Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 02 Oct 2016 23:39

sudhan wrote:
Primus wrote:
Look at this edition of the glossy magazine put out by ISIS here: Dabiq Read the chapter on 'How I came to Islam' by a woman born a Christian in Finland (pg 36 on).

Sam Harris has an interesting take on this issue of the magazine on his podcast What Do Jihadists Really Want

The above linked pdf has some uber graphic images. Please be warned..

What was I thinking!!!!! Started reading it like any other magazine.

Apologies, should have warned people. The fact is that if they can put stuff like that in a super glossy and slick magazine that is (widely) circulated indicates their disregard for all humanitarian values. And that in itself is an extremely scary thought that they expect their rank and file and potential recruits to become 'comfortable' with such graphic displays of torture and killing.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 02 Oct 2016 23:48

I urge every one to find and see Tarek Fatah in Junta ki Adalat on India TV. That episode is a cracker and this man is such a live wire. Many details he spoke about Pakistani army which BRFites will totally agree with! Nice to see such thing are being told in public domain.
Surprised to know that getting Indian citizenship is very difficult, hence Bugti and some others whom GoI wants to accommodate in, are finding it difficult!

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 02 Oct 2016 23:49

anishns wrote: Why can't we just nab a couple from otherside of the LoC and negotiate an exchange !

Only if you manage to nab a jernail or a kernail, they do not care for the well being of the ordinary soldiers. Remember how they refused to take back the bodies of NLI soldiers in Kargil. Those soldiers being mostly Shia were considered heretics anyway.
Gautam

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 03 Oct 2016 00:06

chetak wrote:in all fairness, shouldn't we use pellet guns here too??

Hindustan Times ‏@htTweets 2h2 hours ago

During the beating retreat ceremony at Wagah Border today, crowds from Pakistani side threw rocks at the Indian side

31 retweets 31 likes

Use this opportunity to put an end to this tamasha. BRFites have wanted this for a long time.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Oct 2016 00:31

Pigs attempted to storm a jt IA/46 RR camp at Baramulla.One BSF jawan martyred 3 IA jawans injured. 2 pigs exterminated.Situ fluid.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 03 Oct 2016 00:36

Porkis have taken the bait. With 18 Air Force bases on alert, villages upto 10 km from border evacuated and about 40 ships and 9 submarines to begin Exercise in Arabian Sea , TSPA and ISI don't have any idea what's waiting for them. BTW, i also have no idea.Hope, our porkistan problem will get solved soon.Looks like dear porkistan will get its 72 raisins before 2019.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Oct 2016 01:05

Fingers crossed.Porkistan decimation op must begin.Op Indus a good name perhaps?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 Oct 2016 01:58

Modi says India is not interested in gaining territory.

https://news.google.com/news/ampviewer? ... pt0-936648

this means Pakistan will lose territory

kulhariM · Post by **kulhariM** » 03 Oct 2016 02:04

http://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/news/n ... 03986.html

Another attack by b@$tards

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 03 Oct 2016 02:08

A_Gupta wrote:What a whopper!
http://dailytimes.com.pk/pakistan/02-Oc ... ike-a-hoax
Modi confirms evidence-less ‘surgical strike’ a hoax
India’s PM rejects his Army’s claim, says “India has not attacked anyone”

NEW DELHI: India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi has said that no ‘surgical strike’ has been carried out in any country, according to the Press Trust of India news service.

if they think this can pass, they really think of their readers as the most dumb people ever

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 03 Oct 2016 03:56

The 40 warships and 9 submarines should do a strike and we can claim there was no 'surgical strike', just a routine pot shot at Karachi harbor. Meanwhile, maybe some of our aircraft can fly 'low and slow' and buzz the LoC to test their air defense. Will provide for a lot of weeks of entertainment watching their analpests on TV spinning yarn after yarn.

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 03 Oct 2016 04:05

Doubt GoI will do that, but this should have the same punishment meted out to pakistan like Uri. Use drones and air force for long range strike across LoC if required.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 Oct 2016 04:17

Americans are wrongly escalating the situation. Need to take them out of the news and media channels
They are making fake assertion. Pak line being promoted which feeds to the tension

Published on Sep 15, 2016
Zero Line with Dr. Kent Moors
Nuclear War: World War 3 Could Start Between India & Pakistan
http://zerolinekentmoors.com/

The threat of nuclear war between India & Pakistan is just one piece of a larger geopolitical conflict that is quickly escalating -- called "The Great Game" by Dr. Kent Moors.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 03 Oct 2016 04:17

What a whopper!

http://dailytimes.com.pk/pakistan/02-Oc ... ike-a-hoax
Quote:
Modi confirms evidence-less ‘surgical strike’ a hoax
India’s PM rejects his Army’s claim, says “India has not attacked anyone”

NEW DELHI: India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi has said that no ‘surgical strike’ has been carried out in any country, according to the Press Trust of India news service.

if they think this can pass, they really think of their readers as the most dumb people ever

With all due respect, Pakistanis need to get a life. They live vicariously through India-its subcontinental cinema, its South Asian economy etc. They aren't dumb-there is nothing in that cultural waste-land-no achievement in any thing at all, there is nothing except religion.

Pakistan is unlike most African states- with the later the world would not notice if they vapourised, but with Pakistan the world would applaud.

That is really a sad state of affairs, sorry to be hurtful of the sentiments of Pakistani readers.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Oct 2016 06:20

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 03 Oct 2016 06:31

Carlotta Gall. who has borne the brunt of several physical assaults by the pakis has this to say (posting in its entirety since first 10 articles are free)

"KABUL, Afghanistan — There is an end-of-an-era feel here these days. Military helicopters rattle overhead, ferrying American and Afghan officials by air rather than risk cars bombs in the streets. The concrete barriers, guarding against suicide attacks, have grown taller and stronger around every embassy and government building, and whole streets are blocked off from the public.

It has been 15 years since American forces began their bombing campaign against the Taliban and Al Qaeda on Oct. 7, 2001, and sometimes it feels as if we are back to square one, that there is nothing to show for it.

The recent American military draw down has been drastic — from over 100,000 troops a few years ago to a force of 8,500 today. Thousands of Afghans have been made jobless as bases and assistance programs have closed. Meanwhile tens of thousands of Taliban are on the offensive in the countryside, threatening to overrun several provincial towns and staging huge bombings here in the capital.

Afghan forces have been bearing the brunt, suffering unsustainable casualties. Communities talk of hundreds of coffins returning from the front line. Civilians have suffered no less — thousands of families have been displaced anew by fighting, and aid workers warn that their access is deteriorating. Business executives have been leaving, selling off their property, and whole families have swelled the refugee columns heading to Europe.

The political mood is shifting, too, as Afghans sense the declining American influence and start casting around for new patrons or renewing old alliances. The politicking is intense: “Hot, very hot,” as a former minister described the political climate.

For Afghans, and for many of us who have followed Afghanistan for decades — I have been visiting the country since the early 1990s — the times are reminiscent of the Soviet Union’s withdrawal in 1989 after a 10-year occupation. The Communist government and army that the Soviets left behind survived only three years before they were overthrown by the mujahedeen in 1992.

The Taliban, supported by Pakistan, seem intent on repeating that scenario, hoping to seize control of a section of territory along the Pakistani border and declare once more their Islamic Emirate. Since the Taliban temporarily overran the town of Kunduz last fall, many Afghans have lost confidence that the government can protect them.

Over the years, Afghanistan has received one of the highest amounts of foreign assistance per capita, on a par with the West Bank and Gaza and Liberia. The United States alone has spent close to $500 billion on its Afghanistan mission since 2002, most of it on military operations but roughly a fifth — $113 billion — on reconstruction, according to the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction.

Yet it remains one of the poorest countries in the world — more than 10 million people live below the poverty line, and three-quarters of the population is illiterate, according to the World Bank.

It looked easy enough at the beginning. The Taliban were swiftly defeated in 2001 and fled in disarray, as did Al Qaeda’s forces. I saw thousands of their fighters — including hundreds of Al Qaeda fighters — surrender in northern Afghanistan, and there was no doubt they were at the end of their strength and had lost popular support.

But they were allowed to regroup just over the mountains in Pakistan, and from there they still menace Afghanistan and the wider region. In Pakistan they started teaching young men how to build pressure-cooker bombs filled with ball bearings and suicide belts, and later truck bombs, and sent them out by the hundreds against targets in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

They are still recruiting and training bombers, including Ahmad Khan Rahami, the suspect in a series of bombings last month in New York City and New Jersey, who spent months in a madrasa in a Taliban stronghold near the Pakistani frontier town of Quetta.

Despite years of denials from Pakistan, it is now widely understood that the Taliban has all this time been mentored and equipped by the Pakistani intelligence agency. Yet President Obama has failed, as did his predecessor, President George W. Bush, to end Pakistan’s long flirtation with Al Qaeda and its brand of terrorism.

Osama bin Laden’s successor, Ayman al-Zawahri, is still believed to be living in Pakistan, alongside the top Taliban leaders — and continues directing mayhem through his adherents across the Middle East, Africa and Asia. American Special Operations forces have been raiding Al Qaeda groups infiltrating back into Afghanistan over the last two years.

And the Pakistani military is ever more brazen in its support for the insurgents, even flying in retired military officers to train the Taliban by chartered helicopter — one crash-landed in a Taliban-controlled area of eastern Afghanistan in August bearing six retired military personnel and a Russian pilot.

Watching so many deadly attacks continue over the years with little done to prevent them at their source has been one of my hardest experiences as a reporter. And it is increasingly difficult to answer Afghans when they wonder how America could have been so blind or careless to ignore Pakistan’s role in sponsoring terrorism.

“For a long time America did not understand Afghanistan,” Commander Gadda, a grizzled jihadi commander and long opponent of the Taliban, told me. “Now they are beginning to, but after how long?”

...

...
"http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/opini ... eft-region

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 03 Oct 2016 07:00

^ In incognito mode all NYTimes articles are free!

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 03 Oct 2016 07:35

ANI ‏@ANI_news 5m5 minutes ago View translation
Foreign Affairs Advisor to Pak PM,Sartaj Aziz says Pak NSA Nasir Janjua & Indian NSA Ajit Doval made contact after recent tensions:Pak media

ANI ‏@ANI_news 4m4 minutes ago View translation
Sartaj Aziz says Pak NSA Nasir Janjua & Indian NSA Ajit Doval agreed to reduce tensions on LoC: Pakistan media

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 03 Oct 2016 09:19

shiv wrote:
Y. Kanan wrote:
Why hasn't GOI released any proof yet?
In my opinion there is absolutely no point in releasing proof if that proof is simply going to be dismissed by Pakistan as fake. Releasing proof because Pakis and libtards and commies ask is like going on the defensive and thinking that the army and GoI need to prove something to the world.

I believe that the proof lies in coffins in Pakistan and the paki army and jihadis who need to have the proof - are up to their necks in proof. I (or Ajai Shuklas) can say that we are not convinced. But that does not matter one bit

Don't underestimate the importance of winning the media war. In this kind of struggle, perception is half the battle. So far the Paki narrative is winning out because our side has failed to provide any proof of our claimed strikes. It would be a mistake to let Pakistan control the narrative here.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Oct 2016 09:20

https://twitter.com/ITNlive/status/782764955372183552

‏@ITNlive
EXCLUSIVE : रावलपिंडी में छिपे #HafizSaeed को पड़ा दिल का दौरा ! - https://goo.gl/6GhWQz View translation

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Oct 2016 09:23

^^

Could Hafiz Saeed have been taken out by surg strike which is now being called heart attack?

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 03 Oct 2016 09:41

Y. Kanan wrote:Don't underestimate the importance of winning the media war. In this kind of struggle, perception is half the battle. So far the Paki narrative is winning out because our side has failed to provide any proof of our claimed strikes. It would be a mistake to let Pakistan control the narrative here.

That's a disputable claim. The only place where Baki narrative IS "winning out" is their own domestic audience, who wish to remain in denial about the fact that their army of momin was just violated front and back.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Oct 2016 10:02

Y. Kanan wrote:
Don't underestimate the importance of winning the media war. In this kind of struggle, perception is half the battle. So far the Paki narrative is winning out because our side has failed to provide any proof of our claimed strikes. It would be a mistake to let Pakistan control the narrative here.

In this connection - when one is talking about "perceptions" it is important to estimate how much one's own perceptions are colouring one's views about other people's perceptions.

It is YOUR perception that Pakis are winning the media war. it is MY perception that they are not. So who is right? You, or me?

Short of polling everyone we cannot arrive at an honest answer to this question. In the absence of that it is important to understand that for those who perceive Indian actions as having been ineffective - no amount of "proof" can be guaranteed to change that perception. Vice versa is also true.

That being the case we can look at the benefit or otherwise of telling a black total lie and claiming that a raid took place when no raid took place. Assume that the GoI and army are lying and Pakistanis are 100% correct.

But look at the results (my percentages are not objective - they are only estimates)
1. Before news of Surgical strike (fake or real) - 90% Indian were unhappy about government inaction
2. After news of Surgical strike (fake or real) - 70% Indians are happy and maybe 30% unhappy

What does that tell you about perceptions even without "proof"

To sum up:
If a raid took place it is a double win
If a raid did not take place it is still a media victory for most part

partha · Post by **partha** » 03 Oct 2016 10:06

GoI has rightly not released any evidence. One of the reasons Pakis are provoking GoI into releasing the evidence of the strike is that they know we will get into endless discussion and analysis of the evidence led by Modi haters in the media like Praveen Swami (who will become SF ops experts overnight) which will take the focus away from terror attacks themselves. That's what happened post Pathankot. Huge distraction.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Oct 2016 10:08

Paki have to dig a deep hole for themselves b4 GOI show some Photus and JEM Murga in custody singing like Chiriya in front of Hawk.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Oct 2016 10:17

If you follow social media the narrative has changed. Apart from Pakis and a few doubting Thomases even people like Shekhar Coupta and that insufferable Malini Parthasarathy have accepted that there was a strike in Pakistan. Ms Malini called Baramulla as retaliation for Indian strike.

The media war has been comprehensively won and we need not even actually have conducted a raid at all. The fact that we did is a huge bonus.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 03 Oct 2016 10:23

Pakistani artists are in a vulnerable position, says Swara Bhaskar

http://indianexpress.com/article/entert ... r-3060893/

Swara Bhaskar thinks Pakistani actors who have refrained from commenting on the September 18 attack which killed 19 Indian soldiers in Jammu and Kashmir, are helpless about reacting to it.

“Art and artists should not be attached to politics. Pakistani artistes are in a vulnerable position; they are helpless… Keeping in mind that just three months ago, one of Pakistan’s best-known singers, Amjad Sabri, was gunned down by the terrorists,” Swara said on the sidelines of the seventh Jagran Film Festival here on Friday.

“I think the people of Pakistan themselves are also a victim of terrorism,” added the actress who has visited Pakistan twice.
Pakistani actors like Fawad Khan, who have worked in India, are being widely condemned in the country for keeping their comments reserved in slamming the attack on Indian soldiers.

Swara, who is the daughter of well-known strategic analyst C Uday Bhaskar, said: “The entire issue (Uri attack) is very emotional for us. The way the soldiers have been killed is very much shameful. At this moment, the entire country is grief-stuck and fuming as well. This is quite justified.

“We have a responsible government and army. They are doing their work rightfully and we should let them tackle the situation.”
At the Jagran Film Festival, Swara received the Best Actress for “Nil Battey Sannata”, and she was happy about it.

Of late, a lot of actors from Bollywood have spoken about the issue including Salman Khan, Mahesh Bhatt, Saif Ali Khan, Karan Johar and Ranbir Kapoor. However, the controversy doesn’t seem to die anytime soon.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 03 Oct 2016 10:27

Check this paki proxy mouthing the same inane lies of her TSP handlers.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 03 Oct 2016 10:38

Y. Kanan wrote:So far the Paki narrative is winning out because our side has failed to provide any proof of our claimed strikes. It would be a mistake to let Pakistan control the narrative here.

eh? And where according to you, is Paki narrative winning out? Where is your proof that there is actually a winning campaign by a just-out-of-anasthesia paki?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Oct 2016 11:00

partha wrote:GoI has rightly not released any evidence. One of the reasons Pakis are provoking GoI into releasing the evidence of the strike is that they know we will get into endless discussion and analysis of the evidence led by Modi haters in the media like Praveen Swami (who will become SF ops experts overnight) which will take the focus away from terror attacks themselves. That's what happened post Pathankot. Huge distraction.

Agree.

Does no one remember the aftermath of the video release after the Gujarat boat @ sea incident. Diesel flames dont burn like that, etc.

What kind of video are folks expecting given that it was night raid? A lot of firing noise, some flames, a lot of shouting, some silhouette and some IR images and a lot of dark shapes moving about. Will anyone even be able to identify the place from such a video forget the pukis.

Even if the video had a clear shot of a face running into the camera and then going down in a hail of bullets would that prove that he was a baki?

What prevents the Pukies from claiming that any such video was *bollywood* studio production? If anyone thinks that a mere video, no matter what its content or how clear it is, will force Bakis to admit to a cross-border raid are as delusional as the Bakis themselves.

zoverian · Post by **zoverian** » 03 Oct 2016 11:02

Saarc has been canceled .Its official now. The main reason given out by all the members is that the regional environment (terrorism )was not conducive to enable a Saarc summit at this point. This is a huge humiliation for the Pakistan as it was the official host of the summit this time.

Now another major summit is about to happen in India as most Saarc countries will be in India for the BIMSTEC (The Bay of Bengal Initiative for Multi-Sectoral Technical and Economic Cooperation) summit.

We need to remain be extra vigilant in coming days as Pakistan might try to disrupts the same by it proxies to launch few terrorist attack, particularly the city in which BIMSTEC going to held..

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 03 Oct 2016 11:07

pankajs wrote:
partha wrote:GoI has rightly not released any evidence. One of the reasons Pakis are provoking GoI into releasing the evidence of the strike is that they know we will get into endless discussion and analysis of the evidence led by Modi haters in the media like Praveen Swami (who will become SF ops experts overnight) which will take the focus away from terror attacks themselves. That's what happened post Pathankot. Huge distraction.
Agree.

Does no one remember the aftermath of the video release after the Gujarat boat @ sea incident. Diesel flames dont burn like that, etc.

What kind of video are folks expecting given that it was night raid? A lot of firing noise, some flames, a lot of shouting, some silhouette and some IR images and a lot of dark shapes moving about. Will anyone even be able to identify the place from such a video forget the pukis.

What prevents the Pukies from claiming that such a video was studio production?

I think our video is being enhanced by "interviews" from our guest(s) who have been brought back. In due time when the audio and video are upto our satisfaction, it would be launched at an appropriate time to have the maximum impact.

Why waste all the good will in one go?

I wish we translate (sub-title) the video in all major languages (local and foreign) and release

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Oct 2016 11:26

We may have snatched one or more from across the border but that is only speculation as of now. We did bag a couple of guides/facilitators after Uri but before the raid and there was another arrest after the raid. But all of these fellows were nabbed from our side of the border.

Having an unknown fellow on a video taking about the raid is not *conclusive* enough if you really think about it. Only if you can trace him to the village/street/house and have his relatives hold his photo on a video will you be able to nail it down.

Even then the bakis will move the family and reject the proof.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 03 Oct 2016 11:31

^^
Do you think the govt. don't know all that? especially this time? I am pretty sure I either read or heard the someone officially say we have captured alive someone(s) worthwhile. I'll update what I can find. Others, please chime in if you remember.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 03 Oct 2016 11:32

Even the most obtuse khannates of the web forums are saying "yeah right! arent these the same dudes who hid bin Laden and lied to us..."

Things have changed since that downed Atlantique times, when a study-trip was organised for the world press or the brazen "we are not responsible...hold on... I got an incoming call from Taj Colaba" during Mumbai attack time. At that time, nobody cared about India's version or Paki version. But nowadays, everyone likes India's version of "kicking in paki teeth"

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Oct 2016 11:41

Lets go back to the objective.

1. Indians > Most already convinced. NO video proof needed BUT any video will be lapped up without question.
2. World > Haven't seen anyone falling for the Baki line. US/UK/China that have ground intel in Bakistan would by now know *approximately* what did take place. Video is of little use. The rest don't care or don't matter.
3. Bakis > No video will *force* them to accept. Bakis media is releasing their own proof of how the raid, that did not take place, boomeranged on India.

So what use of releasing a video? Who needs convincing?

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 03 Oct 2016 11:45

asgkhan wrote:Pakistani artists are in a vulnerable position, says Swara Bhaskar

http://indianexpress.com/article/entert ... r-3060893/

Swara Bhaskar thinks Pakistani actors who have refrained from commenting on the September 18 attack which killed 19 Indian soldiers in Jammu and Kashmir, are helpless about reacting to it.

“Art and artists should not be attached to politics. Pakistani artistes are in a vulnerable position; they are helpless… Keeping in mind that just three months ago, one of Pakistan’s best-known singers, Amjad Sabri, was gunned down by the terrorists,” Swara said on the sidelines of the seventh Jagran Film Festival here on Friday.

“I think the people of Pakistan themselves are also a victim of terrorism,” added the actress who has visited Pakistan twice.
Pakistani actors like Fawad Khan, who have worked in India, are being widely condemned in the country for keeping their comments reserved in slamming the attack on Indian soldiers.

Swara, who is the daughter of well-known strategic analyst C Uday Bhaskar, said: “The entire issue (Uri attack) is very emotional for us. The way the soldiers have been killed is very much shameful. At this moment, the entire country is grief-stuck and fuming as well. This is quite justified.

“We have a responsible government and army. They are doing their work rightfully and we should let them tackle the situation.”
At the Jagran Film Festival, Swara received the Best Actress for “Nil Battey Sannata”, and she was happy about it.

Of late, a lot of actors from Bollywood have spoken about the issue including Salman Khan, Mahesh Bhatt, Saif Ali Khan, Karan Johar and Ranbir Kapoor. However, the controversy doesn’t seem to die anytime soon.

Huh, Swara Bhaskar is talking of Pakistani artists. Last I heard, Pakistan calls all these Jihadis who kill people in India as "Non State actors". The non state actors from Pakistan are not welcome in India and yes we recognise them for their acting skills. We know that they are quite often PA regulars in Jihadi garb.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 03 Oct 2016 11:46

No convincing needed for Bakis or baki proxies in India.

Videos needs to be released for the yindoos to savor the butt r@pe of the bakis. All those idiots who come out of the woodwork questioning the evidence need to be appropriately labeled as goat lover and done the needfull.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 03 Oct 2016 11:52

All the sarkaar has to do is setup a enquiry commission to see why all these 3rd rate pretenders are towing the paki line. Set loose the ED/DRI/IT guys to check on the source of funding and the frequent trips to dubai and Bakistan.

Immediately they will fall in line.

Hats off to Nana Patekar for his hard hitting response to the roaches support for Baki artists.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 03 Oct 2016 11:56

It has been 'said' that the video has been recorded. It may or may not be for public consumption. The doubters will find reasons to doubt irrespective of quality and content of video.

However, while we are speculating, why not consider a possibility that there could be 'one' video that clearly makes (every)one a believer.

Question - based on what was said, drones and men recorded the video(s). Have we done something like this on a live op before? Or are we breaking new grounds here?