Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

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Gagan
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Gagan »

X post
saurav_jha wrote:Pakistani Ko barbaad karein fauji generals aur theek kare Nawaz Sharif? – Pervez Rasheed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-kZL7U9m2c
There is a tussle going on between Nawaz vs Raheel and the the fauji cronies.
Nawaz has tried every trick in the book to ensure Raheel fades away in perpetuity into retirement.
Raheel is determined to be the great Field Marshal.

Sooner or later, the fall out from the Srugical Strikes will be directed at Nawaz by the fauj. These guys are trying to take steps to try and prevent that.
They probably won't succeed. The Fauj has the ISI, ISPR, and the media + mullahs on their side, who have spent the better part of 2 years running an unending propaganda against Nawaz.

Who knows, maybe one of the items in Mushahid's agenda was to test US ideas on a full fleged coup, vs a soft coup with a change in govt to a national unity government with extension to Raheel.

But as the dust settles in Pakistan, there will be a change in government - One of the Sharif's will have to go.
Gagan
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Gagan »

All gurus and readers of BRF.
I don't hear a peep out of the 3.5 friends as of today. Don't know what is happening behind the scenes.
But my formulation is that there are actually 3.5+1 friends of La La Land.

Who is the most vocal of all these today, on this day and age hain ji?
The +1 friend, the Indian jaichands who have kept Pakistan alive, the ones who are primarily responsible for and have encouraged ==, the ones who have ensured that the J&K issue festered and was kept alive.

Pakistan does not have 3.5 friends, they have 3.5+1 friends.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by khan »

James B wrote:#BREAKING: PM house rejects news published by English journal regarding security meeting

https://twitter.com/CapitalTV_News/stat ... 5358290945
All this useless talk in their "English journals" aside, if they shut down (or even curb) their Jihadi Machine, there will be such blowback, that it will be hard for anyone to miss.

And ultimately, I don't think Modi Govt is stupid enough to take worthless articles, sourced anonymously as some kind of assurance from Pakistan that they will do anything.

Modi has done more than his share of peace-nicking - and is at a point where if terror doesn't stop, warmongering is perfectly justifiable.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by venug »

India-Pakistan border to be sealed by December 2018: Rajnat
[url]hhttp://www.rediff.com/news/report/india-pakist ... 161007.htm[/url]

If so, can we still do surgical strikes? or does it mean fencing will be 100% effective hence no need to do surgical strikes?
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by amohan2001 »

shiv wrote:
zoverian wrote:Peace in war-torn Afghanistan only via Kashmir, Pakistan tells US

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 735495.cms
:rotfl: If I don't like X but can't do much I will keep slapping Y till Z helps me deal with X

This is blackmail by definition
Peace in Kashmir Only via Pakistan
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by harish_ch »

venug wrote: If so, can we still do surgical strikes?
It is our fence Sirji. We can open and close as per our needs :wink: .
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Karthik S »

venug wrote:India-Pakistan border to be sealed by December 2018: Rajnat
[url]hhttp://www.rediff.com/news/report/india-pakist ... 161007.htm[/url]

If so, can we still do surgical strikes? or does it mean fencing will be 100% effective hence no need to do surgical strikes?
Well, hope our drones will do surgical strikes in 2018.
Gagan
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Gagan »

Border, not LOC or AGPL
Border is till Jammu in J&K.

The pakis are clever by half. The IB is well defined into J&K upto Jammu. So the pakis crapped in their shalwars and now call the IB in J&K as 'working boundary'
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Bheeshma »

Balochi freedom fighters have been busy..

http://www.dawn.com/news/1288604/six-de ... alochistan

QUETTA: Two coordinated blasts targeting railway tracks hit near the Rawalpindi-bound Jaffar Express Friday, killing at least six people and leaving 18 others injured, railway officials said.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Y. Kanan »

venug wrote:If so, can we still do surgical strikes?
Fences don't impede our Pinaka or Smerch MLRS, Brahmos missiles, airstrikes, drones, etc. I highly doubt we'd be sending commandos over on foot. If that really did happen last week, it was a one-off thing that only skirted disaster thanks to the enemy being completely surprised. It would be too risky to try that again. Standoff strikes are probably the only recourse now, which is fine.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Falijee »

Waziristan Tribal Leader Assassinated In Afghanistan
A Pashtun leader who had questioned Pakistani military operations in his North Waziristan homeland has been assassinated in southeastern Afghanistan, where he had been living in exile for more than two years.

Afghan officials said Malik Mohammad Omar Khan Wazir was killed inside a guesthouse adjacent to his house in southeastern Khost Province late on October 5.

Provincial spokesman Mubariz Mohammad Zadran said Wazir was killed by unknown assailants who escaped after the assassination.
The middle-aged tribal leader was a known critic of the Pakistani military offensive in North Waziristan.

“I was never a terrorist or a member of the Taliban, and I never sheltered any foreigners, but still Pakistan forced us to abandon our home and seek shelter here,” he told Radio Mashaal. “This is why [Pakistani] Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif] should apologize to us instead of expecting us to apologize.”

In recent months, Pakistani authorities have been asking exiled North Waziristan civilians in Khost to promptly return to their homeland.

But Malik Wazir opposed the conditions Islamabad has attached to helping facilitate their return.
Locals accuse Islamabad of failing to investigate most of the assassinations in FATA
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Prem »

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Falijee
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Falijee »

Exclusive: Act against militants or face international isolation, civilians tell military
Cyril Almeida — Updated about 9 hours ago


Poster - Boy Of Paki Fauj - LAL TOPI - aka- Zahid Hamid is now threatening Columnist Cyril Almeda of " A Hamid Mir " if he does not toe the official script !
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Amber G. »

Hope brf admins allow this post: For US Citizens:

The presidential debate is scheduled this Sunday and the moderators have agreed to consider including the top 30 questions voted by the public. If you think it is worthwhile, please vote so that an important question, some of us framed, moves up.

There are few similar questions, for a particular "ally" of US which takes US's money and kills ours ( US as well as India) soldiers. How long will we be stupid enough to support this?

There are a few questions submitted regarding Pakistan - I will like to see them merged, and put in a "politically correct way' so that it can be put as a question.

Question and a direct link to vote is posted below, I am happy to say that the question is doing quite well and has a realistic chance to be asked. (Please Register, with your own name and vote only if you are a US citizen keeping the honesty - we only want real votes - besides it is already up ).

The question to be asked to both Clinton and Trump is:
Why do we continue to provide aid to countries that are obviously NOT our allies

I can see NO reason to give my tax dollars to countries that are NOT our allies. The classic example is Pakistan, which blatently hid Osama Bin Ladin within a mile of their military academy..
Link for the site:
https://presidentialopenquestions.com/
If you do not have an account, please register (top right hand button). You may have to verify that you are not a robot.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Prem »

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Philip »

Media reports quoting intel sources say that the Paki handlers are getting v.frustrated about scale of terror strikes ,urging them to "do something big ".Hurriyat in decline,attempts to hit our bases increase.Paki military have NOT learned their lesson and are determined to hit us v.hard.We have to plan and prepare for further covert and overt action to hit Pak even harder.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Gagan »

Falijee wrote:Exclusive: Act against militants or face international isolation, civilians tell military
Cyril Almeida — Updated about 9 hours ago


Poster - Boy Of Paki Fauj - LAL TOPI - aka- Zahid Hamid is now threatening Columnist Cyril Almeda of " A Hamid Mir " if he does not toe the official script !
Falijee
Please post a link to a video if there is any
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Falijee »

Gaganji:
This should suffice as "evidence" !
[url=
Zaid Hamid
‏@ZaidZamanHamid

#BanDawnNews
Cyril almeda, another Hamid Mir the bloody snake...deserve to be arrested under NAP & grilled for his handlers waging this war.
][/url]
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Primus »

arun wrote:
vijayk wrote:WOW! Every needs to watch it and spread it on WhatsApp

……….{Video Snipped}………..
The full video recording of Atlantic Council meeting from which Senge H Sering’s blistering attack on the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan is extracted:

Senge Sering comes in at around 1h16 Min mark. The Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s self appointed “Mandela”, Mushahid Hussain Syed and Shazra Mansab cannot have enjoyed that tongue lashing.

Also check out around 57 Min mark for Ahmar Mustikhan striking a blow for freedom of Punjabi Occupied Balochistan:





Meanwhile PTI article titled “A thief in Gilgit cant be friend in Kashmir: Activist” on Senge H Sering’s blistering attack on the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan follows. Article also covers Ahmar Mustikhan’s assault :

PTI
I sat through the entire video (slow day in the office last night).

What a farce it is. Who would have the stupidity to focus only on one side's perspective on such a contentious topic? I searched their site, there has never been a session on India's POV.

The moderator was a wimp, completely ineffective and useless. More concerned with keeping his fake American accent going.

The Paki RAPE is classic Paki. As is his wingmate. I sometimes wonder if the Pakis suffer from a Societal Schizophrenic Syndrome. Severely paranoid and completely delusional. Their delusions have become 'fixed' over the years and no amount of reality check or proofs to the contrary will have any effect.

The 'Senator' starts off with praising Allah - but does it in English without directly mentioning the word, fools nobody IMHO. He then proceeds with a long winded tale packed with lies but oh so cleverly articulated that the average punter would be easily taken in. From a highly exaggerated opinion of himself (typical of all such types) and then of Porkistan in general (also classic) to going on about how everything is equal-equal. If there are human right violations in Balochistan, why, there are also white cops in the US killing black men. It was always Porkistan who led the region and India who scuttled all progress towards peace including Siachen and Kashmir. How Nehru did an about turn on China in 1963 etc etc.

The Porkis are masters at telling lies and when caught, repeating them again without giving the other side a chance to say anything. When asked about Burhan Wani by the guy from the World Hindu Council, he retorts with 'some Indians extoll Nathuram Godse'. The moderator then does not allow a rebuttal by the WHC person.

If you allow people with a specific agenda to speak nothing but lies in a public forum, there should be a mechanism for these to be refuted or at least pointed out. There was no such option here, although the guy from Gilgit did make some good points.

The camera never showed the audience, it would have been nice to know if there were any Americans present and if so how they reacted to all the nonsense spoken about the US.

I believe this was a staged show, managed by people with obviously anti-India interests. Not worth speculation. It is all business as usual. However, what one gets to see first hand is how the Porkis manage to fool the gullible Americans with suave, well-articulated liars who can spin a tale any which way to suit their purpose.

India, IMHO is severely lacking in the PR department, relying instead on it's honest, straight and transparent behavior. In this game it is all about perception and on the International arena, appearances do make a huge difference.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Gagan »

A few things to remember
1. No one is going to touch Md Saeed, or Masood Azhar in Pakistan.
There were assasination attempts on Mushy after the Lal Masjid op. All the faujis & civilians are mindful of that. Faujis have to retire some day right?
2. Terrorism as an industry is flourishing in Pakistan! Any attempts to slow it down or even talk about wrapping it up will result in a very harsh response from the Jihadi groups. Again the faujis and the civvies know that.
Now someone leaked the details of the meeting between the ISI & the civvies of 2 days ago, where the civvies were wondering aloud as to why the fauj protects the Jihadis and why is Md Saeed free. I'm willing to bet, that the ISI leaked the details, now the civvies are in trouble with the jihadi groups. The ISI walas sweetly asked the civvies to arrest anyone they liked, and the fauj won't say anything. Yeah right! :mrgreen:

Nothing is going to come off this. In another month it will start snowing in J&K and the mountain passes will close till May-June, by which time, the Jihadi groups will have trained fresh cannon fodder.
But what will they do all winter specially after the Jhapad they just got?

As soon as the ringing in their ears stops, they'll start planning things for India's mainland. Modi ji & Doval ji must game a response to this and be prepared.

With Raheel's retirement around the corner, everyone needs to be careful, specially Nawaz. That guy won't leave peacefully. Raheel will prolly want to retire in glory, if he decides to retire. Either he will do a dhamaka in Islamabad or try to do one in India.

India MUST NOT decrease the pressure on these guys at any cost. This really needs to be taken all the way. We have to give peace a chance ...
Last edited by Gagan on 08 Oct 2016 07:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by jash_p »

shiv » 07 Oct 2016 12:07 pm

zoverian wrote:
Peace in war-torn Afghanistan only via Kashmir, Pakistan tells US

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 735495.cms

:rotfl: If I don't like X but can't do much I will keep slapping Y till Z helps me deal with X

This is blackmail by definition
Basically Pakis are threatening to Uncle either help us getting Kashmir from India or else we will help Haqanis to kill NATO and USA personnel in Afghanistan.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Rajdeep »

jash_p wrote:
shiv

This is blackmail by definition
Basically Pakis are threatening to Uncle either help us getting Kashmir from India or else we will help Haqanis to kill NATO and USA personnel in Afghanistan.
And on American soil , considering that the last three terrorist attacks , San Bernardino, Orlando and New York all have paki connection.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Amber G. »

Primus wrote: ... However, what one gets to see first hand is how the Porkis manage to fool the gullible Americans with suave, well-articulated liars who can spin a tale any which way to suit their purpose.

India, IMHO is severely lacking in the PR department, relying instead on it's honest, straight and transparent behavior. In this game it is all about perception and on the International arena, appearances do make a huge difference.
May be it's a case of glass 99% full vs 1% empty but I don't think too many of us "gullible Americans" are fooled.
Just one example: This is one of the US congressman's statement. (I have distributed to many in my network and it is getting good response)
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard Statement on Recent Terrorist Attack in Kashmir

Washington, DC—U.S. Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard (HI-02) released the following statement in response to the terrorist attack in Kashmir last month:

“Pakistan has continued to allow terrorist organizations to operate within their borders, moving across borders and unchecked, allowing access into India. Most recently, there was another attack along the Line of Control on yet another Indian military camp in Kashmir; this, just after another attack that killed 19 Indian soldiers only two weeks ago. This is deeply troubling.
“People within the Pakistani government continue to provide tacit and overt support for terrorism. This is not new—this pattern of attacks has been occurring now for the past 15 years, and it must end. That’s why I’ve continued working in Congress to cut back U.S. assistance for Pakistan and increase pressure on Pakistan to stop this violence. In the past, the U.S. government took steps to increase pressure on Pakistan, and it’s time to revisit that approach. The Pakistan government must fully cooperate in the investigation of these attacks, take clear, verifiable actions to put an immediate stop to these cross border attacks, and prosecute all of those responsible. We stand in solidarity with India in the face of these attacks and will continue to work together in this fight against terrorism.”


Here is a link, if you want to support Tulsi Gabbard:
https://www.votetulsi.com/petition/kashmir
Virtually every influential leader I have talked, Pak is getting zero takers for their con. I will not be too pessimistic about India's lobbying capabilities. Cheers!
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by arun »

arun wrote:
Various earlier posted stuff on BRF for background.

The Video with a hat tip to Narad :

CNN-NEWS18 SPEAKS TO SP OF MIRPUR IN POK

The story in text:

Surgical Strikes: Despite Days of Doctoring by Pakistan, Here's Proof From Across LoC

The Full Text of CNN TV 18’s conversation with Ghulam Akbar, Superintendent of Police (Special Branch) of the Mirpur Range in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir:

Surgical Strikes: Full Text of Conversation That Exposed Pakistan
Very interesting and significant that the CNN-TV18 story linked above where CNN TV18 has disclosed that their journalist Manoj Gupta had conned Ghulam Akbar, Superintendent of Police (Special Branch) of the Mirpur Range in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir into confirming India’s post-Uri croos Loc Boots on the Ground Surgical Strike by pretending to be Akbar’s (fictitious?) superior IG Mushtaq, has not been mentioned in any English language newspaper in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan despite the passage of some 48 hours even if only to debunk CNN TV18’s story. Thus no mention of this news in Dawn, The News, Jang’s Nation, Daily Times or Express Tribune.

The Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Punjabi Dominated Military of the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic certainly have the ability, even during times the Islamic Republic is ostensibly run by civilians, to throttle any story that shows the Uniformed Jihadi’s to have lied to her civilian citizens.
The Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Ministry of Foreign affairs claims that person whom CNN TV18 recorded is not Ghulam Akbar, SP Special Branch, Mirpur Range, Pakistan Occupied Kashmir.

No mention of this denial in Dawn, The News, Jang’s Nation, Daily Times or Express Tribune as well:
Indian TV channel affiliate of CNN airs fake interview, editor impersonates as IG Punjab, Pakistan

(2016-10-06) CNN News 18 Global Exclusive, an Indian affiliate of CNN International, has aired a forged interview of SP Special Branch AJK, Mr Ghulam Akbar, in which he has allegedly confirmed India's surgical strike. The Reporter impersonated himself as Inspector General Police Punjab.

SP Ghulam Akbar has categorically denied having spoken over phone and that it is not even his voice on the recording run by the said Indian TV channel. It is highly regrettable that the said Indian TV channel, affiliated to a world renowned media house CNN, indulged in an unethical and fraudulent act.

Pakistan strongly denounces Indian media's despicable act of fraud of airing of a fake program aimed at twisting and fabricating stories for domestic political consumption. This is a clear indication that certain quarters in India are desperate to prove Indian false claim of surgical strike by hook or by crook.

We hope that CNN would take up the matter very seriously with the affiliate Indian TV channel and initiate action against the channel, as not doing so will be regarded as directly owning to this unethical and manipulative act. We reserve the right to take necessary legal action against the said TV channel.

Islamabad
06 October 2016
From here:

Clicky
Last edited by arun on 08 Oct 2016 10:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by svinayak »

arun wrote:
The full video recording of Atlantic Council meeting from which Senge H Sering’s blistering attack on the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan is extracted:

Russia, Russia , Puk Puk Puk
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by pankajs »

Primus wrote:What a farce it is. Who would have the stupidity to focus only on one side's perspective on such a contentious topic? I searched their site, there has never been a session on India's POV.
I haven't watched the video but my comments are based on what I have read here and on the net.

As the title of the talk/presentation clearly states this was Baki pov on Kashmir. Did India make a similar request and was it denied? I believe out diplomacy is more at the policy makers level.

1. Americans know the Baki proclivities well enough but they have their own cost-benefit calculation which is different from ours.
2. There are interests inside and outside the US establishment that are clearly anti-Indian but the pro-Indian interests far far out outnumber/out-influence the anti-Indian interests. That does not mean that the Bakis are totally shut out.
3. If it was stage managed why were the known Baki baiters allowed inside?
4. Bakis can spin fairy tales but those don't sell that well anymore among the policy makers. The mangos don't care beyond burger and beer.
5. While the public PR is lacking Indians have been fairly good where it matters most i.e with policy makers. We don't realize that because most of GOI's effort is away from the public but focused on the policy makers.
5a. Susan Rice's statement after her talk with AD after our cross-border raid.
5b. Check out the official responses from around the globe on Kashmir or the cross-border Indian action.
5c. One Baki daily has this report lamenting the pushback faced by the 22 special envoys deployed by the Bakis on Kashmir. It seems invariably the Baki envoys were asked about halfpig seed and his recent antics. There was a specific example of France. My guess is that Indians have claimed *exclusive* worldwide distribution right for video and translation of halfpig's speeches.

And what a brilliant strategy! You insult the fellow whose help you want right in his home. That itself speaks louder than anything the Americans have said or done. I may be wrong but what do I read from that?
1. Bakis are unable to sell their story and hence the public angst.
2. It was the only platform made available to them so they use it to vent their spleen against India and the US itself.
3. The level of frustration can be gauged from the fact that they publicly berated the country they are wooing to help them on their mission.
3a. Regan was a jihadi.
3b. American is a declining power and Bakis will link up with the Russia-China-Iran axis.

Sure the Bakis are getting some *time* but are they getting any love? I don't know what other see but I see wailing and flailing and generally spreading stink all around.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Gagan »

Mushaid hussy is a slimeball. He thinks he's smooth talking, and too clever by half.
Looks like the baloch, gilgit-baltistanis, and the massa diplomats triple teamed the Paki delegation to the US.
Hence the inner pakistaniyat came out in public.

These guys are masters of shooting themselves in the foot.
1. China is their new master, but the pak fauj actively sponsors terrorism against them in xinjiang. U can hear talk show ex faujis say this!
2. They have practically lived on American taxpayer dole, yet they pushed Taliban to go kill american soldiers, hosted Al Qaida in Pakistan to attack the west.
3. Live on India's largesse with water from J&K, yet sponsor terrorism there and in indian cities. All of India's goodwill from the Indua water treaty, to releasing 93,000 pows, and many many down the line amounted to nothing for these guys. Really glad that there is a GoI that really says and believes in reciprocity in Delhi for a change.
4. When Iranian President Rabbani recently visited them, Raheel Sharif, the pakjabi dolt, who doesn't know the first letter of diplomacy, he along with his fauji biraderen went on a diatribe about how they were sunnis and yet actually favoured Iran wrt KSA, and Iran does not respect Pakistan's leadership position. ISPR followed this up with a series of tweets that so offended Rabbani and his team that they were literally wanting to cut their visit short.
5. The pak establishment, again under Raheel Sharif, made that fateful decision about not joining the KSA vs Yemen fight, further angering their princes. They wanted money & diplomatic favours on top of it for support. China and Pakland, under US pressure didn't want to share the bum with KSA. The result, the Gulf states know, Pakistan is china's pilla (puppy), they probably know the truth about Pakistan's bum mirage. Then they delayed allowing the UAE princes from hunting Bustards in Sindh which those brats do every year.

This Raheel Sharif has really damaged Pakistan diplomatically, Pakistan's never been so isolated diplomatically. The terrorism card has outlived its usefulness, yet they just can't let it go!
I say give him an extension. He is RAW's best asset in Pindi
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Cosmo_R »

@PankajS^^^"There are interests inside and outside the US establishment that are clearly anti-Indian but the pro-Indian interests far far out outnumber/out-influence the anti-Indian interests. That does not mean that the Bakis are totally shut out."

The moment LM gets the go-ahead for the F-16s, watch a shutout being pitched. The MIC will line up to push India's POV. IT's what happened in 2005 on the nuke deal. Every god forsaken Veterans of Foreign Wars outpost in TX wanted to ask John Cornyn (Sen.) about the 'nook deal' and whether he was for it (a good thing). LM had been at work.
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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Peregrine »

What are we thinking?

Our national security policy is India-centric. It is with India that we have fought wars and it is the sanctity and security of our eastern border that keeps our security forces up at night. Even though we now have a generation of battle-hardened generals who have fought indigenous terror groups over the last decade, India remains the paramount enemy within our security mindset. Before we overcame our denial regarding the TTP, its identity and intentions post-APS, the dominant narrative was that the TTP and ilk are essentially Indian proxies.

Our nuclear policy is India-centric too. We have said to the world that we would support a nuclear weapons convention but cannot give up nukes so long as India has them. Our doctrine of nuclear deterrence rests on a first use policy – if India initiates a conventional war with us, we will be first to drop the bomb. As India began working on cold start, we got busy building tactical nuclear weapons. In other words, we are telling the world that even in case of a limited war we might end up using our smaller nuclear bombs.

Without getting into whether India conducted ‘surgical strikes’ in Kashmir, as it claims, what if it carries out strikes targeting JuD in Muridke or JeM in Bahawalpur? JuD and JeM are recognised as terror organisations around the world and are banned in Pakistan too. Will Pakistan drop a tactical nuclear bomb on India if India attacks a terror outfit in Pakistan that it alleges has perpetrated an attack in India? In war-gaming such scenarios, have we begun to forget how dangerously crazy the idea of using a nuke really is for Pakistan and its future?

Is it Indian pugnacity and our mutual hatred that prevents us from rationally analysing how harmful the continued existence of JuDs and JeMs is for Pakistan itself? Let us recall the OBL incident or the droning of Mullah Mansour. Did their presence on Pakistani soil help enhance our security? Did their being taken out by the US help augment our sovereignty? While India is no US, is it our considered view, purely from a security perspective, that the existence of JuD or JeM enhances our state security and promotes Pakistan’s interests?

What is our policy on Kashmir-focused jihadi groups? Are they state assets? If so, why is that? Is it because we think that perpetration of attacks by them in India will encourage India to liberate Kashmir? Let’s objectively analyse this from the state’s perspective? Will any number of terror attacks by Baloch separatists encourage our state to pay heed to their demands? The state’s response will always be to use force to crush such terrorists. If anything, cross-border jihadism is now hurting the Kashmir cause instead of helping it.

Do we think that using non-state actors to keep the Indian military engaged is a cost-effective and intelligent strategy to continue to bleed India? Let us think again. One, the age of non-state actors as assets is over. Non-state actors pose the foremost threat to the security of the most powerful states of the world and so nurturing or patronising them is now taboo. There now exists a global consensus against the employment of non-state actors to promote national security objectives, even if the idea was kosher at an earlier time.

And two, while our non-state actors might have bled India, they have bled us more. Other than loss of life, existence of non-state actors enables India to paint us black before the world. Our initial defence against accusations of being terror patrons was that the US conceived the idea in the 80s and installed jihadi factories in our backyard and now we are left holding the bag. When we agreed to help eradicate them as part of the US-led war on terror, the world was patient, till it thought that we were running with the hare and hunting with the hounds.

For the last few years our strongest argument has been that we are the biggest victims of terror and that, while we have started cleaning up our territory, draining out all swamps will take time. The world has shown patience for this argument too. But as with the first one, the accusation again is that we continue to distinguish between good and bad terrorists, protecting the good and killing the bad. This is our weak link. We have no compelling justification for why JuD and LeT and their top leadership is alive and well in Pakistan.

It is acceptable to the world when our prime minister stands up in the UNGA and proclaims Burhan Wani a martyr. But we are not arguing with the world that Hafiz Saeed and Masood Azhar are peaceful citizens who go about their business not harming anyone. The state of Pakistan has included JuD and LeJ in its list of proscribed organisations. Yet Hafiz Saeed remains a celebrity invited to TV shows and a prominent voice within the Dafa-e-Pakistan Council. Can anyone claim with a straight face that the state of Pakistan has been trying to curb Hafiz Saeed?

Masood Azhar’s JeM is also a proscribed organisation. Like Saeed after Mumbai, Azhar was taken into protective custody by Pakistan after the Pathankot attack. But life goes on in JeM’s sprawling establishment in Bahawalpur, which is not far from Pakistan Army’s XXXI Corps headquarter. While India has been trying to have Azhar designated a terrorist by the UN, it has failed so far as China placed a technical hold on consideration of the request for a second time last week. There are no points for guessing why China is going out on a limb to save Azhar.

The question is: why is Pakistan calling in favours for Azhar and what message does that send to the world? The more important question is: what will it take for us – our government and our security establishment – to undertake a cost-gain analysis of the existing policy toward non-state actors? We knew after Mumbai that, notwithstanding denial of state responsibility for actions of non-state actors, some liability would remain and Pakistan would be judged by the alacrity and transparency with which it conducted the trial of the accused plotters.

Pathankot highlighted that actions of non-state actors can trigger a full-scale war between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan. Uri is establishing that it is non-state actors that are now in control of the fate and fortune of the Subcontinent and not the two states. It is time to snap out of our present state of insanity. Let us not allow India’s fighting words to prevent us from undertaking a Machiavellian appraisal of our national security doctrine and how we have transformed homebred non-state actors into the biggest threat to our security.

This nation has tremendous potential. Let it be un-leased as a constructive force. Cutting off the nose to spite the face isn’t wise. There were 101 theories on the utility of the TTP, on ways to control it better, on the expected blowback should it be taken down etc. And then APS happened. The ghastly tragedy did us one favour: it instilled clarity in an otherwise confused polity. Our present policy towards jihadi groups is also a train wreck waiting to happen. Let’s not wait for a disaster to break free from shackles of inertia. Let’s undertake course correction now.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by pankajs »

Cosmo_R wrote:The moment LM gets the go-ahead for the F-16s, watch a shutout being pitched. The MIC will line up to push India's POV. IT's what happened in 2005 on the nuke deal. Every god forsaken Veterans of Foreign Wars outpost in TX wanted to ask John Cornyn (Sen.) about the 'nook deal' and whether he was for it (a good thing). LM had been at work.
My guess is that the US will always have a residual interest in Bakistan. We should just ignore the US when it comes to punishing Baki for its cross-border antics. Once a pattern is firmly established by repetition the US will stop getting in the way.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Primus »

Amber G. wrote:
Primus wrote: ... However, what one gets to see first hand is how the Porkis manage to fool the gullible Americans with suave, well-articulated liars who can spin a tale any which way to suit their purpose.

India, IMHO is severely lacking in the PR department, relying instead on it's honest, straight and transparent behavior. In this game it is all about perception and on the International arena, appearances do make a huge difference.
May be it's a case of glass 99% full vs 1% empty but I don't think too many of us "gullible Americans" are fooled.
Just one example: This is one of the US congressman's statement. (I have distributed to many in my network and it is getting good response)
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard Statement on Recent Terrorist Attack in Kashmir

Washington, DC—U.S. Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard (HI-02) released the following statement in response to the terrorist attack in Kashmir last month:

“Pakistan has continued to allow terrorist organizations to operate within their borders, moving across borders and unchecked, allowing access into India. Most recently, there was another attack along the Line of Control on yet another Indian military camp in Kashmir; this, just after another attack that killed 19 Indian soldiers only two weeks ago. This is deeply troubling.
“People within the Pakistani government continue to provide tacit and overt support for terrorism. This is not new—this pattern of attacks has been occurring now for the past 15 years, and it must end. That’s why I’ve continued working in Congress to cut back U.S. assistance for Pakistan and increase pressure on Pakistan to stop this violence. In the past, the U.S. government took steps to increase pressure on Pakistan, and it’s time to revisit that approach. The Pakistan government must fully cooperate in the investigation of these attacks, take clear, verifiable actions to put an immediate stop to these cross border attacks, and prosecute all of those responsible. We stand in solidarity with India in the face of these attacks and will continue to work together in this fight against terrorism.”


Here is a link, if you want to support Tulsi Gabbard:
https://www.votetulsi.com/petition/kashmir
Virtually every influential leader I have talked, Pak is getting zero takers for their con. I will not be too pessimistic about India's lobbying capabilities. Cheers!
AG, I am glad there is lobbying from India and would hope they continue to do good work.

Tulsi is as Dharmic as they come. She and Nikki Haley are the true friends of India, unlike that idiot Jindal. I would happily support Tulsi's petition.

However, it is my view that things are not as obvious as you point out, although they are definitely improving. When my own kids and extended family members ask me questions about the Pakistan, it is evident that most Americans are clueless. My family would have at least as much if not more exposure to Paki terror (heck, I lose no opportunity to talk about it) as most others here, probably even more as they are all very well versed with current affairs and are well traveled.

Yes, US Congressmen may be well informed at present (and perhaps that's all we need), but the average American, even New Yorkers have very little idea of what is going on in our part of the world. The recent events, especially the strike across the LOC was completely ignored by US media, even the smaller channels (late and biased reporting in the NYT aside). We on BRF agree that it is a game changer, and if one accepts that Pakistan is the terror capital of the world, it has huge implications for the global WOT. Now there may have been 'strategic' reasons for the US government outlets to underplay this but somebody in the various news orgs should have picked up on this. The fact that they chose not to speaks more about India's lack of PR than anything else.

Bad news is good news for the Media and hence terrorist strikes get top billing, so they will always report (however briefly and with their own spin) such attacks in India. However, India's response to the terror has been forgettable - up until now. Which is why this should have made a huge splash - even if they could not authenticate it (they can but usually choose not to for == reasons).

In one of my discussions with close family, it was pointed out to me that the NYT reported that there was no evidence of the strikes. Would they have been this 'neutral' if it was Israel that was involved?

Politicians all over the world, especially in the US are very sensitive to public opinion, and that is what needs to be changed wrt Porkistan.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by CRamS »

PeregrineJi, that Sattar dude living outside TSP does make some good points, but there will not be one taker in TSP, especially the ruling elite. And you know why as much as anybody else. For a start, LeT and Jaish are not "non state" actors, they are very much state actors.

If you look at this dispassionately, i.e., cost/benefit analysis, it is very clear that for TSP, without those pigLeTs, India will ignore them as the scum they are (except for Bollywood perverts). Not only that, without those pigLeTs, India will hammer away at the stone pelters and clean the mess up in the Kashmir valley in 2 weeks. Of course, I am not being delusional and claim that there are no rabid Isalmists in the valley, in fact all of them want to secede, but if you deprive them of TSP pigLeT oxygen, they will fall in place. And Indian democracy can easily absorb them and make it a normal Indian state. TSP cannot simply afford to let this happen. Kashmir is so much a part of their neurotic obsession that they cannot afford to lose. And without pigLeTs and nuke blackmail they surely will. Of course, TSP is also "rational" in the sense that they know they will get wiped out, but are willing to take the risk with pigLeTs in the backdrop of nukes to keep the valley on the boil, and hope to bring India to the negotiating table to discuss Kashmir, and if not get the valley outright, settle for that bogus 4-point formula that Vajpayee/MMS/Mush were negotiating, a key element of which is "joint sovereignty". And I hate to say it, there are many takers for this in India, and they are another lever in TSP's arsenal.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Gagan »

They are a power center that influences decisionmaking at both the political and military level.
The pakjab politicians give them budgetary support from the state budget. The military arms, trains, directs and oversees tactics and planning with them.
Besides they are pakjabi, and essentially core pakistanis.
They will be around AS LONG AS PAKISTAN IS AROUND. They can never be eliminated from the outside or from within.

There is only one way to deal with this
Last edited by Gagan on 08 Oct 2016 19:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Primus »

pankajs wrote:
Primus wrote:What a farce it is. Who would have the stupidity to focus only on one side's perspective on such a contentious topic? I searched their site, there has never been a session on India's POV.
I haven't watched the video but my comments are based on what I have read here and on the net.

As the title of the talk/presentation clearly states this was Baki pov on Kashmir. Did India make a similar request and was it denied? I believe out diplomacy is more at the policy makers level.
That is the fundamental question to be asked, IMHO. Why was there a need to project a Baki POV at all? What is the burning desire to perpetuate a bunch of lies? Is it to 'educate' the American public (as if they care)? If the organizers wished to have an intellectual debate, then all sides should have been invited and a proper opportunity provided for rebuttal. Here the speakers deliver nothing but lies and when questioned, spin more lies and berate the questioner for 'not being civil' in a discussion. Wow!
pankajs wrote:1. Americans know the Baki proclivities well enough but they have their own cost-benefit calculation which is different from ours.
No argument with that, but that's been their stance for over 70 yrs. nothing has changed.
2. There are interests inside and outside the US establishment that are clearly anti-Indian but the pro-Indian interests far far out outnumber/out-influence the anti-Indian interests. That does not mean that the Bakis are totally shut out.
The winds are changing, no doubt for fear of being 'shut out' themselves. You've got to start making friends with the world's third largest economy.

3. If it was stage managed why were the known Baki baiters allowed inside?
4. Bakis can spin fairy tales but those don't sell that well anymore among the policy makers. The mangos don't care beyond burger and beer.
Nothing can be entirely stage managed then it becomes an even greater farce, worthy of SNL. There was also a Paki plant, the journalist who made outrageous insinuations guised as questions that the 'Senator' would not have looked good making. Note, the moderator did not allow the World Hindu Council guy to comment or respond to the Burhan Wani = Nathuram Godse bit.

5. While the public PR is lacking Indians have been fairly good where it matters most i.e with policy makers. We don't realize that because most of GOI's effort is away from the public but focused on the policy makers.
5a. Susan Rice's statement after her talk with AD after our cross-border raid.
5b. Check out the official responses from around the globe on Kashmir or the cross-border Indian action.
5c. One Baki daily has this report lamenting the pushback faced by the 22 special envoys deployed by the Bakis on Kashmir. It seems invariably the Baki envoys were asked about halfpig seed and his recent antics. There was a specific example of France. My guess is that Indians have claimed *exclusive* worldwide distribution right for video and translation of halfpig's speeches.
The same 'policy makers' were talking from the other side of their mouths until a few years ago. We've always lamented the BBC's partisan reporting on Paki terror (calling them everything but terrorists etc).

Thanks to Modi's multiple trips abroad and even more importantly, India's surging economy, everyone wants to be our friends now. They also want to sell us more arms and weapons.

Finally, for the first time perhaps, countries like France are facing their own problems with Islamic Jihad, in their case it is their own chickens coming home to roost though.

Nevertheless, the world is still not serious about fighting terrorism, most 'policy makers' are still focused on their own little battlegrounds and their own strategic objectives. Sushma Swaraj alluded to this in her UNGA speech, there is as yet NO global organized response and no agreement on a coalition against terror. Nations are still locked into the 'their terrorist is our freedom fighter' ideology.

Terrorism is an infectious disease that has now become a pandemic.

Sorry, going off on a tangent here.
And what a brilliant strategy! You insult the fellow whose help you want right in his home. That itself speaks louder than anything the Americans have said or done. I may be wrong but what do I read from that?
1. Bakis are unable to sell their story and hence the public angst.
2. It was the only platform made available to them so they use it to vent their spleen against India and the US itself.
3. The level of frustration can be gauged from the fact that they publicly berated the country they are wooing to help them on their mission.
3a. Regan was a jihadi.
3b. American is a declining power and Bakis will link up with the Russia-China-Iran axis.

Sure the Bakis are getting some *time* but are they getting any love? I don't know what other see but I see wailing and flailing and generally spreading stink all around.
Again, I submit that this is nothing new, the Americans have known this for decades, the Porki's are like the scorpion who stings the Fox every time and the Fox well knows it but still hopes it won't.

Porki's continue to do this because as I said earlier, they suffer from a Societal Schizophrenic Syndrome. Fixed delusions of grandiosity, exalted and exaggerated opinions of themselves and their capabilities with extreme paranoia about enemies (India) lurking around every corner. Those with a background in psychology/psychiatry here will know what I am talking about. They will not change, it is too late for that, an entirely new generation has to grow up with a different mindset, that is the only solution.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by pankajs »

^^
Why do we care if the Americans let the Bakis vent their spleen when you say it is a farce? This wasn't an intellectual *debate* is evident from the title of the talk/presentation. Let the Baki have his 2 minutes of DC time.

Rather we should put our house in order where thinly disguised ISI views are being propagated via Indian media. I will not quote
http://www.firstpost.com/india/mutual-d ... 40730.html
Kashmir dispute: India, Pakistan must seek resolution to prevent nuclear doom scenario (Puke worthy and the title should make that clear)

By Mohammed Sethi - The author is an American Physician of Pakistani decent.
Last edited by pankajs on 08 Oct 2016 20:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Falijee »

ISI DG likely to be replaced
ISLAMABAD - Lt Gen Rizwan Akhtar, the director general of Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, or ISI, the powerful spy agency, is likely to be replaced within the next few weeks, The Nation has learned through official sources.

A security official, who is privy to the development, confirmed the impending change of command and said preparations were underway for the changes.

Lt Gen Akhtar was appointed as the head of ISI in September 2014 and took office in November 2014. Intriguingly, he may be leaving the position earlier than the typical three-year tenure of a ISI DG. The corps commander of Karachi, Lt Gen Naveed Mukhtar, is most likely to replace him, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Another senior security official, who also spoke on condition of anonymity, said Lt Gen Akhtar – who has already served in Karachi as Director General, Sindh Rangers – knows the challenges in Karachi and “the swapping makes sense.”
Gen Raheel Sharif had announced earlier this year that he is not seeking an extension and would take retirement in November.

Lt Gen Asim Saleem Bajwa, the chief military spokesman, however, denied that the intelligence chief was being replaced. “No such thing,” Gen Bajwa said.
Published in The Nation newspaper on 08-Oct-2016
If Raheel "goes" ( as predicted ), so will be this person ; the fact that ISPR is denying this report (like the surgical strike), itself lends credibility to this "rumour"
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by rsingh »

This Mr Rizwan Akhtar...............have we seen him lately? is it possible that he is enjoying IA hospitality? Mind you he was absent from last few important meetings with Ganja.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by pankajs »

http://nation.com.pk/national/06-Oct-20 ... army-chief
World should condemn Indian fabrications about Pakistan: army chief
“We expect international community to condemn Indian insinuations and fabrications about a nation that has made unparalleled contributions in the global fight against terrorism,” said the army chief.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Baikul »

I think the Pakistani chief is asking the world to vigorously condom Indian insertions.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by pran »

Pakistani bravado and smart aleck attitude was proven useless with Osama's operation. With a little wiggle room provided to the jehadi army feigned ignorance started to polish their ego as having won this episode of shame with the thought that it was done by a superpower who had the will and technical resources to pull it off.

Then they see India going about the Burma operation and the jehadis started putting up the facade of invincibility. Well now that India did it to them and did it so well, no helicopter crashes, not one but over the whole LOC. It is like doing multiple laparoscopic surgeries before the patient even recovers from local anesthesia.

India surpassed the previous record set by the great khan and set a new one. Well this is utter shame that India is behaving like a super power. The rationale for Pakistan is we get paid to get bitch slapped by the goras. It is unacceptable to have the same from SDREs.
It is only time when Afghans and Iran will take the pus out of the body facing them.

Hopefully China will take note that they have not invested so much as to do course correction, Airlifting CPEC army is a dangerous proposition when the KKH is always vulnerable from Indias reach.
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