Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 01 Oct 2016 01:08

As Singha saar had mentioned, TSP will try to enhance its surveillance capabilities along its side of LoC and plug in the loopholes. So a similar operation with same effectiveness in future will be more challenging. As Karan has mentioned, the most recent ops has brought SF/surgical strikes in to the open domain. Our army & ops planners will be aware of the improvements along LoC and will plan accordingly, but I imagine it will require developing newer tactics along with modifying existing ones, perhaps developing & acquiring newer tech, equipment (hello, stealth Dhruv

). The whole process will be made more effective and hopefully Indian labs & Pvt sector can play a significant role and I think going further, it will be good news.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 01 Oct 2016 01:10

Karan M wrote:Nice Mihir! - just goes to show public opinion is not easily stereotyped. I firmly believe apart from a core group of BJP/Modi etc baiters, the average Indian is positively happy about the raid. Its been a long time coming.

At least people have taken notice. Its just the same type of effect the we saw when modi mentioned Baluchistan from Red Fort. Those who didnt even know where on the world map Balochistan exists, started supporting Balochistan. I see many who wouldn't give two hoots about anything going on border now at least taking note. I am sure many didn't know what the hell is IWT or MFN., until now.

such is the effect of one overt ops. So i have been saying we should do it - and I am so glad we did it at last. Perceptions matter. A lot of naysayers today are accepting Modi was not just about talk. And that India can retaliate too.

I wish government release drone footage soon enough. May be just before 2019 elections..!

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 01 Oct 2016 01:27

Pakis also started searching where Balochistan is after modi Mentioned it on 15 Aug

check out the google trends.
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=balochistan

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 01 Oct 2016 01:33

Yesterday night ISPR trended #welldonepakarmy , they were circulating 4-5 twitter videos of old & new ceasefire violations across LOC, where totally unsuspecting Indian Jawans were targeted by sniper fire or mortar/light artillery.

In these ISIS style videos w/o sound,
single Jawans standing guard at a stationery position are suddenly hit with gunfire.
a couple of Jawans walking along the fence on a normal patrol are suddenly hit with light artillery.
a Jawan whose back is turned , while bending to reach into his personal affects is shot from behind.

Only common thread in these videos is that one can clearly see that all the targeted Jawans were clearly under the impression that rules of engagement (i.e of the ceasefire) are still holding - and were completely unsuspecting & unexpecting of such targeted Paki fire.

My overwhelming feeling while watching those videos is that this surgical strike should just be the beginning & IA should continue targeting the Pakis across the border with no apparent rhyme or reason & with such unforgiving ferocity that no Paki dares to put a finger on the trigger when he sees an Indian Jawan through his gunsights.

Like the cryptiean raids by Spartans into helot countryside once darkness fell, IA should make sure nights are terrifyingly long and cold for the Pakis. PA should literally quake in their shalwars during nights.
Further NaMo should bring in mandatory 2 year military service for Indian Youth.Let them be exposed to the courage & sacrifice of our uniformed services.Indians have been emasculated by the British laws banning possession of weapons - a policy continued by the Nehruvian state.Even if weapons remain banned, every indian should instinctively know to stand up & fight for Dharma when the situation demands it.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 01 Oct 2016 01:47

Nice idea Lilo: In the short term, MOD civilian jobs should be assessed for those who have done a tour of duty or served in the forces., the idea of directly recruiting civilian civil servants needs phasing out. In the longer term the Admiralty will have to be spun out from the MOD.
Also the Pandit communities are happy for ex-servicemen to occupy the properties from which they were evicted.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Oct 2016 01:59

Mihir, same with the groups I am member of. anti-paki jokes and patriotic comments are the flavour of the day.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 01 Oct 2016 02:28

@Lilo Agree with you. To show such videos with glory is something only TSP does.

With TSP- there is a clash of mindset, we must not mistake it for an isolated skirmish/issue/dispute. There is no end until an end is shown to the Pakjabi Gernails.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 01 Oct 2016 02:34

The Pakistani response (or lack of any coherent response) makes overwhelmingly clear that they have NO idea WTF to do.

They were so deeply accustomed to the way things were... dossiers and ninda and "dehati aurat" lectures and no visible action other than some shelling... that when real retribution has occurred, they are in total denial. They insist that nothing happened at all except for more shelling. They (and their proxies in India, like Praveen Swami and Ajai Shukla) ask for "proof".

When it is mentioned that proof exists in the form of videos taken by our guys, they try to brazen it out by saying "if there is video, show it no... see, we have videos of what we did and we will make them public"... and then put out some videos of Parakram vintage or older. Futher destroying what little credibility they have, in the process.

In truth they are browning their shalwars all over again with the fact that the video of our op is hanging over their heads. For the jernails, the H&D loss suffered by our making those videos public will be even worse than the physical loss during the op. It's almost like we have the capacity to slap them even harder, all over again, but this time only by moving a finger to click a mouse

Now they've activated all the diplomatic channels to bleat for help before everyone who used to come rushing to their rescue by asking for "restraint", and then some. But to no avail. US- nope. China- nix. Russia- nyet. This kind of "isolation" is at least as painful to them as the pullout of every other country from the Slumbad SAARC summit. They could always say "who needs SAARC when we have the four fathers"... but now even the four fathers are ignoring their yowls for help.

Of course, it doesn't help their bleats for assistance when they continue to deny that India did anything

After all, if nothing happened, what do they want to be saved from?

Many, many people... from the Pentagon to Vivekananda Foundation... have reason to feel a truly sweet, blissful sense of vindication over this. Pakis, the masters of plausible deniability, of two-timing, of running-with-hare and hunting-with-hounds, are suffering the effects of the same game played upon them by a player who outclasses them utterly.

It isn't for nothing that we spent 1008 pages of discussion on the election of the man who is in 7 RCR today. I honestly haven't experienced such joy... the kind of joy that springs from watching a painstakingly-tied Gordian knot being shredded in one single blow... since the '98 nuclear tests.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 01 Oct 2016 02:36

Karan M wrote:Nice Mihir! - just goes to show public opinion is not easily stereotyped. I firmly believe apart from a core group of BJP/Modi etc baiters, the average Indian is positively happy about the raid. Its been a long time coming.

I think there is a large population of people who suffer from 'Cyberfright' and are very reluctant to come on this world-wide stage. Even on my closed FB group (classmates), there are only a few who ever post or write although everyone reads. Yesterday's news could not be bigger in its import and its impact on India and Indians everywhere. Yet, only the usual suspects wrote or commented.

We on BRF are the tip of a huge iceberg (at least I hope so) that goes real deep. There are so many that are still not computer savvy and have language issues who do not feel comfortable writing in English. But when I talk to them on my visits to India they are as fiercely Dharmic as you would have them be.

Fact is, it is the "Public school/Convent" educated English-speaking Billy Bunter types who are the real mischief makers. They are truly a minority but are shrill and by virtue of the lofty positions they have managed to occupy appear larger than they are. They, IMHO became deracinated early in life and feel compelled to forever hate anything that is saffron. I know the type because, sadly, I too was one in my youth.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 01 Oct 2016 02:36

Very pained to write that Asha Bhosle has been latest victim of Pakistani trolls for tweeting Jai Hind on eve of surgical strike.
She hit back saying “Didn’t know so many abusive kutte were following me Deleted all. Doodh ka doodh pani ka pani Guess my fellow artistes facing same problem (sic),”

Bhonsle, however, clarified that — Pakistani or not — anyone can be abusive. “I said abusive kutte. Did I say Pakistani ? So Why are Pakistanis upset ? Anyone can be abusive,” she wrote

Such is vice like grasp of underworld that Bwood stars fear to say Jai Hind! It seems.

http://indianexpress.com/article/trendi ... r-3058553/

This is noteworthy that SRK who went all out in support of IA has been spared abuse where as Asha Bhosle has been targeted only for tweeting Jai Hind!

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 01 Oct 2016 02:43

rudradev ji +1

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 01 Oct 2016 02:51

Army's Surgical Strikes Were Carefully Measured: American Think-Tank http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/armys-su ... nk-1468624

almost every thing said by think tank has been stated here by garus, either NDTV did a cheap job of stealing ideas from here and giving it name of US think tank or as usual BRF ahead of curve!

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 01 Oct 2016 02:52

Tx Indra ji.

One more point, and it's a really important one.

During Kargil, it was incumbent on the Indian armed forces that they should *respect the sanctity of the LoC* at all costs. This was a standing order given by the Vajpayee govt. At times, it meant that we had to forsake options that could have given us certain operational advantages... but as it turned out, this was a key factor in convincing the US not to intervene on Pakistan's behalf when their buggers started getting chewed up. It made it difficult for even the most Pak-Pasand busybodies in the Clinton administration to make the case that US should intervene on Pakistan's side... after all, India had painstakingly maintained the status quo as mandated by the 1948 UN cease-fire line, and never crossed the LoC or IB. Pakistan was clearly the aggressor, to such an extent that no equal-equal was possible. So in the end, Nawaz was sent home from Washington empty-handed.

Today look at the difference. We go across the LOC and hit them hard. We claim it loudly, they deny it! We further rub mirchi in their wounds by saying that crossing the LoC still constitutes an op in our own territory, because all of J&K is ours, bhaad mein jaaye UN cease-fire. And they get no sympathy at all from the international community.

Truly, we have changed the parameters of the conversation comprehensively. The world really has no interest at all in solving the "Kashmir problem", least of all solving it in Pakistan's favor. From nobly adhering to the LoC as a self-imposed Lakshman Rekha we are boldly and openly crossing it in pursuit of our interests. And nobody is saying anything.

Can you imagine how much pepto-bismol is being consumed in Pindi right now?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 01 Oct 2016 03:00

Yes pertinent point rudradevji I also think to significant extent world is fed up of Pakis & their antics, and as already stated here deep inside are having a sense of bliss and calmness that what they always wanted is being done by India! Further Paki image has suffered severe face loss over last 15 yrs after Kargil. Carrying a Paki PP is total haram on international yatra these days, those who get out of that hell hole, put every thing at stake never to go back. I saw this first hand.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 01 Oct 2016 03:46

IndraD wrote:Very pained to write that Asha Bhosle has been latest victim of Pakistani trolls for tweeting Jai Hind on eve of surgical strike.
She hit back saying “Didn’t know so many abusive kutte were following me Deleted all. Doodh ka doodh pani ka pani Guess my fellow artistes facing same problem (sic),”

Bhonsle, however, clarified that — Pakistani or not — anyone can be abusive. “I said abusive kutte. Did I say Pakistani ? So Why are Pakistanis upset ? Anyone can be abusive,” she wrote

Such is vice like grasp of underworld that Bwood stars fear to say Jai Hind! It seems.

http://indianexpress.com/article/trendi ... r-3058553/

This is noteworthy that SRK who went all out in support of IA has been spared abuse where as Asha Bhosle has been targeted only for tweeting Jai Hind!

A very long time ago her daughter Varsha was a very active blogger with a Dharmic slant and her wit and humor were sharper than many a scalpel. She was a true cyber-sipahi, said it like it was. We used to have an animated discussion via emails then. Sadly she is no more.

Melwyn · Post by **Melwyn** » 01 Oct 2016 03:50

Have to agree with what IndraD jee has said above. It might seem all normal on the surface but Pakistani passport is a curse for anyone traveling abroad. I personally know many Pakistani people in the Bay area who work under pseudonyms to avoid detection. Unfortunately, since most jihadi types are Punjabis, they tend to use Sikh names to hide their identity. Some day someone with a fake identity is going to go crazy and Sikhs will be the target of retribution.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 01 Oct 2016 03:58

Even many years ago but still post-9/11, Pakis studying in US on student visas had to make a call and undergo secondary inspection even when leaving the US temporarily. Yup they had emigration interviews in a country where 99.9999% travelers don't undergo an emigration interview unlike EU/India where it is the norm for everybody.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 01 Oct 2016 04:02

Rudradev wrote:Tx Indra ji.

One more point, and it's a really important one.

During Kargil, it was incumbent on the Indian armed forces that they should *respect the sanctity of the LoC* at all costs. This was a standing order given by the Vajpayee govt. At times, it meant that we had to forsake options that could have given us certain operational advantages... but as it turned out, this was a key factor in convincing the US not to intervene on Pakistan's behalf when their buggers started getting chewed up. It made it difficult for even the most Pak-Pasand busybodies in the Clinton administration to make the case that US should intervene on Pakistan's side... after all, India had painstakingly maintained the status quo as mandated by the 1948 UN cease-fire line, and never crossed the LoC or IB. Pakistan was clearly the aggressor, to such an extent that no equal-equal was possible. So in the end, Nawaz was sent home from Washington empty-handed.

Today look at the difference. We go across the LOC and hit them hard. We claim it loudly, they deny it! We further rub mirchi in their wounds by saying that crossing the LoC still constitutes an op in our own territory, because all of J&K is ours, bhaad mein jaaye UN cease-fire. And they get no sympathy at all from the international community.

Truly, we have changed the parameters of the conversation comprehensively. The world really has no interest at all in solving the "Kashmir problem", least of all solving it in Pakistan's favor. From nobly adhering to the LoC as a self-imposed Lakshman Rekha we are boldly and openly crossing it in pursuit of our interests. And nobody is saying anything.

Can you imagine how much pepto-bismol is being consumed in Pindi right now?

I don't know if the 'restraint' we showed in Kargil was really the right thing to do. We are certainly a stronger army and a more powerful economy now but I am thinking of 1965 and '71 when we were in much poorer shape (not vis a vis Pak but in global terms). And yet, LBS and IG both chose to stand up to the powerful forces aligned with Pakistan. One could argue that the Soviets had our backs then, but I think it was more the political courage to do the right thing that carried the day, plus of course the grit and determination of our soldiers.

We were a nation of over 1 billion in 1999. It is no trifle to mess with that big a country, IF (and this is the major contention) there is a will to stand together. Vietnam was nothing in comparison and yet it essentially beat the US despite 'boots on the ground' and everything that it threw at the tiny nation. I don't know what Clinton could have done had the IAF gone behind the LOC. For all his virtues, ABV was too much of a dove in the end.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Oct 2016 04:11

I have to admit, even after NaMo came to power I never expected anything like this. I was sure there would be terror attacks by the pakis and was reasonably sure that NaMo would avoid the puke inducing pappi-jhappi that the congis practiced. But this was beyond my expectations. Kudos to the daredevils who carried it out. We are (even more) in your debt.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 01 Oct 2016 04:12

amitkv wrote:Have to agree with what IndraD jee has said above. It might seem all normal on the surface but Pakistani passport is a curse for anyone traveling abroad. I personally know many Pakistani people in the Bay area who work under pseudonyms to avoid detection. Unfortunately, since most jihadi types are Punjabis, they tend to use Sikh names to hide their identity. Some day someone with a fake identity is going to go crazy and Sikhs will be the target of retribution.

It is also a fact that many Pakis are converted Hindus and Sikhs who carry their original last names like Bajwa, Khokhar, Patel, Chaudhry, Gondal (real people I know). If the first name is not an obvious give-away, they can happily pretend they are neither Pakis nor muslims. Most Americans cannot read beyond Mohamed and Hussain. And some Mohameds call themselves 'Mike' or 'Moe' which then confuses the hell out of the locals.

saip · Post by **saip** » 01 Oct 2016 04:13

I remember, post 9/11 our executives did not want to go Pakistan and the pakis were not getting business visas. So our execs ended up meeting them in London a few times. Few years later I was supposed to go to pakiland for training pakis but I could not get a visa in time because of my Indian origin.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Oct 2016 04:22

Primus wrote: I don't know if the 'restraint' we showed in Kargil was really the right thing to do. We are certainly a stronger army and a more powerful economy now but I am thinking of 1965 and '71 when we were in much poorer shape (not vis a vis Pak but in global terms).

Actually in some ways we were actually better off then than now. Especially in the aerial department. Air Marshal Kaiser Tufail's blog very clearly mentions the dire situation that the PAF was in at the time. The spares situation for their best aircraft, the F-16's was horrible. They had trouble maintaining regular patrols and had to be curtailed. Most of their other jets didn't even have radars. And no aircraft in the PAF, including the F-16s had beyond-visual-range missiles. We on the other hand had six total squadrons of BVR capable fighters (Mig-29s and Mirage-2000s).

If the conflict had escalated, the carnage that the IAF would have caused would have been memorable. The PAF is in a much better situation today, though the IAF's firepower has increased as well. They aren't BVR-nude for example, have acquired more F-16s and AEWs and the JF-17s are definitely better than the obsolete F-7s and Mirage-3s they had at the time.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 01 Oct 2016 04:24

Primus, it was what we did then based on the best (I trust) information and assessments available to the Vajpayee govt. Clinton was in an intervening mood, Madeline Albright was in a China-pasand mood, Robin Raphel and Karl Inderfurth in a Pak-pasand mood. Just a year previously, Albright had threatened India with a military response over the nuke tests... and we were still under US sanctions at the time. Maybe we could have gone defiantly ahead with crossing the IB, but were we ready for a US intervention of the Yugoslavia type, SEAD and no-fly-zones that could have helped the Pakis forcibly change the situation on the ground? Also, this was a newly unipolar world where the Russians wouldn't have lifted a finger for us, just as they didn't for the Serbs. Meanwhile, the US hadn't experienced 9/11, or the effects of its lovely 2001-2016 embrace with Pakistan yet. So risks were there.

I'm not sure Vietnam is the appropriate point of comparison. They were fighting the third of many serial existential fights, for the very survival of their nation... after the Japanese and the French, the Americans. No doubt if we were invaded on such a scale, with a puppet govt. established by the Americans (or anyone else) in one half of the country, we too would fight like that... total war, no questions asked, until we were all dead or we won. The situation at Kargil was qualitatively different... we didn't want an existential war of any kind, and in fact a chance to grow what was then a fledgling market economy. Which also depended on the goodwill of the world order, led by the US in large part.

No question that ABV was essentially a dove with Nehruvian romantic pretensions (his Urdu-couplet-riddled speech made during the Lahore bus visit is truly nauseating). He would probably not have been assertive enough to cross the IB even if the international climate had been more neutral and less likely to intervene against us. My observation was really about how much that climate has changed... in fact, how much we have made it change just by having a PM who goes ahead and asserts Indian interests without giving a f**k about the "log kya kahengey" mentality. When you get out and do what needs to be done, most busybodies will just shut up and watch. It took Modi to prove that.

salaam · Post by **salaam** » 01 Oct 2016 05:05

When Kargil happened India was still under US sanctions. Strobe Talbott / Madeleine Albright was actively pursuing policy of cap, reduce, and then eliminate India's Nuclear program. This was also the time when the Chinese foreign minister Tang Jiaxuan will talk to Jaswant Singh while showing displeasure by constantly banging the table. India was walking a very tight rope.

Baton was passed by Narasimha Rao and ABV to his due credit went ahead and did Pokharan 2. When Musharraf says that they were tactically brilliant, they actually had gamed it pretty well. They knew India was in a bind and their relations were still ok with US.

US was the sole super power and in the real mood to punish all erstwhile Soviet friends. We came out pretty well from that period and are able to live and still write the new history of India.

Jaswant Singh might have not played this exactly right, but he did a commendable job. His Jinnah book started his downfall and wasn't even given a ticket for this Lok Sabha.

Current times are different; we are a major defense consumer of US. Much in line of their policy of China containment. One reason of sudden Iran about face by US is due to Af-Pak policy rethink.

Pakistan should not be allowed to develop PU bombs. This slow ratcheting up of the temperature is very nicely calibrated. If this goes well, we will have a much healthier western border and less aggressive Northern border.

komal · Post by **komal** » 01 Oct 2016 05:15

In 1999, India was close to being a pariah state.

The U. S. Congress was solidly pro-Pakistani with people like Jesse Helms and Dan Burton. My own representative went to India and reported to us constituents about the brutal treatment the Indians were meting out to peace loving Muslims in Kashmir. Amnesty International etc. routinely accused India of the worst human rights violations.

On the other hand, Islam was the flavor of the day. Just a few years earlier, in 1995, the Wall Street Journal cheered the Taliban take over of Afghanistan.

No one cared when India said Pakistan was sponsoring terrorism against Indian civilians.

In 1999, Pakistan wanted India to open a second front (Pakistan would have been an innocent victim of Hindu violence). Pakistan's hope was to get Kargil to the U. N. where, with Chinese/British/American support, India would be forced to surrender Kashmir to Pakistan or face the type of sanctions imposed on Iran/Iraq.

And the neo-cons (who considered Pakistan a key ally) would have forced Israel to suspend supply of military hardware to India.

Today, no one cares about Pakistan (and most wish it would disappear). The West would willingly support Indian obliteration of Pakistan.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 01 Oct 2016 05:24

M_Joshi wrote:

I remember seeing this ~~Aaj Tak~~ Aap ki Adalat video before the elections.

At 2:03 CM Modi says: "Main aaj bhi kehta hoon..... Pakistan ko usi ki bhasha mein jawaab deni chahiye"

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 01 Oct 2016 06:08

Don't know if this was posted here but just for fyi and fun

Adnan Sami Trolled For Praising Indian Army For Surgical Strikes

NEW DELHI: Pakistani-origin singer Adnan Sami, who is now an Indian citizen, has hailed the Indian Army for conducting surgical strikes on terror labs across the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir. On being trolled on Twitter by Pakistanis, he said their outburst clearly means they fail to distinguish between "terrorist and Pakistan".

"Pakistanis are outraged by my earlier tweet. Their outburst clearly means they see terrorist and Pakistan as the same! Self-goal. Stop terrorism," Mr Adnan tweeted on Friday after receiving hate comments on his previous post.

The singer, who received his certificate of Indian citizenship earlier this year, had first tweeted: "Big Congratulations to PMO India and our brave armed forces for a brilliant, successful and mature strategic strike against terrorism! Salute."

Mr Adnan, whose father Arshad Sami Khan was a diplomat and served as Pakistan's ambassador to 14 countries, angered many Twitter users, including Salman Ahmad of Pakistani band Junoon.

"Being the son of a Pakistani ambassador should've told you that no one wins a war between nuclear states. According to your twisted logic, your father too has served as a terrorist ambassador. Have you disowned your parents too," Salman Ahmad questioned Mr Adnan.

Other Twitter users also slammed Mr Adnan, who was born in Britain.

One wrote: "Adnan Bhai you were a Pakistani and you better know the strength of Pak Army."

Another tweeted: "You don't have to keep reaffirming your pledge of allegiance to your new motherland."

A Twitter user also mentioned how his father "was in PAF and was awarded Hilal-i-Imtiaz if I wasn't wrong and you're calling them terrorist".

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Oct 2016 06:11

Around me here the support I see for the strike is essentially unanimous. My SHQ who knows my nefarious activities but never says a word had commented before the strike "Why don't the lob a few bombs on them?". Yesterday in some random shop a lady customer and the shopkeeper were nodding their heads in satisfaction that the Pakis were hit, Of course the intensity of feeling this time was just as high as 2001-2 - but we were disappointed back then.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Oct 2016 06:34

vina wrote:
After that India's failure to capture Lahore was Pakistani victory
It was never a war aim in 1965 to capture Lahore.

That is why the Pakis claim it was victory. They say that overrunning Pakistan itself, let alone capture of Lahore was an Indian war aim and India failed.

The point here is that ordinary people who think normally will find it difficult to come up with the twisted explanations given on a national scale in Pakistan to show how they have never lost. The Pakistan army has been instrumental in guiding the insertion of these myths in Pakistani education and they are now ubiquitous.

Earlier in this page someone has posted Paki reactions to Adnan Sami's endorsement of the action. One comment is "You know how powerful the Pakistan army is" or something to that effect.

The Paki army has only two options - one is to either prove its strength in a direct fight, or hide behind convoluted stories and explanation as to why there was no fight at all or that a fight occurred but the Indian are lying because they lost. It is honestly difficult to think like this but let me relate a story from my schooldays in Pune, Jharkhand. In those days the Indian army had acquired new trucks called "Shaktimaan" trucks. One classmate of mine (Shyamsundar) told me that these trucks can run on anything - petrol, diesel, water, honey anything. I was naive. I could not believe it but looked for confirmation and eventually discovered that this was not true. I went back and confronted the chap who had told me that and he gave me a "mooh tod jawab" by telling me "What do you mean I told you all that. It was you who told me that". That taught me a lesson about people

See what the Pakis are doing now. Some are saying "There was no raid. Others are saying - yes there was border action. 12 Indian army killed - the bodies are on your side". And if you visit the Pakistan Def Twitter site (I have been blocked) you find comments that say "The Indian army has always been reluctant to accept the bodies of their dead.

It's the ghost of my friend Shyamsundar living on in Pakistan

la.khan · Post by **la.khan** » 01 Oct 2016 06:50

SBajwa wrote:350,000+ signatures on the petition to declare Bakistani a terrorist country!!

Bajwa saheb, this is the whitehouse.gov petition, right? This is open only to US citizens and/or US residents? Or, anybody can vote?

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 01 Oct 2016 07:09

Raja Bose wrote:Even many years ago but still post-9/11, Pakis studying in US on student visas had to make a call and undergo secondary inspection even when leaving the US temporarily. Yup they had emigration interviews in a country where 99.9999% travelers don't undergo an emigration interview unlike EU/India where it is the norm for everybody.

That reminds me of a particular dude I knew, who was *not a citizen of Pakistan", but was of Pakistani origin and working in the US. He went to Pak-land for a vacation/shaadi and couldn't come back for many months, while the US embassy demanded document after document to grant his visa back. Mind you, this guy was uber-connected (I didn't quite realize how much until he produced some wedding pics -- both Mushy and the then Paki PM were in attendance. Also, he later referred to one person that got goatnapped for a few years as his cousin, so he's definitely related to the ex-PM, plus he's referred to a Pak ambassador to the UK as an uncle), but even that didn't help him at the embassy.

saip · Post by **saip** » 01 Oct 2016 07:11

la.khan wrote:
SBajwa wrote:350,000+ signatures on the petition to declare Bakistani a terrorist country!!
Bajwa saheb, this is the whitehouse.gov petition, right? This is open only to US citizens and/or US residents? Or, anybody can vote?

It does not ask your citizenship status. Just you need to have a valid email for verification. Here is the link. (392000 and counting.)

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... ism-hr6069

KarthikSan · Post by **KarthikSan** » 01 Oct 2016 07:28

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 165152.ece

Why is the I&B minister denying use of any aerial support?

Shortly after the Army announced in Delhi that surgical strikes had been carried out along the LoC, Minister of State for Information and Broadcasting Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore told The Hindu that these did not involve any aerial operations.

“There were no aerial strikes,” Mr. Rathore, himself an ex-Indian Army man, explained recounting the operation. He denied that any helicopters were used. He confirmed that the Indian Army crossed the LoC “on the ground” for carrying out what he termed were “pre-emptive strikes”. “That is not like crossing the International Border.” The targets were “launch pads”, he said, which are temporary in nature. Infiltrators gather there for a day or so just before crossing over to the Indian side under cover of Pakistan Army. firing.

Melwyn · Post by **Melwyn** » 01 Oct 2016 07:34

^ "No comments" should be the first word taught to every minister and public servant.

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 01 Oct 2016 07:40

shiv wrote:
vina wrote: It was never a war aim in 1965 to capture Lahore.
That is why the Pakis claim it was victory. They say that overrunning Pakistan itself, let alone capture of Lahore was an Indian war aim and India failed.

The point here is that ordinary people who think normally will find it difficult to come up with the twisted explanations given on a national scale in Pakistan to show how they have never lost. The Pakistan army has been instrumental in guiding the insertion of these myths in Pakistani education and they are now ubiquitous.

Earlier in this page someone has posted Paki reactions to Adnan Sami's endorsement of the action. One comment is "You know how powerful the Pakistan army is" or something to that effect.

The Paki army has only two options - one is to either prove its strength in a direct fight, or hide behind convoluted stories and explanation as to why there was no fight at all or that a fight occurred but the Indian are lying because they lost. It is honestly difficult to think like this but let me relate a story from my schooldays in Pune, Jharkhand. In those days the Indian army had acquired new trucks called "Shaktimaan" trucks. One classmate of mine (Shyamsundar) told me that these trucks can run on anything - petrol, diesel, water, honey anything. I was naive. I could not believe it but looked for confirmation and eventually discovered that this was not true. I went back and confronted the chap who had told me that and he gave me a "mooh tod jawab" by telling me "What do you mean I told you all that. It was you who told me that". That taught me a lesson about people

See what the Pakis are doing now. Some are saying "There was no raid. Others are saying - yes there was border action. 12 Indian army killed - the bodies are on your side". And if you visit the Pakistan Def Twitter site (I have been blocked) you find comments that say "The Indian army has always been reluctant to accept the bodies of their dead. It's the ghost of my friend Shyamsundar living on in Pakistan

The bolded part has a name in pop psychology: Gaslighting.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

williams · Post by **williams** » 01 Oct 2016 07:42

From what I understand. Helicopters did not cross LOC. They were used to ferry the troops and there were airborne gunships that were ready for exfiltration support. Troops moved inside POK by foot. They only hit the launch pads not the terrorist training camps. Basically we took the smallest risk possible to inflict maximum pain. There were tactical goals of eliminating terrorists and strategic goal of sending a message that we will not hesitate to take military action across the border if needed. There is debriefing going on and after scrubbing any sensitive information the AV clips will be released to the public at an appropriate time. The information even Rathore ji has is for public domain only. The deeper details of the operation is given on a need to know basis.

partha · Post by **partha** » 01 Oct 2016 08:14

shiv wrote:Around me here the support I see for the strike is essentially unanimous. My SHQ who knows my nefarious activities but never says a word had commented before the strike "Why don't the lob a few bombs on them?". Yesterday in some random shop a lady customer and the shopkeeper were nodding their heads in satisfaction that the Pakis were hit, Of course the intensity of feeling this time was just as high as 2001-2 - but we were disappointed back then.

My observation too. I haven't come across even a single person who doesn't approve of the surgical strike. Indian response has clearly exposed the resident non Indians in India. This fringe will only believe India did the strike if Raheel Shariff personally calls them and confirms but then they might accuse him of being a Sanghi, you never know.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 01 Oct 2016 08:18

should have used the helicopter gunships.

a few bursts would have cleaned things up.

if you're going to do strikes, do it well.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 01 Oct 2016 08:27

Salman Khan's and Karan Johar;s next movie may need "treatment". This may be needed to make sure all fall in line.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 01 Oct 2016 08:27

^ Why ? wasn't necessary and goal was achieved.