General Indian Military News & Discussions

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deejay
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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby deejay » 02 Oct 2016 21:44

^^^ Shiv Ji, are you sure he could not reason that out himself?

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby shiv » 02 Oct 2016 22:01

deejay wrote:^^^ Shiv Ji, are you sure he could not reason that out himself?

Typically when I write long explanations I write it for dozens of lurkers who will be swayed by such posts and need to be told with some clarity. The actual questioner is of minor importance and what he/she thinks is of little consequence IMO. I always like to recall that over the years - school kids have joined BRF and learned what interests them on here without making even one post for many years - so need to keep them in mind when giving explanations so they learn to think straight with the right info.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby dnivas » 03 Oct 2016 09:40

You are truly a guru.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby AdityaM » 03 Oct 2016 12:27

shiv wrote: But why not soldiers, you might ask? I think if you apply your mind for half a minute you can answer that question. The number of Pakis who cross over as jihadis (and not uniformed soldiers) is enormous. Jihadis and Pakistan soldiers are one and the same, except for uniform and I am sure you know that as a well established BRFite That should tell you how often a Paki comes walking this way.


^ Shiv: Infiltrators from Pak are not the subject of the above discussion, and I am not talking about deliberate violation.
Our soldier "inadvertently" walked over, so I am also looking at their "inadvertent" slips.
So please spare me the supercilious tone.

The ramifications of a civilian walking over & a soldier doing the same and getting caught are different, both for the individual and the country
Also a soldier walking alone is less likely since they patrol in groups (i assume), so for him to lose his way would require more than average circumstances.

deejay: Thanks for the worthless reply and spare me the taunt

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby sarang » 03 Oct 2016 12:39

or may be he is possibly abducted insted of crossed over. :-?

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby Kashi » 03 Oct 2016 12:49

sarang wrote:or may be he is possibly abducted insted of crossed over. :-?


But then the question would be when and where was he abducted from? Do we have RR deployments on the LoC. Do we have any information that around the time when our soldiers crossed the LoC and whooped Baki arse, RR units were deployed nearby to keep an eye out on piglets already on our side? Much has been written about this, including helicopter gunships on standby, but strangely no mention of RR deployment.

The reports that have out are conflicting. Some say he had a tiff with his senior. But then he should have been near LoC to have "inadvertently" crossed over.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby SSharma » 03 Oct 2016 13:04

shiv wrote:
deejay wrote:^^^ Shiv Ji, are you sure he could not reason that out himself?

Typically when I write long explanations I write it for dozens of lurkers who will be swayed by such posts and need to be told with some clarity. The actual questioner is of minor importance and what he/she thinks is of little consequence IMO. I always like to recall that over the years - school kids have joined BRF and learned what interests them on here without making even one post for many years - so need to keep them in mind when giving explanations so they learn to think straight with the right info.


+108
i was one of those school kids who accidentally stumbled upon brf

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby shiv » 03 Oct 2016 14:14

AdityaM wrote:
^ Shiv: Infiltrators from Pak are not the subject of the above discussion, and I am not talking about deliberate violation.
Our soldier "inadvertently" walked over, so I am also looking at their "inadvertent" slips.
So please spare me the supercilious tone.

The ramifications of a civilian walking over & a soldier doing the same and getting caught are different, both for the individual and the country
Also a soldier walking alone is less likely since they patrol in groups (i assume), so for him to lose his way would require more than average circumstances.

deejay: Thanks for the worthless reply and spare me the taunt

Supercilious or not you have certainly displayed far greater clarity in your meaning now. The reason I demand clarity is because innuendo and vagueness are easy to misunderstand. Perhaps I should not delve into what brought out the clarity. The suggestion that you wanted someone to give you information about Pakistanis coming into India was, to my mind so preposterous that I had to check myself from being less kind than I was in my reply.

You wrote
Any information on the number of Pakistani soldiers who may have drifted into indian controlled territory in the last 10 years?


I do not think anyone on BRF is being serious when he asks if no Pakistani has come across in the last 10 years. Frankly that question sounded like an attempt to highlight Indian sloth and incompetence in comparison with Pakistan's implied slickness. Lots of Pakistanis have come across mostly for nefarious purposes. I would be hard put to believe that you don't know that. But if you do know, why ask? This poor Indian soldier may have been on a mission or not. No one is going to tell us.

What you choose to believe is entirely your call. But when you make your thoughts on the issue public, and deem it appropriate to provide clarity only after pressure is applied you can be sure that you will hear other opinions if they exist.
Last edited by shiv on 03 Oct 2016 17:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby deejay » 03 Oct 2016 14:55

AdityaM wrote:...
deejay: Thanks for the worthless reply and spare me the taunt


Oh! you are welcome. :)

The reply was as worthless as your question. It was a possible answer to the question you asked.

Taunts are one way to answer insinuation. (Insinuation definition, an indirect or covert suggestion or hint, especially of a derogatory nature) I am quoting and highlighting a few things from your post for clarity:

AdityaM wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/efforts-on-to-secure-release-of-indian-soldier-in-pak-manohar-parrikar-1469097

Any information on the number of Pakistani soldiers who may have drifted into indian controlled territory in the last 10 years?

With fencing in most places, and a heightened alert following Uri attack, what circumstances can cause a soldier to walk into enemy controlled territory and make a bargaining chip mess, that too on a day when the initiative was with the Indian army.

Sometimes an indian Helicopter lands in Pakistan controlled territory
Sometimes an Indian naval personal gets caught in baluchistan.

I don't understand the stupidity of this all.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby tsarkar » 03 Oct 2016 20:26

Kashi wrote:Do we have RR deployments on the LoC.
No. Regular battalions guard the LoC. RR Battalions man the CI grid.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby AdityaM » 03 Oct 2016 21:27

shiv wrote:
AdityaM wrote:
^ Shiv: Infiltrators from Pak are not the subject of the above discussion, and I am not talking about deliberate violation.
Our soldier "inadvertently" walked over, so I am also looking at their "inadvertent" slips.
So please spare me the supercilious tone.

The ramifications of a civilian walking over & a soldier doing the same and getting caught are different, both for the individual and the country
Also a soldier walking alone is less likely since they patrol in groups (i assume), so for him to lose his way would require more than average circumstances.

deejay: Thanks for the worthless reply and spare me the taunt

Supercilious or not you have certainly displayed far greater clarity in your meaning now. The reason I demand clarity is because innuendo and vagueness are easy to misunderstand. Perhaps I should not delve into what brought out the clarity. The suggestion that you wanted someone to give you information about Pakistanis coming into India was, to my mind so preposterous that I had to check myself from being less kind than I was in my reply.

I am glad that you are able to see some clarity and meaning. You are way more opinionated than you would care to admit.

shiv wrote:You wrote
Any information on the number of Pakistani soldiers who may have drifted into indian controlled territory in the last 10 years?


I do not think anyone on BRF is being serious when he asks if no Pakistani has come across in the last 10 years. Frankly that question sounded like an attempt to highlight Indian sloth and incompetence in comparison with Pakistan's implied slickness. Lots of Pakistanis have come across mostly for nefarious purposes. I would be hard put to believe that you don't know that. But if you do know, why ask? This poor Indian soldier may have been on a mission or not. No one is going to tell us.

What you choose to believe is entirely your call. But when you make your thoughts on the issue public, and deem it appropriate to provide clarity only after pressure is applied you can be sure that you will hear other opinions if they exist.


If you chose to see nefarious intent in those written words, that is entirely your prerogative. Your reading of my statement is faulty, and consequently so is your outrage.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby AdityaM » 03 Oct 2016 22:06

deejay wrote:
AdityaM wrote:...
deejay: Thanks for the worthless reply and spare me the taunt


Oh! you are welcome. :)

The reply was as worthless as your question. It was a possible answer to the question you asked.

Taunts are one way to answer insinuation. (Insinuation definition, an indirect or covert suggestion or hint, especially of a derogatory nature) I am quoting and highlighting a few things from your post for clarity:

AdityaM wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/efforts-on-to-secure-release-of-indian-soldier-in-pak-manohar-parrikar-1469097

Any information on the number of Pakistani soldiers who may have drifted into indian controlled territory in the last 10 years?

With fencing in most places, and a heightened alert following Uri attack, what circumstances can cause a soldier to walk into enemy controlled territory and make a bargaining chip mess, that too on a day when the initiative was with the Indian army.

Sometimes an indian Helicopter lands in Pakistan controlled territory
Sometimes an Indian naval personal gets caught in baluchistan.

I don't understand the stupidity of this all.


"Such inadvertent crossing by Army and civilians are not unusual on either side. They are returned through existing mechanisms," a statement from the Army headquarters read.


While we are told that inadvertent crossing by Army is not unusual, the only 2 in recent memory are the one i already quoted. I could not find any news article about India capturing Paki army person who crossed inadvertently, perhaps its way down the search results and not easy to find.
I asked for any information on the number of such Pakistani errors, cause one is pained to see such error & consequent ramifications befall our own men.

what circumstances can cause a soldier to walk into enemy controlled territory and make a bargaining chip mess, that too on a day when the initiative was with the Indian army.


This was a rhetorical question, somewhat pained. taunts & insinuations do it no good.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby Rahul M » 03 Oct 2016 22:07

all of you, drop this issue.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby shiv » 03 Oct 2016 22:16

If the question was "How porous is the LoC even after fencing?" here is some news
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... IIndiaNews

Thirsty Pakistani boy crosses IB in search of water, BSF returns him to Pak Rangers

The BSF, officials said, took care of Tanveer overnight and kept him at their camp and early on Monday contacted their Pakistani counterparts so that he could be sent back to his village Dhari in the Kasur district of that country.


"Tanveer was handed over to the Rangers at about 11am as per the policy of handing back inadvertent crossers on humanitarian grounds," they said.
Latest Comment


An Indian soldier, Chandu Babulal Chavan, is in Pakistan's custody after he "inadvertently" crossed over last week.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby AdityaM » 03 Oct 2016 22:36

for the last time, i am not asking about civilian cross-overs.
I am talking of Pak military men making this journey. and only inadvertent ones

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby malushahi » 04 Oct 2016 00:24

^^ let me attempt.

1. are you sure there are no p.a. regulars among the infiltrators who cross from the other side just because all of them are all dressed in tanzeemi garb? just because their country sheds no tears when they are shot and buried in indian land? heck they claimed the nli personnel in 1999 were all irregulars who they had nothing to do with. so much for their regulars crossing over. in any event, how much infiltration do you think occurs from india to occupied kashmir that they have no fence on their side? no fence, no patrolling. their regulars sit inside the posts - their only job being to provide observation, tlc, and covering fire to infiltrators. what are the chances of one of their regulars crossing over inadvertently when there is no patrolling? (or no where near as widespread as on the indian side?)

2. you original question makes it look like the fence is on the loc, which is not the case. the fence has been erected 0.5-2.0 kms inside the indian side on an average. it is the area between the fence and loc that is rigorously observed and patrolled. what are the chances that any p.a. regular in uniform who mistakenly crosses over into the indian territory and sees the fence will actually keep walking in its direction rather than putting as much distance between it and himself in as little time as possible? by the same token i hope you will agree that an i.a. chap who has lost his patrolling companions and bearings will walk deeper and deeper into occupied territory in hopes of coming to the fence or an i.a. post. in a deep valley where the fence is halfway to the ridge-line and not visible it is very easy to mistake the pine trees on the occupied side as your own pine trees. the distance from fence to loc is about 1.5 kms in the area where sep chauhan crossed over.

3. to get a better understanding, i highly recommend taking a trip to the nearest "hill-station" and choosing a trail that is undulating, preferably passing through a valley. select an area where there are no obvious place markers like a building or a flowering rhododendron tree. climb down to the brook/stream and indulge in your favorite hobby of searching for that flower, leaf, or butterfly just as a young maratha soldier would look for suspicious stuff after spotting that strange boot-mark. do that for 15 mins and try to come up to the trail you came down from. repeat experience under low/failing light. btw, i would find "oh but i am a civilian and he has been trained for that job" routine a little weak. a 22 yr old kid from dhule who most likely lived at least the first 18-19 years of his life having not seen a feature more than 300 ft high lost in the biggest, baddest mountains? i hope you get the picture.

the chopper that crossed over into occupied j&k near olding can be explained too, but if the explanation above does not cut it, then it is pointless to even attempt explaining that. as to why no paki chopper mistakenly crosses over to the indian side? nanga kya nahayega, kya nichodega.

lastly, there is a lot of distance between loc and faras border. so two very, very different things.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby ramana » 04 Oct 2016 01:05

Surgical strike has revealed the thinking in some members who doubt India.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby shiv » 04 Oct 2016 06:25

A Google search reveals that Pakistanis are right. India is cruel. Every single news item of Pakistanis crossing the border is news of Pakistanis being shot. There is one 2013 news of a Paki who inadvertently crossed into India. He was apparently inadvertently carrying an AK 47 and inadvertently shot at Indian troops. he was inadvertently shot dead.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby SSridhar » 04 Oct 2016 07:28

Syndicate Bank staff ‘thrilled’ to operate battle casualties fund - Vinson Kurian, Business Line

The account details were posted before and several BRfites contributed as well. Let all of us do our bit.


The staff at Syndicate Bank are ‘thrilled’ that their bank has been chosen to maintain and operate an account named ‘Army Welfare Fund Battle Casualties’.

Donations received in the fund will be utilised to provide financial assistance/grant to widows, next of kin or dependants of Army personnel who have lost their lives in battle.
Special relevance

This ‘fits well’ with the current security environment but sits lightly on contributors since they are expected to spare no more than ₹1 per day, amounting to ₹365 per year, sources said.

KS Bhat, All-India Vice-President, Syndicate Bank Staff Association, said that the staff are proud that they get to manage the account designed for such a noble purpose.

“Syndicate Bank is also the right choice since it has been a pioneer of a thrift deposit scheme called Pigmy Deposit introduced 80 years ago to inculcate the habit of savings among the public.”

The bank used to send its agents to the doorsteps of depositors to collect four annas (25 paise), Bhat said.

It had become so popular that many banks would later mimic it under different appellations.

Account details

“In a way, Syndicate Bank deserves the honour of receiving donations under the new Army welfare scheme,” he added, and requested the bank’s management to popularise it.

If 100 crore of the country’s population were to contribute to the fund, it could mop up ₹100 crore per day, ₹3,000 crore per month and ₹36,000 crore per year.

The Army Welfare Fund Battle Casualties account has been opened at Syndicate Bank’s Defence Headquarters Branch, South Block, New Delhi.

The IFSC Code is SYNB0009055 and the account number 90552010165915.

A statement of the Adjutant General’s Branch, Army Welfare Fund Battle Casualties, dated June 23, 2016, explained the specific circumstances leading to the setting up of the account.

It said that ‘post the Siachen tragedy in which 10 Army men lost their lives due to an avalanche, there has been a groundswell of sentiments across the nation towards the contribution of the Army.’

There was also perceived desire of spirited citizens wanting to contribute financially for the welfare of the next of kin of battle casualties.

The issue was debated upon in consultation with the Ministry of Defence, leading to opening of the account ‘to provide financial assistance to next of kin/widows/dependants of battle casualties.’

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby Singha » 04 Oct 2016 10:13

Jaipur: A Jaguar aircraft of Indian Air Force on Monday crashed in Pokhran area of Rajasthan, but both the pilots ejected safely.
The aircraft was on routine training sortie when the incident occurred in the area which is near the Indo-Pak border, defence spokesperson Lt Col Manish Ojha said.
A Court of Inquiry has been ordered, he said.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby shiv » 09 Oct 2016 07:11

Let me ask a rhetorical question - not meant to mock anyone. The question is in two parts
1. India has very nearly the largest armed forces on earth. There are very few single manufacturers who can supply the entire armed forces with one single product - say a single brand rifle or single brand NVG or single brand aircraft. Having multiple models makes sense because of that. It may be different from small sized armed forces - eg Singapore to reduce the variety

2. Every powerful nation on earth makes allies by giving special favours to other nations. Whether those favours are effective or not is moot. The US and Chins have both benefited from paying off and allying with Pakistan at a time when both were scared for the Soviet bear. Why shouldn't India try to pull the US to our side by giving them business?

I realize that there are no straight answers and I can equally post arguments opposing what I have myself asked, But nevertheless I ask.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby Ramu » 10 Oct 2016 03:21

Saar, you don't take US to your side. But US takes you to its side, IF it wants to. Does it want to? I don't think it does based on their foreign policy.

In simple words US foreign policy is translated into just arms sales. If that's the case can we go buy everything in bulk from US apache, m777, f teens, transport planes, ships and bring it to our camp?

No, it doesn't give you freedom to do what you want. The more you buy the more chances for you to get sanctioned at critical times when US doesn't endorse your actions. Thus you can never bring US to your camp but you don't have a choice but to fall into its.

How US runs its foreign policy (arms sales)depends on how it sees you. Make no mistake in understanding how it sees you. When it comes to any third world countries like India, it has only 2 modes. Frenemy or enemy. The view depends on the head of the state.

US sees a country with an assertive leader an an outright enemy. It will supply free arms to anyone willing to bring down that guy. Free air dropped weapons to everyone just enough to create civil war.

A country with a despot like India during UPA or Pakistan is a frenemy. You are given arms and ammunition just enough to stay in power. Arms sales is mainly used to deplete your resources and keep you contained.

US has understood that Modi is such a threat way back in 2002. Thus indirectly the entire India.

So, if you want to run your own foreign policy, try supplying small arms and ammunition to baloch, uiyghurs, Vietnam, Taiwan, Yemen instead of getting a gripen or f teen or xyz.
A supplied .303 with enough bullets to the right hands has a better potential to achieve your strategic goals than a bought gripen. You can transfer an entire production line but it still achieves next to nothing.

But the real challenge for Modi is to achieve this without getting eliminated like former NAM countries (Syria, Egypt, Libya). I see Modi is trying too hard to continue as a frenemy to US just like UPA.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby shiv » 10 Oct 2016 07:09

Ramu wrote:Saar, you don't take US to your side. But US takes you to its side, IF it wants to. Does it want to? I don't think it does based on their foreign policy.

Sorry but this is the same "America is God" lecture I heard from my classmates, relatives and friends who went to America from the early 70s onwards. Until recently, when shuddh Mysusru coffee smells are wafting into Amreeka. Without breaking out of this box and accepting that there may be new Gods that are being created while old Gods scramble for help and look stupid as the US has done in the way it handled Russia, China and Pakistan in the past we are only going to be stuck in the same groove

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby Atmavik » 10 Oct 2016 07:53

Question regarding radars. Is it possible to detect the type of aircraft on radar?

I am asking this in relation to the recent Paki fizzliya flying f16s over slumabad. Let's say we fly Hawks or IJTs out of forward air bases will the Paf put f16s in the air ? The avg per hour cost would be $7 to 24 k. They cannot afford to keep doing this.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 10 Oct 2016 21:02

The IAF can fly anything from any forward airbase. The PAF can't do jack. As long as our birds don't cross into Pakistani airspace, their F-16s can't do anything. Attempting to shoot down IAF jets in Indian airspace is tantamount to war. The PAF cannot afford to do that.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby Kashi » 11 Oct 2016 06:15

Rakesh wrote:The IAF can fly anything from any forward airbase. The PAF can't do jack. As long as our birds don't cross into Pakistani airspace, their F-16s can't do anything. Attempting to shoot down IAF jets in Indian airspace is tantamount to war. The PAF cannot afford to do that.


I thought there was some agreement on not flying sorties within 5 km of the international border, I could be wrong though, since Google chacha is of no help.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby Karthik S » 11 Oct 2016 06:31

Kashi wrote:I thought there was some agreement on not flying sorties within 5 km of the international border, I could be wrong though, since Google chacha is of no help.


Would that be for sustained flight? We can play cat and mouse game wherein the planes can go near the border (say 1-2 km) and immediate return. IIRC, these kind of games were played during the cold war by both sides.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby ramana » 11 Oct 2016 06:37

Atmavik, Yes the signed a CBM after 1965 war that no planes near IB. I don't recall the distance. It was more than 5 km.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby manjgu » 11 Oct 2016 06:38

i think its 10 km IIRC

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby shiv » 11 Oct 2016 07:04

Atmavik wrote:Question regarding radars. Is it possible to detect the type of aircraft on radar?

I am asking this in relation to the recent Paki fizzliya flying f16s over slumabad. Let's say we fly Hawks or IJTs out of forward air bases will the Paf put f16s in the air ? The avg per hour cost would be $7 to 24 k. They cannot afford to keep doing this.


It is technically possible to identify aircraft from radar signatures but not trivial. But even without any fancy stuff A "large fast moving object" could be an Su-30. A small slow moving. low flying object could be a Cheetah helicopter. It may not be easy to tell if a Hawk is flying rather than a MiG 21

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby Sid » 11 Oct 2016 07:43

^^
There are decoys which can mimic the signature, airspeed and maneuver of a bigger aircrafts. Like ADM-160B MALD. But you cannot make an AJT mimic a Mig or LCA.

But do we or the PAF have this capability, to identify bogeys at long range, is not clear.

During MMRCA era IAF folks directly asked this question to folks on Boeing pavellion and were given a simple "its classified" answer.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 12 Oct 2016 01:09

Yes, there is an agreement not to fly with a certain km of the border...but that still does not stop either air force from trying. The Atlantique incident, UAVs being shot down are examples of it. In certain instances it is deliberately done, to test the other side's response time. All cat and mouse games.

IAF MiG-25s - when they were in service - would fly over Pakistani airspace. Every now and then a sonic boom would be sounded and the PAF would wave a white flag.

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby shiv » 12 Oct 2016 10:11

Sid wrote:^^
There are decoys which can mimic the signature, airspeed and maneuver of a bigger aircrafts. Like ADM-160B MALD. But you cannot make an AJT mimic a Mig or LCA.

That is a very general statement. If a radar at the limit of its range sees a small to medium sized object flying at 600 kmph at 10,000 feet it will not tell you if it is Hawk AJT, MiG 21 or Tejas because any of them could be doing exactly that. Unless there is a signal processing algorithm that watches the same signal for a while and compares the signal with previous records of proven and identified AJT, MiG 21, Tejas etc that radar will say nothing about the identity of such an object

Only a radar + signal processing and identification can do that. You do recall that Amreeki F-15s mistook MiG 21 hiding behind Su-30 as Su-30 and they jumped out of their pants when MiG 21s suddenly joined the game. Two MiG 21 flying very close together may look like one Su-30 to a radar

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Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby ShauryaT » 18 Oct 2016 10:45

For those interested in military history, the link has a listing of all the major works on all of our wars.

Mods: Could not find the military history thread and in general, there are so many threads these days that it is a tiring exercise and search does not help.

A Historiographic Analysis
of the Military History of Post-Independent India -- Jaideep Chanda


Conclusion
Proactive and deeply introspective measures are a must to generate
intellectual capability in the officers of the Indian Army. The study of military
history beyond the obvious requirements of passing examinations, must be
encouraged and made mandatory to be able to groom a crop of officers
with the depth and understanding of military matters from the strategic
perspective.

Implementation of the recommendations made above will cost the
exchequer to some extent. However, this has to be seen as an investment
in the intellectual capital of the officers of the Indian Army. While there is
no dearth of outstanding officers in the Army, there seems to be a serious
shortage of officers who understand the role of the Army through the prism
of national security. Thus, for the overall holistic development of the Army,
there is a real requirement of raising the intellectual threshold of the officer
cadre in the Army. The study of military history beyond the need for passing
examinations is an essential step towards this goal.

There is an acute shortage of civilian military analysts who are essential
to bring objectivity and the civilian perspective to military matters which can
only serve to enrich the quality of decision-making and introspection in the
armed forces.


Given the state of civil-military relations, it is understandable that the
ministry level recommendations can take time. However, the Army level
recommendations need to be pushed through immediately since the bulk of
the change will have to be brought about by the Army itself.

Most mature and developed Armies have dedicated strategic think-tanks
which are backed by well-established military history departments, both
within the armed forces and in the civilian domain. However, the one thing
that emerges clearly from the American misadventure in Iraq is that no
matter how much intellectual capacity a nation has, the propensity to make
major strategic errors such as the one the US committed in Iraq, remains.

Thus, while the requirement for India to develop the study of military
history for the larger aim of intellectually equipping its Army officers is
paramount, it must also attempt to ensure that the civilian counterparts
remain equal stakeholders in this venture. The current civilian-military
disconnect must not be allowed to continue.
Military scholars must
always realise what military history can do for them. However, even
more important is the need for them to understand what military history
cannot do.

In conclusion, it is evident that the problems being faced by the Indian
Army are not unique, neither are they insurmountable. It is hoped that
the essence of the recommendations of this paper is taken to its logical
conclusion by the stakeholders i.e. the military, the academic world and the
civilian national security leadership of the nation.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20451
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: General Indian Military News & Discussions

Postby Philip » 18 Oct 2016 12:05

Pak planning to attack Indian oil installations.

http://defencenews.in/article/Indian-Oi ... Radar-8788
Indian Oil installations are on Pakistan's Terror Radar
Tuesday, October 18, 2016
By: ET

Indian oil installations are on Pakistan's radar. The Intelligence Bureau has advised the oil ministry to step up safety and information shield at important energy installations after it intercepted a conversation in which a Pakistani spy was heard extracting information from an oil industry executive.

Since the September 18 terror attack in Uri and the retaliatory surgical strikes by the Indian Army on terror camps across the Line of Control in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, there have been fears of an escalation of conflict on both sides of the border prompting defence forces and intelligence agencies to be on high alert.

IB recently intercepted a conversation in which a Pakistani operative, posing as an officer of India's external intelligence agency, the Research & Analysis Wing, engaged on phone an executive managing a sensitive hydrocarbon pipeline in Rajasthan and sought finer details about the facility, sources with direct knowledge of the matter said.

IB has warned that several Pakistani spies are making pseudonymous calls from across the border as well as within India to executives at oil installations to extract details, sources said. It suggested that oil industry executives be sensitised so they do not end up sharing vital information.

An oil ministry spokesman said the home ministry handles internal security matters and will take appropriate action. A spokesman for Indian Oil Corp said the country's largest refiner has sensitised its officials and security personnel at refineries in North India in this regard.

Blowing up a pipeline or damaging a refinery can cause long-term harm by triggering energy shortage in some regions besides the loss of lives and infrastructure.

Installations in Rajasthan, Gujarat and Punjab, which share their border with Pakistan, are always seen as the most vulnerable to enemy attacks. In the past too, India's top refineries — Reliance Industries' 60-million-tonne per annum refining complex, the world's largest, Essar's 20-million-tonne plant in Gujarat, and HPCL-Mittal's 9-million-tonne refinery in Punjab — have faced terror threats although they have not been attacked. Indian Oil Corp also has a 14-million-tonne refinery in Gujarat. Together, these four facilities constitute about 45% of India’s refining capacity.

India's biggest onshore oil field, which accounts for a quarter of the country's crude oil production, is located in the border district of Barmer in Rajasthan. Cairn India operates this field as well as a pipeline that carries crude to refineries.

The Central Industrial Security Force guards most oil refineries in the country. Pipelines are usually more vulnerable as they aren't constantly watched, and most companies do not employ very sophisticated technologies to ensure safety.

Attacking oil installations serves terror groups' bigger agenda to cripple the Indian economy that has been growing at the fastest pace among all major economies in the world.


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