Understanding US thread-III

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 02 Feb 2017 01:57

Iran has been put on notice by US. Next step sanctions on flimsy grounds. Make Israel great again follows (&Saudi in bracket).

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 02 Feb 2017 02:01

"A Third Of The U.S. Says Being Christian Is A Key Part Of Being American"
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a- ... -american/

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 02 Feb 2017 02:08

by Kjo
H1B people are a mixed bag, there are some/many brilliant ones and there are absolutely dumb ones. The brilliant ones do a lot of great things and we know some names. Then there are people in the middle who I think are the vast majority.

People with STEM background will be good with computers. A lot of people on H1b are the ones who after degree in humanities take some courses from private education institutes and then get a job eventually immigrate to USA.

saip · Post by **saip** » 02 Feb 2017 02:12

Yayavar wrote:i may be wrong but it sometimes reads like ... 'we got in, now shut the door'

Way, way back when reservation was not that common or almost non-existent, the only way you could into a crowded lower class compartment in a train is fighting with the people who are already inside. Then, once you are inside you joined with those in the compartment and fought with those outside. That used be known as railway compartment mentality. Just saying.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 02 Feb 2017 02:16

saip wrote:
Yayavar wrote:i may be wrong but it sometimes reads like ... 'we got in, now shut the door'
Way, way back when reservation was not that common or almost non-existent, the only way you could into a crowded lower class compartment in a train is fighting with the people who are already inside. Then, once you are inside you joined with those in the compartment and fought with those outside. That used be known as railway compartment mentality. Just saying.

Hey, I am all for fair competition.
But if you want to kick my stomach through unfair means, that is not right.

If one is not a US citizen, they cannot expect the US to do anything for them. They don't have any rights other than human rights and things like that.

When I complained about the crappy OCI process, this was the explanation given to me. Why are thr rules different now?

In any case, I don't think anyone has a problem with smart and worthy people coming here. It's the useless worthless types who I have a problem with who don't even deserve to be in ITVity and have ruined the profession for others. It's not just such types from India, I feel the same for others also but TCS/INFY types are flooding everywhere, not from other places.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 02 Feb 2017 02:32

When I complained about the crappy OCI process, this was the explanation given to me. Why are thr rules different now?

That was NOT the explanation given. Many and Suraj particularly took many turns explaining why it is still far more better than the processes advanced countries like massa has etc.

nobody ever said - well you are not an Indian, suck it up butter cup - as you are making it out now.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 02 Feb 2017 02:37

and if someone is not up to the mark the work will not be done and the person or company will be replaced eventually. A new equilibrium will form.
Not everything is because Nehru was seen hugging Edwina by one guy and now claimed witnessed by everybody

... or you had to guide someone through an install and now every new guy doesnt know his job.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Feb 2017 02:39

A_Gupta wrote:"A Third Of The U.S. Says Being Christian Is A Key Part Of Being American"
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a- ... -american/

Those must be the MUTU desis.

As the old story about JLN and JFK on the train ended:

Oh! That's His Excellency the Indian Ambassador To The USA

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 02 Feb 2017 02:58

^^UB are you for real?

disha · Post by **disha** » 02 Feb 2017 03:10

Atmavik wrote: What is the min salary to qualify for this?

Salary is a function of job or role., not the other way around. You qualify for the job and salary follows. But for pseudo-L1s both the job function and salary were abused.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 02 Feb 2017 03:19

disha wrote:

In ALL of what you said., you are offering the following wisdom:

1. That the attack on Indians/Hindu will only increase by both the EvanJihadis and the alt-left-commies
2. The heathen Hindus will be juxtaposed with crazy Trump and pointed out that Trump is a saint., and the Hindu and their leaders are thus evil.
3. Any anger towards Trump from the alt-left-commies will be directed to anybody from India who will be seen dealing with Trump in a positive way
3a. In the process the Indian/Hindu image will be tarnished.

The above are the warnings you issued will happen before Trump was elected and in a way you were rooting for HRC because you were of the opinion that the attacks on India/Hindu will be soft.

If you do not agree with my assessment of the above., please go back and read ALL of your *own* posts. Particularly the ones prior to the election. And if you still do not agree, then well we at-least "agree to disagree".

I do not agree with your assessment of the above.

Let us start with

in a way you were rooting for HRC because you were of the opinion that the attacks on India/Hindu will be soft.

Let me try and explain to you what my position was on the US elections, because apparently reading all of my posts does not seen to have helped.

Suppose you are on a State Transport bus journey. You have not eaten anything for 16 hours. Finally the bus stops at a small gaon in the middle of nowhere. There are exactly two choices of eateries here.

One of them is filthy. You know it well. You know that everyone who has ever eaten there gets an attack of dysentery or worse. However, you also know the exact problems with each dish they cook over there. You know, down to the decimal point, the exact proportion of E. coli, S. typhimerium, V. cholerae etc. to be found in each item on the menu of this place... rice, dal, chapati, vegetable, everything.

So if you eat in this place, you will surely suffer. You will suffer from both ends. BUT you know exactly what germs you will be ingesting, and you have a fair idea what quantity, what their rate of reproduction is, etc. So you can calculate the exact dosage and types of antibiotics to take, to prevent these germs from killing you. It will be painful for a while, uncomfortable for a longer while, but finally you will be OK.

That is the Clinton eatery.

The Trump eatery you have no idea about. The owner is a big talker with an impressive gift of the gab. He says all the right things about flavour etc. But you have, prima facie, no idea who is in the kitchen or what ingredients they are using. The only thing you do know is that a lot of guys who work there have this reputation: they do not wash their hands after going to the bathroom, but cross themselves and say Grace directly afterwards.

My position before the election was: since starving is not an option, I would prefer to eat at the Clinton eatery and take my antibiotics. Mr. Modi is charting a careful course for India, and the one thing we do not need is unpredictability. Little bit of loose motions, cough, fever, we can deal with IF we know to expect it.

It was not a question of "attacks on Hindus/India would be softer" but one of "we could predict the nature and sources of the attacks because we knew the exact machinery behind the attacks, and we could manage the frequency and impact of such attacks by putting this knowledge to use".

But that did not happen, so let us see. Paarkalaam.

Now to your interpretation of what I am saying AFTER the election (when we have already sat down at the Trump table and dug in, no going back now).

1. That the attack on Indians/Hindu will only increase by both the EvanJihadis and the alt-left-commies

Correct.

During the Democratic presidency of Obama, the Conservative EJs were busy pursuing their domestic agendas: against abortion, for prayer in schools, against gay marriage etc. The Social Justice EJs were equally busy battling against these agendas and pushing agendas of their own: immigration, BLM, LGBTQ etc.

This has to do with the fact that (a) US State Legislatures were overwhelmingly in Republican hands... so, EVEN with Dem Obama in the White House, Conservative EJs had the upper hand in local battles. (b) Federal Legislature, from 2010 onwards, was also Republican dominated... so the President couldn't really do much on the federal level without fighting fierce opposition in the legislature every step of the way.

During the Republican Trump presidency, Conservative EJs have everything they want. The Federal Executive and Legislature, plus several state legislatures, are in their pocket; soon the Judiciary (with the Supreme Court nomination) will be in their pocket as well. Nothing can stop them from enacting whatever they please. On the other hand, the Social Justice EJs are fighting a losing battle and they know it. They no longer have any hope of winning battles against Conservative EJ agendas at either the state (local) or federal level.

The change from a D to an R presidency has thus fundamentally altered the balance of power dynamic between the Conservative EJs and the Social Justice EJs.

To save their own relevance as "reformists", and their sources of funding, the Social Justice EJs will accept whatever olive branch the Conservative EJs offer to them. That olive branch will involve "retrenchment", i.e. retargeting their efforts and resources at foreign targets to pursue a "common minimum program" of converting the heathen.

There should be no doubt about this, because it is exactly what happened during the GW Bush presidency. Between 2002-2004, there was an increasing outcry amongst liberal Americans, including Social Justice EJs, regarding Bush's foreign (Iraq War, Guantanamo Bay) and domestic (Patriot Act etc.) policies.

At some point around 2004-5, the resistance against Bush appeared to "exhaust" itself. At the same time, "Human Rights" initiatives targeting foreign nations began to take off... including the USCIRF slander-campaign against Modi. This was no accident. It was a deliberate retargeting of anti-government activism towards foreign enemies of the US Government through propaganda and atrocity literature.

Retargeting anti-government/anti-establishment activism towards external enemies has been a policy of the US deep state ever since the "counter-cultural" left wing activism of the late 1960s was deemed an existential threat in review.

If you do not see this, then you have failed to achieve the purpose of this thread... Understanding the US... in a dimension that is directly and crucially involved with India's national security.

2. The heathen Hindus will be juxtaposed with crazy Trump and pointed out that Trump is a saint., and the Hindu and their leaders are thus evil.

Not necessarily. My example of the Scroll article, where such a blatant juxtaposition has occurred, is probably rare in its directness. Most of the time the retargeting will occur more subtly and away from public view.

However, that article was worth pointing out, because to achieve its placement amongst the Top Stories recommended by Google... for the search string "Muslim Ban", at the very date and location where huge numbers of American liberals are searching for "Muslim Ban"... was an impressive feat of SEO.

We will have to look much harder for evidence in most cases. But it will be there if sought.

3. Any anger towards Trump from the alt-left-commies will be directed to anybody from India who will be seen dealing with Trump in a positive way

Who do you mean by the "alt-left-commies"?

Indian JNU-rNDTV types? Or the "liberal" Social Justice EJs in America?

I have not used the above term, and I am not clear what it means, so I cannot agree or disagree with your characterization of my views using this term.

Trump is the President of the US, and the GOI has no option but to deal with him in as positive a way as possible. No matter how many gaalis we may get for that, or from whom. So it is irrelevant anyway.

3a. In the process the Indian/Hindu image will be tarnished.

Yes. To a greater extent than it was during the Obama administration.

It is very possible that the slandering of India could have been equally bad, or perhaps worse, during a Hillary Clinton administration. But thinking of that that is irrelevant now. The other dhaba is no longer an option. We are eating what is put in front of us, because we have no choice

Now here are my points:

1. You are overthinking., yes the attacks will be different but nonetheless atrocity story attacks were happening before on infidel hindus and India and will happen again.

Ohohohoho. Sorry, Disha-ji, for "overthinking". I am not used to this brave new world where the customary bandwidth for absorbing, processing, and disseminating thoughts is limited to a trite 140 characters or less. Or, where the term "RW"is tossed around as representing something inherently worthy of emulation when nobody in the Indic ranks can even begin to arrive at a consensus definition of what it means (one must, however, admire the conciseness of "RW" as a term with only 2 characters).

The point is not that atrocity literature was used to attack India before. The point is that India (and we, as her defenders in social media) must change the dynamic so that the efficiency of atrocity literature as a weapon against India is depleted. Atrocity literature will always be used to attack India, what are we going to DO about it?

Item number one in that effort is to understand WHERE the current tranche of atrocity literature is coming from... who is developing it... how they are deploying it... and what its content will be.

Understanding these things will not be achieved through "underthinking", I am afraid.

2. Too much credit is being given to the 'Omidyar network'. Yes it is there. Yes it is a tool. And Yes it will be used and continually will be used.

"Too much" relative to what?
What exactly do you mean by "credit"?
And if the Omidyar network will continually be used, what can be done either to stop it from being used, or to blunt its efficacy as a tool when it is used?
What can be done about other sources of atrocity literature, and worse measures besides?

3. You are definitely under informed., to the point that you do not even know the play of words 'Alt-Dabba'. Check out the word 'altaba'.
3a. There is a reason why Y! became alt-dabba.

You might think I am under informed. I might think that I conserve energy by not chasing after every shiny new piece of clickbait the internet dangles before me.

I am sorry that I missed your pun. But you, on the other hand, missed my entire point. If Yahoo could syndicate a Scroll dot In story to its US distribution... who else could, and did? And why? Your response "who reads [Yahoo] anyway" is as myopic as they come.

The very fact that US outlets are being incentivized to pipe anti-Hindu, anti-Modi propaganda to American audiences at this particular time... and SEO efforts are being made to elevate the visibility of this propaganda... is something unprecedented.

Just to note., there is something called the 'American Experience'., this is the 'American Experience' that has propelled Trump to the presidentship and this is the American Experience which will come forth where atrocity literature is negated. The average joe on the street is less threatened by the Hindu/Indian than the beards since the joe (or jane) understands that Hindu/Indians are better integrated into the American Mainstream than the average beard!

Would you care to share your American Experience, Disha-ji? Because mine... spanning nearly 21 years... does not in any way validate what you assert here.

The fact is, average joe and jane don't care for anything different from themselves. It is positively daft to assume that because they are (rightfully) anti-Islamic, they cannot in one hot second turn (wrongfully) anti-Hindu. Their outrage is not driven by their miraculous adoption of an "RW"

ethical framework in alignment with dharma. It is driven, first and last, by antipathy towards whatever is different from themselves... non-white, non-Christian, non-English-speaking being the main determinants of difference. That is what Trump has seized upon to propel himself to the presidentship... the perversity of an essentially tamasic society.

To seek allies amongst this horde of average joes and janes is, in fact, even more delusional than what Pakis do. At least the Pakis know clearly what side they are on... and in their practice of Taqqiya, they do not kid themselves that the aam Amreekan has any positive feelings toward them.

Already the American MSM has lost its moorings., and it is the least trusted on any issues. In fact when Musk tweets that it is better to read the source rather than the interpretation of the news as opinion and 100s of his followers do it - it just negates the MSM big time. Trust lost is not easily regained. Particularly among the binary thinking American popln.

Boss, MSM is the easiest thing to rebrand. This is something which desi Yindoo opponents of the pseudosecular Indian MSM still haven't understood. One Tarun Tejpal or Barkha Dutt gone from the air means another Zakka Jacob or Rana Ayyub worming its way into the limelight. We keep attacking the facades, and exhausting both our energy and our credibility in the process. Meanwhile the institutions behind the MSM persist, and continuously reinvent the channels through which their propaganda is disseminated.

One of the PRIMARY motives behind NaMo's DeMo, in fact, was in recognition of this. Going after specific media houses (NDTV, CNN-IBN, whatever) is a fool's errand... like a direct attack on Raktabija. For every one shut down ten more would spring up, and the chorus of "intolerance", "fascism" etc. would only grow worse. To be effective, the interests behind these media houses had to be hit where it would hurt them. But this is going OT.

So coming to perception about ALL your posts., yes - we get it. We do get it that attacks will increase and will be more on the sly.

What is the solution you offer?

The first step to any solution is to recognize the threat. Do not downplay it.

The second step is to identify the key players behind the threat, understand how they work together, and recognize how the wider context (US deep state imperatives, current US/Indian/global political climate, economic strengths and weaknesses of all the parties involved, etc.) affect the capacity of these players to work together... positively and negatively.

Once we get a good start on the second step, and acquire the information we need, the forthcoming steps (pathways to effective resolution in our favour) will suggest themselves. I am confident that they will. Nothing stays the same forever, after all. We just have to be positioned to predict the change and take maximum advantage of it when it occurs.

But actually, step zero would be to divest ourselves promptly of any sense of loyalty/sympathy/fellow-feeling towards EITHER side of the American political spectrum.

That is the number one problem I perceive on this thread... even in BRF's small online community of Indians who are capable of thinking strategically and motivated to act in our mother country's interests, a completely misplaced sense of identification with Trump/his government/his followers has severely distorted our capacity to read the situation in the US, and blinded us to the full spectrum of its implications. If we stumble into this fight blind we will lose everything for sure.

It would be extremely useful to remember that both the dhabas at the ST bus stand are serving poison onlee.

disha · Post by **disha** » 02 Feb 2017 03:22

Yayavar wrote:i may be wrong but it sometimes reads like ... 'we got in, now shut the door'

Nope., that is the way you are thinking because that is the only way you have been thought to think!

Joe Loffgren bill has one good element: Glide path to GC is smoothened. People have been roiled because their GCs took more than a decade. If they have gone the route of hiring coyote (look it up) that would have been better I guess!

Another good element: Paying proper wages to H1b. H1b were underpaid and once in GC queue their pay never went up. Stuck there forever. So asking companies to pay H1b better is not a bad thing.

Third good element: Reserve some (20%?) H1b for startups. This is where the money is for the new comers.

I think 130k has been kept as a bargaining chip. However that 130k is sometimes seen as poison pill to kill the H1b program itself.

So yes there has been widespread support for Joe Loffgren and at the same time there is support for Trumpet to clean up the abusers. It needs to be done. But it was Obama who demonized the H1bs. Obama in his 8 years did nothing, so to say that the support to clean up the visa abusers tantamount to "we got in, now shut the door" is just plain silly.

Of course it would be best if the H1b (L1 incl) are indexed to the American economy. And country specific quotas in H1b (chile, taiwan and s'gapore) is rationalized.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Feb 2017 03:28

yes its true with all companies. but brand India abroad is all about the big IT boys
the whizz kids in investment banking (if that still exists!) and management consulting are now thin on the ground
so most americans (and europeans) see the iT guys - and as the volume has grown, the average has reduced - its a natural process

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 Feb 2017 03:44

KJo wrote:
saip wrote:
Way, way back when reservation was not that common or almost non-existent, the only way you could into a crowded lower class compartment in a train is fighting with the people who are already inside. Then, once you are inside you joined with those in the compartment and fought with those outside. That used be known as railway compartment mentality. Just saying.
Hey, I am all for fair competition.
But if you want to kick my stomach through unfair means, that is not right.

If one is not a US citizen, they cannot expect the US to do anything for them. They don't have any rights other than human rights and things like that.

When I complained about the crappy OCI process, this was the explanation given to me. Why are thr rules different now?

In any case, I don't think anyone has a problem with smart and worthy people coming here. It's the useless worthless types who I have a problem with who don't even deserve to be in ITVity and have ruined the profession for others. It's not just such types from India, I feel the same for others also but TCS/INFY types are flooding everywhere, not from other places.

You also seem to have a problem with outsourcing. What's your excuse for it?

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 02 Feb 2017 03:54

hanumadu wrote:
VikasRaina wrote:Why we need to run Indians down when discussing US ?
Because old Indians perceive new Indians as a threat to their cushy jobs and high pay.

I don't have much of a dog in this fight but I think that's a bit unfair.

I've seen plenty of nepotism where I live, the most blatant example is that practiced by the Jews, who almost have an official sanction to do so. But everybody favors their own, the muslims are perhaps the next most 'in your face' about it.

Indians are a variable breed. I see the worst of them are the North Indians who have a typical crab mentality and attitude. The most helpful to other Indians are the Gujjus, Bongs, and TamBrams, in that order. I am not using these terms in a pejorative sense at all.

Regardless, most Indians I know will still welcome other Indians into the US, heck the more the merrier. Personally, I am a huge believer in humanity without borders but that's too utopian at this point in history.

There is however a certain discomfort the 'old Indian' feels when the 'new Indian' makes a fool of himself or underperforms. That is all.

We have all, unwittingly become ambassadors for our race, religion and country and are constantly on our toes so to speak. We try to outdo the locals at their own jobs, it has allowed us to hold our heads up in a very competitive environment.

Am I worried about an FOB Indian coming in to take my job for less pay? Absolutely not. Nobody has appointed me the Godfather of every Indian who comes to the US and yet there is a collective sense of pride when Indians here do very well and inevitably some pain when they do not.

There is no conspiracy by Old Indians to bar New Indians, quite the opposite in fact. We would love this place to become another Singapore.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 Feb 2017 03:58

Primus wrote:
hanumadu wrote:
Because old Indians perceive new Indians as a threat to their cushy jobs and high pay.
I don't have much of a dog in this fight but I think that's a bit unfair.

....

There is no conspiracy by Old Indians to bar New Indians, quite the opposite in fact. We would love this place to become another Singapore.

I did not mean all Indians, if this helps.

Melwyn · Post by **Melwyn** » 02 Feb 2017 04:00

^^@primus Care to explain what you mean by "I see the worst of them are the North Indians who have a typical crab mentality and attitude."?

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 02 Feb 2017 04:06

disha wrote:
Yayavar wrote:i may be wrong but it sometimes reads like ... 'we got in, now shut the door'
Nope., that is the way you are thinking because that is the only way you have been thought to think!

Nope! you are thinking that I'm thinking like that since you have been taught to think that others have been taught to think and only you are original

There is a certain trend in some statements above implying the 'quality' of desis coming has gone down. That is what I've commented on and so have others.
And frankly I've seen the tasks and resumes - real and created - in 1990s, and later. Same -same onlee. In the end you keep what works for your team and let the others go - gora or kala or bhura or pila or lal or whatever.

Joe Loffgren bill has one good element: Glide path to GC is smoothened. People have been roiled because their GCs took more than a decade. If they have gone the route of hiring coyote (look it up) that would have been better I guess!

the path has nothing to do with quality of the work done by or asked off the said beneficiary.
And the bill has nothing to do with the reason that some of us commented - it was related to what was put above so picturesquely by saip - 'railway compartment mentality'.

Another good element: Paying proper wages to H1b. H1b were underpaid and once in GC queue their pay never went up. Stuck there forever. So asking companies to pay H1b better is not a bad thing.

Sure ..no complaints.

Third good element: Reserve some (20%?) H1b for startups. This is where the money is for the new comers.

I'm sure new coyote methods are being thought up right now.

I think 130k has been kept as a bargaining chip. However that 130k is sometimes seen as poison pill to kill the H1b program itself.

So yes there has been widespread support for Joe Loffgren and at the same time there is support for Trumpet to clean up the abusers. It needs to be done. But it was Obama who demonized the H1bs. Obama in his 8 years did nothing, so to say that the support to clean up the visa abusers tantamount to "we got in, now shut the door" is just plain silly.

No, you are correlating wrong elements. Clean up as much as you want. But to claim the quality of workers is not good is crap. CICS patchers in late 80's or early 90's were not more brilliant or worse than y2k testers were no better or worse than whatever people are lamenting about.

That people have gamed the system and it needs fixing is a valid point but different point.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 02 Feb 2017 04:27

amitkv wrote:^^@primus Care to explain what you mean by "I see the worst of them are the North Indians who have a typical crab mentality and attitude."?

In my experience, the Hindi/Punjabi-speaking (with the exception of Sikhs) expatriate is the one who is the most jealous of the success of his fellow immigrant and the least likely to help the newcomer. Sure, he will welcome you to his house and party with you because he has great difficulty socializing with people who do not speak Hindi, but the moment you ask for help in finding a job, or furthering your career, he will make excuses and more than likely be a barrier to your progress than a facilitator. First hand experience in my life, multiple times.

I've had more business sent my way from Pakis than from North Indians, they would rather call local Americans.

BTW I am as 'Chapathi' as you can get (if you catch my drift).

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 02 Feb 2017 04:28

hanumadu wrote:
Primus wrote:
I don't have much of a dog in this fight but I think that's a bit unfair.

....

There is no conspiracy by Old Indians to bar New Indians, quite the opposite in fact. We would love this place to become another Singapore.
I did not mean all Indians, if this helps.

Got it, thank you. I think I know where your ire was directed.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Feb 2017 04:33

ranjan.rao wrote:^^UB are you for real?

Ah! A proper question, thanks 4 pooching. No, just visiting via hologram to check on my buddies who were last seen hovering over Area 51.

But surely, how can one not view the long, impassioned rants here and keep one's sanity except by

?
And this is the one that forced me to break discipline and post:

1/3 of Americans who responded to an idiotic survey say that being Christian is a key part of being an American.

.
Oh! HOW SHOCKING! HOW DARE THEY? First, I am trying to imagine an American who will respond to a survey. OK, now out of that 100, how many could spell "Christian" I wonder. Only desis, who make it a point to win Spelling Bees with such words as
pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis. Most red-blooded, straight-whisky-swilling, beer-bellied liberated "American" wimmens would say "Huh!? New mole hwhat nyaw?"

Of the 6 left, what would you have expected them to say? 2 may have been commies. 2 probably Islamic. The other two should have said:

No, Zoroastrian?

BUT, mind you, all Surveys published by CNN are Statistically Significant. So one has to take this with great seriousness. The 1/3 of Americans who said the US ought to be a Christian country, also correspond to the 1/3 of NASA employees who are desis, per the same sorts of surveys. Desis at NASA are in general MUTU or they cannot survive. I mean, who in their right mind would elevate a returning astronaut on their shoulders? Their space suits are full of pakistan and vomit and biss and the poor souls haven't had a bath (nowadays with the ISS) for 6 months. The ISIS types infesting Deir Ez Zor are models of hospital-level antiseptic cleanliness by comparison

Hence my conclusion: the 1/3 must be MUTU desis. Q.E.D.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 Feb 2017 04:48

Primus wrote:
hanumadu wrote:
I did not mean all Indians, if this helps.
Got it, thank you. I think I know where your ire was directed.

No ire against any body sir.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 02 Feb 2017 04:49

^^^^ All good points, except that it was fivethirtyeight.com and Pew Research - not CNN.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Feb 2017 06:33

JMT: This Spicer dude needs to find another job. It's not his fault, but his face looks totally stressed-out, and he comes across with all the charm of a Nazi General reporting on the Leningrad siege. To lie effectively and spew "Alternative Facts" smoothly, the WHOTUS needs an alum of DT's Miss Universe contests.

Raygun Reagan didn't really NEED a spokesliar. He was a master at it.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 02 Feb 2017 07:05

http://time.com/4657474/donald-trump-en ... d-hombres/

No one knows what they have spoken yet Time wrote this. In any event with DT there is entertainment all around.

devaraya · Post by **devaraya** » 02 Feb 2017 07:29

Rudradev wrote:
disha wrote:

In ALL of what you said., you are offering the following wisdom:

1. That the attack on Indians/Hindu will only increase by both the EvanJihadis and the alt-left-commies
2. The heathen Hindus will be juxtaposed with crazy Trump and pointed out that Trump is a saint., and the Hindu and their leaders are thus evil.
3. Any anger towards Trump from the alt-left-commies will be directed to anybody from India who will be seen dealing with Trump in a positive way
3a. In the process the Indian/Hindu image will be tarnished.

The above are the warnings you issued will happen before Trump was elected and in a way you were rooting for HRC because you were of the opinion that the attacks on India/Hindu will be soft.

If you do not agree with my assessment of the above., please go back and read ALL of your *own* posts. Particularly the ones prior to the election. And if you still do not agree, then well we at-least "agree to disagree".
I do not agree with your assessment of the above.

Let us start with
in a way you were rooting for HRC because you were of the opinion that the attacks on India/Hindu will be soft.
Let me try and explain to you what my position was on the US elections, because apparently reading all of my posts does not seen to have helped.

Suppose you are on a State Transport bus journey. You have not eaten anything for 16 hours. Finally the bus stops at a small gaon in the middle of nowhere. There are exactly two choices of eateries here.

One of them is filthy. You know it well. You know that everyone who has ever eaten there gets an attack of dysentery or worse. However, you also know the exact problems with each dish they cook over there. You know, down to the decimal point, the exact proportion of E. coli, S. typhimerium, V. cholerae etc. to be found in each item on the menu of this place... rice, dal, chapati, vegetable, everything.

So if you eat in this place, you will surely suffer. You will suffer from both ends. BUT you know exactly what germs you will be ingesting, and you have a fair idea what quantity, what their rate of reproduction is, etc. So you can calculate the exact dosage and types of antibiotics to take, to prevent these germs from killing you. It will be painful for a while, uncomfortable for a longer while, but finally you will be OK.

That is the Clinton eatery.

The Trump eatery you have no idea about. The owner is a big talker with an impressive gift of the gab. He says all the right things about flavour etc. But you have, prima facie, no idea who is in the kitchen or what ingredients they are using. The only thing you do know is that a lot of guys who work there have this reputation: they do not wash their hands after going to the bathroom, but cross themselves and say Grace directly afterwards.

My position before the election was: since starving is not an option, I would prefer to eat at the Clinton eatery and take my antibiotics. Mr. Modi is charting a careful course for India, and the one thing we do not need is unpredictability. Little bit of loose motions, cough, fever, we can deal with IF we know to expect it.

It was not a question of "attacks on Hindus/India would be softer" but one of "we could predict the nature and sources of the attacks because we knew the exact machinery behind the attacks, and we could manage the frequency and impact of such attacks by putting this knowledge to use".

But that did not happen, so let us see. Paarkalaam.

Now to your interpretation of what I am saying AFTER the election (when we have already sat down at the Trump table and dug in, no going back now).
1. That the attack on Indians/Hindu will only increase by both the EvanJihadis and the alt-left-commies
Correct.

During the Democratic presidency of Obama, the Conservative EJs were busy pursuing their domestic agendas: against abortion, for prayer in schools, against gay marriage etc. The Social Justice EJs were equally busy battling against these agendas and pushing agendas of their own: immigration, BLM, LGBTQ etc.

This has to do with the fact that (a) US State Legislatures were overwhelmingly in Republican hands... so, EVEN with Dem Obama in the White House, Conservative EJs had the upper hand in local battles. (b) Federal Legislature, from 2010 onwards, was also Republican dominated... so the President couldn't really do much on the federal level without fighting fierce opposition in the legislature every step of the way.

During the Republican Trump presidency, Conservative EJs have everything they want. The Federal Executive and Legislature, plus several state legislatures, are in their pocket; soon the Judiciary (with the Supreme Court nomination) will be in their pocket as well. Nothing can stop them from enacting whatever they please. On the other hand, the Social Justice EJs are fighting a losing battle and they know it. They no longer have any hope of winning battles against Conservative EJ agendas at either the state (local) or federal level.

The change from a D to an R presidency has thus fundamentally altered the balance of power dynamic between the Conservative EJs and the Social Justice EJs.

To save their own relevance as "reformists", and their sources of funding, the Social Justice EJs will accept whatever olive branch the Conservative EJs offer to them. That olive branch will involve "retrenchment", i.e. retargeting their efforts and resources at foreign targets to pursue a "common minimum program" of converting the heathen.

There should be no doubt about this, because it is exactly what happened during the GW Bush presidency. Between 2002-2004, there was an increasing outcry amongst liberal Americans, including Social Justice EJs, regarding Bush's foreign (Iraq War, Guantanamo Bay) and domestic (Patriot Act etc.) policies.

At some point around 2004-5, the resistance against Bush appeared to "exhaust" itself. At the same time, "Human Rights" initiatives targeting foreign nations began to take off... including the USCIRF slander-campaign against Modi. This was no accident. It was a deliberate retargeting of anti-government activism towards foreign enemies of the US Government through propaganda and atrocity literature.

Retargeting anti-government/anti-establishment activism towards external enemies has been a policy of the US deep state ever since the "counter-cultural" left wing activism of the late 1960s was deemed an existential threat in review.

If you do not see this, then you have failed to achieve the purpose of this thread... Understanding the US... in a dimension that is directly and crucially involved with India's national security. { synergies/alignment between both could lead to very aggressive campaign(mutli-dimensional) against Indic Interests}

2. The heathen Hindus will be juxtaposed with crazy Trump and pointed out that Trump is a saint., and the Hindu and their leaders are thus evil.
Not necessarily. My example of the Scroll article, where such a blatant juxtaposition has occurred, is probably rare in its directness. Most of the time the retargeting will occur more subtly and away from public view.

However, that article was worth pointing out, because to achieve its placement amongst the Top Stories recommended by Google... for the search string "Muslim Ban", at the very date and location where huge numbers of American liberals are searching for "Muslim Ban"... was an impressive feat of SEO.

We will have to look much harder for evidence in most cases. But it will be there if sought.

3. Any anger towards Trump from the alt-left-commies will be directed to anybody from India who will be seen dealing with Trump in a positive way
Who do you mean by the "alt-left-commies"?

Indian JNU-rNDTV types? Or the "liberal" Social Justice EJs in America?

I have not used the above term, and I am not clear what it means, so I cannot agree or disagree with your characterization of my views using this term.

Trump is the President of the US, and the GOI has no option but to deal with him in as positive a way as possible. No matter how many gaalis we may get for that, or from whom. So it is irrelevant anyway.

3a. In the process the Indian/Hindu image will be tarnished.
Yes. To a greater extent than it was during the Obama administration.

It is very possible that the slandering of India could have been equally bad, or perhaps worse, during a Hillary Clinton administration. But thinking of that that is irrelevant now. The other dhaba is no longer an option. We are eating what is put in front of us, because we have no choice

Now here are my points:

1. You are overthinking., yes the attacks will be different but nonetheless atrocity story attacks were happening before on infidel hindus and India and will happen again.
Ohohohoho. Sorry, Disha-ji, for "overthinking". I am not used to this brave new world where the customary bandwidth for absorbing, processing, and disseminating thoughts is limited to a trite 140 characters or less. Or, where the term "RW"is tossed around as representing something inherently worthy of emulation when nobody in the Indic ranks can even begin to arrive at a consensus definition of what it means (one must, however, admire the conciseness of "RW" as a term with only 2 characters).

The point is not that atrocity literature was used to attack India before. The point is that India (and we, as her defenders in social media) must change the dynamic so that the efficiency of atrocity literature as a weapon against India is depleted. Atrocity literature will always be used to attack India, what are we going to DO about it?

Item number one in that effort is to understand WHERE the current tranche of atrocity literature is coming from... who is developing it... how they are deploying it... and what its content will be.

Understanding these things will not be achieved through "underthinking", I am afraid.

2. Too much credit is being given to the 'Omidyar network'. Yes it is there. Yes it is a tool. And Yes it will be used and continually will be used.
"Too much" relative to what?
What exactly do you mean by "credit"?
And if the Omidyar network will continually be used, what can be done either to stop it from being used, or to blunt its efficacy as a tool when it is used?
What can be done about other sources of atrocity literature, and worse measures besides?

3. You are definitely under informed., to the point that you do not even know the play of words 'Alt-Dabba'. Check out the word 'altaba'.
3a. There is a reason why Y! became alt-dabba.
You might think I am under informed. I might think that I conserve energy by not chasing after every shiny new piece of clickbait the internet dangles before me.

I am sorry that I missed your pun. But you, on the other hand, missed my entire point. If Yahoo could syndicate a Scroll dot In story to its US distribution... who else could, and did? And why? Your response "who reads [Yahoo] anyway" is as myopic as they come.

The very fact that US outlets are being incentivized to pipe anti-Hindu, anti-Modi propaganda to American audiences at this particular time... and SEO efforts are being made to elevate the visibility of this propaganda... is something unprecedented.
{ the same SEO optimization techniques are being/will be employed on any Anti-Indic meme's, the question is, are we prepared/have capabilities to at-least match such techniques for our POV?}

Just to note., there is something called the 'American Experience'., this is the 'American Experience' that has propelled Trump to the presidentship and this is the American Experience which will come forth where atrocity literature is negated. The average joe on the street is less threatened by the Hindu/Indian than the beards since the joe (or jane) understands that Hindu/Indians are better integrated into the American Mainstream than the average beard!
Would you care to share your American Experience, Disha-ji? Because mine... spanning nearly 21 years... does not in any way validate what you assert here.

The fact is, average joe and jane don't care for anything different from themselves. It is positively daft to assume that because they are (rightfully) anti-Islamic, they cannot in one hot second turn (wrongfully) anti-Hindu. Their outrage is not driven by their miraculous adoption of an "RW" ethical framework in alignment with dharma. It is driven, first and last, by antipathy towards whatever is different from themselves... non-white, non-Christian, non-English-speaking being the main determinants of difference. That is what Trump has seized upon to propel himself to the presidentship... the perversity of an essentially tamasic society.

To seek allies amongst this horde of average joes and janes is, in fact, even more delusional than what Pakis do. At least the Pakis know clearly what side they are on... and in their practice of Taqqiya, they do not kid themselves that the aam Amreekan has any positive feelings toward them.
Already the American MSM has lost its moorings., and it is the least trusted on any issues. In fact when Musk tweets that it is better to read the source rather than the interpretation of the news as opinion and 100s of his followers do it - it just negates the MSM big time. Trust lost is not easily regained. Particularly among the binary thinking American popln.
Boss, MSM is the easiest thing to rebrand. This is something which desi Yindoo opponents of the pseudosecular Indian MSM still haven't understood. One Tarun Tejpal or Barkha Dutt gone from the air means another Zakka Jacob or Rana Ayyub worming its way into the limelight. We keep attacking the facades, and exhausting both our energy and our credibility in the process. Meanwhile the institutions behind the MSM persist, and continuously reinvent the channels through which their propaganda is disseminated.

One of the PRIMARY motives behind NaMo's DeMo, in fact, was in recognition of this. Going after specific media houses (NDTV, CNN-IBN, whatever) is a fool's errand... like a direct attack on Raktabija. For every one shut down ten more would spring up, and the chorus of "intolerance", "fascism" etc. would only grow worse. To be effective, the interests behind these media houses had to be hit where it would hurt them. { probability of public disclosure of results/effectiveness would be minimal } But this is going OT.

So coming to perception about ALL your posts., yes - we get it. We do get it that attacks will increase and will be more on the sly.

What is the solution you offer?
{

The first step to any solution is to recognize the threat. Do not downplay it.

The second step is to identify the key players behind the threat, understand how they work together, and recognize how the wider context (US deep state imperatives, current US/Indian/global political climate, economic strengths and weaknesses of all the parties involved, etc.) affect the capacity of these players to work together... positively and negatively. { This is the most challenging aspect,as there ranks are increasing both in terms of committed narrator's & sponsors with deep pockets, sophistication in messaging and especially key players invisibility. It's a long game, takes perseverance to connect the dot's and to deploy actionable counter measures}

Once we get a good start on the second step, and acquire the information we need, the forthcoming steps (pathways to effective resolution in our favour) will suggest themselves. I am confident that they will. Nothing stays the same forever, after all. We just have to be positioned to predict the change and take maximum advantage of it when it occurs.

But actually, step zero would be to divest ourselves promptly of any sense of loyalty/sympathy/fellow-feeling towards EITHER side of the American political spectrum. { +108}

That is the number one problem I perceive on this thread... even in BRF's small online community of Indians who are capable of thinking strategically and motivated to act in our mother country's interests, a completely misplaced sense of identification with Trump/his government/his followers has severely distorted our capacity to read the situation in the US, and blinded us to the full spectrum of its implications. If we stumble into this fight blind we will lose everything for sure.{ }

It would be extremely useful to remember that both the dhabas at the ST bus stand are serving poison onlee.

{+108}

+108

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Feb 2017 07:32

Why are the posts on this thread getting to be so short?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Feb 2017 08:27

Short post. Long title.

'THIS WAS THE WORST CALL BY FAR' Donald Trump ‘blasts Australian PM during phone call before hanging up 35 minutes early’

DONALD Trump reportedly blasted Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull during their conversation on the weekend, saying “this was the worst call by far”.

And, PM Modi got an invite!!

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 02 Feb 2017 08:34

UlanBatori wrote: Raygun Reagan didn't really NEED a spokesliar. He was a master at it.

Why do you think they worship him?

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 02 Feb 2017 08:37

NRao wrote:Short post. Long title.

'THIS WAS THE WORST CALL BY FAR' Donald Trump ‘blasts Australian PM during phone call before hanging up 35 minutes early’

DONALD Trump reportedly blasted Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull during their conversation on the weekend, saying “this was the worst call by far”.

And, PM Modi got an invite!!

Sledging the Aussies.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Feb 2017 09:14

Are nauru and manus going under due to global warming?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Feb 2017 09:21

Ndtv

Washington: A hijab-clad woman in the US was allegedly harassed and abused at a cafe by a man who asked her "do you have a green card", the latest in a slew of incidents in which immigrants have been targeted following Donald Trump's 'visa ban' on seven Muslim-majority nations.

A young Muslim-American woman filmed the moment she was harassed and called a b***h after a man took photos of her in an Atlanta coffee shop.

Asma Elhuni, 39, noticed the man, news outlets believe to be Rob Koehler, walk into Joe's Coffee Shop and start taking pictures of her as she worked on her laptop.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Feb 2017 09:26

Video here http://m.ndtv.com/world-news/hijab-clad ... herstories

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 02 Feb 2017 09:48

I am surprised with the sheet size of entertainment DT and red/greens providing to all of us. What we now need is a good Tv war which is going to be around the corner with Iran firing something-something and Khan e Khan starting to personally write the reality show script. By the way, does reality shows has scripts? I do not know. Coming back Frog and cat eaters will also be jumping into having their production soon.

With the only people facing problems will be entertainment industry fellows. Who is see their movies when we can sit at home and watch wars live and drink beer. No wonder the Hollywood fellows are bissed off with DT. He made them without an audience.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 02 Feb 2017 10:06

White House leaking like a sieve:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t ... SKBN15G5RX
Reuters reports:

U.S. military officials told Reuters that Trump approved his first covert counterterrorism operation without sufficient intelligence, ground support or adequate backup preparations.

As a result, three officials said, the attacking SEAL team found itself dropping onto a reinforced al Qaeda base defended by landmines, snipers, and a larger than expected contingent of heavily armed Islamist extremists.

The Pentagon directed queries about the officials' characterization of the raid to U.S. Central Command. The latter pointed only to its statement on Wednesday.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 02 Feb 2017 10:12

A Quebec mosque shooting truther movement has already begun.
https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/a-qu ... dy-started

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Feb 2017 10:57

A_Gupta wrote:White House leaking like a sieve:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t ... SKBN15G5RX
Reuters reports:
U.S. military officials told Reuters that Trump approved his first covert counterterrorism operation without sufficient intelligence, ground support or adequate backup preparations.

As a result, three officials said, the attacking SEAL team found itself dropping onto a reinforced al Qaeda base defended by landmines, snipers, and a larger than expected contingent of heavily armed Islamist extremists.

The Pentagon directed queries about the officials' characterization of the raid to U.S. Central Command. The latter pointed only to its statement on Wednesday.

the raid was planned and approved by Obama and delayed into the Trump tenure because the pentagon wanted a moonless night. once he signed off it was job of theater commander at the end of drone link to decide if the raid was given away due to drone spotting (it was) and whether to push ahead or not . expecting POTUS to dictate the nitty gritty of air support etc is asking too much

a typical potus would not be able to tell a F-15C from a E. or a prowlah from a growlah.

despite huge prep, *hit does happen in sf ops. see eagle claw which was planned as the finest hour and most complex op of the delta force. israelis built up their rep against smallish weak opposition in entebbe vs the seasoned warriors the american socom has to deal with. these AQ elites easily pack the best comms, personal protection , small arms, late model RPGs , ATGMs, CJI drones and are as good as any veteran infantry unit in a regular army. they are hard to panic and roll over just by flashing the socom id card.

#fakenews
#demfail

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 02 Feb 2017 12:15

.dup.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 02 Feb 2017 12:18

Primus: ACM -Associaton for Computing Machinery - the primary and preeminent professional association has abdicated its responsibility of licensing. They are also heavily theory oriented. Similarly IEEE TC6 (t CG committee 6) IIRC is the one that should be dealing with programmers. But they too are theory pasand. So in CS, there is large difference between theoretical people and the programmers. 99% of the programmers' work is learning a set of libraries which are most like a new language within another language with set phrases and idioms. Onc one masters thos idiots and phrases, one can write applications at a very rapid pace.

As for theory, it has become very arcane and abstract and large. For example Prof. Scott Aronson, the person who is considered to be the top expert on structural complexity remembers, by his own admission on his blog, only a handful of the hundreds of complexity classes, their inclusions in each other, problems which separate one class from the other and so on. For that purpose he and a colleague maintain a website called the complexity zoo. It is very beautiful, mathematically speaking but has no practical applications as of now. Only a few unsolved problems are useful if they are resolved one way or the other. Some classes will be useful if and when there is a physical realization of a quantum computer.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 02 Feb 2017 12:55

Third World style riots break out in People's Republic of Berkeley

So it didn't take much for the hoity toity First World to become the Third World

Molotov cocktails thrown at police, buildings smashed, set on fire. Luckily nobody I know there got hurt and some escaped just as the protests were heating up.