We need good quality videos taken by people with steady hands and not some blurry edited stuff that will definitely make me pass comments about the quality of "China make" camerasLiu wrote:J20 is confirmed to be shown in Zhuhai.
China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
We also need the camera person to be taller than the weeds around him or her and to not be smoking any of those weeds either because of the haziness it would cause.shiv wrote:We need good quality videos taken by people with steady hands and not some blurry edited stuff that will definitely make me pass comments about the quality of "China make" camerasLiu wrote:J20 is confirmed to be shown in Zhuhai.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Hopefully the clearer pictures will show the pilot shown standing in front of the J20 has a shadow that behaves like every other shadow around him
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
https://twitter.com/xinfengcao/status/7 ... 2938798080
Missiles and launch vehicles developed by CASIC including various types of anti-ship missiles, air-to-ground missiles, air-defense missiles.
Missiles and launch vehicles developed by CASIC including various types of anti-ship missiles, air-to-ground missiles, air-defense missiles.
-
- BRFite
- Posts: 459
- Joined: 29 Mar 2008 19:27
- Location: prêt à monter dans le Arihant
- Contact:
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
As I read page 2 & 3 of this thread I realized that we often convert this into a baiting and bashing thread. My suggesting is that we should limit ourselves to monitoring and commenting on what is reported in the Open Source world.
I see Lui trying to defend the position of China while many other Oldies getting into a attack mode. I wonder if its required and warrants the time and effort. You all are intelligent to pick up things which matter and filter out things that don't. Not many people like to discuss failures. Open discussion of failures on a public platform requires one to be a democracy. China is not a democracy and that is because they have taken a decision not to be one. So lets filter and report facts that matter and ones which are on the border of believable and un-believable and then have a critical discussion on the same.
I see Lui trying to defend the position of China while many other Oldies getting into a attack mode. I wonder if its required and warrants the time and effort. You all are intelligent to pick up things which matter and filter out things that don't. Not many people like to discuss failures. Open discussion of failures on a public platform requires one to be a democracy. China is not a democracy and that is because they have taken a decision not to be one. So lets filter and report facts that matter and ones which are on the border of believable and un-believable and then have a critical discussion on the same.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Looks like Chinese equivalent of Brahmos Supersonic Missile
First Picture of China's New YJ-12A Anti-Ship Missile During Launch Revealed
First Picture of China's New YJ-12A Anti-Ship Missile During Launch Revealed
Ahead of Airshow China 2016 due to start this week in Zuhai, the first ever picture showing a YJ-12A new generation surface launched anti-ship missile has been released. The YJ-12A is the latest supersonic anti-ship missile of the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN). It was unveiled for the first time last year during the victory day parade.
The YJ-12 (YingJi meaning Eagle Strike) was designed by the Third Academy of the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation "CASIC" (HiWING Mechanical & Electrical Technology Corporation). It is fitted with liquid-fueled ramjet (with a combined booster and combustion chamber).
Its reported speed is around Mach 2 if launched from a low altitude and up to Mach 3.2 if launched from high altitude. According to Chinese sources, the YJ-12 maximum range is around 380 kilometers (the distance varies depending on launch altitude) and its terminal attack altitude is 15 meters. Finally the missile would be about 6,3 meters long with a diameter below 0,756 meters.
As we reported earlier, the PLAN is currently reffiting its Project 956E Sovremennyy destroyers with the YJ-12A. The future Type 055 Destroyer may be fitted with this anti-ship missile as well.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Anyone going to Zhuhai? What's the entry fees and structure like?
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Reminds me of F16 with DSI tech Demo plan.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
If you re-examine your own statement, you are saying that non democracies will not discuss failures openly. That means they will discuss successes only. Are you suggesting that we propagate possible lies/misinformation and accept the hiding of failures without expressing doubts and accept everything else as a success because we are intelligent/old/experienced and China is not a democracy?pushkar.bhat wrote:Open discussion of failures on a public platform requires one to be a democracy.
Unless I have misunderstood your reasoning I am unconvinced.
-
- BRFite
- Posts: 459
- Joined: 29 Mar 2008 19:27
- Location: prêt à monter dans le Arihant
- Contact:
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Siva, yes you got the first part right. The open discussion of failure is often seen as dissent against the establishment in non-democratic systems. There are costs of dissident or non-conformist behavior. Without derailing the thread I want to give the example of Stalinist USSR. It required a Khrushchev to denounce Stalin. Having said that I didn't say that they discuss success only but that candid discussion may come at a cost.shiv wrote:If you re-examine your own statement, you are saying that non democracies will not discuss failures openly. That means they will discuss successes only. Are you suggesting that we propagate possible lies/misinformation and accept the hiding of failures without expressing doubts and accept everything else as a success because we are intelligent/old/experienced and China is not a democracy?pushkar.bhat wrote:Open discussion of failures on a public platform requires one to be a democracy.
Unless I have misunderstood your reasoning I am unconvinced.
By the way I am ok with you agreeing to disagree. We happen to live in a democracy.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
What are all those drones powered by? My bet is they are powered by smaller russian engines.
Drones are not very sophisticated technology (you can buy made-in-china drones at Walmart's toys aisle.)
But anything that's useful runs up against the same issue on manned aircraft, an engine with enough TWR to carry an useful load.
Drones are not very sophisticated technology (you can buy made-in-china drones at Walmart's toys aisle.)
But anything that's useful runs up against the same issue on manned aircraft, an engine with enough TWR to carry an useful load.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
well, there are many kinds of engines (turban-fan,turbanjet,scamjet,propeller..etc..)chola wrote:What are all those drones powered by? My bet is they are powered by smaller russian engines.
Drones are not very sophisticated technology (you can buy made-in-china drones at Walmart's toys aisle.)
But anything that's useful runs up against the same issue on manned aircraft, an engine with enough TWR to carry an useful load.
long long ago(manybe after soviet helped China set up its militray industry-complex in 1950s), CHina could manufacture most kinds of engines(turbanjet,propeller,scamjet..etc),except turbanfans.
however, CHina failed to develop turbanfans until ws10a.and Turbanfan is the most popular engines for aircrafts nowdays.
those drones might be powered by turbanjet or propellers,because long voyage is more important to drone than highspeed cruzing( propeller is more fuel-saving than turbanfan)
BTW, all hypersonic crafts are powerd by scamjets.....CHina's rapid developement of hypersonic crafts proves that China-made scamjet engine might be as advancing as yankees.
Last edited by Liu on 01 Nov 2016 07:42, edited 1 time in total.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
The core tech of drones is not frame/engine/weapon,but long~distance communication/control tech.(otherwise drones would be out of control or hijacked easily)
And long distance communication/control tech is usualy based on space assets and adcanced communication tech.
Either USA or China has active and massive space assets and pioneering communication tech( What huawei is best at is not smartphone,but communication infrastructures)
And long distance communication/control tech is usualy based on space assets and adcanced communication tech.
Either USA or China has active and massive space assets and pioneering communication tech( What huawei is best at is not smartphone,but communication infrastructures)
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
J-20 video
Useless videography/Chinese camera operated by a dunce?
https://twitter.com/xinfengcao/status/7 ... 9035296769
Useless videography/Chinese camera operated by a dunce?
https://twitter.com/xinfengcao/status/7 ... 9035296769
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
It's actually looks like a close copy of Taiwan's Hsiang Feng III HF3, minus the booster placement.Austin wrote:Looks like Chinese equivalent of Brahmos Supersonic Missile
First Picture of China's New YJ-12A Anti-Ship Missile During Launch Revealed
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
<POOF>
Admin note: dont repost the same large photos of the original post. And no more trolling
Admin note: dont repost the same large photos of the original post. And no more trolling
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
-- self deleted---
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Dont know if this thread was following the construction of Typ001A?
From wiki, the timeline from keel laying to floatout seem to be around 18 months:
A few days after the official confirmation, December 2015, The china-defense.blogspot posted initial hull blocks, with blurring of the cabling/duct of outer walls. Probably officially sanctioned photo
Completed hull without the superstructure/island
Forward part of the large size, Soviet-era superstructure gets integrated
Aft part of super structure gets integrated
Closeup of the Varyag style superstructure
Distant shot with the aft radar array integrated
From wiki, the timeline from keel laying to floatout seem to be around 18 months:
The Type001A carrier's blocks seem to have been assembled at the pace of a commercial vessel. If this was done with attention to modular blocks with plumbing, cabling et al, then it is of note to a lot of nations.On 27 July 2015, a report of the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation stated that the corporation is "go well with key projects represented by aircraft carrier and nuclear submarine", which is the first time that the builder mentioned the construction of the Type 001A class.[3]
On 31 December 2015, a spokesman of the Chinese Ministry of Defense confirmed that China is designing and building its second aircraft carrier.[2]
On 26 September 2016, pictures of the Type-001A carrier under construction was leaked on the web. The pictures showes the carrier being in its finale stage of assembling.[4]
A few days after the official confirmation, December 2015, The china-defense.blogspot posted initial hull blocks, with blurring of the cabling/duct of outer walls. Probably officially sanctioned photo
Completed hull without the superstructure/island
Forward part of the large size, Soviet-era superstructure gets integrated
Aft part of super structure gets integrated
Closeup of the Varyag style superstructure
Distant shot with the aft radar array integrated
Last edited by hnair on 01 Nov 2016 13:22, edited 1 time in total.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
X-posted in Single-engine fighter td.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... tary-might
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... tary-might
China unveils J-20 stealth jet fighter in show of military might
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Video:
So far the best footage of J-20s' debuting flight
https://twitter.com/xinfengcao/status/7 ... 2051102720
So far the best footage of J-20s' debuting flight
https://twitter.com/xinfengcao/status/7 ... 2051102720
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
I began following this after it popped up out of nowhere around six months ago on Popular Science.hnair wrote:Dont know if this thread was following the construction of Typ001A?
From wiki, the timeline from keel laying to floatout seem to be around 18 months:
It's a complete knockoff of the Kuz, Varyag down to the smallest detail so that undoubtedly helped with the fast build. The chini ability to construct things with speed is impressive nonetheless.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
its internal structure is revised,thus It can hold much more fighters than varyag.chola wrote:I began following this after it popped up out of nowhere around six months ago on Popular Science.hnair wrote:Dont know if this thread was following the construction of Typ001A?
From wiki, the timeline from keel laying to floatout seem to be around 18 months:
It's a complete knockoff of the Kuz, Varyag down to the smallest detail so that undoubtedly helped with the fast build. The chini ability to construct things with speed is impressive nonetheless.
Varyag can hold Only 30 crafts while oo1a might hold 50 orSo ones.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
TOI says pakis already in talks with chinese for export version of J-20 . pretty fast. Even a sqdrn will be great boost for pakis as they do not have to pay and will get hands on Gen 5 tech
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
how will they pay for itparshuram wrote:TOI says pakis already in talks with chinese for export version of J-20 . pretty fast. Even a sqdrn will be great boost for pakis as they do not have to pay and will get hands on Gen 5 tech
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
More than paying for it, how will the Pakis manage the operational expenses for these jets?? These are twin-engined jets, and unless the Chinese are able to refine the W-15 enough to not be as fuel guzzling as the RD-33 based W-10, it is gonna be a major problem for them. Let's not forget that they're having issues flying even their single-engined jets for normal training schedules.
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 2394
- Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Do they have to pay? Why would China not just give it to them to mess with us?kit wrote:how will they pay for itparshuram wrote:TOI says pakis already in talks with chinese for export version of J-20 . pretty fast. Even a sqdrn will be great boost for pakis as they do not have to pay and will get hands on Gen 5 tech
The Pakis are very resilient. They will find a way to make this work if China agrees to its side of the bargain. It may take a few years, but they will manage.RohitAM wrote:More than paying for it, how will the Pakis manage the operational expenses for these jets?? These are twin-engined jets, and unless the Chinese are able to refine the W-15 enough to not be as fuel guzzling as the RD-33 based W-10, it is gonna be a major problem for them. Let's not forget that they're having issues flying even their single-engined jets for normal training schedules.
The real question is what will we do about it? Is our entire strategy to wait and hope that Pakis fail in their efforts? Or do we have a more robust fix?
The J-20 has its flaws, but once you have an airplane on hand and in numbers, the fixes for its flaws will come in the form of Mk-1, Mk-2 etc. The J-10 is a good example of in the incremental changes that are enhancing its capabilities every time we see a new picture of them. The Chinese are leapfrogging ahead while we fumble and stumble even to bring the LCA to a single squadron (and/or prevent its scrapping altogether).
-Vivek
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
RohitAM wrote:More than paying for it, how will the Pakis manage the operational expenses for these jets?? These are twin-engined jets, and unless the Chinese are able to refine the W-15 enough to not be as fuel guzzling as the RD-33 based W-10, it is gonna be a major problem for them. Let's not forget that they're having issues flying even their single-engined jets for normal training schedules.
The J-20 is still dependent on Russian AL-31 engines, not that it will make any difference with the bakis since the russkie mercenaries already supply the RD-93 to the JF-17 Blunder. The smokey RD-93 is derived from the RF-33 but not the WS-10.
The WS-10 is a AL -31 class engine cloned from the CMF56 which itself is the civilian core derived from F4O4.
Not that engines will really matter here. The bakis will not be able To Pay for the J-20 just like they weren't able to Pay for the J-10. What 5th gen they will get will be the J-31 which like the JF-17 is an inferior craft that the chini airforce doesn't want.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
The Pakis don't have to pay for the aircrafts themselves - they'll just get a couple of squadrons worth for free, regardless of it being the J-20 or the J-31. The problem for the Chinese is that they don't have funding to spare to fund the operations of these aircrafts once they are in the PAF. The Pakis can get training in China itself for the initial training and familiarization on the type, but a couple of weeks of initial training does not in any way equate to continuous training based on DACTE tactics and operational evolution. Having a superior aircraft is one thing, being able to put it up in the air with competently trained pilots against a fully networked numerically superior opponent with the ability to monitor your entire airspace while loitering on his side of the border during wartime is quite another.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Sedate display.Austin wrote:Video:
So far the best footage of J-20s' debuting flight
https://twitter.com/xinfengcao/status/7 ... 2051102720
12 seconds to roll off the top at the end. Maybe 3-4 G
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Yea, a pretty tame performance. Here's the same video in 4K:shiv wrote:Sedate display.Austin wrote:Video:
So far the best footage of J-20s' debuting flight
https://twitter.com/xinfengcao/status/7 ... 2051102720
12 seconds to roll off the top at the end. Maybe 3-4 G
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Vivek ji, if things really move fast in paki and chinese marriage of J -20 . What options does IAF really have practically speaking. F-22 's if Unkil indeed gets ready to sell us or JSF? T -50 Is distant far i beleive ....
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Right, the J-20 will be expensive, and it's the top of the line fighter for the PLA, it won't be sold to Pakistan even if they can afford it, which they can't, and China can't afford to give them out for free.chola wrote:RohitAM wrote:More than paying for it, how will the Pakis manage the operational expenses for these jets?? These are twin-engined jets, and unless the Chinese are able to refine the W-15 enough to not be as fuel guzzling as the RD-33 based W-10, it is gonna be a major problem for them. Let's not forget that they're having issues flying even their single-engined jets for normal training schedules.
The J-20 is still dependent on Russian AL-31 engines, not that it will make any difference with the bakis since the russkie mercenaries already supply the RD-93 to the JF-17 Blunder. The smokey RD-93 is derived from the RF-33 but not the WS-10.
The WS-10 is a AL -31 class engine cloned from the CMF56 which itself is the civilian core derived from F4O4.
Not that engines will really matter here. The bakis will not be able To Pay for the J-20 just like they weren't able to Pay for the J-10. What 5th gen they will get will be the J-31 which like the JF-17 is an inferior craft that the chini airforce doesn't want.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Right, the YJ-12 has been around for a while now, supposedly the picture in Austin's post is one of CM-302, the export variant of the YJ-12.Sid wrote:It's actually looks like a close copy of Taiwan's Hsiang Feng III HF3, minus the booster placement.Austin wrote:Looks like Chinese equivalent of Brahmos Supersonic Missile
First Picture of China's New YJ-12A Anti-Ship Missile During Launch Revealed
The Chinese Brahmos is the CX-1, even the specs are quite similar: 8850mm length, 3500kg weight, 280km range, speed Mach 2.2-3.0
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
Some random comments that may not mean much..
When a plane turns on its side i.e rolls 90 deg there is a loss of lift that causes the plane to lose altitude - in a movement that I have heard described as a side slip. In airshows I have observed pilots in tight turns prevent or reduce loss of altitude by either maintaining a slight "yaw" - so that tailfin lift, which will push the nose down gets compensated by yawing the nose.
For some reason the J-20 at 18 and 34 seconds does not do that - and in the 90 degree roll attitude the nose can be seen to drop and the plane loses altitude. I am not reaching any conclusions about this - the pilot may merely have wanted to stay close to the ground and crowd. But a tight turn in a combat situation will also cause a loss of altitude like this unless compensated by a yaw - and that requires extra power. Lack of power causing loss of altitude was exactly what the HF-24 was accused of in turns.
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
The more I look at J-20 and its manouvering , The more I am made to believe the purpose of J-20 is primary of Heavy Class Strike Fighter with secondary capability of an Interceptor likely in 45 T MTOW category like Mig-31.
Mostly certainly it lacks the finness , agility and manouverability of Air Superiority fighter may be they have not released the entire FBW control or it might be in intermediate state of testing and they might not want to try any thing stupid that may lead to a crash or chance of crash and bad publicity , Much like when PAK-FA was displayed for first time in public 2011 its demonstration was sedate.
J-21 looks more like an Air Superiority Fighter in Medium Class
Mostly certainly it lacks the finness , agility and manouverability of Air Superiority fighter may be they have not released the entire FBW control or it might be in intermediate state of testing and they might not want to try any thing stupid that may lead to a crash or chance of crash and bad publicity , Much like when PAK-FA was displayed for first time in public 2011 its demonstration was sedate.
J-21 looks more like an Air Superiority Fighter in Medium Class
Re: China Military Watch - Sept' 2016
China's new swarm drones