying TN that share when it came asking for it. KA in this case would also find it tough convincing the courts that it did the right thing by diverting the water (which was to be shared with TN as per the agreement).

[GShankar]

Can any one explain the current formula being used for "water sharing"? I mean how are the percentages for water allocation decided? Is it as simple as measuring the water level at KRS every day (or every week), and then calculating the share for that day (or week) and releasing the water? Or is it based on some other logic by which water gets released month on month?

In short, KA should release 192 TMC annually for TN. And per a previous response, the water in measured in Billigundlu, KA.

[Aditya_V]

I keep hearing this male Elephant Swimming in the Machanabele resovoir, just 45Km west of Bengaluru- is there now in this distress that its waters can used for Drinking water in Bengaluru?

[Sachin]

In short, KA should release 192 TMC annually for TN. And per a previous response, the water in measured in Billigundlu, KA.

Thanks . So how is this release of 192 TMC done:-
1. Is it spread across 12 months? (16 TMC every month)
2. Or is it that TN based on the crop pattern comes asking for it, and then KA starts releasing the water? TN can mess up things here if one fine morning it asks KA to release its share of water for the past n number of months. KA's plans then would go hay-wire.
3. What happens when there is a drought situation where this 192 TMC cannot be released? Is there a formula/arrangement by which the allocation %-age can be changed?
4. Also what would happen if KA did consume its share completely (month on month), hoping that there would be a good monsoon, which would fill up the reservoir again.And then the allocation for TN can be done easily? This is a big risk, as if the monsoon fails KA would not have any water to give to any one.

[GShankar]

@Sachin
I think the verdict is a bit complicated. Quick googling says there is probably no monthly schedule for a year and there are some limit changes for when there is good rain, average rain and bad rain. Some one more knowledgeable can answer this more accurately. Either way, the calculation of how much and release of water could be easily handled by the govt. staff without any political intrusion.

Ideally (and especially), all these dams should be manned by central govt. staff and not state government for a quick reduction of tensions across the board. It is possible this is a bad idea for many other reasons that I am not thinking about..

My take on this issue:

From what I know, "with or without water shortage on a yearly basis", KA feels it is a bad deal. When I mean KA, I mean a lot of ppl (farmers, common man, labours, middle class, intellects, rich included). Thus when KA/Kannada extremist politicians try to exploit the issue, there is soft corner for the claim that it is a bad deal and everyone's heart (, stomach, etc.) does not burn when Tamil ppl (innocent and otherwise) are harmed in KA for this purpose. The situation reverses the trend in TN by the same kind of groups over there.

I wish everyone in KA (and elsewhere) get themselves to agree in their hearts that until court order is reversed/overridden/updated, the order should be respected for normalcy to prevail. Anyone who needs to change this agreement is welcome to take the legal discourse. TN could do a lot of things to not expect this much water from KA but that is off-topic (I think) because TN by law (or something like that) was given that 192 TMC.

And you see, ever since CRPF is deployed, there are either no riots or very sporadic. However with KA police, "look the other side" policy is followed.

"Unity in Diversity" / "Mosaic of Cultures" crap has been going on for a long time without uniting people of the land. "Breaking India" just gets easier and easier with every such instance.

-------------------------
Disclosure - I am Tamil. Family is settled in Bangalore in 2000. Extended family already in Bangalore since 80s. And currently I live in US - East coast

Fun Facts - My uncle (chittappa) operates a furniture manufacturing factory near Mysore road. His wisdom - Give the local guys decent money for the Habbas (Gowri-Ganapathy, etc.) and they will make sure our factory is not harmed. If you did not, they will openly threaten arson during the next time (riots happen).

[arshyam]

In short, KA should release 192 TMC annually for TN. And per a previous response, the water in measured in Billigundlu, KA.

Thanks . So how is this release of 192 TMC done:-
1. Is it spread across 12 months? (16 TMC every month)
2. Or is it that TN based on the crop pattern comes asking for it, and then KA starts releasing the water? TN can mess up things here if one fine morning it asks KA to release its share of water for the past n number of months. KA's plans then would go hay-wire.
3. What happens when there is a drought situation where this 192 TMC cannot be released? Is there a formula/arrangement by which the allocation %-age can be changed?
4. Also what would happen if KA did consume its share completely (month on month), hoping that there would be a good monsoon, which would fill up the reservoir again.And then the allocation for TN can be done easily? This is a big risk, as if the monsoon fails KA would not have any water to give to any one.

Sachin saar, this article had been posted earlier on this thread, and is a good read. Let me quote some excerpts relevant to your questions:

Who Should Karnataka Blame in the Cauvery Dispute? History Has Some Answers - Girish Nikam, The Wire

After years of calculations by experts and arguments by lawyers before the tribunal, it decided that at 50% dependability (of the monsoon), 740 TMC ft. of water would be available annually.

The next mandate before the tribunal was how best to divide this 740 TMC ft. between the four states annually. Again, after years of argument and counter argument, and expert opinion, it allocated 419 TMC ft. to Tamil Nadu, 270 TMC ft. to Karnataka, 30 TMC ft. to Kerala and 7 TMC ft. to Pondicherry and left 14 TMC ft. for environmental purposes. It also directed Karnataka, which is the upper riparian state (where the river originates), to ensure that 192 TMC ft. is given to Tamil Nadu annually and fixed a monthly quota to be given.

Confusion must be cleared

This is where all the confusion is created and must be cleared. First of all we need to know how and from where this 740 TMC ft. is generated. How do we arrive at that figure? In simple terms, 270 TMC ft. which Karnataka is allocated plus 192 TMC ft. which it has to ensure to Tamil Nadu, comes to 462 TMC ft. This is the quantum of water, which, according to the tribunal, is the yield from the river within Karnataka annually. So out of 462 TMC ft. Karnataka has to give 192 TMC ft to Tamil Nadu.

While Tamil Nadu gets this 192 TMC ft. from Karnataka, how it manages to use 419 TMC ft. is the next puzzle. The simple answer is 419 minus 192 – which is 227 TMC ft. – is what Tamil Nadu generates from its own catchment areas within the state. If Karnataka and Tamil Nadu’s yield comes to 689 TMC ft (462+227), Kerala contributes 51 TMC ft., of which it keeps 30 while 21 TMC ft is reserved for Puducherry (7) and environmental purposes (14).

The sum and substance of it all is that while Karnataka contributes 462 TMC ft. it is allowed to use 270 TMC ft., Tamil Nadu which contributes 227 TMC ft. gets 419 TMC ft. and Kerala which contributes 51 TMC ft. is allowed to use 30 TMC ft.

Take for instance one of the major objections of Karnataka to the final award, which even the state’s legal and technical teams have endorsed. That is about the monthly allocation made, especially in the first four months of the water year, June to September, by the tribunal. The allocations are June 10 TMC ft, July 34 TMC ft, August 50 TMC ft and September 40 TMC ft. These allocations are seen to be worrisome, as Karnataka, which is served to a large extent only by the south west monsoons, which start in June, may find itself in a quandary if the rains are not normal or fail in any year.

The problem this year was, KA didn't release any water due to shortage. And this impacted the regular June 12 release from Mettur to enable the kuruvai crop since it was close to dead storage (80 ft vs. 72 dead, IIRC). Mettur was able to release water only last week. A Hindu report from May: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/t ... 664717.ece

[csubash]

http://hydro.imd.gov.in/hydrometweb/(S(50ij2w55apmmoc55og4umkrs))/PdfReportPage.aspx?ImgUrl=PRODUCTS\Rainfall_Statistics\Cumulative\District_RF_Distribution\DISTRICT_RAINFALL_DISTRIBUTION_COUNTRY_INDIA_c.PDF

http://hydro.imd.gov.in/hydrometweb/(S(fvavr4f2wekadc2xeh115pra))/PdfReportPage.aspx?ImgUrl=PRODUCTS\Rainfall_Statistics\Cumulative\Subdivision_RF_Distribution\SUBDIVISION_RAINFALL_DISTRIBUTION_COUNTRY_INDIA_cd.PDF

The above are links to this years rainfall districtwise & subdivisionwise. TN's rainfall so far from onset of monsoon is not much different from KN. Districtwise pay attention to Mysuru, Mandya, Kodagu & Bangalore & Thanjavur, Thiruvarur, Thiruchirapalli, Karur & Salem. KN has started to release water only late in the monsoon. Even if you have to adjust for deficit rain the proportionate quantum of water released so far from KN is dreadful whatever the SC verdict or Cauvery Water Tribunal's award. Adding insult to injury is burning Tamil business, buses & lorries. Yesterday's online papers & portals hardly mentioned KN's decision of not implementing SC's verdict. In fact I hardly notice any of these on line portals mention any TN news or Chennai - like opening of 10 km metro line in chennai yesterday - with news like jolie's divorce more prominently displayed. To make it worse TOI comes up with a gem like this

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 456828.cms

People wonder why TN never votes for any of the national parties.

[csubash]

http://hydro.imd.gov.in/hydrometweb/(S(n2hnnm55pgplwta3pwupmo45))/PdfReportPage.aspx?ImgUrl=PRODUCTS\Rainfall_Statistics\Cumulative\District_RF_Distribution\DISTRICT_RAINFALL_DISTRIBUTION_COUNTRY_INDIA_cd.PDF

http://hydro.imd.gov.in/hydrometweb/(S(n2hnnm55pgplwta3pwupmo45))/PdfReportPage.aspx?ImgUrl=PRODUCTS\Rainfall_Statistics\Cumulative\District_RF_Distribution\DISTRICT_RAINFALL_DISTRIBUTION_COUNTRY_INDIA_cd.PDF

Sorry pasting as plain text as can't get URL in correct format

[Javee]

To be honest KA thinks that kaveri is like their akshaya pathra, wants to use it fully to its hearts content. They adamantly refuse to understand that if they need water for Bengaluru city, then it has to come from KA's share. It is up to the KA govt to fight it out with their farmers and industries. Take a look at what's going on in Central CA. Los Angeles is paying money to the farmers to not use the water so LA can get more drinking water. It is stupidity to argue that somehow TN has to accommodate KA's request and reduce its dependence on kaveri water. Unlike KA, kaveri is the life line for close to 7 districts with millions of lives on the line. Half if one of the largest textile cluster of India depends on this water. Net net, if I look at this, Kaveri in TN is much more lucrative than Bengaluru's IT exports, so to speak.

[Sachin]

Yesterday there was a report in Deccan Herald suggesting that the recent Supreme Court order is invalid. They had used the Art.262 of the Constituition to prove that point.
Article 262 of the Constituition:-
262. Adjudication of disputes relating to waters of inter State rivers or river valleys
(1) Parliament may by law provide for the adjudication of any dispute or complaint with respect to the use, distribution or control of the waters of, or in, any inter State river or river valley
(2) Notwithstanding anything in this Constitution, Parliament may by law provide that neither the Supreme Court nor any other court shall exercise jurisdiction in respect of any such dispute or complaint as is referred to in clause ( 1 ) Co ordination between States

Based on provision (2), the government had enacted the "The Interstate River Water Dispute Act, 1956".. I did check if any provisions in the Act explicitly forbade Supreme Courts or other courts from exercising jurisdiction in these water disputes. I did not find any such clauses. Sec 4 of the Interstate River Water Dispute Act, 1956 talks about the creation of a Tribunal to hear such cases. But here again I did not find any provision which says that only this tribunal can hear such cases. The orders from these tribunals will have the same effect as that of orders coming from Supreme Court.

Sachin saar, this article had been posted earlier on this thread, and is a good read. Let me quote some excerpts relevant to your questions

Thanks. It did get me an idea. When the worthies decided that "that at 50% dependability (of the monsoon), 740 TMC ft. of water would be available annually"; they meant that across the four states (KA,TN,PY,KL) in their own respective catchment areas there would be 740 TMC ft of water available.

It also directed Karnataka, which is the upper riparian state (where the river originates), to ensure that 192 TMC ft. is given to Tamil Nadu annually and fixed a monthly quota to be given.

We now know that TN is expected to get 227TMC ft from its own catchment areas. But what were the arguments they put up to prove that this was not sufficient, and 192TMC ft worth of water is required extra? Is it based on the agricultural lands in TN or some thing like that?. Read the article, you linked and I got the answer.

They adamantly refuse to understand that if they need water for Bengaluru city, then it has to come from KA's share.

Is that not the case now? Or is KA using water out of TN's share for supplying Bengaluru and other cities with water, while retaining its alloted share (270 TMC ft) for purely agricultural purposes?

[Aditya_V]

Well Sachin, its not like KA restricts itself to 270 TMCFT and everything else is TN's, in a good year nobody really notes water is used, all that is done is measure the water released at Billigundu.

What KA has done is destroy Bengaluru's Lakes for real estate benifit and draw all water for Drinking from Cauvery. What used to be water shared between KA Farmers and TN farmers have now anther large user, Bengaluru for Its water uses. Meanwhile cities like Trichy, Kumbakonam etc. in TN which used to draw water for Cauvery for Urban purposes can no longer do so.

The Problem is many in KA stating that Cauvery is theirs and they will use every drop and only if there is an excess after using up all their needs can water be allowed to go to TN.

Imagine a city like Bengaluru which was flooded in the beginning of August has not conserved any water in any lake but wants to use only Cauvery water for its Urban purposes.

Why cant some water from Machanabele be used for supplying drinking water to Bengaluru

[csubash]

Posted as received from WhatsApp


Sometimes it is not possible to analyse Cause and Effect

There are Two Headlines today.

Karnataka Refuses to Release water to TN.

JAYALALITHA Hospitalised
for Dehydration at Chennai.

[Javee]

Sachin,
KA claims the water in its dam is for its own drinking purposes, so it is indeed water thats supposed to go to TN, KL, PY. What they fail to understand is that all the water does not belong to them but to all the 4 states.

[mnag]

Sachin,
KA claims the water in its dam is for its own drinking purposes, so it is indeed water thats supposed to go to TN, KL, PY. What they fail to understand is that all the water does not belong to them but to all the 4 states.

Doesnt it look self contradictory? TN has 40-50 TMC in mettur which should suffice for drinking water + some irrigation. Plus TN will receive NE monsoons. But TN doesnt want Karnataka to use the existing 20-25 TMC for drinking water of Bangalore (the need is 20 TMC). Isnt it the case of TN thinking water belongs solely to them?