Understanding US thread-III

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Feb 2017 08:22

rajya sabha tactics

nyt

WASHINGTON — Democrats on the Senate Finance Committee sought to stall the confirmations of Steven Mnuchin and Tom Price, President Trump’s picks for Treasury secretary and secretary of health and human services, by refusing to attend scheduled votes on Tuesday.

As Mr. Trump’s dramatic firing of his acting attorney general threw the capital into tumult, Democrats on Tuesday also seized on the contentiousness to try to block Senator Jeff Sessions’s nomination as attorney general because they said he was too close to Mr. Trump.

In describing their tactic of boycotting the votes on nominees to treasury and to health and human services, Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon said that recent news reports suggested Mr. Mnuchin and Mr. Price had given false statements in their nomination hearings. He said more information was needed before making judgments about the nominees.

“We have made clear that we need additional information,” Mr. Wyden said.

Senator Debbie Stabenow, Democrat of Michigan, assailed the nominees for failing to be honest with the committee.

“The truth matters,” she said. “That’s not what has been happening here.”

Republicans expressed dismay at the delay. “I think this is a completely unprecedented level of obstruction,” said Senator Patrick J. Toomey, Republican from Pennsylvania.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 01 Feb 2017 08:56

UlanBatori wrote:Trump to "work with pharma companies" to cut drug prices
Now Playing: Trump sinks drug stocks

Pharma stocks kicked butt today Saar....

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 01 Feb 2017 09:29

KJo wrote:It's the same here. When US citizens pay taxes here, there is no reason why the market should be damaged by people from abroad on fake grounds like "not enough talented people here". The people replacing others are not more skilled, they are just cheap. Companies post fake jobs just so that they can pay someone else low.

Looks like you don't understand simple supply and demand economics. If there is an oversupply of talented folks in comparison with demand - the price for them falls - if not it stays high. The price for talent in the US is high because there is not enough talent in the US to meet the demand - and that is where getting in talent from abroad helps.

Immigration of smart people has helped the US a lot and I hope that continues. But screwing of US citizens by these companies and stealing of tax breaks needs to stop. Let's admit it... most of these hiring of foreign nations is solely to be cheap, nothing to do with talent.

What you view as talent is purely relative. If I have a degree from an elite institution (which I do) and you don't - then I may well look down upon you and say with some basis that you are not as talented as I am and do not deserve to be in the US. But that is not how the system works - the level of talent required needs to be just commensurate with the job on hand.

In the ultimate analysis - India has more smart folks than the US purely because of demographics - and for the same reason, the price of these talented folks is less in India than in the US.

Also, the very fact that Indian Americans who have mostly come in through the H1B route - are today the smartest, best educated and highest income community in the US validates the talent that is coming into the US from India.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Feb 2017 09:30

disha wrote:Working in 3+ countries does not automatically qualify you as a manager., but if you are not in one of those Sr. Manager+ categories but you are a manager with 3+ country experience then L1A can apply.

One more thing to remember is that "Manager" need not be managing people. It could be a manager managing a function as well. Or at least that was the rule several years back.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 01 Feb 2017 09:38

I have yet to see H1B person whose non H1B replacement I could not find. I also was not impressed enough to say that there was a need for importation of skills. Agree with KJo in that the behavior of many is outright appalling. And yes I do not like to see impression of browns in general due to these bad apples. They come and go but we do stay here. On these very forum, I have read many mention about new IT Vity guys earning in India who did not deserve what they were getting. The same applies to H1s. Yes, there are loopholes that people exploit. And nothing wrong with it. Trump himself has said the same thing about the tax laws. However, the line I see many crossing is openly flaunting about it and showing off. There are some who can do it and there are some who should not. IMO, H1s fall under the later category. Do not paint the red target behind your back by attracting attention.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Feb 2017 10:20

Gus wrote:why is it the responsibility of the US Govt/taxpayer to take care of people who took loans for Masters?

-

The US govt actively invites people to study and it is fundamentally unfair to invite students to study under certain set of rules (like x years of OPT) and then change it suddenly to y years.

Gus: It is becoming harder and harder to get a job on OPT. If one can't find a job, then one has to go back. Market forces and all that.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 01 Feb 2017 10:24

matrimc wrote:
disha wrote:Working in 3+ countries does not automatically qualify you as a manager., but if you are not in one of those Sr. Manager+ categories but you are a manager with 3+ country experience then L1A can apply.
One more thing to remember is that "Manager" need not be managing people. It could be a manager managing a function as well. Or at least that was the rule several years back.

What is the min salary to qualify for this?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Feb 2017 10:46

afaik there is none. or maybe 60k

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 01 Feb 2017 10:50

matrimc wrote:
Gus wrote:why is it the responsibility of the US Govt/taxpayer to take care of people who took loans for Masters?

-

The US govt actively invites people to study and it is fundamentally unfair to invite students to study under certain set of rules (like x years of OPT) and then change it suddenly to y years.
Gus: It is becoming harder and harder to get a job on OPT. If one can't find a job, then one has to go back. Market forces and all that.

When IT jobs get harder to find, its probably a sign there is a recession around the corner. Brace for layoffs and more rhona-dhona about how Indians are stealing the Americans' jobs.

Or may be the Americans have wizened up and started studying STEM.

Or companies panicked by all the anti H1 noise and started off shoring.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 01 Feb 2017 11:11

hanumadu wrote:
matrimc wrote:
Gus: It is becoming harder and harder to get a job on OPT. If one can't find a job, then one has to go back. Market forces and all that.
When IT jobs get harder to find, its probably a sign there is a recession around the corner. Brace for layoffs and more rhona-dhona about how Indians are stealing the Americans' jobs.

Or may be the Americans have wizened up and started studying STEM.

Or companies panicked by all the anti H1 noise and started off shoring.

Or there have been too many people coming in the past few years.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 01 Feb 2017 11:19

On the question of H1s causing wage depression, the median salary of all occupations in the US is 36K.
The median salary of software engineers is 100K. Non software engineers complain about being priced out of entire cities and neighbor hoods because they cannot afford the rents. If anything there should be more wage depression.

On the question of H1s stealing American jobs, when was the last time you heard about an American losing his job and not finding one again. It was only in the immediate after math of the sub prime crisis and before that dot com bubble. The reason they lost their jobs is because of recession not foreign workers.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Feb 2017 15:20

the IT sector was growing - it could absorb more workers with the right skills
steel, auto, in the rustbelt shrunk
that's where the rage is

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Feb 2017 17:23

X posted from the political thread

Look at what Trump said at Oprah's show over 25 years ago. It's eerie.

VIDEO Uncovered Trump Interview From Over 25 Years Ago Will Shock A Lot of People

https://www.youtube.com/embed/MOKi5YeNtRI

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Feb 2017 17:43

Arjun wrote: Looks like you don't understand simple supply and demand economics.

Arjunji, namaste etc. but in Ulan Bator we find that the local bog (slang for pakistan) is full of feet sticking out. Those are the people who rushed in saying "looks like u don't understand" or "check your facts!" etc and fell in head-first. "Me Mate has fallen in the bog" as the Irishman said, "and he's all the way in up to his ankles") U might find some examples of such feet, since put back in mouth, even on this dhaga.

Let me tell u a story, from back in 2003. Internet market crashed. Tens of thousands of US computer jobs vanished along with the companies that employed them.

But when the market recovered, the jobs had moved to ..... INDIA!!! And so, people who were making 100K could no longer find jobs above 35K. Why? Lack of "talent"? Work ethic? No. Because there were plenty of Indians happy to work for less than 35K even after all the fees etc were taken out. Did that magic formula for "cost-cutting" work? No, but it generated even more demand for Indian DOOs because the work being done was so full of errors that they needed orders of magnitude more cost to fix those. What you don't get when you pay peanuts, is quality and care, most of the time at least, no offence to the super-brains here. The HR bozos could not see any difference between "software engineer" and "software engineer" though one might be a 3.5GPA MS grad from Ulan Bator Madarssa, the top-ranked in IT, and a 35% Pass from Raju's Global Software Training and Typing Institute in Parukuttyppuram. Their mission was to Cut Cost.

Even at Boeing in 2004 they were trying this - and got some interesting comments from knowledgeable people on the wisdom of hiring engineers using HR mgrs used to hiring (never mind).

Also, the very fact that Indian Americans who have mostly come in through the H1B route - are today the smartest, best educated and highest income community in the US validates the talent that is coming into the US from India.

A bit questionable. I think there used to be, at least, a category called "Alien of Exceptional Ability" which is the one under which many desi tech types got GC in the days before "Y2K".

Or doctors. Or real-estate bijnejppl who keep 2Lacs in 1000-rupee notes locked under their pillows.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 01 Feb 2017 18:05

^
I my line of work there is no difference between Brown or White workers. Everyone makes the same amount of money for the same job, the Brown probably more because he often works harder. When the market goes down (insurance and other payors drop their rates), the earnings drop equally for everyone. There is intense competition in major metros esp along the Boston-DC corridor but people find a place, much like how in a crowded train in India you still find a place to stand and gradually manage to find a seat as well.

Apart from basic degree/training/licensing requirements there is nothing that separates the 'good' from the 'bad'. Often the less talented guy makes more money because he is smarter in the ways of making it and works that much harder. In my profession, it is not so much 'ability' as it is 'availability' and 'affability' that determines success.

In the IT world, is there a basic test/license requirement? How does the hiring company know this guy can do the job, other than the word of the recruitment agency? Is there an established hierarchy of institutions (like IIT or IIM) that guarantee a certain level of competence? Sorry, don't know much about the industry.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 01 Feb 2017 18:23

Arjun wrote:
KJo wrote:It's the same here. When US citizens pay taxes here, there is no reason why the market should be damaged by people from abroad on fake grounds like "not enough talented people here". The people replacing others are not more skilled, they are just cheap. Companies post fake jobs just so that they can pay someone else low.
Looks like you don't understand simple supply and demand economics. If there is an oversupply of talented folks in comparison with demand - the price for them falls - if not it stays high. The price for talent in the US is high because there is not enough talent in the US to meet the demand - and that is where getting in talent from abroad helps.
Immigration of smart people has helped the US a lot and I hope that continues. But screwing of US citizens by these companies and stealing of tax breaks needs to stop. Let's admit it... most of these hiring of foreign nations is solely to be cheap, nothing to do with talent.
What you view as talent is purely relative. If I have a degree from an elite institution (which I do) and you don't - then I may well look down upon you and say with some basis that you are not as talented as I am and do not deserve to be in the US. But that is not how the system works - the level of talent required needs to be just commensurate with the job on hand.

In the ultimate analysis - India has more smart folks than the US purely because of demographics - and for the same reason, the price of these talented folks is less in India than in the US.

Also, the very fact that Indian Americans who have mostly come in through the H1B route - are today the smartest, best educated and highest income community in the US validates the talent that is coming into the US from India.

I will not waste my time clearing the fog you live in. Read UlanBator Saar's post 10 times. Enjoy onlee.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 01 Feb 2017 18:43

OPT has no pay slab restrictions for legal employment so it enables internship (with less pay) and a way to full time job after that..Wasn't that a popular route to land a job? It was in my days ...My first job was in OPT.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Feb 2017 18:43

Some useful reading about fake/false news and how we might be able to better distil it in the future

Fake news and fact-checking: Trump is demonstrating how to outsmart an AI

What we have in both cases* is a sort of quantum news. Whether by accident or design, these leaders generate a chaotic fog of confusion that leaves observers grappling with stories that are both true and false at the same time. Objective reality is a fleeting shadow that cannot be grasped, and what you believe becomes a function of whom you trust.

From here, the news devolves into mess of “he said, she said” claims and counterclaims; a game of bluff where the main objective of the politician is not to inform or communicate but to undermine. If you can’t trust reality then you can’t trust the people reporting on it either, so they become less and less relevant. Which is, of course, what the politician wants.

* case 1: Jeremy corbyn saying that he will/will not have a 3 line whip on MP's on the Brexit bill vote
* case 2: trump's muslim ban or was it a ban or was it about muslims? or what is a ban? is the word ban banned?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Feb 2017 20:57

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 2h2 hours ago
More
Everybody is arguing whether or not it is a BAN. Call it what you want, it is about keeping bad people (with bad intentions) out of country!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Feb 2017 21:40

^^^ that is specifically to dig spice boy out of the hole he's dug himself into in the press briefings

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Feb 2017 21:44

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 01 Feb 2017 23:04

UlanBatori wrote: Let me tell u a story, from back in 2003. Internet market crashed. Tens of thousands of US computer jobs vanished along with the companies that employed them.

But when the market recovered, the jobs had moved to ..... INDIA!!! And so, people who were making 100K could no longer find jobs above 35K. Why? Lack of "talent"? Work ethic? No. Because there were plenty of Indians happy to work for less than 35K even after all the fees etc were taken out. Did that magic formula for "cost-cutting" work? No, but it generated even more demand for Indian DOOs because the work being done was so full of errors that they needed orders of magnitude more cost to fix those. What you don't get when you pay peanuts, is quality and care, most of the time at least, no offence to the super-brains here. The HR bozos could not see any difference between "software engineer" and "software engineer" though one might be a 3.5GPA MS grad from Ulan Bator Madarssa, the top-ranked in IT, and a 35% Pass from Raju's Global Software Training and Typing Institute in Parukuttyppuram. Their mission was to Cut Cost.

Even at Boeing in 2004 they were trying this - and got some interesting comments from knowledgeable people on the wisdom of hiring engineers using HR mgrs used to hiring (never mind).

You know there is a shortage of tech workers when you interview for a position and the only people who show up are married Indian woman. And the top two choices reject your offer because they found a better opportunity within 2 days of the interview.

You are stuck in 2003. There was a dot com bubble. You would think 15 years after employing 35k DOOs companies would realize they are costing them more than 100k Americans. Well, guess not.

HR don't hire software engineers. I don't know where you got the idea HR hires software engineers.

US should stop pump priming its economy and drive these boom bust cycles to avoid the surge of h1s and then the mass lay offs.

You can find many Americans who are not good software engineers and drive you to frustration. Wives of asian immigrants who brought them from their native land, white folks who got their jobs because of their buddies or relatives. On an average Indian h1s are no worse than the rest of the software talent pool in USA.

Banks are one place who don't compromise on their pay and quality (they are an*l about it), yet you see plenty of H1s in those places.

The last few years, growth was primarily driven by tech companies like google, apple, face book and a host of other companies. They all have at most 40% of their head count as software engineers only a fraction of which are Indians. They are creating 60% of jobs for Americans. America cannot complain of foreigners stealing their jobs when all the growth companies in America get only a fraction of their revenue from USA.

America wanted globalization, they are getting globalization. The software situation is much better than America exporting factory jobs in return for cheap trinkets. Any loss/inconvenience to local software talent is balanced by benefiting other Americans through office jobs, other services jobs and manufacturing jobs when India uses the proceeds from software to import hardware.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 01 Feb 2017 23:16

Banks are one place who don't compromise on their pay and quality (they are an*l about it), yet you see plenty of H1s in those places.

My experience with TCS "techies" is from PeechaKaro Bank, maybe largest in the US. Their quality was atrocious and attitude even worse. I think they had paid off the top guy there and swayed hiring. I don't think they were H1s though, some other visa type.

I remember being up at 1am on a call to have this clown install my code and he confesses to me very scared that he is a Websphere Admin but has never seen a WebSphere console before.

Just he and I on the call. He was in Columbus, OH and I was elsewhere. What to do? My crazy boss will get on my back the next day. The install wasn't trivial but I had to instruct him remotely and blind without any Webex. On other installs, they would refuse to do anything that was not in the runbook. So basically we had to say click this click that and put screenshots for Vishwa and Bala to click and collect salary and bonus. Hack Thoo.

So dream on. I have seen the quality of these people who do some NIIT course and come in as "engineers". And people who graduated 2 years ago come with resumes claiming 6 years work experience. I have seen this and felt ashamed to tell the manage that it was fake because I would be dissing India/Indians, so I would just say that skills did not match.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 01 Feb 2017 23:30

hanumadu wrote:
UlanBatori wrote: Let me tell u a story, from back in 2003. Internet market crashed. Tens of thousands of US computer jobs vanished along with the companies that employed them.

But when the market recovered, the jobs had moved to ..... INDIA!!! And so, people who were making 100K could no longer find jobs above 35K. Why? Lack of "talent"? Work ethic? No. Because there were plenty of Indians happy to work for less than 35K even after all the fees etc were taken out. Did that magic formula for "cost-cutting" work? No, but it generated even more demand for Indian DOOs because the work being done was so full of errors that they needed orders of magnitude more cost to fix those. What you don't get when you pay peanuts, is quality and care, most of the time at least, no offence to the super-brains here. The HR bozos could not see any difference between "software engineer" and "software engineer" though one might be a 3.5GPA MS grad from Ulan Bator Madarssa, the top-ranked in IT, and a 35% Pass from Raju's Global Software Training and Typing Institute in Parukuttyppuram. Their mission was to Cut Cost.

Even at Boeing in 2004 they were trying this - and got some interesting comments from knowledgeable people on the wisdom of hiring engineers using HR mgrs used to hiring (never mind).
You know there is a shortage of tech workers when you interview for a position and the only people who show up are married Indian woman. And the top two choices reject your offer because they found a better opportunity within 2 days of the interview.

What does that mean?

You are stuck in 2003. There was a dot com bubble. You would think 15 years after employing 35k DOOs companies would realize they are costing them more than 100k Americans. Well, guess not.

HR don't hire software engineers. I don't know where you got the idea HR hires software engineers.

US should stop pump priming its economy and drive these boom bust cycles to avoid the surge of h1s and then the mass lay offs.

You can find many Americans who are not good software engineers and drive you to frustration. Wives of asian immigrants who brought them from their native land, white folks who got their jobs because of their buddies or relatives. On an average Indian h1s are no worse than the rest of the software talent pool in USA.

I agree on the average comment wrt H1s - see my comment in nukkadwa. But if the wives have done the same course then what's the issue? I know multiple - and taking asian in US way as mostly Chinese - 'wives' who are doing quality work. And the same goes for 'Indian wives'. I dont agree on this gender based comment - many of those H1s being dissed by Kjo for example are men (Vishwa for example).

And yes, the software engineers are hired through an interview process and then there is a review process. Contractors may be different... dunno

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Feb 2017 23:33

there is a point which is important - in the early days of the techie migrations - the guys who came were well educated and knew their stuff. with the rapid expansion more and more 2nd and 3rd tier guys started coming and the quality level dropped significantly. Nowadays when you interact with a Big desi software company, you have to filter through till you find the guys who actually know what they are doing - there are some, but rule of thumb is that the bigger the company the higher variability in quality

this is why the labour arbitrage game is over

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 01 Feb 2017 23:40

Spirited discussion happening here so let me just make a RaGa/MaryAntoinette comment here and escape, 'If they can't get H1, let them come in on O1'.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 01 Feb 2017 23:56

KJo wrote:
Banks are one place who don't compromise on their pay and quality (they are an*l about it), yet you see plenty of H1s in those places.

My experience with TCS "techies" is from PeechaKaro Bank, maybe largest in the US. Their quality was atrocious and attitude even worse. I think they had paid off the top guy there and swayed hiring. I don't think they were H1s though, some other visa type.

I remember being up at 1am on a call to have this clown install my code and he confesses to me very scared that he is a Websphere Admin but has never seen a WebSphere console before. Just he and I on the call. He was in Columbus, OH and I was elsewhere. What to do? My crazy boss will get on my back the next day. The install wasn't trivial but I had to instruct him remotely and blind without any Webex. On other installs, they would refuse to do anything that was not in the runbook. So basically we had to say click this click that and put screenshots for Vishwa and Bala to click and collect salary and bonus. Hack Thoo.

So dream on. I have seen the quality of these people who do some NIIT course and come in as "engineers".

I have seen worse American software engineers who couldn't even follow those instructions. The bar is set pretty low and its not by Indians. At least the Indian guy was up willing to listen to your instructions. My point was specifically about software not some admin job. How many American's are willing to be up in the middle of the night even though such jobs are better paid than industry average?

I have seen Americans who do not even do that NIIT course but are engineers here. I have seen some very ordinary Stanford and UCB undergraduates. I can only imagine how the rest of the work force is. You don't need to do a computer science degree to be a software "engineer". Many American software "engineers" don't.

The American software engineer might have to settle for 100k instead of 200k, but there will be many other Americans who will make 50k instead of 20k from companies that exist only because of the availability of foreign talent. Unfortunately its a package deal. If Trump can separate them, he can try. If it was possible, somebody would have already done that because its such a big electoral issue.

Its a choice America has to make and face the consequences good or bad. Hope Trump does what you want and you will have your high pay and job security and smart and wonderful colleagues.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 01 Feb 2017 23:58

Why we need to run Indians down when discussing US ?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 02 Feb 2017 00:03

Americans are running down Indians here.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 Feb 2017 00:08

Yayavar wrote:
hanumadu wrote:
You know there is a shortage of tech workers when you interview for a position and the only people who show up are married Indian woman. And the top two choices reject your offer because they found a better opportunity within 2 days of the interview.
What does that mean?

You are stuck in 2003. There was a dot com bubble. You would think 15 years after employing 35k DOOs companies would realize they are costing them more than 100k Americans. Well, guess not.

HR don't hire software engineers. I don't know where you got the idea HR hires software engineers.

US should stop pump priming its economy and drive these boom bust cycles to avoid the surge of h1s and then the mass lay offs.

You can find many Americans who are not good software engineers and drive you to frustration. Wives of asian immigrants who brought them from their native land, white folks who got their jobs because of their buddies or relatives. On an average Indian h1s are no worse than the rest of the software talent pool in USA.
I agree on the average comment wrt H1s - see my comment in nukkadwa. But if the wives have done the same course then what's the issue? I know multiple - and taking asian in US way as mostly Chinese - 'wives' who are doing quality work. And the same goes for 'Indian wives'. I dont agree on this gender based comment - many of those H1s being dissed by Kjo for example are men (Vishwa for example).

And yes, the software engineers are hired through an interview process and then there is a review process. Contractors may be different... dunno

I was not trying to demean the work done by women. What I meant to emphasize is many of them did not have the experience we were looking for and in some cases the skills. But yet they are the only ones available. I also included men in my comment above, so I don't know why you choose to high light women only.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 Feb 2017 00:10

VikasRaina wrote:Why we need to run Indians down when discussing US ?

Because old Indians perceive new Indians as a threat to their cushy jobs and high pay.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Feb 2017 00:12

some do, but others worry about the drop in quality standards

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 02 Feb 2017 00:17

All this discussion we have had and hanumadu, vikas and karthik still don't understand the main problem we are talking about...

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 Feb 2017 00:24

KJo wrote:All this discussion we have had and hanumadu, vikas and karthik still don't understand the main problem we are talking about...

I understand perfectly well.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Feb 2017 00:43

hanumadu wrote:I understand perfectly well.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 02 Feb 2017 00:43

Lalmohan wrote:some do, but others worry about the drop in quality standards

who died and made the earlier immigrants some sort of quality control managers (of later immigrants)?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Feb 2017 00:50

Re. T. Gabbard: Reintroducing the bipartisan Return to Prudent Banking Act today to reinstate Glass-Steagall

Says 2008 wiped out the net work of like 44% of Hispanic, around 40% of AA and 11% of Caucasian households. Says Goldman-Sachs and a few others control most American wealth.

Re: Reinstate Glas-Steagall:

Bernie supported this and Hillary opposed it! Remember she was always on the side of wall street.

Wall Street is being allowed to continue to gamble with American ppl's money. Banks "too big 2 fail" allowed to get even bigger.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Feb 2017 00:56

Oh, ATM! There is an unexpected side-benefit to becoming a fan of T. Gabbard.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 02 Feb 2017 01:14

i may be wrong but it sometimes reads like ... 'we got in, now shut the door'

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 Feb 2017 01:56

Lalmohan wrote:there is a point which is important - in the early days of the techie migrations - the guys who came were well educated and knew their stuff. with the rapid expansion more and more 2nd and 3rd tier guys started coming and the quality level dropped significantly. Nowadays when you interact with a Big desi software company, you have to filter through till you find the guys who actually know what they are doing - there are some, but rule of thumb is that the bigger the company the higher variability in quality

this is why the labour arbitrage game is over

But that's true with all companies not necessarily outsourcing companies. Any company that has a huge head count will have its share of less than bright people, especially if the growth has been rapid. The growth is largely fueled by multinationals, primarily american. So they have to share the blame.
America can crack down on illegal practices, exploitation but it's selfish to make it difficult for h1s or our outsourcing companies to operate in the US. Huge imbalances were created in India and the US in the past few years. Any drastic measure will have adverse impact on both. Any roll back has to be gradual.

I think the CEOs who sign the outsourcing deals are aware of the shrinking talent pool. Its either they still outsource or they don't grow or worse - die.
US/west has a declining population but their information technology needs are growing. You either slow down the pace of technology adaptation or find people where you can. Only there's no guarantee others will do the same and don't use the opportunity to get ahead of you.