Understanding the United States of America (USA) - IV

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 30 Nov 2016 21:21

The real question is whether or not we will be able to survive as a deeply divided group of sentient beings before the transformation to a transhuman (simulated) society.

Sounds like scifi, but its a question i have been struggling with especially if we are considering timescales as large as the big bang to now.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 30 Nov 2016 22:36

notions of our economic demise reminds me the old Malthusian predictions of doom based on using the technology that was current at that time,

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 30 Nov 2016 23:40

the US is still going to be top dog through the trump era. but it will become a much more multi-polar world if he is willing to be isolationist. at the end of the trump era we might see something like the romans pulling back from Hadrian's wall to the south coast of brittanica, further wars with the goths and reverses against the Parthians... I hope for the sake of the US that they don't have a schism between rome and constantinople

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 30 Nov 2016 23:49

LokeshC wrote:Pandu saar,

at that super large time scale there is one very simple answer. Transhuman phase. The real energy need for humans is the brain. Once a full formed brain is simulated (including chemical and metabolic functions) we would really need to only consume as much energy as that computer. Which scales very very well.

Once that happens you will see a drop in total energy, while the energy density would go to near black hole levels. A blackhole is the highest density energy storage and computational machine there ever is and will be.

Lokeshji,

You assume that the human body/brain is a machine, and can thus be simulated ( by mathematical 'laws' ).

There is plenty of evidence to show this is not the case at all. I have been doing my own deep research into this fascinating topic. There is something called 'life-stuff' , 'consciousness' or 'soul' which is nonmaterial and has a separate existence. Vedantists, Yogis, Buddhists, etc. reached this conclusion thousands of years ago ( they argue about details ), modern neuroscience is catching up.

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 01 Dec 2016 00:19

csaurabh,

Infact, your argument can be used to make THE case for the existence of transhumanism. i.e. If the soul and consciousness can exist separate from the body then it can as well be made to transition into any type of machine that can support it.

I have had a lot of debate on what consciousness is, and I firmly believe that it can be defined in a precise mathematical way. What that mathematics describes might be probabilistic, but it certainly can be made precise. I have my own toy definition that I have been playing with, but its a big debate and I am a literal nobody in the field.... and its OT in this topic.

Maybe some other thread we can debate this.

For example one of my profs and his team were involved in this (long time back... so not sure about today):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostheti ... icon_Chips

Basically an entire electronic neural system was implanted into a mice brain, and after a few days, the mice brain started using the newly implanted as a part of its own biological brain. Infact, it can then be argued that parts of the mice brain can be shut down once an equvialent parallel electronic system replaces its connection. Do this part by part and soon you have the entire mice brain running on a computer. The mice can then live for ever.

The challenge is that the neural networks electronics maynot simulate the metabolical states accurately in large timescales (talking about 100 years), so you would need more and more precise simulation, otherwise the behavior of the mice may get demented.

Here is another breakthrough that will lead to transhumanism:
http://www.nature.com/news/injectable-b ... ns-1.17713

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 01 Dec 2016 01:01

csaurabh wrote:
LokeshC wrote:Pandu saar,

at that super large time scale there is one very simple answer. Transhuman phase. The real energy need for humans is the brain. Once a full formed brain is simulated (including chemical and metabolic functions) we would really need to only consume as much energy as that computer. Which scales very very well.

Once that happens you will see a drop in total energy, while the energy density would go to near black hole levels. A blackhole is the highest density energy storage and computational machine there ever is and will be.
Lokeshji,

You assume that the human body/brain is a machine, and can thus be simulated ( by mathematical 'laws' ).

There is plenty of evidence to show this is not the case at all. I have been doing my own deep research into this fascinating topic. There is something called 'life-stuff' , 'consciousness' or 'soul' which is nonmaterial and has a separate existence. Vedantists, Yogis, Buddhists, etc. reached this conclusion thousands of years ago ( they argue about details ), modern neuroscience is catching up.

consciousness is even more powerful than that. it determines the universe in our reference frame. iow's, the universe does not assume it's appearance until we observe it. it is only a probability. einstein was not happy with this answer but was unable to refute it,

what is particularly humbling to me is that when einstein debated bohr at the 1927 solvay conference concerning quantum theory, my family were subsistence farmers and share croppers living in backwoods cabins w/o electricity. very humble indeed. they were excellent shots and horsemen, though.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 01 Dec 2016 01:18

Lalmohan wrote: but it will become a much more multi-polar world if he is willing to be isolationist ....

I thought being isolationist will make usa a much stronger country, in case they pull out of japan, middle east and other places, they will stop bleeding money being spent on these stations. With that money they can stock up arms/platforms like more nuke subs, carriers and F-35s plus hypersonics not to forget more money available for R & D in creating nex gen weaponery.

Even joint power of russkies and cheenis will find difficult to counter.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 01 Dec 2016 01:27

Stronger doesn't matter. It is about the will to engage. If they stop engagements, there will be vacuums around eastern-vietnam sea, korean peninsula and border between japan and china.

With that vacuum, lizard might make hay. However, we can also use that vacuum to increase the count of our neighbors at the minimum and may also take care of some longtime unfinished business.

Georgia and Ukraine could be done with. Nato may either cease to exist, or very limited in scope, say EU-BSF.

Africa would benefit a lot in the long run. They may prosper when left to themselves and so would South America.

Goat/Camel herders, it is a different story. We may see small scale 1000 wars in ME.

World will be very busy in short term. But long term would be much better.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Dec 2016 03:20

There is plenty of evidence to show this is not the case at all. I have been doing my own deep research into this fascinating topic. There is something called 'life-stuff' , 'consciousness' or 'soul' which is nonmaterial and has a separate existence. Vedantists, Yogis, Buddhists, etc. reached this conclusion thousands of years ago ( they argue about details ), modern neuroscience is catching up.

However, the clear counter-evidence is that a brain has been detected sometimes between the ears of Pakistanis.

I know, I know, OT. I came here to post the news that the POTUS&VPOTUS tag-teamed to bully United Technologies into keeping 1000 Carrier Corp. jobs in Indiana. Not known what they promised/twisted, but Brarji might shed some light on whether the GE F-136 engine is still alive.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Dec 2016 06:27

OK, Getting off topic.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Dec 2016 07:42

TSJi!
Marines asked to pay for the SNAFUS of the neocons. Freezing on the Norway-Russia border.
If it looks like this in November, what's it going to be like in February I wonder. Trying to imagine poor guys from Alabama and Florida and Georgia and Mississippi suffering through a Norwegian winter. Brrrr!

BO&Co seriously expect to put US forces to face Russians in winter in northern Europe?? They think Russia will invade Norway? Seems like blatant provocation to me.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 01 Dec 2016 08:04

the Marines have held joint exercises in Norway for the past 4 decades.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2016 09:04

Hmm i thought it was us army but perhaps misread it. Makes sense for marines as they have organic means to land inside the fjords

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Dec 2016 09:22

Wow. Rough life!

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 01 Dec 2016 09:22

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-11-n ... tes-2015-7

11 Nations of Americas

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Dec 2016 09:27

TSJones wrote:the Marines have held joint exercises in Norway for the past 4 decades.

This is the farthest north they have been - due to some activities around there.

It is also one of the rare times they have pulled the tanks from deep storage.

Finally, there is a permanent marine contingent out there now.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Dec 2016 09:33

And speaking of firestorms, see this natural one. This happened one day before the entire Southeast got socked by continuous heavy rain for 2 days - after like 3 months of severe drought. My Evil 6th Coujin now has sparkling clean cars after months of bans on outdoor watering, by getting up at 4:30 AM and parking cars out in the rain.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 01 Dec 2016 10:11

UlanBatori wrote:Wow. Rough life!

the Marines have the youngest enlistees and the lowest re-enlistment rate.

80% of the lowest enlistment ranks are white. the higher enlisted ranks have a greater minority percentage that is more in line with the other three services.

there is one Marine officer for every eight enlisted. the other three services have one officer for every four enlisted.

also the Marine officer corps is 93 % white which is whiter than the other three services,

it is hard to convince some college graduates that a hard corps fascist socialist organization in extremely difficult environments is a good career choice. you will spend years away from your family in very strange places.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2016 10:47

i had confused the royal marine commandos for the usa army. they too drill in the artic for a long time in now, usually with norway.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Dec 2016 11:55

Philip wrote:You know like that cult flick "Demolition Man", set in the future starring Rambo-Stallone,Snipes and Sandra B, the only restaurants left in the future are Taco-Bell.So max employment -which is actually happening now,will be at these junk food outlets like Big Mac. The Western world's coffee bars like Starbucks,pizza parlours ,KFCs and burger joints will be the only one's with expanding employment and waists! pardon the pun. Even these may disappear if the latest strategy of China succeeds, promoting Chines eculture worldwide to replace western culture,with Chinese restaurants and take-aways replacing classic western junk food joints,where for authenticity and "colour",all staff will be yellow-faced,slit-eyed,walk like ducks...you get the picture! (Pl ,no racism intended,just stating the obvious)

Americans are going through a transformation.
They are unsure of the future and are trying to figure it out.

This video should give out how the middle white america is trying to decipher the future even with Trump.

Thus lady predicted DT would win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvTt1R1jrW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsuOXWm1Avw

They want to remove the bad publicity due to this election of DT

I live in the US and this 'racism and xenophobia' claim is mostly coming from the media and younger millennials (15-22 yr olds) on social media. In the real, working world everyone just goes about their business. Working hard and going home to their families. It's extremely sad to me that our media is painting America to be this terrible place, when in fact we are a nation (much like Australia) who is one of the most multi-cultural in the world. We have freedom of religion.... Women are treating equally (despite what the media says)... You can truly be YOURSELF in America. I hope someday the truth of the people in our country is reflected.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Dec 2016 11:59

China warns Trump: Good luck bringing jobs back to U.S.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/30/news/ec ... index.html

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Dec 2016 16:45

In all this, it is time to take out my Grand Philosophy. The US has never succeeded in "bring jobs back" for old industries. Technology progresses something like this: Hunger and deprivation ----->>> (snooty foreigners

) radical innovation and TECHNICAL risk-taking based on hard science. (snooty foreigners

) .......>>>>>> risky transition to a business model ......>>>>>> huge wealth creation. Uncontrolled greed and excess. The ppl who worked hard to build the wealth are bissed-upon by the Capitalist Imperialists. (snooty foreigners

, steal and copy and imitate ) .....>>>>> rush to "cut costs" ( v r having Mars brohram aljo, v did it for 15 yuan) .......>>>>>> race to bottom as greed shoots up even further, geese that laid golden eggs all converted to Peking Duck ..... >>>>>> (snooty foreigners

) ......>>>> hunger and deprivation in US...

Repeat cycle.

So jobs will "return". Hugely. But not in the same bijnej. If I could predict exactly where and which companies will "break out" I would buy their stock, if they exist already. But I have no clue.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 01 Dec 2016 19:48

Ub Ji, to your point on the F136, that would not have been a credible threat since it's too late in the day for that and GE has since spent hundreds of millions of its own money, and well over a billion of CRAD on the next generation of engines. Regardless of that UTC does plenty of business with the DOD so you could apply pressure elsewhere but this seems to be a deal between them and the state of Indiana (Pence).

On a different note, Trump met with another current or Ex-Goldman Sachs employee/leader this week. That takes the tally to 3 so far (iirc) including 2 that 2 has already hired.

Trump is meeting with Goldman Sachs President Gary Cohn

https://twitter.com/snowden/status/7037 ... 32?lang=en

On a personal note, I've worked with a company owned by Wilbur Ross and interacted with execs there that have worked with him and are familiar with his leadership style and effectiveness. Lot's of positives about him at least from those coastal elite's.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Dec 2016 20:13

America is not in the pacific because she wants to be nice to little yellow people, she is there to project global power first and dominate the region and in her shadow her friends prosper and feed the empire - this is a classical model

if America retreats from asia (or anywhere else) - another power comes in to fill the vacuum - and thereby threaten her interests

no global power can afford to be isolationist

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 01 Dec 2016 20:16

no global power can afford to be isolationist

And no SOS or SOD nominee he has met so far views that as a course of action. If you were following an isolationist Foreign and National Security policy you would do best to avoid some of the folks he has met or hired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJYbpaJeRZY

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Dec 2016 20:23

This whole thing reminds me of the KKK being represented by a Jewish ACLU lawyer to protect the 1st Amendment. So "diverse"! America at its finest.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 Dec 2016 20:31

USA extends it security umbrella to allies and that buys it influence within these countries.

E.g Australia, which has been under US security umbrella *mostly* vote with the US in UN/etc, hosts US military personal and US defense/spying instillations.

If US were to ditch Australia and China started breathing hard down at the Aussies, the Aussies would align themselves with the Chinese and that would be a blow to the US influence in the region. Same with other allies of US and even non-allies.

Any real or perceived weakness will have consequences not just for the region but also for the US foreign policy.

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 01 Dec 2016 20:42

I am hoping that "Understanding the USA" thread doesn't get side-tracked with a few anti-US communist leaning posters. It's not adding to the "understanding".

Even in China one can see "US Army" t-shirts as fashion statement. One doesn't need reminder that 90% of "stuff" people use is invented / made in the USA.

Soon India may depend on the "evil" US for fighter planes and aircraft carrier know-how and operations to defend itself from Chinese mofos in north and east and brainless paki mofos on the west.

Think of the makke-di roti or goa fish curry and all that in a peaceful village that you guys romanticize about while sitting in KFCs and think which alliance is most needed for India to come out of poverty and backwardness while remaining strong against the evil neighbors. That alliance is with the US.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 01 Dec 2016 20:59

One doesn't need reminder that 90% of "stuff" people use is invented / made in the USA.

Amazing. I didn't know this.

ssundar · Post by **ssundar** » 01 Dec 2016 22:00

Anti-Trump people, including Yindians, are celebrating this - "Proof" that Trump is about to disappoint India.

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 01 Dec 2016 22:38

'Terrific guy, fantastic country': Trump heaps praise on Pakistan's leader

Pakistan’s government has released details of an extraordinary telephone call between the US president-elect and Pakistan’s prime minister Nawaz Sharif

Donald Trump has heaped praise on Pakistan, traditionally a troublesome US ally, saying it is a “fantastic country, fantastic place of fantastic people” according to an official statement released by Islamabad.

The US president-elect made his effusive comments in a phone conversation on Wednesday with Nawaz Sharif, prime minister of the nuclear-armed state, whom Trump hailed as a “terrific guy”.

The statement by the government’s Press Information Department quoted Trump saying: “As I am talking to you prime minister, I feel I am talking to a person I have known for long. Your country is amazing with tremendous opportunities. Pakistanis are one of the most intelligent people.”

Any Indian who looked upon the prospect of a DT presidency as a potential boon for India, is -- I predict -- slated for some serious disappointment.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 01 Dec 2016 22:46

^Many thunk you for the prediction....much obliged.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 01 Dec 2016 22:46

Let’s Retire The Word ‘Liberal’ And Use ‘Alt-Left’ Or #SJW Instead

The best name I can think of is #SJW, the pejorative term meaning ‘social-justice warrior’, essentially one of those urban-guerilla-wannabes skewered so mercilessly by Vivek Agnihotri in Buddha in a Traffic Jam. I have recently seen the term ‘Alt-left’, in analogy with the Alt-right in the US (I saw this first being used by Rupa Subramanya, so in the absence of any other data, I credit her with inventing it too). That is also an acceptable term. Let us use either of these names to refer to these people.

From what I can make out, 'Ált Left' was used on BRF even before Rupa Subramanya started including the term in her tweets...

ssundar · Post by **ssundar** » 01 Dec 2016 22:50

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote: Any Indian who looked upon the prospect of a DT presidency as a potential boon for India, is -- I predict -- slated for some serious disappointment.

This is exactly the article I posted above. Please note that the source of this information is the Press Information Bureau of Pakistan. There is much excitement about this conversation in the liberal media which is hardly a friend of Trump.

Guardian's comment on this press release:

It is unlikely to be a verbatim transcript, with some of the phrasing sounding like the style of a Pakistani notetaker, or possibly prime minister Sharif himself, who is regularly teased for his style of English by the Friday Times, a weekly newspaper.

Sounds to me like the usual Army-Civilian "mine is bigger than yours" competition that happens during power transitions in Pakistan. Sharif needed a boost and that came in the form of the phone call with Trump.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 02 Dec 2016 02:14

ramana wrote:Akhil Reed Amar, Yale Law School is the acknowledged expert on the US Constitution. He says the electoral college was created to ensure states don't get divided along partisan lines. The Congressional delegation votes enmasse as the popular vote in the state. This ensures the state house is not divided.
Remember the famous speech by Lincoln about falling Houses due to divisions.
.

IIRC, the quote is "A house divided against itself cannot stand". Now some bozos (yes that's who I think they are) in CA are doing calexit. They will be kicked on their fat big behinds. This is nothing but elitism and entitlement of the left libby spawn. (Sorry for being very rude but there it is). Last from me on this issue.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Dec 2016 04:22

UBCNews reports that the Pakistan Press Information Pureau report suffered a bit in the transcription. What DT actually said was

“As I am talking to you prime minister, I feel I am talking to a dog I have known for long, who sits and begs on the sidewalk near Trump Towers. Your country is amazing with tremendous TARGETS. ~~Pakistanis are one of the most intelligent people~~ As a Pakistani you have an Intelligence Quotient of about One.”

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 02 Dec 2016 04:39

I am pleased to note that retired Marine General Mattis has been appointed as sec of defense by the Donald.

he was in charge of the attack on Fallujah, Iraq.

his instructions to his officers in their conduct while in Iraq was, and I quote, "Be polite but be thinking how to kill them."

sensible advice I would say.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 02 Dec 2016 04:51

A Wise Choice for Defense Secretary

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 02 Dec 2016 05:10

Any insights on what are sec. Mattis' opinions on pakis?

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 02 Dec 2016 05:49

GShankar wrote:Any insights on what are sec. Mattis' opinions on pakis?

At least on one occasion, he declared that the Pakis were innocent of Osama's presence in Abbotabad.

Combine this with Manafort's proximity to The Donald's circle, and we get a deep state coterie experienced in the game of 'hool' with the Paki mafia.