Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Peregrine » 26 Nov 2016 03:40

Surgical strikes have limited utility in case of Pakistan: Former NSA Shiv Shankar Menon
NEW DELHI: India deals with many Pakistanis and the 26/11 terror attacks on Mumbai launched from Pakistani soil might have happened as the civilian government in Islamabad was seen dealing successfully with New Delhi and that Indian governments have reviewed the no first use clause of its nuclear doctrine thrice since 1998, said former National Security Adviser (NSA) Shiv Shankar Menon.

"Pakistan's capacity to sustain normal relations with India is very limited. We are dealing many Pakistanis. Ordinary Pakistanis do not have in-built animosity. But the Pak army has institutional interests in a level of hostility against India. Mumbai might have been happened as the civilian government was seen to be successful. It was timed as it was — Pak Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi was in Delhi when the attacks on Mumbai were launched," Menon told ET in an exclusive interview on the eve of 26/11anniversary.

The Mumbai attacks and India's response figures prominently in Menon's maiden book 'Choices - Inside the Making of India's Foreign Policy' that would be released by former PM Manmohan Singh on December 2. Referring to the choices before India, Menon, who dealt with Pakistan in several capacities first as a High Commissioner between 2003 and 2006 and later as Foreign Secretary as well as NSA, notes that until fundamentals change, India has to manage its ties with neighbouring Pakistan. "It is going to stay difficult for some time. With today's Pakistan, it does not look like the problem cannot be solved today or tomorrow."

Pointing out that India's Pak policy has not achieved its objectives so far, Menon admitted, "To me policy is successful if it creates desired outcomes. But we have not had normal, stable and predictable relationship with Pakistan. It just has not happened. So far, our policy has not achieved desired outcomes from expected occasions. The one occasion when we achieved desired outcome was in 1971."

He feels that the kinetic reaction as the post-Uri surgical strikes, which India has done across the LoC in the past as well, that is targeting launchpads; will not change their mind nor change their sponsors. "This will cause some physical dislocation and they will take a few months to recover. But this is not a solution to the problem of terror. It is useful. But, it has limited utility."

The former NSA, who dealt with such challenges in past, points out that difference was the fact that India chose go to public with the surgical strikes. "That changes the dynamic completely. After you go public, they will also have the incentive to go public. Then escalation happens as visible in the last few weeks."
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Peregrine » 26 Nov 2016 04:31

ensoy Ji :

Some time back you made the following comment
Easily verified by looking at the Plimsoll Line on the ship. I wish we had some news articles with high quality images of the ship taken from the water.


Here is an Article with a photograph of the ship Cosco Wellington taken from the water :

Chinese navy ships to be deployed at Gwadar: Pak navy official

I cannot get the photograph URL but it has a Number : 9484417

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Prem » 26 Nov 2016 04:51

China to stand by Nuclear Power Pakistan if India imposes war: Defence Minister
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/16762 ... e-Minister

ISLAMABAD: Defence Minister Khawaja Asif has stated that China would stand by Pakistan if India imposed war on the latter.In an exclusive interview with Saleem Safi in Geo News programme, ‘Jirga’, Khawaja Asif said, “China is supporting Pakistan in its all affairs related to country’s defence.”Eleven civilians were martyred when Indian forces targeted an ambulance and a passenger bus near the Dhudnial town in Neelum Valley along the Line of Control (LoC) on Wednesday. At least seven people have been injured in the attack.Tensions between the two nuclear-armed nations have been on the rise, ever since the Uri attack took place in Indian occupied Kashmir, which claimed the lives of 17 Indian soldiers.India, without a proper investigation into the attack, blamed Pakistan for having a hand in the terrorist attack. Pakistan vehemently denied accusations and instead, took the issue of India's human rights violations to the United Nations General Assembly.

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Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Peregrine » 26 Nov 2016 05:14

Times Now reporting Two Terrorists presented with 72 and One Soldier Martyred in an Attack in Bandipur

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby svinayak » 26 Nov 2016 05:23

Prem wrote:China to stand by Nuclear Power Pakistan if India imposes war: Defence Minister
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/16762 ... e-Minister

ISLAMABAD: Defence Minister Khawaja Asif has stated that China would stand by Pakistan if India imposed war on the latter.In an exclusive interview with Saleem Safi in Geo News programme, ‘Jirga’, Khawaja Asif said, “China is supporting Pakistan in its all affairs related to country’s defence.”Eleven civilians were martyred when Indian forces targeted an ambulance and a passenger bus near the Dhudnial town in Neelum Valley along the Line of Control (LoC) on Wednesday. At least seven people have been injured in the attack.Tensions between the two nuclear-armed nations have been on the rise, ever since the Uri attack took place in Indian occupied Kashmir, which claimed the lives of 17 Indian soldiers.India, without a proper investigation into the attack, blamed Pakistan for having a hand in the terrorist attack. Pakistan vehemently denied accusations and instead, took the issue of India's human rights violations to the United Nations General Assembly.



There is lot of suspicion on the China Pakistan relations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China ... eopolitics
The China-Pakistan Axis: Asia's New Geopolitics is a book by British author Andrew Small exploring the cultural and political ties as well as depicting the relationship between Pakistan and China, released in early 2015.

The Beijing-Islamabad axis plays a central role in Asia’s geopolitics, from India’s rise to the prospects for a post-American Afghanistan, from the threat of nuclear terrorism to the continent’s new map of mines, ports and pipelines. China is Pakistan’s great economic hope and its most trusted military partner; Pakistan is the battleground for China’s encounters with Islamic militancy and the heart of its efforts to counterbalance the emerging US-India partnership. For decades, each country has been the other’s only ‘all-weather’ friend. Yet the relationship is still little understood. The wildest claims about it are widely believed, while many of its most dramatic developments are hid- den from the public eye. This book sets out the recent history of Sino-Pakistani ties and their ramifications for the West, for India, for Afghanistan, and for Asia as a whole. It tells the stories behind some of its most sensitive aspects, including Beijing’s support for Pakistan’s nuclear program, China’s dealings with the Taliban, and the Chinese military’s planning for crises in Pakistan. And it describes a relationship increasingly shaped by Pakistan’s internal strife, and the dilemmas China faces between the need for regional stability and the imperative for strategic competition with India and the USA.[5]

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby svinayak » 26 Nov 2016 05:34

pankajs wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Chinese-navy-ships-to-be-deployed-at-Gwadar-Pak-navy-official/articleshow/55622674.cms

Having a naval base in Gwadar could allow Chinese vessels to use the port for repair and maintenance of their fleet in the Indian Ocean region. Such a foothold would be the first overseas location offering support to the Chinese navy for future missions.

Pakistani defence officials are keen for the Chinese navy to build up its presence in the Indian Ocean and the Arabia sea, mainly to counterbalance India's formidable naval force.

Pak dont know that many nations in the world dont like Chinese Navy to be deployed near their waters or in other places

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Amoghvarsha » 26 Nov 2016 05:40

Prem wrote:China to stand by Nuclear Power Pakistan if India imposes war: Defence Minister
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/16762 ... e-Minister

ISLAMABAD: Defence Minister Khawaja Asif has stated that China would stand by Pakistan if India imposed war on the latter.In an exclusive interview with Saleem Safi in Geo News programme, ‘Jirga’, Khawaja Asif said, “China is supporting Pakistan in its all affairs related to country’s defence.”Eleven civilians were martyred when Indian forces targeted an ambulance and a passenger bus near the Dhudnial town in Neelum Valley along the Line of Control (LoC) on Wednesday. At least seven people have been injured in the attack.Tensions between the two nuclear-armed nations have been on the rise, ever since the Uri attack took place in Indian occupied Kashmir, which claimed the lives of 17 Indian soldiers.India, without a proper investigation into the attack, blamed Pakistan for having a hand in the terrorist attack. Pakistan vehemently denied accusations and instead, took the issue of India's human rights violations to the United Nations General Assembly.


BAKIS claim a lot of things,doesnt mean they are true.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby svinayak » 26 Nov 2016 05:41

Peregrine wrote:Firing from across the border has stopped in last 2 days: Manohar Parrikar

PANAJI: Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar today said the firing from across the border had stopped in the last two days as the enemy was feeling the heat of retaliation.


"The day before yesterday we got a call from them pleading us to stop the retaliation," Parrikar said, referring to request for DGMO- level talks from Pakistan.


"For the first time Union Government allowed the Army to enter PoK and teach lesson to those involved in the cowardly act against our forces," he said, referring to surgical strike after Uri attack.


This quiet could be related to Sartaj Aziz visit to India for some conference
When he visits India The cross border firing should start and another 100 Pak posts should be destroyed.
Fire until they come to the table for talks.


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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby svinayak » 26 Nov 2016 07:21

X post

UlanBatori wrote:
prashanth wrote:Henry Kissinger's stunning revelations about Pakistan in the lead up to the 1971 Indo-Pak war-Times of India



Cannot believe a word of it. Is this gentleman making such (non)sensational statements to stay in relevance now? What is his opinion on the seventh fleet drama if they had 'successfully persuaded' pak to give up b'desh?


Henry Kissinger book MY WHITE HOUSE YEARS says that first move was done by India armored division across the border in Bangladesh and hence Pakistan had to attack. He ignores scores of Pakistan attack on Indian position and across the border incursion even during 1971 just like how it is now in 2016.
With HK publication it shows they were trying to protect Pakistan for so long during the cold war.

https://www.amazon.com/White-House-Year ... 1451636431
http://jeremisuri.net/wp-content/upload ... xcerpt.pdf
https://driftlessareareview.com/2010/03 ... kissinger/


Under US pressure, Pakistan had in November agreed to grant independence to what was then East Pakistan, former US diplomat Henry Kissinger has revealed in an interview in the latest issue of The Atlantic magazine.
Instead, Pakistan attacked India a month later, on December 3, 1971, forcing India to retaliate and eventually joined forces with East Pakistan in what would become the Bangladesh Liberation War.
Kissinger's revelation only confirms that Pakistan appears to have a long history of breaking promises.



This is false. US already made overtures to PRC Mao in 1969 in NY and followed up.
They created a pretensions to show Pak was very important during the cold war. Pakistan was elevated into a non NATO ally from 1977 to 2007 which Pakistan used it for state sponsored terrorism against India.

Kissinger, who in 1971 was US National Security Adviser, said that the US couldn't directly condemn Pakistan's "gross human-rights violations" in East Pakistan as it was using Islamabad as an interlocutor to open diplomatic relations with China.
"To condemn these violations publicly would have destroyed the Pakistani channel, which would be needed for months to complete the opening to China ... After the opening to China via Pakistan, America engaged in increasingly urging Pakistan to grant autonomy to Bangladesh.


http://tspwiki.com/index.php?title=Henry_Kissinger
My White House Years
South Asia
During the South Asian crisis in 1971, the White House stood firmly behind Pakistani president Yahya Khan and demonstrated a disdain for India and particularly its leader, Indira Gandhi, because of India's tilt or favoritism towards the Soviet Union. Kissinger had disdain for India and was using Pakistan as a tool to reach China, which he considered much more important to the U.S.

Khan's administration was responding to an insurrection launched by Communist guerillas (the Awami League), armed with Indian weapons and demanding independence for East Pakistan (now Bangladesh), with a massive campaign of violence dubbed "Operation Searchlight." India was exploiting these internal tensions within Pakistan as part of a divide-and-rule strategy; it hoped for Pakistan's division into smaller Indian proxy states that could be played against one another and it used the violence committed by Pakistani forces as a possible pretext for military intervention in Pakistani affairs.

Nixon relayed messages to Yahya, urging him to restrain Pakistani forces.[42] His objective was to prevent a war and safeguard Pakistan's interests, though he feared an Indian invasion of West Pakistan that would lead to Indian domination of the sub-continent and strengthen the position of the Soviet Union.[43] Similarly, Yahya Khan feared that an independent Bangladesh could lead to the disintegration of Pakistan. Indian military support for Bengali guerillas led to war between India and Pakistan.[44]

Nixon met with Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi and did not believe her assertion that she would not invade Pakistan;[45] he did not trust her and once referred to her as an "old witch". Kissinger maintained that Nixon made specific proposals to Gandhi on a solution for the crisis, some of which she heard for the first time; for example, mutual withdrawal of troops from the Indo-East Pakistan borders. Nixon also expressed a wish to fix a time limit with Yahya for political accommodation in East Pakistan. Nixon asserted that India could count on US endeavors to ease the crisis within a short time. But, both Kissinger and Gandhi aide Jayakar maintained, Gandhi did not respond to these proposals. Kissinger noted that she “listened to what was in fact one of Nixon's better presentations with aloof indifference” but “took up none of the points.” Jayakar pointed out that Gandhi listened to Nixon “without a single comment, creating an impregnable space so that no real contact was possible.” She also refrained from assuring that India would follow Pakistan's suit if it withdrew from India's borders. As a result, the main agenda was “dropped altogether.”[46] On December 3, Yahya preemptively attacked the Indian Air Force and Gandhi retaliated, pushing into East Pakistan.[47] Nixon issued a statement blaming Pakistan for starting the conflict and blaming India for escalating it, because he favored a cease-fire.[48] The United States was secretly encouraging the shipment of military equipment from Iran, Turkey, and Jordan to Pakistan, reimbursing those countries despite Congressional objections.[49] The US used the threat of an aid cut-off to force Pakistan to back down, while its continued military aid to Islamabad prevented India from launching incursions deeper into the country. A cease fire was reached on December 16, leading to the creation of the independent state of Bangladesh. Sheikh Mujib led the newly established People's Republic of Bangladesh as a one-party, dictatorial state.

A 2008 study in the British Medical Journal concluded that 269,000 civilians were killed by all sides in the war.[50] Reportedly, as many as 200,000 Bengali women were raped.

The US remained hostile to the Mujib regime, and considered Mujib himself to be a demagogue. His government's mismanagement of food grain stocks ultimately caused a massive famine in Bangladesh from March to December 1974, leading to the death of more than one million people. During this famine, Mujib rejected food aid from the United States and exported food to Cuba. By the time Mujib agreed to end support for Cuba, and the US began shipments of food to Bangladesh, it was 'too late for famine victims'.[51] In addition, his regime committed widespread human rights violations and tortured and executed thousands of dissidents. Nixon and Kissinger argued that these atrocities were far worse than anything Pakistan had committed in Bangladesh.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby SBajwa » 26 Nov 2016 08:10

Turkey has decided to buy 52 Super Mushshak basic trainer aircraft, costing more than $50 million, over the next three years


So all Indians around the world do not buy products from Turkey!! As I discovered this black friday and did not buy anything from China/Pakistan/Turkey/etc!!!

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Prem » 26 Nov 2016 08:37

http://www.voanews.com/a/afghanistan-ob ... 11456.html
Afghanistan Objects to Pakistani Flag Ceremony at Border

SLIMABAD, Jahannumstan-Afghanistan denounced as “improper and provocative” a unilateral flag-lowering ceremony Pakistan recently introduced at a main border crossing with its western neighbor.An Afghan foreign ministry statement Friday warned that the Pakistani action at the Chaman crossing point violates bilateral commitments and “in the present sensitive situation could further vitiate bilateral relations.”
Kabul traditionally opposes Pakistani attempts to construct permanent structures at the border because it does not recognize it as an international boundary between the two countries.Some view the ceremony, including a border force parade, as another attempt by Islamabad to formalize the nearly 2,600-kilometer, mostly porous border, known as the Durand Line.Islamabad rejects all Afghan objections with regard to the Durand Line. It insists the 1893 demarcation by the then-British rulers of the Indian subcontinent is “a settled issue” and it is an "internationally acceptable frontier" Pakistan inherited when it gain independence in 1947.For decades, authorities on both sides issued special travel passes permitting divided tribes to meet with family members in Afghanistan and Pakistan. But all Pakistani travelers are now required to use national passports with valid visas under the new regulations Islamabad has put in place.Afghanistan alleges that militant sanctuaries on Pakistani soil have enabled Taliban insurgents to intensify and prolong the Afghan war, charges that Islamabad rejects.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby yensoy » 26 Nov 2016 09:14

Peregrine wrote:ensoy Ji :
Some time back you made the following comment
Easily verified by looking at the Plimsoll Line on the ship. I wish we had some news articles with high quality images of the ship taken from the water.


Here is an Article with a photograph of the ship Cosco Wellington taken from the water :
Chinese navy ships to be deployed at Gwadar: Pak navy official


Sir as someone else pointed out, the news article itself admitted only empties were being shipped from Gwadar :-?.

What I do know is that US/NATO has some powerful telescopes in strategic places like Gibraltar to keep watch of what ships pass through and how heavily they are loaded.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Baikul » 26 Nov 2016 09:46

Cross posting from the Levant Thread.

Mauleners, how do we avenge this unprovoked and entirely undeserved insult to our national honour?

IndraD wrote:Far right vs refugee clashes in Bulgaria, newly elected PM vows to extradite refugees in large numbers

A group of Bulgarian nationalists, including the notorious ‘refugee hunter’ Dinko Valev, made an appearance at a refugee camp in the border town of Harmanli, following clashes between migrants and riot police over temporary restrictions on leaving the camp.

Dinko Valev, the notorious ‘refugee-hunter,’ who organizes vigilantes to patrol and catch illegal migrants in Bulgaria, also went to the camp.

“As you throw rocks at Bulgarian police officers in there – must we beat you here or what?” the former wrestler asked one refugee in Bulgarian.

“I’m not Muslim, I’m not Pakistani – I’m Iraqi, I’m a Yazidi,” the refugee replied in English to his ranting.

Inhabitants of the camp damaged the facility, setting the premises on fire.
The Harmanli camp, which is the largest in the country, houses around 3,000 people, mostly from Afghanistan.

Bulgarian Prime Minister Boyko Borisov has promised that as early as next month, dozens of Afghanis from the refugee camp will be extradited, Novinite reported.

“We will try to extradite five people immediately because of national security. The others who disturbed the peace will be among the first to be extradited but, until then, they will be placed in closed-type camps. A plane for Afghanistan has already been arranged and it will fly in December,” he added.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby CRamS » 26 Nov 2016 10:58

ParrikarJi has his way with words and I get the feeling he deliberately needles and rubs it into TSP's H&D :-)

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... yJyzM.html

Guys, any thoughts on why ModiJi allowed that fart Sartaj Aziz to set foot in India, even though one can argue that he is in here for an international conference? My problem more is that he will be given an opportunity by usual DDM suspects to spew TSP propaganda.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 26 Nov 2016 11:03

CRamS wrote:ParrikarJi has his way with words and I get the feeling he deliberately needles and rubs it into TSP's H&D :-)

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... yJyzM.html

Guys, any thoughts on why ModiJi allowed that fart Sartaj Aziz to set foot in India, even though one can argue that he is in here for an international conference? My problem more is that he will be given an opportunity by usual DDM suspects to spew TSP propaganda.


He had no choice, besides lower rung of Jihadis will now gun for him, remember Samjauhta- they hate anyone on thier side talking to Indians. Despite what all the UPAA tried to do, Samjauta was a LET operation

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Rishi Verma » 26 Nov 2016 11:07

CRamS wrote:Guys, any thoughts on why ModiJi allowed that fart Sartaj Aziz to set foot in India, even though one can argue that he is in here for an international conference? My problem more is that he will be given an opportunity by usual DDM suspects to spew TSP propaganda.


Not just thoughts but there is a plan. Modi will welcome him warmly on live TV with a bouquet of roses and stuff an envelope of fake currency in his pockets. Pakistanis will label him a a RAA-ijint and give him a mango-carton treatment.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby SSridhar » 26 Nov 2016 13:38

Russia formally requests access to Gwadar Port

Now, what a turn of events ! Pakistan milked the US for five decades on its fears of 'Soviet Union trying to get access to the warm waters of Indian Ocean' by capturing Afghanistan & Pakistan and/or through friendship with a socialist India.

Now, can Pakistan milk an economically tottering Russia, the successor to USSR, by *giving* precisely that access ?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby SSridhar » 26 Nov 2016 14:00

Gen Raheel repeats reason why he is retiring - DT
Before his departure to Okara, the COAS said that he had made the decision regarding his retirement in "national interest".

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Philip » 26 Nov 2016 14:23

Very prescient words from veteran scribe Karlekar. LIke the Boy Scouts motto,he says that we should "be prepared",sooner rather than later for war with Pakistan!

INDIA-PAKISTAN WAR IS SERIOUS BUSINESS
Saturday, 26 November 2016 | Hiranmay Karlekar | in Edit

An India-Pakistan war is a terrible thing. New Delhi must do its best to avoid it, but what if efforts fail? We must be ready with a comprehensive geostrategic plan, encompassing diplomatic and military operations

As the skirmishes with Pakistani troops along the Line of Control in Kashmir and the International Border in Jammu gets more frequent and intense, the possibility of the situation escalating into a conventional war between India and Pakistan can hardly be ruled out. Of course, a war is a terrible thing and India should do everything it can to avoid one. But what happens if India’s best efforts to do that fail? The answer is simple: It should be ready with a comprehensive geo-strategic plan, encompassing both diplomatic and military operations and worked out in detail, to win.

Diplomacy is as important as military action because the gains of the latter can be lost on diplomatic table. This happened to us in the Tashkent agreement of January 1966 after the 1965 war with Pakistan, when we gave back to the latter the Haji Pir Pass which we had won at great cost. It again happened in the Shimla agreement of July 1972, when we returned the over 90,000 Pakistani prisoners of war we held without extracting a Kashmir settlement from Islamabad.

One part of our diplomatic planning would be to have a clear idea of what we would hope to get at the end of the war and what is the minimum that we can accept, and how we should navigate our actions to secure the best we can between these two extremities. Having done this, we should have a clear idea of what we can expect from which country, identifying those that will support us to the hilt and to the last, those that will confine themselves to providing verbal and diplomatic support, those that will speak from all sides of their mouths, and those that can be expected to be outright hostile. The Ministry of External Affairs should have a good idea as to which country belongs to which category.

What it must now do is to formulate a course of action to mobilise each of them to perform a task which it can be reasonably expected to do. For example, India should ensure that, those that one knows would not provide anything more than verbal support, do at least provide that and outspokenly and at fora where they can be active.

The diplomatic aspect needs to be emphasised because Pakistan, which is militarily weaker, will step up its efforts to have a ceasefire clamped by the Security Council before things become too hot for it. Equally, it would want the Council to brand India as the aggressor irrespective of the facts of the case. Such attempts had failed during the 1965 and 1971 wars. In both these cases, India had the Soviet Union’s solid support behind it. In the Kargil War of 1999, Pakistan was so blatantly the aggressor that even the United States asked it to withdraw.

Can we get Russia’s support in the same measure in which we received in 1965 and 1971? The question should be addressed most seriously given India’s increasingly close ties with the United States and Russia’s more than mild flirtation with Pakistan. This in turn gives a sharp edge to the question: How much support can we expect from the US in a war with Pakistan? Despite recent bursts of euphoria over the extremely cordial ties between the world’s richest and largest democracies, past record is by no means reassuring. The US has continued to pour huge amounts into Pakistan as aid despite the latter’s growing support to the Afghan Taliban and organisations like Lashkar-e-Tayyeba which are attacking the Government in Kabul that Washington supports, and killing US servicemen in Afghanistan. There is unlikely to be any change in this situation.

Clearly, India needs to work pretty hard on its foreign policy vis-à-vis Pakistan while preparing at the military level to foil its aggressive thrust. No war should be taken lightly, and certainly not one with Pakistan which has a good, professional Army and, over the last 15 years, built up a huge and sophisticated arsenal, with weapons mainly for us against India, with vast funds received from the US. Unfortunately, India’s defence purchases were negligible during the 10 years of the United Progressive Alliance’s Government from 2004 to 2014. As a result, the National Democratic Alliance that came into power in the latter year, found itself forced to go on a crash course of defence acquisition. While it has made some progress, much remains to be done particularly since the delivery of items for which a number of agreements been signed will take several years.

The point is that we must be prepared in every respect to win in case a war becomes unavoidable. One reason why we could wrap up the Bangladesh campaign in 1971 is that we waited till the conditions were right. A war during the monsoon when Bangladesh’s formidable rivers were in full spate and all tributaries and canals brimming, would have been very slow and international pressure may have forced us to a halt before we had occupied Dhaka. Equally, we had to ensure that we had the right kind of military hardware and in full measure. Thus, while we had to conserve as much ammunition as we could during the 1965 war, we were under no such constraint in 1971.

Being ready means not only having the military hardware and the strategic and tactical planning in place, but being prepared for operations behind the enemy’s lines, utilising to the full Pakistan’s political and societal faultines. This in turn underlines the importance of our providing material, and not just moral, support to Balochistan’s struggle for justice and the struggle by Shias in Pakistan to live with dignity and security. There can be no under-estimation of the need for this. Pakistan will certainly utilise the widespread network its Directorate-General of Inter-Services Intelligence has built up in India.

That this is not pointless fear-mongering becomes clear on recalling the blast in the New Jalpaiguri railway station on June 22, 1999, which killed nine persons, including three Kargil-bound jawans, and injured 80. The act, which the then chief minister of West Bengal, Buddhadev Bhattacharjee unambiguously attributed to the ISI, was a part of Pakistan’s efforts to interdict the movement of goods and supplies from north-eastern India to Kargil.

Any plan to cope with a war with Pakistan must include both a plan to ensure internal security and pay it back in its coin by lighting fires in its backyards. The sooner we are prepared to do this, the better.


(The writer is Consultant Editor, The Pioneer, and an author)


PS:Pak in times of crisis has before used war as an option against India to divert attention. The current situ in India after demonitisation ,with much chaos confusion around in the economy,gives it a rare window of opportunity for mischief. Moving two divisions which were on the Afghan border to the LOC shows its intent.The transition of a new Army chief in Pak and weakness of the Nawaz regime too makes the current situ very unpredictable,esp. when you add the China factor as the latest US report says is doing everything using Pak to curtail India. Chinese warships are now to base themselves at Gwadar.As karlekar says,we must be prepared...and fast.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby SSridhar » 26 Nov 2016 18:24

Lt Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa chosen as new army chief - DAWN

Is he a Qadiani?

Lt Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa was something of a dark horse in this race for the post of COAS. He is currently serving at the GHQ as Inspector General of Training and Evaluation — the position Gen Sharif held before becoming army chief — he has commanded the 10 Corps, the army’s largest, which is responsible for the area along the Line of Control (LoC).

Lt Gen Bajwa has extensive experience of handling affairs in Kashmir and the northern areas of the country. As a major general, he led the Force Command Northern Areas. He also served in the 10 Corps as lieutenant colonel, where he was GSO.

Despite his extensive involvement with Kashmir and northern areas, he is said to consider extremism a bigger threat for the country than India.

Kashi
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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Kashi » 26 Nov 2016 18:32

SSridhar wrote:Is he a Qadiani?


If he is, does it make Nawaz coup proof for the foreseeable future?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby habal » 26 Nov 2016 18:46

SSridhar wrote:Lt Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa chosen as new army chief - DAWN

Is he a Qadiani?

Lt Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa was something of a dark horse in this race for the post of COAS. He is currently serving at the GHQ as Inspector General of Training and Evaluation — the position Gen Sharif held before becoming army chief — he has commanded the 10 Corps, the army’s largest, which is responsible for the area along the Line of Control (LoC).

Lt Gen Bajwa has extensive experience of handling affairs in Kashmir and the northern areas of the country. As a major general, he led the Force Command Northern Areas. He also served in the 10 Corps as lieutenant colonel, where he was GSO.

Despite his extensive involvement with Kashmir and northern areas, he is said to consider extremism a bigger threat for the country than India.


he was NS's favorite from the beginning. I had a feeling he would be appointed.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby habal » 26 Nov 2016 18:52

Kashi wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Is he a Qadiani?


If he is, does it make Nawaz coup proof for the foreseeable future?



Qamar Javed Bajwa's name was proposed to NS by raheel sharif as his successor.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby chetak » 26 Nov 2016 19:21

habal wrote:
Kashi wrote:
If he is, does it make Nawaz coup proof for the foreseeable future?



Qamar Javed Bajwa's name was proposed to NS by raheel sharif as his successor.


will it also have a hangman's noose ending like it did for bhutto??

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby habal » 26 Nov 2016 19:43

bajwa's wikipedia

Since Bajwa has been posted in X Corps thrice,[6] he has good experience of handling affairs in Kashmir.[1][17] But reportedly, he consider religious extremism in Pakistan a bigger threat for Pakistan rather than India.[1]

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby svenkat » 26 Nov 2016 20:16

What's brf gurus take on a 'bajwa' taking over as tspa mafia leader.
I remember our sbajwa ji saying that his grandfather and his (grandpa's )cousin used to discuss over letters for decades happenings in their respective villages including birth of calves. The other bajwa was a muslim who remained in pak

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby yensoy » 26 Nov 2016 20:45

chetak wrote:
habal wrote:Qamar Javed Bajwa's name was proposed to NS by raheel sharif as his successor.

will it also have a hangman's noose ending like it did for bhutto??


Kerry-ji and Lugar-ji will ensure no such happy ending will happen.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby yensoy » 26 Nov 2016 20:45

SBajwa wrote:
Turkey has decided to buy 52 Super Mushshak basic trainer aircraft, costing more than $50 million, over the next three years

So all Indians around the world do not buy products from Turkey!! As I discovered this black friday and did not buy anything from China/Pakistan/Turkey/etc!!!


Be Presidential, forgive that damn Turkey.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby habal » 26 Nov 2016 21:07

quotable quotes from Gen. Bajwa from his training & evaluation days

1. If you count trees, you cannot grow a forest.

2. If everyone is thinking alike, then nobody is thinking.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby habal » 26 Nov 2016 21:11

the ahmadiya/qadiani campaign that was launched in Pakistan recently because of inkling in some quarters that NS was tending towards bajwa.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby manjgu » 26 Nov 2016 21:16

sbajwa is a very devout and pious man. during his tenure at one location , he was reciting quran very loudly..his junior ( also his close frnd) complained about the noise and Bajwa reprimanded his friend ..and the need to recite quran loudly and daily..he is as devout as they get. heard this on a Pak talk show..

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby shiv » 26 Nov 2016 21:18

A man who was not ISI chief taking over?

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby rsingh » 26 Nov 2016 21:30

CRamS wrote:ParrikarJi has his way with words and I get the feeling he deliberately needles and rubs it into TSP's H&D :-)

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... yJyzM.html

Guys, any thoughts on why ModiJi allowed that fart Sartaj Aziz to set foot in India, even though one can argue that he is in here for an international conference? My problem more is that he will be given an opportunity by usual DDM suspects to spew TSP propaganda.


He is not sure about identities of resident Bakis. Demonty has brought many rats out (Abdulla &co).Many more to come out. I feel huriat (or whatever) sly dogs will be complaining about lack of funds......

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby milano » 26 Nov 2016 21:41

habal wrote:bajwa's wikipedia

Since Bajwa has been posted in X Corps thrice,[6] he has good experience of handling affairs in Kashmir.[1][17] But reportedly, he consider religious extremism in Pakistan a bigger threat for Pakistan rather than India.[1]


I seem to remember all the Indian media going ga-ga when the previous COAS, the bad Sharif, started his mandate, and how he viewed extremism as being a worse threat to Pak than India was. There were great hopes back then that Pak military would change its approach. Given this dude's experiences and prior responsibilities and the need for him to make a mark early on, I would hope that our media stop buying into the BS.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Pakistans-new-army-chief-Javed-Bajwa-believes-extremism-is-a-bigger-threat-than-India-Dawn-says/articleshow/55639153.cms

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Falijee » 26 Nov 2016 22:19

(Now) Imran Khan Writes letter to UN Chief- This Is About Kashmir Onlee !

After all, he is a Member Of "The Establishment" that an esteemed "Doctor Sahib" wrote about a couple of weeks ago :D

Pakistan Foreign Office warns India- This Is About "Indus Water Treaty Onlee !


This Is What Happens When You Have A Dud "Nihari Loving PM" ,When Foreign Affairs Portfolio Is Handled By A Senile 80 + (way past his "best before date" :lol: ) and every Aam Abdul, Ali, and Abdi wants to "be in the Foreign Affairs "Kitchen " :lol:

Pakistan briefs UNSC permanent members over LoC violations :D - This is About "LOC Violation Onlee ( Sartaj in action !)

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby svinayak » 26 Nov 2016 23:53

shiv wrote:True or false, Khaled Ahmad claims in his book that Musharraf after 2003 attempted to go easy on Kashmir. I did not notice because 2003 - 2009 was about the worst time for terrorism in India. But apparently attempts on Musharraf's life occurred because he tried to go easy on India. Of course Musharraf is now in worse trouble for other things including Lal Masjid. He is a hero only for Times of India and Amonkey-asses.

Whatever the truth, it is clear that jihadi groups have been kept alive on the promise that enmity with India will never end. For some the Kashmir issue is an end point - for others a takeover of Kashmir is only the beginning of the take-down of India.

It is not just about enmity with India.
The below panel keeps talking about end result. Kashmir will get freedom and due to that then India will also go disintegrate. See at 4.00 Min.
Similar talks are in many shows .
It seems to some western political sociologists have made this plan of attack on Kashmir which will result in internal problems for India.


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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby g.sarkar » 27 Nov 2016 01:23

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 641190.cms
Qamar Javed Bajwa Pakistan's new army chief: Implications for India

Rajat Pandit | TNN | Updated: Nov 26, 2016, 11.11 PM IST
NEW DELHI: Pakistan army's deep-rooted professional hostility towards India will continue despite the change in guard, with General Qamar Javed Bajwa's name being announced+ to succeed General Raheel Sharif as the next chief.
However, whether it will be as visceral as it was under Gen Sharif is something that remains to be seen in the backdrop of three days of relative calm along the Line of Control after the Indian Army pounded over 15 Pakistan army posts on Wednesday to exact revenge for an Indian soldier's beheading and the two DGMOs talked to each other.
.....
Several international South Asia experts echoed similar views. Asked about her opinion on the new Pakistan army chief Gen Bajwa, Georgetown University associate professor C Christine Fair tweeted, "Cut from the same cloth. It won't make a difference."
The assessment in India, too, is that Pakistan army's long-standing "confrontationist attitude" towards India as well as its policy to covertly control the "terror tap" in J&K is not going to change anytime soon.
.....

Gautam

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Prem » 27 Nov 2016 02:16

Will kill three Indian soldiers for every Pakistani soldier killed: Pak Defence Minister

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... r-4395979/
( Paki are getting stick in their Mush)
Assuring severe retribution, Pakistan Defence Minister Khawaja Asif has asserted that they will kill three Indian soldiers for every Pakistani soldier they neutralise. Speaking in the National Assembly on Friday, Asif said that dire consequences would be faced by India if it went to war against Pakistan. Asserting that the situation at the LoC was intentionally being intensified by the Indian government to win people’s support in the upcoming general elections, the Defense Minister alleged that India was behind terrorism in Pakistan and they have credible evidence against it.We have sent dossiers and video films to the UN and other countries showing Indian involvement in terrorism in Pakistan,” Asif said.He also accused India of creating hurdles in the way of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) as they were scared that the project would prove a game changer for Pakistan.Acknowledging that Pakistan might be economically weaker than India, Asif said that India knows that once the CPEC is complete, Islamabad will rise stronger.However, he said that Pakistan would try to maintain a balance of power in the region and would not respond to India in any kind.

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Re: Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Postby Peregrine » 27 Nov 2016 04:40

shiv wrote:True or false, Khaled Ahmad claims in his book that Musharraf after 2003 attempted to go easy on Kashmir. I did not notice because 2003 - 2009 was about the worst time for terrorism in India. But apparently attempts on Musharraf's life occurred because he tried to go easy on India. Of course Musharraf is now in worse trouble for other things including Lal Masjid. He is a hero only for Times of India and Amonkey-asses.

Whatever the truth, it is clear that jihadi groups have been kept alive on the promise that enmity with India will never end. For some the Kashmir issue is an end point - for others a takeover of Kashmir is only the beginning of the take-down of India.

svinayak wrote:It is not just about enmity with India.
The below panel keeps talking about end result. Kashmir will get freedom and due to that then India will also go disintegrate. See at 4.00 Min.
Similar talks are in many shows .
It seems to some western political sociologists have made this plan of attack on Kashmir which will result in internal problems for India.


svinayak Ji :

Au Conraire, svinayak Ji. He actually states to the effect that India will never let go of Kashmir - it will use all its Armed Forces, All its Budget and it will not let Kashmir go out of its hands. If India losses Kashmir then India will suffer loss of face that a country like Pakistan has by force got Kashmir Independence from India. If Kashmir gets Independent than no Force that can stop India from Breaking-Splintering.
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