Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

gaurav_w · Post by **gaurav_w** » 21 Dec 2016 12:30

Finally...... Now someone Just add #Tested Successfully # Getting productionized.. Please....

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 21 Dec 2016 12:43

^^ The main thing is to test, we may never be fully ready,
if successful celebrate and productionalize it in 1000s
else identify issues, rectify them and test again. It's better to have them fail now than in war have ur balloon punctured like it did with Mushy boy in Kargill

tushar_m · Post by **tushar_m** » 21 Dec 2016 13:38

Livefist ‏@livefist 24m24 minutes ago
The Nirbhay took off at 11.56am from launchpad-3 at ITR. Official results expected any time now.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 21 Dec 2016 14:00

It's been 2 hours since the launch. We should be getting the media update anytime now.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 21 Dec 2016 14:04

Nothing on Google chacha.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 21 Dec 2016 14:09

All India Radio has tweeted it to be successful

tushar_m · Post by **tushar_m** » 21 Dec 2016 14:15

All India Radio News ‏@airnewsalerts 6m6 minutes ago
India successfully test-fires nuclear capable cruise missile #Nirbhay
from the Integrated Missile Test Range in #Chandipur, #Odisha

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 21 Dec 2016 14:16

Hurray...

now wait for Hemant Rout..the official spokesperson to come and announce the result..Until then it's unofficial.

Even though with little bit of negativity..he do give precise news..like..the missile exploded 1 meter from the target and missing it completely

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 21 Dec 2016 14:56

If it is a test of Nirbhay without a seeker then the Marginal cost of the missile would be around (guess) Rs. 2 crores or so. At this cost point, its well worth to take a chance by testing the missile.

KBDagha · Post by **KBDagha** » 21 Dec 2016 15:07

Livefist ‏@livefist
No official word/confirmation from @DRDO_India yet, but we hear the Nirbhay missile test today was successful. More details awaited.

Krishna_V · Post by **Krishna_V** » 21 Dec 2016 15:19

urdu_etv is showing a short clip of the launch

ashkrishna · Post by **ashkrishna** » 21 Dec 2016 15:27

It's an old launch video being shown on etv.

ashkrishna · Post by **ashkrishna** » 21 Dec 2016 15:35

Prasar Bharti on twitter says launch is successful

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Dec 2016 15:45

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/long-rang ... fired-itr/

BALASORE: India today successfully test-fired its Long range subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay from the Integrated Test Range(ITR) at Chandipur on sea off Odisha coast.

ITR sources said the 1000 km range missile was test-fired around 1156 hours from the launch complex three of the Integrated test Range at Chandipur, about 15 kms from here.

Nirbhaya is said to be India’s answer to America’s Tomahawk and Pakistan’s Babur missile.

Sources said after blasting off from launch pad, the two-stage Nirbhaya took a unique trajectory in its entire path to the target.
Being a terrain hugging missile, Nirbhaya is difficult to detect by the enemy’s radars.

The missile keeps on encircling the area of its target for several minutes and then hits the bull’s eye’ on an opportune time, defence sources said.
Capable of carrying multiple payloads, the missile can engage several targets in a single flight.

This lethal weapon can be launched from various kind of platforms, ranging from surface lorry to a ship, from air and even from underwater vessels, ITR sources said. (AGENCIES)

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 21 Dec 2016 15:47

Hope not too early for massive group lungi dance.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 21 Dec 2016 16:10

Hemant Raut twittes:

As apprehended by @NewIndianXpress sub-sonic cruise #missile Nirbhay tested with faults in system failed during its 4th test. @DRDO_India

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 21 Dec 2016 16:13

Very unfortunate

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 21 Dec 2016 16:36

AIl govt channels reporting it to be successful. I guess we have to wait for more clarity.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 21 Dec 2016 18:14

@livefist
Confirmed, Nirbhay missile test today failed. Aborted after lift-off. Details of reasons for abort awaited. Third failed test.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 21 Dec 2016 18:21

“The booster engine in Nirbhay's first stage started working. The missile lifted off from its launcher. But it started veering dangerously towards one side in less than two minutes of its lift-off,” DRDO officials said.

This could be a problem with deployment of fins/wings.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 21 Dec 2016 18:29

Now that they are in MTCR they should take help from the Russians or Americans instead of spending more time trying to get it right.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 21 Dec 2016 18:34

The failure itself doesn't bother me as much as the timeline. Mar 2014. Oct 2015. Oct 2016.

Why does it take a full year to run a diagnostic on a test, rectify it and carry out another one?

Are we going to have the next test in Oct 2017?

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 21 Dec 2016 18:37

The news report etc says words like "utter failure" quoting unnamed sources. Who is talking these words? I mean normal reports do not have such quotes immediately.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 21 Dec 2016 18:41

Nirbhay is a failure alright. But Hemant rout is definitely an example of successful journalist wrt missile news. He sure has some genuine sources. He had almost predicted this failure.

Or maybe DRDO uses him as a cushioning pad against likely failures.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Dec 2016 19:20

Nirbhay missile test “an utter failure” - T.S.Subramanian, The Hindu

A flight-test of subsonic cruise missile Nirbhay from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Balasore in Odisha on Wednesday was “an utter failure”, informed sources in the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) said.

Out of four Nirbhay missions so far, three, including Wednesday's flight-test, have ended in failure.

On Wednesday afternoon, after the missile took off from Launch Complex-III of the ITR, it did not follow the required flight path.

“The booster engine in Nirbhay's first stage started working. The missile lifted off from its launcher. But it started veering dangerously towards one side in less than two minutes of its lift-off,” DRDO officials said.

The missile started flying beyond the safety corridor and threatened to fall on the land. So the “destruct” mechanism in its first stage was activated and it was destroyed.

The DRDO sources called the mission “an utter failure” because the missile started veering towards one side in the “initial phase” of the flight itself. They said, “It is a big failure. We should have a thorough re-look at what has been done so far. Out of four Nirbhay missions, three have ended in failure.”

The sources ruled out any problem with the missile's configuration. They said it could be “a hardware failure” that led to the mission being aborted. “This is a hardware element issue. This is a reliability issue with a component,” they explained.

A successful Nirbhay mission would have lasted for more than an hour. In a normal mission, the contraption will take off vertically like a missile, then a mechanism in its first stage will tilt the missile horizontally and the first stage, with its booster engine, will jettison into the sea. Then the second stage with the turbo-engine will start cruising horizontally like an aircraft with its wings spread out at a subsonic speed of 0.7 Mach.

The missile, conceived, designed and developed by the DRDO, can take out targets 1,000 km away. It can carry a 300 kg warhead.

Previous tests

Nirbhay’s debut flight on March 12, 2013 was a failure. After 20 minutes of lift-off, it deviated from its path and its “destruct” mechanism was activated to ''kill'' it.

The second flight on October 17, 2014 was a big success. The missile travelled 1,010 km instead of the targeted 800 km.

The third mission on October 16, 2015 was again a failure. After 70 seconds of its flight, when it was cruising like an aircraft after the first stage had fallen off as planned, it lost control and fell within the safety zone.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 21 Dec 2016 19:23

Unnecessary pressure is what leads to such failures. They should keep it kook and spend time in finding the root cause.

From the report it seems like issue encountered during first flight never got resolved. There seems to be serious INS or TERCOM issues which team is battling with.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 21 Dec 2016 19:27

So we didnt learn all the lessons from Brahmos ? what are the similarities/difference of Nirbhay with brahmos apart from range, speed, payload.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 21 Dec 2016 19:29

Ah man, was looking forward to this test since last year.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Dec 2016 19:32

So we failed again.??

No big deal.

Pick yourself up, dust yourselves off and start again.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 21 Dec 2016 19:34

Third test was conducted one year after second, which was successful ? Fourth test again happened 1 year after third. Conducting root cause analysis at the beginning of a project can take that much time, but when the product has come this far, and has once been tested successfully, one test per year gap is quite long.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 21 Dec 2016 19:59

manjgu wrote:So we didnt learn all the lessons from Brahmos ? what are the similarities/difference of Nirbhay with brahmos apart from range, speed, payload.

Huge differences. Nirbhay development is far more challenging than Brahmos because it's subsonic, terrain hugging, has more intelligent veering/loitering capabilities, more payload, more range...basically its more complex than Brahmos. It was anticipated that there will be failures since there's a huge learning curve for DRDO in this area.

srin · Post by **srin** » 21 Dec 2016 20:08

Missile tests fail - that's why they are called tests. The worrying thing to me is there seems to be some sort of split within DRDO. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been leak of the lack of preparation and certainly not the words "utter failure" (which conveys i-told-you-so sentiment).

Maybe I'm reading too much but all isn't well within DRDO

John · Post by **John** » 21 Dec 2016 20:10

manjgu wrote:So we didnt learn all the lessons from Brahmos ? what are the similarities/difference of Nirbhay with brahmos apart from range, speed, payload.

Brahmos is more complex system which has bigger onboard computer and large active radar seeker, also it uses liquid ramjet engine with a solid booster. Also the missile is canisterized (only the air launched brahmos does not require a canister) i believe there is plans to canister Nirbhay. Another challenge is managing the heat due to its supersonic speed especially at lower altitudes (unlike Shaurya). With range extension of Brahmos it seems to me IMO both Navy and Army are shifting more towards Brahmos to fill that void left by Nirbhay.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 21 Dec 2016 20:13

It is not about one being more complex than the other when both present different set of challenges, and come with different design goals.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 21 Dec 2016 20:15

chetak wrote:So we failed again.??

No big deal.

Pick yourself up, dust yourselves off and start again.

+1, only thing i would wish more is more frequent tests or may be the team will go back to drawing board in more detail

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 Dec 2016 20:31

No big deal , if this was a simple missile it would have succeeded , drdo has seen bigger failures and made it a success , they will learn with nirbhai and succeed

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Dec 2016 20:43

Sid wrote:Unnecessary pressure is what leads to such failures. They should keep it kook and spend time in finding the root cause.

From the report it seems like issue encountered during first flight never got resolved. There seems to be serious INS or TERCOM issues which team is battling with.

This test was aborted with in two minutes when it veered towards land mass. The issues Hemant Rout was informed were for control systems which start after the turbo-fan phase.

Most likely an inexpensive component did not work leading to this test abort.

A missile test has many phases. This has validated the pre-launch trajectory programming, the launch itself, flight telemetry and the destruct system.

Rest is easy. Need more l(a)unches.

Every test launch has known and unknown risks. The launch director has to take an informed decision. Looks like this issue was a lurking reliability issue.

---

"Utter failure" words used are from some guy who never did any work except file pushing.
Every test failure is a lot to learn from.

If we see the initial video we can get an idea.

DRDO must have reams of data from the two minutes of flight.

Missile tip off is very challenging as the high accelerations are lateral not axial.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Dec 2016 20:44

Please post more reports especially from Hemant Rout.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 21 Dec 2016 21:26

An apt quotation from Samuel Beckett for this moment..

Ever tried, ever failed,
No matter.
Try again, fail again,
Fail better!

This weapon, once mastered will become the workhorse of our armed forces, be used from land, sea and air. It will be manufactured in thousands.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Dec 2016 22:22

All in all a sorry December. One I would like to forget