Understanding the United States of America (USA) - IV

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 23 Nov 2016 21:58

Singha wrote:+72

the only place where indians by default are not soft meaty zero-political-fallout targets is ... india

You sure about it saar ?

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 23 Nov 2016 22:09

Rudradev wrote:
The ironic thing is, outcomes probably wouldn't have been very different if things had gone the other way. President HRC would not have pursued prosecution of DT on Trump University or myriad other things. She would not have acted against Breitbart or the alt-right/white supremacists in any meaningful way. And the same sacrifices would be made to appease desperately angry supporters of a losing Donald Trump.

The Deep State always wins. And we always lose.

I tell my friends that Democrats are Prop'ers and Republicans are Slap'ers. Slapping cycle is on the raise.

Slightly in different thought, demographics are against deepstate so they are taking early control than going for brutal option later, unlike India that couldn't diffuse Demographic bomb earlier and left with bad option.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Nov 2016 22:19

and all these adjustments being forced on DT is right now being marketed as DT growing up to be a "statesman" and "maturing in his views" and "gravity of POTUS office"

next thing we know he will meow convincingly like MMS

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 23 Nov 2016 22:21

Wait, maybe there is another reason.
Maybe DT is saying he will not prosecute HC because otherwise Ombaba might just pardon her through the American silly system. So he might be hoping that Ombaba will not and he could change his tune after becoming POTUS

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 23 Nov 2016 22:28

buses missed by mehico:

the japan bus: commoditization of large number of gadgets.
the korea bus: mobile phones business and related gadgets.
the china bus: small manufacturing and replacement of japanese supply of gadgets.
the vietnam bus: garments, textiles and ancillary manufacturing.
the India bus: software, raw material, IT services sector.
the Euro bus: auto manufacturing + IT manufacturing + high-end boutique stuff
the Singapore bus: backoffice + high end IT + investment banking hub

Part of the reason for Mehico as well as rest of Latin America missing all the buses above, IMO is Americans preference for orientals (Japanese, Koreans, Chinese) than the mestizos.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 23 Nov 2016 22:29

but the alt.right anger will spill over onto mainstream life - more so if el naranjito has let them down than if HRC had ignored them
the only saving grace for el naranjito will be if small town unemployed white man feels that some dumb n***a of any non-white shade is worse off than him

sticky times ahead

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 23 Nov 2016 23:22

manju wrote:
Paul wrote:Children will face unfiltered racism in schools and parks. No matter how much we shut the outside world out we cannot fence our children from taunts and jeers from rhetoric.
Something for American Indians to think about....
My friend from college has married a wasp lady as his wife. Nice lady.. a prof in law school. She was very concerned with this issues. Her kids (of mixed WASP and India race) were apparently at the receiving end of this behavior in a public place.... in the heart of Mormon land in khanland

U can't deal with this by dhoti-shivering. AFAIK, the Bill of Rights has not been replaced by the Duke of alt-Rights. Learn from the Jews: Sue the pants off every sh1t-head. This is where desis need to learn to organize and focus economic, legal-brain and writing-skill powers. Make it known widely: Diss desis, face 10 years of UNRELENTING legal pursuit until stripped of everything.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 23 Nov 2016 23:30

some folks enthu here for the alt-right reminds me of the Clayton Bigsby character in a Chappelle skit..

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 23 Nov 2016 23:30

Transcript Of Trump's Meeting At New York Times On November 21, 2016

Nice words about India !

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 23 Nov 2016 23:47

alt. right is not the only ones we need to worry about. The rest are equally bad. All this alt-right dhoti shiver inducing posts are a bit hypocritical because these are the same folks who advise against dhoti shivering in many other contexts. The current trend of this pretty much seems like y'all are trying to remind everyone else - "Told u so". Can we stop this and talk about any options, either along lines of UB's suggestion or other ones?

In tamil (nadu) we still continue to remind ourselves of the old saying - இராமண் ஆண்டாலும் இராவணன் ஆண்டாலும் எனக்கு ஒரு கவலை இல்லை (Ram rajya or Ravan rajya, I don't care.)

We should be prepared for the different eventualities under different raj in massa.

Sorry about rant.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Nov 2016 00:09

it is not just dhoti shiver and it is not just law suits - it is political mobilisation
other indian diasporas have been through it
yamreeka was ram rajya for desis all these years
you too will adjust onlee...

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 24 Nov 2016 01:02

Arjun wrote:
Hitesh wrote:Ok then why do you attack American indians for voting for HRC? You shouldn't be criticizing those people for electing HRC. It is not your fight. Stay out of it.
It would be good if Indian Americans were to at the least use the correct term for their own community.

I just use the phrase that Rudradev used. I refer to myself as Indian American. American Indian often refers to native Americans in case Rudradev didn;t know that.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 24 Nov 2016 01:03

Lalmohan wrote: yamreeka was ram rajya for desis all these years
you too will adjust onlee...

Why the implication that this will get only bad? we shall see..

ram rajya or ravan rajya, we need to take care of our business. And we have been and will continue. No govt in massa was so yindu-pasand to help us. They brought us in to help themselves and we all know that wouldn't think twice to throw us out if it suits them.

Probably the pakis will have it worse sooner.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 24 Nov 2016 01:07

NRao wrote:Brietbart took a solid swipe at the Donald for declining to prosecute Hillary. As did many alt-rights

Trump probably realized that there was no case to begin with. How could there be? The Congress investigated Hillary to the T and yet couldn't find anything to prosecute her with. The angst of the alt-right goes to show how deeply Trump pandered to their deep wishes that Hillary just be strung up and hanged no matter what the truth is or the innocence of it.

This was Trump's winning strategy. Promise to lock up Hillary and paint Hillary as the villain and the alt right would come out and support Trump. Well, Trump is gonna find out the hard way once he reaps what he sowed. Once you break it, you own it.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 24 Nov 2016 01:24

Ok, this is too good.

viewtopic.php?p=2078643#p2078643

Hitesh wrote:
Rudradev wrote:
I've stated quite plainly, in previous posts, that I am not a US citizen and have no vote to cast in US elections. But I understand that it's far easier to make unwarranted assumptions than to read, so carry on.
Ok then why do you attack American indians for voting for HRC? You shouldn't be criticizing those people for electing HRC. It is not your fight. Stay out of it.

Then...

viewtopic.php?p=2079060#p2079060

Hitesh wrote:
Arjun wrote: It would be good if Indian Americans were to at the least use the correct term for their own community.
I just use the phrase that Rudradev used. I refer to myself as Indian American. American Indian often refers to native Americans in case Rudradev didn;t know that.

There are few things more pathetic than a poster who relies on the presumed illiteracy of others as the sole pillar of his credibility.

I challenge this poster to provide evidence of two things s/he/it has already accused me of.

1) Point to any post of mine where I have referred to Indian Americans as "American Indians".

2) Point to any post of mine where I attacked "American indians" (sic) for voting for HRC.

I have never attacked anybody for voting for any candidate in the US election.

Have I spoken out about the dangers that an HRC presidency would have posed to India? Hell yes. As someone with India's interests at heart, that damn well IS "my fight". People with more than a couple of brain cells to rub together would recognize that this is distinct from "attacking" her voters.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 24 Nov 2016 02:27

Serious question from a moderation perspective:

How does a catfight between DT and HRC arguments help the the purpose of this thread. What are we 'understanding' here anyway ? That certain posters probably need time to calm down before they're prescibed a BP medicine ?

I'm completely serious. This thread serves nothing more than a proxy battleground post elections. What use is that ?

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 24 Nov 2016 02:40

Suraj,

Would appreciate more than an "equal-equalizing" overall perspective from the mods here.

Why not take time to read the thread, and call out specific posters who persist with "re-fighting" the election? Rather than some of us who are actively trying to parse out what the newly elected regime, and its policy postures, mean for India and Indian-origin people living in the US?

I've long since moved past any partisanship I might have shown towards either candidate before November 8th and I'm trying to highlight developments that are either alarming or (in some cases) worthy of optimism from an Indian perspective. I happen to think these are important and, yes, in the most practical sense, fundamentally necessary to our understanding of the US and the changes it is undergoing.

DT supporters expressing taqleef that I criticize the "alt-Right" in my posts need to get over the election and focus on what's best for Indians as a people going forward. Unless they think they're somehow immune to the consequences of this development. Meanwhile, HRC supporters need to get over the fact that their candidate lost, and recognize that her victory would have brought its own set of dire problems for India and Indians in tow.

Can you imagine Israeli-Americans and Jewish-Americans behaving like this, rather than pivoting around to face the new reality in unison?

After all, whose side are these guys on? And if they're not unquestioningly on the side of India, and the sons and daughters of India wherever they may be... why are they here?

ssundar · Post by **ssundar** » 24 Nov 2016 02:47

KJo wrote:Wait, maybe there is another reason.
Maybe DT is saying he will not prosecute HC because otherwise Ombaba might just pardon her through the American silly system. So he might be hoping that Ombaba will not and he could change his tune after becoming POTUS

HRC is the fountain of joys that keeps giving. I am not sure Ombaba can pardon her for all past deeds known or unknown. He can only pardon her for the "crime" of keeping GOTUSA confidential emails in a private server. There will be a lot more that DT can pick.

Seems clear that DT is getting some instructions to fall in line.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 24 Nov 2016 02:49

Sorry, the point isn't to provide equal treatment of all. Thread moderation first and foremost deals with keeping threads from going off the rails with angry emotional conversation. What Israelis or Jews think is irrrelevant.

So the question again is, what is the purpose of this thread ? What differentiates it from the India-US thread ? "trying to parse out what the newly elected regime, and its policy postures, mean for India and Indian-origin people living in the US" is perfectly ok in the India-US thread.

Why does this one exist ? Right now, it's nothing more than a cesspool kept apart from the India-US thread so it can be more easily deleted. 'Some of us are trying' is not sufficiently meaningful. If that implies most people aren't, then the thread's not worth keeping around.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 24 Nov 2016 02:58

It's up to the mods, of course. My understanding is that this thread could get deeper into the nuances of US politics and policymaking imperatives, analyzing how American political entities and the deep state respond to all sorts of inputs: social, economic, internal and external.

These matters don't directly relate to the US' relationship with the Republic of India, which would be germane to the "India-US Relations" thread, but could better inform our understanding of how the US government behaves in different situations and the likely effects of such dynamics on India-US relations.

But it's not my baby, so I won't complain if it's chucked out with the bathwater

Added later, a more serious suggestion: lock the thread for a week or ten days. Maybe that will give some people time to get over the election results and come back to the discussion with an unequivocal India/Indian First perspective.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 24 Nov 2016 03:13

Unfortunately this thread is not heading that way. It's not in our interest to see useful posters scratch each others faces off in a political argument, however germane the few nandi droppings of useful information may be in between the partisan discussions.

A discussion of the level you envision requires at least a few thought leaders to have the ability to focus on the specifics of the topic, keep their own peace when someone butts in with a partisan comment, and report posts without fanning the flames themselves.

In the absence of any of this, this thread will be a 'snapchat thread', one that just exists for a while to let off steam before going poof. So if you think the topic is sufficiently useful, you have to have the continued leadership over the direction to make it worthwhile.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Nov 2016 04:52

I hear that Gov. Nikki Haley of South Carolina has been appointed as UN Amby. Good news I suppose - though the post has not seen anyone with any depth or class for decades. This is a classy Governor who has excelled in a particularly tough neighborhood and done it quietly in a place known for loudmouthed corrupt idiots.

If true it shows that DT govt is seriously outclassing BO regime in picking REALLY good people for jobs rather than just picking convenient ass-kissing "quota tokens".

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 24 Nov 2016 04:56

From what I remember the Obomber UN Amby seems to be too brash and trying to pick a fight with Russian time and again.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Nov 2016 05:13

Pleasant disposition of a mosquito, and intellect to match.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 24 Nov 2016 05:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3K1pGN-O8I

Many valid points & excellent articulation.

Wish india too gets such articulate people soon(akin to Milo or Ben Shaprio) to blast our sikular "intellectuals" & paidmedia on every stage.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 24 Nov 2016 06:14

This milo guy - first time I am hearing him, indeed is very articulate and has tremendous maturity while expressing himself.

The points, while valid for some, are not so for others. That is what is globalization. Through globalization, countries like US are able to get into consumerism while so (wrongly) called turd world countries are into exporting, devaluing their currency, etc. Agreed there are some gains, but this system imo is very similar to manu smiriti. The Brahmins, khastriyas and Vysyaas are all in 1st world. Shudras are all in 3rd world.

If one were to grow up the value chain towards the top of the pyramid, one has to either be well connected with US or be here. Thus this concept is designed to keep the wealth and control where it is. And systems like these are those that give them the audacity to tell Injuns that due to global warming you have no right to start new industries, you people start eating and consuming too much and thus jack up the commodity prices. whiskey tango foxtrot only..

Different matter that the side affect of this is that first worlders ended up shooting themselves in the foot with various financial services/stock market scams and ended up disenfranchising large sections of their own population. Alt right seems like one such very potent by product.

And there is going to be more..

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Nov 2016 07:19

CNN Headlines:
Hillary Clinton's Lead In Presidential Election Extends to 1.82 Million!!!
2015 Calendars on Early Clearance Sale!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Nov 2016 07:33

Rudradev,
About ten years ago you and Ramanujan had many discussions about herding instinct and one of you quoted about 16 % of a herd veering in a direction will make the whole herd trend in that direction. Recall?

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 24 Nov 2016 08:44

UlanBatori wrote:CNN Headlines:
Hillary Clinton's Lead In Presidential Election Extends to 1.82 Million!!!
2015 Calendars on Early Clearance Sale!

Old news, she has now crossed 2 million.

It is obvious that nation as a whole has voted for her.

2016 National Popular Vote Tracker

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Nov 2016 08:54

Wow! Most of that comes from 6 places where the vote was pretty lopsided:
1. DupleeCity
2. Maryland (same thing)
3. Massachusssssssettttttssss (aka Massaland)
4. California
5. Hawaii
6. New York.
I can't understand what California, Land Of The Terminator (and of Fruits & Nuts), saw in someone as boring as HiC. They are supposed to vote anti-Establishment/anti-DC.
Also, why New Yorkers didn't vote against her, having seen her up close for years as Senator.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 24 Nov 2016 09:01

Dems may have some weeping to be finished now. Internally they need to do some reforms. Doing away with the automatic delegates is one thing. It has given HC huge advantage. It will slowly kill the party with entire DC gang supporting next HC type candidate against popular leaders.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 24 Nov 2016 09:06

GShankar wrote:
Lalmohan wrote: yamreeka was ram rajya for desis all these years
you too will adjust onlee...
Why the implication that this will get only bad? we shall see..

ram rajya or ravan rajya, we need to take care of our business. And we have been and will continue. No govt in massa was so yindu-pasand to help us. They brought us in to help themselves and we all know that wouldn't think twice to throw us out if it suits them.

Probably the pakis will have it worse sooner.

^^^+1000

Rammpal · Post by **Rammpal** » 24 Nov 2016 09:07

UlanBatori wrote:I hear that Gov. Nikki Haley of South Carolina has been appointed as UN Amby. Good news I suppose - though the post has not seen anyone with any depth or class for decades. This is a classy Governor who has excelled in a particularly tough neighborhood and done it quietly in a place known for loudmouthed corrupt idiots.

If true it shows that DT govt is seriously outclassing BO regime in picking REALLY good people for jobs rather than just picking convenient ass-kissing "quota tokens".

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/us-e ... 583508.cms

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Nov 2016 10:37

Lalmohan wrote:it is not just dhoti shiver and it is not just law suits - it is political mobilisation
other indian diasporas have been through it
yamreeka was ram rajya for desis all these years
you too will adjust onlee...

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 24 Nov 2016 10:49

UlanBatori wrote:Wow! Most of that comes from 6 places where the vote was pretty lopsided:
1. DupleeCity
2. Maryland (same thing)
3. Massachusssssssettttttssss (aka Massaland)
4. California
5. Hawaii
6. New York.
I can't understand what California, Land Of The Terminator (and of Fruits & Nuts), saw in someone as boring as HiC. They are supposed to vote anti-Establishment/anti-DC.
Also, why New Yorkers didn't vote against her, having seen her up close for years as Senator.

Both east and west coast are firmly leftist liberal bastions. Dems are going to win there no matter what (not to mention they also have higher concentration of non-white populations). Arnold was an exception though.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Nov 2016 11:13

I am ok with the trajectory of this thread. a bit of brawling and fighting is part of being "boys" isnt it?

people are free to spend all the time fighting or learning as they see fit.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 24 Nov 2016 11:17

Governor to UN ambassador sounds like a downgrade to me, no?

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 24 Nov 2016 12:09

abhik wrote:Governor to UN ambassador sounds like a downgrade to me, no?

She makes way for the Lt Gov who is a Trump supporter.

ssundar · Post by **ssundar** » 24 Nov 2016 12:47

abhik wrote:Governor to UN ambassador sounds like a downgrade to me, no?

Considering Dems are rumored to have lobbied to get HRC into that position, selection of a better-reputed woman, a Sikh at that, is a serious snub to HRC and the Dems. This could also be a step to position her for 2024. A role in the UN puts her in the eyesight of world leaders.

ssundar · Post by **ssundar** » 24 Nov 2016 12:57

Dipanker wrote: Old news, she has now crossed 2 million.

It is obvious that nation as a whole has voted for her.

2016 National Popular Vote Tracker

Dipanker-ji, I have to praise your effort. You (or someone else) put together such a detailed spreadsheet to "prove" that she won and THAT spreadsheet makes it quite clear that:

1. Each candidate won almost overwhelmingly the states they carried. There wasn't a Hillary "wave".
2. Hillary's lead in popular votes comes entirely from the blindly Democratic, heavily urbanized states. That only enhances the credibility of Trump's win in main street USA that took back the country with a vengeance.

She did not win the "popular" vote. Her voters would vote Democrat even if you dug them out from their grave.