Understanding US thread-III

[Gus]

DT tweet - If I increase tax on Mexican imports, only illegal Mexicans will pay for it. Smart!

[komal]

Japan is allegedly in economic decline for decades now yet the roads continue to best of breed, trains run to seconds mark and tfta stuff keeps churning out.....

Very good question, OT for this thread, surely. But CAN an economy function perfectly OK with zero rate of appreciation of its corporate stocks, and zero inflation? Why not? If everyone has jobs, decent middle class std of living, working as hard as they can, too busy to make any more babies than needed to replace themselves, why should there be a rate of stock price growth, hain??? (let me pause to as I think of MY pennies in Japanese stocks for the past 15 saal). Reach a balance. Zero trade deficit, 100% employment (OK, 99%). Isn't this the model of MahaBali? Of course he was done in by petty jealosy then and hired away to ********, but not because his policies were not working.

So could DT shoot for such a fine state? DOW flat. Inflation zero. Long-term interest rates 5% to keep retirees fed. Companies pay a healthy dividend each year too, maybe 8%. Trade deficit zero. Debt balance zero. The US is actually self-sufficient in nearly all resources.

Back to Japan and Germany. I think they make it much harder than US to sell anything there. The legend about "quality" is not all that accurate: German cars are pakistan for the most part in reliability. Not all cars made and sold in Japan are that stellar either. Their roads DO develop sinkholes - there was a recent article about a huge one opening up in Fukuoka (probably collapsed the roof of their extensive underground city) but they fixed it in like 24 hours or so. In the US it would have taken a month, in India a few.

You maybe right on the horrible nature of German engineering. But, alas, the markets disagree with you and the Donald. People are stupid. They all don't listen to Fox/and Rush. They actually believe German engineered cars a well built.

Alas, Trying to use government policy to regulate markets is losing proposition -- please read books like the "The Third Five Year Plan" by the Indian Planning Commission. The Ambassador was a model of engineering. But Nehru was unable to find export markets for it. Maybe the Donald will have better luck with the Ford Probe.

[Singha]

Er the ambassador was itself failed british design export to yindia.same as the wg30 deep strike helicopter and the redoubtable badal mbt

[A_Gupta]

The US should be running not a trade deficit but a trade surplus, as do the other two leading industrial powers, Japan and Germany

^^^ thats the mystery. All 3 are nearly same per capita income and hdi levels and life expectancy and tech levels and education

Strong-dollar policy.

[UlanBatori]

So if I understand correctly, you are saying that the President/Congress are entirely powerless to use any measures to protect domestic industry and workers? It is all useless onlee, we are like that onlee, it is all Maya? Why HAVE a governmebt at all? In the famous words of my co-denizen Pinakin C.,
"Jisko jitna chahiye,
Kaat-kaat le jayiye."?

How did these doctors survive before there were Mexican Bimmers? Incidentally, Mexican Bimmers are too lo-class for doctors and lawyers, they are 3xxx series small cars. The big tubs are made in SC, or imported directly from the Black Forest. Those tariffs are yet to come, the 'Zee's hands are getting tired from all that signing and tweeting. Mexican bimmers are mostly aimed at those hu want 2 b seen driving a Bimmer, paying Dodge Neon prices. So it is the Neons that are affected.

Every action has some collateral damage. The Procrastinator will hesitate because 1% is going to be collateral. But if 90 percent of the buckshot hits the butt of the target, and 10% gets spread around, I think active leaders are going to take that shot. Crazy ones are going to take the shot at 50% target, 50% collateral. Pakis will hit the soosai switch at 100% self, 10% hated outsiders. I am not sure where the 'Zee is on that scale.

As for WarMalt, I hear u, birather. Buying US-made purses is no deal at all. Maybe it will create a market for Indian made ones. Same for suitcases. backpacks, mostly everything I own.

And.. no, sorry, I don't listen to lush rimbaugh. Ask our dear friend TSJi if u want the latest wisdom from there.

[Singha]

Strong dollah buying up more goods cheap from east asian debased currency is fine and dandy for white collah folks who have dollah. Mcmansion, boundless cheap food, beema parked in driveway...high std of living to make sdre yindu feel zealous..kids in line for taap univ and then job in sv or nyc or medical skool

What about those who lost the means to earn strong dollah or even hope their kids gen do?
These guys solidly voted for mahdiji

Shtrong dollah is for shtrong families onlee

Now cheap dollah will help usa exports incl even more weapons....i could use a fleet of 100 jsf for i.n. yesterday

[UlanBatori]

I have never understood this "strong dolah" or "cheap rupee" argument. The fluctuations in value are like max 5% hain? An American-made handbag costs $100. I can buy the same/better quality at WarMalt, Made In China, for $18 (Wish I could say Made In India..). I don't make that decision because of a 5% variation, it's more than a factor of 5! So the dolah would have to come down to say Rs. 10 before those costs become competitive.

[komal]

So if I understand correctly, you are saying that the President/Congress are entirely powerless to use any measures to protect domestic industry and workers? It is all useless onlee, we are like that onlee, it is all Maya? Why HAVE a governmebt at all? In the famous words of my co-denizen Pinakin C.,
"Jisko jitna chahiye,
Kaat-kaat le jayiye."?

Sorry, but I am of the generation of South Indians that was programmed since pre-natal times to abhor Hindi. So I don't understand your last phrase.

Imposing tariffs will 'protect' domestic industry and those workers in those industries. But tariffs alone do little for economic growth. The USA imposed tariffs at the end of the Civil War to protect domestic industry. But that was accompanied by massive government spending (railroads, canals), education projects (land grant universities), and massive immigration. They also stole land from the Indians (not Bharat). Greatest economic growth rate the world has ever seen.

Nehru imposed tariffs also spent extravagantly and stole land from the Indians (alas from Bharat) And the massive immigration was from the erstwhile East Pakistan. Not even the greatest growth rate in the history of his own family.

[Zynda]

Google calls staffers back to US after Trump order on immigration, report says

Google called on its employees who may be affected by President Trump’s immigration order to get back to the U.S. as soon as possible, according to a report published Saturday.

Bloomberg obtained a copy of a memo from the company’s CEO, Sundar Pichai.

"It’s painful to see the personal cost of this executive order on our colleagues," Pichai wrote. "We’ve always made our view on immigration issues known publicly and will continue to do so."

An unidentified source told Bloomberg that the concern is that employees from one of the seven countries that Trump identified may not be allowed back in to the U.S., even if that person has a valid visa.

"We are advising our clients from those seven countries who have green cards or any type of H-1B visa not to travel outside the U.S." Ava Benach, a partner at immigration law firm Benach Collopy LLP, said in the report. “No one is really sure whether a green card holder from these seven countries can return to the U.S. now. It’s fairly clear that an H-1B visa holder can’t," Benach said.

[Zynda]

Aren't GC holders already vetted by FBI/DHS? I know DT had expressed doubts about the quality of scrutiny by agencies under Obama admin, but that was for refugee/asylum applicants onlee...the above is quite possible an over reaction by Google unkle...

[UlanBatori]

IMO (optimistically speaking) all that is going to happen is a very minor adjustment, and some rethinking on the part of CEOs who would otherwise join Ross Perot's "whoosh sucking sound" and move manufacturing to Mexico.
With present Wall Street pressures, what else can a CEO do to keep her job? So now DT throws in a scare and an Appeal to Patriotism. A corporate Board that votes to expel a CEO for refusing to move operations to Mexico, is now going to have some tough community (and govt) reaction to contend with.

As job growth returns, so will spending, and so will demand for Purses made in China and Bimmers made in Mexico. But DT had to do something, that is his mandate. He is at most sticking his (big tweeting) finger in the dike to keep the leak from becoming a tidal wave. Comparisons to India 1960s /70s are not apt.

OTOH, look at gas prices. Below $2/gal already. Dropped like 12 percent in 1 week. I think that is looking at the expected rise in fracking production. So low energy costs, some minimal time-buying due to DT scare, may be all that US industry needs to reboot. The old jobs are not coming back. Challenge is to put the Ring Of Production out of business with new industry and new technology. That takes a few years, and good government support.

For Pessimistic Scenarios CNN is always available.

[UlanBatori]

"We are advising our clients from those seven countries who have green cards or any type of H-1B visa not to travel outside the U.S." Ava Benach, a partner at immigration law firm Benach Collopy LLP, said in the report. “No one is really sure whether a green card holder from these seven countries can return to the U.S. now. It’s fairly clear that an H-1B visa holder can’t," Benach said.

"Extreme vetting" is for all visa holders, not just refugees and new applicants?

O I c!!

Trump banned citizens of seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the US for at least the next 90 days.
The executive order bars all people hailing from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen -- or at least 134 million people, based on 2013 World Bank census data -- from entering the United States. Those countries were named in a 2016 law concerning immigration visas as "countries of concern."
But the executive order also makes clear those seven countries are just a starting point for a likely broader ban.
The order exempts diplomats and members of international organizations from the ban.

The order also directs the secretary of Homeland Security to conduct a 30-day review to determine which countries do not provide "adequate information" for its citizens to be issued visas to enter the US.
During the campaign, Trump talked about these countries as "terror-prone" countries. During the GOP primary campaign, he called for banning all Muslims from the US -- a statement he never retracted -- before shifting toward calling for banning individuals from countries with terrorist links, though he never specified the countries.

[abhik]

^^^^^
Just looked up the top 10 exports of Mexico yearly taken from Nov. 2016. They are:
1. Vehicles: US$90.4 billion (23.7% of total exports)
....

Quite an eye opener, the Mexicans export more vehicles than the Koreans ($62b) and comparable to the Japanese ($132b) exports.

[kiranA]

As far as I know domestic "industry" did not ask for any protection. They ask for freer immigration, more opening of other country borders while keeping US borders open. Its domestic workers who are asking for protection of their jobs no matter what their productivity is.

[csaurabh]

I just had an insight into Trump movement in the USA.

It is a revolt of the American 'shudras' against American 'vaishyas', 'kshatriyas' and 'brahmanas'.

In 1970, a normal American 'shudra' was a blue collar factory worker who had a well paid reasonably good job, a simple one, like operating a lathe machine or welding. From that point on, it really went downhill from there. First, large amounts of factory work was outsourced to China and Mexico ( and other countries ). After that, technologies changed so much that a normal person with not much education could not really fit into them. Then everything got automated, so the modern factory does not require huge armies of workers.

It might be instructive to remember that vast amounts of US military industrial complex were made 'by hand'. Injector holes for Apollo rockets were drilled by hand, turbopumps for the rockets had parts welded together by hand. All these things are on record. Those who worked on them still remember it. American shudra handmade technology was considered good enough to land man on the moon. Now, everyone would want to do this stuff with CNC machines and computer controlled electron beam welding. The American shudra is being told that he's not good enough, or irrelevant.

American vaishyas ( investment bankers, MBAs, consultants, etc. ) screwed over the shudras by outsourcing everything to China and other countries. They made finance so complicated that in effect Wall Street fleeces the productive economy.

American brahmanas ( scientists, engineers, programmers, academics ) screwed over the shudras by automating everything and making the handmade work irrelevant. Furthermore, the ivory tower humanities type brahmanas have come up with insulting solutions- asking them to get low wage jobs at Walmart or to get hi-fi college degrees ( which everyone has neither aptitude nor money for ).

American Kshatriyas ( soldiers and administrators ) spent tons of money on wars that have no obvious benefit and came up with policies that don't benefit them at all.

The resentment of the American shudras against Wall street (vaishyas), Silicon Valley (brahmanas) and Washington DC(kshatriyas) reached boiling point. Adding to this of course is the rise of feminism and the total collapse of family system in the west.

Trump may rail against China and Mexico and promise to drain the swamp at Washington DC. But really what is he going to do about automation. AI and advanced robotics are poised to take millions of jobs in the near future. There won't be more factory workers, there'll be less. Obviously, we can't roll back the tide of technology and go back to the 1960s. This will be difficult to solve.

[Singha]

Unlike the euros and japan, usa is still saddled with a large and growing population swelled by illegal migration.
Germany and Japan can go ai and automation they dont have hordes of workers to find jobs for

Therein i suppose is a big problem. Stopping illegal and legal migration from all over might slow and then reverse the population growth

[chanakyaa]

Very good question, OT for this thread, surely. But CAN an economy function perfectly OK with zero rate of appreciation of its corporate stocks, and zero inflation? Why not? If everyone has jobs, decent middle class std of living, working as hard as they can, too busy to make any more babies than needed to replace themselves, why should there be a rate of stock price growth, hain??? (let me pause to as I think of MY pennies in Japanese stocks for the past 15 saal). Reach a balance. Zero trade deficit, 100% employment (OK, 99%). Isn't this the model of MahaBali? Of course he was done in by petty jealosy then and hired away to ********, but not because his policies were not working.

So could DT shoot for such a fine state? DOW flat. Inflation zero. Long-term interest rates 5% to keep retirees fed. Companies pay a healthy dividend each year too, maybe 8%. Trade deficit zero. Debt balance zero. The US is actually self-sufficient in nearly all resources.
...

Zero Inflation and 5% long-term interest rate, and companies paying 8% dividends, and zero appreciation (and depreciation) of Corporate stock? Haha..here is how to get rich in such a Alice in Wonderland economy. Borrow unlimited money by borrowing long-term at 5% and put your money in some index corporate stock at 8% dividend for a net difference of free money at 3%. Now imagine what happens to 5% and 8% when everyone tries to do the same thing. On a serious note, numbers and assumptions seriously contradict each other. For example, if the inflation is zero, what does long term rate of 5% mean, other than sincere objective of getting blessings of retirees?

[chanakyaa]

^^^^^
Just looked up the top 10 exports of Mexico yearly taken from Nov. 2016. They are:
1. Vehicles: US$90.4 billion (23.7% of total exports)
....

Quite an eye opener, the Mexicans export more vehicles than the Koreans ($62b) and comparable to the Japanese ($132b) exports.

Wait a sec, Koreans export Korean cars, Mexico exports cars on behalf of American, German, Japanese etc. companies...no??

[ldev]

The US should be running not a trade deficit but a trade surplus, as do the other two leading industrial powers, Japan and Germany

^^^ thats the mystery. All 3 are nearly same per capita income and hdi levels and life expectancy and tech levels and education

The USD is the international reserve currency in which most cross country settlements are denominated. This became defacto when Nixon abolished USD convertibility to gold in 1973. As such it became mandatory after that for other countries to have large reserves of USD. The primary mechanism for other countries to accumulate USD reserves is via the US running a trade deficit/current account deficit/fiscal deficit and/or a combination of all 3. Check out those figures since 1973. Maybe the US ran a marginal surplus one year since then. But regularly before that. For the US to run surpluses regularly you'd have to rejig the global monetary system.

[komal]

IMO (optimistically speaking) all that is going to happen is a very minor adjustment, and some rethinking on the part of CEOs who would otherwise join Ross Perot's "whoosh sucking sound" and move manufacturing to Mexico.
With present Wall Street pressures, what else can a CEO do to keep her job? So now DT throws in a scare and an Appeal to Patriotism. A corporate Board that votes to expel a CEO for refusing to move operations to Mexico, is now going to have some tough community (and govt) reaction to contend with.

As job growth returns, so will spending, and so will demand for Purses made in China and Bimmers made in Mexico. But DT had to do something, that is his mandate. He is at most sticking his (big tweeting) finger in the dike to keep the leak from becoming a tidal wave. Comparisons to India 1960s /70s are not apt.

OTOH, look at gas prices. Below $2/gal already. Dropped like 12 percent in 1 week. I think that is looking at the expected rise in fracking production. So low energy costs, some minimal time-buying due to DT scare, may be all that US industry needs to reboot. The old jobs are not coming back. Challenge is to put the Ring Of Production out of business with new industry and new technology. That takes a few years, and good government support.

For Pessimistic Scenarios CNN is always available.

Of course, long-term interest rates have risen by more than 100 basis points since the election. Those pesky slant eyes don't waste time making brave stands on Twitter. They dump U. S. Treasury bonds/notes to effectively create a tax increase for all Americans (well only those who pay taxes).

And, no, that news was not on CNN. And I don't think DT even knows that rates have gone up so much.

[UlanBatori]

There goes another bright idea. How does (did) KSA and Gelf economies thrive, By the Benevolence of ATM, b4 they got the bright ideas of conquering the shia? Interest is haraam in the Shariah economy hain? How do they generate income (I mean by legitimate ways, not trading yezidi girls, Afghan boys etc).

[Arjun]

no restriction on Indian emigration?? Would anyone in India stay behind, then??

I should have phrased it as 'no restriction on current growth trend in Indian immigration to the US'. Indian Americans need to grow over next few decades to be at least 3% of US population, as opposed to 1% today.

[UlanBatori]

I just had an insight into Trump movement in the USA.
It is a revolt of the American 'shudras' against American 'vaishyas', 'kshatriyas' and 'brahmanas'.
The American shudra is being told that he's not good enough, or irrelevant.
American vaishyas ( investment bankers, MBAs, consultants, etc. ) screwed over the shudras by outsourcing everything to China and other countries. They made finance so complicated that in effect Wall Street fleeces the productive economy.

Saurabhji, an absolutely brilliant post. I need to print that out and stick it over my work desk. Oh wait! My work desk these days is mostly an armchair with a laptop computer: i don't HAVE a desk except to make coffee.
You have outlined the problem exactly. The old jobs are not coming back. But 'we' need to define what replaces them so that people can again have decent standard of living, some measure of job security, satisfaction and portability with robust demand and upward mobility.

Let me add a few more points:
1. The problem with automation's pace of progress is that the advances in education, going from information-based to knowledge-based etc., simply could not keep pace. Way too fast, jobs required the hated MATH, which opened the door for DOOs for instance on a massive scale. From places where people who had education were starving for want of any job at all. Or micro-fabrication and assembly, for which Chinese noodle fingers were much better suited than American beefsteak ones. The former assembly line mechanic did not overnight become a Robot Designer, able to figure out 6-DOF kinematics in their heads.
They were relegated to the jobs which could be done by "re-training". Like reprogramming a robot. Out went the Dignity of Labor concepts.

2. Worldwide, as barriers came down, there was more and more Relaxation to Equilibrium. Liquids finding their level everywhere. Gases filling voids and equalizing pressure. Suddenly, the "retrainable" jobs could be better done by someone paid a tenth of what the American worker needed to maintain their standard of living (mostly the medical costs needed to pay for all those Porsches and mansions by the lakes).

3. This "equilibration" appears to have no end. Baby production is outstripping job creation, so there is no tightening of supply to drive wages and respect back up.

So now we have a reaction in the US. Is it as futile as trying to command the tide to go back? Or do the billionaires have a plan that will work?

Let me tell you one reason for hope. The resources that we fight over on Earth, are like 0.000000001% of what's out there in the Near Solar System. It's just how to expand to include all that in the Economy - at a huge scale compared to today. Don't sell your terrestrial property yet. The Martians may be willing to put in a huge bid on it.

But seriously, this dramatic shift and rethinking of the technical economy, is the trademark of American innovation. I just don't see where it is coming from this time, but I didn't see it the last time or the time before either. Just don't count the Yankees out yet.

[UlanBatori]

In all this, v r forgetting 2 things:
1. DT, Debate 1, saying that right after BO leaves, stock market will tank. He didn't follow that up much, but I notice that he has "divested" a lot.

2. If u were the Caliph Abu Bugger ul DeirEzZori sitting in Riyadh, wouldn't you be sorely tempted to show up the Newly Secured US of A and its loud POTUS? I think the danger of a massive terror attack is today at bright flashing red level. Airplanes used to be the victims of choice, to kill 300-500 at one shot. But now it's probably too difficult in most places, esp. US.

Which, to my thinking, leaves one thing: an enclosed stadium with 80,000 ppl. I think there's such an event coming up. Hope the security folks there are as paranoid as I am.

[LokeshC]

^^^^^
Just looked up the top 10 exports of Mexico yearly taken from Nov. 2016. They are:
1. Vehicles: US$90.4 billion (23.7% of total exports)
....

Quite an eye opener, the Mexicans export more vehicles than the Koreans ($62b) and comparable to the Japanese ($132b) exports.

Actually automotive and aerospace are some of the top industries in Mehico.

I did not believe it until I saw it myself.

[saip]

Even Green Card holders are NOT being allowed to enter USA from the seven Muslim countries listed in the Trump's Exec Order. I am just wondering if this ban applies to naturalized citizens too?

[UlanBatori]

Naturalized citjen is citjen. No discrimination allowed based on birth etc. But the kind immigrashun aphsar will pooch: "which countries you been to?" and the answer may bring on the "extreme vetting". They do ask that, u know..

BTW, am I the only one hu noticed? The Pakistan passport is finally going to be in great demand in the Ummah. All those 20,000 blanks that Gen. Durrani stashed away while Amby to Dubai, can now be sold at a handsome profit. What a great come-back!

1 month ago, they would see a Pakistan passport and immediately diss the bearer. Now it's going to be: "AoA! Welcome to the USA. What would you like to inflate first?"

[A_Gupta]

I have never understood this "strong dolah" or "cheap rupee" argument. The fluctuations in value are like max 5% hain? An American-made handbag costs $100. I can buy the same/better quality at WarMalt, Made In China, for $18 (Wish I could say Made In India..). I don't make that decision because of a 5% variation, it's more than a factor of 5! So the dolah would have to come down to say Rs. 10 before those costs become competitive.

You're thinking of the wrong set of manufactures. Germany & Japan are not manufacturing powerhouses because of their handbag production.

The handbag, garment and such industries were going to move out of the US of A anyway. But the article I quoted before has an estimate that if the US followed German policies, it would have 5-6 million more manufacturing jobs than it does today.

[KJo]

Islamists and Islam pasands in the US are going tauba tauba that the new laws will "inflame passions in Islamic countries". Finally there is someone who has belled the cat at least to some extent. Why are people so worried and scared about angry Muslims? Dhimmis are everywhere. Will Modi take some pro-Hindu moves or is he waiting to get some other things done? Time will tell.

[TSJones]

I have never understood this "strong dolah" or "cheap rupee" argument. The fluctuations in value are like max 5% hain? An American-made handbag costs $100. I can buy the same/better quality at WarMalt, Made In China, for $18 (Wish I could say Made In India..). I don't make that decision because of a 5% variation, it's more than a factor of 5! So the dolah would have to come down to say Rs. 10 before those costs become competitive.

You're thinking of the wrong set of manufactures. Germany & Japan are not manufacturing powerhouses because of their handbag production.

The handbag, garment and such industries were going to move out of the US of A anyway. But the article I quoted before has an estimate that if the US followed German policies, it would have 5-6 million more manufacturing jobs than it does today.

the oligarchs in the US do not take the long view. short term profits are paramount. Japan has opposite thinking to this.

also, in the US labor is an expense that is to be minimized at every opportunity. Germany does not view labor as a necessary evil so to speak. they do job sharing with extensive apprenticeship development programs. labor is almost considered an asset by them with hard won on the job experience.

what germany has also done is to off load social benefits to the government. health and retirement is the purview of the entire nation not the employer. it is all paid for by vat taxes.

what? no crying for the poor german consumer? how cruel!

the average german income is not as high as the average US income but that could be be due to cultural reasons,

for instance, the germans crank down the trees and roll up the sidewalks every saturday afternoon. no more 'selling until monday morning, thank you very much and have a nice day until then. hasta la vista baby! .....as they say in germany I think.

[IndraD]

Even Green Card holders are NOT being allowed to enter USA from the seven Muslim countries listed in the Trump's Exec Order. I am just wondering if this ban applies to naturalized citizens too?

yes an Iranian settled with a French passport will not be allowed to fly into US.

[LokeshC]

Naturalized citjen is citjen. No discrimination allowed based on birth etc

A naturalized citizen can be denaturalized and stripped of citizenship.

[IndraD]

AFP news agency ‏@AFP 35m35 minutes ago
More
#BREAKING Putin and Trump agree to develop relations 'as equals': Kremlin

US ceding space to Ru.

[IndraD]

Reuters

The new Republican president on Friday put a four-month hold on allowing refugees into the United States and temporarily barred travelers from Syria and six other Muslim-majority countries. He said the moves would protect Americans from terrorism, in a swift and stern delivery on a campaign promise.

The ban affects travelers with passports from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen and extends to green card holders who are legal permanent residents of the United States.

Arab travelers in the Middle East and North Africa said the order was humiliating and discriminatory. It drew widespread criticism from U.S. Western allies including France and Germany, Arab-American groups and human rights organizations.

Iran condemned the order as an "open affront against the Muslim world and the Iranian nation" and vowed to retaliate. Of the seven countries targeted, Iran sends the most visitors to the United States each year - around 35,000 in 2015, according to the Department of Homeland Security.

The ban extends to green card holders who are authorized to live and work in the United States, Homeland Security spokeswoman Gillian Christensen said.

It was unclear how many legal permanent residents would be affected. A senior U.S. administration official said on Saturday that green card holders from the seven affected countries have to be cleared into the United States on a case-by-case basis.

[komal]

Reuters

The new Republican president on Friday put a four-month hold on allowing refugees into the United States and temporarily barred travelers from Syria and six other Muslim-majority countries. He said the moves would protect Americans from terrorism, in a swift and stern delivery on a campaign promise.

The ban affects travelers with passports from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen and extends to green card holders who are legal permanent residents of the United States.

Arab travelers in the Middle East and North Africa said the order was humiliating and discriminatory. It drew widespread criticism from U.S. Western allies including France and Germany, Arab-American groups and human rights organizations.

Iran condemned the order as an "open affront against the Muslim world and the Iranian nation" and vowed to retaliate. Of the seven countries targeted, Iran sends the most visitors to the United States each year - around 35,000 in 2015, according to the Department of Homeland Security.

The ban extends to green card holders who are authorized to live and work in the United States, Homeland Security spokeswoman Gillian Christensen said.

It was unclear how many legal permanent residents would be affected. A senior U.S. administration official said on Saturday that green card holders from the seven affected countries have to be cleared into the United States on a case-by-case basis.

Of course, the Brave Man of Twitter doesn't have the cajones to ban anyone from Pakistan or KSA. The humiliation of the USA continues.

[IndraD]

British citizens travelling to America on UK passports will be blocked from entering if they have dual-citizenship with countries targeted in Donald Trump's refugees banned.

[Gus]

Of course, the Brave Man of Twitter doesn't have the cajones to ban anyone from Pakistan or KSA. The humiliation of the USA continues.

it was excused here as 'but they will look for urdu speakers among them' or some such logic that i could not wrap my head around.

i mean ombaba was pussy for not saying 'islamic terrorism'. and what is trump for saying 'countries that have TREMENDOUS TERROR' and not mention ksa/pak

[A_Gupta]

{Wiki} "The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda. 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia, and the others were from the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Lebanon."

Orlando, June 12, 2016 - Omar Mateen - Afghan parents, but born in the US of A.
San Bernardino, California, December 14, 2015 - Farook and Tashfeen Malik - Pakistani immigrants.
Chattanooga, Tennessee, July 16, 2015 - Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez - immigrant born in Kuwait to Palestinian-Jordanian parents.
Garland, Texas, May 3, 2015 - Elton Simpson - American-born; Nadir Soofi - born in the US of A of Pakistani + American parents; Abdul Kareem - American-born.
Boston, Massachusetts, April 15, 2013. Tamerlan and Dhozkar Tsarnaev - Chechen/Avar immigrants.
Fort Hood, Texas, November 5, 2009. Major Nidal Malik Hasan - born in the US of A of Palestinian parents.
Little Rock, Arkansas, June 1, 2009. Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad - American-born.
etc.

[UlanBatori]

The criterion is from what I see, whether the country in question has a thorough vetting program. IOW whether they have a GUBO program where the US can find out plenty about the citjens of that country. KSA and Pakistan, certainly, fall in the GUBO category. Iran, Syria Yemen etc. don't. This may be a case of closing the stable door long after the donkeys have bolted or in this case entered, but better late than never I suppose. The thing about blocking GC holders for 4 months is cruel and needless: they were vetted when they got the GC, so they are less likely to be soosai inflators than the native-born sh1t-headed ISIS citjens. This is a huge boo boo and blind spot of the administration.

[Singha]

Usa has deep probe gubo access in tsp to vet travellers in karachi itself. They dont leave tsp airspace if red flagged. All passport data is run through usa databases.

This was done after 911