Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Philip » 06 Oct 2016 13:29

Ha!Ha! Spon on.
"This is like saying when Altsom /Bombardier/GE/Hitachi set up loco and rolling stock plants here, they will go and poach from ICF Perambur, RCF Kapurthala, Chittaranjan LW or Diesel LW at Varanasi. No way."

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 06 Oct 2016 14:44

vina wrote:
All they can do is poach from HAL or others, which will impact current projects

You couldnt be more wrong . All they are going to do is screwdrivergiri. What HAL did for 50 years, those guys are going to do with a new name outside in a new place. That is all.


I agree with JTull here, that they will poach employees from HAL or other govt labs. These guys will set up the business for Chhota Bhai. The head of Reliance Aero biz is from HAL, some one was telling me the other day. A lot of the engg services companies in BLR are set up from scratch by people from govt organisations.

Of coarse they will hire lots of freshies to do the menial jobs but you need someone to tell them what to do and for that you need experienced people. HAL et all is obvious talent bank for that. Chhota bhai only has money, no experience of running Aerospace business and you can build it using just a bunch of MBAs.

And those guys also are not gonna do any hi-fi RnD. Just set up the teams which can handle the work, set up processes, give them bacis minimum training etc.

The poaching may not be large scale, but even loss of few key people can have significant impact on existing program. Aerospace is not IT that you can just replace someone overnight. Experience matters a great deal, even so on the shop floor.

You should see the hubris of some of the companies in BLR - they want TFTA academic credentials/experience with PhD and all from candidates, only to make him work on menial types of jobs which even a BE guy could do with 3month training. And they get people because they pay good mullah. So even if Reliance will only do screwdrivergiri, it doesn't mean they will not go and hire best possible from the industry.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JTull » 06 Oct 2016 15:13

I've edited my post to say what I meant.

Bhailog are ultra focussed on costs and Indian manpower is cheap. Give anyone from HAL a 100% raise and they still will come out cheaper than firang overseers. Besides desi engineers know how to get work from desi ITI graduates.

Nakal ke liye bhi akal chahiye.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby VinodTK » 08 Oct 2016 23:09

IAF kicks off contest to make single-engine fighters in India
A global contest has restarted for supplying India a medium, multi-role fighter, with the Indian Air Force (IAF) inviting top international fighter jet manufacturers to set up a production facility in India.
:
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While Boeing, Eurofighter, RAC MiG, Sukhoi and Dassault would technically be able to respond to the latest RFI, none of them can offer a state-of-the-art, medium, single-engine fighter. Therefore, it seems likely that New Delhi would have to choose between Saab’s Gripen E, and Lockheed Martin’s latest F-16 Block 70.
:
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Air Headquarters insiders say there is little chance of India buying the F-16, a significantly advanced version of the Block 50/52 that the Pakistan Air Force operates. Since Washington is aware of this important bias, it remains to be seen whether the US seizes this opportunity to offer India the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, a state-of-the-art fifth-generation fighter.
:
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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Karthik S » 08 Oct 2016 23:18

Hope this won't be another MRCA saga. That was enough for one life time.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Sid » 09 Oct 2016 00:41



I hope this nation is not stupid enough to go down this path.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Bhaskar_T » 09 Oct 2016 01:37

Why write to Moscow, formality? They don't have any single engine fighter which we would want.

And why US doesn't stop Saab Gripen sales since Gripen uses F414 engine offers competition to F-16? (Though anticompetition laws can prevent this but who would mess with USA).

India should ask F-35, good for IAF and IN, order 300 of them. 200 goes to IAF and rest 100 to IN (in future it replaces Mig-29).

Business Standard has learned that Indian embassies in Washington, Moscow and Stockholm wrote on Friday to fighter jet manufacturers in these countries to confirm whether they would partner an Indian company in building a medium, single-engine fighter, with significant transfer of technology to the Indian entity

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Karan M » 09 Oct 2016 02:27

Sid wrote:


I hope this nation is not stupid enough to go down this path.


We clearly are.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Cybaru » 09 Oct 2016 02:29

Bhaskar_T wrote:India should ask F-35, good for IAF and IN, order 300 of them. 200 goes to IAF and rest 100 to IN (in future it replaces Mig-29).


Yeah F-35 for local manufacture! that will be the day... :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby MadhuG » 09 Oct 2016 07:26

HAL should contest with the Tejas.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Pratyush » 09 Oct 2016 07:57

It ajay sulk law.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 09 Oct 2016 09:42

Sid wrote:


I hope this nation is not stupid enough to go down this path.

I have a question in this connection:
viewtopic.php?p=2055514#p2055514

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby deejay » 09 Oct 2016 09:55

MadhuG wrote:HAL should contest with the Tejas.


+1008
Absolutely. It is the best that there is at a price point no one can match. Someone, reach out to HAL please and ask them to bid.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 09 Oct 2016 10:35

^^We know how the tenders are framed right?? If they don't want HAL in they will put some clause/s which will disqualify HAL from bidding.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby deejay » 09 Oct 2016 10:46

JayS wrote:^^We know how the tenders are framed right?? If they don't want HAL in they will put some clause/s which will disqualify HAL from bidding.


Whats the harm in trying Sir. If its blocked, we will know. The backlash will then be unleashed.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 09 Oct 2016 11:21

Of coarse no harm. I am just saying, if GOI and IAF have decided to go for something from outside, they will make sure HAL is disqualified no matter what.

I would love HAL to put forth LCA against F16 or Gripen NG and would see it winning. But for that HAL need to make a lot of noise/lobbying on its own, even while going against its masters seating in Delhi. Would they find courage for that?? Also What HAL has to offer in return to GOI and to IAF?? GOI might be looking this offer as quid pro quo for something. Clearly we still don't think having domestic MIC has largest strategic value in long term.


Its such a shame we are even discussing this when Tejas has already arrived. If they just want numbers quickly then they should just double the order for MK1A, allow for 2nd line to set up ASAP, pump in more money in LCA to increase man power, test facilities etc to expedite the program. Anyway this tender thing will take minimum 1/2 yrs for processing and new fighter will come only after 3yrs then onwards - total of 4-5yrs. By then we can have MK1A rolling out in 16/yr or 24/yr.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Pratyush » 09 Oct 2016 11:35

What makes people think that the competition is not for a Pvt sector company to make tejas.

While HAL operating one line and the Pvt player operating the second line.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 09 Oct 2016 12:28

Do you mean foreign company manufacturing Tejas??

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Pratyush » 09 Oct 2016 12:34

A domestic company making tejas, either alone or in collaboration with a foreign jv partner.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 09 Oct 2016 12:40

this tender is the fallout of the MRCA rafale being too expensive to afford in the desired 126 number to replace all the jaguars, mig27 going out of service. some 200 airframes surely retiring.

looks like Tejas production run will be around 120 to replace all the Bisons and thats it.

so basically the rafale=36 is probably a kind of evolutionary dead end as all funds will be earmarked for this single engine line.

Su30 might not see new orders beyond the planned 272. MLUs will happen.

whether the loaded cost of a new type like F-16/F18/Gripen-E with its weapons pkgs and ground systems is too much diff from a loaded rafale remains to be seen. opex of F18 will surely be similar being twin engines.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 09 Oct 2016 12:42

even our enemies will be deeply confused by this gehri chaal.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 09 Oct 2016 12:53

^^ :rotfl: :rotfl:

On a serious note, what is it that Mig27 can do and this other bideshi fighter that we intend to buy can also do but Tejas Mk1A cannot?

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Bhaskar_T » 09 Oct 2016 13:57

Now what, we start comparing F-16 Block 70 and Gripen-NG? Another MMRCA Single Engine Fighter thread in this lifetime?

If it is meant for Tejas production by domestic player (Tata/Mahindra/L&T) with foreign collaboration, France and Russia might be interested since they do not have a single engine fighter aircraft with latest upgrades.

Saab might be interested, going by their consultancy promises on Mk1A/Mk2/AMCA but it would definitely want Gripen orders. On one hand, Saab can help arresting falling squadron numbers,but they do not bring engine/stealth know-how. Nor do they bring any political weight behind them. (Does Gripen have a Naval version?)

First choice should be Dassault Aviation takingup this project but given their pity contribution in Kaveri, i am sure they will only want Rafale to be sold.

I doubt if LM would be interested in providing tuition to Indian Pvt Player to teach how to make Tejas. It pains me to say go ahead with F-16 but then we should make sure that LM support us for Mk2/AMCA and GE provides the full engine-tech (under DTII umbrella).

Russians have long borders, big continent, they have settled on 2 engine plane Air Force long ago. Chai-biscuit consultancy is all they going to do for this tender or RFI.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby rgosain » 09 Oct 2016 15:59

If India wants to kill the nascent ecosystem that it has developed around the LCA involving composites, FBW, integration etc then go for the F16.
The question is this; will the F16 be able to integrate Astra, Bramhos, or any Indian weapon systems etc without invalidating the end-user agreements that DC will insist on? There is no guarantee that GE or the LM will be participating in any tech transfer or engine development for the LCA, which will have to be sacrificed for the F16, and the monetary costs would be in USD.
Back in the 1960's the UK sacrificed the TSR2 project for closer cooperation with US the on aerospace and Polaris. Since then the UK has had to participate in partnerships for key fighter projects like the Typhoon or JSF. Countries that buy in US aerospace lines lose the ability to exploit and develop future aerospace technologies.
In the short term the optimal route for single engine aircraft would be to purchase more Mig-29 such as the type used by the Navy to augment the existing fleet whilst expanding LCA/LCA2 productions. Even with the reliability issues surrounding the Mig29 engine, the IN seems happy with it and the saved funds could be used for further development on the LCA2.

A lot of Indians tend to know the price of everything, but the value of nothing

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Rakesh » 09 Oct 2016 17:43

rgosain: well said.

The F-16 will not come. That would be an extremely dumb decision the IAF would take and thus it will not happen. If the Business Standard article is true - that the IAF is only interested in single engine fighters - then it is the Gripen NG. It shares the same engine as the Tejas. But just like with Snecma reviving the Kaveri project, the jewels will be kept close to Snecma's heart. The same will be with General Electric. Just wise corporate sense, nothing else.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 09 Oct 2016 18:12

Bhaskar_T wrote:GE provides the full engine-tech (under DTII umbrella).


I have said it before, I will say again, we can never pay enough to GE/Uncle Sam which will make them share key engine tech with us.

How much we are willing to pay GE to share this full engine tech haan ji?? Whatever is our 'aukat', that's mere peanuts for GE and for Uncle Sam in turn. No amount of money or orders can make GE share critical engine tech. Forget that Uncle Sam's might stand behind their key defense companies. Even if you consider GE standalone they have $140B of order book for engines alone currently. How much do you think we can contribute to that and how much could be impact on the overall picture of it for GE??

considering 300 jets (Tejas + second 2engine jet) and $4M per engine (Value from USN contact of 200+ F414 for $800M in 2013) = $1.2B.

Even to make GE create and sell a custom made F414 engine for India we will have to shell out $0.5-1B over and above this value.

Now imagine how much money we will have to pay to GE so they share their crown jewel tech with us?? Will it be worth for us??

Even if we have to pay in non-tangible geo-political terms we will have to literally bend backwards for this, and that also might not be sufficient.

In significantly less investment in desh, leaveraging our low costs of developments we can develop our own engine tech at home. Alas no one is willing to invest and show patience to wait long enough.

US woudlnt share its engine tech with its chaddy buddies for whatever price. In fact they crippled their aerospace industry to eliminate any competition whatsoever and today entire NATO is dependent on US directly. What is so special about India that US would be willing to share anything with us and help create a rival to itself??

And let's say due to some divine intervention US does share the entire engine tech with us, it will come with so many restrictions that it will be practically be useless for us to use anywhere else than the one particular engine. they will make sure that we cannot build any other engine using that same tech in coming future which could jeopardize their business in other segments.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Viv S » 09 Oct 2016 18:20

Pratyush wrote:It ajay sulk law.

Also reported by Dinaker Peri -


Finally, search begins for a fighter to replace MiG-21s

DINAKAR PERI

Within days of signing the deal to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from France, the Defence Ministry has issued a Request For Information (RFI) to global aircraft manufacturers, formally starting the process to select yet another fighter to be built in India under technology transfer.

Sources told The Hindu that an RFI for a single-engine fighter to be manufactured in India with extensive technology transfer was issued this week to countries involved in fighter aircraft manufacture. Based on the responses, a detailed RFP (Request for Proposal) would be issued later.

Last month, India and France concluded a government-to-government deal worth €7.87-billion deal for 36 Rafale multi-role jets in flyaway condition.

The selected aircraft is expected to replace the large number of MiG-21s in service, which will be phased out over the next few years.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has stated in the past that the Rafale, a medium-weight jet, is not a replacement for MiG-21s and another aircraft would be selected to replace the latter. He has also said these would be built in partnership with the private sector.

Addressing the Indian Air Force on the 84th raising day, Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Arup Raha observed that an “early decision on indigenous ‘Make in India’ fighter aircraft project would greatly enhance our operational capability in the near term.”

Boeing and Lockheed Martin of the U.S. and SAAB of Sweden have already submitted detailed proposals to manufacture their F-18, F-16 and Gripen jets respectively in India under the ‘Make in India’ initiative.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Viv S » 09 Oct 2016 18:44

rgosain wrote:If India wants to kill the nascent ecosystem that it has developed around the LCA involving composites, FBW, integration etc then go for the F16.
The question is this; will the F16 be able to integrate Astra, Bramhos, or any Indian weapon systems etc without invalidating the end-user agreements that DC will insist on? There is no guarantee that GE or the LM will be participating in any tech transfer or engine development for the LCA, which will have to be sacrificed for the F16, and the monetary costs would be in USD.

Whatever tech transfer is proposed will be spelled out by LM when it makes its pitch to the MoD. The MoD will factor that in while comparing the overall offer to Saab's proposed package.

Back in the 1960's the UK sacrificed the TSR2 project for closer cooperation with US the on aerospace and Polaris. Since then the UK has had to participate in partnerships for key fighter projects like the Typhoon or JSF. Countries that buy in US aerospace lines lose the ability to exploit and develop future aerospace technologies.

I'm afraid that is incorrect. The TSR-2 was cancelled because it was prohibitively expensive, and the F-111K was selected as its replacement. However, that plan fell through as well and the RAF ended up inducting the Buccaneer S.2 instead.

Partnerships were opted for on the Jaguar, Harrier II, Tornado and Eurofighter to share the development costs. BAC/BAE had the technical wherewithal to develop all four types in-house. The JSF project meanwhile has been an absolute windfall for the UK. In return for an investment of about $4 bn, it received direct development work as well as an industrial workshare worth over $40 bn (at current prices) over the next few decades.

In the short term the optimal route for single engine aircraft would be to purchase more Mig-29 such as the type used by the Navy to augment the existing fleet whilst expanding LCA/LCA2 productions. Even with the reliability issues surrounding the Mig29 engine, the IN seems happy with it and the saved funds could be used for further development on the LCA2.

With a serviceability rate of a measly 16-38%, I doubt the IN is feeling very pleased at the moment. The optimal route to bolster numbers would be to pick up as many second hand Mirages as are available, while augmenting the Tejas' production capacity at a war footing (which in turn requires a significantly larger order book).

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 09 Oct 2016 20:26

@VivS

Hw many M2k are available for buy now?? And hw much would be the upgrading cost?? I think those available are of more advanced level that what we had so the upgrade costs should be less than the $45M a pop that we have to spend on our fleet. Another advantage is we do have the capability to upgrade at HAL itself. M2K have exceptional availability and can be used as N-delivery platform as well.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Viv S » 09 Oct 2016 20:52

JayS wrote:@VivS

Hw many M2k are available for buy now?? And hw much would be the upgrading cost?? I think those available are of more advanced level that what we had so the upgrade costs should be less than the $45M a pop that we have to spend on our fleet. Another advantage is we do have the capability to upgrade at HAL itself. M2K have exceptional availability and can be used as N-delivery platform as well.

Qatar & UAE have between them nearly 80 operational of which at least 30-40 could be available for re-export. The MoD will have to coordinate with the French who're trying to sell the Rafale as a replacement to the Emiratis.

Upgrade costs for these will be minimal; the aircraft are already at Dash5 Mk2 standard (similar to the IAF's upgraded units). They'll need to be upgraded with domestic IFF & comms but that's about it. The weapons complement however will be pricey, so it may be cheaper to fund a the integration of the Astra & Python-5 to the type.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Arjunn » 09 Oct 2016 21:18

Sid wrote:


I hope this nation is not stupid enough to go down this path.


This nation is composed of mostly illiterates and semi-illiterates who are deliberately kept in this state by our stellar political heroes to perpetuate easy looting without anybody to question the loot, and this nation's course is decided by the aforementioned stellar heroes. These politicians never let any opportunity go waste where money can be milked into their coffers at the country's expense. LCA is single engined, Indian, but no, our political superstars can't milk money for themselves from the LCA. Now, we are going to see the nautanki start again and this time the milkers will be superstars from the BJP stable. Anybody still think the BJP is good for our defense forces!...think again with how the Rafale offset went to...lolz...Reliance...with their vast experience...lolz...in warplane production. Just another whitewash to pump money into political coffers with Ambani being the middleman here.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Suresh S » 09 Oct 2016 21:36

I love the BJP but part of me wants to agree with the above, Why we want to rx our own creation like a sautela beta.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Vivek K » 09 Oct 2016 21:46

It simply shows lack of maturity of the Indian nation. The slave has not yet shaken off slavery and still pines for his masters! Keep buying "imported aircraft" and ultimately have India's foreign policy governed by suppliers.

Any other nation - especially China would have built 500-1000 Mk1As @ 25-50 a/c per year.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Austin » 09 Oct 2016 22:03

Indian Air Force Day 2016 - Conference


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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ldev » 09 Oct 2016 22:04

The Gripen, especially the Gripen E appears to be quite an aircraft, no wonder the ACM went to Sweden to test fly it.

Cleared for US i.e. AMRAAM, Sidewinder as well as European i.e. Meteor missiles.(common with Rafale)
AESA (Selex/Raven)
IRST built in
Cleared for Rafael LItening pod (common with other IAF fighters)
GE-414 engine (potentially common with Tejas)
Ability to operate from short landing strips (800 meters)
Quick turnaround time (10 minutes between missions)
Ability to supercruise for air to air mission (with 4 AAMs)
Claimed to have the lowest operating cost per flying hour of any current aircraft.
Interoperability with NATO/US Air Force.
Top speed of Mach 2 (which the IAF flyboys will love!!). They dont like slow moving bomb trucks!!

As far as the Tejas vs imported figher issue is concerned, the primary responsibility of the Defence MInister is to ensure the defence of India. Whether that is done via imported or home built weapons is a secondary responsbility. With 200+ Mig 21s, 27s etc to be phased out over the next few years, can any Defence Minister in good conscience in terms of his primary responsibility of the defence of India gamble and say that he is going to rely 100% on Tejas? Of all it's problems being ironed out, of HAL being able to meet every deadline going forward? Or will a prudent Defence Minister hedge his bets and say that let's order 120 Tejas from HAL but let us also hedge our bets by getting 120 single engine aircraft from a proven manufacturer under the Make in India program especially if they are relatively cost efficient?

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby la.khan » 09 Oct 2016 23:59

So, what are our options here for the single engine replacement for Mig21s? Broadly, Tejas (Mk1A,II, whatever flavour) Vs. Gripen E vs. F16. Setting aside the strengths of each, focus on the vulnerabilities. As I see it, Amirkhan engine vs. Amirkhan engine vs. Amirkhan plane :roll: :eek: Whichever we choose, if we ever decide to resume nuclear testing, it looks as likely a significant portion (30-35%) of our combat jets will be prone to US sanctions :((

ldev wrote:As far as the Tejas vs imported figher issue is concerned, the primary responsibility of the Defence MInister is to ensure the defence of India. Whether that is done via imported or home built weapons is a secondary responsbility. With 200+ Mig 21s, 27s etc to be phased out over the next few years, can any Defence Minister in good conscience in terms of his primary responsibility of the defence of India gamble and say that he is going to rely 100% on Tejas? Of all it's problems being ironed out, of HAL being able to meet every deadline going forward? Or will a prudent Defence Minister hedge his bets and say that let's order 120 Tejas from HAL but let us also hedge our bets by getting 120 single engine aircraft from a proven manufacturer under the Make in India program especially if they are relatively cost efficient?

Nothing said here by BRFites or by shooklaws or by netas or babus or top airforce brass in corridors of Nai Dilli will matter in the face of stark, naked reality: FALLING SQUADRON STRENGTH. We have spent 10-12 years on the MMRCA circus and we are yet to conclusively arrest fall in combat squadrons. Is it not time to get real and order a proven jet fighter that has great commonality with Tejas (engine, avionics, ability to fire missiles like Astra etc)?

ldev listed a bunch of areas where Gripen E does well. IAF and Saab know MMRCA test parameters that Gripen E failed; if Saab can work on the gaps, can assure on commonality with Tejas, help with Tejas Mk1A, we should be in good shape. No?

By 2035, IAF should be
Tejas: 120
Gripen:120
Rafale: 36
AMCA: 100
30MKI: 272
FGFA: 250

Total: 900 or 45 squadrons

As an aside, will BRF have a new separate thread for the single engine combat jet tamasha? :P

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Vivek K » 10 Oct 2016 02:28

Ldev your post is garbage! The LCA is very capable of handling India's defense as well as the Grippen. The question that should also be taken into account here is that how many possible Indian Jobs will be lost in handing over the order to imports. Economic well being and economic security of the country are equally important!

And India's experience of more than 50 years of transfer of technology is that it does zero for local ability and industry.

All I can say is that BJP seems to be morphing into the Congress- needs funding for the election and so is ruining the industrial setup by giving absurd import orders.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Vivek K » 10 Oct 2016 02:43

If there was so much concern about falling squadron strength they should have ordered 100 LCA mark 1s and - a) Qatari Mirages plus b) Additional Mig29s upgraded to current IAF standard.

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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Cybaru » 10 Oct 2016 02:57

They might as well restart the mig-21 line if they are going to start importing 3rd gen dead lines like mirage, f-16 and some of the cheap single engine worthies. I don't understand this dog and pony show.

Ramu
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Re: Indian Air Force News and Discussion - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Ramu » 10 Oct 2016 03:31

I suspect current ACM is a leftover from UPA inner cricles.


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