India-US relations: News and Discussions III

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Yagnasri
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Yagnasri » 17 Dec 2016 21:56

Let us face it. Since Obomber came to power, Dems lost Congress, Senate, Many state legislatures, Governorships and now the WH. There is no major gain to them since 2008. Obomber failed to inspire his voters to vote for HC against DT who as per all pundits shall never have a chance to win. If anyone thinks that some letter from FBI or something like that is going to chance the US voters; they are mistaken. We may not like DT, but it will be too simplistic to say that he won because of White men voted for him this time. The same white men voted for Obomber in 2008 and 2012.

HC had no message, ran as an establishment candidate in an anti-establish period, perceived as corrupt and dishonest, hated by core GOP voters who got motivated to come and vote against her. Are we ignoring all that?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby CRamS » 17 Dec 2016 22:00

TSJones wrote:
not Comey, not Russians, SHE LOST IT. ALL ON HER OWN.

addendum:

If somebody wants to be a liberal democratic president of the US, you must love PEOPLE. all of them. you MUST CONVINCE them that their problems are your problems to solve.



Yes, convince rabid white racists that because a few people of color in the halls of DC led by Obama are in power, we must "make America great gain". Give me a break. Enough of election discussion. A white Christian nationalist thug is in power, thx to his racist campaign and his millions of zombie followers in rust belts and elsewhere who were enamored by that. In fact, he only took the republican plank that was always racist, albeit not so overtly, and made it in your face and mainstream.

Having said that, I don't think anything dramatic will take place under his reign, be it Trump or Obama, US institutions including deep state are mighty strong, and they are the ones who take key decisions. And in any case, closer to home, its very clear India TSP equal equal will be the policy continuity that will prevail.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby TSJones » 17 Dec 2016 22:02

I willing to bet that in the next election, rural and rust belt states are going to get an extra dose of love and attention from the next democratic presidential candidate.

or else they will suffer another electoral college defeat.
Last edited by TSJones on 17 Dec 2016 22:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby chetak » 17 Dec 2016 22:03

TSJones wrote:Comey didn't tell Billary to rely on minorities and women to get elected or to ignore working class white males in rust belt states. She is a lousy politician who mistakenly relied on idenity and gender politics. therefore she lost. all she had to do was to tell working class males, convincingly, that their problems were important to her and occupied her thoughts every day. she needed to visit factories, mines, construction sites and state unemployment offices and start hugging and serving coffee and sandwiches.

but she couldn't do it, because she didn't really feel that way.

and she lost the election because of it.

not Comey, not Russians, SHE LOST IT. ALL ON HER OWN.

addendum:

If somebody wants to be a liberal democratic president of the US, you must love PEOPLE. all of them. you MUST CONVINCE them that their problems are your problems to solve.


she didn't / couldn't identify with the working classes, who saw her as elitist, what with her swanning around with saudi royals and such like foreign moneyed monkeys.

Trump and his team picked up on such errors and ran with them.

looks almost like she was sabotaged purposely / advised wrongly and she herself was not street smart enough to correct such glaring errors in her own campaign.

who kept bill out of the campaign team??

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Austin » 17 Dec 2016 22:13

Dipanker wrote:Before Comey's October's surprise Hillary was comfortably ahead in polls


Trey Gowdy chair Benghazi and found about HRC Private Email server

Trey Gowdy: Timing Direct, Natural Consequence Of Hillary Clinton's Actions




Rep. Trey Gowdy: FBI Director Comey did the right thing


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Austin » 17 Dec 2016 22:38

FBI Comey Grilling is Nice to Watch


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Dipanker » 18 Dec 2016 04:20

TSJones wrote:Comey didn't tell Billary to rely on minorities and women to get elected or to ignore working class white males in rust belt states. She is a lousy politician who mistakenly relied on idenity and gender politics. therefore she lost. all she had to do was to tell working class males, convincingly, that their problems were important to her and occupied her thoughts every day. she needed to visit factories, mines, construction sites and state unemployment offices and start hugging and serving coffee and sandwiches.

but she couldn't do it, because she didn't really feel that way.

and she lost the election because of it.

not Comey, not Russians, SHE LOST IT. ALL ON HER OWN.

addendum:

If somebody wants to be a liberal democratic president of the US, you must love PEOPLE. all of them. you MUST CONVINCE them that their problems are your problems to solve.


I almost completely agree with your post, almost because even if Comey effect was able to sway only a tiny minuscule of 0.05% voters in the end that was enough for a win/loss.

Sticking with Obama's coalition of voters, was her campaign mgr. Roby Mook's idea as the coalition had worked in the past two elections.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Dec 2016 06:09

In the end, I see no way to avoid the clear feeling that Ms. Clinton was unfairly exempted from the laws that she swore to uphold. Hundreds, maybe thousands, of brave, patriotic military personnel, other government personnel and ordinary civilians have been tossed into the federal dungeons, or at least had their free lives ruined by long-drawn-out federal investigations and prosecutions for far less.

Clinton was not charged because Obama was President. Period. At least Pakirobin Rafael was arrested, which is the minimum that Clinton should have experienced. Comey's words were that "reasonable" prosecutors (meaning those what still wanted to earn a living) would not proceed with filing charges. Just as no "reasonable" US General has refused orders to bomb the Syrian forces defending their nation against Islamic Sunni terror. A very sad day in the annals of US law.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Cosmo_R » 18 Dec 2016 06:34

TSJones wrote:Comey didn't tell Billary to rely on minorities and women to get elected or to ignore working class white males in rust belt states. She is a lousy politician who mistakenly relied on idenity and gender politics. therefore she lost. all she had to do was to tell working class males, convincingly, that their problems were important to her and occupied her thoughts every day. she needed to visit factories, mines, construction sites and state unemployment offices and start hugging and serving coffee and sandwiches.

but she couldn't do it, because she didn't really feel that way.

and she lost the election because of it.

not Comey, not Russians, SHE LOST IT. ALL ON HER OWN.

addendum:

If somebody wants to be a liberal democratic president of the US, you must love PEOPLE. all of them. you MUST CONVINCE them that their problems are your problems to solve.


Agreed. Going to WV and telling coal miners " we're going to put you out of a job" reflects the tin ear of a liberal elitist who seemed to put gender/bathrooms over the life and death issues of the working class. It was a Marie-Antoinette moment.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Dipanker » 18 Dec 2016 07:43

UlanBatori wrote:. At least Pakirobin Rafael was arrested, which is the minimum that Clinton should have experienced.



Your premise itself is incorrect, Robin Raphel was never arrested and she was suspected of far more serious crime of espionage. So Hillary, a SoS, should have been at least arrested for using a personal email server instead of the official server to me is misplaced.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Austin » 18 Dec 2016 12:09

Image
What Do Trump Voters Want?

Brad DeLong has an interesting meditation on markets and political demands — inspired by a note from Noah Smith — that offers food for thought. I wonder, however, if Brad’s discussion is too abstract; and I also wonder whether it fully recognizes the disconnect between what Trump voters think they want and reality. So, an entry of my own.

What Brad is getting at is the widespread belief by, well, almost everyone that they are entitled to — have earned — whatever good hand they have been dealt by the market economy. This is reflected in the more or less universal belief of the affluent that they deserve what they have; you could see this in the rage of rentiers at low interest rates, because it’s the Fed’s job to reward savers, right? In this terrible political year, the story was in part one of people in Appalachia angrily demanding a return of the good jobs they used to have mining coal — even though the world doesn’t want more coal given fracking, and it can get the coal it still wants from strip mines and mountaintop removal, which don’t employ many people.

And what Brad is saying, I think, is that what those longing for the return to coal want is those jobs they deserve, where they earn their money — not government handouts, no sir.

A fact-constrained candidate wouldn’t have been able to promise such people what they want; Trump, of course, had no problem.

But is that really all there is? Working-class Trump voters do, in fact, receive a lot of government handouts — they’re almost totally dependent on Social Security for retirement, Medicare for health care when old, are quite dependent on food stamps, and many have recently received coverage from Obamacare. Quite a few receive disability payments too. They don’t want those benefits to go away. But they managed to convince themselves (with a lot of help from Fox News etc) that they aren’t really beneficiaries of government programs, or that they’re not getting the “good welfare”, which only goes to Those People.

And you can really see this in the regional patterns. California is an affluent state, a heavy net contributor to the federal budget; it went 2-1 Clinton. West Virginia is poor and a huge net recipient of federal aid; it went 2 1/2-1 Trump.

I don’t think any kind of economic analysis can explain this. It has to be about culture and, as always, race.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Yagnasri » 18 Dec 2016 12:52

So simply DT has won because he is a racist and all of his kind voted him for that. The idea that the "working class" wants only welfare aid is another look down view of the media elite. The left in US is never going to learn which is good. It will result in more financial ruin of the US whenever they have control of white house.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Hitesh » 18 Dec 2016 14:48

Yagnasri wrote:So simply DT has won because he is a racist and all of his kind voted him for that. The idea that the "working class" wants only welfare aid is another look down view of the media elite. The left in US is never going to learn which is good. It will result in more financial ruin of the US whenever they have control of white house.


I firmly believed that he played the race card and exploited the white mans fear of being overshadowed by the minorities.

You have not heard many stories of white blue collar people who voted for trump only later to find out that trump will cut their "welfare" support and lamented about the fact.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Hitesh » 18 Dec 2016 14:53

Yagnasri wrote:Let us face it. Since Obomber came to power, Dems lost Congress, Senate, Many state legislatures, Governorships and now the WH. There is no major gain to them since 2008. Obomber failed to inspire his voters to vote for HC against DT who as per all pundits shall never have a chance to win. If anyone thinks that some letter from FBI or something like that is going to chance the US voters; they are mistaken. We may not like DT, but it will be too simplistic to say that he won because of White men voted for him this time. The same white men voted for Obomber in 2008 and 2012.

HC had no message, ran as an establishment candidate in an anti-establish period, perceived as corrupt and dishonest, hated by core GOP voters who got motivated to come and vote against her. Are we ignoring all that?


Are you ignoring the fact that she won the popular vote and that the republicans have managed to keep their majority only through the shenigans of gerrymandering and in the case of North Carolina they managed to keep the powers of governorship from the newly elected democratic governor through a very blatant and unethical usurpation of power?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Rishi Verma » 18 Dec 2016 14:57

^^ Kind request to halt this mindless back and forth on Trump-Hillary election discussion. This is off topic for US-India Relations thread.

This behavior is no different than your fellow Indians spitting paan under a "no spitting" sign. Ignorant to death!!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby CRamS » 18 Dec 2016 22:34

^^^ ++1000.

Us SDREs seem more passionate about the US election, I even saw a program on DDM where some reporters were going berserk. Americans on the other hand seemed to have moved on.

I am wsaiting for Trump's fiorst official move towards India Pak. Would be interesting to watch. Note TSP has cooled down the temperature both along LoC and AfPak. Some short-term tactical pause to get Trump's attention looks like while Fatemi whatever was knocking on his door for a chat.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby darshan » 18 Dec 2016 22:55

"It is a case of kettle being hotter than the tea" as far as this election discussion is going.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Najunamar » 19 Dec 2016 01:48

+1008 to TSJ'S conclusion .HRC and BHO have no one to blame but themselves. BHO because he went all in knowing it could backfire on his own legacy. HRC could have embraced the working class by doing a few good photo ops to counter Trump's campaign which was very focused on the blue collar workers.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby krisna » 19 Dec 2016 05:53

some facts cant be denied whatever hairsplitting one does between 2 sides. call them deplorables crooked etc etc


over 50% of the current generation will earn less than their parents. ex- person from 1940-50 and 1960-70s over 90% children earned well equal or better than their parents. now say ex from 1980-90 onwards less than 50% earn equal or better than their parents. this cannot be argued as it is in economic data.


No doubt GDP of usa has increased over time but the last 30-40 years has seen lopsided income generation. More money into a few class of people.
ex- 95% of salaries of any company goes to top 5% of the folks. Rest 95% gets 5% of money. The inequality is widening yearly.
(Please don't talk about men women equality. That is altogether different breed now.)

The main affected people are the heart of usa (so called rust belt)and not the coastal areas of usa .

Most of the opportunities are in areas aka democratic strong holds. no need to guess it. :twisted: :evil:


American dream is shattered for 1000s of ordinary americans.

the establishment since the time of kissisnger infamous china tilt to wean away it from ussr in cold war has wreaked havoc on ordinary lives.


--------------------------------------
Have said it in the past and also now for any country with large population - either agriculture or industrial base can hold employment for large number of people esp unskilled or semi skilled people. This is enough for food shelter clothing for majority. But lopsided policies followed by kissinger and his proteges down the line put paid to these hopes.

America does not have huge agriculture workers(also coming under strain), lost out industrial base to china.

No doubt some of its policies attracted huge talents all over the world but these are very skilled and talented people .

This created huge opportunities in areas aka democratic strong hold. Hence these areas grew and now hold upto 75% of American population in less than 25-30% of land mass.


No wonder deplorables supporters rightly say they won elections all over the America.
No wonder crooked supporters rightly say she won majority of votes.


Both are right in their own areas. But overall America is shafted right in the middle.

trumpanzee should get back industries back to usa come what may. He will go down as one of the best presidents of usa.
Bottom line is economy with jobs sufficient to look after basic issues.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby krisna » 19 Dec 2016 05:58

^^^^BTW have argued with many in massa land even before elections which one of the deplorables won, crooked supporters were all over me ......teaching me about trump sexcapades etc etc :(( :(( :rotfl:

Now many are in sulking mode asking did I guess it. I juts informed them looking at facts -something was fishy with crooked data on media. did not believe the media spin. so gave some bonus points to trump on top of what they gave it in media. :mrgreen:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Dec 2016 07:45

Have u ever tried telling Pakistanis to forget about 1971 and Get a Life, move on? Just curious.. 8)
Speaking of US-India relations, the Indian newspapers report The Fed's Rate-Raising as if India is already a colony: 61st State, except no Statehood yet, like Puerto Pooro or Guam. And dollar is up relative to rupee again. At least when e-con-omy is full unglic, Comrade Putin can control it and provide some balance

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby ramana » 19 Dec 2016 08:30

krishna, ditto every weekend since the elections. Desis are crying in tea cups. Now getting virulent just before the Electoral college vote. Folks making $1M from medical practice.
I told them market has gone up and their 401Ks have recovered. And the stock run could last longer at least 18 months till his budget kicks in. Meantime benefit from lower taxes and if he is that bad suck it up for four years and move to heartland and vote there!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Dipanker » 19 Dec 2016 10:37

No need to move to heartland, Texas should turn into blue state by next presidential election, current hispanic population of Texas is ~40% and non-hispanic white population is ~43% and non white population is increasing at a faster rate than whites. When that happens it will be become virtually impossible for Republicans to win a presidential election. The country is headed to a single party rule as far as presidential elections are concerned.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby darshhan » 19 Dec 2016 10:41

Dipanker wrote:No need to move to heartland, Texas should turn into blue state by next presidential election, current hispanic population of Texas is ~40% and non-hispanic white population is ~43% and non white population is increasing at a faster rate than whites. When that happens it will be become virtually impossible for Republicans to win a presidential election. The country is headed to a single party rule as far as presidential elections are concerned.


Or so it seems. Dipanker ji, You are falling into linear projection trap.

My own prediction. US is headed for some sort of Civil war or atleast prolonged civil strife phase.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Austin » 19 Dec 2016 10:46

Viv S wrote:Shale unlike conventional oil is dominated not the majors but by nimble small/medium sized operators. Its the epitome of what Schumpeter described as 'creative destruction'. Bankruptcies are par for the course, they don't portend to some industry wide collapse.


U.S. SHALE GAS INDUSTRY: Countdown To Disaster

The U.S. shale oil and gas industry hasn’t made any real money since 2009.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Neshant » 19 Dec 2016 11:14

^^^ One wonders as to the status of billions upon billions of leveraged bets made on shale oil/gas before the market imploded.

Who's holding all that junk and will it turn out to be another too-big-to-fail bailouts & bonus bonanza for banksters.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Dipanker » 19 Dec 2016 11:35

Storm is brewing, dark clouds are gathering on the horizon. A correction in the market is seriously due. It will happen in the next couple of years maybe sooner. For restoration of sanity a 30 to 45% correction is what the doctor will order. Market is screaming, GO SHORT!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Dec 2016 11:55

Why do you say this, Dipankerji? At least the part of the market where my 3 shares are invested, has been barely moving this year. Rose a bit last year, but was constipated before that as well. Annual rise of 8% is a thing of the distant past. Meanwhile interest is essentially zero. I just don't understand e-CON-o-comics. Meanwhile other mouths quoted in Economic Times for instance are talking about US equities "racing past" Emerging Market stocks - which does not take much speed. :roll:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Dipanker » 19 Dec 2016 12:05

Purely gut feeling and hunch, the numbers don't look right. Please do not take my forecast seriously! Do you own due diligence!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby habal » 19 Dec 2016 12:16

maybe they are preparing to crash everything as soon as Trump is sworn into office.

maybe on same day itself so that Trump can be sworn in with much doom and gloom.
atleast for the first few months Trumpji is going to be attacked every inch of the way.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Viv S » 19 Dec 2016 12:22

Austin wrote:U.S. SHALE GAS INDUSTRY: Countdown To Disaster

The U.S. shale oil and gas industry hasn’t made any real money since 2009.

A blogger making the same gross generalization doesn't help your case. At least no more than Lehman Brothers proving investment banking is unprofitable, Nokia proving mobile devices were a fool's errand or Kingfisher proving there was no money in commercial aviation.

Fact remains, firms that have high breakeven costs or are highly leveraged (like Chesapeake) will struggle and may be forced to sell assets. Those that aren't will survive, thrive and expand. Wells that can extract oil at $45/bl will remain operational with global oil at $50/bl irrespective of who owns it or how much debt it holds.

And while RoccoCoolCat may be 'counting down to disaster' the actual US shale output has actually been recovering and will continue to recover unless the global oil prices slide again, which I wouldn't deny is a real possibility.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Madhusudhan » 19 Dec 2016 22:43

Don't want to do the election to death, but let us not make the mistake of betting on the wrong horses for the next few decades and project the future political makeup of the United States based on demographics. If there is one thing we have learnt from this election, it is the fact that the urban and suburban population centers where diversity is increasing have a fraction of the political power that the rural areas do. Unless there is a massive change in the political system, most of the shots in the US will be called by white conservatives heavily influenced by rural values, and it would be good to keep that in mind while setting expectations and projecting future policy.

Not my favourite newspaper, but this was a fairly insightful article: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/upsho ... .html?_r=1

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby ssundar » 20 Dec 2016 00:15

Dipanker wrote:No need to move to heartland, Texas should turn into blue state by next presidential election, current hispanic population of Texas is ~40% and non-hispanic white population is ~43% and non white population is increasing at a faster rate than whites. When that happens it will be become virtually impossible for Republicans to win a presidential election. The country is headed to a single party rule as far as presidential elections are concerned.


Dipankerji, you are assuming that people who vote a certain way today will continue to vote the same way for decades in the future. Past performance is no indicator of future trends.

Trump camp and Hindu American Foundation claim that over 60% of the Hindu-American vote went to Trump. If true, this is a surprise. I have believed for years that Hindus blindly vote Democrat. It appears at least a good percentage of Hindus have started voting in the US elections based on which candidate is good for India and Indians. The presence of HRC on the ballot was enough to shift at least a sizable chunk of Indian (Hindu) vote to Trump.

A similar ethnic/religious assertion will happen in all other ethnic/religious groups. For example, what would happen in Texas, Florida, New Mexico, Arizona and California if a very charismatic Hispanic candidate becomes the Republican nominee for Prez?

This could well be a positive development - the ideological differences between the two parties will diminish and elections will be fought and won purely on the basis of the candidate's individual strength.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Hitesh » 20 Dec 2016 00:18

Cosmo_R wrote:
Agreed. Going to WV and telling coal miners " we're going to put you out of a job" reflects the tin ear of a liberal elitist who seemed to put gender/bathrooms over the life and death issues of the working class. It was a Marie-Antoinette moment.


I disagree. It was a necessary message to these people. They had to understand their way of life is long past and they need to learn new trades or new skills. Clinton did them a favor by trying to open their eyes and take advantage of job retraining programs that Obama was offering.

Coal is dead. The writing is on the wall. The demand for coal has been declining for years in the US and will continue to do so. The canary in the mine has sung and its time to get out while you can otherwise you will find yourself in a deep hole.

So she wasn't being an elitist when she said that. She was trying to help them by being honestly blunt about the future. Looks like West Virginia is headed for troubling and tough times if they refuse to hear the message.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Rishi Verma » 20 Dec 2016 01:29

Trump is Too Crazy to be President

Being crazy, wako, psycho is the best thing, adds to the uncertainty factor in the minds of the adversary (China) which will be good for us.

Washington: Three leading professors of psychiatry from America's prestigious universities have written to President Barack Obama, expressing their "grave concern" over his successor Donald Trump's mental stability. This, however, is not the first time mental health professionals have weighed in on Trump's suitability for office.


PS all the three "experts" are female...had they checked Hillary, they would have noticed that her head can rotate 360 degrees on its axis

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Mort Walker » 20 Dec 2016 03:24

Hitesh wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:
Agreed. Going to WV and telling coal miners " we're going to put you out of a job" reflects the tin ear of a liberal elitist who seemed to put gender/bathrooms over the life and death issues of the working class. It was a Marie-Antoinette moment.


I disagree. It was a necessary message to these people. They had to understand their way of life is long past and they need to learn new trades or new skills. Clinton did them a favor by trying to open their eyes and take advantage of job retraining programs that Obama was offering.

Coal is dead. The writing is on the wall. The demand for coal has been declining for years in the US and will continue to do so. The canary in the mine has sung and its time to get out while you can otherwise you will find yourself in a deep hole.

So she wasn't being an elitist when she said that. She was trying to help them by being honestly blunt about the future. Looks like West Virginia is headed for troubling and tough times if they refuse to hear the message.


Not true. Coal still provides nearly a 1/3 of power to the US and more than 60% in India. There no signs of coal slowing down world wide and coal had slowed down in the US in the last 8 years, but that is soon to be reversed in a matter of months by the DT administration. Elections have consequences. Now please quit whining and contribute relevant posts to this thread or get out. This thread is about India-US relations and Understanding the US thread was shut down. No need to spread your Alt-Left ideology here.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Hitesh » 20 Dec 2016 04:06

Rishi Verma wrote:Trump is Too Crazy to be President

Being crazy, wako, psycho is the best thing, adds to the uncertainty factor in the minds of the adversary (China) which will be good for us.


Not really.

PS all the three "experts" are female...had they checked Hillary, they would have noticed that her head can rotate 360 degrees on its axis


A medical impossibility and you know that.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16504
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby NRao » 20 Dec 2016 04:10

They say timing is everything. So here goes. This from the (two) horses mouths.

India announces plan to step away from coal, casting doubt on approved Queensland Adani mine

UPDATED MON DEC 19 14:26:14 EST 2016
Email


So, not old at all.


India has released a new power plan promoting a dramatic increase in renewable energy and raising doubts about the Indian-owned Adani Group's massive coal mine in Queensland.

Key points:
* The plan says no need for additional coal fired energy capacity in next decade
* Six-fold rise in energy from renewable sources key part of national electricity plan
* Josh Frydenberg said the Adani mine had to go ahead because India desperately needed it for energy

The new national electricity plan says India will not need any additional coal-fired energy capacity in the next decade. (ouch, that hurt)

India's Energy Minister Piyush Goyal alluded to a renewables pivot when he spoke to Four Corners last year.

"I hope in the years to come we can see an explosion of renewable energy on the back of cheaper storage," Mr Goyal said. (Very smart. Trump listening?)

Tim Buckley from the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analytics told AM the development was bad news for the Australian coal industry.

"They [India] say that they have 50 gigawatts of coal-fired power plants under construction already, so it's far better to complete those than write them off as stranded assets," he said.

"But no new coal-fired plants in India in the next decade."

Mr Buckley said the plan had left the Adani proposal "totally stranded".

However, Adani rejects Mr Buckley's argument, saying it needs to coal for itself.

"What happens to the market has no implication for Adani because we are supplying our own power stations with our own coal," an Adani spokesman told the ABC.

Plans to fund billion-dollar railway to mine

Despite these doubts, the Australian Government plans to give a $1 billion subsidised loan to Adani to build a railway to the planned mine.

When the then Minister for Resources Josh Frydenberg approved the Adani mine in north Queensland 14 months ago, he argued it had to go ahead because India desperately needed it for energy.

"I think there is a strong moral case here, it will help lift hundreds and millions of people out of energy poverty, not just in India but right across the world," Mr Frydenberg said.

Mr Buckley said the International Energy Agency (IEA) had forecast that hundreds of gigawatts of new coal-fired power plants would be built in India in the next few decades.

"The Indian Energy Ministry is saying that is absolutely wrong," he said.
:rotfl:

"He instead articulates a plan that involves building 215 gigawatts of renewable energy, building another 20 gigawatts of hydro, building five gigawatts of nuclear, building a bit more gas, and dramatically elevating the importance of energy efficiency and grid efficiency in order to diversify India rapidly away from coal."




Man. Hats off. Salute. And, anything else.
Last edited by NRao on 20 Dec 2016 04:33, edited 1 time in total.

Hitesh
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Posts: 793
Joined: 04 Jul 1999 11:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Hitesh » 20 Dec 2016 04:14

Mort Walker wrote:
Not true. Coal still provides nearly a 1/3 of power to the US and more than 60% in India. There no signs of coal slowing down world wide and coal had slowed down in the US in the last 8 years, but that is soon to be reversed in a matter of months by the DT administration. Elections have consequences.


That is wishful thinking. Coal is on the way out. Coal may provide 1/3 but that was a decrease from 80-90% back in the day. In fact, natural gas has taken the role of coal because it presents a far lower cost than coal and economical considerations make coal an unlikely prospect for investments.

Now please quit whining and contribute relevant posts to this thread or get out. This thread is about India-US relations and Understanding the US thread was shut down. No need to spread your Alt-Left ideology here.


Excuse me? Why don't you quit whining about my rebuttals? If you do not like my posts rebut them but don't ever tell me to shut up or acquisce to your view. I will make my posts as I see fit in response to whatever posts the posters, including you, have made. If you don't like my posts, then don't read it. The post I made was in reference to another post made by another poster and I disputed it.

And I am not spreading my "alt left ideology" or what ever label you find convinient to label in furtherance of your ad hominem attacks. I am expressing my opinion. If you got a problem with that, deal with it.

If you didn't like what I posted, then you should have criticize that other poster for making that comment that prompted my post. No selective criticism here.

Hitesh
BRFite
Posts: 793
Joined: 04 Jul 1999 11:31

Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Hitesh » 20 Dec 2016 04:15

NRao wrote:They say timing is everything. So here goes. This from the (two) horses mouths.

India announces plan to step away from coal, casting doubt on approved Queensland Adani mine

UPDATED MON DEC 19 14:26:14 EST 2016
Email


So, not old at all.


India has released a new power plan promoting a dramatic increase in renewable energy and raising doubts about the Indian-owned Adani Group's massive coal mine in Queensland.

Key points:
* The plan says no need for additional coal fired energy capacity in next decade
* Six-fold rise in energy from renewable sources key part of national electricity plan
* Josh Frydenberg said the Adani mine had to go ahead because India desperately needed it for energy

The new national electricity plan says India will not need any additional coal-fired energy capacity in the next decade. (ouch, that hurt)

India's Energy Minister Piyush Goyal alluded to a renewables pivot when he spoke to Four Corners last year.

"I hope in the years to come we can see an explosion of renewable energy on the back of cheaper storage," Mr Goyal said. (Very smart. Trump listening?)

Tim Buckley from the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analytics told AM the development was bad news for the Australian coal industry.

"They [India] say that they have 50 gigawatts of coal-fired power plants under construction already, so it's far better to complete those than write them off as stranded assets," he said.

"But no new coal-fired plants in India in the next decade."

Mr Buckley said the plan had left the Adani proposal "totally stranded".

However, Adani rejects Mr Buckley's argument, saying it needs to coal for itself.

"What happens to the market has no implication for Adani because we are supplying our own power stations with our own coal," an Adani spokesman told the ABC.

Plans to fund billion-dollar railway to mine

Despite these doubts, the Australian Government plans to give a $1 billion subsidised loan to Adani to build a railway to the planned mine.

When the then Minister for Resources Josh Frydenberg approved the Adani mine in north Queensland 14 months ago, he argued it had to go ahead because India desperately needed it for energy.

"I think there is a strong moral case here, it will help lift hundreds and millions of people out of energy poverty, not just in India but right across the world," Mr Frydenberg said.

Mr Buckley said the International Energy Agency (IEA) had forecast that hundreds of gigawatts of new coal-fired power plants would be built in India in the next few decades.

"The Indian Energy Ministry is saying that is absolutely wrong," he said.
:rotfl:

"He instead articulates a plan that involves building 215 gigawatts of renewable energy, building another 20 gigawatts of hydro, building five gigawatts of nuclear, building a bit more gas, and dramatically elevating the importance of energy efficiency and grid efficiency in order to diversify India rapidly away from coal."




Man. Hats off. Salute. And, anything else.


Great news and this is a strong rebuttal to Mort Walker's wild and baseless assertions.


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