Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Nov 2016 14:22

right now the fastest train on the Del-HWH route is the duronto, that takes 16 hours to cover ~ 1400 km --> 87.5kmph.
avg speed has to be upped so that the traveling time comes down to 12 hours or less. that comes out to 116.66 kmph. if we cant achieve that then this incremental increase might not mean much in terms of ROI.

Rammpal · Post by **Rammpal** » 06 Nov 2016 14:34

https://www.liebherr.com/en/deu/product ... art-module

"..Low lifecycle cost

The air cycle system is by far the air conditioning system that allows to reach the lowest life cycle cost (between 20 and 40 per cent lower than traditional technologies) when considering the rail vehicle’s total operation lifetime (more than 30 years)..."

Any sign on IR looking/working along this line ?

Sicanta · Post by **Sicanta** » 20 Nov 2016 17:47

Major train accident in Kanpur Dehaat District, UP. Indore - Patna Exp. 14 coaches derailed. 115 Dead and more than 200 injured till now, nearly half of the grievously.

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 20 Nov 2016 18:24

Army (Brig. Sharma) in charge of rescue. UP police, NDRF, Army all involved along with locals. Root cause should be investigated and announced to the public soon along with remedial steps. It's seems only two probable causes. Tracks were damaged (due to wear and tear or due to intentional act) or some object was placed on tracks.

According to Brig. Sharma three army officers are still missing, they were in one of the most damaged cars.

Sicanta · Post by **Sicanta** » 20 Nov 2016 18:26

3 army officers were also traveling in the train. I hope they are all right.

And as for remedial measures, all trains should be given lhb coaches on war footing.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 20 Nov 2016 18:47

Horrible accident, and makes me very angry, that these incidents keep going on every few years. My question is, in these accidents, who constitutes the majority of the victims? Are these common, every day folk, middle class, upper middle class, poor labourers...which?

Sicanta · Post by **Sicanta** » 20 Nov 2016 19:42

Rail minister visits accident site

https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/800338524331352064

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 20 Nov 2016 20:21

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Horrible accident, and makes me very angry, that these incidents keep going on every few years. My question is, in these accidents, who constitutes the majority of the victims? Are these common, every day folk, middle class, upper middle class, poor labourers...which?

Has anyone ever demanded the root causes of past accidents? Is there an independent and technically qualified body such as the NTSB of USA?

I think PrabhuJi does not have his priorities in order.

One. Customer safety
Two. Customer ticketing convenience
Three. Customer platform convenience
Four. Customer ride comfort

So far too much attention given to website, cleaning service SMS, McDonald's food on-board.

I still see the iconic very old man walking along the tracks hammering the rivets. This must change. Inspection procedures need to be standardized and more of inspection / maintenance equipment need to be deployed.

As long as we don't improve safety and comfort levels for the poorest riders in cattle class coaches, we don't, as a nation, deserve Japanese bullet trains, we continue to create contrasting universes. Super rich, super poor. Super smart, super dumb, super luxury, super filth (eg Palace on Wheels vs Garib Rath)

Sicanta · Post by **Sicanta** » 20 Nov 2016 20:54

3 general, 5 ac and 6 sleeper coaches derailed.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 20 Nov 2016 21:17

Can we please tone down the rona-dhona for the moment? That can start once the full rescue is complete and we know how many actually died tragically. I am hoping it doesn't increase further. This is a very serious accident and it behooves us to give the rescue personnel some time to complete their duties before starting the opparis as the MSM does. Last I checked, BRF != MSM.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 20 Nov 2016 21:22

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Horrible accident, and makes me very angry, that these incidents keep going on every few years. My question is, in these accidents, who constitutes the majority of the victims? Are these common, every day folk, middle class, upper middle class, poor labourers...which?

What kind of a silly question is this? Does it even matter when so many people have died?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Nov 2016 21:54

Rishi ji, very very incorrect appraisal of RailMin's priorities. the issues you listed are merely the most visible ones highlighted by our moronic media.

we dont need this OR that, we need EVERYTHING and we need it by yesterday.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 20 Nov 2016 21:58

Exactly. These things do not derail selectively if it is an accident (referring to above question about who died and not). However, as elections are coming in UP and demonetization in effect the GoI should also be looking into this from the internal security perspective too.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 20 Nov 2016 21:58

Rishi verma..totally agree. This fetish about Bullet trains is also totally misplaced. with limited resources, investment has to go in other areas..safety, punctuality, comfort. Rahul M..the activities have to be prioritised ...

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 20 Nov 2016 22:02

What is the feasibility of using wireless devices monitoring continuity of tracks, increasing public vigilance about intentional mischief, seat belt like strap ons etc.? What are the low hanging fruits safety wise?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Nov 2016 22:05

Guys, I must admit, other than hearing about it, I don't know any details about Positive Train Control (PTC). But is there sufficient underlying infrastructure available in Indian railway control system to incorporate PTC?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control

Positive Train Control (PTC) is an advanced system designed to automatically stop a train before certain accidents occur. In particular, PTC is designed to prevent: Train-to-train collisions. Derailments caused by excessive train speed. Train movements through misaligned track switches.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 20 Nov 2016 22:45

IR has been working on several safety technologies for quite some time now. Unfortunately, only few of them happen to see practical implementation at the end of the day. Here is an infographic on safety systems currently pursued by IR.

I've been hearing about Advanced Train Collision Warning/Prevention systems for quite a few years now. Even Konkan Railway tried its a tech on their lines. Yet to see a system which was accepted and widely deployed by IR.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 20 Nov 2016 22:54

The problem is excessive overuse of existing infra, and it will give way at some point. And the mainline between Delhi and Howrah via Kanpur and Allahabad is one of the most overburdened sections on IR. There is a pressing need for more infra by way of the DFC and alternative routes to relieve pressure on the mainline. Both are in progress (eastern DFC) and the double electric track on the Patna Saharanpur Lucknow Moradabad route, which runs roughly parallel to this mainline. Only by doing a lot of this and resisting pressure to introduce train after train, can things become more manageable. Suresh Prabhu has done an admirable job so far, and has focused on the right things. With respect, the posters talking about his priorities don't know what they are talking about. What's the point of fixing safety when infrastructure is so overloaded that the same safety related maintenance cannot be carried out? Without infra, safety is not possible. Please to understand that first.

I am making the above statement on the assumption that it was an accident, and not sabotage, etc. Or we have a bigger problem in our hands. But we need to give time for the investigation without mindless speculation.

Too much Rona dhona will happen in the media now, with Prabhu as the target. I hope he is mot asked to go with some populist lalu type replacement who will keep adding to the system load by way of new trains to his village.

CRamS saar, PTS wouldn't have helped here, going by the visuals. We'll have to wait and see what the investigation reveals. We do have automatic block signaling on busy sections, track circuiting and TCAS in major suburban sections (Mumbai and Chennai, iirc). And KR, as Zynda saar says above developed the ACD (anti collision devices). This works only on single line sections, and is operational on KR and the NFR route to Guwahati. Maybe more of late, but I am not sure. Net net, some systems available and deployed, though nowhere at the scale needed.

And for those asking for NTSB, we do happen to have an agency for that - the commissioner for railway safety, who will conduct the inquiry and publish the findings. This office is paid for by the civil aviation ministry, and not railways.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 20 Nov 2016 23:02

Some other safety that are being/have been rolled out include newer LHB coaches, radio sets for better local loop communication, centrally buffered couplers instead of the traditional screw couplers, etc. The CBC couplers aren't as smooth as the traditional ones (they are more jerky) but will prevent telescoping and coaches jumping over each other in the event of a derailment. They generally minimize casualties in accidents. Each ICF coach as it goes through its overhaul is getting retrofitted with CBC coupler, but with 40K+ coaches, will take time. The newer LHB coaches already are CBC fitted. It remains to be seen whether this train had CBC or screw couplers. Going by the visuals, I would think the latter.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Nov 2016 23:03

manjgu wrote:Rishi verma..totally agree. This fetish about Bullet trains is also totally misplaced. with limited resources, investment has to go in other areas..safety, punctuality, comfort. Rahul M..the activities have to be prioritised ...

I am really sick and tired of this uninformed bullet train nonsense. that project is being funded by japan, we dont have to start paying it back for more than a decade and that too at ridiculously low interest rates.

it does not take away any resources from IR. the activities ARE being prioritised. the problem is everyone has different ideas what those priorities are.
today you would name safety, yesterday would have named speed and comfort because IR hasn't had a major accident in sometime.

moreover, any new initiative would take a looong time to show up in the real world, given the sheer size and volume of IR.

please, do read to get an idea what it's all about.
http://swarajyamag.com/columns/railways ... petition-i

Sicanta · Post by **Sicanta** » 20 Nov 2016 23:06

arshyam wrote:The problem is excessive overuse of existing infra, and it will give way at some point. And the mainline between Delhi and Howrah via Kanpur and Allahabad is one of the most overburdened sections on IR. There is a pressing need for more infra by way of the DFC and alternative routes to relieve pressure on the mainline. Both are in progress (eastern DFC) and the double electric track on the Patna Saharanpur Lucknow Moradabad route, which runs roughly parallel to this mainline. Only by doing a lot of this and resisting pressure to introduce train after train, can things become more manageable. Suresh Prabhu has done an admirable job so far, and has focused on the right things. With respect, the posters talking about his priorities don't know what they are talking about. What's the point of fixing safety when infrastructure is so overloaded that the same safety related maintenance cannot be carried out? Without infra, safety is not possible. Please to understand that first.

I am making the above statement on the assumption that it was an accident, and not sabotage, etc. Or we have a bigger problem in our hands. But we need to give time for the investigation without mindless speculation.

Too much Rona dhona will happen in the media now, with Prabhu as the target. I hope he is mot asked to go with some populist lalu type replacement who will keep adding to the system load by way of new trains to his village.

CRamS saar, PTS wouldn't have helped here, going by the visuals. We'll have to wait and see what the investigation reveals. We do have automatic block signaling on busy sections, track circuiting and TCAS in major suburban sections (Mumbai and Chennai, iirc). And KR, as Zynda saar says above developed the ACD (anti collision devices). This works only on single line sections, and is operational on KR and the NFR route to Guwahati. Maybe more of late, but I am not sure. Net net, some systems available and deployed, though nowhere at the scale needed.

And for those asking for NTSB, we do happen to have an agency for that - the commissioner for railway safety, who will conduct the inquiry and publish the findings. This office is paid for by the civil aviation ministry, and not railways.

I have travelled quite a bit on moradabad route and it is in very bad condition. Max speed allowed is 100 km/kr and even at that speed, coaches shake a lot. Just last year Faizabad - delhi exp and janta exp derailed on this route. Not keeping track of all freight derailments.

Ever since the route was electrified, new trains have been started on this route but well it's NR - most mismanaged zone

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Nov 2016 23:07

btw, coming to ACS the issue was that it was GPS based and was limited by the resolution of the civilian signal.

I am not sure what the resolution of the mil-grade IRNSS signal is. if it is better than a 1.5 m the ACS might be redesigned to access it.

disha · Post by **disha** » 21 Nov 2016 02:48

Varoon Shekhar wrote: Are these common, every day folk, middle class, upper middle class, poor labourers...which?

None of the above., they are Indians.

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 21 Nov 2016 05:54

Rahul M wrote:
manjgu wrote:Rishi verma..totally agree. This fetish about Bullet trains is also totally misplaced. with limited resources, investment has to go in other areas..safety, punctuality, comfort. Rahul M..the activities have to be prioritised ...
I am really sick and tired of this uninformed bullet train nonsense. that project is being funded by japan, we dont have to start paying it back for more than a decade and that too at ridiculously low interest rates.

Sir before you get more sick and tired about people speaking of bullet train please read what I had written. Even if Japan is "funding it" I question do we deserve it? Do we prioritize safety aspect in our daily living? Everywhere there are disasters waiting to happen. From mosquito breeding, road conditions, driving habits, rail over-crowding, track conditions, air pollution, water pollution, food safety... Japan is the at the other extreme in all of these.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 21 Nov 2016 06:05

Rishi Verma wrote:
Rahul M wrote: I am really sick and tired of this uninformed bullet train nonsense. that project is being funded by japan, we dont have to start paying it back for more than a decade and that too at ridiculously low interest rates.
Sir before you get more sick and tired about people speaking of bullet train please read what I had written. Even if Japan is "funding it" I question do we deserve it? Do we prioritize safety aspect in our daily living? Everywhere there are disasters waiting to happen. From mosquito breeding, road conditions, driving habits, rail over-crowding, track conditions, air pollution, water pollution, food safety... Japan is the at the other extreme in all of these.

I don't quite see how bullet train is in anyway connected to all those especially when you are not paying for it from your own pocket.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 21 Nov 2016 06:06

^ For starter we can save 10's of thousands of lives by just fencing the tracks in the populated area and building overbridge and under passes for crossing. An estimated 15,000 people are killed just by being over run by the train.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 21 Nov 2016 06:11

^^ Again, that doesn't answer it. What that has got to do with bullet train project? I assume you know that the money invested in the project is not taken out of rail budget or some general purpose loan money that is being redirected to this project.
What you mentioned is important but we can do that in parallel. If you want to fix every single issue before going for high tech solutions, then we'll be two generations behind even south east Asia.

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 21 Nov 2016 06:13

@Rishi - Don't mix two things up. What you are saying is exactly which kept us back for 5 decades. Bullet train is not coming from our money - so you can't argue funds allocated to safety is going to bullet train. Safety is a top priority for every railway in the world, but accidents have happened in spain, Japan, UK and US. Does it mean they have abandoned plans of fast trains?

Analogous to your argument - one can say don't invest in supercomputer because people or dying of hunger or don't design space rockets because people don't have roof over their head. And if you believe this then start implementing this idea at home - don't buy a tv or any gadgets before you install a world class home security system. Safety first, remember.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 21 Nov 2016 07:45

Rishi Verma wrote:Even if Japan is "funding it" I question do we deserve it? Do we prioritize safety aspect in our daily living? Everywhere there are disasters waiting to happen. From mosquito breeding, road conditions, driving habits, rail over-crowding, track conditions, air pollution, water pollution, food safety... Japan is the at the other extreme in all of these.

Sure, let's stop all trains, buses, cars, autos, two-wheelers and bicycles. Only jutkas going forward, though we will be going forward very very slowly. Oh wait, the animal rights types will jump up and down citing cruelty. Then only walking is left - hopefully no jholla-walla will hold dharnas against me for using my own calf muscles to walk.

This being the railway thread, let me focus only on the rail related aspects of your posts, such little as it is. You mention rail over-crowding and track conditions. Both fair points, but do you know why they are the way they are? Please think it through and how it can be solved. I have already said above how they can be addressed.

If you are concerned about safety in rail ops, whether you prioritize it or not, IR does do that. The fact that around 10K+ passenger and another 5K odd goods trains run daily carrying 2+ crore people daily does indicate that they must be doing something right. If you don't believe me, please take a ride from Chennai-Delhi or Howrah to Mumbai. The sheer volume of trains one sees will buttress my point, and that's still only 2 routes. This accident happened despite it - which is why we must first try to figure what happened. Human error? Infra failure?

Earlier there were frequent incidents of head-on collisions, rear-ending, etc. Steps were taken even in the dark days of Lalu, didi, etc. to improve signalling, communications, etc. to the point that we don't see them anymore. Rear-ending incidents happened, a few due to human error. How many people here know that a single incidence of signal jumping (i.e. move past a red light) invites immediate suspension and demotion from passenger service? How many know that drivers turning on their mobile phones while on duty attract immediate action? That they are required to take a breathalyser test before each trip? that most new locos (WAP-4s, WDM-3Ds, WDPs, WAP-7s) have speed loggers that are analysed for overspeeding? And these are loco pilots who start passenger ops after 10-12 years of freight ops, training, etc. It is not easy being a loco pilot, especially on passenger ops.

The above is a single facet of IR ops. This accident was perhaps not due to human error, but equipment failure. But I gave that example to address this rhetorical "we are like this onlee" type posts some posters here are making. This accident is tragic, and needs some corrective actions. It will happen, but most posters here will probably not stick around to read the CRS/inquiry report once it's available. Or file RTIs to get the info on action taken, etc. No sir, just post on an internet forum asking these rhetorically and feel better, after all, that arm-chair is very comfortable.

Now, assuming this happened due to rail-fracture, as my morning paper is saying (DH, BLR edition). There are track inspection machines which can be used to scan the rails for cracks, and are far more accurate than manually checking. This has to be combined with regular track renewal as a preventive measure, so we don't use tracks beyond their lives. However, the inspection machines, while definitely used and required, will still not prevent all accidents, for the simple reason that they can't be at all places at all times. Especially in an overloaded system like ours, where the time for safety and engineering works is limited due to heavy traffic. These machines can be effective only when there is sufficient breathing room on the infra front - after all, the line has to be blocked for these machines as well. So again, it boils down to infra - we need more tracks first if all accidents are to be eliminated*.

* No rail system has eliminated accidents. Please refer Spain, US, etc. over the past couple of years. Japan has, and is worth studying to see what we can emulate. But we CANNOT en masse emulate them either, as India is different and needs custom solutions.

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 21 Nov 2016 08:42

I know the volume and number of freight / passenger trains in India. I am only talking of the most basic needs for the poorest traveler, he/she needs treated like a human!! . All you have to do is go to Lucknow, Bhopal, Nagpur and just see how people board the trains in general boggies, If you have then go see it again. simple steps like boarding-time ticket checking (like in movie theatres), basic cleanliness, keeping loitering taunts off platforms, proper display/comprehensible announcement makes me ask you all again "do we deserve bullet trains" even if it's given to us for free?

(my last on the topic)

ragupta · Post by **ragupta** » 21 Nov 2016 08:53

Rishi Verma wrote:I know the volume and number of freight / passenger trains in India. I am only talking of the most basic needs for the poorest traveler, he/she needs treated like a human!! . All you have to do is go to Lucknow, Bhopal, Nagpur and just see how people board the trains in general boggies, If you have then go see it again. simple steps like boarding-time ticket checking (like in movie theatres), basic cleanliness, keeping loitering taunts off platforms, proper displaay/comprehensible announcement makes me ask you all again "do we deserve bullet trains" even if it's given to us for free?

(my last on the topic)

First this then that logic is not good, it may work at home when parents say to kid do this, then u will get this toy.
By this logic, we do not deserver Metro, which is quite good and people are behaving.

People wants facility but will destroy when they have to pay for it, IR prices is cheapest, not saying it is the reason for choatic scenario. Parallel effort is required, when people get alternative, pressure will degree in the economic class. Do not stop progress just because something existing is not yet working perfectly. Do this and that also for more development and faster progress.

ragupta · Post by **ragupta** » 21 Nov 2016 08:59

Dipanker wrote:^ For starter we can save 10's of thousands of lives by just fencing the tracks in the populated area and building overbridge and under passes for crossing. An estimated 15,000 people are killed just by being over run by the train.

Go for private and public development model to convert stations into multipurpose commercial complexes. most stations are on prime land. It should be like airport.

Auction the side of the tract for advertising company and ask company to grow plants, keep the enchrocher away. there is lot of land and undeveloped and untilized. The private is greedy for making money, once you give it to them they know how to run it better.
No different than like auctioning coal or radio frequency signals.

ragupta · Post by **ragupta** » 21 Nov 2016 09:06

Japan has one of the best train system, by involving them you will get the collective experience they have accumulated over the years. Why waste time reinventing the wheel, to get head start, use the talent that is already existing and they are ready to share.

Money will come and go, if you want to do it on our own, you will spend more money and may not be able to perfect it either. Our own planners vision so far has not been to international standard.

So build infrastructure, money will come and go...

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 21 Nov 2016 10:11

Initial findings suggest that Sunday's tragedy was caused due to rail fracture.
TOI - Link

disha · Post by **disha** » 21 Nov 2016 11:53

I think anybody who goes against the bullet train should be summarily banned for 3 days. For being economically stupid.

[OR not reading the excellent posts in previous pages]

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 21 Nov 2016 12:18

Rishi Verma wrote:I know the volume and number of freight / passenger trains in India. I am only talking of the most basic needs for the poorest traveler, he/she needs treated like a human!! . All you have to do is go to Lucknow, Bhopal, Nagpur and just see how people board the trains in general boggies, If you have then go see it again. simple steps like boarding-time ticket checking (like in movie theatres), basic cleanliness, keeping loitering taunts off platforms, proper display/comprehensible announcement makes me ask you all again "do we deserve bullet trains" even if it's given to us for free?

(my last on the topic)

Interesting. First you say "treated like a human", and then say "boarding-time checking" among other things. The other things I don't disagree with, but do you realize boarding time checking for the poorest traveller means he cannot go home or to work? I hope you do know why people crowd even in toilets (yes, I have seen that plenty of times) to get to their destination - it's simply desperation to get to that job and make some money for their family. Which in turn, comes from a severe lack of opportunity at home.

Now please tell me, how will "boarding time checking" ensure fluffy feel good things like "treated like a human"? So such people can sleep on the platform for 2 days waiting for their turn to travel to their destination? But but, they can't sleep on the platform either, as that is also "inhuman". So let them go to a nearby hotel and wait for a spot on a future day's train. Marie Antoinette comes to mind.

Did it ever occur that the solution for this issue is a)better economic opportunities closer to home, b)adequate alternative transport options, and c)plenty of trains with on-demand seating. IR cannot solve (a) or (b), but can solve (c), for which it needs more infra. Back to my original point.

I have also posted earlier on this thread on why there is persistent over-crowding on trains, especially up north. Maybe, just maybe, a lack of local bus transport for short haul traffic? Is that also IR's problem to solve, so a passenger can be "treated like a human"?

IR has to deal with India's social problems as it is the transporter of the last resort. Given this scenario, such hand waving like "treat like a human" does not mean anything. As if IR is selling toilet seat tickets. If one is so concerned, one can try to get performant state govts elected, which can actually create better opportunities for folks at home, instead of focussing on caste-type nonsense. And also provide basic infra like adequate bus transport (which are well within the states' domains), so people can travel with dignity. That will automatically impact the railway overcrowding as well, at least on short-haul sections.

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 21 Nov 2016 13:14

arshyam wrote:
Rishi Verma wrote:I know the volume and number of freight / passenger trains in India. I am only talking of the most basic needs for the poorest traveler, he/she needs treated like a human!! . All you have to do is go to Lucknow, Bhopal, Nagpur and just see how people board the trains in general boggies, If you have then go see it again. simple steps like boarding-time ticket checking (like in movie theatres), basic cleanliness, keeping loitering taunts off platforms, proper display/comprehensible announcement makes me ask you all again "do we deserve bullet trains" even if it's given to us for free?

(my last on the topic)
Interesting. First you say "treated like a human", and then say "boarding-time checking" among other things. The other things I don't disagree with, but do you realize boarding time checking for the poorest traveller means he cannot go home or to work? I hope you do know why people crowd even in toilets (yes, I have seen that plenty of times) to get to their destination - it's simply desperation to get to that job and make some money for their family. Which in turn, comes from a severe lack of opportunity at home.

Now please tell me, how will "boarding time checking" ensure fluffy feel good things like "treated like a human"? So such people can sleep on the platform for 2 days waiting for their turn to travel to their destination? But but, they can't sleep on the platform either, as that is also "inhuman". So let them go to a nearby hotel and wait for a spot on a future day's train. Marie Antoinette comes to mind.

Did it ever occur that the solution for this issue is a)better economic opportunities closer to home, b)adequate alternative transport options, and c)plenty of trains with on-demand seating. IR cannot solve (a) or (b), but can solve (c), for which it needs more infra. Back to my original point.

I have also posted earlier on this thread on why there is persistent over-crowding on trains, especially up north. Maybe, just maybe, a lack of local bus transport for short haul traffic? Is that also IR's problem to solve, so a passenger can be "treated like a human"?

Amazing that you are suggesting that people should be allowed to ride without tickets. Amazing that you are saying allow them to ride even if they crowd the toilets.

Amazing also that you think buses are bad so railways should allow the same inhuman treatment in the general boggies. Just amazing strawmanship rant.

Gov should invest in longer platforms, longer trains, higher frequency, eliminate sleeper coach nonsense and allow higher seating configurations (double decker etc).

The train that derailed was 200% overcrowded, with half without confirmed tickets. Gov should increase capacity and not go by your amazing logic that since bus routes are bad we should allow the same system that the British left us with... Just freaking amazing

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 21 Nov 2016 13:36

Rishi Verma wrote:Amazing that you are suggesting that people should be allowed to ride without tickets. Amazing that you are saying allow them to ride even if they crowd the toilets.

Amazing also that you think buses are bad so railways should allow the same inhuman treatment in the general boggies. Just amazing strawmanship rant.

Gov should invest in longer platforms, longer trains, higher frequency, eliminate sleeper coach nonsense and allow higher seating configurations (double decker etc).

The train that derailed was 200% overcrowded, with half without confirmed tickets. Gov should increase capacity and not go by your amazing logic that since bus routes are bad we should allow the same system that the British left us with... Just freaking amazing

Can't come up with a proper rebuttal, eh? Why don't you start by doing some homework? For starters, please look into line block lengths, loop line lengths, and 24-coach rake lengths, pit line lengths, servicing capacity, etc. Then loco haulage capacity, coupler strengths, etc. Most importantly, availability of coaches. If you don't know what they are, Googleshwara is your friend. Then come back here with your findings on "longer trains". Similarly for other elitist bullshit like "eliminate sleeper coach nonsense". News to you: not everyone is born with a silver spoon. And what was that about greater frequency? What do you think it currently is?

This takes the cake:

Rishi Verma wrote:Amazing that you are suggesting that people should be allowed to ride without tickets.

I said nothing of the sort. That's another elitist assumption on your part: that the poor travellers overcrowd, so they don't buy tickets. Boarding time checking means you can allow only up to the seating capacity, which is 108 for general coaches. Beyond that limit, people even with tickets won't be allowed on board. But are there only 108 people wanting to travel by that coach on that train? I will let you figure it out - I am sure you know the answer to it.

Half baked posts with little understanding of how India and IR runs are ruling this thread. On top of it, suggestions without applying a single neuron toward analysing the underlying problems, but only want to do

and dishing out Kejriwal-esque solutions. Be my guest, till a mod lowers the boom.

Sicanta · Post by **Sicanta** » 21 Nov 2016 16:55

What I am reading in vernacular newspapers and news channels is that the coaches were making a peculiar noise whenevr the train was traveling at speed. It was first noticed by passengers near Lalitpur before Jhansi and they informed the TC. But the directions were given to bring the train to kanpur. (The latter tidbit was mentioned in dainik jagran alone). Below article is quoting LP written report at Kanpur Central

Sicanta · Post by **Sicanta** » 21 Nov 2016 22:35

I hope the above is not true or else it will be a case of manslaughter