Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

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Peregrine
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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Peregrine »

Is Mody Ji a "Secret" Lutyen Peacenick?

1. 'Expect a good U-turn': Modi is flexible, may spring a surprise, says Pak's Kashmir envoy - PTI | Updated: Oct 8, 2016, 08.16 PM IST

WASHINGTON: The US is playing a "positive role in pushing and prodding India" to lower tension and start dialogue with Pakistan, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's envoy has said.

"We feel that the US has a positive role in pushing and prodding India to lower the temperature and start talking to Pakistan rather than talking at Pakistan+ ," Special Kashmir Envoy of Sharif, Senator Mushahid Hussain Syed told PTI at the conclusion of his five-day trip to the US.

"One expression of that was the phone call initiated by Ajit Doval, National Security Advisor to Prime Minister Narendra Modi and there has been a follow up phone call. The purpose of those phone calls was to defuse tension," said Syed, who was here with Shezra Mansab, another Kashmir Envoy.

He said Modi is "not from the Indian Delhi establishment, where you have unsmiling crusty old men who are always sulking and who are stuck in old cold war mentality, as he is an outsider.

"I feel that there would be SAARC Summit in Islamabad+ . Mr Modi will come there. And he would embrace Mr Nawaz Sharif. I think, Modi would realise that this is the way forward," Syed added.

"Mr Modi has the capacity to spring a surprise. One good thing about him is that he is flexible enough to do U turns. So I expect a good U turn probably in the coming months in our relations and we might see pleasant surprise in relations with South Asia, because Mr Modi and Mr Sharif have a good rapport and I think, Mr Modi is preparing his people for this U turn.

"Because he (Modi) realises that two important core interest of India are linked with that. Number one relationship with Pakistan and the Kashmir conflict are the biggest impediment in the rise of India. India wants to rise, they want to be on the high table, Nuclear Suppliers Group+ , UN Security Council. No, till you have better relationship with Pakistan," Syed said.

Syed warned that a war with Pakistan would push back Indian economy by 10 years, which he said Modi does not want.

"He (Modi) cannot afford. This raising of tension would be devastating, debilitating and damaging for India. We do not want to respond to war rhetoric (coming from India) by war rhetoric. We are not responding to India in its tone. We still want peace," Mansab said.

Syed warned that a war with Pakistan would push back Indian economy+ by 10 years, which he said Modi does not want.

"He (Modi) cannot afford. This raising of tension would be devastating, debilitating and damaging for India. We do not want to respond to war rhetoric (coming from India) by war rhetoric. We are not responding to India in its tone. We still want peace," Mansab said.

Man Oh Man! Is Senator Mushahid Hussain Syed out of his cotton-pickinging mind, or, is he?

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+++++

Following post - 02hrs 37m earlier - Mody Ji the "Real McCoy! :

2. No breakthrough likely in Indo-Pak ties during Modi tenure: Sartaj Aziz : IANS | Oct 8, 2016, 05:49 PM IST
ISLAMABAD: Adviser to the Pakistan Prime Minister on Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz has said there could be no expectation of any breakthrough in relations between Pakistan and India during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's tenure.
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GShankar
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by GShankar »

pran wrote: India surpassed the previous record set by the great khan and set a new one. Well this is utter shame that India is behaving like a super power. The rationale for Pakistan is we get paid to get bitch slapped by the goras. It is unacceptable to have the same from SDREs.
It is only time when Afghans and Iran will take the pus out of the body facing them.

Hopefully China will take note that they have not invested so much as to do course correction, Airlifting CPEC army is a dangerous proposition when the KKH is always vulnerable from Indias reach.
Afghanistan has already started. Pakistan's worst nightmare is internal asymmetric attacks from Baluchistan, Sindh and pOk, which are showing signs of starting up with India's public diplomatic support. Going forward, pakis have to drop the ooman rights narrative.

And India will do well to proceed further on the diplomatic offense and formally introduce Baluchistan, Sindh and pok as civil war regions in UN. CPEC, as presently constituted is done!

China would be smart to deal with us. The recent Brahmaputra block, etc. are efforts by china to introduce as negotiating pieces to ensure CPEC is not harmed. China seems to have piled up quite a few such negotiating pieces for almost all of their concerns with India. Our current govt. seems very adept in playing this game.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by K Mehta »

These guys are really underestimating Modi. They are in for a huge beating. Somebody needs to remind Modi that these guys were also involved in the amrikan visa thing.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by pankajs »

http://www.orfonline.org/expert-speaks/ ... on-ladder/
India now controls the escalation ladder
The deterrence game between India and Pakistan has changed dramatically with India’s decision to conduct a military strike across the Line of Control (LoC). The Indian action was a clear escalation that demonstrated that India has the upper hand to control escalation and thus possibly deter Pakistan more effectively. This upends the escalation dynamic between India and Pakistan because it was Pakistan that controlled escalation until now.

This change will not go unchallenged by Pakistan. Rawalpindi can be expected to probe and attempt to undermine India’s new assertion of escalation dominance. New Delhi, therefore, needs to be ready to cement this assertion by being prepared to play its much stronger hand, especially in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK).
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by salaam »

GShankar wrote:China would be smart to deal with us. The recent Brahmaputra block, etc. are efforts by china to introduce as negotiating pieces to ensure CPEC is not harmed. China seems to have piled up quite a few such negotiating pieces for almost all of their concerns with India. Our current govt. seems very adept in playing this game.
Indus and tributaries v/s Brahmaputra have very few similarities.

Almost all of Indus et al. catchment area in is in the undivided state of J & K. We should not be party to any water sharing as we are upper riparian.

Brahmaputra catchment is about 50% in Tibet. 42% in India/Bhutan and 8% in Bangladesh. China just blocked one small tributary. Even if they block all, Assam valley cultivation will be easily taken care off. We will have to put in check dams to counter Chinese flooding Assam valley (but this is hypothetical). Bangladesh will be worst hit though.

We should happily go and rescind IWT.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by GShankar »

salaam wrote:
GShankar wrote:China would be smart to deal with us. The recent Brahmaputra block, etc. are efforts by china to introduce as negotiating pieces to ensure CPEC is not harmed. China seems to have piled up quite a few such negotiating pieces for almost all of their concerns with India. Our current govt. seems very adept in playing this game.
Indus and tributaries v/s Brahmaputra have very few similarities.

Almost all of Indus et al. catchment area in is in the undivided state of J & K. We should not be party to any water sharing as we are upper riparian.

Brahmaputra catchment is about 50% in Tibet. 42% in India/Bhutan and 8% in Bangladesh. China just blocked one small tributary. Even if they block all, Assam valley cultivation will be easily taken care off. We will have to put in check dams to counter Chinese flooding Assam valley (but this is hypothetical). Bangladesh will be worst hit though.

We should happily go and rescind IWT.
All these logic I am afraid won't work with china. Just realpolitik.

Modi has hit quite a few birds with one proverbial arrow. Warning to China about CPEC, pakis are put in place, people from balochistan, sindh and pok are given confidence that they would be supported. Side affect - Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia would want to gain this expertise of surgical strikes of a different - say to remove some shacks from shallow waters :). I wouldn't surprise if we set-up an Indo-pacific naval exercise on this.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Gagan »

Baikul wrote:I think the Pakistani chief is asking the world to vigorously condom Indian insertions.
:rotfl:
They are afraid that the Virus of liberation of the provinces may be implanted during the err course
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by pankajs »

2 points wrt Brahmaputra.

1. The project was started in 2014 by the Chinese (per one report). So how is it linked to India's change on IWT that happened now? This is a ploy of Indian dalal media to creat a scare in India on Baki behalf.
2. This is also a run of the river project. What will happen later is another thing but in its present form it does not hurt India.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Primus »

pankajs wrote:^^
Why do we care if the Americans let the Bakis vent their spleen when you say it is a farce? This wasn't an intellectual *debate* is evident from the title of the talk/presentation. Let the Baki have his 2 minutes of DC time.

Rather we should put our house in order where thinly disguised ISI views are being propagated via Indian media. I will not quote
http://www.firstpost.com/india/mutual-d ... 40730.html
Kashmir dispute: India, Pakistan must seek resolution to prevent nuclear doom scenario (Puke worthy and the title should make that clear)

By Mohammed Sethi - The author is an American Physician of Pakistani decent.
Agree, we should put our own house in order and prevent Indian media outlets to post obviously biased anti-India opinions from Porkis.

FWIW, Porkis in the US are no different from Porkis in the Pigsty. Rabidly anti-India and lose no opportunity to vent themselves. I interact with them, especially the Sethi types on a daily basis. There are a few, a really small minority that are good human beings, but they are as effective as the proverbial fart in a hurricane.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Gagan »

The Chinese are planning 4 dams within a distance of 25-30 Kms. The first is already built, the second is building.
Look here...
Zangmu Dam: 510 MW. 29°10'45.44"N, 92°31'52.77"E (Already built)
Dagu Dam: 640 MW. 29°15'52.20"N, 92°24'39.41"E (Under construction)
Jiexu Dam: 29°14'53.15"N, 92°28'31.29"E
Jiacha Dam: 320 MW, Approx here. 29° 8'9.59"N, 92°35'56.56"E

Image
Last edited by Gagan on 09 Oct 2016 01:01, edited 2 times in total.
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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Peregrine »

CRamS wrote:PeregrineJi, that Sattar dude living outside TSP does make some good points, but there will not be one taker in TSP, especially the ruling elite. And you know why as much as anybody else. For a start, LeT and Jaish are not "non state" actors, they are very much state actors.

If you look at this dispassionately, i.e., cost/benefit analysis, it is very clear that for TSP, without those pigLeTs, India will ignore them as the scum they are (except for Bollywood perverts). Not only that, without those pigLeTs, India will hammer away at the stone pelters and clean the mess up in the Kashmir valley in 2 weeks. Of course, I am not being delusional and claim that there are no rabid Isalmists in the valley, in fact all of them want to secede, but if you deprive them of TSP pigLeT oxygen, they will fall in place. And Indian democracy can easily absorb them and make it a normal Indian state. TSP cannot simply afford to let this happen. Kashmir is so much a part of their neurotic obsession that they cannot afford to lose. And without pigLeTs and nuke blackmail they surely will. Of course, TSP is also "rational" in the sense that they know they will get wiped out, but are willing to take the risk with pigLeTs in the backdrop of nukes to keep the valley on the boil, and hope to bring India to the negotiating table to discuss Kashmir, and if not get the valley outright, settle for that bogus 4-point formula that Vajpayee/MMS/Mush were negotiating, a key element of which is "joint sovereignty". And I hate to say it, there are many takers for this in India, and they are another lever in TSP's arsenal.
CRamS Ji :

I agree that the LeT & Jaish are very much Pakistan’s State Actors in fact I am convinced that they are Pak Army in civvies.

In addition to the rabid Islamist it is the Sunni Population that would like to Kashmir to be Independent – or even join Cwapistan. The Shias are aware of this problem. Indeed the Cwapistsnis have the PigLets who are eager to get their 72 Virgins and 36 Boys but with the passage of time I hope that the PigLets will realize that their blowing themselves up is in vain.

As long as Modi Ji does not “return” to the 4-Point Agenda and thereby removes all “remnants” of the Vajpayee/MMS/Mush Legacy then in my opinion we should be home and dry.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by pankajs »

^^
Modi will not not only not return to the mushRAT formula but chances are he will not settle for LOC=IB and you know what that means. He will make a play for POK sometime during his second term.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by pankajs »

Gagan wrote:The Chinese are planning 4 dams within a distance of 25-30 Kms. The first is already built, the second is building.
Look here...
Zangmu Dam: 510 MW. 29°10'45.44"N, 92°31'52.77"E
Dagu Dam: 640 MW. 29°15'52.20"N, 92°24'39.41"E
Jiacha Dam: 320 MW, Approx here. 29° 8'9.59"N, 92°35'56.56"E
These are all run of the river projects with no diversion component as of date.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Gagan »

Yes, and power generation too. If they want to generate power, then they have to release water, has to be run of the river.
The terrain at that location precludes diversion.

But further downstream, where there is the big U shape bend towards Arunachal, is where they would divert water from. Need to keep an eye out for that.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Peregrine »

Indian traders stop supplying vegetables to Pakistan as tension rises
Amid tension on its western border escalating, traders from the Indian state of Gujarat have decided to stop supplying vegetables, especially tomatoes and chilli, to Pakistan, the Times of India reports.
Ahmedabad General Commission Agent Association general secretary Ahmed Patel said, “Gujarat used to send 50 trucks having 10 tonnes of vegetables, mainly tomatoes and chilli, to Pakistan from Wagah border but we have stopped supply for the past two days considering the tension between the two countries.”
This is the first time in almost two decades that Gujarat traders have decided to halt supply of essential vegetables to its western neighbour, he said. “We will not supply vegetables to Pakistan till the normalisation of relations between the two countries,” Patel said.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Viv S »

Exclusive: Act against militants or face international isolation, civilians tell military
CYRIL ALMEIDA

ISLAMABAD: In a blunt, orchestrated and unprecedented warning, the civilian government has informed the military leadership of a growing international isolation of Pakistan and sought consensus on several key actions by the state.

As a result of the most recent meeting, an undisclosed one on the day of the All Parties’ Conference on Monday, at least two sets of actions have been agreed.

First, ISI DG Gen Rizwan Akhtar, accompanied by National Security Adviser Nasser Janjua, is to travel to each of the four provinces with a message for provincial apex committees and ISI sector commanders.

The message: military-led intelligence agencies are not to interfere if law enforcement acts against militant groups that are banned or until now considered off-limits for civilian action. Gen Akhtar’s inter-provincial tour has begun with a visit to Lahore.

Second, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has directed that fresh attempts be made to conclude the Pathankot investigation and restart the stalled Mumbai attacks-related trials in a Rawalpindi antiterrorism court.

Those decisions, taken after an extraordinary verbal confrontation between Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif and the ISI DG, appear to indicate a high-stakes new approach by the PML-N government.

The following account is based on conversations with Dawn of individuals present in the crucial meetings this week.

All declined to speak on the record and none of the attributed statements were confirmed by the individuals mentioned.


Foreign secretary’s presentation

On Monday, on the day of the All Parties’ Conference, Foreign Secretary Aizaz Chaudhry gave a separate, exclusive presentation in the Prime Minister’s Office to a small group of civil and military officials.

The meeting was chaired by Prime Minister Sharif and included senior cabinet and provincial officials. On the military side, ISI DG Rizwan Akhtar led the representatives.

The presentation by the foreign secretary summarised the results of the recent diplomatic outreach by Pakistan, the crux being that Pakistan faces diplomatic isolation and that the government’s talking points have been met with indifference in major world capitals.

On the US, Mr Chaudhry said that relations have deteriorated and will likely further deteriorate because of the American demand that action be taken against the Haqqani network. On India, Mr Chaudhry stated that the completion of the Pathankot investigation and some visible action against Jaish-i-Mohammad were the principal demands.

Then, to a hushed but surprised room, Mr Chaudhry suggested that while China has reiterated its support for Pakistan, it too has indicated a preference for a change in course by Pakistan. Specifically, while Chinese authorities have conveyed their willingness to keep putting on technical hold a UN ban on Jaish-i-Mohammad leader Masood Azhar, they have questioned the logic of doing so repeatedly.


Extraordinary exchange

The foreign secretary’s unexpectedly blunt conclusions triggered an astonishing and potentially ground-shifting exchange between the ISI DG and several civilian officials.

In response to Foreign Secretary Chaudhry’s conclusions, Gen Akhtar asked what steps could be taken to prevent the drift towards isolation. Mr Chaudhry’s reply was direct and emphatic: the principal international demands are for action against Masood Azhar and the Jaish-i-Mohmmad; Hafiz Saeed and the Lashkar-e-Taiba; and the Haqqani network.

To that, Gen Akhtar offered that the government should arrest whomever it deems necessary, though it is unclear whether he was referring to particular individuals or members of banned groups generally. At that point came the stunning and unexpectedly bold intervention by Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif.

Addressing Gen Akhtar, the younger Sharif complained that whenever action has been taken against certain groups by civilian authorities, the security establishment has worked behind the scenes to set the arrested free. Astounded onlookers describe a stunned room that was immediately aware of the extraordinary, unprecedented nature of the exchange.

To defuse tensions, Prime Minister Sharif himself addressed Gen Akhtar and said that policies pursued in the past were state policies and as such they were the collective responsibility of the state and that the ISI DG was not being accused of complicity in present-day events.


PM’s strategy?

Several eyewitnesses to the incredible events of Monday believe that the foreign secretary’s presentation and Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif’s intervention were orchestrated by the prime minister to stir the military to action, leading to the decision to dispatch the ISI DG on an inter-provincial tour.

Yet, according to the accounts shared with Dawn, the sparring between the ISI DG and civilian officials did not degenerate into acrimony.

Earlier in the meeting, ISI DG Gen Akhtar stated that not only is it the military’s policy to not distinguish between militant groups, but that the military is committed to that policy prevailing. The ISI chief did mention concerns about the timing of action against several groups, citing the need to not be seen as buckling to Indian pressure or abandoning the Kashmiri people.

Gen Akhtar also readily agreed to tour the provinces at the direction of the prime minister, issue fresh orders to ISI sector commanders and meet with provincial apex committees to chalk out specific actions that need to be taken in various provinces.

According to several government officials, Monday’s confrontation was part of a high-stakes gamble by Prime Minister Sharif to try and forestall further diplomatic pressure on Pakistan. In separate meetings with the army chief, participants describe an animated and energised Mr Sharif, who has argued that Pakistan faces real isolation if policy adjustments are not made.

Government officials, however, are divided about whether Prime Minister Sharif’s gamble will pay off. According to one official, commenting on the ISI DG’s commitments, “This is what we prayed to hear all our lives. Let’s see if it happens.”

Another government official offered: “Wait till November to see if action will be taken. By then a lot of things will be settled.”

Military officials declined to comment.

___________________


Clarification:

The spok­es­­man for Prime Minister Office on Thursday denied a story appearing in Dawn on Oct 6 regarding “purported deliberations” of a meeting held on security issues. The spokesman termed contents of the story not only speculative but misleading and factually incorrect, describing it as an “amalgamation of fiction and fabrication”.

Dispelling the impression created by the report, headlined “Act against militants or face international isolation, civilians tell military”, he said that intelligence agencies, particularly the ISI, are working in line with the state policy in the best interest of the nation, both at the federal and provincial levels to act against terrorists of all hue and colour without any discrimination. Indeed the Army’s and ISI’s role and contributions towards implementation of NAP have been proactive and unwavering, the spokesman said. Meanwhile, the office of the chief minister of Punjab also denied the comments attributed to Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif in the news story.

Dismissing it as a baseless table story, he emphasised that besides his respect for the institution of the armed forces, on an individual level he also had the highest respect for the present ISI DG for his professionalism, commitment to duty and sincerity of purpose.

Published in Dawn, October 6th, 2016
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Falijee »

Critics : C.P.E.C Should Be Renamed As China - Punjab Economic Corridor !

Chinese embassy releases province-wise share under CPEC project
ISLAMABAD: Deputy Chief of Mission Chinese Embassy Zhao Lijian Wednesday explained the share of four provinces in the $51.5 billion China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) project.

Zhao response came in response to criticism in the local press and on social media about the Western route of CPEC and alleged absence of CPEC benefits to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Balochistan. And that with P in CPEC for Punjab, this is more of a China-Punjab Economic Corridor.

There have been planned protests by Awami National Party (ANP) against ‘change of Western route of CPEC and deprivation of Pakhtoon and Baloch interests.’

Chinese Ambassador to Pakistan Sun Weidong said reports that he had told KPK Chief Minister Pervez Khattak the Western route was not included in CPEC were “untrue.”

Giving the break-up of CPEC project, Zhao wrote in a series of tweets pasted at Wali Zahid’s blog that the number of projects included: Balochistan 16, KPK 8, Sindh 13 and Punjab 12.
China has already invested $14 billion in 30 early-harvest projects to be completed under CPEC, a flagship project of the One Belt One Road initiative launched by Chinese President Xi Jinping.

Out of the 30 projects, 16 were under construction, a statement quoted Chinese Embassy Deputy Chief of Mission Zhao Lijian as saying, blogger Wali Zahid wrote. – APP
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by RCase »

pankajs wrote:http://nation.com.pk/national/06-Oct-20 ... army-chief
World should condemn Indian fabrications about Pakistan: army chief
“We expect international community to condemn Indian insinuations and fabrications about a nation (the Ivy League of Terror) that has made unparalleled contributions in the global fight against terrorism,” said the army chief.
... Corrected! :D
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by RCase »

I think the jhapad administered by India is MORE than what meets the eye and has been reported. Gauging the reactions of the Pakis in their TV talk shows, the defense analpests, Ganja, RAWheel and the circus called the Paki parliament; the bluster seems to have taken a severe beating. It is now talk of reducing tension etc. No more of 'we will use tactical nukes or make a first strike', 'mooh tod jawab', Paki army's invincibility, Pak fauj is the best battle trained force, fizzaya that can take down the IAF etc.

It has affected the psyche of the Pakis significantly (at least for the short term).
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by RCase »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 759616.cms
Pak lurks - please protest this in the UN. Your masters, the Saudis, killed fellow ummah biraders in Yemen using similar tactics that your fizzaya uses in Baluchistan. 140 killed is a lot more than one stone pelter or a 22 year old AK-47 wielding terrorist dying.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by deejay »

Gagan wrote:The Chinese are planning 4 dams within a distance of 25-30 Kms. The first is already built, the second is building.
Look here...
Zangmu Dam: 510 MW. 29°10'45.44"N, 92°31'52.77"E (Already built)
Dagu Dam: 640 MW. 29°15'52.20"N, 92°24'39.41"E (Under construction)
Jiexu Dam: 29°14'53.15"N, 92°28'31.29"E
Jiacha Dam: 320 MW, Approx here. 29° 8'9.59"N, 92°35'56.56"E

Image
Gaganullah - border demarcation in red is wrong.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by pankajs »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 759554.cms
India braces for 'major terror attack' as de-escalation talks with Pakistan falter

NEW DELHI: Pakistan's NSA, Nasir Janjua+ talked "de-escalation" with Ajit Doval last week, but at the top levels of the Indian government there is a growing belief Pakistan could retaliate against last week's surgical strikes with a big terror attack in India in the coming weeks.
<....>
What is clear is that after the September 29 surgical strikes inside PoK , the LoC is no longer sacrosanct for India. The strikes were intended to ensure that terrorists in their launch pads across the LoC in PoK, watched over by the Pakistan army, would no longer feel comfortable. That was the immediate aim.

The longer term aim was to signal to Pakistan that it would have to adjust to a 'new normal' - the 'new' was established last week, the 'normal' will have to be built up over time. Pakistan will now have to factor in a possible Indian response, where surprise and speed will be the key, and unpredictability the usual, where the LoC will matter less and less.
<....>
In the past few years, Pakistan controlled the threshold - its nuclear status - and everything below that threshold was fair game. This ranged from small strikes to the big ones in Mumbai (2006 and 2008). Everytime, India fulminated but never went beyond a diplomatic response, creating the terror-talks cycle that have been the norm for the past decade or so. Both India and Pakistan had settled down into this cycle, India's helplessness deepening.
<....>
There are growing differences between the Pakistan civilian establishment and the military-ISI ruling elite over India and terrorism, so the much vilified report in a Pakistan newspaper is not untrue. But the latter is not yet ready to give up the terror infrastructure, because the costs so far are still something Pakistan can absorb. India wants to raise those costs with time and sustained action.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by shiv »

pankajs wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 759554.cms
India braces for 'major terror attack' as de-escalation talks with Pakistan falter
There is some sensational nonsense in the article - typical of the Indian press that choose to milk a current topic.

First the headline - what de escalation talks?

I agree with the general premise that Pakis will attack India and there may be a terrorist attack at any time.

But I keep hearing people (and the media) saying that "Now there will be a big attack". Why? Why now? Does it mean that Pakis have not been trying hard enough all these days?

I fin;d it very difficult to express a mental image I have of an "evolving Pakistani strategy". They started attacking India with jihadis in 1947 and then with their regular army in 65 and 71. By 99 the regular army was no longer keen on direct confrontation - but jihadis had free access to soft civilian targets in India. That has become less easy because of the negative reaction in the world as well as increased internal security.

So Pakis have been left with only one alternative. Attack where they are strongest - at the border with Kashmir but only with jihadis.
Now that India has promised to kill those people in PoK the army Paki army has to join or cop out.

Even if SrI Sri conspires with the Dalai Lama to conduct the next terror attack in India it is going to be blamed on Pakistan so Pakistan has very little wiggle room for terror.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by arun »

The Hindu says that back on August 30. 2011 India commenced a “surgical strike’” code-named Operation Ginger across the LoC. The “surgical strike’” was to retaliate for an attack on a remote Indian army post in Gugaldhar ridge in Kupwara on July 30, 2011:

Operation Ginger: Tit-for-tat across the Line of Control
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by williams »

Pak fauj is the best battle trained farce. :rotfl: And Modi-Doval combine has proven that point now. I think the whole de-escalation talks and escalation ladder etc is from the traditional punditry talk. This is a new normal. There will not be any de-escalation. Any further escalation will be met with more escalatory normal. Paki Generals know that. 3+1 friends know that, but our low IQ DDM cannot comprehend that and are hunting for new headlines to prop their non-existent TRP. What nobody is reporting is that there is very specific target practice going on in the border and any cease fire violation is met with disproportionate response. Paki fauj is running around to see if that can be stopped. Unfortunately nobody on the Indian side are ready for business as usual talk. In the power corridors of Delhi there is so much anger at Paki behavior that they are still evaluating additional diplomatic and military response. Nothing short of Pakis publicly punishing the terror handlers will satisfy them. DDM does not understand that and they are trying speculate from the tit bits they get from their leaks/sources based on their low level understanding.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Dipanker »

CRamS wrote: ...
settle for that bogus 4-point formula that Vajpayee/MMS/Mush were negotiating, a key element of which is "joint sovereignty". And I hate to say it, there are many takers for this in India, and they are another lever in TSP's arsenal.
MMS had rejected the "joint sovereignty" part and ok.ed the other 3.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Agnimitra »

arun wrote:The Hindu says that back on August 30. 2011 India commenced a “surgical strike’” code-named Operation Ginger across the LoC. The “surgical strike’” was to retaliate for an attack on a remote Indian army post in Gugaldhar ridge in Kupwara on July 30, 2011:

Operation Ginger: Tit-for-tat across the Line of Control
The cross-LOC strikes in 2011 and 20113 were platoon or company-level operations, and in a very restricted area (~1km), and was mainly of the nature of 'hot pursuit'. This is the first time it was across LoC, coordinated across a wide area, striking at multiple spots simultaneously, and a true 'surgical strike' with intel inputs.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by pankajs »

pankajs wrote:Sure the Bakis are getting some *time* but are they getting any love? I don't know what other see but I see wailing and flailing and generally spreading stink all around.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 762244.cms
Pak's envoys go to US about Kashmir, US tells them to end cross-border attacks
[Nothing to be elated about. No matter what the US opines we MUST do what is in our interest. They are not going to fight our wars. BUT its good to see our diplomatic effort paying off]
<------------>
NEW DELHI: US government officials and think tanks told Islamabad's special envoys to Kashmir who visited Washington last week to "end cross-border attacks if Pakistan wants its stance on Kashmir to be heard", Dawn reported today. {Not gonna happen}

After five days of getting no love from Washington on the Kashmir issue, the envoys, who started their Washington trip with bluster, ended it with a whimper.

At the start of their 5-day trip, the Pakistani envoys warned that their country would join the "China-Russia-Iran" axis if the US didn't intervene in the Kashmir issue. They even sent a message to India that they would invoke the Maoists and small rebellions in northeast India , if India continued to talk about Balochistan, TOI reported yesterday.

At the end of their trip yesterday, though, the envoys struck a more conciliatory note saying "there's no role for militancy in policy-making and non-state actors cannot be allowed to operate from the Pakistani territory," the Pakistani newspaper wrote. {What happened during the interim? Did the bakis get more condom (per the request of RAaaa Sharif) than they had bargained for?}

Mushahid Hussain Syed, one of the two envoys sent to the US to present Pakistan's case on Kashmir, said that there was complete consensus on this issue in parliament, where all parties jointly drafted a 22-point resolution asking the government to end militancy. Syed's comments came a few days after Dawn reported that the civilian government recently sent a blunt message to the country's military leadership, saying Pakistan will be completely isolated if it didn't stop cross-border militant attacks.

Dawn further wrote today that diplomatic sources in Washington said the Pakistan PM Nawaz Sharif's envoys "noticed the damage the militancy has done to Pakistan's image in general, and to the Kashmir cause in particular, and it is likely to figure prominently in their assessment of the current mood in Washington." {Did he need to go to DC to understand that? I can see it sitting right here in India and all I have is internet access.}

Referring to the unrest in Kashmir, following the killing of Hizbul Mujahideen terrorist Burhan Wani , the news report said that "in the US media, the Uri attack sidelined whatever sympathy the uprising" in Kashmir had attracted. {Tactical brilliance?}

"In the initial days of the uprising, major US media outlets condemned Indian atrocities against civilians and stressed the need for resolving the Kashmir dispute. But after the attack, the coverage shifted to militancy, with some reports clearly blaming Pakistan for allowing militants to use its territory ,"the article said.

Pakistan was similarly sidelined in the UN General Assembly last month , Dawn wrote. {Didn't some folks think India was being isolated?}

"Pakistan faced a similar isolation at the UN General Assembly in New York last month where the prime minister forcefully raised the Kashmir issue but failed to gain as much sympathy as he would have, had there been no militant attack,"the report said.

Yesterday, after 5 days of having to answer to questions about the Uri terror attack, the envoys said the US was doing "positive pushing and prodding" for reducing tensions between India and Pakistan. They added that they would not be surprised if Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi finally came to Islamabad to attend the SAARC summit "and embrace Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif". [Wallah! Bakis get the questions and Modi gets the prodding? :rotfl: ]

Modi said on September 27 he wouldn't not attend the summit. After that almost all SAARC countries dropped out and Islamabad had to cancel the summit.

There is no alternative for talks. And this is a message that the Americans are also sending to both India and Pakistan," said the other envoy, MNA Shezra Mansab Ali.
-------------->
Perhaps will have to fetch that dawn farticle.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Falijee »

Raheel "Screwed Up " Foreign Policy : Pak Journo
Cyril Almeida — Published about 17 hours ago

Interesting days again
THE message has been delivered; it has been received coolly; so we’re left with two questions: why now and what next?
Nawaz and the N-League are wrong on militancy. They’ve been wrong since they got back Punjab in 2008 and they’ve been wrong since they captured the centre in 2013.Either they don’t get it or they refuse to get it, but they’re not interested in a war on militancy and don’t see detoxifying society as a core part of their agenda.But three things have changed.
One, Raheel snatched foreign policy from Nawaz and screwed it up. Two, militancy became a threat to the core agenda: the N-League’s version of economic growth. And three, the boys have tried to muscle their way into Punjab.
On Afghanistan, Raheel seems...
On Iran, Raheel decided to double down on Saudi...
On India, Raheel kneecapped Nawaz early and has been intent on keeping India at a distance....
So the worse things have got, the more Nawaz has chafed at what he perceives as the original problem: sidelining him in foreign policy.He wants back in.
n getting some action against some groups, the N-League doesn’t want to open the door to Punjab.Where is it all headed?Between now and November, there should be some more clues. Nobody thinks there’ll be a policy U-turn or that there’ll be one soon, but Nawaz is pushing for some quick actions.If he gets them in the next few weeks, we’ll know which way the conversation is headed. If he doesn’t and political pressure suddenly appears again, paranoia may get the better of the government.The chief too has a final few cards to play: a shuffle of senior commanders, perhaps at the ISI too, and a say in the selection of the next chief.Interesting days are here again.
The Fauji Establishment wants to discredit this journalist for "washing the (Paki) dirty linen" in public !
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Falijee »

Pakistan Still "Hopes " To Participate In Junior Hockey World Cup

Pakistan’s participation in junior Hockey World Cup depends on government clearence
PHF said that the junior hockey team would only travel to India for world cup if the government gives the green signal.
With diplomatic tensions between the two countries flaring in the wake of recent developments at the border, the Pakistan Hockey Federation (PHF) has sought clearance from its government to send the hockey team for the FIH Junior World Cup to be held in Lucknow in December.
Pakistani Olympians have already expressed their disappointment at some of the statements coming from few Indian players about avenging the Uri attack by defeating Pakistan in the Asian Champions Trophy, starting October 20.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by A_Gupta »

arun wrote:The Hindu says that back on August 30. 2011 India commenced a “surgical strike’” code-named Operation Ginger across the LoC. The “surgical strike’” was to retaliate for an attack on a remote Indian army post in Gugaldhar ridge in Kupwara on July 30, 2011:

Operation Ginger: Tit-for-tat across the Line of Control
Apart from the scope of the operation, the big difference is going public instead of going for plausible deniability; and being willing to take whatever international diplomatic heat that comes.
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Prem »

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Gagan »

deejay mian,
You're right, I didn't notice it at first.
The map is from a blog, the boundary is wrong. It actually represents china's claim line, not india's actual borders
Thanks for pointing that out :)
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by arun »

X Posted from the “India-Russia: News & Analysis” thread.
arun wrote:Video of CNN-News 18 interview of Alexander M Kadakin, Russia’s Ambassador to India.

All in all pretty supportive of India.

Note:
A.His stressing that the Uri attack came from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
B.Call on the Islamic Republic to cease cross border terror
C.Support for India’s surgical strike
D.Use of term "Pakistan-Occupied Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir"
E.Falling in line with India and terming terrorism as the greatest human right violation just as India has done at the UN
F.Comment that the Uniformed Jihadis of Pakistani army “use itself for terror attacks against India”:

Youtube - Clicky

Text of the accompanying article put out by CNN-News 18 follows:
New Delhi: Backing India’s surgical strikes against terror camps in Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir (PoK) the Russian ambassador to India, Alexander M Kadakin, said that Russian Federation was the only country to say in plain words that terrorists came from Pakistan.

In an exclusive interview with CNN News18, he called upon Pakistan to stop trans-border terror.

He said that his country had always been with India in fighting cross-border terrorism.

“Greatest Human Rights violations take place when terrorists attack military installations and attack peaceful civilians in India. We welcome the surgical strike. Every country has right to defend itself,” said the Russian Ambassador.

Assuring India that it does not need to worry about Russia-Pakistan joint military exercise, he said the exercises didn't take place in "Pakistan-Occupied Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir".

The usage of the word/term “Pakistan-Occupied Indian State of Jammu and Kashmir” assumes a lot of importance.

“India should not be concerned about military exercises between Russia and Pakistan because the theme of the exercise is anti-terror fighting. That's in India’s interests that we teach Pakistani army not to use itself for terror attacks against India. And the exercise was not held in any sensitive or problematic territories like Pakistan-occupied Indian state of Jammu," said the Russian Ambassador.
Here:

Clicky
Islamic Republic of Pakistan based Newspaper, “The News”, citing “Highly placed diplomatic sources” claims that following protests by the Islamic Republic, Russia had “disapproved the observations of Ambassador Alexander Kadakin” who is Russia’s Ambassador to India and indicated that Kadakin would be “reprimanded” for comments supporting India.

While this is most likely the usual fabrication by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, I do hope that our Foreign Policy establishment is keeping an eye on things to ensure that this is not a case of Russia playing fast and loose given that holding of a Military exercise with the Islamic Republic was not a very friendly thing to do in the aftermath of Uri notwithstanding holding an exercise with us at the same time.

Meanwhile wait and watch:
Highly placed diplomatic sources told The News here Sunday that Pakistan agitated with Kremlin about the remarks of its ambassador in the Indian capital. Russia while responding to Pakistan has made it absolutely clear that the statement of its ambassador in New Delhi doesn’t commensurate with the Russian position on the subject and it disapproved the observations of Ambassador Alexander Kadakin.

It is understood that the ambassador who is serving in New Delhi since 2009 would be reprimanded on this count. Alexander Kadakin welcomed Indian so-called raids on terrorist launch-pads across the LoC. Kadakin said the military exercise with Pakistan was in fact intended to encourage that country not to target its neighbour.
From “The News”:

Russia frustrates Indian efforts to isolate Pakistan
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by deejay »

Gagan wrote:deejay mian,
You're right, I didn't notice it at first.
The map is from a blog, the boundary is wrong. It actually represents china's claim line, not india's actual borders
Thanks for pointing that out :)
Only because I have been caught with my pants down too recently. :)
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Re: Possible Chinese Involvement in Uri - Part VIII

Post by SSridhar »

*Long post*
Rudradev wrote:With your permission I would like to poke some holes in it.
RD, welcome to do so. My initial post could be more fleshed out in the process.

Before, we look at the three tactical questions that you asked, I would like to consider the Chinese strategy in Pakistan, the CPEC's Indian impact and the CPEC status today. They are related to the issue on hand, namely my conjecture that PRC may have had a hand in the Uri attack.

IMO, China has concluded (may be quite sometime back) that Pakistan could not be saved from being dissolved as an entity, either by India or internal subversion due to various reasons or a combination of both. They cannot be faulted for this conclusion, This is a nightmare scenario for it due to several reasons, not the least of which are, and in no particular order:
  • Its nuclear weapons and the missiles in Pakistani storage
  • Its loss of control over jihadi tanzeems from absorbing/training Uyghurs, which it has so far been successfully managing through blandishments, bribes and pressure
  • Loss of the cat's paw which is being used to keep India confined to the South Asia quagmire and leading more importantly, for China to deal directly with India, a situation it relishes
  • Loss of Gwadar for PLAN and the oil & gas pipelines to Kashgar
  • The failure of the flagship CPEC project, a precursor to other SilkRoad projects
  • Loss of access to the riches of Afghanistan
  • Failure of the encirclement strategy of India
  • Total loss of face that all the might of China could not prevent disintegration of its biggest ally in the world
So, the Chinese strategy is to be tactical and prolong the existence of Pakistan as a state in its present form & content for as long as possible, in order to tackle the enemy, India, and in the process make gains geoeconomically, geopolitically as much as possible and gain stability in Xinjiang. Khunjerab Pass and Gilgit-Baltistan are the fulcrum of China's India policy. The moment CPEC was formulated, China moved its forces into GB to secure it and advised Pakistan to politically & constitutionally make it as another Pakistani province, no longer to be referred merely as 'Northern Areas'.

The CPEC posed a great dilemma to the Indian strategic community in 2014. The Modi government had just assumed power. It needed time to develop a strategy, to develop linkages with world leaders, and be firmly in saddle. There were always tactical India-Pakistan situations that needed attention - an attack here or another one there (for example, Herat Consulate attack on the very day of assumption of power by Modi)-, depriving it of attention to long-term strategies. China was putting pressure on India to join the project, and be generally on its side in its geopolitical & geoeconomic approaches etc. For example, the formation of AIIB. Nimble-footed China knew that Modi was deeply committed to improving infrastructure and the idea of India joining the Bank was immediately mooted during the visit of Indian Vice President Hamid Ansari to China in June 2014. CPEC was posing a great challenge to the nascent Modi government as it had to carefully choose between not looking 'confrontational' with the Chinese leadership who were wooing India and at the same time protecting the Indian strategic interests which not only included territorial claims (GB, Shaksgam Valley) but also its geopolitical equations with countries such as the USA & Japan. CPEC is a direct challenge to India's sovereignty over all areas of the erstwhile Princely state of J&K. So, India has been forthright on its stance with respect to CPEC whose glib-talking efforts have failed with us.

China is desperate about Pakistan. It indulged Zardari (who forced himself upon the Chinese to the point of annoyance by visiting them every month), it indulged the Sharif brothers with the hope that they would facilitate a smooth implementation of the CPEC. But, they are unable to deliver as they have not only failed miserably in forging a political unanimity but also showing signs of collapsing any minute. The political situation in Pakistan is so fraught that the Chinese are nervous about the implementation of its most ambitious and defining project. It is a great risk to invest in Pakistan at any time but to stake the entire future of Silk Road project on a shaky Pakistan is the riskiest venture, but the Chinese are forced by circumstances to do so. The Army has cleverly manipulated the Tehrik-e-Insaf and the Canadian cleric Tahir-ul-Qadri to successfully bring governance to a grinding halt every now and then. They have also used the Panama Gate to the same effect and make Nawaz Sharif look very shaky. But, Nawaz Sharif is not budging on handing over CPEC to the PA. The Chinese would want to sew this up before the next Chief came in.

Speaking on the 89th founding day of the PLA, Gen. Raheel Sharif said, very pointedly, "Our resolve to break the nexus between terrorists, criminality and corruption is unflinching. Pakistan Army and PLA form the edifice of our overall strategic relations". He also promised to "leave no stone unturned" to provide security to the CPEC project. Gen. Raheel Sharif even conducted a cabinet meeting at GHQ on June 7, 2016 when Nawaz Sharif was undergoing heart surgery at London. That meeting was dedicated to deliberating on the challenges to the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. After the meeting, the ISPR statement spoke of "not allowing hostile intelligence agencies and their unnamed facilitators to foment trouble in the country, and protecting core national interests and countering any negative outside influence”. What is even more striking is that immediately after the meeting, the army chief received Chinese Ambassador to Pakistan Sun Weidong in his office for a discussion on “regional security and the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor”. A month later, Gen. Sharif visisted China, incidentally to Urmqui to meet his Chinese counterpart where he pledged to firmly crack down on terrorist forces. The PA is spreading false information about India sabotaging the CPEC project just so that the management of the project would fall into their lap as the Chinese also desire. The kidnapping of Kulbushan Jadhav from Iran is a part of that project.

The CPEC project is completely opaque for even the Chief Ministers of Sindh, Balochistan & KP. Only the Punjab CM, Shahbaz Sharif and the Army Chief Gen. Raheel Sharif visit China and discusses the project. The PA, predominantly Punjabi, has no problems with the Punjab-centricity of the project and the other three provinces being ignored. However, the other three provinces are agitated greatly.

The only institution that the Chinese can turn to is the Pakistani Army. The Chinese are impatient because they are bereft of any lever vis-a-vis the ruling political elite at this stage, though they have indulged Nawaz & Shahbaz Sharif regularly. The resolution of the question of who manages the CPEC implementation is crucial now. The Chinese have reached a limit now as the political class is unwilling to be pushed on the management of the CPEC project any further, even by the Chinese!

And to add to their woes, the unpredictable Modi mentioned Balochistan, totally out of the blue in his I-Day message. That has stirred the pot. I posted here the reaction of one of China’s South Asia experts, Hu Shisheng (director of state-run think-tank Institute of South and Southeast Asian and Oceanian Studies at the China Institute of Contemporary International Relations affiliated to the Chinese foreign ministry). He said, “My personal view is that if India is adamant and if Indian factor is found by China or Pakistan in disrupting the process of CPEC (China-Pakistan Economic Corridor), if that becomes a reality, it will really become a disturbance to China-India relations, India-Pakistan relations. If that happens China and Pakistan could have no other way but take united steps. I want to say that the Pakistan factor could surge again to become the most disturbing factor in China-India relations, even more than the Tibet, border and trade imbalance issues. I think the two countries (China and Pakistan) will do whatsoever to enhance the security and smooth construction of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. But what kind of forms I have no idea. I am just wondering whether military involvement could be one of the choices but in my personal view, it is very unlikely. If Indian concern is too much, China is also one part of the Kashmir issue. If the accession (area by Pakistan to China) is regarded by India as one part of the problem then let the three of us sit down to talk. In the past Chinese scholars are not so much concerned about India-US ties. We strongly believed that India's strategic independence can be trusted and can be maintained. In recent years, Indian strategic independence is facing some challenges because of security issues. The cooperation has been going really far more forward in the past one year”. Since China expresses its foreign policy opinions through such myriad opinion-makers and think-tanks, this must be understood by India as a definite Chinese warning. This opinion was followed by an editorial in the Global Times which said that since CPEC "passes through some turbulent regions, Kashmir included" there can be potential "setbacks".

Early last month, Gen. Raheel Sharif announced in GB that the PA was aware of the nefarious design of Modi regarding CPEC and would provide 'fool-proof security. It has been 'leaked' that during his frequent trips to China Gen. Raheel Sharif has been blaming India for the delays & confusion regarding CPEC. Roughly one-fourth of the CPEC projects (USD 11.5B) are delayed or being axed. In January 2016, the Chinese embassy in Islamabad openly expressed concern and asked the relevant parties to "address their differences in order to create favourable conditions".

1) On what basis can we say China knew "fully well" that India would retaliate for Uri? I don't know if the Pakis were even expecting such a high number of Indian KIA at Uri; most of the deaths were because of tents catching fire. Even if they fully expected 18 deaths, why would they think we would behave any differently this time than after Pathankot? On the contrary, I think PA and ISI were lulled by our non-response to Pathankot into thinking that Modi turned out to be a Hindu Bania solely interested in economic growth, and could thus be needled ad infinitum because he would never do anything to jeopardize the Indian economy.
May be "fully well" was an overstatement. But, some response must have been expected after killing 19 soldiers. Kaluchak did not see retaliation because it was part of the "Twin Peaks" of 2001-2002 and mobilization was already on and a confrontation was in the works with the Americans working over time to defuse the crisis. This time, it was different. The US-Pakistani relationship is in the doldrums, while the US-India relationship is quite high and the need for the US to intervene is not as much as it was in 2002. No Army, no country can let go after such a brazen attack of killing so many soldiers. That this government meant business was known after the June 2015 strikes inside Myanmar at NSCN-K camps after a similar episode of 18 Indian soldiers being killed. A few months' later, there was a similar strike in the same theatre which was played down. Even diplomatically, India has taken tough, unbending stances since May 2014. As for the large number of 'surprise' KIA, the attackers fully expected a significant Indian casualty because they deliberately chose incendiary phosphorous bombs to set fire to tents. It may be that hitting a fuel tank/pump added to the misery of the sleeping soldiers, but the attackers planned it well and knew exactly what they were doing and the likely fatalities. There is enormous difference between PAFB & Uri attacks. The only similarity is both were military targets. The Pathankot attack came immediately after a surprise visit by Modi to Lahore and it was probably felt that so sudden an attack after the visit could have been only mounted by the usual suspects, thereby giving some leeway to the civilian government. However, the Uri attack came at a different time. Pakistan had stoked a deep unrest in the Kashmir valley for several months and the Pakistani civilian government was in the forefront running the show. Pakistan Army & China couldn't have expected it to go unpunished especially with a so-called 'nationalist 56-inch chest' government. The surgical strikes were meant to convey message to four parties, the Pakistani Army, its Chinese backers, the Pakistani civilian government and the 'world community'. By all accounts, it looks like that he PA/ISI were totally deceived by crafty Indian armed forces.
2) When even close watchers of the India-TSP situation like us on BRF were surprised at the 28/9 surgical strike, would the Chinese/PA/JeM have bet on such an unprecedented Indian response to help Raheel Sharif secure an extension? It would seem a long shot.
As stated above, any country, especially 'Paranoidistan', must have expected a response after Uri-type attack. In fact, such a strike adds to the paranoia and strengthens the PA's demand to hand over CPEC implementation to itself.
3) In fact, if the whole thing was a trap laid with full expectation of an Indian surgical strike in response, why weren't PA well prepared for the Indian incursion so that Raheel could claim a victory by giving a mooh-thod jawab? Wouldn't that have made a far better case for his extension than this kerfuffle of PA being caught 400% on the backfoot, and then running around trying to deny the strike ever happened?
PA was well-prepared for some other form of attack as we saw with closing down GB airspace, PAF CAPs, PAF exercises, fighters landing on highways, Lahore/Karachi airspace restrictions, naval deployments etc., but not what happened eventually. The mooh-thod jawab fell apart. For some reason, JeM is a blue-eyed boy of China, for whose leaders China has been strenuously applying technical-hold in UNSC since c. 2009. Probably, the Chinese are sure that Nawaz would not extend the term of Gen. Raheel Sharif and they would like the CPEC management issue to be settled before he left as they might not be sure of the newcomer and in any case, it would take time for him to settle down etc. What is better for the Chinese (and perhaps Gen. Raheel Sharif) than to precipitate a limited skirmish on the LoC (of which there are dozens and they never escalated uncontrollably, the Chinese would know the history) and spin stories about India targeting CPEC? But, the wily fox India took the wind out of the sail, by not indiscriminately attacking Pakistan, not employing air power etc, but by labelling it as a counter-terror op and targeting precisely the launch-pads of the terrorists, informing the Pakistani DGMO of Indian action and announcing the end of operations etc.
Instigating the PA/ISI terror attack at Uri seems a very risky strategy though, and not typical of the Chinese. It may have been far less risky to (say) stage a spectacular terrorist attack against hapless Pakistani Christians or something... then have Raheel step forward as the sole guarantor of Pakistan's internal security, buffing his Zarb-e-Kabr credentials.
For China, there is no risk involved. Nobody suspects a China hand, doesn't it? If there was an escalation, it was for Pakistan to absorb it and possibly China would work extra-hard along with the US to defuse the situation and prevent it from spiralling out of control. But, China would have gamed all that because it knows that if at all, India would go for punitive strikes but not for a total war for this reason. We have to recall the extraordinary support provided to JeM by China including the latest ridiculous defence it has put up yesterday of there being no unanimity in the UNSC 1267 Committee. This support to JeM goes seven years back. After LeT was blacklisted, which was inevitable considering the 26/11 attacks and multiple nationalities being killed in a much televised urban warfare, Masood Azhar and his JeM have been resurrected and LeT cadres are attacking India with the JeM tag. Though the two pro-Sarkari jihadist tanzeems have collaborated with the PA in attacking India for a long time now, the LeT was always preponderant simply by virtue of its numbers, resources and clout. But, these days, we hear more and more of JeM with LeT playing a second fiddle. The proximity, on the one hand, between PRC & PA, combined with the facts that it is JeM that is playing more active role in terror these days and that China is going to ridiculous extents to support a terrorist organization such as JeM repeatedly, each time offering more and more ridiculous excuses, makes one very suspicious. By the way, China is not averse to taking risks. Its nuclear, missile proliferations, very risky support for DPRK & flouting of UNCLOS on Indo-China Sea or the NSG in grand-fathering Pakistani n-reactors are there for all to see. The Deng Xiaoping restriction on 'risky' foreign intel activities (after the 1985 episode) have been rescinded by Xi Jinping.
SSharma
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by SSharma »

^^sridhar saar, this is the reason ive been a brf lurker for years
deejay
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by deejay »

Christine C Fair had made a presentation at Pune International Center on CPEC. Here is my point by point rebuttal:

https://www.myind.net/critique-prof-c-c ... s-pakistan

All criticism and comments welcome.
zoverian
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by zoverian »

SSharma wrote:^^sridhar saar, this is the reason ive been a brf lurker for years

+1
Gagan
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Post by Gagan »

Uri, I think was supposed to not have been this big. It was another one of the numerous attacks that Pak Mil does against IA.
These guys thought, nawaz in UN, so lets make some noise in the valley. They might have planned a follow up on stone pelting or some civil unrest post these attacks, but the severity and loss of lives turned the game around.

China I think has a hand in the sense that they've surely asked La La Land to protect CPEC & put their faith in Pak Fauj for this. Pak fauj, for all their bluster, understand that they can't really provide fool proof security to anything, given that they are extremely heavily terrorist infested. So they do the only thing they can do, that is to unsettle india in whichever way they can.

These guys think that the Khalistani movement prevented India back in the day from heating up their eastern border, so trouble in J&K will keep India at bay.
Both partners in crime, China & Pakistan are probably VERY alarmed at PM Modi's thanking people in both Balochistan and POK/GB.
So anything is possible with these two
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