Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 19 Oct 2016 22:09

Some more RW context RE: previous content of this thread....

AdityaM wrote:Can the inexpensive 'amazon' like delivery drones be used to custom deliver & drop incendiary grenades on terrorist camps without the need for our men to personally do this.
And it can be used to guarantee same day Prime delivery of 72v

deliver in dead of windless night and scoot. why is it still far from reality?

(might sound like a kiddish fantasy which will attract the brf mighty to start dissing), but again why can this not be done?

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ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Oct 2016 22:32

Ravi, Look at the fight in Mosul.
Looks like countering snipers is an important task.

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 19 Oct 2016 23:10

Thanks JEM!

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 21 Oct 2016 11:26

I was reading "panchatantra" and according to Vishnu sharma, we should do land grabbing now. Otherwise, these cross LoC strikes are useless.

भूमिमित्रं हिरण्यं च विग्रहस्य फलत्रयं
नास्त्येकमपि यद्येषां न तत् कुर्यात्कथन्चन [249]

Land, friend and gold these three are the gains of the war.
If even one of them is not gained,
then one should not venture after anything.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Oct 2016 16:54

Is it possible to have a remotely operated machine gun, like say the T-90 or the Arjun MK-2s remotely operated anti air gunassembly, mounted on a telescopic crane, and a few of these deployed around a building, like say in pampore?
These could look into windows from a height, one by one, assist regular troops and take out the jihadis.
Make it well protected, because these will take a lot of small arms fire
One modification could be it being able to deploy smoke/chilli/incendiary grenades so that there is area denial.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 21 Oct 2016 20:52

https://twitter.com/gauravcsawant/statu ... 1906962432
"BSF: We've killed 7 Pak rangers & 1 terrorist in counterfire at international border Hiranagar sector, J&K."

BSF joins the battle.

gaurav_w · Post by **gaurav_w** » 21 Oct 2016 21:15

sudeepj wrote:https://twitter.com/gauravcsawant/statu ... 1906962432
"BSF: We've killed 7 Pak rangers & 1 terrorist in counterfire at international border Hiranagar sector, J&K."

BSF joins the battle.

Manu pubby thinks BSF is "chest thumping"

Increasingly feel "presstitutes" is the right name for these good for nthng paki sympathisizers

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 21 Oct 2016 21:17

Well done BSF.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 21 Oct 2016 21:21

I'm sorry I've missed this as I was travelling. What is this Ranger sniping ? have we had any casualties ?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 21 Oct 2016 21:23

Akshay Kapoor wrote:I'm sorry I've missed this as I was travelling. What is this Ranger sniping ? have we had any casualties ?

One of our BSF jawan is injured and his situation is critical. But not sure if he took a sniper shot.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 21 Oct 2016 21:37

Just read The press. Aggressive action by BSF. Great show.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 21 Oct 2016 21:40

This is what a lot of people are saying for a long time including me. Just untie our hands and see what happens then. From a time when a BSF nawab was brought trussed up from a bamboo stick in Bangladesh to this. All that was needed was political will to do the basic job. The impact on morale in BSF will be huge.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Oct 2016 21:57

It was reported a short time ago that the army has asked for 6 months to clan up the Augean stables of infiltration and terror in J&K. I hope it has started.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 21 Oct 2016 21:59

PA/Rangers were always bunch of p*ssies. That entire region of Pakistan was trampled upon, raped, slaved, converted from the turkic invaders, so they got hardly any warrior /martial race. All they have done is to own up their masters legacy (who invaded them), combine with Islam, and create the narrative on us (we ruled you for 1000 yrs), "the unconverted" lot who resisted throughout the history.

All these years since 1947, Indian forces had their hands tied down because of with eunuch leadership who coined this b*llshyt word 'strategic restaint'. Now that we have a 'normal' and 'reasonable' leadership, ( won't even call it an aggressive one, cuz PoK would have been owned by now) who has given liberty to armed forces, we are seeing good dividends.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 21 Oct 2016 22:00

Karthik S wrote:
Akshay Kapoor wrote:I'm sorry I've missed this as I was travelling. What is this Ranger sniping ? have we had any casualties ?
One of our BSF jawan is injured and his situation is critical. But not sure if he took a sniper shot.

Another soldier was killed yesterday in a sniping attack.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Oct 2016 22:01

gauravwarrior wrote:
sudeepj wrote:https://twitter.com/gauravcsawant/statu ... 1906962432
"BSF: We've killed 7 Pak rangers & 1 terrorist in counterfire at international border Hiranagar sector, J&K."

BSF joins the battle.
Manu pubby thinks BSF is "chest thumping"

Increasingly feel "presstitutes" is the right name for these good for nthng paki sympathisizers

Shiv Aroor was saying something similar. But I think both are missing an important point or two
1. If the BSF keeps losing men and the public howls that they are doing nothing - it won't be good for morale. Chest thumping is necessary
2. Secondly, Pakistan will try and suppress and hide their losses unless they can glean some advantage. News like this serves as a provocation when Pakistan is on the back foot. They must be provoked into reacting and doing something rash

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 21 Oct 2016 22:24

yes, basically disproportionate retaliation. You snipe, we take out a dozen. You mortar, we take out a post. You push jihadis, we come in and take out a whole bunch of people.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Oct 2016 22:26

Gagan wrote:Is it possible to have a remotely operated machine gun, like say the T-90 or the Arjun MK-2s remotely operated anti air gunassembly, mounted on a telescopic crane, and a few of these deployed around a building, like say in pampore?
These could look into windows from a height, one by one, assist regular troops and take out the jihadis.
Make it well protected, because these will take a lot of small arms fire
One modification could be it being able to deploy smoke/chilli/incendiary grenades so that there is area denial.

https://sputniknews.com/russia/20161021 ... cal-robot/

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 21 Oct 2016 22:42

Rahul M wrote:god, he is like lightning !

Faster than a lightning. Wow

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 21 Oct 2016 22:45

Picklu wrote:The guy has immense hand & upper body strength. He has thrown the partner from stationary position so not so much of momentum play. While the partner were not lifted up high, he was definitely lifted off the ground in the process of throwing.The way he puts pressure in the wrists, fingers etc corroborates the same.

The pressure at the right points will force the opponent to bend and be flexible, he has to channel the direction and the body flies/moves in that direction. The pain that arises in the body throws the person off balance.

salaam · Post by **salaam** » 22 Oct 2016 00:37

TKiran wrote:I was reading "panchatantra" and according to Vishnu sharma, we should do land grabbing now. Otherwise, these cross LoC strikes are useless.

भूमिमित्रं हिरण्यं च विग्रहस्य फलत्रयं
नास्त्येकमपि यद्येषां न तत् कुर्यात्कथन्चन [249]

Land, friend and gold these three are the gains of the war.
If even one of them is not gained,
then one should not venture after anything.

But we are not at war, simply protecting our way of life.

Above applies when we actually go to war.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 22 Oct 2016 12:55

Gagan wrote:Is it possible to have a remotely operated machine gun, like say the T-90 or the Arjun MK-2s remotely operated anti air gunassembly, mounted on a telescopic crane, and a few of these deployed around a building, like say in pampore?
These could look into windows from a height, one by one, assist regular troops and take out the jihadis.
Make it well protected, because these will take a lot of small arms fire
One modification could be it being able to deploy smoke/chilli/incendiary grenades so that there is area denial.

Eminently possible. Already in operation in SoKo.

We could have a home grown spin-off and use them to bolster the first round of defence. Problem is our friends are going to purposefully push civilians, kids in the area, get the hallaled and raise ruckus on the international Hooman Rights forums. Much like the manufactured outrage over pellet guns

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 22 Oct 2016 14:26

^ "Gagan wrote:
Is it possible to have a remotely operated machine gun,"

They have been used by Israel for a long time. Heard a first hand account of their deployment almost 10-12 years ago. IMHO, in Kashmir theatre, issue is how to keep them deployed in winter where snow fall would occlude utility unless one was to install them on tall pedestals with a height in excess of tallest expected snow drifts.

satya · Post by **satya** » 22 Oct 2016 14:28

For once i enjoyed the Cold Start validation .

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 22 Oct 2016 15:11

Yes Lisa
I read the news reports out of Israel from almost a decade ago.
They had deployed a few of these around a building, and the terrorists were trapped in a very tiny shadow arc. But the moment the terrorists came into view, they were taken out.
The israelis have these deployed on their borders.
This thing can be very valuable, if it can reach like 4-5 floors height. That'll cover 90% buildings in India
A few of these deployed will mean any holding up in a building will be very short lived.
With telescopic sights, these don't have to be exactly very close either

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 22 Oct 2016 15:54

salaam wrote:
But we are not at war, simply protecting our way of life.

Above applies when we actually go to war.

Saar jii, what exactly do you want to happen before declaring that we are at war ?
Almost daily deaths of soldiers and Civilians for decades not enough ?

salaam · Post by **salaam** » 22 Oct 2016 17:17

jamwal wrote:
salaam wrote:
But we are not at war, simply protecting our way of life.

Above applies when we actually go to war.

Saar jii, what exactly do you want to happen before declaring that we are at war ?
Almost daily deaths of soldiers and Civilians for decades not enough ?

Nothing more is required, all the provocations have already been committed, but we can't go to war without a political decision. All the border action, surgical strikes, etc are deliberately under the threshold of a full scale war. Or we can say that PA is not taking the bait.

We can raise the ante if they are not escalating till we are diplomatically, politically and millitarily ready for a war. Unfortunately that calculation can only be done by people who have actual inputs.

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 22 Oct 2016 18:07

Sun Tzu says land grabbing without war, just the threat of war, Panchatantra says the same thing and also when there is a war (even the pretence of war) we should do land grabbing. See how Chinese han grabbed Tibet?

The cross LoC strikes have erased the earlier doctrine of "strategic restraint" which was partially thrust on us and mostly because of our naievety. Now the window is open, we should be pushing the LoC km by km, wherever possible. Pakis can't do anything about it. Cheen should stop dreaming about CPEC, they got Gwadar as a naval base that's it, no further, PoK is ours, we should start building India Afghanistan Economic Corridor.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 22 Oct 2016 18:43

@Gagan, Mukesh.Kumar ji

Such systems are surely needed. They would be very good for base defense from external assaults.

Multiple units would be needed to cover an area.

If i understand Gagan ji, he was referring to terrorists holed up inside the buildings.

For such a situation what could be explored is a mobile system - the remote weapon system in a jeep/IFV/truck put atop a simple hydraulic (with manual backup) periscope type mount which can go up and down.

Basically a much more simpler (and cheaper) version of this mounted on a mobile platform (Jeep, IFV, Truck)

Something like the below vehicle with a weapon mounted along with the camera

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 24 Oct 2016 13:02

Field report by BBC in PoK

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-37702790

....

....But they did cross the Line of Control (LoC), in some cases by more than a kilometre, to hit nearby Pakistani border posts.

Police officials on the Pakistani side privately concede that such a ground assault did occur in the Madarpur-Titrinot region of Poonch sector, west of Srinagar, where a Pakistani post was destroyed and one soldier killed.

....

Read it in full. It is based on a lot on hearsay it seems. The accounts if taken at face value indicate multiple strikes other than officially acknowledged.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 24 Oct 2016 18:47

Yes exactly.
Except that a telescopic crane as the mount would be more maneuverable.
The idea is to look into each window one by one.
So a swiveling base, with an inclined telescopic arm on a mobile platform would be ideal.
Something like this, but adequately armored and protected.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 24 Oct 2016 19:00

And use bright visible or Infrared light, crowd control techniques - sonic cannon, chilli grenades etc along with a 12.5mm love package
All non violent, and ending of all violence onlee.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 24 Oct 2016 19:02

Use the crane to insert commandos in via windows too.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 24 Oct 2016 19:03

Gagan wrote:Yes exactly.
Except that a telescopic crane as the mount would be more maneuverable.
The idea is to look into each window one by one.
So a swiveling base, with an inclined telescopic arm on a mobile platform would be ideal.
Something like this, but adequately armored and protected.

Probably not suitable for sniping unless some complex stabilization mechanism is used. Can be used for firing grenades and other nice stuff at the terrorists though.

For border applications, a stable tripod or traditional platform will probably be best.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 24 Oct 2016 19:38

Gagan Sir

You are a kindred soul

I was actually going to put the image of a fire engine... but then googled around for some 15-20 minutes to get a 'military' vehicle.. lest i be laughed out

Though come to think of it, indian jugaad can give our boys such an interim system till the real deal comes along.

A competition between DRDO and IIT would be nice

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 24 Oct 2016 20:06

What i had in mind was a heavily armored (small arms bullet proof) bucket attachment with the optics (regular, thermal, IR) and weapon system (Machine gun, Grenade Launcher) at the end of the fire engine ladder

Imagine the Remote Weapon system at the end of a fire engine ladder (replacing the water canon) like this one (apologies for the large image)

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 24 Oct 2016 20:12

Found something which was actually built on experimental basis during WW2 - to see if it could be used in the beach landings at normandie - a pair of lewis machine guns attached to the end of a fire engine ladder

Special DUKWs

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 24 Oct 2016 20:16

Gagan wrote:Use the crane to insert commandos in via windows too.

Like these TFTA frenchies

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 24 Oct 2016 20:30

They sniped at the hijacker from afar through the cockpit window.

But how about inserting people onto the 3rd or 4th floor onlee? I am sure if I could think of it, a lot of people who do this for a living have thought about it onlee.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 24 Oct 2016 20:34

Would be an interesting scenario though: terrorist is 400% trapped between a sniper gun platform from behind just outside his window and the commandos just outside his door.

See how scared Tom cruise was in the movie - The war of the worlds, when the aliens inserted their tube like camera through a door, into the building where he was hiding with the kid hain ji?

added later...