China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

[Austin]

At LIMA 2017 China Displayed AIP based S26T submarine , Thailand will buy 3 Submarine of this class





http://quwa.org/2017/03/28/thai-prime-m ... nes-china/

[chola]

At LIMA 2017 China Displayed AIP based S26T submarine , Thailand will buy 3 Submarine of this class





http://quwa.org/2017/03/28/thai-prime-m ... nes-china/

The Pakis will be getting eight of those and a related variant.

According to the PRC crowd at PDF, their Type 075 LHD just kicked off. This along with the Type 001A STOBAR to be launched next month, the four Type 055 100+ VLS DDGs being built simultaneously and their first Type 002 CATOBAR being assembled in Shanghai.

We're looking at the second coming of Bismark's fleet. It'll probably end the same way for the chinis as it did for the krauts.

[Austin]

China's CSOC showcases a new 4,000-tonne frigate

http://www.janes.com/article/69073/chin ... ne-frigate

Chinese state-owned shipbuilder China Shipbuilding and Offshore International Company (CSOC) revealed technical specifications of a new frigate design it is showcasing at the LIMA 2017 exhibition in Langkawi.

In an interview with Jane's, a CSOC engineer disclosed that the "new ship is a derivative of the Jiangkai II class of frigates, but features a renewed superstructure".

According to specifications confirmed by the company, the vessel is slightly larger than the Jiangkai II, featuring an overall length of 135 m, a beam of 16 m, a draught of 4.4 m, and a displacement of around 3,850 tonne.

The platform is powered by four sets of 16PA6STC engines in a CODAD configuration, driving two propeller shafts for a top speed of up to 26 kt. It has an endurance of 21 days, and standard range of 4,000 nautical miles at cruising speed of 18 kt.

Where the innovation stands, however, is in the armament suite and sensors. Weapons aboard comprise a single-barrel 76 mm main naval guns, topped up by two six-barrel Type 730A 30 mm guns for short-range self defence.

"Unlike in other versions [of frigates displayed by CSOC at defence shows], the two 30 mm guns are no longer mounted on the main bridge, but rather amid-ship, closer to the [24-cells] surface-to-air missile [SAM] launcher."

The ship's foredeck still hosts a 32-cell vertical launching system (VLS) firing the HHQ-16 (40 km of range), and there are two quadruple launchers of the C-802 surface-to-surface missile (SSM) mounted amid-ship.

Commenting on the sensors, the engineer added that "the above-water sensor suite will include a phased-array radar mounted in an integrated mast. The ship will also mount an over the horizon [OTH] radar comparable to the [active/passive] SLR66".

The frigate's anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities will be provided by a hull-mounted sonar and torpedo tubes.

[Liu]

At LIMA 2017 China Displayed AIP based S26T submarine , Thailand will buy 3 Submarine of this class





http://quwa.org/2017/03/28/thai-prime-m ... nes-china/

The Pakis will be getting eight of those and a related variant.

According to the PRC crowd at PDF, their Type 075 LHD just kicked off. This along with the Type 001A STOBAR to be launched next month, the four Type 055 100+ VLS DDGs being built simultaneously and their first Type 002 CATOBAR being assembled in Shanghai.

We're looking at the second coming of Bismark's fleet. It'll probably end the same way for the chinis as it did for the krauts.

wel,
many chinese experts insist that one AC group should have two ACs at least if the AC group really prepare for wars.

and they insist that china should have two twin~AC groups at least, one guarding chinese coast, one for chinese oversea interest.

[shiv]

Turkmenistan-China pipeline dead?
http://thediplomat.com/2017/03/the-cent ... line-dead/

The Central Asia-China Gas Pipeline Network: Line D(ead)

The line’s collapse represents yet another unsuccessful attempt at regional integration.

To those following energy dynamics in Central Asia, this month’s announcement that construction of Line D — the most significant chunk of the Central Asia-China gas network — would be indefinitely suspended wasn’t necessarily a surprise. The pipeline, which would have carried some 30 bcm of Turkmen gas to Chinese markets, had been running on fumes for over a year, with construction having already stalled in both Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. The recent announcement, then, was simple confirmation of a reality a long time coming.

The fact that Line D’s cancellation had become largely inevitable, however, didn’t lessen the blow throughout the region. As The Diplomat’s Paolo Sorbello laid out, the cancellation may well impose “unbearable pressure” on a reeling Turkmenistan, already withering under low gas prices and a decreasing consumer base. Turkmenistan has watched dreams of its TAPI and Trans-Caspian pipelines wilt under geopolitical realities; now, its most substantive pipeline to its only substantial consumer has just faltered.

[shiv]

cross post

Chinese infrastructure in Tibet opposite the Tawang Area of Arunachal Pradesh
https://youtu.be/azQlfT9Iv4s

[Guddu]

Thanks again, nice video. As an amateur, it would appear that China will have a hard time taking Tawang, they can be detected and neutralized far before they ever reach Tawang...or am I misunderstanding your videos.

[shiv]

Thanks again, nice video. As an amateur, it would appear that China will have a hard time taking Tawang, they can be detected and neutralized far before they ever reach Tawang...or am I misunderstanding your videos.

Thank YOU.

I think, given the current state of intelligence and preparedness - the Chinese are not going to find it easy to walk in like they did last time - and it is only going to get harder as connectivity improves.

I was not actually trying to make any judgement about success or failure of Chinese attempts - but I was just fascinated by the way the Chinese have maintained a robust military presence in this area compared to some other areas - such as far east Walong/Lohit river valley area and the Siang river valley.

However I do think, and I sat as much in the video I think any serious Chinese moves in this region will require the use of air power to disrupt their plans. I have not mentioned artillery - but there is much within artillery range. Howevere the use of ir power may mean that the Chinese may respond using air power themselves and they would use nearby airfields like Xigaze and Lhasa. This would mean that we will have to disable those airfields. These are the things that we must be prepared to do right from the word go if the Chinese try any funny stuff.

[DavidD]

Good stuff shiv, I've been saying for years now that a Chinese invasion across the Tibetan plateau and the Himalayas is a ridiculous idea. It's simply not feasible. Maybe a short surprise attack, but it's impossible to sustain any offensive.

[Karthik S]

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/04/ch ... -mass.html

China has built a nuclear submarine mass production superfactory

China's Bohai Shipyard has built a new large-scale plant to mass produce nuclear submarines.

Western production lines for the most part can only build one submarine at a time, and only the US is capable of building two submarines simultaneously, but China is now capable of building four submarines at one time.

China already has at least four type 094/094A ballistic missile submarines and at least five Type 093/093G attack submarines, so it is speculated that the new facility is to build the successor third-generation classes of Type 096 ballistic missile submarines and Type 095 attack submarines. The new submarines will be built using modular fabrication techniques. The projection is made that Chinese nuclear submarine production will double its rate within two to three years.

China currently has about three submarine production lines and can build 5 to 6 submarines at one time. This would mean in three years China could be building ten to twelve submarines at one time.


Type 094 submarine

The Type 096 submarine is a SSBN (nuclear ballistic missile submarine) being developed for the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy Submarine Force. Official specifications are unknown. The Type 096 may carry 24 SLBMs, double the number carried by its predecessor, the Type 094. According to analysts, it could also feature a hull similar to Western SSBNs. As of January 2017, the Type 096 has yet to enter service.

The Type 095 submarine is a proposed class of third generation nuclear-powered attack submarines for the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) of China.

It is anticipated that Type 095 submarines will have a substantially reduced acoustic signature, within an improved hull type and pump jet propulsion system. Compared to the Type 093, the Type 095 will have a more advanced nuclear reactor, VLS tubes and greater number of advanced sensors such as new active/passive flank array sonar and low and high frequency towed sonar array. Additionally, it is also speculated that Type 095 submarines may act as a potential undersea escort for any future PLAN aircraft carrier task forces.

[brar_w]

I guess they are talking about assembling them. With modular sections you can have a much larger number under construction at any given time. Of the 13 Virginia class submarines currently on order by the USN 6 are currently under construction. The USN is currently funding a combined SSN/SSBN annual delivery rate capacity increase to 3+1 (funding infrastructure for 3 deliveries a year and leaving margin for 1 additional vessel) which would be in place by the time the first Columbia class vessel is delivered.

[brar_w]

US Congressional Research Service report on Chinese Naval Modernization :

http://docdro.id/dVkY2Cm

[Karthik S]

I guess they are talking about assembling them. With modular sections you can have a much larger number under construction at any given time. Of the 13 Virginia class submarines currently on order by the USN 6 are currently under construction. The USN is currently funding a combined SSN/SSBN annual delivery rate capacity increase to 3+1 (funding infrastructure for 3 deliveries a year and leaving margin for 1 additional vessel) which would be in place by the time the first Columbia class vessel is delivered.

Will it be too much of a dream to think we will make on similar scale one day. Considering the necessity of our SSNs in IOR.

[Gagan]

The Type 095 and 096 are the subs that the chinese wanted.
The 095 with a pumpjet propulser, inclined torpedo tubes and much improved quitening is quite state of the art. Not much is known about its corrosponding SSBN the 096, but one can expect similar improvements over the 094

[Austin]

Thailand buys ten Chinese tanks VT4

April 5th, 4:24
As reported by the American edition of "DefenseNews" referring to the statement Press Secretary of the Government of Thailand, the Thai Cabinet approved the purchase of the Thai army has ten main tank VT4 (IMT-3000) in the Chinese foreign trade association Norinco. This purchase is allocated $ 58 million.

Previously, in April 2016 Thailand signed an agreement with Norinco for the purchase of the first 28 tanks VT4 Cost of 5.3 million dollars per unit, at the same time pointed out that the purchase of these tanks will be continued.

[shiv]

I think we should buy a few of these too - simply to see what the Chinese are putting in and to shoot at them with Helinas to see what happens

[chola]

I think we should buy a few of these too - simply to see what the Chinese are putting in and to shoot at them with Helinas to see what happens

I bet you it is possible too.

They are making warships for Malaysia which is one of the countries with claims AGAINST the PRC in the SCS.

Many moons ago, when I first followed the LCA, they actually asked to partner in the Tejas.

They act like a bunch of money grubbing merchants rather than a power serious about warfare (and thereby limiting sales to only allies in case you end up fighting against your own stuff.)

[chaitanya]

Cross posting:

The Secret Chinese Airstrip Emerging In Maldives

[shiv]

another PLAN LPD rolls off the assembly line

https://sputniknews.com/military/201704 ... -pla-navy/

Interesting development. Need to see how much mileage the Chinese can get out of possible bases in Sri Lanka and the Maldives, apart from Gawadar.

Basing of Chinese navy ships in Sri Lanka and the Maldives would be a hostile act against India and air strikes to take out those ports would have to be kept on the table as an option in case things get hot.

If China really wants war with India - it is going to put pressure on sea lanes as well as on the land border

But what is this news doing in the INDIAN navy thread - it should be on the China Mil thread.

[Gagan]

Not just Gawadar(Nehru-ji refusing to accept this gift from Oman), Maldives, but also, Hambantota, Colombo (port city), Great Cocos Island (Nehru-ji's gift to Burma in the 1950s), Sittwe. With all these bases, China hopes to distract the Indian Navy and Airforce, so that its ability to project power in the south china sea is decreased.
At the very least they expect these bases to absorb the major impact of Indian retaliation, giving some respite to the mainland.

India has to build a large triservices command dedicated only to taking on the chinese in the south china sea.

[kmkraoind]

Not just Gawadar(Nehru-ji refusing to accept this gift from Oman), Maldives, but also, Hambantota, Colombo (port city), Great Cocos Island (Nehru-ji's gift to Burma in the 1950s), Sittwe. With all these bases, China hopes to distract the Indian Navy and Airforce, so that its ability to project power in the south china sea is decreased.
At the very least they expect these bases to absorb the major impact of Indian retaliation, giving some respite to the mainland.

India has to build a large triservices command dedicated only to taking on the chinese in the south china sea.

Even without these Chinese bases, India's threat perception will not change. But these bases posses major threat to American Diego Garcia and to their ME bases. Our media pimps, cleverly says Chinese bases main target is India, thus weakening our position to bargain with US.

Instead spin that, "these Chinese bases poses threat to US ME plans, and threaten Japan's energy security" and if they want India's help to counter China, let them come with table what they want to offer.

[Austin]

China began to build a giant helicopter Carrier
https://rg.ru/2017/04/07/kitaj-nachal-s ... nosec.html

Shanghai Zhonghua Shipbuilding Company shipyard began construction of a huge amphibious assault helicopter carrier, says South China Morning Post , citing sources in the Chinese Navy. The ship is scheduled to enter service in 2020 and used to patrol in the East China and South China seas.

Helicopter Type 075 with a displacement of 40,000 tons will be one of the world's largest ships of this type. Its length is 250 meters, width - 30, on the deck and in the hangar can accommodate 30 helicopters of various types. For comparison - the largest in the class of the American Wasp amphibious type ships have a displacement of 40.5 tons and can carry up to 46 helicopters. Displacement French helicopter Mistral 21,3 thousand tons.

Type 075 can reach speeds up to 23 knots. Like the Wasp, will provide Chinese ship dock bay and the ability to change the draft to issue landing craft. Other details of the project are unknown.

Recall the last few years China has been actively engaged in strengthening its navy. April 23 - Day of the Navy of China, - planned launching of a second aircraft carrier, a modernized version of a Soviet heavy aircraft carrying cruiser Project 1143 "Merlin." The third aircraft carrier ship Celestial build on his own project. New frigates and corvettes are also created.

[NRao]

Not just Gawadar(Nehru-ji refusing to accept this gift from Oman), Maldives, but also, Hambantota, Colombo (port city), Great Cocos Island (Nehru-ji's gift to Burma in the 1950s), Sittwe. With all these bases, China hopes to distract the Indian Navy and Airforce, so that its ability to project power in the south china sea is decreased.
At the very least they expect these bases to absorb the major impact of Indian retaliation, giving some respite to the mainland.

India has to build a large triservices command dedicated only to taking on the chinese in the south china sea.

Even without these Chinese bases, India's threat perception will not change. But these bases posses major threat to American Diego Garcia and to their ME bases. Our media pimps, cleverly says Chinese bases main target is India, thus weakening our position to bargain with US.

Instead spin that, "these Chinese bases poses threat to US ME plans, and threaten Japan's energy security" and if they want India's help to counter China, let them come with table what they want to offer.

The US has moved to the Indo-Pacific, The Pivot. The IOR is left in the hands of others. IN is expected to have an overlapping responsibility of IOR and Indo-Pacific.

But as one can see, the game is played by both sides.

For the tiny nations around India it is more of an economic (and perhaps bribe) decision. China provides shark loans and ensnared them. Look at Pakistan. SL. BD. Myanmar. And now the Maldives.

[Gagan]

Type 071 LPD


Type 075

[chola]

Even without these Chinese bases, India's threat perception will not change. But these bases posses major threat to American Diego Garcia and to their ME bases. Our media pimps, cleverly says Chinese bases main target is India, thus weakening our position to bargain with US.

Instead spin that, "these Chinese bases poses threat to US ME plans, and threaten Japan's energy security" and if they want India's help to counter China, let them come with table what they want to offer.

The US has moved to the Indo-Pacific, The Pivot. The IOR is left in the hands of others. IN is expected to have an overlapping responsibility of IOR and Indo-Pacific.

But as one can see, the game is played by both sides.

For the tiny nations around India it is more of an economic (and perhaps bribe) decision. China provides shark loans and ensnared them. Look at Pakistan. SL. BD. Myanmar. And now the Maldives.

Unkil is not leaving the IOR in the hands of others. In fact, it is moving into the IOR with greater resources.

That new repair contract with Reliance for the 7th Fleet? It means they will be operating even more in IOR waters. The "pivot" is not from the Indian Ocean to the Pacific. It is from the US West Coast and Europe to the Indo-Pacific.

The 7th's HQ is in Japan. Its prime targets are Russia and China so traditionally its forces congregate east of Malacca. But the 7th's operational area includes the IOR east of the Persian Gulf. If the Chinese move into the Indian Ocean, the 7th will shift more there.

And so will the other two US Fleets: the Fifth in the Middle East and Persian Gulf and the Sixth in the south west region of the Indian Ocean. So three US fleets can conceivably congregate in the IOR (the Persian Gulf, just west of India is always a major concentration of USN ships) as well as major US bases in Bahrain (5th Fleet HQ), Djibouti and Diego Garcia.

No, the USN is not leaving the IOR.

[Singha]

Taiwan has 2 ancient dutch subs and is moving around from eu capital to capital with a begging bowl for tech pieces for its local sub ssk as none will sell them. Tokyo has also rejected any tech for subs. Neither will russia.

If they were less arrogant and more smart would approach india for a jv on the p75i thing...

Lpd lph progs are no concern of purs but we need to watch their sub radar asbm and sam projects very carefully

[chola]

Type 071 LPD


Type 075

One thing about the chinis is they make fantastic CGI and Photoshops of their upcoming equipment. If there is one thing where their IT wallahs beat ours hands-down it is Photoshopping their ships and planes. Where the hell are our artists and artistically-inclined fanbois? I want to see drawings/paintings of our upcoming LPD/LHDs!

[DavidD]

The 071 isn't upcoming, and that CG is poorly done and out of proportion.

[NRao]

The US has moved to the Indo-Pacific, The Pivot. The IOR is left in the hands of others. IN is expected to have an overlapping responsibility of IOR and Indo-Pacific.

But as one can see, the game is played by both sides.

For the tiny nations around India it is more of an economic (and perhaps bribe) decision. China provides shark loans and ensnared them. Look at Pakistan. SL. BD. Myanmar. And now the Maldives.

Unkil is not leaving the IOR in the hands of others. In fact, it is moving into the IOR with greater resources.

That new repair contract with Reliance for the 7th Fleet? It means they will be operating even more in IOR waters. The "pivot" is not from the Indian Ocean to the Pacific. It is from the US West Coast and Europe to the Indo-Pacific.

The 7th's HQ is in Japan. Its prime targets are Russia and China so traditionally its forces congregate east of Malacca. But the 7th's operational area includes the IOR east of the Persian Gulf. If the Chinese move into the Indian Ocean, the 7th will shift more there.

And so will the other two US Fleets: the Fifth in the Middle East and Persian Gulf and the Sixth in the south west region of the Indian Ocean. So three US fleets can conceivably congregate in the IOR (the Persian Gulf, just west of India is always a major concentration of USN ships) as well as major US bases in Bahrain (5th Fleet HQ), Djibouti and Diego Garcia.

No, the USN is not leaving the IOR.

Chola ji,

1) The 7th Fleet is not leaving the IOR. Though it is somewhat reducing its workload in the region.
2) The Pivot (better to call it with its other name "Rebalance") meant the reduction of assets in other Fleets and increase of assets in the 7th. You should see a reduction in the 5th Fleet based in Bahrain. In fact Bahrain has been screaming murder since 2011. And, if you follow the pay scales, they WERE a wee bit lower in the 5th and that much higher in the 7th - for similar positions
3) The "heart of the 7th" is around East and South CS. That is their focus (with China, Russia, NK and ISIL as ther adversaries) and not IOR. IOR falls under their responsibility, not focus.

A) The work that Reliance gets is bread crumbs. The 7th has better facilities in Japan and Singapore - they have had them for decades. What the Indian facilities provides is teh time savings to travel to Singapore to get a problem fixed (for the 7th that is). Relaince is earning around $50 mil a year, that is estimated to g to $300 mil a year. True that is a good jump -%age wise, but hardly a big chunk of the pie. BTW, Modi pushed for that pie for some time now
A true indicator of how well Reliance is doing would be the 5th and 6th Fleets send their boats to be worked on, not the 7th Fleet

There is more to this story, including our own Amb Hailey making noise about toning down Indo-Pak.

IIRC, currently 60% of USN assets have been assigned to PACCOM, which is essentially the 7th Fleet. It is also one of the reasons why the USN is feeding In with locations of Chinese subs in the IOR - something that no other than the Adm Harry Harris let out of the bag.

BTW, there are two interesting (unrelated) games being played - one in the US and the other within India. One trying to boost the IN and the other trying to reduce the effects of the IN.

[chola]

NRao sir, if USN ships are now using Reliance facilities it means they are in Indian waters. If their only focus are the East and South CS then they would never need to go further West than Singapore.

If and when war breaks out against the PRC (which I do not think will happen unless the US can get the chinis backed into a corner and something stupid -- read my post in the Vikrant thread) then the ENTIRE Indo-Pacific is a battle ground fir the 7th. Nothing will be left only to others but others are encouraged to contribute.

Again, if a Sino-US war happens any chini breakout to the IOR (near impossible to begin with) would be met not only by forces of the 7th but the 6th and the 5th as well.

[Austin]

China’s military and growing political power

http://voxeu.org/article/mismeasuring-c ... y-spending

[chola]

China’s military and growing political power

http://voxeu.org/article/mismeasuring-c ... y-spending

Pretty much means that racing with the PRC in production is a fool's errand. It is a first-rate industrial power with a third rate military.

Rather alarming premise that the PRC is currently using two percent of its GDP and can more than double to the US's five to take its spending to near parity with the US's.

They are already blowing the doors with insane production numbers with this current budget. Stay pat and letting them just build and build means they would simply bury you with numbers.

This is the quandrary the US face in the SCS. Over time, the chini industrial complex will simply pump the region so full of warships, subs and aircraft on man-made islands that control is fait accompli.

The fix is to make the chini actually fight with their third rate military. Peace means acquiescing to chini pre-dominance in its near seas.

[Liu]

China’s military and growing political power

http://voxeu.org/article/mismeasuring-c ... y-spending

Pretty much means that racing with the PRC in production is a fool's errand. It is a first-rate industrial power with a third rate military.

Rather alarming premise that the PRC is currently using two percent of its GDP and can more than double to the US's five to take its spending to near parity with the US's.

They are already blowing the doors with insane production numbers with this current budget. Stay pat and letting them just build and build means they would simply bury you with numbers.

This is the quandrary the US face in the SCS. Over time, the chini industrial complex will simply pump the region so full of warships, subs and aircraft on man-made islands that control is fait accompli.

The fix is to make the chini actually fight with their third rate military. Peace means acquiescing to chini pre-dominance in its near seas.

the low cost of chinese industry section means china industry can pruduce more weapons that USA's ,with the same defence expenditure.

so,USA has no chance to win a quantity race with china.

if USA can not keep its tech edge on china( now china seems to catch up rapidly),USA would be in a hopeless stuation .

[shiv]

USA has already built 13 copies of Liaoning. That is how many carriers the US has.

[chola]

Pretty much means that racing with the PRC in production is a fool's errand. It is a first-rate industrial power with a third rate military.

Rather alarming premise that the PRC is currently using two percent of its GDP and can more than double to the US's five to take its spending to near parity with the US's.

They are already blowing the doors with insane production numbers with this current budget. Stay pat and letting them just build and build means they would simply bury you with numbers.

This is the quandrary the US face in the SCS. Over time, the chini industrial complex will simply pump the region so full of warships, subs and aircraft on man-made islands that control is fait accompli.

The fix is to make the chini actually fight with their third rate military. Peace means acquiescing to chini pre-dominance in its near seas.

the low cost of chinese industry section means china industry can pruduce more weapons that USA's ,with the same defence expenditure.

so,USA has no chance to win a quantity race with china.

if USA can not keep its tech edge on china( now china seems to catch up rapidly),USA would be in a hopeless stuation .

The cost is also the function of infrastructure and the chinks actually went and set up an insane infrastructure in building shit so it is not necessary or desirable to out compete someone using half the world's steel.

Rather than wait until the PRC can build enough shit to cover the Indo-Pacific, you go on the offensive with your own strength which kinetic firepower and a base of experience a thousand times what China has now.

The American pivot is designed to pressure a fight and then it would be game over for China. Once war is in motion then everything built by China in the last three decades will be gone within a week. And that includes its infrastructure since the American plan involves strike up and down the Chinese coasts.

At that point, you will hope that China collapses completely and absolutely so that the Americans came come in and rebuild you to their image like Japan, Taiwan and South Korea.

If not, China will be bombed back to North Korea level and then kept there for decades by naval blockade. The trade you needed to build up that infrastructure the first time will no longer be there.

So the question is: Will you be able take the American military waving a red flag right on your borders?

Will you take their pissing and shitting on your face? Will you be their faggot as they proverbially bend you over in your house and fvck China in its ass?

You know, if you can take this sodomy and just build and build and build you would win. But taking and eating American shit on your own doorstep means you will have no manhood, no pride. No face.

I think the young nationalist chinis might not be able to take it.

To take being fvcked in the arse by the American pivot. Around Hainan. In the Taiwan Strait. Off your fake islands.

And then they will lash out when the US recognizes Taiwan and declare her an independent state in front of your eyes.

And with that, what could have been the greatest industrial power in the modern world, one that once used up half the world's steel and cement, is gone in a flash of American kinetics.

[Liu]

the low cost of chinese industry section means china industry can pruduce more weapons that USA's ,with the same defence expenditure.

so,USA has no chance to win a quantity race with china.

if USA can not keep its tech edge on china( now china seems to catch up rapidly),USA would be in a hopeless stuation .

The cost is also the function of infrastructure and the chinks actually went and set up an insane infrastructure in building shit so it is not necessary or desirable to out compete someone using half the world's steel.

Rather than wait until the PRC can build enough shit to cover the Indo-Pacific, you go on the offensive with your own strength which kinetic firepower and a base of experience a thousand times what China has now.

The American pivot is designed to pressure a fight and then it would be game over for China. Once war is in motion then everything built by China in the last three decades will be gone within a week. And that includes its infrastructure since the American plan involves strike up and down the Chinese coasts.

At that point, you will hope that China collapses completely and absolutely so that the Americans came come in and rebuild you to their image like Japan, Taiwan and South Korea.

If not, China will be bombed back to North Korea level and then kept there for decades by naval blockade. The trade you needed to build up that infrastructure the first time will no longer be there.

So the question is: Will you be able take the American military waving a red flag right on your borders?

Will you take their pissing and shitting on your face? Will you be their faggot as they proverbially bend you over in your house and fvck China in its ass?

You know, if you can take this sodomy and just build and build and build you would win. But taking and eating American shit on your own doorstep means you will have no manhood, no pride. No face.

I think the young nationalist chinis might not be able to take it.

To take being fvcked in the arse by the American pivot. Around Hainan. In the Taiwan Strait. Off your fake islands.

And then they will lash out when the US recognizes Taiwan and declare her an independent state in front of your eyes.

And with that, what could have been the greatest industrial power in the modern world, one that once used up half the world's steel and cement, is gone in a flash of American kinetics.

hehe,
1.according to your criterion,

In the past 200 yeas,not only china ,but also Germany,France india and manycountries ( perhaps almost all countries except the biggest boss like british empire and USA) have been fvcked so many times or made eat shit.

of course, to chinese lucky,less and less country can do this with china,for chinese work hard to develope its country


2. Chinese have enough endurance,otherwise it won't be the civilztion surviving longest on the earth.
as you see, other longest civilization( ancient engypt,indua,Mesopotamia) all disappeared, and their history/scripts have to be memeried or explained by others.
hower, china is still occupied by the offsprings of the oracle~users 4000years ago.

[chetak]

Taiwan has 2 ancient dutch subs and is moving around from eu capital to capital with a begging bowl for tech pieces for its local sub ssk as none will sell them. Tokyo has also rejected any tech for subs. Neither will russia.

If they were less arrogant and more smart would approach india for a jv on the p75i thing...

Lpd lph progs are no concern of purs but we need to watch their sub radar asbm and sam projects very carefully

If we need to do this we cannot get into new build and transfer.

We need to quickly & quietly train crews and transfer two existing subs in one fell swoop as a fait accompli before the hans react.

the hans have a new carrier commissioning shortly and another new build coming up very quickly.

[ranjan.rao]

USA has already built 13 copies of Liaoning. That is how many carriers the US has.

Copies!! That ways I am copy of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Shiv saar, liaoning is a rust bucket that does not sail beyond indo china sea. US Carriers sail the globe as they wish. I am sure you know this.

[chetak]

USA has already built 13 copies of Liaoning. That is how many carriers the US has.

Copies!! That ways I am copy of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Shiv saar, liaoning is a rust bucket that does not sail beyond indo china sea. US Carriers sail the globe as they wish. I am sure you know this.

the hans just need to cover their energy supply chain and routes in the IOR for some time to come along with the undisputed dominance of the SC sea region and the straits.

This area also covers a good deal of their markets.

[shiv]

USA has already built 13 copies of Liaoning. That is how many carriers the US has.

Copies!! That ways I am copy of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Shiv saar, liaoning is a rust bucket that does not sail beyond indo china sea. US Carriers sail the globe as they wish. I am sure you know this.

Blasphemy! Not only are all US carriers copies of Liaoning - the F-35 is an out and out copy of the J-20.