Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

[NRao]

Wary of China, India offers Akash surface-to-air missile systems to Vietnam

[ramana]

Arun, Great finding Frontline interview. In hindsight Mr Chander gave a lot of info on what was the design philosophy.
Interstage with trusses were for upper stage exhaust gases at separation eject/vent easily. And lighting the forward stage just before separation gives positive way of stage separation as the exhaust pushes the departing stage. But this causes sever thermal and shock environment between the stages and aft equipment has to be rugged thermally and structurally.
So using retro rockets motors to pushway the departing stage is old school space vehicle technology but avoids the environment I was talking about. Good for less energetic motors.

One key word he used is motor pressure.
Energy of a rocket motor is proportional to burn area and pressure. From G.P. Sutton 'Fundamentals of Propulsion'

So Agni motors have been finally system designed and not put together as IGMP had to make do with in early phases with ASLV hand me downs and Prithvi jugaads.

So what is the weight of AIII and A V payloads?
I know it is 1.5 tonnes for A V.
What was it for AIII?

[Bheeshma]

As per wiki it is 2.5 tonne but then who knows. The numbers DRDO throws up are mostly to confuse everyone. Even Agni-1/1V ranges are quoted for 1 tonne. I can't figure out why? They won't carry anything heavier than 500 -600 Kg.

[shiv]

Weight of warhead is an indicator of both yield and sophistication. Putting out a large figure like 1000 to 1500 kg for warhead weight could indicate anything from Smiling Buddha 8-12 kiloton to 400-500 kilotons.This tactic silences critics who say that India's warheads are not sophisticated enough to be lightweight. The message is "so friggin what" - we will deliver heavy warheads and the cities that get hit will not be worrying about whether they were hit by lightweight warhead or heavyweight warhead - just like people of Hiroshima did not ask of they could have been hit by a lighter warhead.

[sum]

Was this posted?

Roundup of 2016 by Shri Rout:

DRDO missions: Many hits, few misses

With successful flight testing of longest range nuclear capable Inter-Continental Range Ballistic Missile Agni-V, trials of submarine launched long ballistic missile K-4 from INS Arihant and continued successful user trials of Prithvi-II, BrahMos, Agni-I, Akash, Dhanush and Astra missiles besides addition of new weapon systems, the eventful year displayed the nation's prowess and self-reliance in advanced missile technology development programme.

Of 26 missions involving 10 missiles conducted from the defence test facility off Odisha coast, 21 have been successful barring only five during which the missiles failed to hit the target. The four include indigenously developed cruise missile Nirbhay which was destroyed mid-air after it deviated from trajectory and Astra that exploded after launch from aircraft.


The successful test firing of 5,000 km range Agni-V, underwater ballistic missile from a submarine, Medium Range Surface-to-Air Missile and Long Range Surface-to-Air Missile developed jointly with Israel Aerospace Industries, AAD interceptor missile, air-to-air Astra missile from Sukhoi aircraft, Nag missile, new generation anti-radiation missile and tests of smart anti air field weapon were some of the missions that brought cheer for DRDO.

On April 8, notwithstanding international pressure, India secretly conducted the maiden test of its nuclear capable undersea ballistic missile K-4 from homegrown submarine INS Arihant from an undisclosed location in Bay of Bengal.

Guided flight tests of Nag missile were carried out with the objective of demonstrating range capabilities of imaging infrared (IIR) seeker during worst time of the day in summer environment. Similarly, captive flight trials of new generation anti-radiation missile were carried out at airforce station, Pune with Sukhoi-30 MKI aircraft while Smart Anti Air Field Weapon (SAAW) capable of engaging ground targets with high precision up to a range of 100 kms was tested from an aircraft.

The year also saw augmentation of nation's defence preparedness by adding new high power fifth generation aircraft, combat aircraft, drones, unmanned aerial vehicles, airborne early warning and control system, warships and light combat helicopter

This was too a fruitful year for DRDO in the field of research and development. It developed a new thermal imaging radar called 'Divyachakshu' which can scan through walls and is expected to help the Indian armed forces to deal with any hostage situation eventuality. A new technology has been developed for utilising solar heat harnessed during the day for heating rooms during the night at extreme altitude.

[shashankk]

India reply to China concern: Another Nuke missile test

BHUBANESWAR: Amidst rising concern of China over successful test firing of ICBM Agni-V, India is contemplating a fresh test of its longest range submarine-launched ballistic missile, code named K-4, which is capable of delivering nuclear warhead over 3,500 km away.
Sources said, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is planning to conduct the test from an undersea platform in the Bay of Bengal by month-end.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 15--1.html

[SSridhar]

Of course, there is a vast difference between Agni-IV and Agni-V payloads.

Wonder what that meant.

To me it can mean only one thing, MIRV.

[SSridhar]

What was it for AIII?

ramana, from many sources, it is 2500 Kg.

arun, thanks for recalling the Frontline interview.

[sum]

^^ Shri Rout ( unofficial spokesperson of ITR and DRDO) brings some good news on Nirbhay:
Extension for Nirbhay, panel to identify flaws

India’s own cruise missile project Nirbhay has got an extension of 18 months amid speculations over the weapon system’s operational capabilities. Launched in 2004, the projected date of completion for the prestigious project was December 31 last.

At a recent review meeting, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar gave green signal for the extension. Ministry of Defence sources said the Nirbhay team has been asked to deliver their best by June, 2018.

An official associated with the project, however, informed that the blame game between two laboratories of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) cost the project more than the faults in the system.

While Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), which has designed the missile, has been blaming Research Centre Imarat (RCI) for supplying defective hardware, the latter points fingers at ADE-developed software for recurring failure of the missile.

‘’The probe committee will ascertain which is defective, the software or hardware. It may also inspect metallurgical deficiencies,’’ the sources said.

[ramana]

Kurup, Can you check for NOTAM in April 2016 for K4?

[ramana]

SS, Not sure. It means heavy TN. Not the optimissed one. 2.5 tonne would do it.

Bheeshma Check Titan etc.

[ramana]

Sashankk Please post full article so people can analyze it.

[Indranil]

While I don't the weight of the operational Agni -III, one thing is for sure, it weighs considerably less than 48 tons now. People must understand that changing the second stage and the payload weight marginally, enormously changes the weight of the missile. For comparisons check the weight difference between a PSLV and a GSLV. It is not just the difference of weight between the maraging steel and the composite material.

By the way Agni-5, is not optimized either. The lower stage will be converted to composite soon. The range will still be 5,500 km though

Added later, if Rout is correct about K4 weight: 17 tons, payload: 2 Tons and range 3500 km, I have no doubt in my mind that DRDO can design a land based Agni-3P weighing 22 Tons with the same range and 25% larger payload.

[Supratik]

Longer range. 12 m length. I have a feeling it is the K4 MK2.

[Philip]

Good news,but let's seal the deal for this and BMos too.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 410196.cms

Wary of China, India offers Akash surface-to-air missile systems to Vietnam

Rajat Pandit | TNN | Updated: Jan 9, 2017,
Indigenously developed Akash surface-to-air missile. (TOI File Photo)
NEW DELHI: India is now actively discussing the possible sale of the indigenously developed Akash surface-to-air missile systems+ to Vietnam, even as the two countries steadily crank up their bilateral military ties with a watchful eye on a confrontational China in the Asia-Pacific region.
With Beijing continuing to thwart New Delhi's bid to join the 48-nation Nuclear Suppliers Group and get Jaish-e-Muhammed chief Masood Azhar+ designated a terrorist by the UN, while also stepping up its naval forays into the Indian Ocean Region, India is responding by fast-tracking military ties with countries in China's own backyard. The expanding "strategic and military partnership" with Japan and Vietnam, in particular, has emerged a major thrust area.
Sources say the discussions under way with Vietnam on the Akash area defence missiles, which have an interception range of 25-km against hostile aircraft, helicopters and drones, come after India earlier offered BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles+ and Varunastra anti-submarine torpedoes to the country.
India, of course, will also begin training Vietnamese fighter pilots on its Sukhoi-30MKI fighter jets from this year, much like it has been tutoring sailors from that country on the intricate art of operating Kilo-class submarines for the last three years, as reported earlier by TOI.
Defence minister Manohar Parrikar says Vietnam "is a close friend" and several initiatives are in progress to further boost bilateral defence cooperation, ranging from help in upgrade of military equipment of the Vietnamese forces to training them on fighters and submarines.
All this comes in the backdrop of India and Vietnam deciding to "elevate" their "strategic partnership", which was established in July 2007, into a "comprehensive strategic partnership" during PM Narendra Modi's visit to Hanoi in September 2016.
Sources said Vietnam has shown "deep interest" in the acquisition of Akash missiles, asking for transfer of technology and joint production of the air defence system.
India, however, thinks it has to be an incremental process, with an initial off-the-shelf purchase followed by transfer of technology in maintenance and other areas.
"Talks are in progress to arrive at a common plan. It's relatively easier on the Akash front since the missile system is 96% indigenous," said a source. The two defence secretaries, incidentally, are slated to meet soon to identify the military projects and equipment under the new $500 million defence line of credit announced by Modi in September.
But it will be more complicated to sell the 290-km range BrahMos — or transfer technology — to Vietnam because the missiles are produced here under a joint Indo-Russian venture. BrahMos missiles still have an import content of over 60% from Russia.

On other fronts, however, India is fast expanding its military training, technology sharing, joint exercises, visits and exchange of experts with Vietnam. Faced with a belligerent China, Vietnam too has been strengthening its military capabilities by inducting Kilo-class submarines and Sukhoi fighters from Russia, both of which have been operated by Indian armed forces for years.
It was in 2013 that India had kicked off the training of a large number of Vietnamese sailors in "comprehensive underwater combat operations'' in Navy submarine school INS Satavahana, Visakhapatnam.

now that's called as tit for tat. if China thinks they can support porkistan and try to create a pressure on india , india must also show Chinese their place . it is very necessary to do this. just s... Read More
kumar



Just as China has gained "parking rights in Gwadar,so should India establish similar naval and air facilities at Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam.India should also expedite asap nuclear assiostance,build research reactors for the Vuetnamese-just as the PRC is doing for Pak,so that Vietnam can one day become a full-fledged nuclear weapons power. When China,Pak and NoKo flaunt nuclear proliferation globally,without a whimper of protest from the US and other P-5 nations ,to achieve their own dastardly ends,why should India not arm its own friends also threatened by China too?

[nash]

Longer range. 12 m length. I have a feeling it is the K4 MK2.

It also says the advance version of missile will be tested and as per wiki the 12 m long K4 has 5000-8000 km range

[JayS]

^^ I believe the specific method of ablative coating with chromium allowed a greatetravel distance. That was incorporated in al the further Iterations of Agni. I doubt they would have mentioned the actual methodology in any paper as it would be secret.(They applied for a patent so the actual method must be different significantly from other methods)

Use of Ablative coating allows for much lesser half cone angle for the nose, reducing drag and thus increasing range. Maybe our technology is superior to the one which other have, US for example. But I would say it must be marginally best if they have applied for patent. No one applies for patent if they have a key technology for ICBM.

What I have understood from it is, its path breaking in India's context. With the tech suddenly our missiles can have 40% longer range, and thus for same range much lighter. If I have option between having 40% range for same weight or 40% smaller missile for same range, I would choose the later since it would give me far more freedom to make it mobile and thus more strategic value out of same missile.

[arun]

Of course, there is a vast difference between Agni-IV and Agni-V payloads.

Wonder what that meant.

To me it can mean only one thing, MIRV.

S Sridhar,

I think that the comment on the “vast difference between Agni-IV and Agni-V payloads” has nothing to do with one missile system being designed for MIRV’s and the other not being designed gor MIRv’s.

I say the above as BOTH Agni IV and Agni V are being designed to be MIRV capable. Dr VK Saraswat, the then chief of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) in an interview by NDTV on May 04, 2013 has disclosed this:

“We are designing the MIRVs, we are integrating it with Agni IV and Agni V missiles”

Whatever that “vast difference” is, it thus has nothing to do with MIRV’s.

See here:

India's nuclear deterrence capacity is in place, the country can sleep well: Defence research chief

[shiv]

Like a man who listens to the Ramayana and then asked "Who was Sita?" I request some charitable person to explain to me what are Agni 1, 2 3 4 and 5. I lost track after Agni I or II. Maybe only a joker would ask this but I am not joking

[sas]

Nirbhay's wing deployment mechanism. (Apologies if posted earlier in this thread).

-->>Nirbhay employs a centrally pivoted mono wing. Given the space and weight constraints, mechanism for deploying the wing would be simple and tested for high order of repeatability.

Found these links in google patents.
Wing deployment mechanism illustrated in this link is somewhat analogous to Nirbhay's wing deployment mechanism.
http://www.google.co.in/patents/US4493136

1) Captive and deployed position of mono wing.


2) Mono wing deployment mechanism (Disc with notch or slots).


3) Fastener mechanism.


-->>Wing deployment mechanism in Nirbhay seems to have some similarities illustrated in above patent links, except for the Fastener mechanism intended for quick release of mono wing. In case of Nirbhay, wing deployment mechanism may be a simple spring loaded notched disc.

4) In this video link @1:08 one can clearly hear a locking or clicking sound when the wing get fully deployed, possibility of some kind of lock or actuating lever sliding into the notch of the disc. Again @ 1:08 in the video link, the person is able to rotate the mono wing with minimum effort implies a motorless deployment mechanism.
http://www.ndtv.com/video/news/news/ind ... ils-268282

5) Mono wing slit is open without any fairing or plug.


6) Mono wing fully deployed, wing slot door is closed providing a clean aerodynamic fuselage.



7) As opposed to above picture, one side of the wing slot door seems open or partially closed in this video @ 1:17

[nirav]

Like a man who listens to the Ramayana and then asked "Who was Sita?" I request some charitable person to explain to me what are Agni 1, 2 3 4 and 5. I lost track after Agni I or II. Maybe only a joker would ask this but I am not joking

The Agni if it's ever used in anger would cause major Agony to the recepient.

Won't matter if 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 did it.

We could actually do away with the 1-6 and just call it Agni series, capable of hitting 700 Km to 8000 Km.

[arun]

Kurup, Can you check for NOTAM in April 2016 for K4?

Ramana, Took it upon myself to check.

No NAVAREA VIII Warning for that date was found by me via a search for the words “Flight” and “Experimental”.

You may wish to recheck at the below links. Section 5 is the bit that carries NAVAREA Warnings:

1. INDIAN NOTICES TO MARINERS EDITION NO. 07 DATED 01 APR 2016

2. INDIAN NOTICES TO MARINERS EDITION NO. 08 DATED 16 APR 2016

My conclusion therefore is that no K4 Test took place and Hemant Kumar Rout has got it plain wrong as I refuse to believe that India would ignore international safety obligations and test a missile over and into waters that have not been closed to shipping.

Alternatively the K4 Missile flight was overland, impact point on land and launch was from a deep pool of water on land or just off shore

[SSridhar]

The last K4 test was supposed to have taken place in the newly created Tillanchong test range in Nicobar group of islands.

[ramana]

All right. Found this in the Arihant thread corroborating the Arihant Test:

viewtopic.php?p=2004552#p2004552

http://idrw.org/india-successfully-test ... c-missile/

According to the New Indian Express, the Arihant-based K-4 test was “conducted on March 31 nearly 45 nautical miles away from Vishakhapatnam coast in Andhra Pradesh.” The K-4 missile was fired from theArihant‘s onboard SLBM silos.
India’s K-4 is an intermediate-range, nuclear-capable, submarine-launched ballistic missile. Though official details remain scarce given the project’s sensitivity, most estimates place the K-4?s range at roughly 3,500 kilometers. Recent testing of the K-4 has sought to test the full operational range of the missile. As my colleague Franz-Stefan Gady discussed in March, “the K-4 was only tested to a range of 3,000 kilometers” in previous testing. In addition to its range, recent testing as sought to test the SLBM’s accuracy. Claims by DRDO scientists and publicly available information on the system suggest that the K-4 is a highly accurate system. As Franz has discussed, DRDO scientists have boasted that the K-4 has “near zero circular error probability” and uses “a Ringer Laser Gyro Inertial navigation system.”

and Indranil response:

I don't think that the latest K-4 test was any kind of message to Carter. If they wanted to send a message, they would have tested at max range. That message has already been sent.

They wanted to check integration and firing from Arihant as quietly as possible. So, they went for this elevated trajectory, issued a NOTAM of just 700 kms and tried to keep everything in secrecy. My guess is that more K-4 tests have been carried out just like this. Remember, by the time the press got wind of K-15, it had been tested more than 10 times! Why would K-4 be any different? The K-4 is albeit a little harder to hide. But, I feel they want to keep it as secretive as they can. However, unfortunately, one of Rout's connection at Balasore/ITR sang.

By the way, I can assure you that Rout is a real person. And his connections are very real. So, you can trust the news items he writes. His positive and negative commentary on a subject are basically what his sources are telling him. However, recently, he has started amplifying their sentiments with a little bit of masala. The pressures of today's journalism, I say. I look forward to his articles, read them, strip off the masala and keep the information.

So a short range NOTAM was issued as Indranil noted. Only difference is in dates 31 March vs. 10 April reported by Rout.

Does NOTAM for March 2016 match this test?

[ramana]

Like a man who listens to the Ramayana and then asked "Who was Sita?" I request some charitable person to explain to me what are Agni 1, 2 3 4 and 5. I lost track after Agni I or II. Maybe only a joker would ask this but I am not joking

Good question as there are so many Agnis which give Agony.

Agni (no suffix) was part of the IGMP. It was a hybrid missile (first stage solid propulsion and second stage liquid propulsion). In a speech to some college in TN, Kalam garu said that they had looked at over 80 configurations and settled on this as all components were available and least schedule impact. It had many launch pad checkout procedures which helped debug its early versions. First two launch attempts the checkout software prevent launch and thus they debugged it on the pad. First flight was hugely successful and carried a dummy payload section. Per Weapons of Peace (WOP) it was embarrassingly accurate. PS: The Agni has a High Altitude Engine(HAE) which allowed it to make up the velocity errors. Due to gravity, atmospheric density unknown, unknowns there will be velocity errors at burnout. HAE allows the make up of these errors. This is significant. Error of 1 ft/sec on a ICBM of 5000 mille range will cause 1 mile error at impact.

Once it became successful, PVNR declared it was Technology Demonstration System (TDS). Now called Agni TDS. And it went in silent mode. Then Agni II with both stages solid fuelled came into existence during the 90s.

After Kargil it was realized that Prithvi had to be moved close to border and caused lots of heart burn in TSP and Washington DC. So Agni I was quickly developed with just the first stage and had sufficient range to not cause the hurt burn by having to be moved close to the border.

Next came further development of Agni III which was still two stage and had the truss Inter-stage for separation system. And payload of 2.5 tonnes.

Next came Agni IV which is modernized Agni II and was renamed as Agni II after the first flight.

Next came Agni 5 or V which is current three stage missile.

Rest is still in design and development.

[Indranil]

In this talk by Tessy Thomas, at about 2:00 minute mark she says that using composite casings allows them to half the weight of the overall system. So 48 to 22 for Agni-III is not unthinkable.

[ramana]

I think we are not understanding its a system weight change. If we look at the individual rocket stage it looks not feasible to get half weight reduction by going for the composite casing from steel casing.
As Mr. Avinash Chander said earlier the casing allows increase in pressure which allows the lesser propellant for the same energy. And then they improved packing efficiency making the missile more compact. All these give the total weight reduction at a system level.


BTW Awesome lecture. Can some one screen grab the slides and post here please? Also from Lecture I?

Propulsion systems at 2:00, Auxiliary Propulsion Systems (APS) at 4:00 and Missile Aerodynamics at 5:00.

Thanks in advance.

[Bheeshma]

She may have meant the first or second stage as the system. But lets see.

[ramana]

BTW in US that slide on the motor would not be shown!!!!

[disha]

Here is one way to look at the timeline and hierarchy (cheat sheet., in addendum to Ramana'jis post):

Agni REX -> Agni TD -> Agni -> Agni II -[ bifurcates into ] - Agni I/Agni II -[bifurcates into] - Agni I/Agni II/Agni IV

Agni III -[bifurcates into] - Agni III/Agni V

Agni III -[backports technology into] - Agni II -> Agni IV

Agni V -[backports technology into] - Agni III -> Agni III 'P'

---

For example., Agni IV does not have hydraulic motors., has electro-mechanical motors. More reliable and more compact. It has RLG instead of traditional gyros. More compact, lighter weight and more precise.

Agni III started out with interstage trusses - Agni V has removed interstage trusses and has reverse thrusters.

Agni V has conical motors.

Agni III 'P'/V & Agni IV has higher energy propellant.

It is assumed that now all stages of Agni III 'P' and Agni V are composites.

---

Why Agni I/Agni II and Agni IV instead of Shourya? Well Agni I/Agni II (and thus Agni IV) are already proven rail mobile. They will be drop in 'upgrades' to existing missiles (or additional missiles). This complicates things for China - since Agni III/Agni V are caniterized road/rail mobile while Agni IV is "containerized" rail mobile. All with deep reach into China.

Also there are different ABM avoidance techniques built into each class. For example., Agni V with its conical motor can do toroidal porpoising maneuver. That is in approaching a target it can cork-screw to it while porpoising up and down the trajectory. To detect its trajectory correctly., there should be at least 3 radars - one in its direct path and two at angles to determine its path - linked, sharing data and calculating the points on the trajectory simultaneously.

Agni-V may evolve into MIRV/MaRV launcher.

[Edited: My Agni Vs became Agni IIIs what an agony!]

[ramana]

Also about that Chromium coating business to reduce drag, I don't know what is being said. the whole first stage where maximum drag occurs is slightly over a minute. So where does chromium coating help here?
If its during reentry then its ablative coating and will give off a large radar cross section with all that metal cloud, which is hardly desirable.

I think this is a college research project and is nice for studying ways to reduce drag.

[ramana]

Disha, The conical third stage motor section is in Agni V/5 only.

[ramana]

I just realized the MINGS is Dr. Tessy Thomas project.
Its the gyro less INS she conceptualized.

[ramana]

sas, Thanks for the many pictures of wing pivot system for aero vehicles and the Nirbhay videos.

[ramana]

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 57012.html

Extension for Nirbhay, panel to identify flaws

BHUBANESWAR: India’s own cruise missile project Nirbhay has got an extension of 18 months amid speculations over the weapon system’s operational capabilities. Launched in 2004, the projected date of completion for the prestigious project was December 31 last.

At a recent review meeting, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar gave green signal for the extension. Ministry of Defence sources said the Nirbhay team has been asked to deliver their best by June, 2018.

Under developmental trial since 2013, the missile is yet to perform as per the expectations. Of four tests in as many years, the indigenously developed weapon had failed three times though it could cover the intended range once in 2014.

Meanwhile, an independent technical committee has been formed to identify faults in the system that led to failure of the missile during its fourth trial on December 21.

The probe committee led by founder director of ISRO Inertial Systems Unit Dr Nagarajan Vedachalam will not only ascertain the faults but also recommend possible measures to make the system robust.

Like in its maiden trial and third test, the missile had veered off the trajectory minutes after take off during the last launch and the mission had to be aborted mid-air.

An official associated with the project, however, informed that the blame game between two laboratories of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) cost the project more than the faults in the system.

While Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), which has designed the missile, has been blaming Research Centre Imarat (RCI) for supplying defective hardware, the latter points fingers at ADE-developed software for recurring failure of the missile.

‘’The probe committee will ascertain which is defective, the software or hardware. It may also inspect metallurgical deficiencies,’’ the sources said.

Having a strike range of around 1,000 km, Nirbhay is first homegrown subsonic cruise missile project. According to DRDO, the missile can challenge weapons of its class.

Nirbhay blasts off like a rocket and unlike a missile, it turns into a vehicle akin an aircraft. Flying at tree-top level, it can deceive enemy radars making it difficult to be detected. Unlike other ballistic missiles, this cruise missile has wings and distinct tail fins. After reaching near the target area, it can hover around, hitting at its will from any direction.

Key points:
1) RM has given the project till June 2018 to deliver. About 18 months time. Needs that much to identify the root cause and any other deficiencies put the effective corrective action into place.
Root cause is that cause by fixing it will prevent the recurrence of the fault. So far Nirbhay had 3 flight failures from the above news report:1st, 3rd and 4th. Its possible that each had a separate cause.
2) An independent failure investigation team(FIT) has been placed. Led by experts outside the project. its possible the project has its own FIT which is working since the failure was detected.
3) So far three causes are being identified: a) defective hardware from RCI, b) defective software from ADE and new one of 3) deficiency in metallurgy.

I think all three will be examined in detail and fixes recommended.
There is potential that these fixes could be band aids.
Also I wish a through systems engineering look at the project is taken.
E.g. Error budgets, requirements, verification and validation and are the interfaces robust and well defined?

This could bring up latent defects that shown up in testing done so far.

The cruise missile came about in the early 1970s with a advent of low thrust turbofan engines and guidance systems that allowed a inexpensive aero-vehicle to be developed which could evade radar. And deliver a hefty punch.

[Arjun Gupta]

Where is discussion on Paks babur 3 sub launched cruise missile?

[Philip]

Two reports which need to be read in conjunction,even though one is about the Sino-Pak nexus.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/18134/ ... HSUuNJ96M8

India Plans Test Of Nuclear-Tipped Submarine-Launched K-4 Missile
Our Bureau10:58 AM, January 9, 2017645 viewsK-4 nuclear capable Intermediate-range submarine-launched ballistic missile K-4 nuclear capable Intermediate-range submarine-launched ballistic missile - A +
India is contemplating testing its longest range submarine-launched K-4 ballistic missile that can deliver nuclear warhead from 3,500 km away.
Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is planning to conduct the test from an undersea platform in the Bay of Bengal by month-end, New Indian Express reported today.
The platform is being readied for the test. "If everything goes as per the program, the weapon system, which has drawn attention of enemy nations, will be tested as per schedule,” the official told ‘The Express’ on Sunday.
However, it is still uncertain if the missile will be test launched from a submerged Pontoon, which is replica of a submarine or else the home-made INS Arihant submarine.
The launch would be from a platform nearly 30 feet deep in the sea. Once the platform is ready, movement of tracking systems and naval ships to the area of mission will be made. This would be third test of the missile. The project was kept secret till its first test in March 2014 by DRDO which has designed and developed the missile. Morover, it also has to undergo few more developmental trials before being inducted in the armed forces.
The intermediate range submarine launched ballistic missile (SLBM) is about 12 metres tall with a diameter of 1.3. It weighs around 17 tonnes and can carry a warhead weighing up to 2,000 kg. The missile is powered by solid rocket propellant.
Related News

This appears to be a full range test in response to Sino-Paki mischief.

China To Help Pakistan Build Long-Range Ballistic Missiles If India Increases Production
Our Bureau12:27 AM, January 6, 2017683 viewsAgni-V ICBM Agni-V ICBM test firing (File photo) - A +
China will help Pakistan build more number of long-range missiles if India continues to increase the number of its missiles, Chinese local media reported.
"If the UN Security Council has no objection over this (ICBMs), let it be. The range of Pakistan's nuclear missiles will also see an increase," the state-run Global Times said in an editorial Thursday, hinting that China will help Pakistan come on par with India.
"If the Western countries accept India as a nuclear country and are indifferent to the nuclear race between India and Pakistan, China will not stand out and stick rigidly to those nuclear rules as necessary. At this time, Pakistan should have those privileges in nuclear development that India has," the editorial said.
"...Chinese don't feel India's development has posed any big threat to it. And India wouldn't be considered as China's main rival in the long run," the editorial first says.
"But it (China) will not sit still if India goes too far...New Delhi understands that it does little good to itself if the Sino-Indian relations are ruined by any geopolitical tricks," the editorial says later.
Aside from these issues, the editorial alleged that India "has broken the UN's limits" on how many nuclear weapons and long-range ballistic missiles it can produce.
"The US and some Western countries have also bent the rules on its nuclear plans. New Delhi is no longer satisfied with its nuclear capability and is seeking intercontinental ballistic missiles that can target anywhere in the world and then it can land on an equal footing with the UN Security Council's five permanent members," the editorial said

[JayS]

Also about that Chromium coating business to reduce drag, I don't know what is being said. the whole first stage where maximum drag occurs is slightly over a minute. So where does chromium coating help here?
If its during reentry then its ablative coating and will give off a large radar cross section with all that metal cloud, which is hardly desirable.

I think this is a college research project and is nice for studying ways to reduce drag.

In Re-entry. While in boost phase, temperatures are not high enough to activate ablative coatings.

In any case we are using Carbon-Carbon Composite nosetip for RV on Agni series which can withstand 6000K which means higher re-entry speeds. There seems to be use of Ablative technology as well in addition. So its a Hybrid design. Which probably means we can use high Balastic Coefficient RV but at the same time, RADAR signature would be less since Ablative coating is used in limited sense. Saw an article on unmentionable forum. Original Russian link not opening from office (many forum links blocked). Will post later.

Meanwhile if anyone can post links on more info on Agni RV technology, that would be great.

PS: Here is a Patent on Carbon-Carbon Composite with Ablative material for RV, by USAF. Its 1985 Patent, and I am guessing they must have had the tech much before than that.
https://google.com/patents/US4515847

[geeth]

Research Highlights

 

A new method to reduce drag of high speed space vehicles 

- Prof. K.P.J. Reddy, Aerospace Engineering

   A new innovative technology for increasing the range of high speed missiles such as recently launched Agni by reducing the drag encountered during its flight has been developed in the high enthalpy aerodynamics laboratory in the Dept. of Aerospace Engineering. The drag is the main phenomenon which dictates the range of the missile for a given amount of fuel as the thrust generated by the rocket engine must compensate for the drag encountered by the missile in its path. The nose of the missile is essentially blunted in order to reduce the heating problem but the drag encountered by the blunt bodies when they travel at hypersonic speeds (five to six times the speed of sound ~ 2km/s) is larger. Hence one way of increasing the range of the missile or any vehicle is to reduce the drag force. Existing techniques for reducing the drag force involve addition of an aerospike at the nose of the missile or blowing a supersonic gas jet from the missile nose tip. Implementation of these techniques involves major modification to the missile structure and hence can not be applied to existing missiles which are in stockpile. The new method involves a radically different technique in the sense that no additional device or power is required for controlling the aerodynamic drag in the proposed technique during the actual hypersonic flight. The technique is to coat the nose portion of the missile with a thin layer of material such as chromium. This metal coating evaporates due to the heating of the missile nose or vehicle during its hypersonic flight and the evaporated metal particles in atomic form react exothermically with the oxygen atoms surrounding the body to release additional heat into the air in front of the missile. This heat addition reduces the drag force up to about 47%. This method will ensure that without spending any additional energy the overall aerodynamic drag of the vehicle can be controlled and this in turn will improve the efficiency of the hypersonic flight of the vehicle. This is a very attractive technique for controlling aerodynamic drag of the vehicles flying at hypersonic Mach numbers.

   The main advantages of this innovative hypersonic drag control techniques are: (a) This is a completely passive device that is non-intrusive and does not need any additional power during the actual flight to control the aerodynamic drag of the missile flying at hypersonic speeds and (b) The amount of heat energy released into the shock layer of the body can be altered to suitably control the aerodynamic drag of the hypersonic vehicle

   The attractive features of the technique is expected to enhance the commercially viability of the technology. In addition, this technique will also be useful for the development space vehicles which consume lesser fuels and thus reduce the cost of space travel in the future. The details of the experiment have been reported in the recent September issue of Physics of Fluids journal.

http://www.iisc.ernet.in/researchhigh/drag.shtml

[Rakesh]

geeth: nice to see you are still on BRF.