Currency Demonetisation and Future course of Indian Economy

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 12 Dec 2016 20:59

JayS wrote:
I felt for the counter which handle high volume, we need something as quick as cash "if" we want to replace it with e-cash. Maybe mobile payment with NFC to avoid authentication..?? Or quick card pay without PIN/receipt procedure. We could have a card/wallet with limited transaction value (user defined ideally) so even if its lost it won't cause much harm.

Already enabled for transactions of up to Rs 2000. Contactless cards like Visa Paywave are also available but not yet very common.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 12 Dec 2016 21:00

Bart S wrote:
Paul wrote:http://www.afaqs.com/news/story/39750_M ... o-join-AAP

My CT it is possible that Axis bank is laundering money for AAP.
The lady from HSBC also did the same.

did you mean RBS??

raj-senthil · Post by **raj-senthil** » 12 Dec 2016 21:01

shiv wrote: Rental Rs 9000 per year. That is 750 per month eminently eminently affordable and perfectly reasonable.Apparently there are cheaper ones for rent at Rs 5000 per year - but he did not trust the people who offered those

Shiv,
Below was tweeted by PM few days back..

Public sector banks are advised that merchant should not be required to pay more than Rs. 100 per month as monthly rental for PoS terminals/Micro ATMs/mobile POS from the merchants to bring small merchant on board the digital payment eco system.

My father went to a public bank to avail this offer,but the bank turned him down saying they are yet to get the official notice and hence could not offer him the machine at this rent.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 12 Dec 2016 21:02

Bart S wrote:
JayS wrote:
I felt for the counter which handle high volume, we need something as quick as cash "if" we want to replace it with e-cash. Maybe mobile payment with NFC to avoid authentication..?? Or quick card pay without PIN/receipt procedure. We could have a card/wallet with limited transaction value (user defined ideally) so even if its lost it won't cause much harm.
Already enabled for transactions of up to Rs 2000. Contactless cards like Visa Paywave are also available but not yet very common.

wasn't there something about creating a virtual card from your main credit card with user set limits for net transactions??

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Dec 2016 21:12

chetak wrote:
wasn't there something about creating a virtual card from your main credit card with user set limits for net transactions??

ICICI has a mobile app called "Pockets" which gives you a virtual credit card and a physical one with the same no if you want. Advantage is that if it is misused - the thief can only take out as much as you have loaded in the account - which hovers arond Rs 1000 for me.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 12 Dec 2016 21:13

chetak wrote:
Bart S wrote:
The lady from HSBC also did the same.
did you mean RBS??

Yep that is the one. Meera something. Got confused with so many 'illustrious people' joining the AAP

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 12 Dec 2016 21:13

Paul wrote:http://www.afaqs.com/news/story/39750_M ... o-join-AAP

My CT it is possible that Axis bank is laundering money for AAP. I do not have any proof other than pointing to multiple instances of axis bank branches in Delhi getting pulled up. Maybe it is just a coincidence.

One note point to back up my theory. Every regional party TMC, NCP, commies etc. have their own co op banks to stash their money. So AAP will also need a reliable bank to keep their money.

So the key to bring AAP to heel is to find the bank where they have stashed their money.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 12 Dec 2016 21:15

chetak wrote:
Bart S wrote:
Already enabled for transactions of up to Rs 2000. Contactless cards like Visa Paywave are also available but not yet very common.
wasn't there something about creating a virtual card from your main credit card with user set limits for net transactions??

Yes, you can create a virtual credit card with most banks like ICICI, or pockets like Shiv saar mentioned. Also, you can simply set your debit card or credit card transaction limits to a lower amount, with most banks.

But I believe JayS was asking about speeding up the transaction process itself, i.e avoiding swiping+pin etc, and for that contactless cards work great. You could in theory do that with mobile payment apps as well, in fact that's how Apple Pay and Samsung Pay work. Also, ICICI Pockets has a contactless feature for NFC enabled phones that let you use regular cards against it to make payments. Only accepted at a few merchants though.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 12 Dec 2016 21:22

Bart S wrote:
chetak wrote:
did you mean RBS??
Yep that is the one. Meera something. Got confused with so many 'illustrious people' joining the AAP

meera sanyal, one of the bigger aapi crooks. very entitlement conscious, freeloader par excellence and she expected aap to send her to parliament sans any effort from her side.

Uttam · Post by **Uttam** » 12 Dec 2016 21:29

Is there any news or data on the current Blackmoney disclosure scheme? I haven't seen any news. They may be waiting until the close of the quarter to announce the numbers.

RajeshG · Post by **RajeshG** » 12 Dec 2016 21:58

Suraj wrote: So tell us why Mulayam was begging Modi to defer this move until after UP elections, then. If he's already sitting pretty, why'd he open his mouth ?

He has to just for show. From the way Narendra (?) Aggarwal speaks in the house they arent really 'opposed'. Amar Singh who is now buddy-buddy again with Netaji is actually pro-demo or so he has said. The only person who I see is *reaaally* opposed is Didi. The rest are just posturing according to their political calculations/constituencies.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... h-4396143/

But anyway, I think Chandragupta's point was different.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 12 Dec 2016 22:00

Shaktimaan wrote:Today I asked an Amul milk retailer why he doesn't accept cards or PayTm etc. He said their margins are so thin (1 rupee per liter) that they cannot afford the 1 or 2 percent transaction fees. Can any learned gurus shed light on what the margins for milk retailers is?

It is around 1 - 1.50 Rs / litre for `pouch' milk, which is mostly sold by State co-ops. Sellers make money on volume and sadly the low margin is also
an incentive to adulterate milk or not chill it properly (chilling cost eats into margin). The total cost of accepting cards ( data cost, machine and
commission) make it unviable for milk sales.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 12 Dec 2016 22:09

Paul wrote:
Paul wrote:http://www.afaqs.com/news/story/39750_M ... o-join-AAP

My CT it is possible that Axis bank is laundering money for AAP. I do not have any proof other than pointing to multiple instances of axis bank branches in Delhi getting pulled up. Maybe it is just a coincidence.

One note point to back up my theory. Every regional party TMC, NCP, commies etc. have their own co op banks to stash their money. So AAP will also need a reliable bank to keep their money.
So the key to bring AAP to heel is to find the bank where they have stashed their money.

I happen to know Manisha Lath-Gupta, we worked in the same company. She joined AAP, as a volunteer, before GE 2014,
when the Kejriwal mania was at its peak. I understand she left subsequently and also moved out of banking. That said, I'd like to see the strongest
possible action taken against Axis and whichever other bank managers have colluded to launder money.
Meera Sanyal (ex CEO of RBS) is a more hardcore AAP supporter who stood for election from South Mumbai in 2014. I heard her in a panel discussion, where she seemed to abandon banking logic for the voodoo economics of Kejriwal, when arguing against DM.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 12 Dec 2016 22:11

^^^ there is a video of amar Singh with an arms dealer giving full maa ki gaali to modi outside a hotel lobby after modis speech ended on Nov 8. About an hr after the announcement on nob 8 evening. The arms dealer was the one cursing modi, not amar Singh.....

Watch that to get a correct perspective on amar Singh.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Dec 2016 22:16

Went and got me an Airtel 4G second SIM for data because my BSNL 3G was basically preventing me from even calling Uber even if I was standing under a Cell telephony tower getting my brain and rosogollas frazzled. Don't ask me "Why Airtel"? Could have gone for reliance Jio - but I did not

Woman for business, boy for pleasure, goat for choice
BSNL for business, JIO for pleasure, Airtel for choice

...like that..

RajeshG · Post by **RajeshG** » 12 Dec 2016 22:41

Paul wrote: Watch that to get a correct perspective on amar Singh.

Sir if admins allow and if you have thr link available i would like to see. Thanks

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 12 Dec 2016 22:42

Paul wrote:
Paul wrote:http://www.afaqs.com/news/story/39750_M ... o-join-AAP

My CT it is possible that Axis bank is laundering money for AAP. I do not have any proof other than pointing to multiple instances of axis bank branches in Delhi getting pulled up. Maybe it is just a coincidence.

One note point to back up my theory. Every regional party TMC, NCP, commies etc. have their own co op banks to stash their money. So AAP will also need a reliable bank to keep their money.

So the key to bring AAP to heel is to find the bank where they have stashed their money.

Looks like there is as something to what I said. Needs more corroboration though.

http://newsloose.com/2016/12/12/is-delh ... -kejriwal/

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 12 Dec 2016 22:51

RajeshG wrote:
Suraj wrote: So tell us why Mulayam was begging Modi to defer this move until after UP elections, then. If he's already sitting pretty, why'd he open his mouth ?
He has to just for show. From the way Narendra (?) Aggarwal speaks in the house they arent really 'opposed'. Amar Singh who is now buddy-buddy again with Netaji is actually pro-demo or so he has said. The only person who I see is *reaaally* opposed is Didi. The rest are just posturing according to their political calculations/constituencies.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... h-4396143/

But anyway, I think Chandragupta's point was different.

He makes the same mistake a lot of others do - mistaking getting money into the bank for success . That's not success . That just means you handed over all the cards to GoI . Success is getting g every last paisa out, and not leaving behind a trace .

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 12 Dec 2016 22:52

I pay our milkman through monthly bank transfer. Not a single issue for nearly two years except the chap claiming once that I paid him twice one month and giving us extra coupons. He banks with a very large private municipal-type-name bank other than the four big names. Says the entire branch is involved in providing cash to the consortium of builders... His brother supplies jalli and has priority service at the same branch. Expect more of the crooks to be caught while honest bank employees slog hard to help the average citizen whichever way they can.

ashkrishna · Post by **ashkrishna** » 12 Dec 2016 22:55

Demonitization has ensured that bjp will lose all elections from 2017 to 2019. It is an unmitigated and unparalleled disaster. This is the end of the Modi era.

SSharma · Post by **SSharma** » 12 Dec 2016 22:57

ashkrishna wrote:Demonitization has ensured that bjp will lose all elections from 2017 to 2019. It is an unmitigated and unparalleled disaster. This is the end of the Modi era.

the rich and upper middle class may not vote for bjp, but what about the majority of the country that is poor?

in most elections the rich dont vote anyway

ashkrishna · Post by **ashkrishna** » 12 Dec 2016 23:01

Deleted

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 12 Dec 2016 23:03

ashkrishna: please delete your posts from here and post in the politics thread .

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Dec 2016 23:53

wooops so does the forum think the axis guys are toast? just parked a large sum in their tax saving mutual fund for the tax break under 80c. better to withdraw or remain as is?

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 12 Dec 2016 23:59

Paul wrote:^^^ there is a video of amar Singh with an arms dealer giving full maa ki gaali to modi outside a hotel lobby after modis speech ended on Nov 8. About an hr after the announcement on nob 8 evening. The arms dealer was the one cursing modi, not amar Singh.....

Watch that to get a correct perspective on amar Singh.

He is an arms dealer connected with some scam, I forgot which one.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Dec 2016 00:36

Marten wrote:I pay our milkman through monthly bank transfer. Not a single issue for nearly two years except the chap claiming once that I paid him twice one month and giving us extra coupons. He banks with a very large private municipal-type-name bank other than the four big names. Says the entire branch is involved in providing cash to the consortium of builders... His brother supplies jalli and has priority service at the same branch. Expect more of the crooks to be caught while honest bank employees slog hard to help the average citizen whichever way they can.

May God create more Martens and his Milkmen.

People have this strong devotion for cash based economy, because they can save that much from not paying taxes. Pure and simple logic, people hate to pay taxes, be it income or sales. [#politics : sharia/secular influence]

I tweeted these:

#Demonetization
1/n 1.3 billion people must have a bank account or Jan Dhan Account with mandatory DEBIT CARD issued while opening the acct

#Demonetization 2/n
All high valued cash transactions banned! Gold, Real Estates, Appiances, what not. Max Rs 2000 per day on cash.

#Demonetization 3/n
1.3 billion people must pay taxes - income, GST, direct deposits for salaires mandatory to bank/jan dhan accounts.

#Demonetization 4/n
Plastic notes with nanotech/RFIDs available with expiration data of 5 years for <100s and 2 years for >100s notes

#Demonetization 5/n
All vendors and sellers get free RuPay/Cr card readers. The tax from GST here is 1.5% of GDP. Only 3% of 1.27b pay taxes

https://twitter.com/saikanomie/status/8 ... 2405397505

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 13 Dec 2016 01:02

Deleted

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Dec 2016 01:05

Karan ji, move it out to HDFC

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 13 Dec 2016 01:13

Deepak Singh ‏@smarket 2h2 hours ago
Son of a High Court Judge and a son of Income Tax Commissioner start a Law firm called T&T~ story of Rohit Tandon..man caught with 14 crores

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 13 Dec 2016 01:24

Shiv, Is this the guy you were talking of before?

http://english.nyusu.in/raids-adikesavu ... 0-cr-cash/

Adikesavulu used to be an MLA of Chittoor constituency of Andhra Pradesh when he was the member of the Telugu Desam Party. He was also the chairman of Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams and was a member of the Indian National Congress.

Naidu, who passed away in 2014, had a special business interest in Karnataka’s properties, breweries and distilleries in addition to Mallya Hospital and Vydehi institute of Medical Sciences. He had launched a fruit-crushing unit near Bangarupalyam in Chittoor district.

Are those hundreds along with the 2000s? How did they get hold of so many 100s? One thing that is consistent across all these huge cash hoards that are getting caught is lack of 500s and 1000s. In this case, this one particular company had no problem in exchanging 50 crores. Of course they got caught. Will everybody else get caught too? Can you imagine the plight of these buggers who must have paid good commission for the exchange and then losing what else is remaining of it. I am looking forward to see the donation rate for a MBBS seat this year.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 13 Dec 2016 01:24

RajeshG wrote:
Suraj wrote: So tell us why Mulayam was begging Modi to defer this move until after UP elections, then. If he's already sitting pretty, why'd he open his mouth ?
He has to just for show. From the way Narendra (?) Aggarwal speaks in the house they arent really 'opposed'....

Its Naresh Aggarwal.

You are joking right?

He was so upset and seething that he even pointed towards BJP benches and said "...these sarkari dalals..." , he also cited his personal family thing to urge the govt. in taking this back, citing how his own wife has been keeping money from him without telling and has only now told him...

mehroke · Post by **mehroke** » 13 Dec 2016 01:30

Dear All.
I am going to India for a holiday with my family. I will be carrying some INR left over from previous trips. How do I deal with this cash?
I will land on Christmas day. that still leaves me approx a week before the DEC30 deadline.

Any advice is welcome.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Dec 2016 01:42

convert it at the port of entry or go to a bank or put it in your NRO account. NRIs have 6 months? hopefully they can get this exchanged at local airports/thomas cooks in firang land wherever one is

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 13 Dec 2016 03:31

Mehroke ji, you can deposit it in your NRE/O account. Lines for deposit are non-existent. No reason to worry.

KaranM, the bank will not fail because of a few employees or Harshadbhai would have had a few shut down in the 90s. The reason so many are caught is conscientious insiders.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Dec 2016 04:07

FYI Karan re Axis bank. No worry as of now
https://twitter.com/IndianExpress/statu ... 5342149632

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 13 Dec 2016 04:10

SaiK wrote:Karan ji, move it out to HDFC

Dammit. I've got a huge amount of equities in demat account with them. Moved demat from HDFC as sevive was terrible. And equites broker company that we use have account with them. But what fraud can they do with demat. The companies share register will also have records so it should be fine. Don't worry Karan. Should be okay.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 13 Dec 2016 04:15

Government to amend RBI Act to annul old Rs 500/1000 currency notes

The government is likely to amend the Reserve Bank of India Act to extinguish the validity of Rs 500 and Rs 1000 printed before November 9 and a reference to this effect would be made in the upcoming Budget. As part of the demonetisation process, there would be a law to make Rs 500/1000 notes invalid and it can be made effective from March 31, sources said.

“In 1978, when the currency was banned, the law to annul the validity came ahead. This time the government acted under 26 (2),” sources said.

As per RBI Act Section 26 (2), the central government, on the recommendation of the Central Board of RBI, may by notification in the Gazette of India, declare that, with effect from such date as may be specified in the notification, any series of bank notes of any denomination shall cease to be legal tender.

Despite the article title, there's no new IDS scheme as such. That's been mentioned is that voluntary disclosure will lead to lesser penalty than involuntary discovery. This is already formalized by the IT Act Amendment of 2016:
Demonetisation: Government to notify scheme for taxing black money holders this week

Government is likely to notify this week the scheme giving tax dodgers another chance to come clean by paying 50 per cent of tax on junked currency deposited in banks post demonetisation. The Pradhan Mantri Garib Kalyan Yojana (PMGKY) provides for 50 per cent taxes and surcharge on declarations of unaccounted cash deposited in banks. Declarants also have to park a quarter of the total sum in a non-interest bearing deposit for four years.

The Department of Revenue will by the end of the week notify PMGKY 2016, which was a part of ‘The Taxation Laws (Second Amendment) Bill, 2016’ and was approved by the Lok Sabha on November 29.

“The notification will provide details as to how declarations are to be made (format) and the manner of paying taxes, whether in instalments or in full. It will also provide an end date to the PMGKY scheme,” an official said.

‘The Taxation Laws (Second Amendment) Bill, 2016’ was introduced in the Lok Sabha as a Money Bill which necessarily does not require assent of the Upper House of Parliament.

Before DeMo, 24% of PMJDY accounts had zero balance. After a month of DeMo, 22.9% of PMJDY accounts have 0 balance. Only 1% of the previously existing zero balances have therefore been used for laundering. Also, as mentioned, the PMJDY account maximum is Rs.50K and therefore far more people are needed than the 2.5L taxation limit. The IT investigation work is a lot easier since the incremental misuse is much lower than presumed.
23 per cent Jan Dhan accounts still without balance; deposit surge abates

Despite a huge surge in total deposits in Jan Dhan accounts following demonetisation, about one-fifth of these still continue to have no balance. Net addition in the 25.8 crore Jan Dhan accounts was just Rs 288 crore during the week ended December 7, taking total deposits to about Rs 74,610 crore.

The percentage of zero balance account however remained flat at about 22.9 per cent despite the addition of Rs 29,000 crore in total deposits in about 30 days after demonetisation of high value notes took effect on November 9.

After the initial surge, total deposits in Jan Dhan accounts have seen a decline week after week. As much as Rs 1,487 crore was parked in these accounts during 7 days ended November 30, as against Rs 8,283 crore in the previous week.

The accretion was Rs 18,615.54 crore a week after demonetisation which moderated to less than half to Rs 8,582.57 crore during the 7-day period November 17-23. Deposits in the 25.8 crore such accounts totalled Rs 74,609.50 crore at the end of December 7, as per the Finance Ministry data. The upper limit for deposits in Jan Dhan account is Rs 50,000. The overall amount was Rs 72,834.72 crore in 25.68 crore accounts at the end of November 23.

S Gurumurthy: Think twice before hoarding Rs.2000 notes, they may be demonetized

Here is a bad news for people thinking of hoarding the new Rs 2000 currency notes. At a time when the opposition is attacking the government for introducing the Rs 2000 currency notes after demonetisation, a view has emerged that the new high denomination note may not have a long life.

In an exclusive interview to India Today news channel, RSS ideologue, journalist and chartered accountant S Gurumurthy said the new Rs 2000 notes will be phased out of the system in the next five years.

This statement is significant as Gurumurthy is a seasoned face and the government consults him on several issues. Moreover, the Opposition leaders like Arvind Kejriwal have wondered as to how introducing Rs 2000 notes would end corruption or black money.

Sharing his view on the issue, Gurumurthy said that Rs 2000 is “only a bridge” as the government had to bring it in place of the old Rs 1000 notes for the time being. The Rs 2000 notes will be phased out in the next 4-5 years.

After large scale wrongdoing emerges, GoI cracks down against banks

With seizure of large amounts of unexplained old and new high-value currency notes by investigative agencies post demonetisation, the finance ministry on Sunday directed all public sector banks to maintain complete records of deposits by customers in old notes as well as new ones.

“The department of financial services (DFS) has asked all the PSBs and the Indian Banks’ Association (IBA) to ensure 100% that deposits of new currency is properly reflected in the customers’ counterfoils,” the finance ministry said in a statement.

In a letter addressed to all the MDs, CEOs, CMDs of PSBs and the IBA chairman, the DFS has said maintenance of records regarding deposits was essential both in the banks’ as well as customers’ records.

In the past few weeks, the I-T department, police and enforcement directorate have seized several hundred crore rupees in cash (old and new) and gold, which could not be explained by their owners and assumed to be black money. Scores of bank officers, involved in irregularities in deposits and withdrawals of notes, have recently been suspended.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 13 Dec 2016 04:16

Akshay Kapoor wrote:
SaiK wrote:Karan ji, move it out to HDFC

Dammit. I've got a huge amount of equities in demat account with them. Moved demat from HDFC as sevive was terrible. And equites broker company that we use have account with them. But what fraud can they do with demat. The companies share register will also have records so it should be fine. Don't worry Karan. Should be okay. You are the owner of the money in the MF and even if they go bankrupt that money should be ring fenced and segregated. I'm reasonably sure. Suraj any comments ?

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 13 Dec 2016 04:17

prashanth wrote: But the sloppy telecom services provided by telcos have failed us. How difficult is it to ensure basic and uninterrupted GPRS service? What is GOI doing about this?

Apparently it is not so easy to provide 100% coverage.

The two hospitals I work out of, one has no service for Verizon and the other has none for AT&T, I make sure to call my office every few minutes from the land lines to make sure I am not missing any crucial messages.

The town center in my neighborhood 'village' has absolutely no service for my carrier. Many of the homes of my friends and relatives I visit have poor to no service for AT&T (the major carrier in our part of the country) and I know when I am there I will not receive any calls. I then let my answering service know to call me on their land line for anything.

This is the state in NY Metro, supposedly in a country where such things should not happen, but they do.

My limited experience while visiting Desh has shown me that India has surprisingly good cellular coverage in comparison to at least the US.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 13 Dec 2016 04:28

Something just struck me. Even if mulayam can put lots of cash in the bank (and can take it out too ) he will end up showing thousands of people how much money he has. Surely some will ask in their minds - where did he get that. And more importantly that might lead to - some of it is stolen from my family and me. They may not be able to do anything about it now but surely he will loose some votes ? I think people are missing this point. I would certainly think like this - why should my vote help him to live a more Alishan life ?